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Title: Pentagon may ease ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’
Source:
Boston Globe
URL Source: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w ... ease_dont_ask_dont_tell_rules/
Published: Feb 2, 2010
Author: Bryan Bender
Post Date: 2010-02-02 03:39:23 by scrapper2
Keywords: dumbos needed to fight O, Dim voters step right up
Views: 218
Comments: 18
WASHINGTON - Pentagon officials are expected to announce today that they will significantly relax enforcement of the ban on gays serving openly in the military, according to sources inside and outside the military who have been briefed on the plan. The move, independent of Congress, comes a week after President Obama called on lawmakers to repeal the controversial “don’t ask, don’t tell’’ law. Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are expected to announce at least two specific policy shifts: No longer will a “third party,’’ such as a spouse or informant outside the military, be able to prompt investigations of service members by saying they are gay; and only generals and admirals will be authorized to decide whether someone should be discharged for being gay. Such decisions are now often made lower in the chain of command. By barring third-party testimony from initiating investigations of service members’ sexual orientation, the Pentagon could cut down on the “witch hunts’’ that gay rights advocates say have resulted in the ouster of soldiers who have followed the policy by keeping their private lives private. Meanwhile, requiring more-senior officers to review proposed discharges would probably mean that fewer discharge cases - only those in which soldiers have flagrantly violated the policy - would be brought forward, according to specialists. While expected to generate criticism in Congress and among conservative groups, the revisions could accelerate an evolving change in attitudes at the Pentagon. Already, the number of gays and lesbians expelled from the military is dropping; last year’s total was the lowest on record, plunging by a third, and specialists said the new policies will drive those rates even lower. “The executive action taken . . . could be seismic,’’ said Aaron Belkin, director of the Palm Center, a think tank at the University of California, Santa Barbara, that has long advocated for repeal of the gay ban. “Don’t ask, don’t tell has rested on the belief that the presence of openly gay service members is always bad for the military.’’ The new approach, he added, “would mean a shift in the military’s focus toward keeping gay troops, reflecting the military’s belief that they are as essential as their heterosexual peers.’’ The latest figures on discharges, obtained by the Globe yesterday, show that in fiscal year 2009, 428 service members were kicked out of the military under the terms of the 1993 so-called “don’t ask, don’t tell’’ law, which requires gay military members to keep their sexual orientation secret or risk expulsion. The number of discharges last year was the lowest since the Pentagon began tabulating the annual data in 1996. The peak number of expulsions was 1,227 in 2001. Some believe the lower discharge figures demonstrate a shift in philosophy among many commanding officers, who may now consider soldiers’ sexual orientation irrelevant, as long as they do their jobs. “I think there is a pragmatic approach out in the field,’’ said Rudy deLeon, who served as undersecretary of defense for personnel in the Clinton administration. “The key element is whether this man or woman is doing the job and supporting me, rather than are they gay.’’ He likened the broader acceptance of gays in the ranks to the integration of blacks by presidential order in 1948. Initial resistance from some white officers melted away several years later during the Korean War, he said, when it became clear that blacks already serving in the military were more prepared to fight than fresh recruits. “The second issue,’’ deLeon added, “is there is a generational divide. For younger persons, this is not as much of an issue.’’ Still, any moves to limit gay discharges or repeal the law are certain to spark a vigorous fight with opponents of allowing gays to serve openly, including influential members of Congress in both parties who have said in recent days that they oppose Obama’s calls for repealing the ban because they think it could harm military discipline in the midst of two wars. Senator John McCain, a Republican of Arizona and senior member of the Armed Services Committee, has expressed opposition to changing the current policy and is expected to raise those concerns when Gates and Mullen appear before the committee today - the first testimony on the policy by high-ranking Pentagon officials in 17 years. McCain’s office did not respond to a request for comment yesterday. Meanwhile, Representative Ike Skelton, the Missouri Democrat who chairs the House Armed Services Committee, which also has jurisdiction over the issue, has likewise said he is not prepared to back a repeal. The “don’t ask, don’t tell’’ law was passed as a compromise after President Bill Clinton’s proposal to lift the ban on gays in the military in early 1993 backfired. Top officers and members of Congress resisted and polls showed a majority of Americans did not support the move. Since then a growing number of military officers have said they believe that the policy, meant to preserve good order and discipline, actually undercut the military code of honor by forcing people to lie. A number of conservative groups, however, are stepping up their efforts to fight a repeal, arguing that openly gay service members would undercut the warrior creed. Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council and a retired Marine Corps officer, said “the timing of the president’s call in the midst of two wars shows that he is willing to jeopardize our nation’s security to advance the agenda of the radical homosexual lobby.’’ The policy changes to be announced today are considered a first step in what Gates has called creating a more humane treatment for gay service members. It comes as the Obama administration lobbies Congress to overturn the law, which has led to the discharge of an estimated 13,000 troops over the past 16 years. Today’s expected announcement would not be the first time the Pentagon has taken steps to limit the discharge of gays. For example, prior to the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the Pentagon temporarily halted the gay discharge process, according to a forthcoming study published by the Air University at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama. “Scholarly evidence shows that the ban on service by openly gay personnel is unlikely to impair military effectiveness or harm recruiting, retention, or unit cohesion,’’ according to the report. “Yet questions remain as to how best to execute and manage the transition from exclusion to inclusion of openly gay personnel in a way that takes into consideration the concerns and sensitivities of the military community.’’ DeLeon, for one, believes that the concerns are manageable. “If we can manage the wedge politics, I think this problem is resolvable so that Americans who want to serve can serve, so that the readiness of the armed forces is protected and enhanced.’’
Poster Comment: Obama voters need to suffer the consequences. On stage right we have gay folks who don't want to live a lie. Raise your hands who want to come out of the closet and be counted and be sent to the front lines of your Messiah's new war front - Iran. See you around...some day...maybe...march on...
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#1. To: scrapper2 (#0)
If gays want to fight and die for zion, please let'em.
With a queer in the White House I am just sooooooo surprised. The NWO wants to use the U.S. Military up and destroy it. That, I am convinced, is why they want to rotate as many soldiers through the Depleted Uranium Dust Clouds as possible. The resulting disabilities and shortened life spans makes them less of a danger to their takeover plans. It is ghoulish and I firmly believe done with malice aforethought. It is no mystery that a large proportion of the more vocal elements of the Patriot Movement are Veterans.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778), Lieutt. Enslin of Colo. Malcom's Regiment [was] tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false accounts, [he was] found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and [we] do sentence him to be dismiss'd [from] the service with infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with abhorrence and detestation of such infamous crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of camp tomorrow morning by all the drummers and fifers in the Army never to return; The drummers and fifers [are] to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose. - George Washington, The Writings of George Washington, John C. Fitzpatrick, editor (Washington: U. S. Government Printing Office, 1934), Vol. XI, pp. 83-84, from General Orders at Valley Forge on March 14, 1778. If we reflect on the dreadful consequences of sodomy to a state, and on the extent to which this abominable vice may be secretly carried on and spread, we cannot, on the principles of sound policy, consider the punishment as too severe. For if it once begins to prevail, not only will boys be easily corrupted by adults, but also by other boys; nor will it ever cease; more especially as it must thus soon lose all its shamefulness and infamy and become fashionable and the national taste; and then . . . national weakness, for which all remedies are ineffectual, most inevitably follow; not perhaps in the very first generation, but certainly in the course of the third or fourth. . . . To these evils may be added yet another, viz. that the constitutions of those men who submit to this degradation are, if not always, yet very often, totally destroyed, though in a different way from what is the result of whoredom. Whoever, therefore, wishes to ruin a nation, has only to get this vice introduced; for it is extremely difficult to extirpate it where it has once taken root because it can be propagated with much more secrecy . . . and when we perceive that it has once got a footing in any country, however powerful and flourishing, we may venture as politicians to predict that the foundation of its future decline is laid and that after some hundred years it will no longer be the same . . . powerful country it is at present. - Sir John David Michaelis, Commentaries on the Laws of Moses, Alexander Smith, translator (London: F. C. and J. Rivington, 1814), Vol. IV, pp. 115-117.
_________________________________________________________________________ You may be right about ulterior motives. It's not just TheLiarInChief and the civilian suit in charge of the DOD who are posturing PC idiocy. Today the military's top uniformed officer - Admiral Mike Mullen, chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - enthusiastically embraced Messiah's grand idea. www.usnews.com/articles/n...ban-should-be-lifted.html Some cut and paste: The military's top uniformed officer on Tuesday made an impassioned plea for allowing gays to serve openly in uniform, telling a Senate panel it was a matter of integrity and that it is wrong to force people to "lie about who they are in order to defend their fellow citizens." The comments by Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, set the stage for the Defense Department's yearlong study into how the ban can be repealed without causing a major upheaval in the military.
During my military time, I never met ONE straight that cared to shower with "gays". It was always uncomfortable.
And yet the first straight guy who murders or severely beats a faggot for ogling at him in the shower will be charged with a hate crime. Why the hell anyone would want to serve in today's military is beyond my comprehension.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat
I wonder how long the Swish’nSwallow congress will take to decide "Don't ask, Don't tell" question?
I don't doubt it, cyni. On the one hand, the military tries to attract/appeal to very masculine men - good fighter stock. But then the military higher ups like Mullen turn around and say "but you machismo guys are going to be bunking in with openly gay guys and you must also have confidence in and respect these same guys to watch your back in a fox hole." Like wow! A testosterone laden military being forced to incorporate PC air fairy ideals is not going to function effectively, imo. Indeed, I don't quite understand why the military would appeal to gay guys in the first place. In any event, there must be something that is attractive that I'm not seeing because the night of Messiah's State of the Union address, I lurked at kos and almost all the posts were about Messiah not being emphatic about getting rid of the don't ask, don't tell policy. Of all the things wrong with Obama's speech, that's what the kossacks were all a-twitter about. I could not believe what I was reading. That and the color of their mod's tie - he was interviewed by Olbermann after the SOTU speech.
If you think about it, yes, you do. Where else can one practice their abnormal desires better than in the military. Male gay is in hog heaven when sequestered with all those nice men. Same for the females.
Male gay is in hog heaven when sequestered with all those nice men. I don't think there's too much love bestowed on male gays by the hetero male military guys. As you pointed out, straight guys did not even want to use the shower at the same time. I think tolerance in a don't ask don't tell setting was as good as it gets. But will tolerance persevere in an openly out of the closet situation? Whereas Mullen fretted about gays, who represent a significant minority in the military, being forced to keep their sexual preference under raps, maybe he should have given greater consideration to the feelings of the hetero majority of the military and the ill effects on morale if the don't ask, don't tell policy were over turned?
It is not just that, but that normal men are uncomfortable around them. It is a perverse flow to have another man eye you as a bedmate. As well queers are simply not trustworthy - their sexual hang-up/perversion is a very low order of sexuality and it is reflected in their personalities - snideness etc., .... I served with several such and while I did not dislike them I did not trust them either. In the military you have to be able to trust your team mates.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The reality is that they ARE NOT a significant minority. They are a minor minority. Out of my ship's crew I can think of maybe 5 (and crews rotate) out of 272 men over a 4 year period. I am sure there might have been a couple I was not aware of but their numbers were very small and they were tolerated as long as they kept their filthy hands to themselves. Open acceptance is another matter and is likely to disrupt unit morale and lead to fights and worse. You are not dealing with a bunch of PC wall flowers when you speak of a fighting unit.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Right on. Of an eleven man flight crew, the navigator was gay. Everyone knew it, understood it, accepted it. We had a job to do, he kept ALL facets of that part of his life totally detached. We got along fine. There was no need of any coming out party or all this nonsense now with current PC. He did not flaunt his sexuality, it was none of our interest or business and we kept our preference to ourselves.
I can just see Pvt. Francis become Frances and prancing out of the Barracks in Drag. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Actually, demographically most cross dressers are heterosexual men. Homosexual men like sex and relationships with other men, a dress to them is a massive turn off.
I never had problems with the few who were well known but not talked about. They didn't bother me as my perspective is they are just as discriminating about whom they go out with as I or any other heterosexual man was. I never saw them as dumb enough to screw with someone who would get ugly if they got stupid and assumed wrong.
Perhaps true, but all of the men I've known who dress in drag are certifiably gay.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I have - we had this Gunner's Mate, nicknamed Psycho, whom a gay guy on my ship made the mistake of fondling when he was passed out in his bunk. The guy lived, but they had to escort him off the ship the next day.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#2. To: scrapper2, TwentyTwelve, James Deffenbach, Lod, Cynicom, bluegrass, HOUNDDAWG, christine, farmfriend, all (#0)
#3. To: scrapper2 (#0)
Better men than me have addressed this before bump
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#4. To: Original_Intent, X-15, TwentyTwelve, James Deffenbach, Lod, Cynicom, bluegrass, HOUNDDAWG, christine, farmfriend, all (#2)
(Edited)
The NWO wants to use the U.S. Military up and destroy it.
#5. To: scrapper2 (#4)
#6. To: scrapper2 (#0)
#7. To: X-15 (#3)
#8. To: Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#5)
(Edited)
During my military time, I never met ONE straight that cared to shower with "gays". It was always uncomfortable.
#9. To: scrapper2 (#8)
Indeed, I don't quite understand why the military would appeal to gay guys in the first place.
#10. To: Cynicom (#9)
Where else can one practice their abnormal desires better than in the military.
#11. To: scrapper2, Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#8)
A testosterone laden military being forced to incorporate PC air fairy ideals is not going to function effectively, imo.
#12. To: scrapper2, Cynicom (#10)
Whereas Mullen fretted about gays, who represent a significant minority in the military, being forced to keep their sexual preference under raps, maybe he should have given greater consideration to the feelings of the hetero majority of the military and the ill effects on morale if the don't ask, don't tell policy were over turned?
#13. To: Original_Intent (#12)
The reality is that they ARE NOT a significant minority. They are a minor minority. Out of my ship's crew I can think of maybe 5 (and crews rotate) out of 272 men over a 4 year period. I am sure there might have been a couple I was not aware of but their numbers were very small and they were tolerated as long as they kept their filthy hands to themselves. Open acceptance is another matter and is likely to disrupt unit morale and lead to fights and worse. You are not dealing with a bunch of PC wall flowers when you speak of a fighting unit.
#14. To: Cynicom (#13)
#15. To: Original_Intent (#14)
#16. To: Original_Intent (#11)
#17. To: Ferret Mike (#15)
Actually, demographically most cross dressers are heterosexual men. Homosexual men like sex and relationships with other men, a dress to them is a massive turn off.
#18. To: Ferret Mike (#16)
I never saw them as dumb enough to screw with someone who would get ugly if they got stupid and assumed wrong.
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