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Religion
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Title: Christian Count.....Just Curious
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 2, 2010
Author: AKA
Post Date: 2010-02-02 12:48:21 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 4299
Comments: 243

Just curious who would consider themselves a christian. Under this definition. That there is a God and he did write the Bible. Or that it was inspired by him. That his word is perfect and without flaws. That Jesus is Gods only son and the only way to heaven.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 111.

#4. To: A K A Stone (#0)

That his word is perfect and without flaws.

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

I'm a heretic.

I don't want to be lumped in with people that call themselves christians.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-02   14:55:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

Why his version, of course. Need you even ask? LOL!

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-02-02   15:20:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   9:29:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you guys familiar with the historicity and translation history of the Bible?

Just ask because it doesn't sound like it.

Which version is the perfect one?

That is what I asked, because I am somewhat familiar with the translation history of the Bible.

So, since you are evidently so familiar with this, since you question my familiarity with it, I'll ask you which one is the perfect "inerrant" version?

Now I fully expect you to ignore that question by trying to distract by asking about the "Magna Carta for example? Do you believe that they mean what they say? If so, then why, in contrast? What about "ancient Egyptian writings?" Same questions. "...

You won't answer because you can't. That's the real reason why. Because your answer will lead to more questions that you will find somewhat uncomfortable to contemplate and will tend to piss you off.

Here it is again: which version is the perfect "inerrant" version?

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   10:26:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   10:27:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Well, sorry, I cannot sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you.

I'll take your answer to have been no then.

And quit getting so emotional. It's unbecoming.

It's a very simple question.

Which version of the Bible is the perfect inerrant version?

It only takes a one line response. No need to "sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you." What a wonderful distraction that was. Very creative. But not unexpected.

See? I told you that you would not answer it. Perhaps you'll reconsider??? For the benefit of the others here? Do it for them, not for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   11:07:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   12:14:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

Well well well. What have we here?

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

Really? I didn't know I have been on this board for that long. How time flies!

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God

"We"?

and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

Answer my question and I will be happy to. I just need to know what the perfect version is.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

I never said or hinted that I was an expert. Since when does it take an expert?

You continue to distract.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   12:50:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   13:34:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Start with the American Standard Version of 1901. Then defer to the New American Standard Version or the King James.

So there is no perfect version? Final answer? You admit it? See how silly that is? There is no magically preserved perfect translation. They all have errors, which always lead to contradictions and inconsistencies. But you can understand the errors.

Start with the American Standard Version of 1901. Then defer to the New American Standard Version or the King James. Then do what I do and cross reference those with the Greek/Hebrew parallel text, also readily available.

Why should anyone start with the ASV of 1901 and then defer to the ASV or KJV? Is there something special about them?

As to a "perfect" version, depends upon how one defines "perfect." As to being able to glean all that you need to know without conflict from other versions, follow that advice and you'll be fine.

I define it as being without error. So you then recommend consulting other less than perfect translations in order to get a perfect translation? That might work in certain areas to help make something more clear, but other areas are totally incompatible.

So, lets get down to brass tacks here. Where does that word "hell" come from? Let's just start with that word, and not the doctrine behind it. We can get into that later if you want.

Consult your books and tell me.

Tell me how it is translated from words that mean grave, pit, gehenna (a valley in Jerusalem where trash was burned, not people), etc. It is inconsistent, and in this one little area, entire denominations build their doctrines on this one error.

Tell me also how that word ended up in the OT. Same with "Lucifer". That is a latin word that people think means Satan. It's the king of Babylon. Read it.

That is just a start.

Then we can get into the "for ever" nonsense in both the OT and NT.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   14:21:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The king james version is perfect. Others may be as well. Others such as the NIV definately are not.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   0:03:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Here is a little something I found. Perhaps you will take a minute and read it. Perhaps not. It highlights the differences I have with them, and you.

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

(a) Do they teach that God knows evil (Genesis 3:22 KJV)? No. (added by PSUSA)

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:Cool? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-05   13:51:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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