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Religion
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Title: Christian Count.....Just Curious
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 2, 2010
Author: AKA
Post Date: 2010-02-02 12:48:21 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 8606
Comments: 243

Just curious who would consider themselves a christian. Under this definition. That there is a God and he did write the Bible. Or that it was inspired by him. That his word is perfect and without flaws. That Jesus is Gods only son and the only way to heaven.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 123.

#4. To: A K A Stone (#0)

That his word is perfect and without flaws.

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

I'm a heretic.

I don't want to be lumped in with people that call themselves christians.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-02   14:55:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

Why his version, of course. Need you even ask? LOL!

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-02-02   15:20:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   9:29:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you guys familiar with the historicity and translation history of the Bible?

Just ask because it doesn't sound like it.

Which version is the perfect one?

That is what I asked, because I am somewhat familiar with the translation history of the Bible.

So, since you are evidently so familiar with this, since you question my familiarity with it, I'll ask you which one is the perfect "inerrant" version?

Now I fully expect you to ignore that question by trying to distract by asking about the "Magna Carta for example? Do you believe that they mean what they say? If so, then why, in contrast? What about "ancient Egyptian writings?" Same questions. "...

You won't answer because you can't. That's the real reason why. Because your answer will lead to more questions that you will find somewhat uncomfortable to contemplate and will tend to piss you off.

Here it is again: which version is the perfect "inerrant" version?

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   10:26:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   10:27:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Well, sorry, I cannot sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you.

I'll take your answer to have been no then.

And quit getting so emotional. It's unbecoming.

It's a very simple question.

Which version of the Bible is the perfect inerrant version?

It only takes a one line response. No need to "sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you." What a wonderful distraction that was. Very creative. But not unexpected.

See? I told you that you would not answer it. Perhaps you'll reconsider??? For the benefit of the others here? Do it for them, not for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   11:07:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   12:14:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

Well well well. What have we here?

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

Really? I didn't know I have been on this board for that long. How time flies!

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God

"We"?

and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

Answer my question and I will be happy to. I just need to know what the perfect version is.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

I never said or hinted that I was an expert. Since when does it take an expert?

You continue to distract.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   12:50:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   13:34:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Start with the American Standard Version of 1901. Then defer to the New American Standard Version or the King James.

So there is no perfect version? Final answer? You admit it? See how silly that is? There is no magically preserved perfect translation. They all have errors, which always lead to contradictions and inconsistencies. But you can understand the errors.

Start with the American Standard Version of 1901. Then defer to the New American Standard Version or the King James. Then do what I do and cross reference those with the Greek/Hebrew parallel text, also readily available.

Why should anyone start with the ASV of 1901 and then defer to the ASV or KJV? Is there something special about them?

As to a "perfect" version, depends upon how one defines "perfect." As to being able to glean all that you need to know without conflict from other versions, follow that advice and you'll be fine.

I define it as being without error. So you then recommend consulting other less than perfect translations in order to get a perfect translation? That might work in certain areas to help make something more clear, but other areas are totally incompatible.

So, lets get down to brass tacks here. Where does that word "hell" come from? Let's just start with that word, and not the doctrine behind it. We can get into that later if you want.

Consult your books and tell me.

Tell me how it is translated from words that mean grave, pit, gehenna (a valley in Jerusalem where trash was burned, not people), etc. It is inconsistent, and in this one little area, entire denominations build their doctrines on this one error.

Tell me also how that word ended up in the OT. Same with "Lucifer". That is a latin word that people think means Satan. It's the king of Babylon. Read it.

That is just a start.

Then we can get into the "for ever" nonsense in both the OT and NT.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   14:21:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The king james version is perfect. Others may be as well. Others such as the NIV definately are not.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   0:03:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The king james version is perfect. Others may be as well. Others such as the NIV definately are not.

AH. THE ALL KNOWING STONE HAS DECREED IT SO.

christine  posted on  2010-02-05   1:11:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

AH. THE ALL KNOWING STONE HAS DECREED IT SO.

I am not all knowing. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

What fault do you find with the King James version? Can you name any?

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   21:55:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what do you know about King James? who did he commission to translate the various books of the bible. were there any left out? were there any politics involved in the decision of what was to be included? he sounds like he was a rather savory character to me.

++++++++

With the death of Queen Elizabeth I, Prince James VI of Scotland became King James I of England. His name has become synonymous with the famous printing of the Bible that bears his name, the “King James Bible” of 1611 AD. He was one of the most intelligent Kings to reign over England, but his personal life made him the most controversial since his relative, King Henry VIII.

James VI of Scotland and James I of England

James VI of Scotland (June 19, 1566 - March 27, 1625, reigned July 24, 1567 - March 27, 1625) became James I of England and Ireland (reigned March 24, 1603- March 27, 1625) and was the first king of both England and Scotland. He also held the title of King of France, as had all his predecessors in the English throne since October 21, 1422, although by his time the title didn't come with an active claim of this throne. James succeeded Elizabeth I as the closest living relative of the unmarried childless English monarch, through his descent from one of Henry VIII's sisters.

King James Crowned at the Age of One

Prince James became King of Scotland on July 24, 1567, at the age of 13 months, after his mother Mary, Queen of Scots was forced to abdicate. Mary fled to England, where she was imprisoned for the next 19 years. His father, Lord Darnley, had died in mysterious circumstances shortly after James was born. James was formally crowned at the Church of the Holy Rood, Stirling on July 29, 1567. In accordance to the religious atmosphere of the time, he was brought up as a Scottish Presbyterian, though his mother had been a Roman Catholic.

King James – from Scotland to England

James inherited the throne of England after the death of his mother's cousin, Queen Elizabeth I. James was never a very popular monarch among the people of England. He laid much of the groundwork that would eventually lead to the beheading of his heir Charles I during the English Civil War, but because of his political skills, his rule was relatively stable. James married Anne of Denmark by proxy on August 20, 1589, and in person on November 23, 1589 and again in person in January 21, 1590. They had eight children, of whom only three lived beyond infancy: Henry, Prince of Wales- (February 19, 1594 - November 6, 1612), Elizabeth Stuart - (August 19, 1596 - February 13, 1662), and King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland - (November 19, 1600 - January 30, 1649).

James dissolved the English Parliament on February 8, 1622, following a dispute involving parliamentary criticisms of a marriage proposed by James, of his son Charles to Princess Maria Anna of Spain. King James was quoted as saying, "Monarchy is the greatest thing on earth. Kings are rightly called gods since just like God they have power of life and death over all their subjects in all things. They are accountable to God only ... so it is a crime for anyone to argue about what a king can do."

King James is considered to have been one of the most intellectual and learned individuals ever to sit on any English or Scottish throne. He is primarily remembered for authorizing the production of the King James Version of the Bible, the highly popular English translation from Greek and Hebrew, which remains the most printed book in the history of the world, with over one billion copies in print. King James had nothing to do with the translating the Bible, he merely authorized it and provided financing for its production. Beyond that, however, James wrote several books himself.

'Queen James'

One area of the life of King James that for many years remained clouded in controversy was allegations that James was homosexual. As James did father several children by Anne of Denmark, it is actually more accurate to say that he was allegedly a bi-sexual. While his close relationships with a number of men were noted, earlier historians questioned their sexual nature, however, few modern historians cast any doubt on the King's bisexuality and the fact that his sexuality and choice of male partners both as King of Scotland then later in London as King of England were the subject of gossip from the city taverns to the Privy Council. His relationship as a teenager with fellow teenager Esmé Stuart, Earl of Lennox was criticized by Scottish Church leaders, who were part of a conspiracy to keep the young King and the young French courtier apart, as the relationship was improper to say the least. Lennox, facing threats of death, was forced to leave Scotland.

In the 1580s, King James openly kissed Francis Stewart Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell. Contemporary sources clearly hinted their relationship was a sexual one. When James inherited the English throne from Queen Elizabeth I in 1603, it was openly joked of the new English monarch in London that “Elizabeth was King: now James is Queen!” If there is still any doubt, it should be noted that George Villiers, also held an intimate relationship with King James, about which King James himself was quite open. King James called Villiers his “wife” and called himself Villiers' “husband”! King James died in 1625 of gout and senility. He is buried in the Henry VII chapel in Westminster Abbey, with one of his favorite male suitors on his right, and another on his left.

christine  posted on  2010-02-05   22:19:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

what do you know about King James? who did he commission to translate the various books of the bible. were there any left out?

The only thing that would have been left out is what God would have wanted left out. He was in charge.

Again what fault do you find in the King James version?

All that history you cut and pasted is irrelevant.

It seems that you don't believe in God having a perfect word.

You would have us all guessing as to what the truth is. That would have been a cruel little g god. But he is perfect and his word is perfectly preserved in the King James Version. So again please show me some fault in this book if you know of any.

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-06   10:07:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

But he is perfect and his word is perfectly preserved in the King James Version. So again please show me some fault in this book if you know of any.

The fault is within all translations because a RIGHTEOUS GOD entrusted UNRIGHTEOUS HUMANS to perserve His word. What you get is contradictions which leaves people guessing as to what the truth is.

Cruel or not, this is the truth, which is not to blame God or His word but rather the human inability to even tell a story from one person to the next without butchering the details. This has always been true and will continue to be true because each individual has their own tiny world perception, which is insignificant when compared to the perception of God.

Your understanding would increase immensely IF you could separate what is God from what is human. I know, this is hard for you because you grant yourself qualities that are the sole right of the Lord and not yours, such as righteousness.

So, based on the scriputres presented to Erik, is there a Trinity? Review the scriptures and determine for me WHO judges.......I bet you will find no mention of AKA Stone in the text.

Either you believe that God makes contradictions in the Bible or you accept that humans in retelling make contradictions. Theologians far brighter than you have determined the latter to be true throughout history and they don't bother with this silly "perfect" word argument. What you cannot deny is that the contradictions exist, even in the King James Version, unless you are either ignorant or dishonest.

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   10:46:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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