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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Christian Count.....Just Curious
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 2, 2010
Author: AKA
Post Date: 2010-02-02 12:48:21 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 4217
Comments: 243

Just curious who would consider themselves a christian. Under this definition. That there is a God and he did write the Bible. Or that it was inspired by him. That his word is perfect and without flaws. That Jesus is Gods only son and the only way to heaven.

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#111. To: A K A Stone (#103)

Here is a little something I found. Perhaps you will take a minute and read it. Perhaps not. It highlights the differences I have with them, and you.

Do they believe the fire in I Cor.3:15 burns mans’ works, but not the man himself? Yes.

But do they teach that this same fire in Rev.20:15 also burns works, not the man? No.

Do they believe that God is the Creator of ALL? Yes.

But do they teach that God created EVIL as He says in (Isa. 45:7)? No.

(a) Do they teach that God knows evil (Genesis 3:22 KJV)? No. (added by PSUSA)

Do they believe that God is absolutely and totally sovereign (Eph. 1:11)? Yes.

But do they teach that God exercises sovereignty over man’s supposed "free" will? No.

Do they believe that Jesus Christ IS the Saviour of the whole world (I Jn 4:14)? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ will SAVE the whole world? No.

Do they believe that presently Christ only has immortality (I Tim. 6:16)? Yes.

But do they teach the truth therefore that men’s souls are mortal and not immortal? No.

Do they believe that the original manuscripts of God’s Word were inerrant? Yes.

But do they teach us that the King James translation, which they say is "inerrant" has gone through THOUSANDS of error corrections since 1611? No.

Do they believe that the soul that sins shall DIE (Ezek. 18:4)? Yes.

But do they teach that souls of deceased sinners are actually DEAD? No.

Do they believe there are many cults today that need exposing? Yes.

But do they teach that Christendom, by its OWN definitions, is also a cult? No.

Do they believe that Sodom is "suffering the vengeance of eternal [aeonian] fire? Yes.

But do they teach that Sodom will be restored to their former estate (Ezek. 16:55)? No.

Do they believe in a future resurrection of dead people back to life (John 5:29)? Yes.

But do they teach that a resurrection is imperative for dead people to live again? No.

Do they believe the first half of I Cor. 15:22 that "For as in Adam ALL die?" Yes.

But do they teach the last half, "even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive?" No.

Do they believe that "...the end of the world [Gk: aion -- age]" ends in Mat. 24:3? Yes.

But do they teach that this same "aion -- age" in Matt. 25:41 & 46 will also end. No.

Do they believe that Jn 3:13 & Acts 2:34 are truthful Scripture (II Tim. 3:16)? Yes.

But do they teach this truth that "NO man," including David, has gone to heaven? No.

Do they believe ALL God purposed, spoke, and willed (Isa. 46:10-11), He will do? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s "will" to save all, I Tim. 2:4, etc., will be done? No.

Do they believe that Satan lied when he told Eve, "thou shalt not surely die?" Yes.

But do they teach the truth that sinners really do DIE at death as God has stated? No.

Do they believe that the Apocryphal books do not belong in the Bible? Yes.

But do they teach us that the 1611 so-called "inerrant" King James Bible contained fourteen such books, including "Tobit," "Judith," "The idol Bel and the Dragon"? No.

Do they believe that Christ is totally responsibility for our salvation? Yes.

But do they teach that "no man can" come to Christ of himself (John 6:44)? No.

Do they believe that Satan is the greatest sinner of all? Yes.

But do they teach Jn. 8:44 which states that Satan "sinned from the beginning?" No.

Do they believe Christ really died for the sins of the world? Yes.

But do they teach that Jesus Christ was dead when they placed Him in the tomb? No.

Do they believe the many Scriptures that liken death to "sleep?" Yes.

But do they teach that dead people are unconscious, "sleeping" till resurrection? No.

Do they believe that the last enemy to be destroyed [Gk: abolished] is death? Yes.

But do they teach that ALL death, including the second death, will be abolished? No.

Do they believe that all things are possible with God (Mark 10:27)? Yes.

But do they teach that it is possible for God to save nonbelievers after they die? No.

Do they believe that every tongue in heaven and earth will confess Jesus as LORD? Yes.

But do they teach that the Holy Spirit inspires this sincere voluntary act (I Cor. 12:3)? No.

Do they believe that good and evil are both in the same tree of knowledge? Yes

But do they teach that good and evil both come from the same root source? No.

Do they believe that God absolutely "knows all" (I John 3:20)? Yes.

But do they teach that God knows in advance ALL who will reject Christ? No.

Do they believe that God’s love will never fail (I Cor. 13:Cool? Yes.

But do they teach that God’s love will never fail in saving the world He loves? No.

Do they believe the apostles spoke in foreign languages in Acts 2:4-11? Yes.

But do they teach that of the hundreds of thousands who claim to speak in tongues today, not one of them can speak in multiple languages which they did not already study? No.

Do they believe that the masses did not understand Christ’s parables (Mat. 13:13)? Yes.

But do they teach that Christ purposely didn’t want them to understand, (Vs. 14-17)? No.

Do they believe the Old Covenant contained the Ten Commandments (Deut.4:12)? Yes.

But do they teach a New Covenant which contains a much higher law (Heb. 8:8-9)? No.

Do they believe that God created all the spirits and messengers of heaven? Yes.

But do they teach that God also created Satan who was always His adversary? No.

Do they believe that loving our enemies means doing good and not evil to them? Yes.

But do they teach that God will never subject His enemies to eternal torture and evil? No.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-05   13:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#112. To: A K A Stone (#104)

We are commanded to judge. Oh and you are a fool.

lol.....let's check on the scriptures.

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: WHO ART THOU THAT JUDGEST ANOTHER? James, iv, 12.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more. Romans, xiv, 13.

Wherin thou judgest another, THOU CONDEMNEST THYSELF. Romans, ii, 1.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned......For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. Luke, vi, 37-38.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shaall be judged: and with waht measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew, vii, 1-2.

God is the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another. Psalms, lxxv,7.

Who made thee ruler and judge over us? Acts, vii 27, 35.

He maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. (speaking of fools.....)Isaiah, xl, 23.

So, AKA, do these scriptures say that you are "commanded" to judge or do we have another contradition within the infallible Bible?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-05   19:34:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#113. To: christine (#107)

AH. THE ALL KNOWING STONE HAS DECREED IT SO.

I am not all knowing. But thanks for the vote of confidence.

What fault do you find with the King James version? Can you name any?

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   21:55:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#114. To: your_neighbor (#109)

He said the "truth will set you free."

He also said he didn't come to destroy the law. The law is in the old testament.

If you are afraid to answer my previous question. That is ok.

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   21:57:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#115. To: abraxas (#112)

So, AKA, do these scriptures say that you are "commanded" to judge or do we have another contradition within the infallible Bible?

The Bible teaches us to judge righteous judgement. We have to judge.

The verses that you quoted are simply saying not to be a hypocrite in your judgements.

No contradiction. Hopefully you can learn from that and study it further.

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-05   22:02:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#116. To: A K A Stone (#113)

what do you know about King James? who did he commission to translate the various books of the bible. were there any left out? were there any politics involved in the decision of what was to be included? he sounds like he was a rather savory character to me.

++++++++

With the death of Queen Elizabeth I, Prince James VI of Scotland became King James I of England. His name has become synonymous with the famous printing of the Bible that bears his name, the “King James Bible” of 1611 AD. He was one of the most intelligent Kings to reign over England, but his personal life made him the most controversial since his relative, King Henry VIII.

James VI of Scotland and James I of England

James VI of Scotland (June 19, 1566 - March 27, 1625, reigned July 24, 1567 - March 27, 1625) became James I of England and Ireland (reigned March 24, 1603- March 27, 1625) and was the first king of both England and Scotland. He also held the title of King of France, as had all his predecessors in the English throne since October 21, 1422, although by his time the title didn't come with an active claim of this throne. James succeeded Elizabeth I as the closest living relative of the unmarried childless English monarch, through his descent from one of Henry VIII's sisters.

King James Crowned at the Age of One

Prince James became King of Scotland on July 24, 1567, at the age of 13 months, after his mother Mary, Queen of Scots was forced to abdicate. Mary fled to England, where she was imprisoned for the next 19 years. His father, Lord Darnley, had died in mysterious circumstances shortly after James was born. James was formally crowned at the Church of the Holy Rood, Stirling on July 29, 1567. In accordance to the religious atmosphere of the time, he was brought up as a Scottish Presbyterian, though his mother had been a Roman Catholic.

King James – from Scotland to England

James inherited the throne of England after the death of his mother's cousin, Queen Elizabeth I. James was never a very popular monarch among the people of England. He laid much of the groundwork that would eventually lead to the beheading of his heir Charles I during the English Civil War, but because of his political skills, his rule was relatively stable. James married Anne of Denmark by proxy on August 20, 1589, and in person on November 23, 1589 and again in person in January 21, 1590. They had eight children, of whom only three lived beyond infancy: Henry, Prince of Wales- (February 19, 1594 - November 6, 1612), Elizabeth Stuart - (August 19, 1596 - February 13, 1662), and King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland - (November 19, 1600 - January 30, 1649).

James dissolved the English Parliament on February 8, 1622, following a dispute involving parliamentary criticisms of a marriage proposed by James, of his son Charles to Princess Maria Anna of Spain. King James was quoted as saying, "Monarchy is the greatest thing on earth. Kings are rightly called gods since just like God they have power of life and death over all their subjects in all things. They are accountable to God only ... so it is a crime for anyone to argue about what a king can do."

King James is considered to have been one of the most intellectual and learned individuals ever to sit on any English or Scottish throne. He is primarily remembered for authorizing the production of the King James Version of the Bible, the highly popular English translation from Greek and Hebrew, which remains the most printed book in the history of the world, with over one billion copies in print. King James had nothing to do with the translating the Bible, he merely authorized it and provided financing for its production. Beyond that, however, James wrote several books himself.

'Queen James'

One area of the life of King James that for many years remained clouded in controversy was allegations that James was homosexual. As James did father several children by Anne of Denmark, it is actually more accurate to say that he was allegedly a bi-sexual. While his close relationships with a number of men were noted, earlier historians questioned their sexual nature, however, few modern historians cast any doubt on the King's bisexuality and the fact that his sexuality and choice of male partners both as King of Scotland then later in London as King of England were the subject of gossip from the city taverns to the Privy Council. His relationship as a teenager with fellow teenager Esmé Stuart, Earl of Lennox was criticized by Scottish Church leaders, who were part of a conspiracy to keep the young King and the young French courtier apart, as the relationship was improper to say the least. Lennox, facing threats of death, was forced to leave Scotland.

In the 1580s, King James openly kissed Francis Stewart Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell. Contemporary sources clearly hinted their relationship was a sexual one. When James inherited the English throne from Queen Elizabeth I in 1603, it was openly joked of the new English monarch in London that “Elizabeth was King: now James is Queen!” If there is still any doubt, it should be noted that George Villiers, also held an intimate relationship with King James, about which King James himself was quite open. King James called Villiers his “wife” and called himself Villiers' “husband”! King James died in 1625 of gout and senility. He is buried in the Henry VII chapel in Westminster Abbey, with one of his favorite male suitors on his right, and another on his left.

christine  posted on  2010-02-05   22:19:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#117. To: A K A Stone (#115) (Edited)

The Bible teaches us to judge righteous judgement. We have to judge.

No, the scriptures I quoted didn't say RIGHTEOUS judgment.......YOU say that. But, the scriptures quoted are quite clear.

Besides one would actually have to be RIGHTEOUS to make a righteous judgment and that discounts you AKA, even if your cherry picking application of scripture had any merit.......which it doesn't. You merely prove my point about the contraditions. The scripture is clear, yet you deny the Biblical word so that you can opt for other scriptures that better fit your small perception and belief system.

Some Christian....you discount the scipture when it doesn't fit your self- righteous and arrogant belief that YOU should be the judge and not the Lord.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-05   22:30:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#118. To: A K A Stone (#114)

He said the "truth will set you free."

He also said he didn't come to destroy the law. The law is in the old testament.

In order to change something - you need not destroy what exists - what you do is start something better - and the old withers away.

That is what Christianity did to the evil ways of the Old Testament.

The New Testament is NEW - it supplemented the old!

The Christian god and the Jewish god are totally different.

So is the Christian attitude to tribalism.

your_neighbor  posted on  2010-02-05   22:45:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#119. To: your_neighbor (#118)

The Christian god and the Jewish god are totally different.

Boy your stupid. Anyone who says that isn't worth wasting my time on. Depart from me into....

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-06   10:01:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#120. To: abraxas (#117)

No, the scriptures I quoted didn't say RIGHTEOUS judgment.......YOU say that. But, the scriptures quoted are quite clear.

No fool you didn't. Because you were ignorant or you wished to decieve. Here you go. No contradiction little mind squanderer of your measure of faith.

Jesus said: "Judge not, that you be not judged" (Matthew 7:1).

Does this mean we are never to judge? Certainly not, for Jesus also said: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24).

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-06   10:04:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#121. To: christine (#116)

what do you know about King James? who did he commission to translate the various books of the bible. were there any left out?

The only thing that would have been left out is what God would have wanted left out. He was in charge.

Again what fault do you find in the King James version?

All that history you cut and pasted is irrelevant.

It seems that you don't believe in God having a perfect word.

You would have us all guessing as to what the truth is. That would have been a cruel little g god. But he is perfect and his word is perfectly preserved in the King James Version. So again please show me some fault in this book if you know of any.

www.libertysflame.com

A K A Stone  posted on  2010-02-06   10:07:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#122. To: A K A Stone (#120) (Edited)

No fool you didn't. Because you were ignorant or you wished to decieve. Here you go. No contradiction little mind squanderer of your measure of faith.

Jesus said: "Judge not, that you be not judged" (Matthew 7:1).

Does this mean we are never to judge? Certainly not, for Jesus also said: "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24).

So, are you claiming there is no contradiction between Matthew and John?

As I said before, one must actually be righteous to make a righteous judgment and this would discount you.

The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. James, iii, 18. (that's not you AKA)

If righteousness came by law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians, ii, 21, iii, 21. (So, did Christ die in vain, AKA?)

Moses describeth righteousness that is of the law. Romans, x, 6. (As you do)

Christ is the END of the law of righteousness to everyone who believeth. Romans, x, 3. (Do you believeth?)

They BEING IGNORANT of God's righteousness, and going out to establish THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have NOT submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. Romans, x, 3. (This scripture is speaking directly to you AKA)

AS IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE. Romans, iii, 10. (Hence the provision that you should NOT pass judgment, because YOU are not righteous.) So, is this last scripture a contradiction or untruth, according to you, within the infallible Bible? Is there a loop hole that omits you from understanding that YOU are NOT righteous?

One more for you: We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness's are as filthy rags. Isaiah 64, 6.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   10:23:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#123. To: A K A Stone (#121)

But he is perfect and his word is perfectly preserved in the King James Version. So again please show me some fault in this book if you know of any.

The fault is within all translations because a RIGHTEOUS GOD entrusted UNRIGHTEOUS HUMANS to perserve His word. What you get is contradictions which leaves people guessing as to what the truth is.

Cruel or not, this is the truth, which is not to blame God or His word but rather the human inability to even tell a story from one person to the next without butchering the details. This has always been true and will continue to be true because each individual has their own tiny world perception, which is insignificant when compared to the perception of God.

Your understanding would increase immensely IF you could separate what is God from what is human. I know, this is hard for you because you grant yourself qualities that are the sole right of the Lord and not yours, such as righteousness.

So, based on the scriputres presented to Erik, is there a Trinity? Review the scriptures and determine for me WHO judges.......I bet you will find no mention of AKA Stone in the text.

Either you believe that God makes contradictions in the Bible or you accept that humans in retelling make contradictions. Theologians far brighter than you have determined the latter to be true throughout history and they don't bother with this silly "perfect" word argument. What you cannot deny is that the contradictions exist, even in the King James Version, unless you are either ignorant or dishonest.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   10:46:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#124. To: christine (#116) (Edited)

With the death of Queen Elizabeth I, Prince James VI of Scotland became King James I of England. His name has become synonymous ...

You're baffling him with the truth.

I'm sure he'll ignore it totally. Like he totally ignores the revisions in the KJV but claims its perfection. These kinds of people love to ignore things.

They ignore the fact that if the KJV is perfect, then it took his stupid god nearly 1600 years to finally get it right. If you lived prior to that, I guess you were SOL.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   10:54:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#125. To: your_neighbor (#118)

The Christian god and the Jewish god are totally different.

I say that you are right.

Jeremiah 8:8 CJB "'How can you say, "We are wise; ADONAI's Torah is with us," when in fact the lying pen of the scribes has turned it into falsehood?

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   11:01:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#126. To: PSUSA (#124)

They ignore the fact that if the KJV is perfect, then it took his stupid god nearly 1600 years to finally get it right. If you lived prior to that, I guess you were SOL.

lol....

An unreasonable tale will always be in the mouth of the unwise. Ecclesiasticus, xx, 19.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   11:08:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#127. To: abraxas (#122)

mei krinete, hina mei kritheite

Did the translator leave out hina which can be translated "in order that, so that"?

The following passage suggests that this means "judge not in those matter wherein judgment may be meted out to you."

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

These individual lines and phrases can't be read in isolation. Jesus is saying that judges must themselves be clean or be cleansed in order to judge righteously I think.

randge  posted on  2010-02-06   11:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#128. To: randge (#127)

These individual lines and phrases can't be read in isolation. Jesus is saying that judges must themselves be clean or be cleansed in order to judge righteously I think.

But Randge, how CAN they judge righteously?

AS IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE. Romans, iii, 10

None are clean, none are perfect, none are righteous. Who is fit to judge, other than the Lord, when none are righteous?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   11:29:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#129. To: randge (#127)

And Randge, what of this scripture?

There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another? James, iv, 12.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   11:38:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#130. To: abraxas (#128)

AS IS WRITTEN, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO, NOT ONE. Romans, iii, 10

IMO:

We judge all the time. Look at the posts on this board. I'm sure you have issued your own judgments on these topics. I know I have.

The thing is, we should judge ourselves and leave others alone, due to the inevitable beams in our own eyes. It seems that we have a tendency to want to "help" God judge others.

Matthew 16:19 KJV And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That required judgment.

John 7:24 KJV Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

That is how we do it. When people want to lord it over us, there will be problems. So, don't lord it over others. It's the GOlden Rule in action.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   11:53:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#131. To: PSUSA (#130)

I'm sure you have issued your own judgments on these topics

The thing is, we should judge ourselves and leave others alone, due to the inevitable beams in our own eyes

So, don't lord it over others.

Always on topics. But, we are talking about making those personal judgments, as have been cast upon you and I from people who do not know and will never know what is in our hearts.

I agree completely.

I'm not attempting to lord anything over others. I'm attempting to discern who is RIGHTEOUS to pass judgment. I do not believe that I am of such righteousness and I am attempting to discern what basis others feel that they are righteous enough to judge you and I or anybody else for that matter.

Initially, I posted to discuss the Biblical contradictions. These posts were ignored completely, no comment whatsoever, but I did receive a big dose of judgment on me personally for having dared to post it. Kill the messenger I suppose.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   12:14:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#132. To: abraxas (#131)

Initially, I posted to discuss the Biblical contradictions. These posts were ignored completely, no comment whatsoever, but I did receive a big dose of judgment on me personally for having dared to post it. Kill the messenger I suppose.

You sometimes feel that way when your posts go unanswered. Myself, I just posted something on a topic that kind of interested me here and then had to run out on some errands.

As it happens, you posted some intriguing verses on "judging" and "righteousness." You asked me to pass on them. I can only say that these are things that I don't pretend to understand well.

It looks to me like Jesus is telling us that we are not capable of "judging" at all. Yet we judge all the time in this world. Who can walk in those shoes, I wonder. Who can follow in these superhuman footsteps? As in so many other concerns, I know that I'm not able.

Perhaps you'll be good enough to explain these verses to me. I confess that I'm not able to "judge" them.

randge  posted on  2010-02-06   13:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#133. To: abraxas (#131)

Initially, I posted to discuss the Biblical contradictions. These posts were ignored completely, no comment whatsoever, but I did receive a big dose of judgment on me personally for having dared to post it. Kill the messenger I suppose.

Sure. They ignore a lot. It's odd how much they ignore. I dont write anything for the scoffers benefit because I know that they will completely ignore it. Showing them things is a wasted effort. I've learned to respond, but knowing others might read it and discuss it if they think I am right or wrong, and discuss it in an intelligent manner. Sometimes I am wrong.

Christians don't do that. THey cover up their ears, like little kids, saying "NA NA NA NA NA NA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!!!!!", attack like punk kids swinging sticks.

OTOH some atheists, agnostics, wiccans, satanists and others can discuss things intelligently. I've had some interesting discussions with them. I don't agree with them, but they can carry on a conversaion without the usual christian name calling. They are more honest than christians, generally. Sad to say but it's true.

So I know what you are talking about.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   13:08:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#134. To: randge (#132)

Perhaps you'll be good enough to explain these verses to me. I confess that I'm not able to "judge" them.

I agree with you. How do we survive when we can not "judge" .. doesn't our personal sense of the best methods to provide for our families to our ensure our own futures? The scriptures don't provide modern methods; the Bible is out-of-date.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-02-06   13:26:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#135. To: buckeroo (#134)

I don't know, buck.

If you take the Scriptures as literally written, they were as "out of date" in the days of the Roman Empire as they are today.

Although the church and state have always been able to bend the verses to their purposes, they've always been a challenge to prevailing secular modes of operation - if you read them literally.

randge  posted on  2010-02-06   13:33:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#136. To: buckeroo, randge (#134)

The scriptures don't provide modern methods; the Bible is out-of-date.

Yes they do. Sadly people miss it. It is not the letter of the law that matters but the spirit that counts. You have to read between the lines somewhat. When dealing with the Bible they call that dispensation. Liberals use the term "living document" when talking about the Constitution. I believe they are twisting it to their own ends but in a sense they are correct. Take the part about all men being created equal. "All men" meant something different at that time. However, we interpret it using today's definition.

So how does that apply to the Bible? Take the commandment "Thou shalt not kill". Do we take that literally to mean anything at anytime? Or do we use it as an interpretive moral compass? Killing in self defense is OK as is the state killing for judicial reasons.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   13:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#137. To: randge (#135)

The Bible was nothing more than a documented "store of knowledge" for a number of Jewish nomadic family tribes prior to BC; reading the Bible upto Anno Domini has little impact two thousand years later.

I suppose the New Testament has more meaning in modern life as the various writings depict Jesus actually doing something about the old ways of Jews and Romans of the time. Still, taking collectively, the Bible doesn't tell me how to survive in the world, today. The Bible needs a new messiah breathing life into the message.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-02-06   13:51:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#138. To: PSUSA, abraxas (#136)

Should have included you in my above post.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   13:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#139. To: farmfriend (#136)

You have to read between the lines [of the Holy Bible] somewhat.

Yeah, Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker performed the same. I am tired of charlatans both with religious zeal and/or government fiat. Reading between the lines leads to drinking kool-aid by some far-off self-professed voice of God.

Look at how these Washington DC fanatics have destroyed the US Constitution. And look at how today's Christian churches endorse the same.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I am here to help." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1976

buckeroo  posted on  2010-02-06   14:00:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#140. To: farmfriend (#138) (Edited)

Agreed. I like the way you put that. BTW, it's murder, not kill, in that commandment.

The jews depend on the letter of the law, as well as make up entirely new laws to justify what they want to have justified. They ignore the spirit. Taking the spirit of the law into account is not in their best interests. For proof of that, read the Kol Nidre, that they recite on the day of atonement. That, BTW, is their most important day. www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=340&letter=K

"All vows [], obligations, oaths, and anathemas, whether called '1;onam,' '1;onas,' or by any other name, which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next (whose happy coming we await), we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect; they shall not bind us nor have power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligatory; nor the oaths be oaths."

You can see at that link how they then try and explain away a sick "prayer" written in plain language. Trust a jew at your peril. Their own words hang them.

Which brings up the ultimate oxymoron judeo-christianity since Christianity is supposedly only concerned with the spirit and jews are obsessed with their laws.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   14:14:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#141. To: randge (#132)

Perhaps you'll be good enough to explain these verses to me. I confess that I'm not able to "judge" them.

My point was not to better interpret, but simply to show by example that contradictions regarding judgment, righteousness, the Trinity and even what the requirements to be saved are within the Bible.

My only explantation is that contradictions abound. As stated before, humans cannot convey a story from one person to the next without butchering the details. My question is how does one determine which verse if more correct than the next or what is the correct response in light of the blatent contradictions within the text? I don't know.

I've said many times that the entire Bible could be discounted save the Sermon on the Mount and the people would have more than enough information and criteria to be the kind of Christians that are admired and emmulated. Perhaps that is a judgment, but I look at it as a simple observation. There would be less conflict over details and much contradiction is clarified.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   14:52:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#142. To: randge (#132)

It looks to me like Jesus is telling us that we are not capable of "judging" at all.

Me too, Randge. I'd rather be on the side of humility on the issue. I'm sure not superhuman.....I'm not able either. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   14:56:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#143. To: abraxas (#141)

This is why we cleave to civil law in our everyday lives and not ecclesiatical canons.

If folks try to run their civil law and criminal law based on scripture, they'll soon be at each other's throats.

This is the fundamental problem at the heart of the conflict within Islamic Civilization. The first Muslims eradicated most of the other sources of legitmacy within their cultures and replaced it with one scripture. The result has been internecine war from day one and lasting division.

randge  posted on  2010-02-06   15:05:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#144. To: buckeroo (#139)

Yeah, Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker performed the same.

That's not what I meant and you know it.

Look at how these Washington DC fanatics have destroyed the US Constitution. And look at how today's Christian churches endorse the same.

Satan is full of lies and he will whisper in your ear convincing you of things that aren't true. You can not attribute such evils to God.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   15:09:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#145. To: PSUSA (#140)

Trust a jew at your peril.

I married one.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   15:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#146. To: farmfriend (#145)

We need to be careful of slingin' shit here, no matter how grave and deep our grudges against this or that group.

randge  posted on  2010-02-06   15:14:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#147. To: farmfriend (#144) (Edited)

Satan is full of lies and he will whisper in your ear convincing you of things that aren't true. You can not attribute such evils to God.

The Bible states that God is often responsible for lies, murder and deception in the Old Testement.

For example:

Behold the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these they prophets and the Lord has spoken evil concerning thee. Kings 22:23

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11

I am the Lord and there is none else. I form the light and create the darkness, I make peace and CREATE EVIL, I the Lord do these things. Isaiah 45: 6-7

And it came to pass, when the evil spirit FROM GOD was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed him.

The Spirit of God promotes slaughter. Numbers 31: 17-18, Deuteronomy 20: 16- 17, Joshua 10 40-42, Ezekial 9: 4-8

And the Spirit of the Lord came uon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil. Judges 14:19

The Lord said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, KILL THEM and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord's fierce anger my turn away from Israel. Numbers 25:4

Now KILL ALL THE BOYS. And KILL EVERY WOMAN WHO HAS SLEPT WITH A MAN, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Numbers 31:17-18

Those last two scriputres contradict 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.......

For it was the Lord TO HARDEN THEIR HEARTS, that they should come against Israel in battle, THAT HE MIGHT DESTROY THEM UTTERLY, and that they might have no favor, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses. Joshue 11:20

And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made. Exodus 32:35

And I will bring the sword upon you to avendge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. Leviticus 26:25

Then the plague against the Isralites stopped, those who died in the plague numbered 24,000. Numbers 25:9

So the Lord sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. Chonicles 21"14

I will send a plague upon her and make blood flow in teh streets. The slain will fall within her, with the sword against her on every side. Then they will know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 28:23

A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps. Zechariah 14:15

More plagues to come.....Out of the temple came the seven angesl with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests. Revelation 15:6

God inflicts sickness. Numbers 11:33

I should add a caveat.......although the OT stories scriptures states as such, I tend to personally view God as loving and compassionate, despite the OT stories.

However, we often blame suffering on Satan. But if you think deeply about it, suffering is initially very painful, but it also is a blessing because suffering tempers the spirit, offering humility and deeper understanding. Could such a profound blessing come from Satan?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   15:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#148. To: farmfriend (#145)

If that struck a little too close to home, I'm sorry. Not for expressing my opinion, but for the effect it might have had.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Alex Jones is the Robert Tilton of the conspiracy world. ~Mister Clean

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-06   16:27:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#149. To: PSUSA (#148)

If that struck a little too close to home, I'm sorry. Not for expressing my opinion, but for the effect it might have had.

Apology accepted.

I don't think Jews are the problem but the pro-Israel at all costs policy is. Much can be said about Israel's behavior as a country. I would hate to have someone judge the members of this board by the policies of our nations.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   16:42:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#150. To: farmfriend (#149)

I would hate to have someone judge the members of this board by the policies of our nations.

Very astute, farmfriend. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-06   16:44:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#151. To: abraxas, Original_Intent (#147)

While I believe the Bible to be divinely inspired, we must never forget it was written by men. My views on God tend to be a bit different than most. They are often hard to explain. Mostly I don't talk about it though a few have had a small run down.

"The only thing better than a Federal Reserve audit would be a Federal Reserve autopsy." ~ unknown

farmfriend  posted on  2010-02-06   16:47:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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