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Religion
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Title: Christian Count.....Just Curious
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 2, 2010
Author: AKA
Post Date: 2010-02-02 12:48:21 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 13487
Comments: 243

Just curious who would consider themselves a christian. Under this definition. That there is a God and he did write the Bible. Or that it was inspired by him. That his word is perfect and without flaws. That Jesus is Gods only son and the only way to heaven.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 197.

#4. To: A K A Stone (#0)

That his word is perfect and without flaws.

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

I'm a heretic.

I don't want to be lumped in with people that call themselves christians.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-02   14:55:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Nonsense. Which version is the perfect one?

Why his version, of course. Need you even ask? LOL!

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-02-02   15:20:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   9:29:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Are you guys familiar with the historicity and translation history of the Bible?

Just ask because it doesn't sound like it.

Which version is the perfect one?

That is what I asked, because I am somewhat familiar with the translation history of the Bible.

So, since you are evidently so familiar with this, since you question my familiarity with it, I'll ask you which one is the perfect "inerrant" version?

Now I fully expect you to ignore that question by trying to distract by asking about the "Magna Carta for example? Do you believe that they mean what they say? If so, then why, in contrast? What about "ancient Egyptian writings?" Same questions. "...

You won't answer because you can't. That's the real reason why. Because your answer will lead to more questions that you will find somewhat uncomfortable to contemplate and will tend to piss you off.

Here it is again: which version is the perfect "inerrant" version?

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   10:26:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   10:27:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Well, sorry, I cannot sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you.

I'll take your answer to have been no then.

And quit getting so emotional. It's unbecoming.

It's a very simple question.

Which version of the Bible is the perfect inerrant version?

It only takes a one line response. No need to "sum up years of personal study in a single post on a thread for you." What a wonderful distraction that was. Very creative. But not unexpected.

See? I told you that you would not answer it. Perhaps you'll reconsider??? For the benefit of the others here? Do it for them, not for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   11:07:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   12:14:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

Well well well. What have we here?

BTW, your position has been made more than clear over the years.

Really? I didn't know I have been on this board for that long. How time flies!

We know that you disbelieve in the Living God

"We"?

and that will rarely if ever (never say never) provide much specific objective or otherwise hard data spawned by your personal knowledge or study of the Bible.

Answer my question and I will be happy to. I just need to know what the perfect version is.

So how is it that you're an expert on it/them?

I never said or hinted that I was an expert. Since when does it take an expert?

You continue to distract.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-03   12:50:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   13:34:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Then, what you'll notice is how easily explainable any perceived differences in the texts are reconciled.

Jeremiah 8:8 How can you say, "we are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

Jeremiah 23: 26-27 How long shall this be in teh heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? Yea, they are prophets of deceit in their own heart.

Luke 24:25 Then he (Jesus) said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart, to believe all that the prophets have spoken.

Ezekiel 14:9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a think, I the Lord have deceived the prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Scirpture is clear that man is far from infallible in translation.

Moreover, the Bible is rife with contradictions. Because a story is told by man, the telling has discrepencies from one to the next. This is obvious in the telling of the story of Jesus, for example.

Such as the telling of the Trinity, the bible actually confuses teh Godhead multiple times:

John 1:1 Jesus and God are one. John 1:14 Jesus is God incarnate. Mark 1: 1 Jesus is the Son of God. Acts 2:22 Jesus was a man approved by God. John 10:30 Jesus and the Father are one. John 14:28 The Father is greater than Jesus. John 3:17 Jesus does NOT judge or condemn. John 5: 27,30, Acts 10:42, Cirubtguabs 5:10, God the Father has passed it to Jesus to judge. John 8:15 Jesus does not judge mankind but God the Father does. John 9:39 Jesus came into the world to judge. John 12:47 Jesus did not judge mankind but God the Father does. John 5:22 God does NOT judge. Romans 2:2-5, Peter 1:17, Revelation 20: 12-13 God does judge. Jude 1:14-15, God judes with ten thousand of his saints. John 5:24 Believers DO NOT come into judgment. Mathew 12:36-37, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 9:27, 2 Timithy 4:1, All persons (believers and non-believers) come into judgement. John 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, ,his testimony is not true. John 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true. John 6:44 No one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father. John 10: 27-29 None of Jesus' followers will be lost. 1 Timothy 4:1 Some of them will be lost.

Apparently, there was NO harmony among Biblical writers. From this selection of scriputures, one cannot discern if there is or is not a Trinity. One must cherry pick to take a stance.

And this is just ONE example........I can provide hundreds more where one writer contradicts another. It's not even the differnces in the texts that cannot be reconciled but the text ITSELF when comparing one writer to the next.

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-03   14:20:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-03   14:49:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Please, allow me to ask however, are you sincerely interested in knowing, or are you simply throwing up stuff that you've heard (as it seems) and purely for purposes of arguing?

The above is trivial. I would have hoped that you would have come with far more difficult supposed "contradictions."

You, and PSUSA, among many others, will never understand the context and perspective until you seek from a truly seeking heart

In fact, I detect that you are being purely argumentative, and frankly, floating child's play arguments if you ask me and that have been addressed infinite times by others in the past ranging from the distant past to the modern past.

I know, but not based on some notion that the Bible is an infallible text.

As I stated before, I have HUNDREDS of Biblical contradictions up for discussion. The Trinity was posed because there is a divide within Christians regarding this matter, which I view as an obvious divide based upon contradictory texts posed by Biblical writers. If they are all receiving the Holy word of God, then why the contradiction, Eric? This is merely a way to avoid addressing the contradictions presented as you degrade the messenger and the scriptures presented by claiming that both are beneath your superior perceptions.

So, you are posing that your selection of texts is more clear and precise than the scriptures I offered for debate. Is this based solely on your choice? After you cherry pick are the other scriptures some how less relevant to the discussion?

Have you considered that PSUSA and I come to our understanding FROM THE HEART and not from Biblical text that is witten by humans and contradictory? You sure like to pass judgment on others, Eric. Do you know my heart? Do you know PSUSA's heart? No, you don't, and, in truth, the hearts of others are not for you to judge. The scriptures are clear on that issue.

As far as I'm concerned, a good Christian could discard all of the Bible save the Sermon on the Mount and have all the text necessary to be the kind of Christian Jesus came to show them was possible. However, most Christians discard the Sermon on the Mount, as this is a difficult path to embark upon, opting instead to banter about the rest of the contradictory text to justify their own perceptions.

Your detections are based on your perceptions, and both are wrong. So, according to you, the Trinity is child's play. You should send a memo to theologians who spend their lives disecting this matter. Merely the fact that the debate continues demonstrates validity in the argument.

Next, we can discuss the various ways in which writers of the Bible tell the masses that they can be saved. Unless you deem this matter also as child's play and beneath your self righteous indignation to address. Many contradictions on that issue, much debate in the distant and modern past right up to this current moment. Getting saved may just be child's play from your persepective, if so, just let me know.

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-03   15:19:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-07   10:53:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

"Hearts" are no objective. If God exists, and wants us to know about Him, then He sure can find a way, via man, or "rocks that would rise up and speak," even less sensical according to you, would/could/did do precisely that.

So, why should people accept only one text regarding God and what he wants us to know about Him? The Vedas precede the Bible, yet you discount them. Yet, these texts are living in the sense that the volume of Vedas continues to grow to this day. These texts reveal much about the spirit in relation to time and quantum physics--did God not reveal such awesome information or was it just multiple coincidences? The Dammapada precedes the New Testament and is quite similar to the Sermon on the Mount--God inspired or again a big ol' happenstance? The Mayans are viewed as savages, yet God provided them with a calandar far superior to Western thinkers that is accurate to a third of a second. They also knew of all the outer planets long before Western "discovery" of them. Again, God inspired or simply good luck? Shall you claim to know all the ways in which God reveals himself?

Does God not and has He not revealed Himself and what he wants for all humans? Or is this God so cold as to simply banish these souls to hell for lack of knowledge? Could God be capable of revealing Himself in multiple ways, as is evident in the various perspectives of the 12 diciples?

Yes, He uses man....but this is an imperfect vessel. Do you not grasp this point? Even in the Bible, God manifests Himself to the people of Israel and even in His presense they cannot abide by what He wants. How much more can you? To attempt to understand the OT, one must also read the Kabballah--have you read that text?

You have not rendered my argument moot. Can God be perfect and man imperfect? If so, how can man perfectly scribe what He wants? We haven't even broached what has been lost in translations for the original languages to fit into English.

My argument is not that God does not exist, nor that he doesn't want us to know about Him. He surely exists and he surely wants us to know him. My argument is that MAN, being imperfect, is incapable of PERFECT translation and PERFECT telling of events, which naturally leads to confusion and contradiction. My argument is solely based on your contention that the Bible is perfect and infallible when transcribed and translated by imperfect humans.

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-07   12:03:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-07   16:34:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#200. To: Eric Stratton (#197)

You've made your mind up and have already predetermined that any answer that I give you will be inadequate.

Actually, I did want to know your thoughts on the matter......but I'm not suprised you opt for diversion in lieu of discourse. That's been your MO all along this thread.

I'm sure you can use your precious time to carry on with discussing my short comings with Stone since that is so very productive.

Seems to me if you had firm answers, then you would simply offer them when asked. But, it's moot to share your knowlege. Wouldn't want you to waste your time with any testimony to your faith or you knowledge. Especially, when you can use your time to discuss my foolishness with Stone. : )

abraxas  posted on  2010-02-07 16:43:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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