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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Antonin Scalia: No right to secede
Source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com
URL Source: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44 ... to-sec.html?hpid=news-col-blog
Published: Feb 17, 2010
Author: Robert Barnes
Post Date: 2010-02-17 15:49:59 by freepatriot32
Ping List: *libertarians*     Subscribe to *libertarians*
Keywords: Antonin Scalia, secede, us constitution, Libertarians
Views: 183
Comments: 15

Is there a right to secede from the Union, or did the Civil War settle that?

Certain Tea Partiers have raised the possibility of getting out while the getting's good, setting off a round of debate on legal blogs. The more cerebral theorists at the smart legal blog The Volokh Conspiracy question whether such a right exists.

Enter a New York personal injury lawyer, and Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

The lawyer, Eric Turkewitz, says his brother Dan, a screenwriter, put just such a question to all of the Supreme Court justices in 2006 -- he was working on an idea about Maine leaving the U.S.and a big showdown at the Supreme Court -- and Scalia responded. His answer was no:

"I am afraid I cannot be of much help with your problem, principally because I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court. To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, "one Nation, indivisible.") Secondly, I find it difficult to envision who the parties to this lawsuit might be. Is the State suing the United States for a declaratory judgment? But the United States cannot be sued without its consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit.

I am sure that poetic license can overcome all that -- but you do not need legal advice for that. Good luck with your screenplay."

So that's one vote. But unlikely to end the debate. Subscribe to *libertarians*

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#1. To: All, *Jack-Booted Thugs* (#0)

ping

Want to look at a new way to make some moola?click here and enter code 4d6a55744e5451354e7a673d-2

freepatriot32  posted on  2010-02-17   15:50:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

bite me, tony.

Lod  posted on  2010-02-17   15:54:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: freepatriot32 (#0) (Edited)

The gun will make the final decision and Scalia and the rest of this corrupt government will be gone.

Let us have done with all of them.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-17   16:30:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

The only ability to secede will be just the same as the last try.

But who knows, it might come out different.

ndcorup  posted on  2010-02-17   17:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: ndcorup. all (#4)

This time, Texas would have the entire world, with the exception of zion, coming to assist.

Lod  posted on  2010-02-17   17:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

While I disagree with Scalia regarding secession from the "union" of the several states, he may be right concerning the federal (reserve bank) government.

The STATES have contracted away their sovereignty through a myriad of federal programs.

Prior to the Federal Reserve Act, no political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American People into one common mass of slaves. Yet, this is exactly what has happened under Social Security, by creating a revenue base for the collection of interest on a fictitious national debt owed to the Federal Reserve banks, in other words, slavery to the national debt under the so-called 14th Amendment.

noone222  posted on  2010-02-17   18:23:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Cynicom (#3)

The gun will make the final decision and Scalia and the rest of this corrupt government will be gone.

Let us have done with all of them.

My sentiments exactly. We are a nation or 300 plus million that is being pushed around by by less than 600 embiciles. Some day TSWHTF. Bring rope!

LACUMO  posted on  2010-02-17   18:51:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Lod (#2)

bite me, tony.

With the next civil war, let us not leave any doubt.

LACUMO  posted on  2010-02-17   18:54:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

Scalia is full of $#it (to put it bluntly). Of course the people have the right to secede. If you have the right to make a compact, or contract, you have the right to rescind it if the other party violates the provisions of said compact/contract. You don't need a Supreme Court ho in a black skirt to tell you that.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-02-17   19:56:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.

Since when did the result of a war set a legal precedent? And the South never petitioned any court for permission to secede so far as I've ever heard, so the case was never legally tried.

And if war does set a precedent, all it takes to "reset" the precedent is another war (with a different result).

But I would agree that if the question ever reached the USSC, they'd vote in favor of forced unionship. There's no way they'd do otherwise.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-02-17   22:08:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#10)

And if war does set a precedent, all it takes to "reset" the precedent is another war (with a different result).

That makes insurrection a right, one which governments have no legal standing to resist. To the victor goes the spoils shall be the whole of the law...

Where have I heard this before?

In 2007, the FBI reported on concern about white supremacists recruiting soldiers, saying "hundreds" of neo-Nazis were in the active military. But in April, a Department of Homeland Security report on extremism that reiterated much the same point was widely criticized by veterans groups and some conservative politicians as being unpatriotic, leading the Justice Department to retract the DHS report.

Critics acknowledge that extremism in the Army is a touchy political subject.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-02-17   22:13:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Pinguinite, Everyone reading this (#10)

Please remember, there was never any surrender.

Just an end to the conflict.

Lod  posted on  2010-02-17   22:19:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: James Deffenbach (#9)

Scalia is full of $#it (to put it bluntly). Of course the people have the right to secede. If you have the right to make a compact, or contract, you have the right to rescind it if the other party violates the provisions of said compact/contract. You don't need a Supreme Court ho in a black skirt to tell you that.

Yes sir, indeed.

Excellent rendition of the truth.

All of the scum that rise to the top in politics fear only one thing, that is, THE WRATH OF THE MASSES.

The elite can surround themselves with Gestapo with cannons but they ALWAYS live in fear, fear that one day the unseen hand will stretch forth and take their life away.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-18   9:10:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Cynicom (#13)

Excellent rendition of the truth.

Thank you kindly.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-02-18   9:20:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: freepatriot32 (#0)

The practice now is constantly to cite "international law" precedents, although I think it is being done more by people on the other side of the political specrum.

Unfortunately for Justice Scalia, the United States and its global enforcement arm known as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, not only recognized a right of secession, but went to war in the former Yugoslavia, more than once, in the 1990s, most notoriously in Kosovo, to show those stuffed shirts at the United Nations Security Council who were against secession who's in charge.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2010-02-18   9:20:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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