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Title: Supreme Court scrutinizes state, local gun control
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100228/D9E4VH083.html
Published: Feb 28, 2010
Author: MARK SHERMAN
Post Date: 2010-02-28 08:53:52 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 271
Comments: 25

Supreme Court scrutinizes state, local gun control

WASHINGTON (AP) - Gun control advocates think, if not pray, they can win by losing when the Supreme Court decides whether the constitutional right to possess guns serves as a check on state and local regulation of firearms.

The justices will be deciding whether the Second Amendment - like much of the rest of the Bill of Rights - applies to states as well as the federal government. It's widely believed they will say it does.

But even if the court strikes down handgun bans in Chicago and its suburb of Oak Park, Ill., that are at issue in the argument to be heard Tuesday, it could signal that less severe rules or limits on guns are permissible.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is urging the court not to do anything that would prevent state and local governments "from enacting the reasonable laws they desire and need to protect their families and communities from gun violence."

By some estimates, about 90 million people in the U.S. own a total of some 200 million guns.

Roughly 30,000 people in the United States died each year from guns; more than half of them are suicides. An additional 70,000 are wounded.

The new lawsuits were begun almost immediately after the court's blockbuster ruling in 2008 that struck down the District of Columbia's handgun ban. In that case, the court ruled for the first time that individuals have a right keep guns for self-defense and other purposes. Because the nation's capital is a federal enclave, that ruling applied only to federal laws.

The challenges to the Chicago area laws, which are strikingly similar to the Washington law, are part of an aggressive push by gun rights proponents in the courts and state legislatures.

Courts are considering many gun laws following the justice's 2008 decision. Massachusetts' highest state court is examining the validity of a state law requiring gun owners to lock weapons in their homes.

Two federal appeals courts have raised questions about gun possession convictions of people who previously had been convicted of domestic violence misdemeanors. A suit in Washington challenges the capital's ban on carrying loaded guns on public streets.

Lawmakers in several states are pushing for proposals favored by the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups. The Virginia Legislature is considering repealing a law that limits handgun purchases to one a month. That law was enacted in 1993 because Virginia was the No. 1 supplier of guns used in crimes in other states. A separate proposal in Virginia would allow people with a concealed-weapon permit to take hidden guns into restaurants that sell alcohol, as long as those patrons don't drink.

Chicago is defending its gun laws at the high court. Mayor Richard Daley said a ruling against his city would spawn even more suits nationwide and lead to more gun violence.

"How many more of our citizens must needlessly die because guns are too easily available in our society?" Daley said at a Washington news conference last week that also included the parents of a Chicago teenager who was shot on a bus as he headed home from school.

Annette Nance-Holt said her only child, 16-year-old Blair Holt, shielded his friend when a gang member boarded a bus and began shooting at rival gang members.

"You might ask, 'What good is Chicago's handgun law if so many of our young people are still being shot?'" Nance-Holt said. "All I can say is, imagine how many more would be if the law were not there."

Gun rights advocates say such killings should serve as reminders that handgun bans and other gun laws do nothing to protect people who obey the law.

Indeed, 76-year-old Otis McDonald said he joined the suit in Chicago because he wants a handgun at home to protect himself from gangs.

The thrust of the legal arguments in the case is over how the Supreme Court might apply the Second Amendment to states and cities.

In earlier cases applying parts of the Bill of Rights to the states, the court has done so by using the due process clause of the 14th Amendment, passed in the wake of the Civil War to ensure the rights of newly freed slaves.

The court also has relied on that same clause - "no state shall deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law" - in cases that established a woman's right to an abortion and knocked down state laws against interracial marriage and gay sex.

This is the approach the NRA favors.

But many conservative and legal scholars - as well as the Chicago challengers - want the court to employ another part of the 14th amendment, forbidding a state to make or enforce any law "which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States."

They argue this clause was intended as a broad guarantee of the civil rights of the former slaves, but that a Supreme Court decision in 1873 effectively blocked its use.

Breathing new life into the "privileges or immunities" clause might allow for new arguments to shore up other rights, including abortion and property rights, these scholars say.

This approach might enable challenges to arcane state laws that limit economic competition, said Clark M. Neily III of the public interest law firm Institute for Justice. He pointed to a Louisiana law that protects existing florists by requiring a license before someone can arrange or sell flowers. The licensing exam is graded by florists, he noted.

"No reasonable person thinks that law has a legitimate purpose," Neily said. But he said, "Right now, once you get a law like this on the books, it's almost impossible to get rid of."

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#1. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Annette Nance-Holt said her only child, 16-year-old Blair Holt, shielded his friend when a gang member boarded a bus and began shooting at rival gang members.

Aww shucks !

Prior to the Federal Reserve Act, no political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American People into one common mass of slaves. Yet, this is exactly what has happened under Social Security, by creating a revenue base for the collection of interest on a fictitious national debt owed to the Federal Reserve banks, in other words, slavery to the national debt under the so-called 14th Amendment.

noone222  posted on  2010-02-28   9:42:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: noone222 (#1)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-28   9:59:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Eric Stratton (#2)

And think too, all those gang members that are upstanding members of the NRA and that have permits for all of those handguns and automatic weapons

Gang wars are natures way of purifying the gene pool !

Prior to the Federal Reserve Act, no political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American People into one common mass of slaves. Yet, this is exactly what has happened under Social Security, by creating a revenue base for the collection of interest on a fictitious national debt owed to the Federal Reserve banks, in other words, slavery to the national debt under the so-called 14th Amendment.

noone222  posted on  2010-02-28   10:05:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: noone222 (#3)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-02-28   10:13:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: noone222 (#1)

Annette Nance-Holt said her only child, 16-year-old Blair Holt, shielded his friend when a gang member boarded a bus and began shooting at rival gang members.

The heroics of unarmed sheeple is awe inspiring, not to mention fucking dopey. If this is what the anti-gunners offer as argument for limitations of the 2nd, we're in great shape.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-28   10:18:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull (#5)

The drivers carry guns that drag the olde idiots back and forth to work, and while they are there, armed guards protect them all day.

The rest of you peons dont need guns cause you are nobody.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-28   10:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull (#5)

The heroics of unarmed sheeple is awe inspiring,

Wars and dumb laws are designed to remove the good people from the gene pool.


The only real restraint on gummints is people who say "live free or die" ... and mean it. - Enderby

Critter  posted on  2010-02-28   10:34:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Hi Boys & Girls,

FYI - If your rights under the 14th (found in title 48) may be "incorporated", then they can just as easily be UNINCORPORATED (via the Pat Act for example). Simply put, the State or Fed decides what your "rights" are or aren't and this was never a part of an American's Birthright.

See below as SCOTUS has made clear that a "Citizen of a State" (never to confused with a Proletarian/14th Amendment citizen/subject of the Federal Government) rights PREEXIST any Constitution as these rights are God Given or Inalienable:

"Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation. This meaning is strongly confirmed by the historical background of the Second Amendment. We look to this because it has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right. The very text of the Second Amendment implicitly recognizes the pre-existence of the right and declares only that it 'shall not be infringed.' As we said in United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553 (1876), '[t]his is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.'" -District of Columbia, et al., Petitioners v. Dick Anthony Heller. 554 U.S. ____ (2008), page 19.

Yours in Observing 14th Amendment citizens as America's Serf Class,

P.H.

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2010-02-28   10:40:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: PatrickHenry (#8)

Yours in Observing 14th Amendment citizens as America's Serf Class,

Anyone possessing a SSN belongs to this serf class.

[See Ripley's Believe it or Not].

Prior to the Federal Reserve Act, no political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American People into one common mass of slaves. Yet, this is exactly what has happened under Social Security, by creating a revenue base for the collection of interest on a fictitious national debt owed to the Federal Reserve banks, in other words, slavery to the national debt under the so-called 14th Amendment.

noone222  posted on  2010-02-28   10:57:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Critter, Cynicom (#7)

Wars and dumb laws are designed to remove the good people from the gene pool.

It's an interesting question whether modern wars cull the gene pool or weaken it. It's apparent that high explosives can kill the quick and the slow with equal effectiveness. When smart bombs hit a building there's nothing in genetic endowment to affect the outcome. There are only the unlucky.

Ancient warfare OTOH that depended on muscle power and beast power to get the job done and would seem to have favored the smart and the strong.

Then again, everyone I have known that survived the last Great Unpleasantness (their numbers are shrinking every day) seems to be of above average robustness and intelligence. That's just personal anecdotal evidence though.

Be interested in what Cyni thinks about this. I might look into this when I get time.

randge  posted on  2010-02-28   11:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: randge (#10)

Ancient warfare OTOH that depended on muscle power and beast power to get the job done and would seem to have favored the smart and the strong.

It has always favored "a class of people".

People from all strata of social life die in wars, the telling part is that we need to look at the percentages and odds.

For instance...

My graduating class of 13 males, the week the Korean war began shows this.

Of the top six, smartest and socially acceptable males, NONE served in the military. All were given preferred status because they were college bound, one was a farmer, or they were 4F.

Of the lower class socially, no 4Fs, no exemptions, we all went. There are two of us left.

The top social strata are all alive and well except one, died of cancer a few years ago. One was a doctor, one engineer, one school administrator, the farmer is a multi millionaire, the other a banker.

Now judge the odds and draw conclusions.

At a recent class reunion, they wanted everyone to be there, two would not acknowledge the invitation. Guess who they were?

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-28   12:21:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#11)

Thanks for the class analysis, Cyni. Very interesting.

But does modern warfare tend to weed out the slower and the weaker, or the faster, smarter and stronger?

randge  posted on  2010-02-28   12:37:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: noone222 (#9)

Anyone possessing a SSN belongs to this serf class.

The above observation is 100% correct.

If one's status (Citizen of a State) makes him/her ineligible for the SS Serf number, then he/she is also ineligible (immune or otherwise exempt) for the 1040 tax (requiring said SS Serf #), all statutory so-called law (including the 50 Titles of the USC) that turn Natural Rights into statutory privileges.

Yours in Observing SS Serfdom Originating from Bismark's Marxist/Socialist Prussia (detailed in THE NEW SLAVERY, Nickerson 1947),

P.H.

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2010-02-28   13:13:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: PatrickHenry (#13)

THE NEW SLAVERY, Nickerson 1947),

Do tell. Do you think this book might be available through the library ?

Prior to the Federal Reserve Act, no political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American People into one common mass of slaves. Yet, this is exactly what has happened under Social Security, by creating a revenue base for the collection of interest on a fictitious national debt owed to the Federal Reserve banks, in other words, slavery to the national debt under the so-called 14th Amendment.

noone222  posted on  2010-02-28   13:26:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: randge (#12)

But does modern warfare tend to weed out the slower and the weaker, or the faster, smarter and stronger?

See, you left out the most important ingredients.

How about the basic ingredients that transcends all of your categories?

Privileged and unprivileged encompass all. This world is all about class, always has been and always will be.

If you are "in" your odds of survival are much better than if you are "out". Intelligence, weak, strong or stupid is found all over the class strata.

Man has always been a social climber, trying to get above his equals. It is a fantasy world because in the end it means nothing, the grim reaper hauls you away just like everyone else.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-28   13:34:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Jethro Tull (#0) (Edited)

You know, JT? Here is what I am hoping for: A total ban. Ban them all, because I dont give 2 shits what the SCROTUM (That is dyslexian for SCOTUS) says. Let's get this show on the road!

Ban them, give us a week to turn them in, and in 1 or 2 weeks there will not be a pig of any kind (except for the bacon-producing kinds) left alive in this country. We'll kill them all. Let's finish it now.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-28   13:50:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom (#15)

We are all beasts then, Cynicom??

randge  posted on  2010-02-28   14:08:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: randge (#17)

We are all beasts then, Cynicom??

Essentially, yes.

Oddly enough there are times, places and events, that bring out the very best in human nature.

Watch this, see two humans rise above all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXSQ9YGQvOI

Cynicom  posted on  2010-02-28   14:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: noone222 (#14)

Do you think this book might be available through the library ?

Hi noone222,

This book was a "lucky find" for me when researching the nexus of the purported 14th amendment, Scott v Sanford and Slavery.

Nickerson makes it clear that the Welfare programs developed by Bismark & Marx created a new serf "status" first in Prussia, later in the U.S. under FDR and Great Britain simultaneously (indicating collusion).

Great read for all Freedom Lovers that want to understand the history and genesis of modern Slavery.

From the book jacket:

THE NEW SLAVERY By Hoffman Nickerson This is a complete dossier on slavery as it exists in the world today, with particular emphasis on forced labor in Soviet Russia. The author states that Russia's forced-labor system is nothing less than the latest resurgence of an ancient evil that man has been trying to get rid of for hundreds of years. Mr. Nickerson traces the history of slavery since pagan times, when it was universal. It was temporarily dissolved during the Middle Ages, then returned to Christendom with the use of Negroes as chattels. Scarcely had this been done away with in the nineteenth century, the author says, when it was reinstated by the followers of Bismarck and Marx.

The author also warns that the Western civilization is now reinfected with the initial stages of the slavery disease, with the advent of recent "welfare" legislation and the consequent loss of personal responsibility.

HOFFMAN NICKERSON is the author' of a distinguished list of books which includes Arms and Policy, The Armed Horde, Can We Limit War?, The American Rich, The Turning Point of the Revolution: Bourgoyne in America, and The Inquisition: A Study in Its Establishment. He has served in the New York State AssCmbly, on the Inter-Allied Commission in Belgium after World War I, and in the United States Army during both wars.

8 used from $9.92

http://www.amazon.com/new-slavery-Hoffman-Nickerson/dp/B0007EJ02I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267386327&sr=1-1

Warm Regards,

P.H.

In effect, it’s (The Holacaust Inc.) become like a grotesque doll wielded by witch doctors, used to keep individuals from asking too many questions, from thinking for themselves and stepping out of line.

PatrickHenry  posted on  2010-02-28   14:59:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

it could signal that less severe rules or limits on guns are permissible.

my GOD given right keep and bear arms does not allow for varying degrees of infringement, in fact it allows for no infringement what so ever.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-02-28   15:55:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: IRTorqued, PSUSA, All (#20)

my GOD given right keep and bear arms does not allow for varying degrees of infringement, in fact it allows for no infringement what so ever.

Playing devil's advocate here..... are actively hallucinating schizophrenics deserving of these GOD given rights, or would it be wise for a society to keep guns away from open psychotics for the safety of themselves and others?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-28   19:50:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

Playing devil's advocate here..... are actively hallucinating schizophrenics deserving of these GOD given rights, or would it be wise for a society to keep guns away from open psychotics for the safety of themselves and others?

I'd say that they deserve to be treated. I don't know of anyone that says they deserve to have in their possession any firearms.

From what I understand about hallucinations, they know they are hallucinating. I could be wrong about that though.I just remember reading something about that.

I've been around some careless but otherwise sane people with guns. They can be scary too. In fact, most of my scary encounters of all kinds in life have been with sane, yet stupid, people. I've only been around obviously mentally ill people a few times and they were rather harmless.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-28   20:16:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: PSUSA (#22)

I don't know of anyone that says they deserve to have in their possession any firearms.

Gotcha, just testing the water since I've had some battles royal with certain big Ls and others who apparently have never met truly evil, crazy people. Guns, in cases as I mention, should be made unavailable.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-02-28   20:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Jethro Tull (#23) (Edited)

I knew there had to be a reason you would ask a question like that. ;)

I've been around a couple people that I somehow knew were evil the first second I saw them. And a few mentally ill. And I got fooled once by a fucker that murdered an employee of mine then killed himself.

I just never dealt with it day after day like you probably did.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Live free or die kill ~~ Me

PSUSA  posted on  2010-02-28   21:25:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

why, is that what you were disarmed for?


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-03-01   21:38:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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