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Title: Video Shot by Pilot Flying Along side several Chemtrail Planes
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Published: Mar 13, 2010
Author: kevin604bc
Post Date: 2010-03-13 16:18:34 by wudidiz
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Comments: 715
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#198. To: Original_Intent (#197)
(Edited)
here's another equation for the combustion of kerosene: 2C12H26 (l) + 37O2(g) ---> 24CO2(g) + 26H2O(g) [AH.rxn = -1.50 x104 kJ] so it looks like we take two molecules of kerosene and 37 molecules of O2 oxygen, then burn them to get 24 molecules of co2 and 26 molecules of water. now then, you can plug in the atomic weights and densities and all that and calculate how much water, in volume of liquid water, you get from a gallon of kerosene.
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails". neat how that works, huh?
The proper formula is as follows; C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) → 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); Δ H° = -7513 kJ And the result is in units of energy (ie. energy produced by the combustion), not mass.
but really, the operative thing here is that not enough water is produced from the total fuel capacity of a 747 to fly a little over 1000 miles if your claims on contrail density are correct.
i will explain one more time: the fuel aboard the aircraft combines, during combustion, with air in the atmosphere to produce more mass, after combustion, than is carried on the airplane.
You certainly think you're convincing people here with your smoke and mirrors, eh? The fact is, it is UNKNOWN what the CHEMTRAILS consist of, and it may well not be water vapor. If they were, then there wouldn't be any problem, but it wouldn't make sense to go to the expense of producing water based trails DELIBERATELY. Other gases react differently than water, such as CO2 as it melts from dry ice to gas, or various other fogs created for stage events for instance. I'm sure there are a few other fogs that can be created that have nothing to do with water vapor, and utilize much less material than that needed to form REGULAR contrails.
apparently every molecule of kerosene grabs 16 and a half molecules of O2 out of the atmosphere during combustion. since kerosene has more hydrogen in it than gasoline, and the hydrogen combines with atmospheric oxygen to form water, kerosene produces more water than gasoline does, and even produces more volume of water than the original volume of kerosene. now that's just how it is, and no amount of ignorance can obscure that fact.
good. we're making headway.
You have already said that. Thing is, there is a very slight difference between the original mass of fuel and the final mass of water, under COMPLETE and CLEAN combustion. Even WITH that in mind, your claims don't add up.
now then, seeing as how "chemtrails" are such a dire, if undocumented threat to human life, why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
Thing is, you were trying to equate the mass required to form CHEMTRAILS with that required to lay down 5 miles of flame retardant powder. YOU started this BS with that absurd claim, and your numbers STILL don't add up in terms of fuel required to create REGULAR contrails if the contrail density is as you claim. But again, that is just a non-sequitor you tossed out to confuse the discussion.
Call your nearest Air Force base and ask them.
if a 747, loaded with 48,000 gallons of fuel, burns a gallon a second (while producing a little over a gallon of water in that same second), then the 747 will have enough fuel to run for 13 hours. if the 747 burns a gallon a second, it burns 60 gallons a minute, or 3600 gallons an hour. if it burns 3600 gallons of kerosene an hour, that means it's also producing 3600 gallons of water per hour, or about 14.4 tons of water per hour. that water, as water vapor, spreads out in the atmosphere as it cools, condenses and freezes in tiny droplets that are visible as a cloud of condensation, aka contrails. what's so hard to understand about all that?
you know, people can bicker back and forth about this until time ends. the simple fact of the matter is that vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal, and it's beyond absurd, borderline retarded for anyone to even suggest so. debate over. next?
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 Call your nearest Air Force base and ask them. in other words, you cant explain why, of the thousands of bizjets available, nobody cares enough about "chemtrails" rent a jet and go up and take a sample.
yup, you're right. if god had meant us to fly, he'd have given us rotorblades.
neat how that works, huh? Spoken like a true "B" Student in H.S. General Science leaving out the key component provision i.e., at a specified altitude and temperature because ALL of the conditions have to be met for natural contrails to form. Keep trying though I just love the way you wipe the drool off your chin at each misstep. Just try not to get it on the carpet. K'?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
you know, people can bicker back and forth about this until time ends. the simple fact of the matter is that vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal, and it's beyond absurd, borderline retarded for anyone to even suggest so. debate over. next? Thank you, and agreed. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I don't personally know all the people who own business jets, so I can't speak for them. Go ask them, not me.
dont bother posting any more pictures of "chemtrails" unless you also post the pressure altitude, temperature and relative humidity of the air mass the airplane was flying through.
I'll post whatever I damn well please and allow the objective readers who have an open MIND to judge the available data based on their own observations. Your continually reliance on one absurdity after another is amusing though.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And what does any of that have to do with chemtrails? Basically, you're talking about water, and neither you nor I have any idea what those chemtrails TRULY consist of. And BTW, I already did the fairly straightforward analysis of what would be required in terms of fuel if the water density was a little over 1 gallon per 7000 cubic feet, and you later posted that it was closer to what, 1 gallon per 16,000 cubic feet. So my original result was you'd have to burn 528 gallons of fuel per mile to produce the 1 gallon per 7000 cubic foot density, so for 16,000 cubic feet, it'd be 528 / (16/7) or 231 gallons per mile, yet a 747 only burns 5 gallons per mile. In essence, you are full of shit.
if you cant prove the airplane was outside the appleman chart, then you're wasting your time, and you're wasting the time of people who are honestly trying to understand contrails.
in the absence of any proof of "chemtrail's" existence, in the presence of accepted explanations for observed contrails, including supposed "chemtrails", maybe we could do a little hacking at this problem with occam's razor.
that is truly ther extent of the depth that i get into such things. vomit colored tic tac toe grids? gimme a break. it's the devil people again, up to no good. simple as that.
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 And as I mentioned earlier, I don't know of many or any business jet owners who would attempt to get his pilot to chase a military plane to sniff it's trail, and even if they DID, how exactly do you think they'd take the sample? Unless it's a specialized research plane with sophisticated sampling equipment, you can't collect the sample. You can't just stick your hand out the window at 40,000 feet altitude or so and grab a paper bag of it...
you guys cant post any proof of support infrastructure, you cant explain why none of your "chemtrail" fans are willing to rent a plane and take samples. you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose. you cant estimate how many observed contrails are, in fact, "chemtrails", you cant explain why you cant come up with airtight, irrefutable proof of "chemtrails" existence. all you can do is post pictures of uncertain provenance, pictures completely lacking in pertinent flight data.
So if this phenomena only recently started occuring in the 90's, and jets have been flying since the 40's or 50's, then Occam's razor dictates it's not a normal contrail. Find me ANY image prior to 1990 of anything that looks like what is called a CHEMTRAIL. Matter of fact, I HAVE seen REGULAR jets leaving CONTRAILS in the same sky as those leaving CHEMTRAILS, and flying roughly in the same airspace and altitude, not long before or after the chemtrail jet laid it's spray. So it IS something different, whether you personally acknowledge the fact or not.
People used to ridicule early scientists who tried to inform the world that many diseases were caused by germs, since nobody could see them, and nobody could show motality studies of what those germs caused, since people didn't believe they existed in the first place. Try again.
sorry. you are an unreliable witness, especially in absence of proof, and most especially given your ignorance of basic chemistry.
Just do a bit of Googling and you can find MANY instances of respiratory illness and flu-like symptoms, whose increased incidence coincides with heavy chemtrail activity.
As are you, especially since you refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that CHEMTRAILS did NOT exist prior to the 1990's. As I said, find me ANY picture from before that time which shows contrail formations similar to that seen today in CHEMTRAIL formations.
But that was a Tuesday and we all know that 747's bank left on Wednesday. /gruntresonance
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
you guys dont seem to have any idea of the scale of this supposed "chemtrail" operation. if the operation had any scale to it at all, wouldnt there be paper trails, too? wouldnt there be ground support equipment? wouldnt there be mechanics who installed the machinery on the airplanes? wouldnt there be lab workers who fabricated whatever it is that's supposedly being sprayed? wouldnt there be people who, out of a sense of self-preservation, would blow a whistle? and what about the people making money on this "chemtrail" industry? wouldnt they be well-served to hire a jet to take conclusive samples, witnessed by people of unimpeachable character?
a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet... Now if you look at a trail, whether it's a regular contrail or a chemtrail, it is 3 dimensional, is it not? Cubic feet is a measure of volume (ie. 3 dimensional space) buck, in case you didn't know. The thing is, the LENGTH is MUCH greater than the circular cross section, where the circular cross section of a regular contrail might be say 30 feet in diameter. Since area of a circle is Pi * (radius)Squared, or Pi * (diameter/2)Squared, then 3.14 * (15)Squared is 706.5 square feet. So every 10 feet of length gives you 7065 cubic feet of water vapor, from what he claims, in the area of what he claims as "thousands of cubic feet per gallon". SO, if this were true, and since there are 5280 feet in a mile, then there would have to be 528 gallons of water per mile, or 2640 gallons in five miles. If the water comes from the jet fuel, and even IF there was a 100% conversion of jet fuel to water (which of course there isn't), then the jet would burn 2650 gallons of fuel every 5 miles. In order to fly 500 miles, it'd have to burn 265,000 gallons of fuel. Jets can fly THOUSANDS of miles, yet a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel, and only consumes about 5 gallons per mile, not 528 or more. See where this is going? Wow, I never expected this thread to get more than a few comments. I'm no scientist, that's for sure. After grade 12 chemistry I swore to never take a science class again. In university they made me take 1 science course in the first year so I took the one psychology course that qualified as a science course. I'm relying on simple knowledge and a reasonably good memory (they weren't around 20 years ago) to know that chemtrails stretching across the sky and spreading into a thin white haze are not contrails. I tend to agree with randge that ground resonance is not a shill. If he is he's a lousy one. Although he uses disinfo-like arguing tactics, I think he's just doing that because he's made up his mind already and that's the only way he can argue his point. More disturbing to me than the actual chemtrails themselves is the public reaction or non-reaction to them by those who think they're contrails. "Oh foolish man, what can you not be made to believe?" - Adam Weishaupt
These are fairly sensible questions although you might try approaching the issue with an open mind since you seem relatively new to it and uninformed about it. “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation” (most popularly attributed to Herbert Spencer) you guys dont seem to have any idea of the scale of this supposed "chemtrail" operation. It's huge. if the operation had any scale to it at all, wouldnt there be paper trails, too? There are. wouldnt there be ground support equipment? There must be. wouldnt there be mechanics who installed the machinery on the airplanes? Of course. wouldnt there be lab workers who fabricated whatever it is that's supposedly being sprayed? Probably at least some. wouldnt there be people who, out of a sense of self-preservation, would blow a whistle? Not necessarily, although some have. and what about the people making money on this "chemtrail" industry? The military industrial complex, oil industry and aluminum manufacturers (who make money off fluoride being put in water and toothpaste?) wouldnt they be well-served to hire a jet to take conclusive samples, witnessed by people of unimpeachable character? People have done that if I remember right.
Forgot to ping you to the last two posts.
seems to me you'd have real evidence of such a "huge" operation, other than photographs that give people no clue as to the altitude of the airplane, or the temperature and humidity of the air mass at that altitude. please post documentary evidence of "chemtrail" spray operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please post evidence of support machinery used in "chemtrail" operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please post verifiable testimony from mechanics who are involved in installing and/or maintaining "chemtrail" equipment on airplanes or ground support machinery, other than that used in normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please tell us what chemicals are being sprayed, and why they're being sprayed, please post evidence of chemical fabrication labs, please post testimony from chemists involved in fabricating the chemicals used in "chemtrail" operations. please explain why people involved in the "huge" "chemtrail" industry are so unconcerned about their own well-being that they are not blowing whistles, left, right and center. the people making money of the supposed "chemtrail" operation are, in the absence of any evidence of "chemtrails" existence, people selling patent medicines to cure "chemtrail" hypochondfiacs, and people who sell website ads to people who prey on gullible "chemtrail" believers. please post evidence obtained by a "chemtrail" profiteer hiring a jet, taking samples of "chemtrails" while scrupulously following rules of evidence, and submitting those samples to a reputable lab.
Why should I?
...to prove you can? *shrug*
And what if I don't?
Comments (239 - 715) not displayed.
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#199. To: Original_Intent (#197)
(Edited)
#200. To: groundresonance (#191)
C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#201. To: groundresonance (#199)
but really, the operative thing here
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: FormerLurker (#201)
the operative thing here is that not enough water is produced from the total fuel capacity of a 747 to fly a little over 1000 miles if your claims on contrail density are correct.
#203. To: groundresonance (#199)
neat how that works, huh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: FormerLurker (#201)
#205. To: FormerLurker (#203)
is UNKNOWN what the CHEMTRAILS consist of
#206. To: groundresonance (#202)
i will explain one more time: the fuel aboard the aircraft combines, during combustion, with air in the atmosphere to produce more mass, after combustion, than is carried on the airplane.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#207. To: FormerLurker (#203)
#208. To: groundresonance (#205)
we're making headway.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#209. To: groundresonance (#207)
why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#210. To: FormerLurker (#206)
your claims don't add up
#211. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz, formerlurker (#13)
Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored:
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#212. To: FormerLurker (#209)
(Edited)
why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
#213. To: Artisan (#211)
(Edited)
vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal
#214. To: groundresonance (#199)
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails".
#215. To: Artisan, wudidiz, formerlurker (#211)
Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored:
#216. To: groundresonance (#212)
in other words, you cant explain why
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#217. To: Original_Intent (#214)
a specified altitude and temperature
#218. To: groundresonance (#217)
#219. To: groundresonance (#210)
what's so hard to understand about all that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: Original_Intent (#218)
I'll post whatever I damn well please
#221. To: FormerLurker (#219)
neither you nor I have any idea what those chemtrails TRULY consist of.
#222. To: Original_Intent (#215)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#223. To: groundresonance (#212)
in other words, you cant explain why, of the thousands of bizjets available, nobody cares enough about "chemtrails" rent a jet and go up and take a sample.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#224. To: Original_Intent (#218)
(Edited)
#225. To: groundresonance (#221)
maybe we could do a little hacking at this problem with occam's razor
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#226. To: groundresonance (#224)
you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: FormerLurker (#225)
HAVE seen REGULAR jets leaving CONTRAILS in the same sky as those leaving CHEMTRAILS
#228. To: groundresonance (#224)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#229. To: groundresonance (#227)
you are an unreliable witness
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#230. To: FormerLurker (#229)
(Edited)
As are you, especially since you refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that CHEMTRAILS did NOT exist prior to the 1990's. As I said, find me ANY picture from before that time which shows contrail formations similar to that seen today in CHEMTRAIL formations.
#231. To: FormerLurker (#226)
#232. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, ground resonance, buckeroo, all (#151)
Did or did not groundresonance state the following?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#233. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, buckeroo, all (#231)
(Edited)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#234. To: Rotara (#233)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#235. To: wudidiz (#233)
(Edited)
#236. To: groundresonance (#235)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#237. To: wudidiz (#236)
Why should I?
#238. To: groundresonance (#237)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
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