Title: Video Shot by Pilot Flying Along side several Chemtrail Planes Source:
[None] URL Source:[None] Published:Mar 13, 2010 Author:kevin604bc Post Date:2010-03-13 16:18:34 by wudidiz Keywords:None Views:21015 Comments:715
There is nothing in the volume or color of the visible gases that is unusual in these trails. I've seen them many times aloft and from the ground. At one point the trails flair out dramatically, but if you look closely, you can see that this is because the aircraft is descending.
If there a sinister forces involved in this at all, it may be to the extent that the chemtrail story is aimed at exciting fear at the most primitive level. It may be part of a psyop to keep the population off-balance.
My Dad was a fighter pilot. He went on to be an airline pilot. I went to many airshows and he told me a lot about airplanes. I had a habit of always watching the sky as airplanes went by and knew my planes quite well. That's not to say I'm an expert by any means. But I knew what a contrail was from an early age. They would follow the airliners across the sky only a few lengths behind. They are condensation from engine exhaust. Therefore the name 'con-trails'. They would always dissipate quickly as contrails do. There's simply not enough condensation from the exhaust for them to remain visible for long. Beginning in the mid to late 90s these chemtrails started appearing. They increased in number much after 9/11. There's not a chance in hell that those long trails we see left in the sky by some airliners now are condensation. Simply physically impossible.
I don't know how I can explain it any better really. If you honestly want to know about this with an open mind, I suggest you research it on the Internet. There's no shortage of information about chemtrails. Not all of it true of course.
My Dad was a fighter pilot. He went on to be an airline pilot. I went to many airshows and he told me a lot about airplanes. I had a habit of always watching the sky as airplanes went by and knew my planes quite well. That's not to say I'm an expert by any means. But I knew what a contrail was from an early age. They would follow the airliners across the sky only a few lengths behind. They are condensation from engine exhaust. Therefore the name 'con-trails'. They would always dissipate quickly as contrails do. There's simply not enough condensation from the exhaust for them to remain visible for long. Beginning in the mid to late 90s these chemtrails started appearing. They increased in number much after 9/11. There's not a chance in hell that those long trails we see left in the sky by some airliners now are condensation. Simply physically impossible.
I don't know how I can explain it any better really. If you honestly want to know about this with an open mind, I suggest you research it on the Internet. There's no shortage of information about chemtrails. Not all of it true of course.
I was interested in planes and aeronautics from the time I was in diapers, and as well my father was pilot. Because of that I used to look at the contrails when I was a kid 30-40 years ago and was always disappointed when they were not visible. You see the air conditions have to be just right and the plane at the right altitude for them to form.
A standard contrail forming from natural physical processes has only a short persistence - maybe 20 minutes - 30 tops.
The Chemtrails we see today, which first began in the late 80's to early 90's are qualitatively different from a standard contrail.
A standard contrail is formed from water vapor and temperature and as such quickly dissipates with temperature and time.
A Chemtrail by contrast has the characteristic of persistence i.e., they will persist well beyond the 20 to 30 minutes of a standard contrail and will spread to create a thin haze. When they are really busy at it I have seen them horizon to horizon counting a minimum of 13 Chemtrails. For an uncommon phenomenon, contrails, that is rather phenomenal.
Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored: Clifford Carnicom
A standard contrail looks more vaporous to begin with and as you watch the plane move across the sky you will see the trail disappearing before it makes the full circuit horizon to horizon. Only very rarely will a contrail aid in the formation of a clouds of any kind - generally they just rapidly fade. I would suggest that the "Contrail Cirrus" is a term inserted into the debate as disinformation to attempt to discredit the observers who have been blowing the whistle on Chemtrails. You will find very little if anything about "Contrail Cirrus" prior to the advent of people noticing the existence of Chemtrails.
According to the U.S. Air Force, jet contrails form above 33,000 feet when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses ice crystals into pencil-thin vapor trails that quickly vanish like the wake behind a boat.
Chemtrails (CTs) look like contrails initially, but are much thicker, extend across the sky and are often laid down in varying patterns of Xs, tick-tack-toe grids, cross-hatched and parallel lines. Instead of quickly dissipating, chemtrails expand and drip feathers and mare s tails. In 30 minutes or less, they open into wispy formations which join together, forming a thin white veil or a "fake cirrus-type cloud" that persists for hours.
In August 2000, chemtrail watchers began to report "more normal" appearing or nearly invisible jet sprays. However, these reports go on to include cloud formations dripping the feathers and mare s tails just as the chemtrails do. It s our belief that the operation has adjusted the chemtrail mix as word about the phenomenon is spreading and as more and more people are looking up. Observant chemtrail watchers continue to see the "fake cirrus-type clouds" on top of and surrounding real cumulus clouds.
Another point not mentioned in the quote is that Chemtrails are often laid at altitudes well below the altitude required to produce the freezing temperatures needed to form a standard contrail (temperature decreases with altitude as the atmosphere is thinner and does not hold heat). Chemtrails are often laid down at the 10,000 foot level which is well below the 33,000 foot level which the Airforce states as the minimum formation altititude.
#25. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#21)
I think it should be, at this point, apparent to a neutral observer that it is your intent to argue the disinformation line rather than to review the data and see what conclusion the actual observations lead to.
Whenever I see some attempt to argue by use of Loaded Words such as "loony-tunes" to characterize something without examining the evidence or providing any logical justification I immediatelly call Bullshit. BULLSHIT!
(From "The Logical Fallacies entry on Loaded Words): Exposition:
A word or phrase is "loaded" when it has a secondary, evaluative meaning in addition to its primary, descriptive meaning. When language is "loaded", it is loaded with its evaluative meaning. A loaded word is like a loaded gun, and its evaluative meaning is the bullet.
Examples: Unloaded Loaded Plant Weed Animal Beast
While few words have no evaluative overtones, "plant" is a primarily descriptive term. "Weed", in contrast, has essentially the same descriptive meaning as "plant", but a negative evaluative meaning, as well. A weed is a plant of which we disapprove.
Loaded language is not inherently fallacious, otherwise most poetry would commit this fallacy. However, it is often a logical boobytrap, which may cause one to leap to an unwarranted evaluative conclusion. The fallacy is committed either when an arguer attempts to use loaded words in place of an argument, or when an arguee makes an evaluation based on the colorful language in which an argument is clothed, rather than on the merits of the argument itself.
Loaded language is a subfallacy of Begging the Question, because to use loaded language fallaciously is to assume an evaluation that has not been proved, thereby failing to fulfill the burden of proof. For this reason, Jeremy Bentham dubbed this fallacy "Question-Begging Epithets". ...
#28. To: groundresonance, wudidiz, randge, FormerLurker (#27)
No, it is called L-O-G-I-C or otherwise known as sound reasoning.
If one applies the Scientific Method then one forms a conclusion based upon evidence.
Photographs are evidence.
Known physical properties of contrails is evidence.
Characterizations i.e., "loaded words" is NOT evidence.
Therefore your argument founders on the unsoundness of the attempts to divert from the issues, avoidance of the evidence, and the use of negative language as a tool to persuade by applying a negative label.
All of the foregoing methods you have used are known, and categorized, under a term in use for well over 100 years i.e., Logical Fallacies and the newer term invented to describe government, and PR Agency, tactics of seeding knowingly false data and false arguments i.e., disinformation.
you've been unable to explain how a 747 loaded to the gills is unable to produce a "chemtrail" of retardant that's longer than five miles.
First off, you provide no link that backs your assertion. However, it doesn't take a lot of brains to understand the difference between dumping loads of dry flame retardant powder and an aerosol or fog sprayed out at a MUCH MUCH lower flow rate.
Ok, but we're not talking about powder being dumped out of the plane to put out fires, we're talking about an aerosol or fog being released at a MUCH lower flow rate. Do you understand the difference between dumping huge amounts of powder and spraying a fine mist or fog that consists of minute liquid particles?
please tell us how much water vapor is produced in one hour from the fuel burned by a 747.
Please go read up on the subject, and learn that various chemicals such as barium have been found in dust found on vehicles shortly after a day of chemtrail activity.
Look up the various KNOWN and ACCEPTED info on weather modification, especially in reference to barium. Then give me some calcuations as to why you think this is impossible.
I want some calculus and actual physics, not some BS about fire fighting craft dumping dry chemicals on fires.
I want some calculus and actual physics, not some BS about fire fighting craft dumping dry chemicals on fires.
Now, now. You're asking a shill to actually produce evidence? And calculations requiring higher math? From someone who probably can't do much more than simple Algebra?
you're unable to post the combustion products of jet fuel or kerosene.
you're unable to explain why, if this were such a crisis, no one has gone up to sample "chemtrails" directly.
it only costs a couple thousand dollars an hour to rent a lear, their climb rate is something like !0,000 feet per minute, you could be up and back in half an hour.
Ok, I'll concede the fact that kerosene combustion products DO include water, but the fact is, the ACTUAL water content of the exhaust is DEPENDENT on the amount of water vapor in the air, the density of the air, and various other factors.
That the combustion DOES produce water does not relate to the ACTUAL amount of water in jet exhaust. AND, water could just as easily be carried in tanks and heated, resulting in a similar amount of water concentration. Have you ever seen fog machines at concerts?
hmmm, that's interesting. Water is produced from burning jet fuel? So all that jet fuel that burned at the WTC towers when the planes struck them also produced water?
I am asking because I don't know, seems kind of nuts to me though.
Review your physics, man! In space, there is volume w-l-h. It is three dimensional in scope.
Did or did not groundresonance state the following?
a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet...
Now if you look at a trail, whether it's a regular contrail or a chemtrail, it is 3 dimensional, is it not? Cubic feet is a measure of volume (ie. 3 dimensional space) buck, in case you didn't know. The thing is, the LENGTH is MUCH greater than the circular cross section, where the circular cross section of a regular contrail might be say 30 feet in diameter. Since area of a circle is Pi * (radius)Squared, or Pi * (diameter/2)Squared, then 3.14 * (15)Squared is 706.5 square feet. So every 10 feet of length gives you 7065 cubic feet of water vapor, from what he claims, in the area of what he claims as "thousands of cubic feet per gallon". SO, if this were true, and since there are 5280 feet in a mile, then there would have to be 528 gallons of water per mile, or 2640 gallons in five miles. If the water comes from the jet fuel, and even IF there was a 100% conversion of jet fuel to water (which of course there isn't), then the jet would burn 2650 gallons of fuel every 5 miles. In order to fly 500 miles, it'd have to burn 265,000 gallons of fuel. Jets can fly THOUSANDS of miles, yet a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel, and only consumes about 5 gallons per mile, not 528 or more.
and when that fuel is burned, it produces about 50,000 gallons of water.
when that water is emitted as water vapor, it occupies much more space than it does when it's in liquid form.
Again disengenuous and outright dishonest - through omission of key data. Natural contrails are only formed above 33,000 feet and consist of ice crystals i.e., frozen water vapor. They persist only until the ice cystals melt back into unobservable clear water vapor - which abounds in the atmosphere.
50,000 sounds like a big number, and I won't even bother to dispute it because what is relevant is that the water vapor only becomes visible as a contrail when frozen, and the conditions to do so vary with atmospheric density and temperature. A plane below the critical altitude where the water freezes into cystals flies merrily along nonetheless - and should ordinarily leave no visible contrail regardless of the amount of water vapor emitted in the exhaust as it does not freeze into reflective ice crystals.
What you are doing is throwing shit against the wall hoping it will stick. Unfortunately for you, and your disinformation line, it is a slippery wall.
One thing is apparent though is that you are twisting and turning in every attempt to deny what people have actually observed and photographed.
50,000 sounds like a big number, and I won't even bother to dispute
What he's saying is that you get more water by burning kerosene than the amount of kerosene itself. Like I said, perhaps instead of worrying about where to get water from, Middle Eastern nations should just burn that kerosene and drink all the water it makes.. LOL
So you're saying I can get more water from a glass of kerosene than I can from a glass of water, eh?
yup.
if your combustion is complete, and you have a good way to condense the water out of the combustion exhaust, you will get more water from burning a glass of kerosene than you would from the same glass filled with water.
#185. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#183)
So you're saying I can get more water from a glass of kerosene than I can from a glass of water, eh?
yup.
if your combustion is complete, and you have a good way to condense the water out of the combustion exhaust, you will get more water from burning a glass of kerosene than you would from the same glass filled with water.
Close but no cigar. The combustion reaction in a Jet Engine (Aviation Fuel) in general terms is:
CnH2n+2 + (3n+1)/2 O2 => n CO2 + (n + 1) H2O
Which does not account for your claim on the production of water vapor (before crystalization) as being greater than unity.
However, this is all a diversion from the main point which is that it does not demonstrate how contrails are formed at altitudes under 33,000 feet since the atmospheric temperature is not cold enough to promote the rapid formation of ice cystals from the water vapor exiting the exhaust.
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails".
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails".
neat how that works, huh?
Spoken like a true "B" Student in H.S. General Science leaving out the key component provision i.e., at a specified altitude and temperature because ALL of the conditions have to be met for natural contrails to form.
Keep trying though I just love the way you wipe the drool off your chin at each misstep. Just try not to get it on the carpet. K'?
dont bother posting any more pictures of "chemtrails" unless you also post the pressure altitude, temperature and relative humidity of the air mass the airplane was flying through.
I'll post whatever I damn well please and allow the objective readers who have an open MIND to judge the available data based on their own observations.
Your continually reliance on one absurdity after another is amusing though.
you guys cant post any proof of support infrastructure, you cant explain why none of your "chemtrail" fans are willing to rent a plane and take samples.
you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose.
you cant estimate how many observed contrails are, in fact, "chemtrails", you cant explain why you cant come up with airtight, irrefutable proof of "chemtrails" existence.
all you can do is post pictures of uncertain provenance, pictures completely lacking in pertinent flight data.
you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose.
People used to ridicule early scientists who tried to inform the world that many diseases were caused by germs, since nobody could see them, and nobody could show motality studies of what those germs caused, since people didn't believe they existed in the first place.
#233. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, buckeroo, all (#231)(Edited)
These are fairly sensible questions although you might try approaching the issue with an open mind since you seem relatively new to it and uninformed about it.
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation” (most popularly attributed to Herbert Spencer)
you guys dont seem to have any idea of the scale of this supposed "chemtrail" operation.
It's huge.
if the operation had any scale to it at all, wouldnt there be paper trails, too?
There are.
wouldnt there be ground support equipment?
There must be.
wouldnt there be mechanics who installed the machinery on the airplanes?
Of course.
wouldnt there be lab workers who fabricated whatever it is that's supposedly being sprayed?
Probably at least some.
wouldnt there be people who, out of a sense of self-preservation, would blow a whistle?
Not necessarily, although some have.
and what about the people making money on this "chemtrail" industry?
The military industrial complex, oil industry and aluminum manufacturers (who make money off fluoride being put in water and toothpaste?)
wouldnt they be well-served to hire a jet to take conclusive samples, witnessed by people of unimpeachable character?
seems to me you'd have real evidence of such a "huge" operation, other than photographs that give people no clue as to the altitude of the airplane, or the temperature and humidity of the air mass at that altitude.
please post documentary evidence of "chemtrail" spray operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations.
please post evidence of support machinery used in "chemtrail" operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations.
please post verifiable testimony from mechanics who are involved in installing and/or maintaining "chemtrail" equipment on airplanes or ground support machinery, other than that used in normal agricultural or fire suppression operations.
please tell us what chemicals are being sprayed, and why they're being sprayed, please post evidence of chemical fabrication labs, please post testimony from chemists involved in fabricating the chemicals used in "chemtrail" operations.
please explain why people involved in the "huge" "chemtrail" industry are so unconcerned about their own well-being that they are not blowing whistles, left, right and center.
the people making money of the supposed "chemtrail" operation are, in the absence of any evidence of "chemtrails" existence, people selling patent medicines to cure "chemtrail" hypochondfiacs, and people who sell website ads to people who prey on gullible "chemtrail" believers.
please post evidence obtained by a "chemtrail" profiteer hiring a jet, taking samples of "chemtrails" while scrupulously following rules of evidence, and submitting those samples to a reputable lab.