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Title: Video Shot by Pilot Flying Along side several Chemtrail Planes
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Published: Mar 13, 2010
Author: kevin604bc
Post Date: 2010-03-13 16:18:34 by wudidiz
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Views: 20891
Comments: 715
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#1. To: wudidiz (#0)
They hate us because we're supposedly FREE...
There is nothing in the volume or color of the visible gases that is unusual in these trails. I've seen them many times aloft and from the ground. At one point the trails flair out dramatically, but if you look closely, you can see that this is because the aircraft is descending. If there a sinister forces involved in this at all, it may be to the extent that the chemtrail story is aimed at exciting fear at the most primitive level. It may be part of a psyop to keep the population off-balance. Have a Camel. Relax.
here's a real "chemtrail"
I really don't know how to argue with that, except that it's not condensation. I've seen them many times too in the last 10+ years.
How do you know that?
My Dad was a fighter pilot. He went on to be an airline pilot. I went to many airshows and he told me a lot about airplanes. I had a habit of always watching the sky as airplanes went by and knew my planes quite well. That's not to say I'm an expert by any means. But I knew what a contrail was from an early age. They would follow the airliners across the sky only a few lengths behind. They are condensation from engine exhaust. Therefore the name 'con-trails'. They would always dissipate quickly as contrails do. There's simply not enough condensation from the exhaust for them to remain visible for long. Beginning in the mid to late 90s these chemtrails started appearing. They increased in number much after 9/11. There's not a chance in hell that those long trails we see left in the sky by some airliners now are condensation. Simply physically impossible. I don't know how I can explain it any better really. If you honestly want to know about this with an open mind, I suggest you research it on the Internet. There's no shortage of information about chemtrails. Not all of it true of course.
Back when I was a kid I was always checking out jets in the sky leaving contrails, and have seen MANY of them when I was stationed at an air base back in the late 70's. Chemtrails are NOT contrails, and only started appearing in the early to mid 90's or so, from what I've seen of them at least.
Yep, I wasn't sure if it was early, mid, or late 90's, but I'd say mid 90's is probably the best guess as when they first started to appear.
Stay away from the government or 'debunker' sites, they're lying. You can trust the whacko, lefty, kook, conspiracy fringe sites, they're telling the truth. ;-)
Results 1 - 10 of about 106,000 for persistent contrails Results 1 - 10 of about 427,000 for contrail cirrus
Please refer to post #9. FL, I have a seven month old baby and the wife's pregnant again and is perpetually hungry and I have to go to work to make money to buy food. I'm passing the torch to you ;-)
how much space does a gallon's worth of water vapor occupy at 40,000 feet? how much kerosene does a 747 burn in an hour? how many tons of water vapor does a 747 create in an hour?
I don't know how I can explain it any better really. If you honestly want to know about this with an open mind, I suggest you research it on the Internet. There's no shortage of information about chemtrails. Not all of it true of course. I was interested in planes and aeronautics from the time I was in diapers, and as well my father was pilot. Because of that I used to look at the contrails when I was a kid 30-40 years ago and was always disappointed when they were not visible. You see the air conditions have to be just right and the plane at the right altitude for them to form. A standard contrail forming from natural physical processes has only a short persistence - maybe 20 minutes - 30 tops. The Chemtrails we see today, which first began in the late 80's to early 90's are qualitatively different from a standard contrail. A standard contrail is formed from water vapor and temperature and as such quickly dissipates with temperature and time. A Chemtrail by contrast has the characteristic of persistence i.e., they will persist well beyond the 20 to 30 minutes of a standard contrail and will spread to create a thin haze. When they are really busy at it I have seen them horizon to horizon counting a minimum of 13 Chemtrails. For an uncommon phenomenon, contrails, that is rather phenomenal. Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored: Clifford Carnicom
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
how do you tell a persistent contrail or contrail cirrus clouds from "chemtrails"?
Do you think we are just stupid or crazy, and don't know basic science? Many of us have lived long enough to remember a time when jets used to leave standard contrails, in fact, MOST jets still do form standard contrails under the right conditions. What people call CHEMTRAILS for the most part are NOT contrails, especially when you see several jets flying at opposing angles, criss-crossing each other's paths, turning around 180 degrees and leaving another patch, and going back and forth for 30 minutes or more.
so you cant tell a persistent contrail or contrail cirrus clouds from "chemtrails" unless... what? you go up and take samples directly from the contrail?
A standard contrail looks more vaporous to begin with and as you watch the plane move across the sky you will see the trail disappearing before it makes the full circuit horizon to horizon. Only very rarely will a contrail aid in the formation of a clouds of any kind - generally they just rapidly fade. I would suggest that the "Contrail Cirrus" is a term inserted into the debate as disinformation to attempt to discredit the observers who have been blowing the whistle on Chemtrails. You will find very little if anything about "Contrail Cirrus" prior to the advent of people noticing the existence of Chemtrails. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
here's a high altitude IFR enroute chart of federal airways. these are the "highways in the sky" designated by the government, but airplanes do not necessarily fly on them, especially now that GPS and other nav systems are aboard most commercial aircraft. you can tell the controllers where you want to go, and, depending on the traffic, you might be able to go direct, and ignore the airways... which accounts for the criss-crossing.
Another point not mentioned in the quote is that Chemtrails are often laid at altitudes well below the altitude required to produce the freezing temperatures needed to form a standard contrail (temperature decreases with altitude as the atmosphere is thinner and does not hold heat). Chemtrails are often laid down at the 10,000 foot level which is well below the 33,000 foot level which the Airforce states as the minimum formation altititude.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
if winds aloft are 100 mph, and two planes, flying crosswind on the same heading, cross through the exact same airspace at 15 minute intervals, what's gonna happen to their contrails? how many miles will their contrails be apart... hint: what's 100 divided by four?
oh. have you been up there to make first-hand observations, or are you merely quoting some loony-tunes "chemtrail" site?
You think I don't know the difference between normal air traffic and something that isn't normal? I don't live in Kansas where air lanes might criss cross, if that's what you're thinking. Try to accept the fact that some people ARE perhaps a bit more observant than yourself and do notice things that aren't normal.
how many gallons of "chemtrail" substance, whatever that substance is supposed to be, would be required to leave a visible "chemtrail" a hundred miles long...? especially in view of the fact that 747 air tankers with a load of 24,000 gallons can only drop a swath 5 miles long?
are you a professional pilot operating aircraft at altitudes at which contrails can form? are airplanes required to stop at every major airport they pass? or might they overfly them?
I think it should be, at this point, apparent to a neutral observer that it is your intent to argue the disinformation line rather than to review the data and see what conclusion the actual observations lead to. Whenever I see some attempt to argue by use of Loaded Words such as "loony-tunes" to characterize something without examining the evidence or providing any logical justification I immediatelly call Bullshit. BULLSHIT! Examples: "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
especially in view of the fact that 747 air tankers with a load of 24,000 gallons can only drop a swath 5 miles long? Hmmm? The further we go the more disinformation tactics you display: Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10. Example: 'Since you know so much, if James Earl Ray is as innocent as you claim, who really killed Martin Luther King, how was it planned and executed, how did they frame Ray and fool the FBI, and why?' Proper response: You are avoiding the issue with disinformation tactics. It is not necessary to completely resolve any full matter in order to examine any relative attached issue. Discussion of any evidence of Ray's innocence can stand alone to serve truth, and any alternative solution to the crime, while it may bolster that truth, can also stand alone. Why do you refuse to address the issues by use of such disinformation tactics (rule 14 - demand complete solutions)? 10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source. 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
in other words, you cant defend your logic, so you have to veer off into a discussion of semantics. not good
No, it is called L-O-G-I-C or otherwise known as sound reasoning. If one applies the Scientific Method then one forms a conclusion based upon evidence. Photographs are evidence. Known physical properties of contrails is evidence. Characterizations i.e., "loaded words" is NOT evidence. Therefore your argument founders on the unsoundness of the attempts to divert from the issues, avoidance of the evidence, and the use of negative language as a tool to persuade by applying a negative label. All of the foregoing methods you have used are known, and categorized, under a term in use for well over 100 years i.e., Logical Fallacies and the newer term invented to describe government, and PR Agency, tactics of seeding knowingly false data and false arguments i.e., disinformation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You don't need to be a professional pilot to know that contrails are formed by hot exhaust gas from jet engines hitting cold moist air. You don't need to be a professional pilot to know they don't form out of the planes ailerons ... Do you think you need to be a professional meterologist to know when it's raining outside?
Perhaps to you this is normal air traffic... Good photo and valid point. Contrails form from the Jet's exhaust and from the water vapor in the exhaust, and ONLY under specific conditions. Under no conditions do they form from the ailerons.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
...of contrails... unless "chemtrails" have been photoshopped into the picture. you've been unable to refute logical explanations of how supposed "chemtrail" patterns can occur as the result of normal air traffic. you've been unable to explain how a 747 loaded to the gills is unable to produce a "chemtrail" of retardant that's longer than five miles. you're unable to point to "chemtrail" support infrastructure that would be necessary to mount your "chemtrail" operation.
perhaps you've never been in a holding pattern at altitude to conserve fuel before you commenced your approach. perhaps you've never been instructed by ATC to "do a left 360 for spacing"
BTW, one other aspect of chemtrails are the clouds they form. I've seen bright greenish and reddish hues in those clouds first hand, similar to the image below... perhaps you've never heard of "time on station" and have never observed fighter bombers loitering until the FACs came up with a target for them.
Planes don't fly high enough in a holding pattern to leave contrails, for one. For two, it's apparent from the image that the plane that left that trail was in a fairly tight 360 degree turn, whereas an actual holding pattern would result in a much shallower turn spread out over many miles around a metropolitan area.
oh. rainbows are evidence that god was doing "chemtrails" thousands of years ago, huh?
how do you know that? are you a professional pilot?
Some people wouldn't believe it if you actually flew them close enough to the sprayer to see it first hand and up close, they'd still find a way to deny it. Anything that changes a person's world view is hard for them to accept, whether it be evidence of the impossibility of the official 9/11 legend, or chemtrails.
You don't need to be a pilot to understand science.
...of contrails... unless "chemtrails" have been photoshopped into the picture. you've been unable to refute logical explanations of how supposed "chemtrail" patterns can occur as the result of normal air traffic. you've been unable to explain how a 747 loaded to the gills is unable to produce a "chemtrail" of retardant that's longer than five miles. you're unable to point to "chemtrail" support infrastructure that would be necessary to mount your "chemtrail" operation. Again you resort to false logic in an attempt to divert from the subject. A. It is not necessary to prove the entire question to observe that something unusual is happening which is contrary to known information. B. Who said anything about chemical fire retardent. As far as I can tell the Chemtrails are not a firefighting phenomena so it is an unknown as to how much of the formula is required to produce the trails. And we do not need to know that to observe that they do in fact exist and occur under circumstances, and at altitudes, which would ordinarily NOT form contrails. C. And your third point is again unnecessary to answer to be able to observe that something unusual is happening. At this point all you have produced are disinformation tactics and attempted diversions sprinkled with logical fallacies. You are a shill. Whom do you work for?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I'm talking about oily multicolored shades in clouds formed by chemtrails, not rainbows smartass.
are we to assume that you have flown close enough to the sprayer to see it first hand? can you provide proof of the sprayer's existence, along with evidence of the infrastructure that would be needed to support this "chemtrail" project?
here's a question for the two of you... what percentage of observed contrails are actually "chemtrails"?
You don't need to be a pilot to understand science. At this point all the poor shill can do is just keep repeating the same disinformation tactics. Being a shill he/she cannot engage in a substantive analysis but can only divert and use standard disinformation ploys which we have both seen a thousand times. That a disinformation shill would be assigned to try to do that is a prima facie case that the Chemtrail data is valid, and that the lid is still on to keep it suppressed and out of general public knowledge.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
First off, you provide no link that backs your assertion. However, it doesn't take a lot of brains to understand the difference between dumping loads of dry flame retardant powder and an aerosol or fog sprayed out at a MUCH MUCH lower flow rate.
Maximum holding speeds are established in order to keep aircraft within the protected holding area during their one-minute inbound and outbound legs. For civil aircraft (not military) in the United States, these airspeeds are: [1] * Up to 6,000 feet (1,800 m) MSL: 200 knots (370 km/h; 230 mph) The ICAO Maximum holding speeds: * Up to 14000 ft: 230kts what percentage of observed contrails are actually "chemtrails"? How many Angels can fit on the head of a pin? Each occurrence has to be analyzed on its own merits and compared against known good data. You are attempting to pose an unaswerable question to play "Gotcha". I don't play "Gotcha".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
For one, I HAVE seen the effects of the sprayers, and for two, I HAVE viewed the aircraft myself with binoculars and seen that the trails were not being formed by the engines, but from somewhere towards the rear of the craft, and not inline with the exhaust of the engines. Perhaps you can ask someone you know to go sneak onto whatever classified airbase is launching these aircraft, take some pictures, and get back to us. Get real bud.
First off, you provide no link that backs your assertion. evergreen propaganda isnt good enough for you, huh?
how many feet does it take water vapor to condense when it's emitted from an engine that's traveling 600 mph?
Perhaps our shill can explain why a little tiny crop dusting plane can lay down multiple rows of chemicals from that itty bitty plane which is much smaller than a "747"? Based on the reasoning he is trying to imply that's impossible. You need a 747 to dust crops. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
how long does the swath last, how often the the plane have to reload? and, compared to a 747, do you imagine you'd be able to see a cropduster if it was at 40,000 feet?
Clear evidence you are losing the argument, OI. Why are you so defensive today?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
Ok, but we're not talking about powder being dumped out of the plane to put out fires, we're talking about an aerosol or fog being released at a MUCH lower flow rate. Do you understand the difference between dumping huge amounts of powder and spraying a fine mist or fog that consists of minute liquid particles?
He's trying to equate dry bulk powder to fine aerosol mist and fog. Sort of like comparing oranges to grains of sand.
Hi Bucky - here to play back-up for your compadre? Do you have anything intelligent to bring to the table? Maybe some evidence as opposed to Argumentum Ad Hominem?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
so such a miniscule amount of spray would create such a massive trail that it would be visible from 40,000 feet.
One other aspect that is not being considered is the chemical properties of the mist or fog being delivered, and how it reacts to air and/or water vapor.
Well you CAN see contrails can't you? Apparently it IS possible to see those, you admit that at least, correct? If the substance being sprayed can react chemically with the water vapor or the air itself, it very well COULD, and apparently IS visible.
He's trying to equate dry bulk powder to fine aerosol mist and fog. Sort of like comparing oranges to grains of sand. Give the guy a break. A low paid disinfo operator like him is probably working from a palate of approved lines and isn't allowed to actually think beyond rotely applying the few techniques he/she has been taught. Just because he's comparing Apples and Aardvarks and trying to say they're the same thing is no reason to get picky. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
how much water vapor, from burning fuel, is a 747 producing per second? how much space, in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000, does water vapor occupy, per gallon?
Yes. I already placed the meat on the table watching this discussion. You are all over the map today. And I have never seen this before. Did something happen to you recently? I think you are a great poster. I hope you are doing OK in life.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
Oh and BTW, do you admit that crop dusters DO leave visible trails of
pesticide? Hmmm, that plane sure looks like it's a tad bit smaller
than a 747, doesn't it?
True - we do not really know the composition of the formula, the full range of components, and the amount needed to produce the desired result. We have a few analyses of a few samples but no sample of the source formula. As well there seems to be more than one formula, but is likely suspended in the same basic solution. At different times samples have shown aluminum, barium, as well as more exotic components.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
in the picture of the duster, above. please tell us what the guy is dispensing, what it weighs, and how long the swath will be from a fully loaded duster. please tell us how much water vapor is produced in one hour from the fuel burned by a 747.
how much space, in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000, does water vapor occupy, per gallon? The water is in the air the engine breathes, not in the kerosene that fuels the aircraft. So if a chemical reaction could heat up the air just like a running jet engine could, and perhaps even lace it with various other substances at the same time, it very well COULD take a relatively small amount of material to produce the effect, since the amount of available water vapor is the same.
why dont you? are you unable to organize the rental of a little jet to go up and obtain samples? or are you afraid of what you'd find?
I believe that is what Mr. Haney on Green Acres always used. >(;^{)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. how much water vapor, from burning fuel, is a 747 producing per second? how much space, in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000, does water vapor occupy, per gallon? How much wood could a Woodchuck chuck if a Woodchuck could chuck wood? You're getting lamer and just repeating the same disinfo tactics over and over. Your questions are irrelevant and simply exist to try and divert the discussion.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
how much water vapor, from burning fuel, is a 747 producing per second? how much space, in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000, does water vapor occupy, per gallon? if this is such a crisis, why are you afraid to rent a jet, go up, and take samples directly from a "chemtrail"? if it's so important, dont you think someone would have done that by now?
Please go read up on the subject, and learn that various chemicals such as barium have been found in dust found on vehicles shortly after a day of chemtrail activity. Look up the various KNOWN and ACCEPTED info on weather modification, especially in reference to barium. Then give me some calcuations as to why you think this is impossible. I want some calculus and actual physics, not some BS about fire fighting craft dumping dry chemicals on fires.
if the winds aloft are 100 mph, and the "chemtrails" are sprayed at an altitude of 30,000 feet, where will the "chemtrail" residue wind up?
ZERO, since the engines don't PRODUCE water, they simply exhaust whatever water vapor is in the air they are combusting. Trick question, eh? Apparently you didn't even know the answer to your own quetion since I already answered it, and you apparently didn't understand it. The AMOUNT of water vapor varies since the air itself contains varying amounts of water, depending on weather conditions.
If you have a jet engine up your ass, and you fart, which direction will the fart go, East, West, North, or South?
LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
That's basically the same thing you're asking me, since you gave no direction of the winds. Perhaps you should go ask your mom, she might give you the correct answer.
at what rate does water vapor come out of the exhaust of a 747? the amount of water exhausted by a turbine engine is determined by the chemical reaction of combustion. it does not vary with anything other than fuel consumption.
Now, now. You're asking a shill to actually produce evidence? And calculations requiring higher math? From someone who probably can't do much more than simple Algebra? How cruel. Valid though.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
How much water vapor is in the sky above your head right now, and at what density is the water vapor at any given altitude. OI is right, you ARE far beyond just getting ridiculous and playing dumb, you ARE posting idiotic questions trying to make yourself appear to have some understanding of what you are saying, but to MOST people with any degree of intelligence, you are asking questions such as "if a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border, where do you bury the survivors"...
Lets see YOU produce evidence.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
the amount of water exhausted by a turbine engine is determined by the chemical reaction of combustion. it does not vary with anything other than fuel consumption. So, the water content of the input air is constant? At all altitudes? All weather conditions? Pardon my mirth.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
So the air has nothing to do with combustion, eh? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
you're unable to post the combustion products of jet fuel or kerosene. you're unable to explain why, if this were such a crisis, no one has gone up to sample "chemtrails" directly. it only costs a couple thousand dollars an hour to rent a lear, their climb rate is something like !0,000 feet per minute, you could be up and back in half an hour. why has no one bothered to do that?
It's like I said, he's asking questions such as "if an elephant farts, which direction will it travel?", or "where do you bury the survivors if a plane crashes on an international border"...
How much water vapor is in the sky above your head right now, and at what density is the water vapor at any given altitude. OI is right, you ARE far beyond just getting ridiculous and playing dumb, you ARE posting idiotic questions trying to make yourself appear to have some understanding of what you are saying, but to MOST people with any degree of intelligence, you are asking questions such as "if a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border, where do you bury the survivors"... LOL! Exactly. At this point the shill is simply trying to keep his case from looking more threadbare and tattered than it already is. He lost the debate about 40 posts back but has just been recycling the same limited repetoire of disinformation tactics to try and bury that fact.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You are the first person to bring that sort of stuff up. What happened to you? Can't reasonably stay on the thread track?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
FAA regulations for one. For two, try getting too close to a military aircraft on an intercept path and see what happens.
Ever hear of the term "analogy" buck?
please post 747 fuel consumption. please post the amount of water produced by a turbine engine as it burns kerosene or jet fuel. please post the number of tons of water vapor produced by a 747 per hour. please post the number of cubic feet occupied by a gallon's worth of water vapor at 40,000 feet.
Yes. He's just doing all he knows how to do which is to try and confuse the issue, make it out to be more complex than it is, and generally try to create a fog through which the casual reader would not want to wade, but if anyone goes back to around post 30 and works forward his tactics become apparent and his arguments shown to be the noxious vapor they are.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It doesn't count. You are clearly losing momentum on this thread.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
if contrails last for hours, and the military jets are going 500 or 600 miles per hour, how long will it take them to get out of your way as you're collecting samples? if you wait an hour, assuming you've got a suspect "chemtrail" that's showing persistence according to "chemtrail" dogma, that jet is gonna be 500 miles down the road before you even get cranked.
Ok, I'll concede the fact that kerosene combustion products DO include water, but the fact is, the ACTUAL water content of the exhaust is DEPENDENT on the amount of water vapor in the air, the density of the air, and various other factors. That the combustion DOES produce water does not relate to the ACTUAL amount of water in jet exhaust. AND, water could just as easily be carried in tanks and heated, resulting in a similar amount of water concentration. Have you ever seen fog machines at concerts?
Ever hear of the term "analogy" buck? Buckie is just being cantankerous again. I stuck a needle in him on an earlier thread and so now he's come a' gunnin'. Ignore him and eventually he'll go away.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
How many people could or would file a flight plan to fly a private jet into a chemtrail, and how many people could afford to do so?
Have you ever seen a "Fog Machine" on a thread?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You are clearly bored and trolling...
How small would a fog machine for angels dancing on the head of a pin have to be? LOL....
Hee, hee. Oh, Hunnert!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
there are laws of chemistry, and chemical reactions proceed according to those laws. combustion is a chemical reaction, it conforms to laws of chemistry. please fill in the blank. a gallon of jet fuel produces _____ water upon combustion. please fill in another blank... the amount of water above, in blank one, will produce _____ cubic feet of water vapor in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000' on a standard day.
Please fill in the blank. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
a gallon of jet fuel produces _____ water upon combustion. please fill in another blank... the amount of water above, in blank one, will produce _____ cubic feet of water vapor in the atmospheric pressure found at 40,000 on a standard day. Just non-sequitors, since we don't even know if the chemtrails contain water in the first place. But since you appear to have the answers, why don't you go ahead and post them.
LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Yep, I chuckled over that one too... :)
...but we for sure know that contrails, as combustion products, contain a certain amount of water. if you dont know how much water is produced by burning jet fuel, you're not qualified to discuss contrails or "chemtrails".
At least you conceded an important issue based upon my urging of the same. Thank you kindly. I have known you on the Internet for five years. You create excellent views and I have never seen you lose your cool or lie or play some scoundrel as OI affectionately considers me. And I think another five years into the future, too. Damned good idea... but don't get defensive.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
hmmm, that's interesting. Water is produced from burning jet fuel? So all that jet fuel that burned at the WTC towers when the planes struck them also produced water? I am asking because I don't know, seems kind of nuts to me though.
God is always good!
It was a good one. Too bad Mr. Haney died, he could have probably answered your question (for a nominal fee of course). Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. is your google broke? combustion produces water vapor, and unless it's cold enough, the water vapor doesnt condense to form water.
Do you need to be a nuclear physicist to know that the Sun produces light, or a planetary scientist to know that the reason why it's dark at night is because the Earth is rotating on it's axis? More innuendo, conjecture, and false logic...
One of your posts asked, given a certain wind speed, which direction will the chemtrails travel. Do you admit that was an illogical and idiotic question?
how can you expect to make a valid judgment of what causes contrails if you are unable to understand one of the most basic chemical laws involved in producing contrails?
...but we for sure know that contrails, as combustion products, contain a certain amount of water. if you dont know how much water is produced by burning jet fuel, you're not qualified to discuss contrails or "chemtrails". Oh, horseshit! One can still observe on a qualitative basis and see that there is something occurring which does not square with known data. You are attempting to create a confusion where none exists. Chemtrails are an observable fact. They do not conform to the known characteristics of a normal contrail. Therefore it is an unexplained phenomena. Please explain to us how contrails form on the tips of ailerons as in the photo posted earlier on the thread? No, your tactics are clear, ask irrelevant questions which delve off into minutiae not relevant to making an observation. You are simply trying to create diversions and confuse the issues. The Chemtrails exist and there are hundreds of photos to document that fact such as those at www.carnicom.com They occur under circumstances where normal contrails do not. They persist longer than a normal contrail, are laid out in patterns, and exhibit spreading and other qualitatively observable characteristics that conflict with the known behavior of real contrails.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Are you trying to say that for one, you need to understand the chemical formula and byproducts of combustion in order to see contrails, and for two, are you trying to say that water content in the air, air temperature, and air density, are all unimportant and unrelated factors in regards to contrail formation?
Let me answer your earlier pictures of the spectra contained in these contrails. The phenomena is called refraction of light and instead of being absorbed by water vapor, the radiation refracts or bends sunlight to produce the majestic colours you see from time to time. It is water and nothing more beyond some chemical exhaust with a some oil and jet fuel. As your pictures show, it is pretty phenomena, don't you think?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
yes, they do. they exist at extremely low altitudes, and they are used in fire suppression efforts, pest control and fertilizing.
Well I can't see how or why 3 or 4 aircraft flying in formation from over the ocean at approximately 40,000 feet would be dropping fire suppressants, pesticides, or fertilizer, and change course in such a way when over land to form tic tac toe patterns in the sky, going and forth for an hour, then leave the area at high altitude...
i'm not trying to say anything. i am saying that contrails have existed since the time aircraft have flown high enough to reach conditions that produce contrails. i am saying, if "chemtrails" were such a big deal, you'd be able to organize a sample collection effort to take samples from contrails that you think are "chemtrails". i am saying that you've demonstrated such an overwhelming ignorance of atmospheric science, chemistry and physics that you have no business posting on a thread about contrails.
Yeah, I think it is broke. Says I am banned from doing searches due to the fact I deny the Holocaust occurred. Says I should go electrocute myself. Thank God I didn't listen to it.
God is always good!
And BTW, is it general practice to drop those substances from 40,000 feet over populated areas?
LOL
Really? Produces water vapor? I really wish I could still google. Maybe I will try scroogle.
God is always good!
And I am saying that I have observed CONTRAILS since I was a young child, and was stationed on an airbase where I viewed CONTRAILS virtually every day of the year. What I am saying is that what I am calling CHEMTRAILS are NOT CONTRAILS, and I don't need to be a chemist to notice the difference in their appearance or behavior.
Buck, regular contrails don't PRODUCE clouds, whereas the CHEMTRAILS often do, and the results are similar to that seen in the picture. You can notice it best with polarized sun glasses, where regular clouds don't have rainbow effects at their edges, whereas after chemtrail activity, they do.
and we're still using the same old engines on the same old airplanes that were being used when you were a child. air traffic has not increased, airplanes do not fly higher and faster, and do not burn more fuel than they did when you were a child. good enough
Thanks for bumping the thread BTW, it keeps it at the top of the comments section...
and all you've got to do now is prove the existence of "chemtrails", other than those used in fire suppression and agriculture. but you cant do it.
air traffic has not increased, airplanes do not fly higher and faster, and do not burn more fuel than they did when you were a child Turbofan engines are pretty much the same today as they were then in terms of overall design and concept, and airliners fly at pretty much the same altitude today as they did then. CHEMTRAILS were first seen around the mid 1990's or so, not back in the 70's, 60's or earlier. There has not been any revolutionary engine design change for commercial airliners during the 80's or 90's, nor even in the 21st century. Hence, that phenomenon which is being observed and named a CHEMTRAIL is NOT produced from those engines.
A reasonable person would say otherwise, and it's apparent that you are not a reasonable person.
are you denying that persistent contrails and contrail cirrus clouds exist? Results 1 - 10 of about 106,000 for persistent contrails Results 1 - 10 of about 427,000 for contrail cirrus why is this massive "chemtrail" movement unable to mount an operation to collect samples directly from "chemtrails"?
BTW, do you think that water fluoridation is a good and necessary thing?
OK, scroogle works. H2O is indeed produced from the combustion of hydrocarbons it appears. Learn something new everyday. :)
God is always good!
Are you trying to say that because there are occasional weather abnormalities, that ALL vapor trails produced by high flying aircraft which last for hours, turn the sky grey, and cause respiratory ailments are simply "water vapor contrails"?
yup, but dont let that out... it's a secret. not only that, but a gallon of kerosene produces a gallon of water, as water vapor, when it burns. not only that, but a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet... but dont tell anyone.
As OI puts his position: ...The Shadow Government....
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
You know, the more you argue talking points, the more you make it clear you are not posting because you truly believe what you post, but are simply posting standard talking (aka propaganda) points.
I remember one day, while watching some tankers (they appeared to be KC-130's) spray at high altitude, I DID see what appeared to be fighters flying towards them to investigate, but they were apparently ordered to turn back when they got close. Of course that's all hearsay and I can't prove it, hell, even if I had video people would accuse me of doctoring the video. These days, even actual footage of an event isn't proof. They're all quick to accept an obvious fake video of bin Laden admitting he "did" 9/11 though...
It is pretty stuff to view, too. Ask FormerLurker whom posed some nice pictures, earlier up the thread.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
But wait a minute, didn't you say it would take a 747 with tons of it to cause a 5 mile trail? Doesn't seem to be the case now does it...
It is pretty stuff to view, too. you just cant keep a secret, can you?
Exactly. He's following a script - probably has it on a decision chart what he is supposed to post in response to what as well as which diversion/disinfo lines he is supposed to use. If you brought up 911 Truth he would have a different decision chart but the tactics would remain the same.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I won't wear any 3-D glasses, either.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
you might oughta ask a firefighter who's been knocked flat by a retardant drop if retardant is vapor.
Review your physics, man! In space, there is volume w-l-h. It is three dimensional in scope.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
yup, but dont let that out... it's a secret. not only that, but a gallon of kerosene produces a gallon of water, as water vapor, when it burns. not only that, but a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet... but dont tell anyone. You can actually see water dripping from the tailpipe of cars and trucks when the exhaust system is cold. That's why exhaust systems rust from the inside out. The water is a byproduct of the combustion of gasoline. The same happens when kerosene or JP fuel is burned in a turbine. Sorry I missed this interesting discussion today. Been catching up on a bunch of domestic projects. I still don't see, after having read the posts above, 1) That there is more than one class of "trails," and 2) What the "chem" is in "chemtrails." While I can understand your frustration at groundresonance persistence in asking certain questions, you should not call him a shill. He is asking quite reasonable questions. A lot of what we have learned about 911 comes from people who have looked at evidence very carefully and seen and identified what others have not see before. But it behooves all of us to look just as carefully and critically when looking at things like photographic evidence. Take for example, this image: Upon close examination, the contrails from this aircraft line up with the engines, and do not issue from the ailerons as was claimed by a poster here. (Or more accurately from the elevators, which is what I think he meant.) Flying across the Atlantic a couple of months ago, I had a lot of clear sky on the way over and was able to observe traffic at our altitude coming the other direction a number of kilometers north and traffic flying below flying east. I noted that contrails often don't condense until they are sometimes well aft of the rear control surfaces. Hence what you see here. I guess what I'm saying with all this is that if you say there is a phenomenon X, it's up to you to show evidence for it. And when you provide evidence for it, make sure that it's good evidence. I'm willing to entertain any sort of hypothesis that implicates our masters in some sort of devilry. Lord we're used to it. But let's stick to facts and good evidence. That's all that groundresonance has been asking for, and no I don't think he's shilling for anyone.
Yet earlier you were equating contrails and chemtrails with retardant drops. That's a bit intellectually dishonest, wouldn't you say?
i was pointing out that a fully loaded 747 could only haul enough retardant to make a swath five miles long, let alone haul enough... whatever... to produce hours of "chemtrails".
of course, it's way too simple to acknowledge the fact that your "chemtrails" are contrails, formed by water, which is produced by burning the tons of fuel carried by the aircraft.
just out of curiosity... what is the purpose of your supposed "chemtrails"?
Did or did not groundresonance state the following? a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet... Now if you look at a trail, whether it's a regular contrail or a chemtrail, it is 3 dimensional, is it not? Cubic feet is a measure of volume (ie. 3 dimensional space) buck, in case you didn't know. The thing is, the LENGTH is MUCH greater than the circular cross section, where the circular cross section of a regular contrail might be say 30 feet in diameter. Since area of a circle is Pi * (radius)Squared, or Pi * (diameter/2)Squared, then 3.14 * (15)Squared is 706.5 square feet. So every 10 feet of length gives you 7065 cubic feet of water vapor, from what he claims, in the area of what he claims as "thousands of cubic feet per gallon". SO, if this were true, and since there are 5280 feet in a mile, then there would have to be 528 gallons of water per mile, or 2640 gallons in five miles. If the water comes from the jet fuel, and even IF there was a 100% conversion of jet fuel to water (which of course there isn't), then the jet would burn 2650 gallons of fuel every 5 miles. In order to fly 500 miles, it'd have to burn 265,000 gallons of fuel. Jets can fly THOUSANDS of miles, yet a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel, and only consumes about 5 gallons per mile, not 528 or more. See where this is going?
There are published papers which detail weather modification by aerosol spraying. However, various toxic substances have been detected from "strands of spider web-like material" which have fallen from the sky following chemtrail activity which reveal the purpose might be more nefarious.
Yet you claim the water from contrails comes solely from the combustion products of jet fuel, where the maximum fuel capacity of a 747 would be nowhere close to that necessary to form ongoing contrails for hundreds of miles, even if the combustion resulted in a 100% conversion of fuel to water.
and when that fuel is burned, it produces about 50,000 gallons of water. when that water is emitted as water vapor, it occupies much more space than it does when it's in liquid form. It will take about 15,965 cubic feet of air at that temperature and humidity to hold 1 gallon of water.
toxic substances so "chemtrails" are being used to... what? ...cool the planet, or warm the planet? please post evidence of increased mortality under high density "chemtrail" traffic areas.
Actually it would be more accurate to say too "simplistic". The observed phenomena is not consistent with the known physical properties of naturally formed contrails both in terms of persistence and that they are formed at altitudes well below that of natural contrails. Again you attempt to suggest alternatives to the obvious in hopes that your alternatives will be taken up regardless of their inability to account for the observed data. Despite your attempts to degrade and downplay the conclusions apparent in the actual observed events and phenomena you consistently do little more than try to divert providing nothing definite to support whatever thesis you have and will not state nor back up with sound reasoning taking into account all aspects of the observed events.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
and when that fuel is burned, it produces about 50,000 gallons of water. That's for an ENTIRE max range flight of 6100 statute miles, where on the other hand it'd take 265,000 gallons to create a 500 mile long contrail from your claims on water density in terms of water vapor. And that's not even attacking the claim you make here, where you claim there is OVER a 100% conversion of kerosene to water. Hell, maybe they should just burn kerosene out there in the desert and drink all that water it makes.
what's the minimum cubic feet necessary in a contrail to make it visible from the ground?
First off, why does the government ridicule and silence those who even ASK what those jets are up to? Secondly, here's the answer to your question; Do a Google search for "chemtrail illness" Results 1 - 10 of about 138,000 for chemtrail illness
it's not my fault you are so ignorant of basic chemistry.
i didnt say anything about "chemtrail illness" i repeat my request: please post evidence of increased mortality under areas of high "chemtrail" traffic, please post results of postmortems blaming those deaths on substances found in "chemtrails".
Doesn't matter what I say, you'd find a way to question it. Thing is, contrails ARE visible from the ground, just as CHEMTRAILS are, and there is not enough water converted from kerosene in jet fuel to create contrails, it comes from the water vapor present in the air which the jets are flying through for the most part. IF the water vapor were solely from the combustion products, then virtually EVERY jet would leave contrails at cruising altitude, and it's quite obvious that they don't. In fact, you use a 747 as an example, yet small military fighters leave contrails just like big commercial aircraft, yet carry MUCH less fuel.
and when that fuel is burned, it produces about 50,000 gallons of water. when that water is emitted as water vapor, it occupies much more space than it does when it's in liquid form. Again disengenuous and outright dishonest - through omission of key data. Natural contrails are only formed above 33,000 feet and consist of ice crystals i.e., frozen water vapor. They persist only until the ice cystals melt back into unobservable clear water vapor - which abounds in the atmosphere. 50,000 sounds like a big number, and I won't even bother to dispute it because what is relevant is that the water vapor only becomes visible as a contrail when frozen, and the conditions to do so vary with atmospheric density and temperature. A plane below the critical altitude where the water freezes into cystals flies merrily along nonetheless - and should ordinarily leave no visible contrail regardless of the amount of water vapor emitted in the exhaust as it does not freeze into reflective ice crystals. What you are doing is throwing shit against the wall hoping it will stick. Unfortunately for you, and your disinformation line, it is a slippery wall. One thing is apparent though is that you are twisting and turning in every attempt to deny what people have actually observed and photographed.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
if one gallon of jet fuel produces thousands of cubic feet of contrail, and the aircraft is burning a gallon a second, then what? assume an airplane is visible from the ground... how many cubic feet are in that airplane? if the airplane is visible, and it's producing contrails of equal or greater cubiic feet, we have to assume the contrail will be visible.
Do your own research. Do you think the TV tells you everything and anything there is to know, and that they are 100% honest in what the TV news DOES tell you? Do you think tightly controlled media outlets are going to research chemtrail related illnesses and do statistical research on it? Look up MKULTRA and the various LSD experiments they did, such as poisoning an entire town in France by spiking the local bakery's bread with LSD. Do you think the news media did health studies on that?
What he's saying is that you get more water by burning kerosene than the amount of kerosene itself. Like I said, perhaps instead of worrying about where to get water from, Middle Eastern nations should just burn that kerosene and drink all the water it makes.. LOL
in other words, you are unable to post evidence of increased mortality figures caused by chemtrails. all you have is complaints from chemtrail hypochondriacs.
Huh? Not hard to figure a plane's total volume, but how does that relate to either contrails or chemtrails in terms of water vapor?
Did you even bother clicking on any of the links returned by Google? You are one dishonest litle man groundresonance. You must be a sleeper, as you appeared to be a good guy on other threads.
how much does a gallon of gasoline weigh? ...say 7 pounds. how much does the co2 weigh as a combustion product of burning 7 pounds of gas? over 19 pounds? ...how can that be? well, it cant be if you're ignorant of chemistry, can it?
Yeah, and so what?
So you're saying you can get more water from a gallon of gas than you can from a gallon bottle of water, correct?
if an airplane occupies thousands of cubic feet, and is visible from the ground, then, if the airplane is producing a contrail that occupies thousands of cubic feet every second, it's likely that contrail will be visible.
Hell, those fires in the WTC towers should have just put themselves right out with all that water than came from the fire, eh?
And if a coin has two sides, it has more than one side. Are you trying the philosophical approach now?
apparently you cant read. i said you got 19 pounds of co2, not water, from burning 7 pounds of gasoline. you get just a little less water from burning a gallon of gas than you'd get from a gallon jug of water, assuming your water supplier is honest.
You said you get 50,000 gallons of water from 48,445 gallons of kerosene, don't lie.
kerosene is not gasoline. kerosene produces more water than gasoline when it burns, not much, but some.
and when that fuel is burned, it produces about 50,000 gallons of water Are you trying to say you didn't make the above post?
are you saying that you cant read?
So you're saying I can get more water from a glass of kerosene than I can from a glass of water, eh?
I'm saying that you are full of shit, and that's not even counting the gas/kerosene to water thing.
yup. if your combustion is complete, and you have a good way to condense the water out of the combustion exhaust, you will get more water from burning a glass of kerosene than you would from the same glass filled with water.
I'm saying that you are full of shit, and that's not even counting the gas/kerosene to water thing. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
yup. if your combustion is complete, and you have a good way to condense the water out of the combustion exhaust, you will get more water from burning a glass of kerosene than you would from the same glass filled with water. And the formula for that chemical equation is?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Even IF there was a unity conversion or slightly higher in terms of transforming kerosene to water, there is barely enough fuel capacity on a 747 to fly 1000 miles or so according to your kerosene to water and contrail density claims, yet it has an actual range of 6100 miles.
C12H26: C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ
Why should he let a little trifle like physical impossibility get in the way of a good disinformation line?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ Not even a good cut and paste job, it's not even a valid equation with all the HTML remnants you have in there. You do realize the result of the equation is in terms of energy (Joules, or kilo Joules to be specific), not gallons or pounds, right?
if a 747 holds 48,000 gallons, and it burns a gallon a second (meanwhile, producing a gallon of water each second), that 747 will have enough fuel to fly 13 hours.
take it up with wikipedia, or look up the reaction elsewhere. The combustion reaction can be approximated as follows, with the molecular formula C12H26: C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ
No shit Sherlock, but for it to create the amount of water you claim exists in a contrail, even WITH the conversion of kerosene to water which you claim (you're claiming the engine is combusting the kerosene COMPLETELY and running at 100% efficiency for your conversion claims to "hold water"), for the contrails formed to have the density you claim, the 747 would have to burn a LOT more fuel than the 1 gallon per second that it DOES burn.
the water is formed by a combination of hydrogen in the fuel and oxygen in the air. just as the co2 is formed by a combination of carbon in the fuel and oxygen in the air. you are too ignorant of chemistry to understand the basic mechanisms at work, here... which is why you have no business posting on this thread.
Close but no cigar. The combustion reaction in a Jet Engine (Aviation Fuel) in general terms is: CnH2n+2 + (3n+1)/2 O2 => n CO2 + (n + 1) H2O Which does not account for your claim on the production of water vapor (before crystalization) as being greater than unity. However, this is all a diversion from the main point which is that it does not demonstrate how contrails are formed at altitudes under 33,000 feet since the atmospheric temperature is not cold enough to promote the rapid formation of ice cystals from the water vapor exiting the exhaust.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
"unity" has nothing to do with it, seeing as how the chemical reaction is sustained by grabbing oxygen out of the atmosphere.
Don't give it away - I was having a good laugh.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Still dodging and weaving. Sigh.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
here's another equation for the combustion of kerosene: 2C12H26 (l) + 37O2(g) ---> 24CO2(g) + 26H2O(g) [AH.rxn = -1.50 x104 kJ] so it looks like we take two molecules of kerosene and 37 molecules of O2 oxygen, then burn them to get 24 molecules of co2 and 26 molecules of water. now then, you can plug in the atomic weights and densities and all that and calculate how much water, in volume of liquid water, you get from a gallon of kerosene.
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails". neat how that works, huh?
The proper formula is as follows; C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) → 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); Δ H° = -7513 kJ And the result is in units of energy (ie. energy produced by the combustion), not mass.
but really, the operative thing here is that not enough water is produced from the total fuel capacity of a 747 to fly a little over 1000 miles if your claims on contrail density are correct.
i will explain one more time: the fuel aboard the aircraft combines, during combustion, with air in the atmosphere to produce more mass, after combustion, than is carried on the airplane.
You certainly think you're convincing people here with your smoke and mirrors, eh? The fact is, it is UNKNOWN what the CHEMTRAILS consist of, and it may well not be water vapor. If they were, then there wouldn't be any problem, but it wouldn't make sense to go to the expense of producing water based trails DELIBERATELY. Other gases react differently than water, such as CO2 as it melts from dry ice to gas, or various other fogs created for stage events for instance. I'm sure there are a few other fogs that can be created that have nothing to do with water vapor, and utilize much less material than that needed to form REGULAR contrails.
apparently every molecule of kerosene grabs 16 and a half molecules of O2 out of the atmosphere during combustion. since kerosene has more hydrogen in it than gasoline, and the hydrogen combines with atmospheric oxygen to form water, kerosene produces more water than gasoline does, and even produces more volume of water than the original volume of kerosene. now that's just how it is, and no amount of ignorance can obscure that fact.
good. we're making headway.
You have already said that. Thing is, there is a very slight difference between the original mass of fuel and the final mass of water, under COMPLETE and CLEAN combustion. Even WITH that in mind, your claims don't add up.
now then, seeing as how "chemtrails" are such a dire, if undocumented threat to human life, why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
Thing is, you were trying to equate the mass required to form CHEMTRAILS with that required to lay down 5 miles of flame retardant powder. YOU started this BS with that absurd claim, and your numbers STILL don't add up in terms of fuel required to create REGULAR contrails if the contrail density is as you claim. But again, that is just a non-sequitor you tossed out to confuse the discussion.
Call your nearest Air Force base and ask them.
if a 747, loaded with 48,000 gallons of fuel, burns a gallon a second (while producing a little over a gallon of water in that same second), then the 747 will have enough fuel to run for 13 hours. if the 747 burns a gallon a second, it burns 60 gallons a minute, or 3600 gallons an hour. if it burns 3600 gallons of kerosene an hour, that means it's also producing 3600 gallons of water per hour, or about 14.4 tons of water per hour. that water, as water vapor, spreads out in the atmosphere as it cools, condenses and freezes in tiny droplets that are visible as a cloud of condensation, aka contrails. what's so hard to understand about all that?
you know, people can bicker back and forth about this until time ends. the simple fact of the matter is that vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal, and it's beyond absurd, borderline retarded for anyone to even suggest so. debate over. next?
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 Call your nearest Air Force base and ask them. in other words, you cant explain why, of the thousands of bizjets available, nobody cares enough about "chemtrails" rent a jet and go up and take a sample.
yup, you're right. if god had meant us to fly, he'd have given us rotorblades.
neat how that works, huh? Spoken like a true "B" Student in H.S. General Science leaving out the key component provision i.e., at a specified altitude and temperature because ALL of the conditions have to be met for natural contrails to form. Keep trying though I just love the way you wipe the drool off your chin at each misstep. Just try not to get it on the carpet. K'?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
you know, people can bicker back and forth about this until time ends. the simple fact of the matter is that vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal, and it's beyond absurd, borderline retarded for anyone to even suggest so. debate over. next? Thank you, and agreed. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I don't personally know all the people who own business jets, so I can't speak for them. Go ask them, not me.
dont bother posting any more pictures of "chemtrails" unless you also post the pressure altitude, temperature and relative humidity of the air mass the airplane was flying through.
I'll post whatever I damn well please and allow the objective readers who have an open MIND to judge the available data based on their own observations. Your continually reliance on one absurdity after another is amusing though.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And what does any of that have to do with chemtrails? Basically, you're talking about water, and neither you nor I have any idea what those chemtrails TRULY consist of. And BTW, I already did the fairly straightforward analysis of what would be required in terms of fuel if the water density was a little over 1 gallon per 7000 cubic feet, and you later posted that it was closer to what, 1 gallon per 16,000 cubic feet. So my original result was you'd have to burn 528 gallons of fuel per mile to produce the 1 gallon per 7000 cubic foot density, so for 16,000 cubic feet, it'd be 528 / (16/7) or 231 gallons per mile, yet a 747 only burns 5 gallons per mile. In essence, you are full of shit.
if you cant prove the airplane was outside the appleman chart, then you're wasting your time, and you're wasting the time of people who are honestly trying to understand contrails.
in the absence of any proof of "chemtrail's" existence, in the presence of accepted explanations for observed contrails, including supposed "chemtrails", maybe we could do a little hacking at this problem with occam's razor.
that is truly ther extent of the depth that i get into such things. vomit colored tic tac toe grids? gimme a break. it's the devil people again, up to no good. simple as that.
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 And as I mentioned earlier, I don't know of many or any business jet owners who would attempt to get his pilot to chase a military plane to sniff it's trail, and even if they DID, how exactly do you think they'd take the sample? Unless it's a specialized research plane with sophisticated sampling equipment, you can't collect the sample. You can't just stick your hand out the window at 40,000 feet altitude or so and grab a paper bag of it...
you guys cant post any proof of support infrastructure, you cant explain why none of your "chemtrail" fans are willing to rent a plane and take samples. you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose. you cant estimate how many observed contrails are, in fact, "chemtrails", you cant explain why you cant come up with airtight, irrefutable proof of "chemtrails" existence. all you can do is post pictures of uncertain provenance, pictures completely lacking in pertinent flight data.
So if this phenomena only recently started occuring in the 90's, and jets have been flying since the 40's or 50's, then Occam's razor dictates it's not a normal contrail. Find me ANY image prior to 1990 of anything that looks like what is called a CHEMTRAIL. Matter of fact, I HAVE seen REGULAR jets leaving CONTRAILS in the same sky as those leaving CHEMTRAILS, and flying roughly in the same airspace and altitude, not long before or after the chemtrail jet laid it's spray. So it IS something different, whether you personally acknowledge the fact or not.
People used to ridicule early scientists who tried to inform the world that many diseases were caused by germs, since nobody could see them, and nobody could show motality studies of what those germs caused, since people didn't believe they existed in the first place. Try again.
sorry. you are an unreliable witness, especially in absence of proof, and most especially given your ignorance of basic chemistry.
Just do a bit of Googling and you can find MANY instances of respiratory illness and flu-like symptoms, whose increased incidence coincides with heavy chemtrail activity.
As are you, especially since you refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that CHEMTRAILS did NOT exist prior to the 1990's. As I said, find me ANY picture from before that time which shows contrail formations similar to that seen today in CHEMTRAIL formations.
But that was a Tuesday and we all know that 747's bank left on Wednesday. /gruntresonance
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
you guys dont seem to have any idea of the scale of this supposed "chemtrail" operation. if the operation had any scale to it at all, wouldnt there be paper trails, too? wouldnt there be ground support equipment? wouldnt there be mechanics who installed the machinery on the airplanes? wouldnt there be lab workers who fabricated whatever it is that's supposedly being sprayed? wouldnt there be people who, out of a sense of self-preservation, would blow a whistle? and what about the people making money on this "chemtrail" industry? wouldnt they be well-served to hire a jet to take conclusive samples, witnessed by people of unimpeachable character?
a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet... Now if you look at a trail, whether it's a regular contrail or a chemtrail, it is 3 dimensional, is it not? Cubic feet is a measure of volume (ie. 3 dimensional space) buck, in case you didn't know. The thing is, the LENGTH is MUCH greater than the circular cross section, where the circular cross section of a regular contrail might be say 30 feet in diameter. Since area of a circle is Pi * (radius)Squared, or Pi * (diameter/2)Squared, then 3.14 * (15)Squared is 706.5 square feet. So every 10 feet of length gives you 7065 cubic feet of water vapor, from what he claims, in the area of what he claims as "thousands of cubic feet per gallon". SO, if this were true, and since there are 5280 feet in a mile, then there would have to be 528 gallons of water per mile, or 2640 gallons in five miles. If the water comes from the jet fuel, and even IF there was a 100% conversion of jet fuel to water (which of course there isn't), then the jet would burn 2650 gallons of fuel every 5 miles. In order to fly 500 miles, it'd have to burn 265,000 gallons of fuel. Jets can fly THOUSANDS of miles, yet a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel, and only consumes about 5 gallons per mile, not 528 or more. See where this is going? Wow, I never expected this thread to get more than a few comments. I'm no scientist, that's for sure. After grade 12 chemistry I swore to never take a science class again. In university they made me take 1 science course in the first year so I took the one psychology course that qualified as a science course. I'm relying on simple knowledge and a reasonably good memory (they weren't around 20 years ago) to know that chemtrails stretching across the sky and spreading into a thin white haze are not contrails. I tend to agree with randge that ground resonance is not a shill. If he is he's a lousy one. Although he uses disinfo-like arguing tactics, I think he's just doing that because he's made up his mind already and that's the only way he can argue his point. More disturbing to me than the actual chemtrails themselves is the public reaction or non-reaction to them by those who think they're contrails. "Oh foolish man, what can you not be made to believe?" - Adam Weishaupt
These are fairly sensible questions although you might try approaching the issue with an open mind since you seem relatively new to it and uninformed about it. “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance – that principle is contempt prior to investigation” (most popularly attributed to Herbert Spencer) you guys dont seem to have any idea of the scale of this supposed "chemtrail" operation. It's huge. if the operation had any scale to it at all, wouldnt there be paper trails, too? There are. wouldnt there be ground support equipment? There must be. wouldnt there be mechanics who installed the machinery on the airplanes? Of course. wouldnt there be lab workers who fabricated whatever it is that's supposedly being sprayed? Probably at least some. wouldnt there be people who, out of a sense of self-preservation, would blow a whistle? Not necessarily, although some have. and what about the people making money on this "chemtrail" industry? The military industrial complex, oil industry and aluminum manufacturers (who make money off fluoride being put in water and toothpaste?) wouldnt they be well-served to hire a jet to take conclusive samples, witnessed by people of unimpeachable character? People have done that if I remember right.
Forgot to ping you to the last two posts.
seems to me you'd have real evidence of such a "huge" operation, other than photographs that give people no clue as to the altitude of the airplane, or the temperature and humidity of the air mass at that altitude. please post documentary evidence of "chemtrail" spray operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please post evidence of support machinery used in "chemtrail" operations, other than normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please post verifiable testimony from mechanics who are involved in installing and/or maintaining "chemtrail" equipment on airplanes or ground support machinery, other than that used in normal agricultural or fire suppression operations. please tell us what chemicals are being sprayed, and why they're being sprayed, please post evidence of chemical fabrication labs, please post testimony from chemists involved in fabricating the chemicals used in "chemtrail" operations. please explain why people involved in the "huge" "chemtrail" industry are so unconcerned about their own well-being that they are not blowing whistles, left, right and center. the people making money of the supposed "chemtrail" operation are, in the absence of any evidence of "chemtrails" existence, people selling patent medicines to cure "chemtrail" hypochondfiacs, and people who sell website ads to people who prey on gullible "chemtrail" believers. please post evidence obtained by a "chemtrail" profiteer hiring a jet, taking samples of "chemtrails" while scrupulously following rules of evidence, and submitting those samples to a reputable lab.
Why should I?
...to prove you can? *shrug*
And what if I don't?
then i guess we'll have to assume you're full of horse pucky when it comes to "chemtrails"... *shrug*
Assume all you like.
okay
oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb...html&identifier=ADD001671
library.binarydissent.com...R_CONTRAIL_GENERATION.pdf
of the 85 or 90 thousands flights per day in america, how many of them are equipped with this "Powder Contrail Generation" device? what are they spreading with this device? what is the spreading of this... whatever it is... supposed to accomplish?
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978STIN...8011299F
what are they spreading with this device? what is the spreading of this... whatever it is... supposed to accomplish? Hang on, I'm not done. Read all the links I've just posted and the ones I'm about to post and then let me know if you still have questions.
what is the spreading of this... whatever it is... supposed to accomplish? are we to assume that you have no idea whether or not any of these patents ever got off the drawing board? are we to assume that you have no idea whether or not any of these experiments ever came into common practice?
why are you posting HAARP stuff into a thread about "chemtrails" when HAARP is a ground-based experiment?
STFU and Look Down - Nothing to see here! Here are a shitload other patents that relate to weather manipulation. Who knows what chemicals they are spraying on us to get these ones going. Go here http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.htm and search for any of these patent numbers Patent # / Date / Description 2409201 – October 15, 1946 – Smoke Producing Mixture 2688069 – August 31, 1954 – Steam Generator – Referenced in 3990987 3127107 – March 31, 1964 – Generation of Ice-Nucleating Crystals 3429507 – February 25, 1969 – Rainmaker 3587966 – June 28, 1971 – Freezing Nucleation 3677840 – July 18, 1972 – Pyrotechnics Comprising Oxide of Silver For Weather Modification Use 3835293 – September 10, 1974 – Electrical Heating Aparatus For Generating Super Heated Vapors – Referenced in 3990987 3992628 – November 16, 1976 – Countermeasure system for laser radiation 4347284 – August 31, 1982 – White cover sheet material capable of reflecting ultraviolet rays 4643355 – February 17, 1987 – Method and apparatus for modification of climatic conditions 4836086 – June 6, 1989 – Apparatus and method for the mixing and diffusion of warm and cold air for dissolving fog 5041834 – August 20, 1991 – Artificial ionospheric mirror composed of a plasma layer which can be tilted 5286979 – February 15, 1994 – Process for absorbing ultraviolet radiation using dispersed melanin 5486900 – January 23, 1996 – Measuring device for amount of charge of toner and image forming apparatus having the measuring device 5984239 – November 16, 1999 – Weather modification by artificial satellite 6315213 – November 13, 2001 – Method of modifying weather You're not actually reading any of the links ARE you?
how many of those patents got off the drawing board? you have no evidence of anything other than patents? ...is that what we're supposed to believe?
Results 1 - 10 of about 6,230 for patent "better mouse trap".
Results 1 - 10 of about 48,500 for EASTLUND HAARP
www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html
aha. so all this "chemtrail" business is an attempt to stop global warming. how's that gonna go down with the resident global warming deniers?
all you got to do now is rent a jet, sample some "chemtrails", take the samples to a lab, and prove that there's anything in the samples but water vapor...
Chemtrail Content Analysis from Different Sources If there is no global warming then it must be for something else. But the government wouldn't lie would it?
sorry, you're gonna have to present evidence, taken directly from the "chemtrails". and you're gonna have to come up with evidence other than that provided by carnicom, which should be easy to do, given the supposed scale of the "chemtrail" operation.
is carnicom a shoestring operation, or could he and... say, alex jones, chip in for a little plane ride to gather direct evidence of "chemtrail" spraying? according to you "chemtrail" adepts, there's no problem telling the difference between contrails and "chemtrails", so it ought to be a pretty straightfoward operation.
That'd be nice and I'm surprised if someone hasn't done it yet. It should be done. I suspect you wouldn't believe the results anyway.
and it would be a good thing for you guys to get on the same page or pages... are "chemtrails" meant to fight global warming, are they meant to poison americans, or both? or are they merely one more tool used by fringe propagandists to terrorize, confuse, divide and conquer americans?
I think they're used as weather manipulation and/or sophisticated weaponry.
They're all over the planet.
if every commercial airliner took samples of bleed air off the turbines, or had a connection to the pitot system that sampled the air, and if those samples were analyzed and the results published every day, then i'd be inclined to believe them. meanwhile, you guys have no proof of anything, except "proof" from people who seem to be making a living by terrorizing americans.
ah so it's a global conspiracy... every jet in the world burns fuel that's contaminated with bugs or reflective agents or poisonous substances... or... every plane in the world is equipped with invisible spray gear. and we still cant figure out if we're being sprayed to prevent global warming, or if they're trying to kill us. or both
'groundresonance' If he doesn't just have a bad case of the dumb, he's a shill. Either way I don't give a fuck. Pardon my French.
if you cant post evidence of "chemtrails" from reputable sources, and you're unable to explain why, if "chemtrails" are such a threat, no billionaire has gone up in his gulfstream and sampled "chemtrails", i dont know what to say... ...except you're on very shaky ground.
Chemtrail Plane Photographed Recently, a pilot sent www.data4science.net several images of a plane which is clearly rigged for aerial chemtrail or biological spraying taxiing on the ground at an airport in Canada. After studying and researching the plane images and origin, I feel they are authentic. Why do I suggest the plane might be used for biological spraying? Previously released photos of acknowledged experimental spray planes built for NASA had massive concentric rings mounted on the rear tail of the plane. C – Semi-circle black lines along the bottom are probably air intake screens. Being on the underside of the pod, they would be exposed to the high pressure flow of air under the wing. CIA’s Evergreen Air seems to be working doubletime. Reports are that these chemicals being sprayed into our breathable atmosphere without our consent or knowledge include barillium, aluminum oxides, silicon-based nano-organisms, gold dust, genetically engineered viruses and bacteria including E.coli and salmonella, ethylene dibromide, pseudomonas aeruginosa, serratia marcescens, and other toxic substances designed to lower our immune systems – among other things. Evergreen Air is based out of the Pinal airbase in Marana, AZ where 707s and various other aircraft have their wings taken off and are retrofitted with sprayer apparatus. Google Earth photos of the airbase and dismembered sprayer planes in various stages of construction follow below. here's the thing: in the case of 9/11, we've got reputable people coming forward, questioning the official story. none of you "chemtrail" experts seems to be able to come up with any comparably reputable people who support this "chemtrail" business. why is that? if we got reputable people with courage enough to throw the 9/11 shit back in the government's face, why dont we have reputable people with guts enough to throw "chemtrails" in the government's face? why are "chemtrails" such a loonytunes operation?
those tanks have been explained as a ballast system to shift the center of gravity of the airplane as it does test flights. that evergreen 747 you posted earlier is an air tanker for fighting forest fires. why cant you post pictures of the actual spray apparatus mounted on evergreen airplanes?
why would they take the wings off to change engines, or install that goofy- looking gadget in the exhaust? can you provide any more pictures of that engine nozzle lashup, pictures with some provenance?
when an aircraft has to jettison fuel, how does it do it? how would you shift the center of gravity of an airplane on a test flight, other than having tanks plumbed up to pump water back and forth?
I think you may very well be right about this one.
if this "chemtrail" business is global, and it's an effort to sicken and kill... how many...? millions...? billions...? of people, dont you think there are doctors that would raise hell about the operation? have you never heard of the hippocratic oath? are you telling me that doctors are too ignorant to spot epidemic barium or aluminum poisoning? ...or are you saying that doctors are so corrupt, worldwide, that they arent raising cain?
...or are you saying that doctors are so corrupt, worldwide, that they arent raising cain? Yes and... Yes.
you think all doctors are so corrupt, as a group, that not one of them will come forward to protest "chemtrail" poisoning, supposing for the sake of argument that it existed.
Well, if you are testing a big plane, invite a huge weight watcher's group and make sure they are hungry. Then have a fast and fit man with a chocolate cake run up and down the inside of the plane with them in chase. Of course, if they caused the plane to crash due to stampede control problems, you'd have to put survivors on trial and hope the Dan White twinkie defense gets them off with only manslaughter.
i think pumping water back and forth might be easier and maybe even cheaper... unless you could pay the fat folks in chocolate cake.
you ever get hit by a retardant drop?
Heehee, good answer. I used to hve to caculate weight and balance as a helicopter crew chief in the Army. Here is a link to some of the terms used. WEIGHT AND BALANCE TERMS AND DEFINITIONS They are interesting and serve to give a taste of the subject enough to let one know there is a big class in physics involved when you talk about understanding calculating weight and balance on an aircraft. I would feel nervous on any aircraft experimenting with weight and balance that way. Personally I would prefer to be in the ground in front of a screen playing with computer weight and balance software than being up there trusting the computers and equipment were doing everything properly doing that sort of test flight.
Nope. I was a tree planter the same time I fought fires and was in very good shape and am very aircraft aware. I know what a retardant drop plane and it's spotter looks like, and I know the track they run doing drops. I have yelled "RETARDANT!" while diving for a leaner tree where I escaped the drench and watched the green, newbies get a bath. Nasty stuff. No, as an aircraft familiar person I have nearly been hurt at spike camp when a helicopter punched off it's swing load hook and long cable near me when I was ground guiding a craft to drop supplies from a high performance hover, out of ground effect. And I had a Bell 212 crash into a truck I was standing next to scaring the piss out of me as I swam in the road gravel after dropping to my belly as trained in the Army. The main rotor ground into the road eight feet from my legs. That was a Weyerhauser bird, I was working on a forest fertilization contract when that happened
yeah, it's nice to have the load in the right place in the helicopter. there was this driller, must have weighed close to 300 pounds, used to like to sit as far in the back as he could, and i'd be bumping the forward stop on the cyclic when i tried to nose over... s55T then there were the alouette IIIs, and empty with a lightweight pilot, you'd hit the foward stop on the cyclic, too.
lots of iron in the air when a helicopter crashes... or at least, stuff that would feel like iron if it got you at a couple hundred miles an hour. not good.
I enjoyed being a crew chief on a UH-1H and had pilots that I really enjoyed having fly my bird, 70-16450, and others that were scary. Slick ships doing air mobile work are forgiving of load variances. I had the back up command console bird, and it was when I had the equipment and dumb butter bar officers were on board I had to do the DD Form 365-4 figuring out weight and balance. Although, getting the shave tailed Lts not to screw up my radios, and to listen to my instructions as a buck sergeant was a bigger head ache usually. The UH-1H has two positions to mount the 48 lb NiCad battery to adjust the weight and balance, that's about it for that old a bird.
it's a wonder anyone survived.
It was not fun. They have a tractor tail rotor that has a unique sound to my ear more used to standard tail rotor design equiped Hueys. The pilot did too fast a petal turn with a heavy swing load while transitioning from a high hover to forward flight. I heard the roter zip off and hit the ground before I looked. I have had close calls before and I respect what can happen. I am not ashamed to say I pissed in my pants when I thought it was about to hit me. Though in my defense, I was the first on the bird jettisoning the pilot's door, helping him get the inertia reel harness off of him and to help him get out. He was a Vietnam war vet pilot, head of Weyco aviation's pilots. A reall hot dog of a pilot. He got some nice bruises from that. He had crashed OH-6 helicopters a couple of times whle in the service.
dale?
Do you know of one that's come forward to protest?
what if there's nothing to protest?
There is.
that's what you apparently believe, but there doesnt seem to be any evidence. and you're so dead set on believing in "chemtrails" that you're willing to believe every doctor in the world is willing to sweep "chemtrail" deaths under the rug. that seems to be kinda unlikely, to me.
Howard, big burley sort of guy. This happened near Allegany Oregon way up into coastal Weyco forest a ways into the 5000 line. They later replaced the 214 with used one. They are a nice version of the Huey, but that's a tight fit for that twin pack of a opair of free power turbine engines. And the pre-coned, underslung and semi rigid main rotor is dry, and like the 540 rotor of Colbras. The biggest gripe I had with our grips was how the seals would degrade, oiling out the top of the bird. teflon bearings is definately the best way to go with those birds.
This is one of the best threads I have ever read; I have it bookmarked which is very rare for me. Thank you, all.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
that's what you apparently believe, but there doesnt seem to be any evidence. and you're so dead set on believing in "chemtrails" that you're willing to believe every doctor in the world is willing to sweep "chemtrail" deaths under the rug. that seems to be kinda unlikely, to me. It took nearly 9 years for Architects and Engineers to begin speaking up in any volume on all of the impossibilities of the government's 911 Fairy Tale, and they are nowhere as near as dependent on the good graces of government as are Doctors. As well Doctors live in a very insular world and if it is not published in one of their journals, or told them by a Big Pharma Rep., most of them simply will not see or acknowledge anything outside of their, in many ways, limited world view.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
All of what you say is true, but the websites that some of you have posted say things like "testing for barium was carried out," but it doesn't say by whom or under what auspices. The footnotes contain references to encyclopedia articles and such. That doesn't inspire much confidence. When someone like Mr. Dirt makes a positive assertion like "There were Arabs on those planes," or "The hijacker's names are on the flight manifests," I look for positive evidence to support the claim. I really don't see it here. I have an open mind, but I want to see more than what I see here. Instead of pushing the gov't shill button, you guys need to work a bit harder on presenting solid evidence.
educate-yourself.org/ct/goodbyects10jan02.shtml You call this loony tunes?!?!? LOL! The fix only requires some copper pipe, crystals and resin. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I remember when the sky was a much clearer color of blue. Where there's no evidence, is there no crime?
you believe doctors everywhere are so corrupt that they are, in violation of their hippocratic oath, sweeping "chemtrail" deaths under the rug. you must have a very low opinion of humanity. yet you say your wife is pregnant again, seven months after she gave birth to a child. what on earth possesses you to continue to impregnate your wife when you believe your children are facing such a dismal future? have you no self-control?
I know what a contrail looks like and I know what I have seen. You are free, and welcome, to dispute any chemical analysis of the residue. However, I trust my own awareness and observational abilities and I am neither undeducated nor stupid. So, agree or disagree as is your prerogative, but do not try to pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Some planes produce contrails, and some produce that phenomena we call Chemtrails. That something is going on, and that there is a program of spraying "something" is in my mind undeniable as I have seen it on more than one occasion. Some of those occasions have literally covered the sky from horizon to horizon with wispy persistent trails that spread and combine into a hazy layer setting in the atmosphere for hours on end. That is not a known or normal characteristic of a normal contrail which consists of ice crystals only which rapidly dissipate as the crystals melt. The phenomenon known as Chemtrails does exist, and it appears to be part of an ongoing program/project of some kind. I am not privy to the inner workings of such, apparently, government sponsored and produced programs, but I can observe that it is taking place. Make of it as you will, believe the denials and the so-called debunkers and disinformation specialists if you please, but that does not change the reality one whit.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
you believe doctors everywhere are so corrupt that they are, in violation of their hippocratic oath, sweeping "chemtrail" deaths under the rug. you must have a very low opinion of humanity. yet you say your wife is pregnant again, seven months after she gave birth to a child. what on earth possesses you to continue to impregnate your wife when you believe your children are facing such a dismal future? have you no self-control? You have learned well young Sith. Crush their spirit, make them feel worthless and in awe of your magnificence. Destroy that which is good, and seek to increase your power on the wreckage you hope to create. Begone back to the Hell from which you have sprung. Your evil and vileness are not welcome.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I haven't read anything by any debunkers or disinfo artists on this topic, mostly because I haven't really had much interest in this subject and haven't really thought about it much. Don't see to much in the sky where I live to cause me alarm or suspicion, but I'll be looking skywards now and then to see what I can see. I ain't here to dis you, and I look forward to anything more you have to post on this topic.
Thanks. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Results 11 - 20 of about 426,000 for contrail cirrus
42 unique top-ten pages selected from at least 4,129,350 matching results - on Chemtrails.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The longevity of both men and women in the US has been increasing. So, what on Earth are chem-trails all about beyond just water vapor?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
now all you got to decide is what the "chemtrails" are about... are they intended to shade the planet and reduce the effects of global warming? ...oh, but global warming cant be the reason for "chemtrails", because global warming, despite the hundreds of billions of tons of extra greenhouse gases deposited by humanity, doesnt exist. so the "chemtrails" must be intended to kill us off... ...except that nobody's coming forward with evidence of increased mortality due to "chemtrail" spraying... so what is your massive "chemtrail" operation intended to accomplish? or maybe a better question would be: does this "chemtrail" phenomenon even exist outside the imagination of people who are making money by selling patent remedies for "chemtrail sickness", or are hyping their fringe websites?
Good post, O_I. You know, that clown filter Neil put on here really does work. Just sayin'.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I have drawn no final conclusions other than that you are pathologically dishonest - as witnessed by your attempt to put words in my mouth. I have said that I do believe Chemtrails to be a phenomena unique from contrails, and the body of empirical evidence, no matter how hard you try to wiggle, supports that. At no point have I offered even a speculation as to what their purpose might be. Since I am not privy to the inside workings of the program I have no firm conclusion as to their purpose. I could speculate, but will not. Speculation I reserve for sharing with minds that are open, honest, and inquisitive. That leaves you out.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
why is there no "empirical evidence" of "chemtrails" from reputable scientific bodies, doctors, mechanics, pilots and "chemtrail" infrastructure support people?
why, if you are so dead sure you're able to tell the difference between "chemtrails" and contrails, are you unable to estimate the number of "chemtrail" flights out of the maybe 90,000 flights per day in the US?
Show me where I said my children are facing a dismal future?
Leave my wife and children out of this. And... Fuck off you low-life piece of shit scumbag before I begin to obsess over making your life a living nightmare.
ah. good. so you think the evil "chemtrail" conspiracy will be overcome by the forces of good in time for your children to lead normal, healthy, happy lives. in view of the complete absence of traction the "chemtrail" theory is getting in government, what makes you so optimistic?
Young friend, the one who goes by the designation groundresonance posts purely for the purposes of agitation and aggravation. Hie thyself off to the setup page and avail thyself of the wondrous clown filter. Posts of said varlet will disappear as if by magick.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Thanks. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Lets say there are intentional trace materials/compounds and so forth placed into "chemtrails." What is the reason for it in your opinion? This thread is too long not to speculate.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
But none of those other ways work quite as well.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I think it might be just a big scam in order that someone has the contracts to do this work. The amount of profit by a private company to carry out this operation must be an insane amount of money. The aluminum industry stands to benefit greatly from this as well. That and weather manipulation, sophisticated weaponry (scalar wave technology), in my opinion. Others speculate on such things as mind control, drugging the population, etc. I really don't know.
...and I really don't care. I just want it to stop.
what if atmospheric conditions, the laws of chemistry, and airplanes powered by internal combustion engines... what if all that makes it impossible to stop? what if "chemtrails" are a hoax, and short of stopping air traffic, there's no way of stopping contrails?
Data insufficient. We can observe on a qualitative basis that there is an observed phenomena, distinct from normal contrails, but there is insufficient data on the actual chemical composition. Chemicals such as Barium, Aluminum, and Titanium have been reported from private analysis. The composition could offer a suggestion as to the function but there seem to be conflicting analyses which suggests that: 1. The analyses were contaminated. OR 2. There is more than one program or function of the one program. Various speculations have been offered as to why but there is not a clear enough data set to weigh any one over another. The suggestions/speculations have included: 1. Weather Modification. 2. Increasing the power of HAARP by creating greater electromagnetic conduction in the atmosphere. and 3. Mitigation of Global Warming. One thing that sticks in my memory was that about 3, maybe 4, years ago a Congresscritter got motivated to include in a bill the requirement that the programs spraying disclose what they were spraying. Oddly the bill was killed and the Congresscritter, I forget which one, clammed up like nobody's business. That was one of those interesting little blips that make you look up and have a "hmmmmmmmmmm" moment. One of the things I have noticed, after being tipped off by someone else's comment, is that the heaviest spraying often occurs on the leading edge of a weather front. Why that would be I don't know, but it is a datum. However, that something is going on I can observe and note.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
and if these "chemtrails" are so harmless that you believe they wont harm your children, what difference does it make whether they stop, or not?
Oh, as annoying as it may be I like seeing what the disinfo posters are posting. It tells me what their masters are most concerned about. I have noticed that on most forums that there are a few topics that will bring the disinfo posters running as fast their chubby little feet will carry them. Chemtrails is one and some of the others are: 911 - particularly anything to do with the Pentagram bombing. Mind Control and Israel. No doubt that there are others on their list but those seem to be the priority topics.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I suspect you have greater tolerance for bs than I have. I am getting too old to read a lot of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. what if atmospheric conditions, the laws of chemistry, and airplanes powered by internal combustion engines... what if all that makes it impossible to stop? what if "chemtrails" are a hoax, and short of stopping air traffic, there's no way of stopping contrails? What if your mother had an abortion?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well, they give away a lot in the meandering dishonesty. That itself is data of a sort, and it tells me things I do want to know. As well I get to see what the latest disinfo line is as they try different ones to see if it "sticks".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
if you had any information with reputable provenance, you might have a leg to stand on... but apparently you're relying mostly on your own personal opinion, buttressed by quotes and urls from fringe websites. for instance... One of the things I have noticed, after being tipped off by someone else's comment, is that the heaviest spraying often occurs on the leading edge of a weather front. Why that would be I don't know, but it is a datum. i dont see a lot of reputable backup for those supposed "facts" or your conclusions.
if you're gonna convince anybody that you've got a case, you've got to give us something to go on, other than personal opinion... ...dont you? or are you somehow exempt from rational processes that eventually lead to the truth... assuming for the sake of argument that you're after the truth.
I am not hung up on having to have an "authority" tell me what I think. I am one of those odd critters you run into who can reach a conclusion based on the evidence alone. Novel idea that. I believe they call it "The Scientific Method".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I am one of those odd critters you run into who can reach a conclusion based on the evidence alone. too bad you cant produce any reputable evidence.
Where there's no evidence, is there no crime? Yeah, on 9/12/01 and about a week or so after that. The skies were blue. There is no evidence. There really isn't. I bet you didn't notice contrails at all until someone pointed them out to you by calling them chemtrails, then you started seeing them everywhere. That's what happened to me. You didn't notice them before because they are so common. That's all right though. I used to believe in them too. I don't anymore. If your mileage varies then that's OK. There's enough out there that we do agree on.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I don't bother playing Research Librarian for Shills. You are not interested in evidence you are interested in presenting disinformation If you want "Sympathy" you can find it in the Dictionary - between "shit" and "syphilis". May I reccomend the "Oxford New American English Dictionary"? It is really quite good.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yawn. I know what a contrail looks like. I know what a Chemtrail looks like. Despite your protestations they are NOT the same.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
...or more likely, it's just that you cant cough up reputable evidence.
I know what a Chemtrail looks like. Can you clearly show the technical differentiation in a couple of pictures or links?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
I know what a Chemtrail looks like. so it all boils down to you... and it seems to be getting so personal that we're no longer learning anything. you're unable to post any evidence, there's been page after page posted that explains the chemical and atmospheric conditions that cause contrails, there's no "chemtrail" that cant be a contrail. so unless you start producing evidence from reputable sources, we're kinda at a standstill. flag me when you come up with some evidence.
If I showed pictures or videos of the twin towers disintegrating on 9/11 to someone who believes they 'pancaked' due to airplanes hitting them would it make a difference?
It looks like 2 planes at different altitudes. There are different conditions at different altitudes. I see nothing special about the pic, other than one was labeled as a chemtrail. Saying it doesn't make it so. Sometimes what I ID in the past as "chemtrails" disappeared quickly, sometimes they spread out and merged. We only remember the whiteouts and forget the times there were no whiteouts. It would be interesting to get some meteorologists input on this, as well as pilots.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Your saying that means you do not understand what you are talking about. Normal contrails only form at 33,000 feet and above, and that is per the Air Force, whereas Chemtrails are frequently laid out at altitudes much lower. However, you did inadvertently swerve into the truth - there are different conditions at different altitudes. Unfortunately for the debunkers that actually works in favor of the Chemtrail Research arguments as contrails will not form at all at the lower altitudes that Chemtrails are often observed at.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Contrails (from condensation) follow the plane only a few lengths behind and dissipate quickly. Chemtrails (from sprayed mineral compounds) stay and spread across the sky into a haze. We only remember the whiteouts and forget the times there were no whiteouts. I remember when there were no 'whiteouts'. I remember a time 10 to 20 years ago when the sky was sometimes overcast with cloud cover, but never from chemtrails sprayed by airplanes.
No. Shills and people in debunkers are supremely unconcerned about facts. They have their "minds" made up and do not wish to be confused or even look.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Thank you. Your picture and YouTube presentation use a similar theme: a very high altitude jet aircraft is emitting water vapor and a relatively low flying jet aircraft has emitted water vapor. In the case of the "contrail" the water vapor quickly freezes changing the reflectivity index, so you don't see the apparent trail for very long based on the angle of the pictures to the craft and the angle of the Sun at that time. And for the lower flying jet aircraft wherein the "Chemtrail" appears to linger forever.... at the altitude flown, freezing did not occur. And there are other factors as well, air temperature, air velocity, time of day and actual chemical composition of the exhaust since air and jet fuel components need to be factored into the water vapor mixture that has been expelled. The trigger mechanism or ignition of 9/11 about the twin towers collapse was about jet aircraft pounding into the twin towers. Jet aircraft fuel is very flammable which leads us back into Chemtrails. That same combustion mixture (depending on the aircraft) gets transferred (although, very small trace amounts) into the exhausted water vapor. This leads to the variations you see in the sky.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
The ability to differentiate between truth and fiction, logic and fallacies and have enough open-mindedness to re-examine one's beliefs based on facts and use critical, independent thinking seems to be both a blessing and a curse at times.
That is not true. I'd post a pic of jets doing this, but I dont want anyone to say that they are spraying chemicals.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Concur. As an avid aviation buff I've been interested in aircraft ever since I was literally "knee high". My mom said that I would even point to the sky and say "ane, ane" - and usually before anyone could see it (I've always had good hearing). Back to the point - as an avid sky watcher I used to note and even look for contrails when I was a kid, and the conditions to form them are not as common as the dabunkers would like people to believe. Often I would see a plane go overhead at high altitude leaving no contrail. To have one leave a hazy lazy spreading one simply did not happen at all. Contrails have known characteristics and are formed by known processes - and a plane has to be at 33,000 feet altitude or above AND have the right atmospheric conditions. To take the duhbunkers attitude at face value one would have to believe that physical properties and the atmosphere had both changed radically since the late 80's.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well and good but the photo does not include one key element - TIME. Yes B-17's at high altitude would form contrails from the engine exhaust. However, there is nothing here that shows they persisted for any great length of time AND there were a good many four engined aircraft in the flight with each engine leaving a trail so one would expect more trails. That still disproves nothing.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's never a curse. It just becomes frustrating when one runs into illogical dogmatism. The old "my mind is made up now don't confuse me with the facts". Sadly, I have come to expect it from some percentage of people. It is a fact of life that some people simply will not, seem to be incapable of, reevaluating a position and then changing it when the facts warrant.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Those aren't contrails. Despite what the caption at the bottom says. Condensation from engine exhaust NEVER does that. EVER.
I know, but it seems like one sometimes.
So, taking your, unproved, assertion every jet aircraft should produce a contrail at all times and altitudes. Yet we can observe they do not. Next.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I know, but it seems like one sometimes. LOL! You got me on that one. Sigh. For all the trials I would not give up my intellect and observational faculties given to me to be just another mind numbed member of the herd. To think freely is to be free. It is just annoying when you bounce off a block of wood. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
A couple of disinfo sites they're getting their 'proof' pictures from. contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/ goodsky.homestead.com/files/gallery.html Psyop.
I guess the simple solution would be to stop bouncing.
Straight outta Orwell's ****in' '1984'.
I never said that; you asserted the assumption. The water vapor emissions are based on flight plans for craft weight and balance and are normally expelled over rural areas depending on the many factors that the pilot considers along with ground control.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/ goodsky.homestead.com/files/gallery.html Psyop. I've looked at the first one before and it is definitely a "de-bunker" site. The PsyOp people have gotten smarter - they now set up their own phony "authority" sites to provide something to link to. Some of them are pretty slickly done and they have learned to hide the "whois" data as several got caught early on operating off of CIA Servers or being owned and hosted by a known "front". The disinfo war has gotten more and more interesting and more and more one has to be able to sort through reams of bullshit and correctly categorize. People without training in formal reasoning are, unless unusually perceptive and aware, facing a maze.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Straight outta Orwell's ****in' '1984'. Absolutely - we have our very own representatives of the "Department of Truth" here to entertain us. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What is a blessing is that there are many people such as yourself that I can talk to about this. Even if I have to go on the Internet to find them. Where I live there are people that are aware of them too, but most are apathetic anyway. I myself am apathetic about it most of the time. There doesn't seem to be much one can do about it other than try and tell people. Here are a couple of good comments from the first site I linked: There are several problems with your statement that what we are seeing today are just “persistent” contrails and nothing more. “Persistent” contrails require very specific upper atmospheric conditions. Today, anyone can photograph and then compare aircraft contrail formation with “Upper Air Sounding” (weather balloon) data from such sites as the University of Wyoming… http://weather.uwyo.edu/upperair/sounding.html We are seeing GIANT contrails that go for hundreds of kilometers and cover the sky in an opaque white mass with as few as 20-30 aircraft passes. This is occurring at historically LOW Relative Humidity levels in the upper atmosphere. Also, many of these contrails are showing up on radar as being HIGHLY reflective and clearly based on some sort of ‘metallic’ substance. Here, a German news production reports on the German Military stating they are doing radar experiments covering vast swathes of Germany with huge “contrails” made up of ???? German weather scientists state that the military is altering the weather… Here is a video I have done regarding a massive bird die off and amazing “Super Storm” that hit my town at the same time… Here is a mainstream news report from my country where the government admits it has given money to experiment with “Ionizing” the atmosphere to produce rain… If people take the time to understand the science and the main points of this subject they will see that there is more to this than meets the eye. “They” have been “experimenting” on us for years which has been exposed and admitted too many times. Whats the big deal? Why are people finding this so hard to understand? Also, those military photo’s you posted. These are very deceiving as the photographs are taken alongside the aircraft at high altitude. If you were looking at these from ground level the trails would be very short just like you expect a “normal” contrail to be. Also, imagine Germany in the summer of 1943 when the Allied bombing campaign first got going. You saw HUNDREDS (up to 300-800) American B-17’s ALL in a long line, perhaps 100-200 miles long slowly trundling over Europe and Germany to deliver their deadly cargo. This took place in daylight and you would expect that at some time we would have had the PERFECT upper atmospheric conditions (around 18000ft-20,000ft) for some TRULY spectacular “persistent” aircraft contrails. How many pictures are there of this phenomenon that should of occurred at least once and been photographed? Answer…ZERO. ALL those aircraft. ALL those missions and we do not have ONE decent photo of what the mainstream considers a perfectly “normal” event? Over Esperance and all over the world ENTIRE SKY’s are being FILLED till they are an opaque white that lasts ALL DAY. This is done with as FEW as 20-30 aircraft passes over head. Why was this not seen in WW2 if it is such a “normal” event?
"But Oceania's always been at war with Eurasia."
Good post. Yes they have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect. Fluoridation is another - which the evidence is accumulating that it does nothing for tooth decay, and in fact causes Dental Fluorodosis from excessive exposure, however, it is great for pacifying a large population as the Nazis discovered. Experiments such as the Tuskegee Experiment where men infected with syphilis were let die so that that "Doctors" could observe the progress of the disease over time. And as well there are documented cases of experimenting on Military Personnel - such as marching them out to an atomic bomb blast site to see what would happen. But the Turtles of the world want to bury their heads because if they noticed something wrong and would feel responsible, and too many people will do everything they can to avoid responsibility. Dumb apathy and denial are much easier than taking responsibility for making the world a better place.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
"But Oceania's always been at war with Eurasia." And "ignorance is strength".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
AHHA! Earlier you said you maintained no speculation about this "issue." Now Americans are being experimented upon based upon some .... freak in a back room called "they." Data insufficient. We can observe on a qualitative basis that there is an observed phenomena, distinct from normal contrails, but there is insufficient data on the actual chemical composition. Chemicals such as Barium, Aluminum, and Titanium have been reported from private analysis. The composition could offer a suggestion as to the function but there seem to be conflicting analyses which suggests that: 1. The analyses were contaminated. OR 2. There is more than one program or function of the one program. Various speculations have been offered as to why but there is not a clear enough data set to weigh any one over another. The suggestions/speculations have included: 1. Weather Modification. 2. Increasing the power of HAARP by creating greater electromagnetic conduction in the atmosphere. and 3. Mitigation of Global Warming. One thing that sticks in my memory was that about 3, maybe 4, years ago a Congresscritter got motivated to include in a bill the requirement that the programs spraying disclose what they were spraying. Oddly the bill was killed and the Congresscritter, I forget which one, clammed up like nobody's business. That was one of those interesting little blips that make you look up and have a "hmmmmmmmmmm" moment. One of the things I have noticed, after being tipped off by someone else's comment, is that the heaviest spraying often occurs on the leading edge of a weather front. Why that would be I don't know, but it is a datum. However, that something is going on I can observe and note. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator Original_Intent posted on 2010-03-14 18:37:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
Gee, I am so stricken. I made a statement supported by fact. Golly, I am hoist by my own petard. Poor Buckie - trying to explain how the two remain consistent is probably beyond your willingness to reason. Sigh. However, in brief, if one assumes, as I do, that Chemtrails are the result of some sort of program, simply putting that shit in the air is by definition an experiment upon everyone within its range intentional or not, primary purpose for the the spraying or not. However, such reasoning would appear to be beyond your ken.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OI, you old softy, you. You took the bait. Tsk, tsk, tsk. ;-)
LOL! Poor buckie - he has a full deck - 52 Jokers.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I have drawn no final conclusions other than that you are pathologically dishonest - as witnessed by your attempt to put words in my mouth. I have said that I do believe Chemtrails to be a phenomena unique from contrails, and the body of empirical evidence, no matter how hard you try to wiggle, supports that. At no point have I offered even a speculation as to what their purpose might be. Since I am not privy to the inside workings of the program I have no firm conclusion as to their purpose. I could speculate, but will not. Speculation I reserve for sharing with minds that are open, honest, and inquisitive. That leaves you out. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator Original_Intent posted on 2010-03-14 18:00:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977
I suppose if it wasn't for the jokers this would just be an echo chamber.
True - but the Joker is getting desperate. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I changed my byline because of you, OI. You are too phunney.
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
I can see that.
Once again, this is a great thread. One of the best I have ever seen.
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
Thanks for your patronage, buck.
Not one decent photo? How many do you want? There is nothing deceiving about them. Someone posted about "chemtrails" being especially heavy near a storm front. There is nothing sinister about this. From www.theairlinepilots.com/met/contrails.htm For the weather- matcher, a long-lasting contrail can be a useful sign, as it reveals the presence of significant high-level moisture. This, in turn, may indicate the approach of a frontal system.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Contrails dissipate quickly 'Contrails' No 'contrails' No 'contrails' 'Contrails' My guess... photoshopped WWII 'chemtrails' from modern 'Truth is Lies' disinfo site: 'Chemtrails' 'Chemtrails' 'Chemtrails' Interesting - when the photo image is large enough to include time i.e., the trailing contrails lenght - it clearly shows that they dissipate quickly regardless of how thick they were when first formed. So, by cropping photos, or choosing them, to eliminate the time the contrails really existed for it can be used to effectively lie and assert that contrails and chemtrails are the same thing. As well is the valid point - as has been argued - that contrails are not formed 100% of the time and that the proper atmospheric conditions must exist as well. However, chemtrails are formed regardless of whether or not the conditions exist for the formation of contrails. I always find it interesting seeing people try to explain things away when they don't fit their preconceptions. It occurs in other areas as well: In archaeology evidence that does not fit the approved model is attacked and if too well documented simply ignored. In looking at UFO's the reasoning goes "UFO's don't exist therefore they don't exist". In Cryptozoology the reasoning goes - "we know what happened and that can't exist because they died out a long time ago" - until a Coelecanth turns up in a Fish Market and suddenly we have a "Golleeee" moment. Still, other anomalies that don't fit the model get ignored or ridiculed - like the multiple reports of Pterodactyls in Northern Mexico and in the area of the Superstition Mountains in the American Southwest. They can't exist so there is no point in looking because since they can't exist they don't exist - "see the textbook says so right here". And the same occurs with Chemtrails - "the govenment says they don't exist therefore (although it is the government doing it) they don't exist". It just seems that many people would rather hang on to "what they believe" rather than "what the data indicates".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Photoshopped? Perhaps you can provide proof of that? Your "guessing" means less than nothing. What is the truth is lies disinfo site? How is it possible that there aren't contrails on some of your pics, and other show them? Were they airbrushed out? Or airbrushed in? Or did the atmosphere at that altitude and time have an effect on them? The two that you labeled as chemtrails shows B17s as well as higher altitude fighters. Did they spray back then too? Did they put spray tanks on P51s as well? Really, you're grasping at straws here, IMO. Please answer these questions. Otherwise you are only looking for an argument for arguments sake.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or You are grasping at straws. At this point there are literally thousands to hundreds of thousands of Chemtrail photos on the web at different sites. While one could claim that some were photoshopped there is no motivation, or reason, to do that in thousands to hundreds of thousands of images. Methinks thou doth protest too much.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It just seems that many people would rather hang on to "what they believe" rather than "what the data indicates". What's disturbing is that it'd be understandable if we were talking about the standard brain damaged sheeple, but here we have otherwise intelligent and rational people who dismiss out of hand any notion that such a thing might be true, based upon some misguided notion that the government would tell us if they were poisoning us from the skies.. Hell, they don't even believe their own "lying eyes" apparently, or totally forget what the skies USED to look like.
Pretty strange claim from someone at war with the fact all humanity comes in many shades of skin color. Perhaps before you throw stones, you should come to grips with how irrational hatred over rules reality in your brain.
He was referencing images that YOU posted which portrayed vapor trails that are far different than normal contrails. You posted them as "proof" that this phenomenon existed even back in WWII. I'd like to see an original source of those images, ie. military photo gallery, and not one whose job it is to debunk chemtrails.
Bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. OK, let's go thru them, shall we? Let's do it out in the open for all interested parties to see. If you use firefox, you can right click on the image and select "properties" to show the source. But since I dont know what browser you use, I will do it for you myself. I found them on google images, not some website. Here are the links used in post #381 Top: http://www.91stbombgroup.com/images/contrails.jpg Middle: http://www.parlier.com/web_resources/ch0003a.jpg Bottom: http://www.volny.cz/petrvitek85/B-17%20gallery3/B-17G_contrails.jpg Here it is for #352: http://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/1454956689_44a09f2d27_o.jpg So, as you can see, only one comes from a site that you may think is there to debunk chemtrails. Now, do you have something against that one single site? If so, what is it? And about the other pics, what the fuck are you babbling about?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or More bullshit. I refer to post 382 where he said, and I quote, " My guess... photoshopped WWII 'chemtrails' from modern 'Truth is Lies' disinfo site: " I asked for proof of that photoshopping, in post 384, because I don't give a tinkers damn about anyones "guesses". I can guess about things all day long, but it doesn't mean a thing.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Ok, so the images might be authentic, but as someone else pointed out they are only showing a narrow angle view of the sky, and don't show a wide angle view of those trails to indicate how long they lasted. Wider angle images from WWII that I've seen do show the trails dissipating as normal. Regardless, I've seen enough evidence to indicate there IS chemtrail activity taking place with my own eyes. That there is such a campaign of denial taking place indicates whatever it is that they ARE doing is something they would rather not tell us about.
Even more amusing, and inconsistent, some of these same people regularly castigate government for other wrongs. Trying to analyze it logically is pointless, because the viewpoint is not founded on logic - it is founded upon fixed and unchanging ideas which are taken as absolutes regardless of contradictory evidence - of which many are simply false. And when someone draws a conclusion on false data that conclusion will also be false - and often appear very screwy to others (with the very rare exception where faulty reasoning arrived by sheer coincidence at the correct answer). That goes back to one of my favorite, and frequently used, quotes as it is so braodly applicable: So, if someone knows the world is flat then everything they see will confirm that. It looks flat doesn't it? In his book "The Day the Universe Changed" Burke quoted the philospher Wittgenstein who was confronted by the following: A person: "How silly of our ancestors to think the sun revolved around the earth when it is clear that it does not?" Wittgenstein: Thoughtfully - "But I wonder what it would have looked if it did?" The point of course is that it would have looked the same, however our knowledge of how the universe operates changed and thus so did what we saw. So, to the person who does not recall the difference, or is too young, then Chemtrails are part of the normal airscape. Thus, they see nothing unusual "because that's the way it has always been". "Oceanna has always been at war with Eurasia."
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh BTW, contrailscience.com appears to be a chemtrail debunking site which exists for that sole purpose.
If you were a photographer back then, would you take pics of the planes themselves, or a big white line that everybody could see? There may be pics out there like that. Who knows. There are a lot of WW2 pics out there, and movies too. Regardless, I've seen enough evidence to indicate there IS chemtrail activity taking place with my own eyes. That there is such a campaign of denial taking place indicates whatever it is that they ARE doing is something they would rather not tell us about. Maybe they are, I don't know. But I have not seen the evidence yet. Just people with an agenda that totally ignore evidence that does not fit in with what they want to see. They even make "guesses" of photoshopping. Are guesses now considered to be evidence?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or OK, what do they say there that you disagree with?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or The thing is, I only first noticed VERY unusual "contrails" back in the mid 90's, so it wasn't that I was convinced by the Internet evidence, I already knew something was going on, and with the info (and disinfo) being spread across the net in relation to those observations, I know beyond any reasonable doubt that whatever it is they ARE doing is probably not good, otherwise they'd tell us exactly what they were doing and why.
It's obvious that someone devoted a LOT of time and effort in order to debunk chemtrails as much as possible. Now WHY would someone do that, and where do they get their funding? People who feel that they are alerting people to danger do what they do for altruistic reasons, where those who try to debunk those dangers do so for other reasons.
It costs about $100 per year to put up a website. Once that is paid, it just takes time and effort. You don't need funding. Now, do you have any specific disagreements about the info presented there? People who feel that they are alerting people to danger do what they do for altruistic reasons, where those who try to debunk those dangers do so for other reasons. It all depends on whether the danger is real, or a hoax that took on a life of its own because some of us are all too willing to believe our .gov is capable of doing this. Just because they are dirtbags of the lowest order doesn't mean they are guilty of everything attributed to them. Just the things we all agree on are bad enough without going off on these tangents. There is nothing "altruistic" about lying, intentional or not.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I refer to post 382 where he said, and I quote, " My guess... photoshopped WWII 'chemtrails' from modern 'Truth is Lies' disinfo site: " I asked for proof of that photoshopping, in post 384, because I don't give a tinkers damn about anyones "guesses". I can guess about things all day long, but it doesn't mean a thing. I'm allowed to guess and admit when I am. Just as you are and do as well. I don't know exactly what the site is or how the pictures came to be on the site, so I honestly say that I'm guessing. I do know they aren't contrails. Simply because contrails dissipate and disappear. Regardless of what anyone says. I do know that the pictures you presented as proof of contrails in WWII are of chemtrails. Why they are there I can only guess. Maybe it was an airshow. I don't really care why.
I don't really care why. Very telling. Please remember, this is *YOUR* thread.
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
And there we have it. Damn.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Actually - that the contrails were unusually vivid may be one of the reasons the photo survived - as a novelty because it is the exception rather than the rule. Taken up close, from another plane in the squadron, they would look denser than from the ground - but it still does not show the tails of contrails which is what makes is suspect i.e., that if one could see a larger frame one would see the contrails fading as per normal - within 20 to 30 minutes.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The devil is in the details. Specific information is required. I first noticed the emerging police state and the loss of freedoms around that time. Did the police state exist before that? Yes. Just because you first notice something does not mean that is when it started. It just means that is when it caught your attention. Noticing things is not specific information.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or And there we have what?
I decided to change my tagline providing everyone the actual post of your perspective.
I should be sporting your famous quote right now.
As you wish. I do not see any reason to repudiate it or be bothered by your use of it. I can back up what I say but just didn't bother for this thread. Repeated experimentation has been done on military and civilian populations. It is just that the MSM will not cover it - except for the very rare acknowledgment buried in some obscure section of a newspaper OR the occasional disinfo piece to provide "plausible deniability" as happened when it got out that the U.S. Military used Nerve Gas in Southeast Asia.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Thank you for your support, Buck.
you "didnt bother" to back up what you say because you cant. you cant post proof of "chemtrail" support infrastucture or personnel. you cant post proof of "chemtrails" existing in places that are not explained by well-understood chemical and physical processes. you cant post proof of "chemtrail" chemical composition. you cant post proof of supposed motive for the "chemtrail" operation. . it's not that you "dont bother"... it's simply that you cant.
Thank you for sharing. Do we feel better now? Please post the details and specifics of ANY ongoing Classified (Top Secret or Above) Project. I'll be waiting.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
if this "chemtrail" project is so secret, how come you know about it?
You are welcome. I am committed to make this the largest thread on 4um, ever.
I would enjoy reading your thoughts ..... assuming you aren't bothered. Just ping me when you have crossed the t's and dotted the i's ... thanks in advance.
Fantastic.
Views: 58445 Comments: 19 With just a few remarcks, I challenge the REAL number of independent and distinct views. I wager, that was SKYDRIFTER sitting at home manually "clicking" on the thread for several days in a row.
Are you guessing?
Ahem... We're gonna need some help here...
I am suggesting that the number of replys are too small to warrant the number of views. Most threads (of any serious discussion) have an average view factor to posts of 4:1. This is true EVERYWHERE on the Internet.
Even Mudbot's thread: contains a similar ratio as I was earlier suggesting. And he made the preponderance of posts with very few exceptions.
if this "chemtrail" project is so secret, how come you know about it? Gosh that's a real toughie Ninpo old buddy. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Please post the details and specifics of ANY ongoing Classified (Top Secret or Above) Project. if you are saying you know the details of a top secret project, that must mean you are part of the project.
Still addicted to bad logic and dishonestly trying to attribute to someone something they didn't say eh Ninpo old buddy? Did I say I knew the details of any such? NO.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
where's the evidence?
Your admission that you only guess. You made the asinine assertion that they were spraying "chemtrails" in WW2 Here is your quote: I do know that the pictures you presented as proof of contrails in WWII are of chemtrails. Why they are there I can only guess. Maybe it was an airshow. You "know" that how??? I guess the alien grays are behind it. Or, that the reptilian shapeshifters are ultimately to blame, I guess, since it is well known (I guess) that the grays are the reptilians servants and have no will of their own, I guess. I guess. Don't guess. It only makes you look stupid. Personally I dont think you are, if I did think you were stupid I'd say so, but you do have a blind spot here. Now, I answered your questions. Let's see if you can answer mine. Here they are again: Photoshopped? Perhaps you can provide proof of that? Your "guessing" means less than nothing. What is the truth is lies disinfo site? How is it possible that there aren't contrails on some of your pics, and other show them? Were they airbrushed out? Or airbrushed in? Or did the atmosphere at that altitude and time have an effect on them? The two that you labeled as chemtrails shows B17s as well as higher altitude fighters. Did they spray back then too? Did they put spray tanks on P51s as well?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or where's the evidence?
I'm guessing (because I don't know) the pictures were either photoshopped or they're chemtrails. Either way they're not contrails.
Best sarcasm of the thread award!
It's an amazing thing to see, isn't it? They say that there is proof, but are ... reluctant... to show the evidence. I do hope you aren't holding your breath waiting for this "evidence". They only offer "guesses".
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or ground resonance = Ninpo? Isn't Ninpo a vagitarian?
amazing, yes. but also kinda scary.
Either way they're not contrails. Prove it. You're trying my patience. I'm sure others have me on bozo, and before all is said and done, you will add me to your bozo list. Quit playing your silly fucking games, or I will get vicious. That is a promise.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or LOL!! Chill dude.
i dont know which to be most scared of... ...the possibility that the ability to think has deteriorated so badly, or the possibility that the disinfo war has infested every forum on the internet. it would be nice to be able to write it off as mere stupidity, but it seems to be way worse than that.
Personally, I think he maybe is just looking for an amusing argument. NO one can possibly be so stupid as to believe they were putting chemtrail gear on WW2 fighters, much less on bombers. Anyone stupid enough to believe that is not smart enough to use a computer. Dumbasses don't know how heavy liquids are, and they needed all the fuel, bombs and ammo that they could carry. Disinfo is damn near everywhere. Those that don't write it, promote it. They distrust the MSM but trust the alternative media. Both can be full of shit.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or You haven't seen my vicious side yet ;) You've seen only my mildly irritated side.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I keep having to ignore that damn thread.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or LMAO!! What are you gonna do, call me names? Insult me? Fire away.
Note the view/post ratio; which is similar to 4:1. More than that, note the number of energetic posters placing opinions and honest thoughts and considerations. There is no question this is one of the finest threads 4um has produced. This is why I love these forums. I enjoy spirited and well-intended debate. And whether or not this thread gets into lofty clouds of thousands of posts (and relative views) I really could care less; after all it is your thread. At least you state an opinion that is consistent to challenge while maintaining respect. And this proves you have meaningful ideas about the world around you. It doesn't get better than this on any subject under the Sun.
No, I decided that won't do any of that. It has to be worth the effort. It requires an expenditure of energy mixed with sarcasm generation, and that takes some talent and time to develop properly. Your own posts make you look stupid enough, even though you are probably playing games here. No one can be as stupid as you are trying to portray yourself and still be able to use a keyboard.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or there are some things that can be taken on faith: the sun will rise tomorrow... there are some things you need proof of: the sun will come up tomorrow, planes will fly over you and spray you with chemicals that will cause... what? ...nobody seems to know what "chemtrails" are for... which kinda makes the motive uncertain... and if you're gonna investigate a crime ---for instance, "chemtrail" spraying--- the primary thing the investigator looks for is "motive"... but nobody can say what that motive might be when it comes to "chemtrails". the authorities these people appeal to are nutbag sites that routinely manipulate pictures to "prove" their "points"... and for all the power inherent in the massive numbers of people who believe in "chemtrails", those people are apparently unable to muster the will to go for real proof... ..."real proof", which would be, as you originally suggested, using established rules of evidence to take direct samples of "chemtrails", analyze them, and publish the results. all these people claim to be dead sure they can tell the difference between contrails and "chemtrails", so it's not gonna be a problem to identify a "chemtrail", jump in the plane, and take samples. so the solution to the controversy is right there, staring everyone in the face, but nobody has the gumption to do anything about it... ...or else they know they're full of horse manure, and are afraid a real investigation will expose them as hoaxsters and/or idiots and/or psywar agents.
Do they? I don't know that they manipulate the pics, but they certainly cherry pick them. Then, they insert their own labels and tells us what they are. It would be interesting to see if they do manipulate them. I know nothing about how to check them, though. I think you're right. They don't want the hoax to die. They have a vested interest in keeping it alive. Knowing from personal experience, it sucks to admit I was on the wrong track for years. It is a lot of wasted time. People here would think I was a new-age/kook/nutcase if I went over all of the stupid crap I checked out seriously.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Your spirited debate is required here. I am learning more than I have ever considered on the many and varied threads you have posted upon. Stay here as you find opportunity until the thread is no longer unique and stimulating. You add a breath of fresh aire ...
yeah, they do. the original picture of the boeing test flights, the one with the tanks, has a "hazmat" warning photoshopped into it. the picture of that goofy sponge-looking thing in the "exhaust" is a drogue for aerial refueling, and it's mounted on a pod that holds the cable and hose... the pod is not an engine at all.
Hmm. THanks. But I'm not referring to this thread, but the 'more mud' thread.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or the pod is not an engine at all. i was mistaken in implying that the "dark government" site claimed, in their article "Chemtrail Aircraft Caught on the Ground", that the "brush- like object" was mounted in an engine. they said it was mounted in a "spraying pod". they did, however, manipulate the picture.
Excellent link! I especially like this: Now having dealt with hazmat in the trucking industry, this has to be one of the silliest things I have seen today. And I've seen some silly things today, let me tell you! It's the words "HAZMAT INSIDE". Either someone has a great sense of humor (since it's a restroom and maybe they saw the pilot eat some burritos) or it was shopped. Saying something is "hazmat" doesn't tell anyone anything about what the hazmat is, and believe me, you need to know exactly what it is. Putting that sign there is not worth the effort. If it's shopped, the one that did it is depending on the ignorance of readers that has never dealt with hazmat before. I say it was shopped, just because putting this there is so stupid. Too, there is no hazmat inside. It's a fucking sprayer for Thor's sake! The hazmat label goes on the container. This tells me that the "sprayer" graphic is shopped too. It's so amateurish. The rest of the pics speak for themselves and the author did a great job in documenting it. Chances are though, the True Believers will not reply so favorably. They'll call it gubbermint disinfo and ignore everything.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Honesty, self-respect and perseverance will get you everywhere in this world.
The last comment on the link you posted has this original, showing that the pic I posted was shopped. Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or here's the original photo, originally from airliners.net, judging from the tag, via contrail science (you have to scroll down a little, click on the url at "The original photo can be found here". no hazmat warning or sprayer number
you beat me to the punch.
Well, now the True Believers have 2 chances to see it. LOL! 2 is twice as hard to ignore as 1 is. :) But let me guess... They will say THAT pic was shopped...
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Lets say ... that some ... Shadow Government .. had the urge to spray Americans with some sort of scientific formulae to ensure some sort of capability over and beyond the common citizenry. Let's just lay that idea flat on the ground for my dialog. Why? What is there to be gained by fellow Americans spraying their fellow man with "chemicals" beyond some conspiracy theory? If the CIA wants to spray me with LSD... this is too cool, I can handle it.
at least william appleton, the photographer, seems to exist... i spose someone could get in touch with him... he might have the original negative or file or whatever... Results 1 - 21 of about 122 for "william appleton" photos aircraft
speaking for myself... i'm already loony enough.
Yet, as a matter of fact and through this thread, Americans have a far longer longevity than ever before in history of any western nation under the Sun. You know ... the next time I see a so-called chemtrail appears in the sky, I am going to urge EVERYONE around me to breath in ..... America is the longest lasting nation on this planet.
i dont think that's right
Really? What do you think with some kind of explicit link proving your personal consideration?
dont know how close to the truth this is... then there's always wikiped ia
I love the attempt.
well, i'm not gonna argue about it, but i will post one more reference, from the CIA, which puts america pretty far down the list, 49th, to be exact.
None of this has any bearing on the simple fact that contrails dissipate and disappear quickly, Sorry. I was asked to show pictures of chemtrails equipment so I searched for 'chemtrail equipment' Whether it is actual chemtrail equipment or not is irrelevant to the truth of the matter which sorry, but they do... and sometimes they spread out enough to form an overcast
I read through the comments at the bottom of this 'debunking' site. Reeks like carefully crafted Psyops. Reminds me of LP.
exactly...and you explain why there are often 2-3 planes crisscrossing these (chem)trails across the sky at low altitude for hours at a time? what are they doing?..and, btw, they never dissipate and every time what began as a perfectly cloudless blue sky winds up a hazy gray.
so metimes and sometimes they spread out enough to form an overcast Not in the real world.
Reeks like carefully crafted Psyops. you've been caught, redhanded, posting lies. so the only thing left for you to do is go on the offensive, seeing as how you've been unable to post any evidence. what does that reek of?
It's refreshing and reassuring to see we're on the same page here, Christine. :-) A guy'd go nuts if there wasn't anyone else to validate this obvious observation with. I LOVE Freedom4um!!
if you cant prove the altitude of the airplane, and prove the temperature and humidity of the air mass at that altitude, you have no idea whether or not contrails are possible. a photo or an "observation" is not proof of altitude, temperature or humidity.
Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth The requested URL /cgi-bin/Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth was not found on this server. Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g mod_perl/2.0.3 Perl/v5.8.8 Server at freedom4um.com Port 80 Got Link?
You're really asking for it, Bucko!! :-)
here's the link Country Comparison :: Life expectancy at birth sorry for the bad url.
I remember everything my good friend. Now, also remember that these threads are a gift of life to all of us. Great stuff!
No problem at all. Ever see the countries basic mortality rates above America? Most of those socialists come to the US for medical care.
so how many people are traveling for medical care? Medical tourism wikipedia doesnt seem like those numbers are big enough to skew the life expectancy of whole countries.
I think you need to review the US Congress in the attem0pt to give away free benefits for the 30,000,000 illegal aliens.
Oh cool...it's nice bucky...WooHOOO!! I usedta like nice bucky. Sure, I'll help out when I can. Good to see y'all in good spirits...MUD BTW...anybody seen JimmyH or Mr. Chan lately? They owe me fer a bet...
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Hey Bucky (er, Bill)...yeah, you can just call me "Steve"...I was wondering... Would you agree with a Constitutional Amendment that made Congressional AND EXECUTIVE BRANCH Federal Golden Parachutes ILLEGAL--and, yes, TREASONOUS!! My point, of course...DESTROY the PENSIONS and the RATS/RINOS will starve...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Heh heh heh...yeah, nice bucky usedta be a HOOt...regards, dude.
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, BTW...have you ever had a nice "Muddy Barry"?! Probably not, since MUD is the ONLY person HOO knows how to make them ZACKLEY RIGHT!! Fer the record, I'm enjoying said toddy as we speak, and she is MUCH BETTER than advertised, my friend. Me and my buds are hittin' the Outer Banks next weekend...if'n ya wanna, I'll give ya the Milepost and you can come and check out "Mudboy Slim and the Syntaurs" LIVE and in action...LOL!! Bill, I'm a gonna git ya front-row tickets fer MUD's inevitable performance upon the steps of the Lincoln Monument. It wouldn't be as fun if'n you weren't my buddy again by then...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Sounds way gay.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. It is what it is, JimmieDee...we're actually a quite self-actualized group of accomplished individuals, my friend...MUD Plus, some of us really, REALLY like tequila.
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Do a lot of that "self-actualizing," do you? Do y'all do it at the same time in a group or just individually?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Then again, no TEQUILA tonite...this evening, it's all about gittin' the "Muddy Barry!!" recipe ZACKLEY RIGHT!! BTW...I sent a private message to our mutual friend, Rotara, and thanked HIM again fer recommending Edward Griffin's "The Creature from Jekyll Island" I'm still sloggin' my way thru it--yeah, my attention span SUX, I know--but it's defintiely an eye-opener...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, A FAGGOT joke from you, JimmieDee?! I'm disappointed...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I wasn't the one who brought up that "self-actualizing" mess. Just thought it was funny.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Dagnabbit...nuthin' hotter than a chick in a uniform, willin' to defend her country...yowzah!! Palin fer POTUS 2020...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Just sayin'. JimmieDee...yer little lib'ral buddies like to toss the homo jokes out liberally...dude, sorry, can't help ya, MUD AIN'T GAY...LOL!! Doth I protesteth too loudly?! Whatever, JimmieDee...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, "Maslow's "Theory of Self-Actualization!!" Sincerely, I DO apologize...I often fergit how Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, "Maslow's "Theory of Self-Actualization!!" Not everything is about masturbation, JimmieDee...MUD
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, Physiological needs include: Breathing "The urge to have sex is so powerful that it can drain psychic energy away from other necessary goals. Therefore every culture has to invest great efforts in rechanneling and restraining it, and many complex social institutions exist only in order to regulate this urge. The saying that "love makes the world go round" is a polite reference to the fact that most of our deeds are impelled, either directly or indirectly, by sexual needs." Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, LOL! Everyone who makes a joke you don't like or disagrees with you about whatever politician you happen to worship at any given moment is a RAT. At least that is how you come off. Keep on talking that stupid $#it and digging that hole. Most folks have sense enough to stop digging when they find the hole they are in is getting over their head but you keep on going.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. exactly No, not exactly. Did you see this link from post 444 depletedcranium.com/are-these-chemtrail-planes-no/ It is a great page. Then there's posts 447, 449/450 This is a hoax that took on a life of its own.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or So you had them analyzed and they were found to be "mineral compounds"? GOOD WORK! BRAVO! Someone give him a cookie! Tell me, what kind of mineral compounds were they? What lab were they tested at? How did you get those samples?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or MUD's been diggin' fer years...no desire whatsoever to stop now...LOL!!
Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan and Back to the States, I'm talking about the amount of research and effort needed to explain away the phenomona, similar to how NIST explained the collapse of the WTC towers as being due to heat and pancaking.
PS: Web designers make anywhere from $25 to $80 or so per hour. I doubt it took just several hours to put that altogether, and that's not even considering the bandwidth and hosting expense.
You don't need a web designer to put up a website. There is absolutely nothing special about depletedcranium.com/ other than he did a great job at debunking chemtrails and he did it on one page. The page itself is very simple. If you can use a browser, you can design a website. It could easily be done in several hours. Or you can be a dumbass and pay someone to set it up for you. The people that make that kind of money are doing it for businesses, not personal websites. You can buy templates if you're really desperate. Here it is again in case you missed it. depletedcranium.com/are-these-chemtrail-planes-no/ . Now about the info presented there: what sayest thou? Have you ever put up a website? It sounds like you are making assumptions about a topic that you don't know anything about. You get a tremendous amount of bandwidth per account. It comes with your hosting account. It's not a separate thing that you have to pay for. If you run out of bandwidth, then you are on par with Rense and congratulations are in order, or bots are sucking it up.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Really, how much research would it take someone with some smarts, to put up that page? It took effort, but not some kind of superhuman effort. And, nothing is "explained away". It's all laid out, nice and neat. Now, what exactly did he "explain away" again??? And dont compare this to the WTC towers and the NIST. It takes much more effort to lie than it does to just tell the truth.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or So groundresonance are you saying that you believe there is no cloud seeding going on? Do you not believe that they are spraying chemicals in the air?
That is exactly what gruntresonace is trying to maintain. That you can't believe your eyes, that the government never has secret programs, that they have never engaged in human experimentation, and that the Easter Bunny is going to hop right in and give him a bunch of candy eggs. Everything is normal, don't believe your lying eyes, go back to sleep, all is well. The government luvvvvvvvs you and Big Brother is looking after your best interests. Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
To deny that cloud seeding takes place is just plain silliness. The real questions are what are they using? How much of this substance comes to the ground surface and what is the impact of such chemicals upon the surface and humans? http://www.idahostatesman.com/20...loud-seeding-efforts.html http://proliberty.com/observer//20071108.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/sci...12-02-cloud-seeding_x.htm Novelist Kurt Vonnegut's brother, Bernard, was one of its pioneers in the 1940s. So was Henderson, who used to sit in a surplus P-38 warplane and dump granules of dry ice out the hatch to coax more snow from clouds over California's Sierra Nevada range. Hydroelectric utilities, ski resorts and irrigation districts in California, Nevada, Colorado and other states have been seeding clouds for decades. Most use furnace-size propane burners on the ground. Some also fly aircraft into clouds and drop chemicals from above. They track storm fronts like TV meteorologists. Using radars, satellite views and mountaintop weather stations, they gauge when temperature, wind and other conditions are best.
No one denies cloud seeding. But, when you understand the gist of the thread from top to bottom this action is not at issue.
And dont compare this to the WTC towers and the NIST. It takes much more effort to lie than it does to just tell the truth. Someone went to great effort to put up the disinfo in the first place, then put up a site to discredit it, AFTER the disinfo had been out in the wild for some time. In other words, the flow is as follows; Funny thing is, the registration info on contrailscience.com appears to be private, and nobody is listed as a technical contact or anything. Hmmm.
Images of aircraft leaving chemtrails obviously, along with images of equipment claimed to produce those chemtrails. You've been to the site, you don't need to play dumb with me here.
Sure it is - it may have a different purpose but the action is little different - instead of seeding clouds to generate precipitation they seeding something into the atmosphere for an unknown purpose. You may try to deny it as much as you wish but the evidence is there, and some of us are old enough to remember when it was not so. Thus we can compare the skies of our youth with the skies of today and KNOW there is a difference. There IS some sort of program ongoing. What that program is we may not know for sure, but we can observe its traces. Chemtrails are a new and very real phenomena that demands an honest explanation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I guess groundresonance never read that they use this all the time in Russia to avoid rain during certain parades and other events. Of course, in this article they also point to the fact that the U.S. also does this. As I said it is beyond silliness to attempt to claim that there is no such thing going on.
1. Problematic activity is obviously seen by many Exactly - and it has all the earmarks, given the pattern, of a professional job done by experienced PsyOps people. Anyone so naive as to not know that such operations DO take place is simply ignorant of the real world.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh, I agree and one can see the evidence if one but has eyes to see and takes them off of their shoes for a while.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You mean to say a publickly acceptable purpose. Since life expectancy is increasing in the US, could the EBIL doers be spraying us with the majiic elixir that Ponce de León was searching for?
Dont play dumb with me either. That page explains the lies behind this chemtrail nonsense by giving specific information on specific gear. It even got into photoshopping that we also documented on this thread. I am growing weary of this thread. I keep wanting to talk evidence, as do a few others here, and we keep coming back to this crap.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or knowledge.allianz.com/en/...tions_geoengineering.html Yes, I do have issues with it. For one I am allergic to Barium. I know the scientist were also discussing spraying Sulfa in the air to combat global warming this is another thing I am allergic to. The information of what they are spraying in the air should be readily available to the public along with the test of the air and ground and any impact it may have on us. Our government has not been above board on many issues. We should have cameras on them at all times when they meet. We should know what they are doing and they should be held accountable for their actions.
Did I say anything resembling that? NO. So, misrepresentation of my position is dishonest argumentation. It is known under a variety of names but ultimately is a variation on the Strawman Argument. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
There is the webhost, right? You can pay extra to keep your private info private. There is nothing sinister about it. Which you would know, if you ever put up a website. # Setup a site such as contrailscience.com to debunk the info that had been planted, making ANYONE who speaks up about the problematic activity to appear foolish Appear foolish? It is foolish. How twisted does this have to get? We have shown you people proof that this is bogus. Actual proof. You and the others have shown nothing. Fuck this. I'm done with this thread until someone says something serious. There is no serious discussion here.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Since the action or actions are intended (that is to say, purposeful) you MUST restate your post. I attempted to suggest that because you don't know the purpose hardly means that it is "unknown."
Are you aware that they were discussing spraying sulfur into the air. Whether they have begun this or not I do not know. The problem is they are not open about what they are spraying into the air or of the impact it has on humans. Because of their unwillingness to be open and above board regarding spraying we should be concerned. I remember when they were spraying for med-flies in So. Calif. and they said it was perfectly safe for humans. But you should bring your pets inside and cover your vehicles as it may damage or eat the paint off of your vehicles. I told people think about the statement rationally and ask yourself if it is going to eat the paint off of your car it will more or less probably impact a humans health. Sometimes people just don't think.
This thread is awesome. Stay in touch .... as it is showing some very clear considerations.
So do you believe that there is cloud seeding going on? If so, what are the chemicals being sprayed in the air and how much? What is the impact on the ground and were can we get the copies of the studies? What exactly are you attempting to dispute? I mean even in USA Today they have articles regarding seed clouding and that it is occurring.
Where? That would introduce sulfuric acid as you probably know. In the Northeast of the USA, this phenomena is already known and understood based upon factory gaseous release(s).... it typically causes rust and corrosion and is popularly known as acid rain.
What exactly are you guys disputing? You have said you are not disputing that there is seeding the clouds going on. From what I have read on this thread there is a concern regarding the chemicals that are being put into the air by planes. People have come on here and more or less attempted to say there are no such thing as chem-trails and that the planes are not spraying. Now you say no one is disputing spraying and seeding the clouds. So please tell me what the dispute is!
Because of their unwillingness to be open and above board regarding spraying we should be concerned. I remember when they were spraying for med-flies in So. Calif. and they said it was perfectly safe for humans. But you should bring your pets inside and cover your vehicles as it may damage or eat the paint off of your vehicles. I told people think about the statement rationally and ask yourself if it is going to eat the paint off of your car it will more or less probably impact a humans health. Sometimes people just don't think. I was not aware of the sulfur but was aware of the other spraying. Yeah - "it's OK and won't hurt you - bring your pets in and protect your car from having the paint eaten away". "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." And yes - informed consent means just that. As long as the purpose of the spraying is kept secret, and even denied despite visible evidence, then one must assume on a provisional basis that there is something about it which the general public would object to if it were known. Therefore it is, and becomes, a matter of considerable concern given past misdeeds on testing "substances" on people.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
We're talking 2 differnet things ehre. Seeding is differnet than chemntrails
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or The issue is chemtrails and contrails. Read the thread from top to bottom. You will have ensured that you acquired some new knowledge and opinions.
There IS some sort of program ongoing. What that program is we may not know for sure, but we can observe its traces. Chemtrails are a new and very real phenomena that demands an honest explanation. Yes, I remember contrails from my childhood. A jet passing overhead was rare back then and you noticed everything about it. And there is most certainly a difference in a normal contrail that dissipates relatively quickly and the chemtrails that hang on and on. Anyone who denies it is only fooling themselves.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Are you aware that they were discussing spraying sulfur into the air. Where? That would introduce sulfuric acid as you probably know. In the Northeast of the USA, this phenomena is already known and understood based upon factory gaseous release(s).... it typically causes rust and corrosion and is popularly known as acid rain. Here are a few links. http://knowledge.allianz.com/en/...tions_geoengineering.html Keith and colleagues want to investigate putting aerosols, such as sulfur, into the atmosphere to chemically unlock the greenhouse effect and allow more of the suns reflected heat to radiate back into space. http://www.theatlantic.com/magaz...gineering-the-earth/7552/ The aerosol plan is also cheap—so cheap that it completely overturns conventional analysis of how to mitigate climate change. Thomas C. Schelling, who won the 2005 Nobel Prize in economics, has pointed out how difficult it is to get vast international agreements—such as the Kyoto Protocol—to stick. But a geo-engineering strategy like sulfur aerosol “changes everything,” he says. Suddenly, instead of a situation where any one country can foil efforts to curb global warming, any one country can curb global warming all on its own. Pumping sulfur into the atmosphere is a lot easier than trying to orchestrate the actions of 200 countries—or, for that matter, 7 billion individuals—each of whom has strong incentives to cheat. But Paul Crutzen, a director at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany, has a very different idea: He recommends injecting massive amounts of sulfur into the upper atmosphere so less sun will penetrate it. Stanford ecologist Ken Caldeira, who has investigated similar climate-modification strategies, thinks Crutzen's clout will drive this seemingly off-the-wall project forward. Efforts to manipulate the environment fall under a category known as geoengineering, which "lived in a shadowy netherworld, just beyond what was considered politically acceptable," Caldeira said. "Crutzen's paper is important because it shines a light on geoengineering, bringing it out of that netherworld." http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/08/71613 Crutzen published his proposal in the August issue of Climatic Change. He won the 1995 Nobel prize in chemistry for his work on the ozone layer. When sulfur particles are released into the Earth's atmosphere, they reflect solar radiation back into space much as large ice sheets in the Arctic do. Crutzen envisions lofting sulfur into the stratosphere on small balloon crafts, which will use artillery guns to release their smelly payload.
Hey Rose! Nice to cybersee you as they say. You are right, it is beyond silly but that doesn't stop the true believers from telling us how the government loves us and would never do anything to harm us.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Seeding is spraying chemicals such as Barium and heavy metals into the air is is not? And I have heard the use of Chem-trails also to be understood as such chemicals that they use to seed the clouds.
Thank you! Now can you explain how spraying heavy metals in the air is not the same as chemtrails? I thought they were caused by spraying chemicals into the atmosphere. What chemicals they are using and how much is the question. And what impact they have on us. I saw a picture of my dad decontaminating a fellow navy man from radiation contamination with a whisk broom. As he said those guys did not live long.
"Dagnabbit...nuthin' hotter than a chick in a uniform, willin' to defend her country...yowzah!!" The Chillbilly probably saw the Shrub in his Nomex flight suit on the carrier deck in "Mission Accomplished" and insisted on the same garment. I don't see the point of camouflaging bimbos at an exercise being conducted Stateside (CONUS). And if the deemed her to be in a dangerous place, uniforms similar to those worn by others around her would make the most sense. If I were a well hidden sniper, one look at her in the context of how others are deferential to her and the unusual choice of uniform would put her in my cross sight.
It is not Dry ice and silver iodide aree used
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or No. And I don't think anyone else can either. Chemtrails and contrails are not the same things. To say otherwise is to deny what is very obvious.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. One Shot, One Kill.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Hey, happiness is a clean kill I always say.
To sit back and make that statement in awe of the phenomena is a testament to your own ignorance. State some facts if you have time.
According to this article there are three different types of cloud seeding. Seeding is spaying chemicals into the air. Have you seen any studies showing that even the two chemicals or heavy metals that you agree may be used for seeding are harmless for humans and the atmosphere? Where did you get your facts that this is the only chemicals we are using to seed the clouds? "Carbon Dioxide (chemical used for dry ice) is a chemical compound composed of two oxygen atoms covalently bonded to a single carbon atom. It is a gas at standard temperature and pressure and exists in Earth's atmosphere in this state. CO2 is a trace gas being only 0.038% of the atmosphere. Health Issues Carbon dioxide content in fresh air (averaged between sea-level and 10 hPa level, i.e. about 30 km altitude) varies between 0.036% (360 ppm) and 0.039% (390 ppm), depending on the location. Prolonged exposure to moderate, concentrations can cause acidosis and adverse effects on calcium phosphorus metabolism resulting in increased calcium deposits in soft tissue. Carbon dioxide is toxic to the heart and causes diminished contractile force. Toxicity and its effects increase with the concentration of CO2, here given in volume percent of CO2 in the air: www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-413453?ref=feeds%2Flatest "Static cloud seeding involves spreading a chemical like silver iodide into clouds. The silver iodide provides a crystal around which moisture can condense. The moisture is already present in the clouds, but silver iodide essentially makes rain clouds more effective at dispensing their water. Dynamic cloud seeding aims to boost vertical air currents, which encourages more water to pass through the clouds, translating into more rain. Up to 100 times more ice crystals are used in dynamic cloud seeding than in the static method. The process is considered more complex than static clouding seeding because it depends on a sequence of events working properly. Dr. William R. Cotton, a professor of atmospheric science at Colorado State University, and other researchers break down dynamic cloud seeding into 11 separate stages. An unexpected outcome in one stage could ruin the entire process, making the technique less dependable than static cloud seeding. Hygroscopic cloud seeding disperses salts through flares or explosives in the lower portions of clouds. The salts grow in size as water joins with them. In his report on cloud seeding, Cotton says that hygroscopic cloud seeding holds much promise, but requires further research." Now, let's take those chemicals listed above, and look them up. After all, what goes up in the air, eventually falls back down right? Along with the chemicals mentioned above, I have listed chemicals named from other sources in relationship to cloud seeding. I have also listed chemicals being found in rain water where cloud seeding trails have been present. Let's see what we can find out about the description of the chemicals and the health risks for humans. Let's go back to Wikipedia for that information. We will start with the chemicals listed in the two sources above. The ones toward the bottom of the list are chemicals found in rainwater where trails have been present.
Fact #1. You are a lush and I don't have to prove anything to you. You can believe the government loves you and doubt what is evident to most people who don't wear blinders but it is not my job to hold your hand or make you think. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I am tired of your sarcasm and your belief that you are so much smarter than everyone else.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. We're talking 2 differnet things ehre. Seeding is differnet than chemntrails
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Not any facts. Those statements are assumptions. You will have to try again when you have some more time. Now, back to your earlier post: Seeding is differnet than chemntrails When the planes that seed put those chemicals in the atmosphere I believe they leave Chemtrails. So I am concerned about them seeding and what is being used and how it may impact me and my health. I believe that others on this thread have the same concerns. Many of the Chemtrails we see may have been from seeding the clouds. I do not believe that seeding should be done without any public input or oversight of the citizens. I believe there should be studies done and that those studies should be available to anyone who wants to see them. I believe that there should be more transparency in what is being done. I mean do you think that they will let the public know if and when they decide to put Sulfur in the air? I don't think they will let us know. They will just do it.
Why should they state (relevant) facts. They don't have any facts to state. The facts stated by people who say chemtrails are BS, are ignored. In fact, we now are government lovers that trust .gov in everything, simply because we call a spade a spade, and can show that chemtrails are bullshit. The silly geese cant even agree what "chemtrails" are for. They are trying to assign a purpose for something that doesn't even exist! How funny is that? All that wasted effort on their part. It's a shame. But they are sooooo sure of themselves that they don't need any proof. That is why they wont post proof. They don't have any.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Well, I hope you are patient because I have quite a few things pressing for my time. All of them more important than proving what is obvious to all but the willfully blind. I may get back to you on it someday but if I were you I would not hold my breath and stand on one foot.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Chemtrails are spraying chemicals into the air. Contrails are a natural condensation that occurs from planes. They are not the same. I have pictures taken from my yard of Chemtrails in their various stages throughout a four hour period. Whether it was cloud seeding which some people feel is not the same as chemtrails (I believe it is the same) and what substance was used to make the impact on sky above I do not know.
It seems that the naysayers can't tell us why the chemtrails hang on and on while contrails dissipate rather quickly and don't make a hazy mess of the sky. They deny the evidence seen by their own eyes. Willfully blind and you can't help them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Sorry but you have agreed that there is such thing as seeding clouds and those are chemicals put into the air. So the question is while cloud seeding with a sprayer from an airplane does it leave a trail. I am certain we could easily look up pictures even from old newspaper articles and reliable sources to get our answer. The farmers have known about cloud seeding for years or so I have heard.
Except that you can't - you can only do so by denying the obvious differences in how a contrail is formed and for how long they normally persist, AND by denying the thousands to hundreds of thousands of photographs showing the different persisting characteristics of Chemtrails. As well you must deny the eyewitness testimony of intelligent, responsible, people who have seen them with their own two eyes. The entire anti-chemtrail/debunker argument relies solely and only upon on the denial of evidence.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I thought that was hilarious! There have been only a few that have posted evidence on this thread. You aren't one of them. Even though you were invited to present your evidence, as have others, but you people have consistently and explicitly refused to do so.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I have pictures taken from my yard of Chemtrails in their various stages throughout a four hour period. Whether it was cloud seeding which some people feel is not the same as chemtrails (I believe it is the same) and what substance was used to make the impact on sky above I do not know. Earlier, I asked you to read this thread from top to bottom. I already dispelled your opinion two days ago. See below: Thank you. Your picture and YouTube presentation use a similar theme: a very high altitude jet aircraft is emitting water vapor and a relatively low flying jet aircraft has emitted water vapor. In the case of the "contrail" the water vapor quickly freezes changing the reflectivity index, so you don't see the apparent trail for very long based on the angle of the pictures to the craft and the angle of the Sun at that time. And for the lower flying jet aircraft wherein the "Chemtrail" appears to linger forever.... at the altitude flown, freezing did not occur. And there are other factors as well, air temperature, air velocity, time of day and actual chemical composition of the exhaust since air and jet fuel components need to be factored into the water vapor mixture that has been expelled. The trigger mechanism or ignition of 9/11 about the twin towers collapse was about jet aircraft pounding into the twin towers. Jet aircraft fuel is very flammable which leads us back into Chemtrails. That same combustion mixture (depending on the aircraft) gets transferred (although, very small trace amounts) into the exhausted water vapor. This leads to the variations you see in the sky. "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." -- Ronald Reagan, circa 1977 buckeroo posted on 2010-03-14 20:16:45 ET See post just above.
Cloud seeding and/or crop dusting and/or fuel ejection (for landing purposes) have all been dispelled to the central theme or suggestion of the thread. Please read my new banner below to describe the core issue(s). You can click on it to zoom into the details.
Some people think those who believe there was government involvement in the 9/11 attacks aren't only foolish, but are domestic terrorists. So do you agree with them and believe that 9/11 truthers are all misinformed, blind, and misled, and are all terrorists at heart?
Being the fact there is official denial that they even exist makes it sort of difficult to know exactly WHY they are doing, or even exactly WHAT they are doing.
They'll just turn around and claim that it's either perfectly normal, or that it doesn't really happen, roll the dice and see which answer you get.
Oh, I am not going to bother much with people who won't believe their own eyes. Life is too short.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Apples and oranges. Stick to the topic. Edit to add: Do it, but I wont see it. This is just too stupid to continue and the thread is going on ignore.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Lets see your critical analysis interpret the difference.
You have a severe comprehension problem don't you? I just said--you even copied and pasted it--that LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BOTHER WITH PEOPLE WHO WON'T BELIEVE THEIR OWN EYES. That certainly includes you. Be off with you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. No, I don't ... I am holding your feet to fire as you casually make posts not addressing the specific technical details beyond just some silly assumption. Earlier you suggested ... just a few posts ago: Notice the way you are abusive. Notice the way and manner you are condescending in attitude. But, there are no facts to back up your self-opinionated posts; none, zero, zilch, nada. You are defensive. You don't know what you are talking about.
No, I am not defensive at all. I don't doubt my own eyes. Apparently you have some kind of vision problem and think your eyes are playing tricks on you or you just stay close to blind drunk. I don't know what other major malfunction you might have and don't have time to keep talking about it. This will be my last post to you on this thread so go ahead and have the last word. I think I can safely rest knowing that it will be as ignorant as the first one.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. No facts, no data, no research .... just yammering.
As well you must deny the eyewitness testimony of intelligent, responsible, people who have seen them with their own two eyes. can you look at a picture of an airplane and tell what altitude it's flying at, what the temperature is at that altitude, and what the relative humidity is at that altitude? can you look at an airplane passing over and tell, with your "own two eyes", what altitude the airplane is flying at, what the temperature is at that altitude, and what the relative humidity is at that altitude?
The humidity and temperature would be impossible (unless it's raining), but the altitude isn't that hard to approximate given the size of the aircraft in the sky, especially when viewed with binoculars. The exact altitude no, but a rough approximation is in fact possible. It's not difficult to see how high an aircraft is in relation to cloud cover, where if a certain type a cloud forms at X number of feet, and the plane is below those clouds, then it is flying at an altitude less than X. The inverse can also be said about aircraft flying above certain types of clouds, yet are visible when passing over breaks in the clouds. I've never seen chemtrails form BELOW cloud cover of ANY type, but HAVE seen contrails form from aircraft flying ABOVE or BETWEEN clouds.
The humidity and temperature would be impossible (unless it's raining), but the altitude isn't that hard to approximate given the size of the aircraft in the sky ...but you think you can tell the type of aircraft (note here that "type" refers to the technical designation of the aircraft model... as in "boeing 747") and you have the dimensions of all aircraft types memorized, so you can "tell" what altitude they flying at. you're a really talented fella. i notice you dont want to talk about photographic evidence of "chemtrails"... why is that? anyhow, you freely admit that you would have no idea of two of the most important conditions that cause contrails ---temperature and humidity--- and pardon me for being skeptical of your ability to judge altitude. so, in other words, your "eyewitness" evidence is balderdash, and photographic "evidence" is so preposterous that you dont even want to talk about it. good enough
Does this look like 'pancaking'? Does this look like 'condensation'? what altitude are those aiplanes flying at? what is the temperature and humidity of the air they're flying in? where does that altitude, temperature and humidity fall on an appleman chart?
once you give us the altitude, temperature and humidity, we can figure out from the appleman chart if contrails are possible, and whether or not those contrails will be persistent. if the altitude, temp and humidity fall outside the appleman chart, then we can start wondering about spraying operations. or, we can try to figure out if the picture has been photoshopped or not... then, after we decide whether or not the pictures are for real, we can start talking about the finer points: type of aircraft, normal fuel consumption, power settings at the time the picture was taken, how much the contrails were compressed and foreshortened by the telephoto lens... stuff like that.
what i mean is... it isnt as if you havent already posted a couple bogus pictures on this thread...
just to cheer you up... here's a picture of a building in fairbanks being used to spray chemtrails.
What cause have you to believe that the exhaust plume coming from the turbines is something other than H20, CO, CO2 and unspent hydrocarbons? What chemical would cause those fluffy trails? Barium? I'm sure that there are a lot of nasty things that could be spread if someone had access to and control of aircraft, and with the appropriate hardware, no one on the ground would notice a thing because a lot of damage could be done quite invisibly.
I took this thread off of ignore. I just couldn't stay away. Like a dog to its vomit... Does this look like 'pancaking'? Apples and oranges. Stay on topic. THIS looks like pancaking. Let's go pancaking! I love pancakes! Does this look like 'condensation'? Yes.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or These people are forgetting something important about persistent contrails. It's the speed of the aircraft. The cruising speed of a B17 is 150 mph. www.boeing.com/history/boeing/b17.html I use the B17 example because of the pics I posted earlier that showed persistent contrails. The cruising speed of a 767 is mach .8, which at 30,000' comes out to about 550 mph, according to the calculator presented here: www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html In any given time, a contrail will be 3X+ longer in todays jets, because, for the dense out there, the cruising speed is 3X+ greater. That will give the illusion of persistence. Now combine that with greater numbers of aircraft flying at any given time. Taking into account the increase of air traffic over the years and it is hardly surprising that there are so-called whiteouts in appropriate conditions.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or good point... and then there's fuel consumption, which is higher in a jet than a recip, so they're producing more water.
This is *ONE* of the finest threads under the Sun.
Agreed. But it would be interesting to know how much more water is produced at cruise settings in real terms, and not just guessing. I know there are a lot of variables.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I don't know about that, but it does show some peoples thought processes.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I use the B17 example because of the pics I posted earlier that showed persistent contrails. The cruising speed of a 767 is mach .8, which at 30,000' comes out to about 550 mph, according to the calculator presented here: www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html In any given time, a contrail will be 3X+ longer in todays jets apparently a 767 burns about 1,722 gallons per hour, and a B17 burned 200 gallons per hour.
Yeah, but it's a completely different kind of fuel. How much water is released? How about other chemicals that are released due to combustion? I barely passed high school chemistry. There is a way to answer this "chemtrail" nonsense scientifically, in one neat tidy package, and not in a topic approaching 600 posts, a good portion of which is nothing but idiotic nonsense. But I can't do it because I don't know what these variables are exactly. We can only address some of them. That is enough to disprove it, but I know there is more. This whole thing is based on deception, that you found, regarding photoshopped pics, and a whole bunch of crap spread on the internet. It's unfortunate, but a big part of the programming we all get from our days in school is that if it is in print, then it's true. Especially if it goes along with what we think our government is capable of doing to us. And if a person sounds authoritative, then that makes it true too. People lie. All the time. And they spread lies. All the time. You can see it here. Chemtrails are a hoax that took on a life of its own.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Did you see post #565 from groundresonance? He introduces the Appleman Chart. You can follow one link here ....
apparently gasoline produces about a gallon of water for each gallon of gas burned... jet fuel produces a little more than a gallon of water for each gallon burned.
I didn't know how to answer FL's point of view on that post. I had previously brought up the point and he seems to dismiss it and then refine the idea in terms of a cylindrical volume of gaseous space. In any event we are not looking at one gallon of water.
A plane of any sort doesn't burn enough fuel to put that much water vapor or condensation into the air. Even if it did (though it can't) it would disappear quickly.
Incorrect. You haven't introduced the various physical parameters of altitude, air speed, temperature and other important technical details into your reasoning.
Yes, I do. By that token even ordinary jet aircraft burning ordinary jet fuel could not produce ordinary contrails without falling from the sky because they would soon run out of fuel. Wonder what keeps them up there??
These spaces where the chemtrails stop and start: Is that where the engine stops and starts running again. To save fuel maybe?
Contrail Chemtrails how bout giving us the altitude, temperature and humidity at those places where the contrails disappeared, so we can plug the numbers into an appleman chart and see if maybe it was too warm or too humid for contrails to form.
Not contrails: how bout shoving yer head in a bucket of shit
what's the altitude, temp and humidity in the air where those contrails are appearing?
Not contrails. can you tell us the altitude, temperature and humidity of the air those planes are flying through? maybe that air is right smack dab on the max persistence line of the appleman chart...
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Wings with a bit of thrust.
That is surprising. I never would have thought it would be a 1:1 ratio, or very close to it! So all it would take is some math and a bit of accurate photo interpretation to measure the actual trail out of each engine, and calculate how much water vapor is in in that contrail vs how much fuel is burned in that sample. I assume that the air would be totally saturated by water vapor at that point? Or, at least at the engines exhaust. Using one of the cherry picked pics of "chemtrails" posted here would actually help disprove chemtrails, since the more water vapor visible the more accurate the calculations would be. I guess it does come down to photo interpretation after all. But not in the same way that the "chemtrail" crowd (mis)uses them.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or .
Comparison of Contrail and Chemtrail Chemtrail at 1:30
Water vapor dissipates and disappears. Quickly.
Nonsense. It's morse code smoke signals from the Draconian reptilian overlords to their underlings in the illuminati. I bet the poor unfortunate person that took this video is pushing up daisies now... And to those that dare post it... You poor poor man. Your fate is sealed.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or .
I just want to point out that your video had some AWESOME accompanying music. Thank you.
you cant make any calculations, i dont think, without knowing the temp and humidity... altitude isnt so critical. then there's fuel consumption, which relates to throttle setting, which relates to flight regime... for instance, if you're balls to the wall on climbout, you're gonna be pouring tons of water into the air, and you're only gonna be doing 150kts or so, because that's max rate of climb... low airspeed + max power = dense contrails. if you hang around in canada or alaska or someplace where you can run into -40 temps, or if you're in a chase plane behind the subject plane at max climb at altitude, you should be able to get some great pictures. and your telephoto compresses and foreshortens the image, too, if you're using a telephoto lense. you gotta wonder how come these mysterious substances are invisible when they first come out of the engine. more reptilian meddling, i guess.
I bet the poor unfortunate person that took this video is pushing up daisies now... And to those that dare post it... You poor poor man. Your fate is sealed. Earlier, I awarded you best sarcasm of the thread award. Now, you are going for best sarcasm of the Universe. Does anyone second the nomination?
It's morse code smoke signals from the Draconian reptilian overlords to their underlings in the illuminati. I bet the poor unfortunate person that took this video is pushing up daisies now... And to those that dare post it... You poor poor man. Your fate is sealed. it's not as if you didnt deserve it.
Air Traffic Controllers Concerned Over Chemtrails
Airplane Contrails vs Airplane Chemtrails
I think you're right, for the reasons you list. Calculations would only be a SWAG, which defeats the point of calculating something. That pic is interesting. It was shopped! LOL!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation. Controllers across the United States know from their professional training that these chemicals fall to the ground. Without exception they expressed their concern to Deep Sky about possible risks to human health, "They want to know what the heck is in there," S.T. Brendt reported. "One of them said, 'Aluminum or barium' that's not something you want to be breathing." This bears looking into, no?
yeah, i'll get right on it just as soon as these reptilian alien motherfuckers quit probing my anus. rense
Sounds painful. I make it a practice to avoid riding around in alien spacecraft. Get you some Dermolate.
i looked around for some way to figure out the volume occupied by a gallon's worth of water vapor at ...say, 30,000 feet, but i didnt come up with much. It will take about 15,965 cubic feet of air at that temperature and humidity to hold 1 gallon of water. maybe, after my anal probe is done and i finish looking into rense's reptilian controllers, i'll get back to it.
Why not appeal to reason? A little bit of capability towards the physics of the observations can show that much can be explained away for the apparent observations.
Chemtrails stay in the sky. Contrails don't.
Wrong answer. The difference is variations in dissipation rates over time. Even your "chemtrails" eventually dissipate to the point that the observations from ground can not distinguish a "chemtrail" from the sky's background.
I'll try and do it. It's out of my comfort zone though, and I might make mistakes. I'll go with an arbitrary -40F temp, which is 233 Kelvin. www.allmeasures.com/temperature.html Plug that 233K here: users.wpi.edu/~ierardi/FireTools/water_vapor.html and you get a density of 0.925446331910432 kg/m3 A gallon of water weighs 3.7854118 kg www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/subsection1_4_2_0_7.html A cubic meter of vapor at that temp. then holds .2444 gallons of water vapor. ( .92544 / 3.7854 ) Where to go from there? I don't know ;). For all I know, I am entirely wrong about this.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or me, neither. maybe after a nap i can deal with it... not now. poor ol' wudidiz has turned my brain to hamburger.
I don't care if they call them chemtrails or if they insist that they are contrails. Whatever they are they did not use to be there and whatever is causing them should be made known to the public and any adverse affects it may have on us. If they were open and above board we would all know what is causing them and be able to view the impact study. I think that the major concern is that they are there whether it be from cloud seeding, a fuel they are using, or any other chemicals being sprayed in the air. The bottom line is what is causing them and why don't we ALL know. I am sure we would agree on that.
what if they're being caused by the 1700 gallons per hour per plane of water that's being injected into cold air that's the right humidity?
Sorry, didn't see this post. I saw the chart. You know, this topic reminds me of one of the things my mom used to say to me all the time. It was that I had a "one track mind". Once I decided on something, that was it. Now I know what I put my poor mother through. Karma: It's a bitch!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I just had a brilliant idea! Using that chart you posted, and weather forecasts from the FAA(?), I could write up a "Chemtrail Warning Alert" for a some major cities! Imagine the possibilities! I could even come up with something similar to the Fujita scale! I could be a VIP!!!! Perhaps, over time, I could charge money for this information! I could be a millionaire! Those that take this shit seriously will then stay indoors and out of traffic, easing congestion! Imagine the fuel savings! Think of the smog reduction! Oh I am definitely on to something here! This is good! Real good!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or You and wadosy/groundresonance both lost this argument before you started.
Wrong answer. The difference is variations in dissipation rates over time. Even your "chemtrails" eventually dissipate to the point that the observations from ground can not distinguish a "chemtrail" from the sky's background. Chemtrails stay in the sky for a long time. Contrails don't. Better?
Uh huh. Sure we did. I'll leave it up to other people to decide. Perhaps THEY will be able to talk specifics instead of regurgitating the same old crap time after time. At least in this thread. Do you keep a dossier on all members here? LOL! Especially from someone that last posted over a year ago? And you know they are the same person somehow? Too bad you cant put forth the same effort in making sense in your posts in this thread.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Exactly.
I agree with you. The willfully blind won't but that is their problem.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. what if they're being caused by the 1700 gallons per hour per plane of water that's being injected into cold air that's the right humidity? If that is the case then why didn't they cause the skies to emit clouds and change the skies before. That is a big what if and the whole thing is we SHOULD KNOW not a bunch of what ifs. Do you think that if the government did decide to spray sulfa into the air they would inform the public? I don't. And therein is the problem no openness and no accountability to the public. There should be records and we should be allowed to view them.
That serves you poorly in how it exacerbates your brutally ignorant and hateful racial bigotry.
I think what makes it look like a metallic haze is aluminum oxide. That and a bunch of other things. Barium, copper, magnesium, mercury and more. edit: forgot the comma after copper
I like pancakes! I like Aunt Jemimah maple syrup! Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Some people just do not want to believe that the government would do ANYTHING that would bring harm to the citizens. Some people desire to believe that the government is generally good. It is a nice romantic notion of an honest, open, and government that actually was for the people, by the people. Unfortunately that government no longer exist. One example is the FDA. For a buck they would give us poison. I am thinking about after I see them really working the skies and those things turn into clouds the next rainfall I might capture some of the water and take it down to have it analyzed. I will have to go down and find out the different prices for the different contents but I know they do have independent water testing for wells up here.
I think catching some water and having it tested for the different medals would prove interesting. Air testing is too difficult but water testing is not.
"and more" huh? And how did you reach your conclusion? You forgot the red blood cells, bacteria, virus, the kitchen sink, pixie dust, etc. This just keeps getting more and more surreal!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or People have done it. www.rense.com/general79/chemm.htm There's more I can show you later if you like.
Clean up the oceans! Kill dolphins! They're ugly! They foul tuna nets! And I like tuna!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Here's another...
One example is the FDA. For a buck they would give us poison. And for another buck refuse to allow you to have drugs already proven effective in other countries. I am thinking about after I see them really working the skies and those things turn into clouds the next rainfall I might capture some of the water and take it down to have it analyzed. I will have to go down and find out the different prices for the different contents but I know they do have independent water testing for wells up here. Sounds like a good plan.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Better? No. Your observations do not critically differentiate between the two "independent" phenomenons. Essentially all you are saying is that water is wet and air is dry; it is nearly meaningless.
You bring up an excellent point. Maybe government has nothing better to do but obfuscate the difference between chemtrails and contrails to begin with? Maybe the government is intentionally keeping our eyes on the sky wondering what is going up there so we don't see what is happening in Washington DC. Just a thought.
Has anyone ever told you that you have a comprehension problem?
I suppose... what on Earth do you think this means relevant to little plumes of water vapor to larger plumes of water vapor emitted by relative high altitude jets as witnessed from the ground?
A flight plan over the the whole of the US over a 24-hour period. Google employee and artist Aaron Koblin uses data from the US Federal Aviation Administration to create maps of air traffic over a 24-hour period UK telegraph The week in pictures: 18 December 2009
That's a loaded question. You're arguing like a little girl, Buck.
I can't breathe. I need help.
So?
I have been "nice" and "kind" to this moment. Now, my bearing and demeanor is changing. You don't answer any questions; you don't support your own thesis with facts, figures and demonstrable technical details to convince me or anyone that you are just yammering.
Modern art? A flight plan over Atlanta over a 24-hour period. The focus is Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport in Georgia Striking kaleidoscopic images capture flight paths over America UK daily mail 17th December 2009
Pinned down: The locations of the cities and states across North America beneath the flight paths Read more ---more pictures here, too, and they're bigger and arent screwed up by resizing them to fit the forum.
24 hours of U.S. flight paths: Satellite view of Chemtrails Southeast U.S.: The flight paths go from point a to point b. The chemtrails.... not so much.
if it's that big an operation, how come you guys cant come up with any evidence?
Heh, and this is supposed to shock me coming from you? It amuses me, it's the sort of irrationality that is your trademark. ;-D Thanks for sharing, buttercup.
The chemtrails.... not so much. uh huh. does the temperature and humidity stay the same everywhere, all the time, at all altitudes? or is the atmosphere like carly simon's "clouds in my coffee"? and what about winds aloft? ...if an airplane is flying at 35,000 feet, and there's a 100 mph crosswind at that altitude, then what happens to that jet's contrail? where is the contrail of a jet that comes by, on the same airway, 15 minutes later?
The funny-shaped (triangular) planes are Beechcraft Starships, from the same designer (Burt Rutan) of the SpaceShipOne fame (the first privately funded spacecraft to enter the realm of space twice within a two week period). They are NOT chemtrail planes.
_________________________________________________________________________ No, the temperature and humidity conveniently change at the end of each chemtrail just so YOU can win this argument and look intelligent on the thread so as to impress the Ladies. ;-) Just kidding wadosy.
Thanks.
WOWZA, no wonder your brain pan is popping on no cylinders. Dude, high fructose corn syrup, and other ingredients you need a chemist degree to pronounce. I would switch to a healthier syrup. I realize the fictional trademark reminds you of Mom and her apple pancakes, Rice Crispie marshmallow treats, and other iconic White boy finger food, but you need to get over her dude. She is a fictional character, even if she is a very nice looking middle aged woman.
looks to me like your problem is this: the only thing you got going for you is an emotional aversion to contrails, and you've convinced yourself that they're "chemtrials". you're unable to provide evidence of a "chemtrail" project, and you refuse to accept evidence of natural chemical and physical processes that create chemtrails. you dont have much going for you other than bullheadedness fueled by emotion. but it's all good, since it gives the rest of us a chance to show what's really going on.
You remind me of yukon.
you're unable to provide evidence of a "chemtrail" project, and you refuse to accept evidence of natural chemical and physical processes that create chemtrails. you dont have much going for you other than bullheadedness fueled by emotion. but it's all good, since it gives the rest of us a chance to show what's really going on. looks to me like your problem is this: the only thing you got going for you is an emotional aversion to chemtrails, and you've convinced yourself that they're "contrails". you're unable to accept evidence of a "chemtrail" project, and you refuse to accept evidence of unnatural chemical and physical processes that create chemtrails. you dont have much going for you other than bullheadedness fueled by emotion. but it's all good, since it gives the rest of us a chance to show what's really going on.
Ya man, that's the real stuff right there. The true nectar of the sugar maple tree. One taste of that, and I guarantee all your Aunt J. pin-up pictures will be heading to the landfill, Post Script USA. ;-)
2010-03-13 16:47:57 ET 2010-03-17 22:44:33 ET So much stamina. Amazing.
Don't think so; much smarter than Yukon and doesn't show anger and lash out when he is pissed anywhere near the same way.
sorry, but i'm not the one that posts lies in support of my "chemtrail" theory. if you could provide one shred of legitimate proof of a "chemtrail" project in progress, it would be different. meanwhile, others of us have been posting page after page after page of explanations of how, why, when, and where contrails will form because of well documented, well known chemical and physical processes. worst of all, every "contrail" picture you post is worth absolutely nothing, because it does not have data about the flight's altitude, or the temp and humidity of the air that the airplane's flying through... and your "eyewitness" stuff is just as lame, seeing as how you dont know the altitude of the planes, and havent the foggiest idea as to the temperature and humidity at that altitude. emotion and bullheadedness, that's all you got.
I don't think so either. It's just how he ignores proof presented, demands impossible proof and complete solutions that reminds me of yukon. I seriously question whether yukon is a real person or not.
That and the ability to discern fact from fiction. And I'm good lookin'!
now that you've posted photographs that are out-and-out lies, the "proof" you present is even more suspect than ever.
me, too
meanwhile, others of us have been posting page after page after page of explanations of how, why, when, and where contrails will form because of well documented, well known chemical and physical processes. worst of all, every "contrail" picture you post is worth absolutely nothing, because it does not have data about the flight's altitude, or the temp and humidity of the air that the airplane's flying through... and your "eyewitness" stuff is just as lame, seeing as how you dont know the altitude of the planes, and havent the foggiest idea as to the temperature and humidity at that altitude." Tell yo what dude, I am a pilot, a former U.S. Army UH-1H mechanic and crew chief from a family full of living and dead aviators. His stuff makes sense to me. He does make sense in the above quote. I admire and enjoy your enthusiasm, and I am not fully convinced there is not something going on with the contrails. But remember, the atmosphere is different an constantly changing, as is aviation. He is always going to be able to stalemate you as long as he continues to correctly identify your evidence as not vetted properly with objective scientific study done in an impartial manner. That is just why posting on these forums can be frustrating. Both of you are doing great jobs working your side of the issue. Unfortunately for your advocacy here, he knows where the gray area is buried and is not afraid to dig it up.
Two scientists working at Wright Patterson Air Force Base confirmed to the Ohio newspaper, Columbus Alive, that they were involved in aerial spraying experiments. One involved aluminum oxide spraying related to global warming and the other involved barium stearate and had to do with high-tech military communications. And even in the face of government denials, environmental laboratories have begun to identify an extremely toxic component of the spray drifting over cities and countryside. Several independent sources claim that samples of fallout from the lingering smoke trails and have been independently tested and found to contain ethylene dibromide (EDB).
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
...but you're apparently unable to name those sources, and you're unable to confirm that the "fallout" is coming from "chemtrails". what would be wrong with you organizing a project to recruit people to spot "chemtrails" for you, put together a sampling crew including bona fide atmospheric scientists, hire a plane, and take samples directly from the "chemtrails"?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"do not fade away like a normal contrail..." which means they could have been persistent contrails, but we have no way of knowing because bill nichols had no way of determining the altitude, temperature and humidity of the "chemtrails". nobody knows where the barium came from. i guess bill nichols should save his pennies and hire a plane to take direct samples of his "chemtrails". please post evidence of increased mortality in stamps, arkansas. please post evidence that bill nichols didnt soup up his sample a little before he turned it over to the movie guys. please post evidence that bill nichols' fame lasted longer than 15 minutes.
My friend, please answer the two questions I asked in post #564 and tell me what you think when comparing the two images in post #649
disinfo
.
Contrails are the result of condensation from engine exhaust. They follow the plane only a few lengths behind, dissipate and disappear quickly. Chemtrails stay in the sky and spread out across the sky forming a light haze. Ice crystals from condensation from engine exhaust would not spread out across the sky forming a haze. Are we to believe that Airplanes now make clouds? Is that the 'Latest Science'?
'Latest Science' Brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
7190 meters is about 23,600 feet. are you saying that contrails cant form at 23,600 feet if the temp is -35 and the humidity is 32%? why dont you plot those figures on an appleman chart and see what you come up with.
Definitions Let’s take a look at how the dictionaries define “contrails,” or “condensation trails.” 1.Streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane or rocket at high altitudes; year, 1943 (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contrail) 2. A cloudlike streamer frequently seen forming behind aircraft flying in clear, cold, humid air (http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/ams/glossary.html) 3. A cloud-like streamer or trail often seen behind aircraft flying in clear, cold, humid air. A vapor trail is created when the water vapor from the engine exhaust gases are added to the atmosphere. (http://www.weather.com/glossary/c.html) 4. An artificial cloud created by an aircraft; caused either by condensation due to the reduction in air pressure above the wing surface or by water vapor in the engine exhaust. (http://www.dictionaryofdefinitions.com/what-is-the-definition-of-contrail.html) Note that the first definition (written in 1943) mentions “streaks” of condensed water vapor, rather than “cloud-like” formations. The more modern definitions seem to focus on a similarity between clouds and contrails, as if contrails normally can morph into clouds and remain in the sky for hours at a time. I don't need an 'appleman chart' to know that real contrails don't stay in the sky like your so called 'persistant contrails' do. 'Persistant contrail' is the governments word for something that is not a contrail. Sorry, you're not even close.
okay... so i guess you wont mind if i plot that data from the video, huh?
That's what this guy's saying: What video?
that video you took down after i told you it was haywire. nevermind, i can probably find it again. EDIT: here it is, in case anyone wants to watch another example of ignorance from a "chemtrail" believer.
What a f**k-show.
I took it down before you replied to it. I decided it wasn't worth discussing.
The 9-11 shot I agree was caused by explosives. The contrail picture is dramatic, but there are too many variables and not enough specific and well measure data to answer your question with a "yes, those have to be chemically enhanced." There well may be a real contrail conspiracy, but as much as I admire how you stick to your guns and regardless of the enthusiasm of your advocacy, I have to truthfully say I don't see enough evidence measured and quantified properly to agree with any more than that anything is possible. Apologies, I really have to be honest.
I wouldn't have asked you if I thought you'd lie. :-) I understand that my "contrails dissipate and disappear" lacks evidence that would force you to be convinced. If you don't know that you have only my word to take as proof. That isn't enough. I know they're not contrails. I remember when contrails were defined differently than they are now. I remember when rarely if ever were there chemtrails or 'persistent contrails' (a term based on a lie). I remember when the sky was a clearer blue and not covered with a light haze from whatever the airplanes are dumping.
LOL! Dey mus' have been sprayin' Love Potion #9. ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. WEll that is the first thing you said in some time that makes sense. HFCS is a killer, and they only use it because per each can of soda for example, it's like one cent cheaper than cane / beet sugar. It's best avoided. It's probably why so many are obese.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or You have to apologize to be honest?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or if you could provide one shred of legitimate proof of a "chemtrail" project in progress, it would be different. meanwhile, others of us have been posting page after page after page of explanations of how, why, when, and where contrails will form because of well documented, well known chemical and physical processes. worst of all, every "contrail" picture you post is worth absolutely nothing, because it does not have data about the flight's altitude, or the temp and humidity of the air that the airplane's flying through... and your "eyewitness" stuff is just as lame, seeing as how you dont know the altitude of the planes, and havent the foggiest idea as to the temperature and humidity at that altitude. emotion and bullheadedness, that's all you got. You just distilled an almost 700 post thread into one neat package.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or The chemtrails.... not so much. So exactly what is the variation between a contrail and a chemtrail in terms of an observation? Do they always make that "X" or zig-zag as your earlier pictures suggest?
If one wants to denote a difference between difference of some deference to polite respect of others to disgust of their belief system fuel by hatred and fear, and how it makes them a thief of the social standing and respect of others, it is appropriate to frame criticism that way, yes. I absolutely do not in any way hate you, or anyone else in this forum. But that does not apply to my loathing of racism. Understand now? You probably don't at first glance, so think about it. ;-)
Great pictures. I was in a park once and saw two raccoons in a tree. A Mom and her two kids were walking my way and I thought to share the delights of seeing nature with them and pointed these critters out. Just then, they made it plain one was a boy the other a girl as they started to make bacon. Man, did that lady give me a look that could kill.
Bullshit. If you're honest, there is no need to apologize. If there is a difference of opinion, then state the difference. It's not personal.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Mr. wudidiz ... you can't say that just yet. You have to have a song! Indeed so. I agree.
Yeah, its caused by jet fuel.
Let’s take a look at how the dictionaries define “contrails,” or “condensation trails.” 1.Streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane or rocket at high altitudes; year, 1943 (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contrail) 2. A cloudlike streamer frequently seen forming behind aircraft flying in clear, cold, humid air (http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/ams/glossary.html) 3. A cloud-like streamer or trail often seen behind aircraft flying in clear, cold, humid air. A vapor trail is created when the water vapor from the engine exhaust gases are added to the atmosphere. (http://www.weather.com/glossary/c.html) 4. An artificial cloud created by an aircraft; caused either by condensation due to the reduction in air pressure above the wing surface or by water vapor in the engine exhaust. (http://www.dictionaryofdefinitions.com/what-is-the-definition-of-contrail.html) Note that the first definition (written in 1943) mentions “streaks” of condensed water vapor, rather than “cloud-like” formations. The more modern definitions seem to focus on a similarity between clouds and contrails, as if contrails normally can morph into clouds and remain in the sky for hours at a time. They're trying to change the definition of a contrail, but are not accounting for WHY THESE 'NEW' CONTRAILS ACT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE OLD ONES! Exactly - if you can't change the evidence change the explanation of the evidence. It shows you that there are lawyer-like minds helping to create the disinformation. Of course it is another thing which Orwell spoke of in 1984 - "Newspeak". Control the definitions of the terms and you control the discussion. So, the definition of contrails morphs over time into a definition resembling more and more the Chemtrail definition to the point where semantically they are indistinguishable. It is an important concept to understand because it is more than Chemtrails this has occurred with. Look at the Middle East - people fighting for their homes against a foreign invader were first called a resistance (and then the Bush Junta objected), so they became "insurgents" - as though people resisting a foreign invasion were resisting a legitimate government rather than a puppet. Israel is a past master at it - where ten year olds throwing rocks become "terrorists" and therefore a legitimate target for a sniper's bullet.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I find it hard to swallow that whatever burning fuel that was not consumed in the giant fireballs visible outside those buildings was capable of bringing down a quarter million tons of steel in each event. The resulting building fires were on the wane when the Towers crumpled up and fell nearly straight down.
I see psyops everywhere.
You can't boil a melon with a candle, and you can't destroy buildings like that with JP-4. Jet fuel burns fast, but does not explode. You need real explosives like thermite to do that. 9-11 was an inside job. The jetliner hijacking to ram them was just used as cover and concealment for deeper dirty work. Not to mention the Jihadists were guests to their own scapegoating for bunker busting work their acts of terror were incapable of causing.
I don't want to veer off the central thread topic. But you do realize, that irrespective of the way the towers came down the initial trigger mechanism was a jet crashing into the various or respective buildings, correct? So, lets cut to the chase with a classical enigma solved ... which came first the chicken or the egg?
See immediately above.
Thermite is not an explosive.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Isn't this one of the more fun threads you have been on? I love it!
I "realize" no such thing, bucky.
I see psyops everywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite And I knew that, thanks for the correction. I got a chance to 'play' with white phosphorus in the U.S. Army and learned that about thermite then as well. I should do better now I am finally drinking my first cuppa java. ;-)
Fun? I don't know. It's certainly lively. But in over 700 posts, we are right where we began. Some have tried to talk sense to the True Believers, and it went in one ear and right out the other. Probably because it didn't meet any resistance due to empty brain cavities. But like little kids, they do love the pictures in their story books! LOL!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Take a minute out and consider what has been learned. There are two apparent sides to the discussion: protagonists (advancing the differentiation of apparent chemtrails from contrails) and antagonists (dismissing much of the appearance). The protagonists have not listened to one input from the antagonists; the inputs are rejected because, in their final analysis the antagonists are nothing more than government supporters. Oh, I just love it! It doesn't get better than this. The complete denial of facts, figures and realistically presented data supporting intelligent analysis is the core reason for the way America operates these days.
I can see that, if you are trying to understand others thought processes, such as they are... I went thru the same thing when I first started posting about Alex Jones here. It's funny watching some people go thru all kinds of contortions to avoid seeing facts. They sure do love their sacred cows.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#2. To: wudidiz (#0)
#3. To: wudidiz (#0)
#4. To: randge (#2)
There is nothing in the volume or color of the visible gases that is unusual in these trails. I've seen them many times aloft and from the ground.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#5. To: wudidiz (#4)
#6. To: randge (#5)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#7. To: randge (#2)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#8. To: wudidiz (#6)
There's simply not enough condensation from the exhaust for them to remain visible for long. Beginning in the mid to late 90s these chemtrails started appearing. They increased in number much after 9/11.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#9. To: randge (#6)
research it on the Internet
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#10. To: wudidiz (#6)
physically impossible
#11. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker (#10)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#12. To: wudidiz (#6)
There's not a chance in hell that those long trails we see left in the sky by some airliners now are condensation.
The chemical reaction of the combustion process produces water vapor. For kerosene, the water vapor produced is just over one gallon of water (if condensation occurs) per gallon of kerosene burned.
#13. To: wudidiz, randge (#6)
My Dad was a fighter pilot. He went on to be an airline pilot. I went to many airshows and he told me a lot about airplanes. I had a habit of always watching the sky as airplanes went by and knew my planes quite well. That's not to say I'm an expert by any means. But I knew what a contrail was from an early age. They would follow the airliners across the sky only a few lengths behind. They are condensation from engine exhaust. Therefore the name 'con-trails'. They would always dissipate quickly as contrails do. There's simply not enough condensation from the exhaust for them to remain visible for long. Beginning in the mid to late 90s these chemtrails started appearing. They increased in number much after 9/11. There's not a chance in hell that those long trails we see left in the sky by some airliners now are condensation. Simply physically impossible.
#14. To: Original_Intent (#13)
The Chemtrails we see today, which first began in the late 80's to early 90's are qualitatively different from a standard contrail.
#15. To: groundresonance (#14)
how do you tell a persistent contrail or contrail cirrus clouds from "chemtrails"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#16. To: FormerLurker (#15)
#17. To: groundresonance, wudidiz, randge (#14)
What's the difference between a jet contrail and a chemtrail? Link to Source - "Your Life As A Human Test Subject"
According to the U.S. Air Force, jet contrails form above 33,000 feet when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses ice crystals into pencil-thin vapor trails that quickly vanish like the wake behind a boat.
Chemtrails (CTs) look like contrails initially, but are much thicker, extend across the sky and are often laid down in varying patterns of Xs, tick-tack-toe grids, cross-hatched and parallel lines. Instead of quickly dissipating, chemtrails expand and drip feathers and mare s tails. In 30 minutes or less, they open into wispy formations which join together, forming a thin white veil or a "fake cirrus-type cloud" that persists for hours.
In August 2000, chemtrail watchers began to report "more normal" appearing or nearly invisible jet sprays. However, these reports go on to include cloud formations dripping the feathers and mare s tails just as the chemtrails do. It s our belief that the operation has adjusted the chemtrail mix as word about the phenomenon is spreading and as more and more people are looking up. Observant chemtrail watchers continue to see the "fake cirrus-type clouds" on top of and surrounding real cumulus clouds.
#18. To: FormerLurker (#15)
criss-crossing each other's paths
#19. To: All (#17)
#20. To: Original_Intent (#17)
#21. To: Original_Intent (#19)
Chemtrails are often laid at altitudes well below the altitude required to produce the freezing temperatures needed to form a standard contrail
#22. To: groundresonance (#18)
here's a high altitude IFR enroute chart of federal airways.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#23. To: Original_Intent (#19)
#24. To: FormerLurker (#22)
(Edited)
You think I don't know the difference between normal air traffic and something that isn't normal?
#25. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#21)
(From "The Logical Fallacies entry on Loaded Words): Exposition:
A word or phrase is "loaded" when it has a secondary, evaluative meaning in addition to its primary, descriptive meaning. When language is "loaded", it is loaded with its evaluative meaning. A loaded word is like a loaded gun, and its evaluative meaning is the bullet.
Unloaded Loaded
Plant Weed
Animal Beast While few words have no evaluative overtones, "plant" is a primarily descriptive term. "Weed", in contrast, has essentially the same descriptive meaning as "plant", but a negative evaluative meaning, as well. A weed is a plant of which we disapprove.
Loaded language is not inherently fallacious, otherwise most poetry would commit this fallacy. However, it is often a logical boobytrap, which may cause one to leap to an unwarranted evaluative conclusion. The fallacy is committed either when an arguer attempts to use loaded words in place of an argument, or when an arguee makes an evaluation based on the colorful language in which an argument is clothed, rather than on the merits of the argument itself.
Loaded language is a subfallacy of Begging the Question, because to use loaded language fallaciously is to assume an evaluation that has not been proved, thereby failing to fulfill the burden of proof. For this reason, Jeremy Bentham dubbed this fallacy "Question-Begging Epithets". ...
#26. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#23)
how many gallons of "chemtrail" substance, whatever that substance is supposed to be, would be required to leave a visible "chemtrail" a hundred miles long...?
#27. To: Original_Intent (#25)
BULLSHIT!
#28. To: groundresonance, wudidiz, randge, FormerLurker (#27)
#29. To: groundresonance, Original_Intent (#24)
are you a professional pilot operating aircraft at altitudes at which contrails can form?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#30. To: groundresonance (#24)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#31. To: FormerLurker (#29)
#32. To: Original_Intent (#28)
(Edited)
Photographs are evidence.
#33. To: FormerLurker (#30)
Perhaps to you this is normal air traffic...
#34. To: groundresonance (#24)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#35. To: FormerLurker (#30)
#36. To: groundresonance (#33)
perhaps you've never been in a holding pattern at altitude to conserve fuel before you commenced your approach.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#37. To: FormerLurker (#34)
#38. To: FormerLurker (#36)
Planes don't fly high enough in a holding pattern to leave contrails, for one.
#39. To: Original_Intent (#31)
Under no conditions do they form from the ailerons.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#40. To: groundresonance (#38)
are you a professional pilot?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#41. To: groundresonance (#32)
Photographs are evidence.
#42. To: groundresonance (#37)
rainbows are evidence that god was doing "chemtrails" thousands of years ago, huh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#43. To: FormerLurker (#39)
Some people wouldn't believe it if you actually flew them close enough to the sprayer
#44. To: Original_Intent (#41)
#45. To: FormerLurker, groundresonance, wudidiz, randge, all (#40)
are you a professional pilot?
#46. To: groundresonance, Original_Intent (#32)
you've been unable to explain how a 747 loaded to the gills is unable to produce a "chemtrail" of retardant that's longer than five miles.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#47. To: groundresonance, all (#38)
wiki -
* From 6,001 to 14,000 ft (4,300 m) MSL: 230 kn (426 km/h; 265 mph)
* Above 14000 ft MSL: 265 kn (491 km/h; 305 mph)
* 14000 ft to 20000 ft: 240kts
* 20000 ft to 34000 ft: 265kts
* Above 34000 ft: M0.83
#48. To: groundresonance, wudidiz, randge, FormerLurker (#44)
here's a question for the two of you...
#49. To: groundresonance (#43)
are we to assume that you have flown close enough to the sprayer to see it first hand?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#50. To: FormerLurker (#46)
(Edited)
you've been unable to explain how a 747 loaded to the gills is unable to produce a "chemtrail" of retardant that's longer than five miles.
#51. To: FormerLurker (#49)
somewhere towards the rear of the craft
#52. To: FormerLurker, groundresonance, wudidiz, randge, all (#49)
#53. To: Original_Intent (#52)
Perhaps our shill can explain why a little tiny crop dusting plane can lay down multiple rows of chemicals from that itty bitty plane which is much smaller than a "747"?
#54. To: Original_Intent (#52)
Perhaps our shill...
#55. To: groundresonance (#50)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#56. To: Original_Intent (#52)
Based on the reasoning he is trying to imply that's impossible. You need a 747 to dust crops. LOL!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#57. To: buckeroo (#54)
#58. To: FormerLurker (#55)
an aerosol or fog being released at a MUCH lower flow rate.
#59. To: Original_Intent (#52)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#60. To: groundresonance (#58)
so such a miniscule amount of spray would create such a massive trail that it would be visible from 40,000 feet.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#61. To: FormerLurker (#56)
Based on the reasoning he is trying to imply that's impossible. You need a 747 to dust crops. LOL!
#62. To: FormerLurker (#59)
(Edited)
how it reacts to air and/or water vapor.
#63. To: Original_Intent (#57)
Do you have anything intelligent to bring to the table?
#64. To: groundresonance (#58)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#65. To: FormerLurker (#59)
One other aspect that is not being considered is the chemical properties of the mist or fog being delivered, and how it reacts to air and/or water vapor.
#66. To: FormerLurker (#64)
#67. To: groundresonance (#62)
how much water vapor, from burning fuel, is a 747 producing per second?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#68. To: Original_Intent (#65)
we do not really know the composition of the formula,
#69. To: Original_Intent (#52)
You need a 747 to dust crops. LOL!
Lord Acton
#70. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#62)
how it reacts to air and/or water vapor.
#71. To: FormerLurker (#67)
#72. To: groundresonance (#66)
please tell us how much water vapor is produced in one hour from the fuel burned by a 747.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: FormerLurker (#72)
barium have been found in dust
#74. To: groundresonance (#71)
how much water vapor, from burning fuel, is a 747 producing per second?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#75. To: groundresonance (#73)
if the winds aloft are 100 mph, and the "chemtrails" are sprayed at an altitude of 30,000 feet, where will the "chemtrail" residue wind up?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: James Deffenbach (#69)
#77. To: groundresonance (#73)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: FormerLurker (#74)
(Edited)
#79. To: FormerLurker, groundresonance (#72)
I want some calculus and actual physics, not some BS about fire fighting craft dumping dry chemicals on fires.
#80. To: groundresonance (#78)
at what rate does water vapor come out of the exhaust of a 747?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#81. To: Original_Intent (#79)
You're asking a shill to actually produce evidence?
#82. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#78)
at what rate does water vapor come out of the exhaust of a 747?
#83. To: groundresonance (#78)
the amount of water exhausted by a turbine engine is determined by the chemical reaction of combustion.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#84. To: Original_Intent (#79)
And calculations requiring higher math?
#85. To: Original_Intent (#82)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#86. To: FormerLurker (#80)
at what rate does water vapor come out of the exhaust of a 747?
#87. To: FormerLurker (#80)
.. but to MOST people with any degree of intelligence, you [groundresonance]are asking questions such as "if a plane crashes on the US/Canadian border, where do you bury the survivors"...
#88. To: groundresonance (#84)
why has no one bothered to do that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#89. To: buckeroo (#87)
You are the first person to bring that sort of stuff up. What happened to you? Can't reasonably stay on the thread track?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: Original_Intent (#86)
(Edited)
#91. To: FormerLurker (#85)
(Edited)
It's like I said, he's asking questions such as "if an elephant farts, which direction will it travel?", or "where do you bury the survivors if a plane crashes on an international border"...
#92. To: FormerLurker (#89)
Ever hear of the term "analogy" buck?
#93. To: FormerLurker (#88)
FAA regulations for one. For two, try getting too close to a military aircraft on an intercept path and see what happens
#94. To: groundresonance (#84)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#95. To: FormerLurker (#89)
You are the first person to bring that sort of stuff up. What happened to you? Can't reasonably stay on the thread track?
#96. To: groundresonance (#93)
if contrails last for hours, and the military jets are going 500 or 600 miles per hour, how long will it take them to get out of your way as you're collecting samples?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#97. To: FormerLurker (#94)
Have you ever seen fog machines at concerts?
#98. To: buckeroo (#92)
You are clearly losing momentum on this thread.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#99. To: Original_Intent (#97)
Have you ever seen a "Fog Machine" on a thread?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: FormerLurker (#99)
#101. To: FormerLurker (#94)
(Edited)
That the combustion DOES produce water does not relate to the ACTUAL amount of water in jet exhaust.
#102. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#101)
Kiss my ___.
#103. To: groundresonance (#101)
please fill in the blank.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#104. To: FormerLurker (#75)
If you have a jet engine up your ass, and you fart, which direction will the fart go, East, West, North, or South?
Lord Acton
#105. To: James Deffenbach (#104)
LOL!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: FormerLurker (#103)
we don't even know if the chemtrails contain water in the first place.
#107. To: FormerLurker (#98)
#108. To: groundresonance (#106)
#109. To: FormerLurker (#105)
Lord Acton
#110. To: RickyJ (#108)
(Edited)
seems kind of nuts to me though
#111. To: groundresonance (#106)
if you dont know how much water is produced by burning jet fuel, you're not qualified to discuss contrails or "chemtrails".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: groundresonance (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#113. To: FormerLurker (#111)
Do you need to be a nuclear physicist to know that the Sun produces light
#114. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#106)
we don't even know if the chemtrails contain water in the first place.
#115. To: groundresonance (#113)
(Edited)
how can you expect to make a valid judgment of what causes contrails
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#116. To: FormerLurker (#111)
Do you need to be a nuclear physicist to know that the Sun produces light,
#117. To: Original_Intent (#114)
(Edited)
The Chemtrails exist
#118. To: groundresonance (#117)
they exist at low altitudes, and they are used in fire suppression efforts, pest control and fertilizing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#119. To: FormerLurker (#115)
Are you trying to say
#120. To: groundresonance (#110)
#121. To: groundresonance (#117)
they exist at extremely low altitudes, and they are used in fire suppression efforts, pest control and fertilizing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#122. To: RickyJ (#120)
is broke
#123. To: groundresonance (#110)
combustion produces water vapor, and unless it's cold enough, the water vapor doesnt condense to form water.
#124. To: groundresonance (#119)
i am saying that contrails have existed since the time aircraft have flown high enough to reach conditions that produce contrails.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#125. To: buckeroo (#116)
It is water and nothing more beyond some chemical exhaust with a some oil and jet fuel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#126. To: FormerLurker (#124)
I am saying that I have observed CONTRAILS since I was a young child
#127. To: buckeroo, groundresonance (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#128. To: FormerLurker (#125)
regular contrails don't PRODUCE clouds, whereas the CHEMTRAILS often do
#129. To: groundresonance (#126)
(Edited)
and we're still using the same old engines on the same old airplanes that were being used when you were a child.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#130. To: groundresonance (#128)
but you cant do it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#131. To: FormerLurker (#129)
#132. To: groundresonance (#128)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#133. To: All (#123)
#134. To: groundresonance (#131)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#135. To: RickyJ (#133)
H2O is indeed produced from the combustion of hydrocarbons
#136. To: FormerLurker, Original Intent (#130)
A reasonable person would say otherwise, and it's apparent that you are not a reasonable person.
#137. To: groundresonance (#131)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#138. To: buckeroo (#136)
As OI puts his position: ...The Shadow Government....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#139. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker (#135)
not only that, but a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet...
#140. To: groundresonance, RickyJ, burckeroo (#135)
not only that, but a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#141. To: buckeroo (#139)
(Edited)
a gallon of water, when it's vaporized, occupies thousands of cubic feet...
#142. To: FormerLurker (#137)
You know, the more you argue talking points, the more you make it clear you are not posting because you truly believe what you post, but are simply posting standard talking (aka propaganda) points.
#143. To: groundresonance (#141)
you just cant keep a secret, can you?
#144. To: FormerLurker (#140)
didn't you say it would take a 747 with tons of it to cause a 5 mile trail?
#145. To: FormerLurker (#140)
a 5 mile trail?
#146. To: groundresonance, Original_Intent FormerLurker, wudidiz, randge, all (#135)
H2O is indeed produced from the combustion of hydrocarbons
#147. To: groundresonance (#144)
you might oughta ask a firefighter who's been knocked flat by a retardant drop if retardant is vapor.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#148. To: FormerLurker (#147)
earlier you were equating contrails and chemtrails with retardant drops.
#149. To: FormerLurker (#147)
(Edited)
#150. To: FormerLurker (#147)
#151. To: buckeroo (#145)
Review your physics, man! In space, there is volume w-l-h. It is three dimensional in scope.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#152. To: groundresonance (#150)
(Edited)
just out of curiosity... what is the purpose of your supposed "chemtrails"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#153. To: groundresonance (#148)
i was pointing out that a fully loaded 747 could only haul enough retardant to make a swath five miles long, let alone haul enough... whatever... to produce hours of "chemtrails".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#154. To: FormerLurker (#151)
a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel
How Much Water In Gallons Per Cubic Foot Of Air At 74 Degrees F And 40% Relative Humidity?
#155. To: FormerLurker (#152)
weather modification
#156. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#149)
of course, it's way too simple to acknowledge the fact that your "chemtrails" are contrails, formed by water, which is produced by burning the tons of fuel carried by the aircraft.
#157. To: groundresonance (#154)
a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#158. To: FormerLurker (#157)
#159. To: groundresonance (#155)
please post evidence of increased mortality under high density "chemtrail" traffic areas.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#160. To: FormerLurker (#157)
is OVER a 100% conversion of kerosene to water.
#161. To: FormerLurker (#159)
(Edited)
chemtrail illness
#162. To: groundresonance (#158)
what's the minimum cubic feet necessary in a contrail to make it visible from the ground?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#163. To: groundresonance (#154)
a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel
#164. To: FormerLurker (#162)
#165. To: groundresonance (#161)
i repeat my request: please post evidence of increased mortality under areas of high "chemtrail" traffic, please post results of postmortems blaming those deaths on substances found in "chemtrails".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#166. To: Original_Intent (#163)
50,000 sounds like a big number, and I won't even bother to dispute
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#167. To: FormerLurker (#165)
#168. To: groundresonance (#164)
assume an airplane is visible from the ground... how many cubic feet are in that airplane?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#169. To: groundresonance (#167)
in other words, you are unable to post evidence of increased mortality figures caused by chemtrails.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#170. To: FormerLurker (#166)
(Edited)
#171. To: groundresonance (#164)
if the airplane is visible, and it's producing contrails of equal or greater cubiic feet, we have to assume the contrail will be visible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#172. To: groundresonance (#170)
how much does a gallon of gasoline weigh? ...say 7 pounds.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#173. To: FormerLurker (#171)
#174. To: groundresonance (#170)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#175. To: groundresonance (#173)
if an airplane occupies thousands of cubic feet, and is visible from the ground, then, if the airplane is producing a contrail that occupies thousands of cubic feet every second, it's likely that contrail will be visible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#176. To: FormerLurker (#172)
(Edited)
you're saying you can get more water from a gallon of gas
#177. To: groundresonance (#176)
i said you got 19 pounds of co2, not water, from burning 7 pounds of gasoline.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#178. To: FormerLurker (#177)
You said you get 50,000 gallons of water from 48,445 gallons of kerosene, don't lie.
#179. To: groundresonance (#154)
a 747 only holds 48,445 gallons of fuel
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#180. To: FormerLurker (#179)
#181. To: groundresonance (#178)
kerosene produces more water than gasoline when it burns, not much, but some.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#182. To: groundresonance (#180)
are you saying that you cant read?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#183. To: FormerLurker (#181)
So you're saying I can get more water from a glass of kerosene than I can from a glass of water, eh?
#184. To: FormerLurker (#182)
are you saying that you cant read?
"Beeeautiful Brown Eyes
Beautiful Brown Eyes ..."
#185. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#183)
So you're saying I can get more water from a glass of kerosene than I can from a glass of water, eh?
#186. To: groundresonance (#180)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#187. To: Original_Intent (#185)
(Edited)
And the formula for that chemical equation is?
#188. To: FormerLurker, gruntresonance (#186)
#189. To: groundresonance (#187)
C12H26:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#190. To: FormerLurker (#186)
is barely enough fuel capacity on a 747 to fly 1000 miles
#191. To: FormerLurker (#189)
(Edited)
Not even a good cut and paste job, it's not even a valid equation with all the HTML remnants you have in there.
Today kerosene is mainly used in fuel for jet engines (more technically Avtur, Jet A, Jet A-1, Jet B, JP-4, JP-5, JP-7 or JP-8). One form of the fuel known as RP-1 is burned with liquid oxygen as rocket fuel. These fuel grade kerosenes meet specifications for smoke points and freeze points.
#192. To: groundresonance (#190)
if a 747 holds 48,000 gallons, and it burns a gallon a second (meanwhile, producing a gallon of water each second), that 747 will have enough fuel to fly 13 hours.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: FormerLurker (#192)
#194. To: groundresonance (#187)
(Edited)
C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ
#195. To: Original_Intent (#194)
(Edited)
being greater than unity.
#196. To: FormerLurker (#189)
You do realize the result of the equation is in terms of energy (Joules, or kilo Joules to be specific), not gallons or pounds, right?
#197. To: groundresonance (#195)
#198. To: Original_Intent (#197)
(Edited)
#199. To: Original_Intent (#197)
(Edited)
#200. To: groundresonance (#191)
C12H26(l) + 37/2 O2(g) [4; 12 CO2(g) + 13 H2O(g); g0;HÚ = -7513 kJ
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#201. To: groundresonance (#199)
but really, the operative thing here
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: FormerLurker (#201)
the operative thing here is that not enough water is produced from the total fuel capacity of a 747 to fly a little over 1000 miles if your claims on contrail density are correct.
#203. To: groundresonance (#199)
neat how that works, huh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#204. To: FormerLurker (#201)
#205. To: FormerLurker (#203)
is UNKNOWN what the CHEMTRAILS consist of
#206. To: groundresonance (#202)
i will explain one more time: the fuel aboard the aircraft combines, during combustion, with air in the atmosphere to produce more mass, after combustion, than is carried on the airplane.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#207. To: FormerLurker (#203)
#208. To: groundresonance (#205)
we're making headway.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#209. To: groundresonance (#207)
why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#210. To: FormerLurker (#206)
your claims don't add up
#211. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz, formerlurker (#13)
Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored:
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#212. To: FormerLurker (#209)
(Edited)
why hasnt someone chartered a jet to go up and sample those supposed "chemtrails"?
#213. To: Artisan (#211)
(Edited)
vomit colorored tic-tac-toe grids in the skies across murika is not normal
#214. To: groundresonance (#199)
but really, the operative thing here is the fact that the water is expelled as water vapor, which spreads out into thousands of cubic feet as it's expelled into the atmosphere, where it condenses and freezes to form "condensation trails", aka "contrails".
#215. To: Artisan, wudidiz, formerlurker (#211)
Here is a website where the phenomena is thoroughly documented and explored:
#216. To: groundresonance (#212)
in other words, you cant explain why
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#217. To: Original_Intent (#214)
a specified altitude and temperature
#218. To: groundresonance (#217)
#219. To: groundresonance (#210)
what's so hard to understand about all that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: Original_Intent (#218)
I'll post whatever I damn well please
#221. To: FormerLurker (#219)
neither you nor I have any idea what those chemtrails TRULY consist of.
#222. To: Original_Intent (#215)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#223. To: groundresonance (#212)
in other words, you cant explain why, of the thousands of bizjets available, nobody cares enough about "chemtrails" rent a jet and go up and take a sample.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#224. To: Original_Intent (#218)
(Edited)
#225. To: groundresonance (#221)
maybe we could do a little hacking at this problem with occam's razor
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#226. To: groundresonance (#224)
you refuse to understand the chemistry involved, you cant point to increased mortality rates, you dont know what the "chemtrails" are made of, you cant explain their purpose.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#227. To: FormerLurker (#225)
HAVE seen REGULAR jets leaving CONTRAILS in the same sky as those leaving CHEMTRAILS
#228. To: groundresonance (#224)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#229. To: groundresonance (#227)
you are an unreliable witness
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#230. To: FormerLurker (#229)
(Edited)
As are you, especially since you refuse to acknowledge the simple fact that CHEMTRAILS did NOT exist prior to the 1990's. As I said, find me ANY picture from before that time which shows contrail formations similar to that seen today in CHEMTRAIL formations.
#231. To: FormerLurker (#226)
#232. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, ground resonance, buckeroo, all (#151)
Did or did not groundresonance state the following?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#233. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, buckeroo, all (#231)
(Edited)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#234. To: Rotara (#233)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#235. To: wudidiz (#233)
(Edited)
#236. To: groundresonance (#235)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#237. To: wudidiz (#236)
Why should I?
#238. To: groundresonance (#237)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#239. To: wudidiz (#238)
what if I don't?
#240. To: groundresonance (#239)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#241. To: wudidiz (#240)
#242. To: groundresonance (#241)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#243. To: groundresonance (#241)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#244. To: groundresonance (#241)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#245. To: wudidiz (#242)
#246. To: groundresonance (#241)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#247. To: groundresonance (#245)
of the 85 or 90 thousands flights per day in america, how many of them are equipped with this "Powder Contrail Generation" device?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#248. To: groundresonance (#245)
what are they spreading with this device?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#249. To: wudidiz (#246)
#250. To: wudidiz (#248)
patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/n...4,686,605&RS=PN/4,686,605
#251. To: groundresonance (#249)
If you find one that isn’t classified let me know.
1338343 – April 27, 1920 – Process And Apparatus For The Production of Intense Artificial Clouds, Fogs, or Mists
1619183 – March 1, 1927 – Process of Producing Smoke Clouds From Moving Aircraft
1631753 – June 7, 1927 – Electric Heater – Referenced in 3990987
1665267 – April 10, 1928 – Process of Producing Artificial Fogs
1892132 – December 27, 1932 – Atomizing Attachment For Airplane Engine Exhausts
1928963 – October 3, 1933 – Electrical System And Method
1957075 – May 1, 1934 – Airplane Spray Equipment
2097581 – November 2, 1937 – Electric Stream Generator – Referenced in 3990987
2476171 – July 18, 1945 – Smoke Screen Generator
2480967 – September 6, 1949 – Aerial Discharge Device
2550324 – April 24, 1951 – Process For Controlling Weather
2510867 – October 9, 1951 – Method of Crystal Formation and Precipitation
2582678 – June 15, 1952 – Material Disseminating Apparatus For Airplanes
2591988 – April 8, 1952 – Production of TiO2 Pigments – Referenced in 3899144
2614083 – October 14, 1952 – Metal Chloride Screening Smoke Mixture
2633455 – March 31, 1953 – Smoke Generator
2721495 – October 25, 1955 – Method And Apparatus For Detecting Minute Crystal Forming Particles Suspended in a Gaseous Atmosphere
2730402 – January 10, 1956 – Controllable Dispersal Device
2801322 – July 30, 1957 – Decomposition Chamber for Monopropellant Fuel – Referenced in 3990987
2881335 – April 7, 1959 – Generation of Electrical Fields
2908442 – October 13, 1959 – Method For Dispersing Natural Atmospheric Fogs And Clouds
2986360 – May 30, 1962 – Aerial Insecticide Dusting Device
2963975 – December 13, 1960 – Cloud Seeding Carbon Dioxide Bullet
3126155 – March 24, 1964 – Silver Iodide Cloud Seeding Generator – Referenced in 3990987
3131131 – April 28, 1964 – Electrostatic Mixing in Microbial Conversions
3174150 – March 16, 1965 – Self-Focusing Antenna System
3234357 – February 8, 1966 – Electrically Heated Smoke Producing Device
3274035 – September 20, 1966 – Metallic Composition For Production of Hydroscopic Smoke
3300721 – January 24, 1967 – Means For Communication Through a Layer of Ionized Gases
3313487 – April 11, 1967 – Cloud Seeding Apparatus
3338476 – August 29, 1967 – Heating Device For Use With Aerosol Containers – Referenced in 3990987
3410489 – November 12, 1968 – Automatically Adjustable Airfoil Spray System With Pump
3432208 – November 7, 1967 – Fluidized Particle Dispenser
3441214 – April 29, 1969 – Method And Apparatus For Seeding Clouds
3445844 – May 20, 1969 – Trapped Electromagnetic Radiation Communications System
3456880 – July 22, 1969 – Method Of Producing Precipitation From The Atmosphere
3518670 June 30, 1970 – Artificial Ion Cloud
3534906 – October 20, 1970 – Control of Atmospheric Particles
3545677 – December 8, 1970 – Method of Cloud Seeding
3564253 – February 16, 1971 – System And Method For Irradiation Of Planet Surface Areas
3601312 – August 24, 1971 – Methods of Increasing The Likelihood oF Precipatation By The Artificial Introduction Of Sea Water Vapor Into The Atmosphere Winward Of An Air Lift Region
3608810 – September 28, 1971 – Methods of Treating Atmospheric Conditions
3608820 – September 20, 1971 – Treatment of Atmospheric Conditions by Intermittent Dispensing of Materials Therein
3613992 – October 19, 1971 – Weather Modification Method
3630950 – December 28, 1971 – Combustible Compositions For Generating Aerosols, Particularly Suitable For Cloud Modification And Weather Control And Aerosolization Process
USRE29142 – This patent is a reissue of patent US3630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
3659785 – December 8, 1971 – Weather Modification Utilizing Microencapsulated Material
3666176 – March 3, 1972 – Solar Temperature Inversion Device
3722183 – March 27, 1973 – Device For Clearing Impurities From The Atmosphere
3769107 – October 30, 1973 – Pyrotechnic Composition For Generating Lead Based Smoke
3784099 – January 8, 1974 – Air Pollution Control Method
3785557 – January 15, 1974 – Cloud Seeding System
3795626 – March 5, 1974 – Weather Modification Process
3808595 – April 30, 1974 – Chaff Dispensing System
3813875 – June 4, 1974 – Rocket Having Barium Release System to Create Ion Clouds In The Upper Atmopsphere
3835059 – September 10, 1974 – Methods of Generating Ice Nuclei Smoke Particles For Weather Modification And Apparatus Therefore
3877642 – April 15, 1975 – Freezing Nucleant
3882393 – May 6, 1975 – Communications System Utilizing Modulation of The Characteristic Polarization of The Ionosphere
3896993 – July 29, 1975 – Process For Local Modification of Fog And Clouds For Triggering Their Precipitation And For Hindering The Development of Hail Producing Clouds
3899129 – August 12, 1975 – Apparatus for generating ice nuclei smoke particles for weather modification
3899144 – August 12, 1975 – Powder contrail generation
3940059 – February 24, 1976 – Method For Fog Dispersion
3940060 – February 24, 1976 – Vortex Ring Generator
3990987 – November 9, 1976 – Smoke generator
3994437 – November 30, 1976 – Broadcast dissemination of trace quantities of biologically active chemicals
4042196 – August 16, 1977 – Method and apparatus for triggering a substantial change in earth characteristics and measuring earth changes
RE29,142 – February 22, 1977 – Reissue of: 03630950 – Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process
4035726 – July 12, 1977 – Method of controlling and/or improving high-latitude and other communications or radio wave surveillance systems by partial control of radio wave et al
4096005 – June 20, 1978 – Pyrotechnic Cloud Seeding Composition
4129252 – December 12, 1978 – Method and apparatus for production of seeding materials
4141274 – February 27, 1979 – Weather modification automatic cartridge dispenser
4167008 – September 4, 1979 – Fluid bed chaff dispenser
4362271 – December 7, 1982 – Procedure for the artificial modification of atmospheric precipitation as well as compounds with a dimethyl sulfoxide base for use in carrying out said procedure
4402480 – September 6, 1983 – Atmosphere modification satellite
4412654 – November 1, 1983 – Laminar microjet atomizer and method of aerial spraying of liquids
4415265 – November 15, 1983 – Method and apparatus for aerosol particle absorption spectroscopy
4470544 – September 11, 1984 – Method of and Means for weather modification
4475927 – October 9, 1984 – Bipolar Fog Abatement System
4600147 – July 15, 1986 – Liquid propane generator for cloud seeding apparatus
4633714 – January 6, 1987 – Aerosol particle charge and size analyzer
4653690 – March 31, 1987 – Method of producing cumulus clouds
4684063 – August 4, 1987 – Particulates generation and removal
4686605 – August 11, 1987 – Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth’s atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere
4704942 – November 10, 1987 – Charged Aerosol
4712155 – December 8, 1987 – Method and apparatus for creating an artificial electron cyclotron heating region of plasma
4744919 – May 17, 1988 – Method of dispersing particulate aerosol tracer
4766725 – August 30, 1988 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
4829838 – May 16, 1989 – Method and apparatus for the measurement of the size of particles entrained in a gas
4873928 – October 17, 1989 – Nuclear-sized explosions without radiation
4948257 – August 14, 1990 – Laser optical measuring device and method for stabilizing fringe pattern spacing
4948050 – August 14, 1990 – Liquid atomizing apparatus for aerial spraying
4999637 – March 12, 1991 – Creation of artificial ionization clouds above the earth
5003186 – March 26, 1991 – Stratospheric Welsbach seeding for reduction of global warming
5005355 – April 9, 1991 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
5038664 – August 13, 1991 – Method for producing a shell of relativistic particles at an altitude above the earths surface
5041760 – August 20, 1991 – Method and apparatus for generating and utilizing a compound plasma configuration
5056357 – October 15, 1991- Acoustic method for measuring properties of a mobile medium
5059909 – October 22, 1991 – Determination of particle size and electrical charge
5104069 – April 14, 1992 – Apparatus and method for ejecting matter from an aircraft
5110502 – May 5, 1992 – Method of suppressing formation of contrails and solution therefor
5156802 – October 20, 1992 – Inspection of fuel particles with acoustics
5174498 – December 29, 1992 – Cloud Seeding
5148173 – September 15, 1992 – Millimeter wave screening cloud and method
5245290 – September 14, 1993 – Device for determining the size and charge of colloidal particles by measuring electroacoustic effect
5296910 – March 22, 1994 – Method and apparatus for particle analysis
5327222 – July 5, 1994 – Displacement information detecting apparatus
5357865 – October 25, 1994 – Method of cloud seeding
5360162 – November 1, 1994 – Method and composition for precipitation of atmospheric water
5383024 – January 17, 1995 – Optical wet steam monitor
5425413 – June 20, 1995 – Method to hinder the formation and to break-up overhead atmospheric inversions, enhance ground level air circulation and improve urban air quality
5434667 – July 18, 1995 – Characterization of particles by modulated dynamic light scattering
5441200 – August 15, 1995 – Tropical cyclone disruption
5556029 – September 17, 1996 – Method of hydrometeor dissipation (clouds)
5628455 – May 13, 1997 – Method and apparatus for modification of supercooled fog
5631414 – May 20, 1997 – Method and device for remote diagnostics of ocean-atmosphere system state
5639441 – June 17, 1997 – Methods for fine particle formation
5762298 – June 9, 1998 – Use of artificial satellites in earth orbits adaptively to modify the effect that solar radiation would otherwise have on earth’s weather
5912396 – June 15, 1999 – System and method for remediation of selected atmospheric conditions
5922976 – July 13, 1999 – Method of measuring aerosol particles using automated mobility-classified aerosol detector
5949001 – September 7, 1999 – Method for aerodynamic particle size analysis
6025402 – February 15, 2000 – Chemical composition for effectuating a reduction of visibility obscuration, and a detoxifixation of fumes and chemical fogs in spaces of fire origin
6030506 – February 29, 2000 – Preparation of independently generated highly reactive chemical species
6034073 – March 7, 2000 – Solvent detergent emulsions having antiviral activity
6045089 – April 4, 2000 – Solar-powered airplane
6056203 – May 2, 2000 – Method and apparatus for modifying supercooled clouds
6110590 – August 29, 2000 – Synthetically spun silk nanofibers and a process for making the same
6263744 – July 24, 2001 – Automated mobility-classified-aerosol detector
6281972 – August 28, 2001 – Method and apparatus for measuring particle-size distribution
6382526 – May 7, 2002 – Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers
6408704 – June 25, 2002 – Aerodynamic particle size analysis method and apparatus
6412416 – July 2, 2002 – Propellant-based aerosol generation devices and method
6520425 – February 18, 2003 – Process and apparatus for the production of nanofibers
6539812 – April 1, 2003 – System for measuring the flow-rate of a gas by means of ultrasound
6553849 – April 29, 2003 – Electrodynamic particle size analyzer
6569393 – May 27, 2003 – Method and device for cleaning the atmosphere
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#252. To: groundresonance (#250)
why are you posting HAARP stuff into a thread about "chemtrails" when HAARP is a ground-based experiment?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#253. To: wudidiz (#251)
#254. To: wudidiz (#252)
#255. To: wudidiz (#252)
You're not actually reading any of the links ARE you?
#256. To: groundresonance (#255)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#257. To: wudidiz (#256)
(Edited)
www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html
#258. To: wudidiz (#256)
#259. To: groundresonance (#258)
The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the USA has rejected offers to analyze chemtrail samples from Dr. Len Horowitz, while in Northern Idaho, and researcher Clifford Carnicom of Santa Fe, NM. But they and concerned citizens in Las Vegas, NV, Mt. Shasta, CA, and Eastern Arkansas, all managed to get independent laboratory analysis done on samples from soil, water, and the air.
The results were similar with all of them and have been reported to compare with other analysis from North American and European locations. Barium, Aluminum Oxide, Titanium, Magnesium, and BannEthylene dibromide (dibromethane) or EDB are the essential elements of the chemtrail.
Aerosol Barium salts were sprayed from planes over Panama, Libya, and during Desert Storm to make people sick and weak. Barium poisoning is worse than lead poisoning. The lungs are affected adversely. Many complaints of colds, flu, even pneumonia occur within a very few days after heavy chemtrail spraying over an area.
Aluminum causes extreme neurological disorders. Dementia, uncontrollable spasms, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's Disease can be caused by long term aluminum exposure. Breathing in those particulates over time is a definite long term hazard.
EDB or dibromethane was banned in the USA years ago from use in all auto and jet fuels. But somehow it is appearing again in samples from chemtrail residue. It is a major component of insecticides, which are nerve poisons. It affects the nervous system especially where breathing is involved. And it is very carcinogenic.
Keep in mind that these are in tiny particulate form, enabling them to be breathed into our lungs as well as settling into soil and water. Concerned citizens in several areas where heavy chemtrailing has occurred have observed a decline in water quality and erosion of plant life. Over the past few years in the USA, lung disorders have leaped from eighth to fourth as a cause of health issue fatalities.
There are even more unusual biological anomalies being discovered in chemtrail residues as well, such as desiccated blood cells which come to life along with bacterial or viral specimens. Clifford Carnicom has research papers on those. If you can handle scientific details, go to his website, which is listed at the end of this article with other URL's.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#260. To: groundresonance (#257)
so all this "chemtrail" business is an attempt to stop global warming.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#261. To: wudidiz (#259)
Clifford Carnicom
#262. To: wudidiz (#260)
#263. To: groundresonance (#261)
sorry, you're gonna have to present evidence, taken directly from the "chemtrails".
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#264. To: wudidiz (#260)
#265. To: groundresonance (#264)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#266. To: groundresonance (#264)
or are they merely one more tool used by fringe propagandists to terrorize, confuse, divide and conquer americans?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#267. To: wudidiz (#263)
(Edited)
I suspect you wouldn't believe the results anyway.
#268. To: wudidiz (#266)
(Edited)
They're all over the planet.
#269. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, Rotara, groundresonance (#267)
This one....
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#270. To: wudidiz (#269)
(Edited)
If he doesn't just have a bad case of the dumb, he's a shill.
#271. To: All (#269)
Pardon my French.
On The Ground 
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#272. To: All (#271)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#273. To: wudidiz (#269)
#274. To: wudidiz (#272)
#275. To: wudidiz (#272)
707s and various other aircraft have their wings taken off and are retrofitted with sprayer apparatus.
#276. To: All (#273)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#277. To: wudidiz (#276)
(Edited)
#278. To: Original_Intent (#277)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#279. To: All (#278)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#280. To: wudidiz (#278)
(Edited)
#281. To: groundresonance (#280)
are you telling me that doctors are too ignorant to spot epidemic barium or aluminum poisoning?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#282. To: wudidiz (#281)
#283. To: groundresonance (#277)
"how would you shift the center of gravity of an airplane on a test flight, other than having tanks plumbed up to pump water back and forth?"
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#284. To: Ferret (#283)
if you are testing a big plane
#285. To: Ferret (#283)
#286. To: groundresonance (#284)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#287. To: groundresonance (#285)
(Edited)
"you ever get hit by a retardant drop?"
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#288. To: Ferret (#286)
(Edited)
WEIGHT AND BALANCE
#289. To: Ferret (#287)
Bell 212 crash into a truck
#290. To: groundresonance (#288)
(Edited)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#291. To: Ferret (#290)
butter bar officers
#292. To: groundresonance (#289)
(Edited)
"lots of iron in the air when a helicopter crashes... or at least, stuff that would feel like iron if it got you at a couple hundred miles an hour."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#293. To: Ferret (#292)
Weyco aviation's pilots
#294. To: groundresonance (#282)
you think all doctors are so corrupt, as a group, that not one of them will come forward to protest "chemtrail" poisoning, supposing for the sake of argument that it existed.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#295. To: wudidiz (#294)
Do you know of one that's come forward to protest?
#296. To: groundresonance (#295)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#297. To: wudidiz (#296)
(Edited)
There is.
#298. To: groundresonance (#297)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#299. To: groundresonance (#293)
(Edited)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#300. To: wudidiz, ground resonance, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, randge, Lod, Artisan, Ferret, all (#232)
Wow, I never expected this thread to get more than a few comments.
#301. To: groundresonance, wudidiz (#297)
There is.
#302. To: Original_Intent (#301)
#303. To: groundresonance (#273)
why are "chemtrails" such a loonytunes operation?
die kill ~~ Me
#304. To: randge, Original_Intent (#302)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#305. To: wudidiz (#304)
(Edited)
I have a seven month old baby and the wife's pregnant again and is perpetually hungry and I have to go to work to make money to buy food. I'm passing the torch to you ;-)
#306. To: randge, wudidiz, all (#302)
#307. To: groundresonance, wudidiz (#305)
I have a seven month old baby and the wife's pregnant again and is perpetually hungry and I have to go to work to make money to buy food. I'm passing the torch to you ;-)
#308. To: Original_Intent (#306)
Make of it as you will, believe the denials and the so-called debunkers and disinformation specialists if you please, but that does not change the reality one whit.
#309. To: randge (#308)
#310. To: Original_Intent (#306)
I trust my own awareness and observational abilities
#311. To: groundresonance (#310)
#312. To: wudidiz, groundresonance, Original Intent (#310)
Life expectancy for Americans, around 49 years in 1900, has increased over the past century to about 76, thanks to improvements in health care, nutrition, and the overall standard of living for most people. Furthermore, demographic projections suggest that life expectancy for men and women who maintain the healthiest lifestyle patterns will continue to increase. In fact, centenarians (persons 100 years of age and older) are the fastest-growing segment of our population.
#313. To: Original_Intent (#309)
(Edited)
42 unique top-ten pages selected from at least 4,129,350 matching results - on Chemtrails.
#314. To: Original_Intent (#307)
Lord Acton
#315. To: groundresonance (#313)
(Edited)
#316. To: Original_Intent (#315)
body of empirical evidence
#317. To: Original_Intent (#315)
#318. To: groundresonance (#305)
what on earth possesses you to continue to impregnate your wife when you believe your children are facing such a dismal future?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#319. To: groundresonance (#305)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#320. To: wudidiz (#318)
(Edited)
Show me where I said my children are facing a dismal future?
#321. To: wudidiz (#319)
(Edited)
Lord Acton
#322. To: James Deffenbach, Original_Intent (#321)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#323. To: wudidiz (#322)
#324. To: wudidiz (#322)
Thanks. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Lord Acton
#325. To: buckeroo (#323)
Lets say there are intentional trace materials/compounds and so forth placed into "chemtrails." What is the reason for it in your opinion?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#326. To: buckeroo, All (#325)
I really don't know...
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#327. To: wudidiz (#326)
I just want it to stop.
#328. To: buckeroo (#312)
So, what on Earth are chem-trails all about beyond just water vapor?
#329. To: wudidiz (#326)
I just want it to stop.
#330. To: James Deffenbach (#321)
Young Sith, the one who goes by the designation groundresonance posts purely for the purposes of agitation and aggravation. Hie thyself off to the setup page and avail thyself of the wondrous clown filter. Posts of said varlet will disappear as if by magick.
#331. To: Original_Intent (#330)
Lord Acton
#332. To: groundresonance (#327)
I just want it to stop.
#333. To: James Deffenbach (#331)
I suspect you have greater tolerance for bs than I have. I am getting too old to read a lot of it.
#334. To: Original_Intent (#330)
(Edited)
disinfo posters
One thing that sticks in my memory was that about 3, maybe 4, years ago a Congresscritter got motivated to include in a bill the requirement that the programs spraying disclose what they were spraying. Oddly the bill was killed and the Congresscritter, I forget which one, clammed up like nobody's business. That was one of those interesting little blips that make you look up and have a "hmmmmmmmmmm" moment.
#335. To: Original_Intent (#333)
#336. To: groundresonance (#334)
#337. To: Original_Intent (#336)
I am not hung up on having to have an "authority" tell me what I think.
#338. To: wudidiz, chemtrail believers (#304)
(Edited)
I remember when the sky was a much clearer color of blue.
die kill ~~ Me
#339. To: groundresonance (#337)
#340. To: PSUSA (#338)
#341. To: Original_Intent (#339)
I don't bother playing Research Librarian for Shills...
#342. To: Original_Intent (#340)
I know what a contrail looks like.
#343. To: Original_Intent (#340)
I know what a contrail looks like.
#344. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, randge, PSUSA, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach (#342)
Can you clearly show the technical differentiation in a couple of pictures or links?
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#345. To: wudidiz (#344)
die kill ~~ Me
#346. To: PSUSA, wudidiz (#345)
It looks like 2 planes at different altitudes. There are different conditions at different altitudes.
#347. To: PSUSA (#345)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#348. To: Original_Intent (#347)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#349. To: wudidiz (#344)
If I showed pictures or videos of the twin towers disintegrating on 9/11 to someone who believes they 'pancaked' due to airplanes hitting them would it make a difference?
#350. To: wudidiz (#344)
If I showed pictures or videos of the twin towers disintegrating on 9/11 to someone who believes they 'pancaked' due to airplanes hitting them would it make a difference?
#351. To: Original_Intent (#349)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#352. To: wudidiz (#347)
Contrails (from condensation) follow the plane only a few lengths behind and dissipate quickly.
die kill ~~ Me
#353. To: wudidiz, PSUSA (#347)
I remember when there were no 'whiteouts'. I remember a time 10 to 20 years ago when the sky was sometimes overcast with cloud cover, but never from chemtrails sprayed by airplanes.
#354. To: PSUSA (#352)
#355. To: wudidiz (#351)
The ability to differentiate between truth and fiction, logic and fallacies and have enough open-mindedness to re-examine one's beliefs based on facts and use critical, independent thinking seems to be both a blessing and a curse at times.
#356. To: PSUSA (#352)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#357. To: Original_Intent (#355)
It's never a curse.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#358. To: buckeroo, wudidiz (#350)
The trigger mechanism or ignition of 9/11 about the twin towers collapse was about jet aircraft pounding into the twin towers. Jet aircraft fuel is very flammable which leads us back into Chemtrails. That same combustion mixture (depending on the aircraft) gets transferred (although, very small trace amounts) into the exhausted water vapor. This leads to the variations you see in the sky.
#359. To: wudidiz (#357)
It's never a curse.
#360. To: Original_Intent, *Black Ops - Psyops* (#358)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#361. To: Original_Intent (#359)
It is just annoying when you bounce off a block of wood. ;-)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#362. To: Original_Intent (#360)
Psyop.
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#363. To: Original_Intent (#358)
So, taking your, unproved, assertion every jet aircraft should produce a contrail at all times and altitudes.
#364. To: wudidiz (#360)
(Edited)
A couple of disinfo sites they're getting their 'proof' pictures from.
#365. To: wudidiz (#362)
Psyop.
#366. To: Original_Intent (#364)
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=MVc9GX5K_As
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uBq97gYB7xo
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Duxr53aFCog
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#367. To: Original_Intent (#365)
Absolutely - we have our very own representatives of the "Department of Truth" here to entertain us. ;-)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#368. To: wudidiz (#366)
“They” have been “experimenting” on us for years which has been exposed and admitted too many times. Whats the big deal? Why are people finding this so hard to understand?
#369. To: wudidiz (#367)
Absolutely - we have our very own representatives of the "Department of Truth" here to entertain us. ;-)
#370. To: Original_Intent (#368)
Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect.
#328. To: buckeroo (#312)
buckeroo: So, what on Earth are chem-trails all about beyond just water vapor?
#371. To: buckeroo (#370)
#372. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#370)
AHHA!
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#373. To: wudidiz, bucket-a-goo, buckeroo (#372)
#374. To: Original_Intent (#371)
Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect.
#315. To: groundresonance (#313) (Edited)
Can you be consistent once in awhile on a single thread and within a few hours of time? Am I asking too much?
#375. To: Original_Intent (#373)
"It has been said, 'time heals all wounds'. I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone." ~ Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy
#376. To: wudidiz (#375)
#377. To: Original_Intent (#376)
#378. To: Original_Intent (#376)
True - but the Joker is getting desperate. LOL!
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
#379. To: wudidiz (#378)
#380. To: buckeroo (#379)
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
#381. To: wudidiz (#366)
How many pictures are there of this phenomenon that should of occurred at least once and been photographed? Answer…ZERO. ALL those aircraft. ALL those missions and we do not have ONE decent photo of what the mainstream considers a perfectly “normal” event?
die kill ~~ Me
#382. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#381)
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
#383. To: wudidiz (#382)
#384. To: wudidiz, all (#382)
My guess... photoshopped WWII 'chemtrails' from modern 'Truth is Lies' disinfo site:
die kill ~~ Me
#385. To: PSUSA, wudidiz (#384)
#386. To: Original_Intent (#383)
And the same occurs with Chemtrails - "the govenment says they don't exist therefore (although it is the government doing it) they don't exist".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#387. To: PSUSA (#384)
(Edited)
"Otherwise you are only looking for an argument for arguments sake."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#388. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent (#384)
The two that you labeled as chemtrails shows B17s as well as higher altitude fighters. Did they spray back then too? Did they put spray tanks on P51s as well?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#389. To: FormerLurker (#388)
(Edited)
I'd like to see an original source of those images, ie. military photo gallery, and not one whose job it is to debunk chemtrails.
die kill ~~ Me
#390. To: FormerLurker (#388)
He was referencing images that YOU posted which portrayed vapor trails that are far different than normal contrails.
die kill ~~ Me
#391. To: PSUSA (#389)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#392. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#386)
What's disturbing is that it'd be understandable if we were talking about the standard brain damaged sheeple, but here we have otherwise intelligent and rational people who dismiss out of hand any notion that such a thing might be true, based upon some misguided notion that the government would tell us if they were poisoning us from the skies..
"Hell, they don't even believe their own "lying eyes" apparently, or totally forget what the skies USED to look like."
"What you see is determined by what you know and when that changes everything changes." ~ James Burke (Not verbatim but that is the gist.)
#393. To: PSUSA (#389)
Here it is for #352: http://contrailscience.com/wp-content/uploads/1454956689_44a09f2d27_o.jpg
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#394. To: FormerLurker (#391)
Ok, so the images might be authentic, but as someone else pointed out they are only showing a narrow angle view of the sky, and don't show a wide angle view of those trails to indicate how long they lasted. Wider angle images from WWII that I've seen do show the trails dissipating as normal.
die kill ~~ Me
#395. To: FormerLurker (#393)
Oh BTW, contrailscience.com appears to be a chemtrail debunking site which exists for that sole purpose.
die kill ~~ Me
#396. To: PSUSA (#394)
Maybe they are, I don't know. But I have not seen the evidence yet. Just people with an agenda that totally ignore evidence that does not fit in with what they want to see.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#397. To: PSUSA (#395)
OK, what do they say there that you disagree with?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#398. To: FormerLurker (#397)
(Edited)
It's obvious that someone devoted a LOT of time and effort in order to debunk chemtrails as much as possible. Now WHY would someone do that, and where do they get their funding?
die kill ~~ Me
#399. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#390)
More bullshit.
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
#400. To: wudidiz (#399)
I do know that the pictures you presented as proof of contrails in WWII are of chemtrails. Why they are there I can only guess. Maybe it was an airshow.
#401. To: wudidiz, all (#399)
I do know that the pictures you presented as proof of contrails in WWII are of chemtrails. Why they are there I can only guess. Maybe it was an airshow.
die kill ~~ Me
#402. To: wudidiz (#399)
I do know that the pictures you presented as proof of contrails in WWII are of chemtrails. Why they are there I can only guess. Maybe it was an airshow.
#403. To: FormerLurker (#396)
The thing is, I only first noticed VERY unusual "contrails" back in the mid 90's, so it wasn't that I was convinced by the Internet evidence,
die kill ~~ Me
#404. To: PSUSA (#401)
And there we have it.
"Yes they [US government] have been experimenting on us for decades. The Chemtrails are just one aspect." -- Original Intent, circa 2010
#405. To: Original_Intent (#402)
#406. To: Original_Intent (#402)
#407. To: buckeroo (#405)
#408. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#406)
#409. To: Original_Intent (#407)
(Edited)
I can back up what I say but just didn't bother for this thread.
you cant post proof of increased mortality rates due to "chemtrails".
#410. To: gruntresonance, groundresonance, wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#409)
#411. To: Original_Intent (#410)
Please post the details and specifics of ANY ongoing Classified (Top Secret or Above) Project.
#412. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent (#408)
Thank you for your support, Buck.
#413. To: Original_Intent (#407)
I can back up what I say but just didn't bother for this thread.
#414. To: buckeroo (#412)
I am committed to make this the largest thread on 4um, ever.
#415. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, SKYDRIFTER, christine (#412)
I am committed to make this the largest thread on 4um, ever.
#416. To: wudidiz (#415)
Here's your competition.
#417. To: buckeroo (#416)
...I wager...
#418. To: Rotara, Mudboy Slim, AKA Stone, buckeroo, all (#412)
"I am committed to make this the largest thread on 4um, ever." ~ buckeroo, Circa today
#419. To: wudidiz (#417)
#420. To: wudidiz (#418)
We're gonna need some help here...
Title: "More MUD!!"
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.cagle.com/working/080403/olle.jpg
Published: Apr 15, 2008
Author: Mudboy Slim
Post Date: 2008-04-15 11:33:52 by Mudboy Slim
Keywords: None
Views: 4039
Comments: 796
#421. To: gruntresonance, groundresonance, wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#411)
Please post the details and specifics of ANY ongoing Classified (Top Secret or Above) Project.
#422. To: Original_Intent (#421)
I can back up what I say but just didn't bother for this thread.
#423. To: groundresonance (#422)
#424. To: Original_Intent (#423)
I have said that I do believe Chemtrails to be a phenomena unique from contrails, and the body of empirical evidence, no matter how hard you try to wiggle, supports that.
#425. To: wudidiz (#404)
(Edited)
And there we have what?
die kill ~~ Me
#426. To: Original_Intent (#423)
I can back up what I say but just didn't bother for this thread.
#427. To: PSUSA (#425)
#428. To: PSUSA (#425)
I guess the alien grays are behind it. Or, that the reptilian shapeshifters are ultimately to blame, I guess, since it is well known (I guess) that the grays are the reptilians servants and have no will of their own, I guess.
#429. To: groundresonance (#426)
die kill ~~ Me
#430. To: Original_Intent, ground resonance (#423)
#431. To: PSUSA (#429)
It's an amazing thing to see, isn't it?
#432. To: wudidiz (#427)
I'm guessing (because I don't know) the pictures were either photoshopped or they're chemtrails.
die kill ~~ Me
#433. To: PSUSA (#432)
or I will get vicious
#434. To: PSUSA (#429)
They say that there is proof, but are ... reluctant... to show the evidence.
#435. To: groundresonance (#434)
die kill ~~ Me
#436. To: wudidiz (#433)
die kill ~~ Me
#437. To: buckeroo (#420)
die kill ~~ Me
#438. To: PSUSA (#436)
#439. To: wudidiz (#418)
We're gonna need some help here...
Title: Video Shot by Pilot Flying Along side several Chemtrail Planes
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 13, 2010
Author: kevin604bc
Post Date: 2010-03-13 16:18:34 by wudidiz
Keywords: None
Views: 1591
Comments: 435
#440. To: wudidiz (#438)
(Edited)
die kill ~~ Me
#441. To: PSUSA (#435)
(Edited)
Both can be full of shit.
#442. To: groundresonance (#441)
the authorities these people appeal to are nutbag sites that routinely manipulate pictures to "prove" their "points"...
die kill ~~ Me
#443. To: PSUSA (#437)
I keep having to ignore that damn thread.
#444. To: PSUSA (#442)
(Edited)
I don't know that they manipulate the pics, but they certainly cherry pick them.
#445. To: buckeroo (#443)
die kill ~~ Me
#446. To: All (#444)
(Edited)
the picture of that goofy sponge-looking thing in the "exhaust"...
#447. To: groundresonance (#444)
(Edited)
article from "depleted cranium"
die kill ~~ Me
#448. To: groundresonance (#446)
#449. To: groundresonance (#444)
(Edited)
the original picture of the boeing test flights, the one with the tanks, has a "hazmat" warning photoshopped into it.
die kill ~~ Me
#450. To: PSUSA (#447)
(Edited)
#451. To: PSUSA (#449)
#452. To: groundresonance (#451)
die kill ~~ Me
#453. To: groundresonance, wudiditz, Original_Intent (#450)
(Edited)
sprayer designation
#454. To: PSUSA (#452)
(Edited)
They will say THAT pic was shopped...
#455. To: buckeroo (#453)
If the CIA wants to spray me with LSD... this is too cool, I can handle it.
#456. To: groundresonance (#455)
#457. To: buckeroo (#456)
Americans have a far longer longevity than ever before in history of any western nation under the Sun.
#458. To: groundresonance (#457)
i dont think that's right
#459. To: buckeroo (#458)
#460. To: groundresonance (#459)
#461. To: buckeroo (#460)
I love the attempt.
#462. To: PSUSA, ground resonance, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#447)
(Edited)
whereas chemtrails stay and spread out into a thin haze across the sky.
in Google images and posted them here.
is that those long trails you see criss-crossing across the sky for hundreds of miles since the
mid '90s are not from condensation from engine exhaust because contrails don't do that.
Ever.
#463. To: wudidiz (#462)
those long trails you see criss-crossing across the sky for hundreds of miles since the mid '90s are not from condensation from engine exhaust because contrails don't do that. Ever.
#464. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, All (#462)
depletedcranium.com/are-these-chemtrail-planes-no/
#465. To: wudidiz, PSUSA (#347)
Contrails (from condensation) follow the plane only a few lengths behind and dissipate quickly. Chemtrails (from sprayed mineral compounds) stay and spread across the sky into a haze.
#466. To: groundresonance (#463)
sorry, but they do...
#467. To: wudidiz (#464)
(Edited)
read through the comments at the bottom of this 'debunking' site.
#468. To: christine, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, all (#465)
#469. To: wudidiz (#462)
I was asked to show pictures of chemtrails equipment so I searched for 'chemtrail equipment' in Google images and posted them here.
#470. To: wudidiz (#468)
obvious observation
#471. To: groundresonance (#461)
well, i'm not gonna argue about it, but i will post one more reference, from the CIA, which puts america pretty far down the list, 49th, to be exact.
Not Found
#472. To: buckeroo (#469)
#473. To: buckeroo (#471)
(Edited)
#474. To: wudidiz (#472)
(Edited)
#475. To: groundresonance (#473)
sorry for the bad url.
#476. To: buckeroo (#475)
Most of those patients in search of the best care, including 38% from Latin America, 35% from the Middle East, 16% from Europe and 7% from Canada, are heading to the United States.
a report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care.
#477. To: groundresonance (#476)
so how many people are traveling for medical care?
#478. To: buckeroo, wudidiz, Jhoffa_, nolu_chan, Fred Mertz, war, Rotara, TLBSHOW, BadJoe, christine (#420)
To be the man, you gotta beat the man...
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#479. To: buckeroo (#477)
"I think you need to review the US Congress..."
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#480. To: buckeroo (#469)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#481. To: buckeroo (#480)
(Edited)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#482. To: Mudboy Slim (#481)
Mudboy Slim and the Syntaurs
Lord Acton
#483. To: James Deffenbach (#482)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#484. To: Mudboy Slim (#483)
Lord Acton
#485. To: James Deffenbach, Rotara (#482)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#486. To: James Deffenbach (#484)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#487. To: Mudboy Slim (#486)
A FAGGOT joke from you, JimmieDee?! I'm disappointed...MUD
Lord Acton
#488. To: All (#481)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#489. To: James Deffenbach (#487)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#490. To: James Deffenbach (#487)
I'm very sorry, JimmieDee...I've apparently WAAAY over-estimted yer intelligence...
STOOOPID, nay, mis- educated, you Publik-Skewl- educated RATS really are...MUD
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#491. To: JimmieDee (#490)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#492. To: All (#491)
Food
Sexual activity
Homeostasis
Air, water, and food are metabolic requirements for survival in all animals, including humans. The intensity of the human sexual instinct is shaped more by sexual competition than maintaining a birth rate adequate to survival of the species.
—Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience!!"
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#493. To: Mudboy Slim (#490)
Sincerely, I DO apologize...I often fergit how STOOOPID, nay, mis- educated, you Publik-Skewl- educated RATS really are...MUD
Lord Acton
#494. To: christine (#465)
(Edited)
Contrails (from condensation) follow the plane only a few lengths behind and dissipate quickly. Chemtrails (from sprayed mineral compounds) stay and spread across the sky into a haze.
die kill ~~ Me
#495. To: wudidiz, christine (#494)
Contrails (from condensation) follow the plane only a few lengths behind and dissipate quickly. Chemtrails (from sprayed mineral compounds) stay and spread across the sky into a haze.
die kill ~~ Me
#496. To: James Deffenbach (#493)
Localities, and Individuals as Prescribed in the U.S. Constitution!!
#497. To: PSUSA (#398)
It costs about $100 per year to put up a website. Once that is paid, it just takes time and effort. You don't need funding. Now, do you have any specific disagreements about the info presented there?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#498. To: PSUSA (#398)
It costs about $100 per year to put up a website.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#499. To: FormerLurker (#498)
die kill ~~ Me
#500. To: FormerLurker (#497)
I'm talking about the amount of research and effort needed to explain away the phenomona, similar to how NIST explained the collapse of the WTC towers as being due to heat and pancaking.
die kill ~~ Me
#501. To: groundresonance (#463)
#502. To: MiracleRose7, gruntresonance, groundresonance, all (#501)
So groundresonance are you saying that you believe there is no cloud seeding going on? Do you not believe that they are spraying chemicals in the air?
#503. To: All (#501)
#504. To: MiracleRose7 (#503)
#505. To: PSUSA (#500)
Now, what exactly did he "explain away" again???
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#506. To: PSUSA (#500)
(Edited)
Now, what exactly did he "explain away" again???
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#507. To: buckeroo, MiracleRose7, wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#504)
#508. To: Original_Intent (#502)
That is exactly what gruntresonace is trying to maintain. That you can't believe your eyes, that the government never has secret programs, that they have never engaged in human experimentation, and that the Easter Bunny is going to hop right in and give him a bunch of candy eggs.
#509. To: FormerLurker, PSUSA, wudidiz, all (#505)
In other words, the flow is as follows;
2. Setup false info and "proof", allow the public to take the bait
3. Setup a site such as contrailscience.com to debunk the info that had been planted, making ANYONE who speaks up about the problematic activity to appear foolish
#510. To: MiracleRose7 (#508)
As I said it is beyond silliness to attempt to claim that there is no such thing going on.
#511. To: Original_Intent (#507)
.... instead of seeding clouds to generate precipitation they seeding something into the atmosphere for an unknown purpose.
#512. To: FormerLurker (#506)
You've been to the site, you don't need to play dumb with me here.
die kill ~~ Me
#513. To: buckeroo (#504)
No one denies cloud seeding. But, when you understand the gist of the thread from top to bottom this action is not at issue.
#514. To: buckeroo (#511)
Etymology:
"Straw man" is one of the best-named fallacies, because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy. Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched.
Exposition:
Judging from my experience, Straw Man is one of the commonest of fallacies. It is endemic in public debates on politics, ethics, and religion.
The Straw Man is a type of Red Herring because the arguer is attempting to refute his opponent's position, and in the context is required to do so, but instead attacks a position—the "straw man"—not held by his opponent. In a Straw Man argument, the arguer argues to a conclusion that denies the "straw man" he has set up, but misses the target. There may be nothing wrong with the argument presented by the arguer when it is taken out of context, that is, it may be a perfectly good argument against the straw man. It is only because the burden of proof is on the arguer to argue against the opponent's position that a Straw Man fallacy is committed. So, the fallacy is not simply the argument, but the entire situation of the argument occurring in such a context.
#515. To: FormerLurker (#505)
Funny thing is, the registration info on contrailscience.com appears to be private, and nobody is listed as a technical contact or anything. Hmmm.
die kill ~~ Me
#516. To: Original_Intent (#514)
OI: .... instead of seeding clouds to generate precipitation they seeding something into the atmosphere for an unknown purpose.
#517. To: Original_Intent (#507)
#518. To: PSUSA (#515)
I'm done with this thread until someone says something serious.
#519. To: PSUSA (#515)
#520. To: MiracleRose7 (#517)
Are you aware that they were discussing spraying sulfur into the air.
#521. To: buckeroo (#518)
#522. To: MiracleRose7 (#517)
Are you aware that they were discussing spraying sulfur into the air. Whether they have begun this or not I do not know. The problem is they are not open about what they are spraying into the air or of the impact it has on humans.
#523. To: MiracleRose7 (#519)
So do you believe that there is cloud seeding going on? If so, what are the chemicals being sprayed in the air and how much? What is the impact on the ground and were can we get the copies of the studies?
die kill ~~ Me
#524. To: MiracleRose7 (#521)
What exactly are you guys disputing?
#525. To: Original_Intent (#507)
You may try to deny it as much as you wish but the evidence is there, and some of us are old enough to remember when it was not so. Thus we can compare the skies of our youth with the skies of today and KNOW there is a difference.
Lord Acton
#526. To: buckeroo (#520)
To: MiracleRose7
#527. To: MiracleRose7 (#508)
I guess groundresonance never read that they use this all the time in Russia to avoid rain during certain parades and other events. Of course, in this article they also point to the fact that the U.S. also does this. As I said it is beyond silliness to attempt to claim that there is no such thing going on.
Lord Acton
#528. To: PSUSA (#523)
#529. To: James Deffenbach (#527)
Hey Rose! Nice to cybersee you as they say. You are right, it is beyond silly but that doesn't stop the true believers from telling us how the government loves us and would never do anything to harm us.
#530. To: Mudboy Slim (#488)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#531. To: MiracleRose7 (#528)
Seeding is spraying chemicals such as Barium and heavy metals into the air is is not?
die kill ~~ Me
#532. To: MiracleRose7 (#529)
Now can you explain how spraying heavy metals in the air is not the same as chemtrails?
Lord Acton
#533. To: Ferret (#530)
If I were a well hidden sniper, one look at her in the context of how others are deferential to her and the unusual choice of uniform would put her in my cross sight.
#534. To: Original_Intent (#533)
"One Shot, One Kill."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#535. To: James Deffenbach (#532)
Chemtrails and contrails are not the same things. To say otherwise is to deny what is very obvious.
#536. To: PSUSA (#531)
#537. To: buckeroo (#535)
State some facts if you have time.
Lord Acton
#538. To: MiracleRose7 (#536)
die kill ~~ Me
#539. To: James Deffenbach (#537)
Fact #1. You are a lush and I don't have to prove anything to you. You can believe the government loves you and doubt what is evident to most people who don't wear blinders ...
Chemtrails and contrails are not the same things. To say otherwise is to deny what is very obvious.
Lets see your critical analysis interpret the difference.
#540. To: PSUSA (#538)
We're talking 2 differnet things ehre.
#541. To: buckeroo, all (#535)
To sit back and make that statement in awe of the phenomena is a testament to your own ignorance. State some facts if you have time.
die kill ~~ Me
#542. To: buckeroo (#539)
You will have to try again when you have some more time.
Lord Acton
#543. To: buckeroo (#539)
#544. To: MiracleRose7 (#543)
Lord Acton
#545. To: PSUSA (#541)
#546. To: PSUSA, Miraclerose7, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, FormerLurker, all (#541)
simply because we call a spade a spade, and can show that chemtrails are bullshit.
#547. To: Original_Intent (#546)
The entire anti-chemtrail/debunker argument relies solely and only upon on the denial of evidence.
die kill ~~ Me
#548. To: MiracleRose7 (#543)
Chemtrails are spraying chemicals into the air. Contrails are a natural condensation that occurs from planes. They are not the same.
#350. To: wudidiz (#344)
If I showed pictures or videos of the twin towers disintegrating on 9/11 to someone who believes they 'pancaked' due to airplanes hitting them would it make a difference?
#549. To: James Deffenbach (#544)
t seems that the naysayers can't tell us why the chemtrails hang on and on while contrails dissipate rather quickly and don't make a hazy mess of the sky. They deny the evidence seen by their own eyes. Willfully blind and you can't help them.
#550. To: MiracleRose7, PSUSA (#545)
The farmers have known about cloud seeding for years or so I have heard.
#551. To: PSUSA (#515)
(Edited)
Appear foolish? It is foolish. How twisted does this have to get?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#552. To: PSUSA (#541)
The silly geese cant even agree what "chemtrails" are for. They are trying to assign a purpose for something that doesn't even exist! How funny is that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#553. To: James Deffenbach, MiracleRose7 (#544)
It seems that the naysayers can't tell us why the chemtrails hang on and on while contrails dissipate rather quickly and don't make a hazy mess of the sky.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#554. To: FormerLurker (#553)
They'll just turn around and claim that it's either perfectly normal, or that it doesn't really happen, roll the dice and see which answer you get.
Lord Acton
#555. To: FormerLurker (#551)
(Edited)
So do you agree with them and believe that 9/11 truthers are all misinformed, blind, and misled, and are all terrorists at heart?
die kill ~~ Me
#556. To: James Deffenbach (#554)
Oh, I am not going to bother much with people who won't believe their own eyes. Life is too short.
Chemtrails and contrails are not the same things. To say otherwise is to deny what is very obvious.
#557. To: buckeroo (#556)
Lord Acton
#558. To: James Deffenbach (#557)
You have a severe comprehension problem don't you?
I just said--you even copied and pasted it--that LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO BOTHER WITH PEOPLE WHO WON'T BELIEVE THEIR OWN EYES. That certainly includes you. Be off with you.
I may get back to you on it someday but if I were you I would not hold my breath and stand on one foot.
#559. To: buckeroo (#558)
Lord Acton
#560. To: James Deffenbach (#559)
No, I am not defensive at all. I don't doubt my own eyes.
#561. To: Original_Intent (#546)
hundreds of thousands of photographs showing the different persisting characteristics of Chemtrails.
#562. To: groundresonance, Original_Intent (#561)
can you look at an airplane passing over and tell, with your "own two eyes", what altitude the airplane is flying at, what the temperature is at that altitude, and what the relative humidity is at that altitude?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#563. To: FormerLurker (#562)
(Edited)
can you look at an airplane passing over and tell, with your "own two eyes", what altitude the airplane is flying at, what the temperature is at that altitude, and what the relative humidity is at that altitude?
#564. To: Original_Intent, PSUSA, Miraclerose7, James Deffenbach, FormerLurker, randge, GreyLmist, christine, all (#546)
evidence
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#565. To: wudidiz (#564)
Does this look like 'condensation'?
#566. To: wudidiz (#564)
(Edited)
#567. To: wudidiz (#564)
#568. To: wudidiz (#564)
#569. To: wudidiz (#564)
Does this look like 'condensation'?
#570. To: wudidiz (#564)
die kill ~~ Me
#571. To: groundresonance, all, chemtrail believers (#568)
die kill ~~ Me
#572. To: PSUSA (#571)
It's the speed of the aircraft.
#573. To: PSUSA, wudidiz (#570)
I took this thread off of ignore. I just couldn't stay away. Like a dog to its vomit...
#574. To: groundresonance (#572)
die kill ~~ Me
#575. To: buckeroo (#573)
This is *ONE* of the finest threads under the Sun.
die kill ~~ Me
#576. To: PSUSA (#571)
The cruising speed of a B17 is 150 mph. www.boeing.com/history/boeing/b17.html
#577. To: groundresonance, buckeroo, all (#576)
die kill ~~ Me
#578. To: PSUSA, groundresonance (#577)
#579. To: PSUSA, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, ground resonance, all (#577)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#580. To: PSUSA (#577)
(Edited)
How much water is released?
#581. To: wudidiz, Formerlurker (#579)
#582. To: buckeroo, Formerlurker (#581)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#583. To: wudidiz (#582)
A plane of any sort doesn't burn enough fuel to put that much water vapor or condensation into the air. Even if it did (though it can't) it would disappear quickly.
#584. To: wudidiz (#579)
See where this is going?
#585. To: randge (#584)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#586. To: All (#585)
Note the short white line. It disappears because it's made of water. 
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#587. To: wudidiz (#585)
#588. To: All (#586)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#589. To: groundresonance (#587)
how bout giving us the altitude, temperature and humidity at those places where the contrails disappeared, so we can plug the numbers into an appleman chart and see if maybe it was too warm or too humid for contrails to form.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#590. To: wudidiz (#588)
(Edited)
#591. To: All (#589)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#592. To: wudidiz (#591)
#593. To: All (#591)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#594. To: randge (#584)
Wonder what keeps them up there??
#595. To: groundresonance, all (#580)
die kill ~~ Me
#596. To: All (#593)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#597. To: All (#596)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#598. To: PSUSA (#595)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#599. To: wudidiz (#596)
die kill ~~ Me
#600. To: All (#598)
Water vapor dissipates and disappears. Quickly.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#601. To: wudidiz (#597)
#602. To: PSUSA (#595)
(Edited)
Using one of the cherry picked pics of "chemtrails" posted here would actually help disprove chemtrails, since the more water vapor visible the more accurate the calculations would be.
#603. To: PSUSA, all (#599)
It's morse code smoke signals from the Draconian reptilian overlords to their underlings in the illuminati.
#604. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, PSUSA, all (#599)
Nonsense.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#605. To: wudidiz (#604)
Appeal to Ridicule
#606. To: All (#604)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#607. To: All (#606)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#608. To: groundresonance (#602)
you cant make any calculations, i dont think, without knowing the temp and humidity... altitude isnt so critical.
die kill ~~ Me
#609. To: wudidiz groundresonance (#606)
Air Traffic Controllers Concerned Over Chemtrails
#610. To: randge (#609)
This bears looking into, no?
#611. To: groundresonance (#610)
#612. To: PSUSA (#608)
Calculations would only be a SWAG
How Much Water In Gallons Per Cubic Foot Of Air At 74 Degrees F And 40% Relative Humidity?
#613. To: wudidiz (#604)
Appeal to Ridicule
#614. To: buckeroo (#613)
Why not appeal to reason?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#615. To: wudidiz (#614)
Chemtrails stay in the sky. Contrails don't.
#616. To: groundresonance (#612)
die kill ~~ Me
#617. To: PSUSA (#616)
Where to go from there? I don't know ;)
#618. To: James Deffenbach (#544)
It seems that the naysayers can't tell us why the chemtrails hang on and on while contrails dissipate rather quickly and don't make a hazy mess of the sky. They deny the evidence seen by their own eyes. Willfully blind and you can't help them.
#619. To: MiracleRose7 (#618)
The bottom line is what is causing them
#620. To: buckeroo (#578)
Did you see post #565 from groundresonance? He introduces the Appleman Chart. You can follow one link here ....
die kill ~~ Me
#621. To: groundresonance, all, all chemtrail believers, wudidiz, buckeroo (#619)
die kill ~~ Me
#622. To: PSUSA (#620)
You know, this topic reminds me of one of the things my mom used to say to me all the time. It was that I had a "one track mind". Once I decided on something, that was it.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#623. To: buckeroo (#615)
Chemtrails stay in the sky. Contrails don't.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#624. To: wudidiz (#622)
You and wadosy/groundresonance both lost this argument before you started.
die kill ~~ Me
#625. To: MiracleRose7, James Deffenbach (#618)
Whatever they are they did not use to be there
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#626. To: MiracleRose7 (#618)
The bottom line is what is causing them and why don't we ALL know. I am sure we would agree on that.
Lord Acton
#627. To: groundresonance (#619)
The bottom line is what is causing them
#628. To: PSUSA (#620)
"You know, this topic reminds me of one of the things my mom used to say to me all the time. It was that I had a "one track mind". Once I decided on something, that was it."
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#629. To: MiracleRose7 (#627)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#630. To: Ferret (#628)
That serves you poorly in how it exacerbates your brutally ignorant and hateful racial bigotry.
die kill ~~ Me
#631. To: James Deffenbach, wudidiz, groundresonance, buckeroo, ALL (#626)
I agree with you. The willfully blind won't but that is their problem.
#632. To: wudidiz (#629)
#633. To: wudidiz (#629)
That and a bunch of other things. Barium, copper magnesium, mercury and more.
die kill ~~ Me
#634. To: MiracleRose7 (#632)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#635. To: Ferret (#628)
(Edited)
die kill ~~ Me
#636. To: MiracleRose7 (#632)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#637. To: MiracleRose7 (#631)
Lord Acton
#638. To: wudidiz (#623)
Chemtrails stay in the sky for a long time. Contrails don't.
#639. To: MiracleRose7 (#631)
Some people just do not want to believe that the government would do ANYTHING that would bring harm to the citizens. Some people desire to believe that the government is generally good. It is a nice romantic notion of an honest, open, and government that actually was for the people, by the people. Unfortunately that government no longer exist.
#640. To: buckeroo (#638)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#641. To: wudidiz (#640)
#642. To: All (#619)
#643. To: buckeroo (#641)
I suppose... what on Earth do you think this means relevant to little plumes of water vapor to larger plumes of water vapor emitted by relative high altitude jets as witnessed from the ground?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#644. To: groundresonance (#642)
#645. To: groundresonance (#642)
Google employee and artist Aaron Koblin uses data from the US Federal Aviation Administration to create maps of air traffic over a 24-hour period
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#646. To: wudidiz (#643)
#647. To: All (#642)
#648. To: All (#647)
(Edited)
#649. To: Original_Intent, Miraclerose7, James Deffenbach, FormerLurker, randge, christine, all (#642)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#650. To: All (#649)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#651. To: wudidiz (#649)
Satellite view of Chemtrails Southeast U.S.:
#652. To: PSUSA (#635)
"Kill dolphins! They're ugly! They foul tuna nets! And I like tuna!"
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#653. To: wudidiz (#650)
(Edited)
The flight paths go from point a to point b.
#654. To: wudidiz (#272)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#655. To: groundresonance (#653)
does the temperature and humidity stay the same everywhere, all the time, at all altitudes?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#656. To: X-15 (#654)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#657. To: PSUSA (#630)
INGREDIENTS: CORN SYRUP, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WATER, CELLULOSE GUM, CARAMEL COLOR, SALT, SODIUM BENZOATE AND SORBIC ACID (PRESERVATIVES), ARTIFICIAL AND NATURAL FLAVORS, SODIUM HEXAMETAPHOSPHATE.
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#658. To: Ferret, PSUSA (#657)
I would switch to a healthier syrup.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#659. To: wudidiz (#655)
(Edited)
the temperature and humidity conveniently change at the end of each chemtrail just so YOU can win this argument
#660. To: groundresonance (#659)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#661. To: groundresonance, all (#659)
looks to me like your problem is this: the only thing you got going for you is an emotional aversion to contrails, and you've convinced yourself that they're "chemtrials".
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#662. To: wudidiz, PSUSA (#658)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#663. To: groundresonance (#659)
#664. To: wudidiz (#660)
"You remind me of yukon."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#665. To: rack42 (#663)
He's a trooper!
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#666. To: wudidiz (#661)
(Edited)
#667. To: Ferret, Original_Intent (#664)
Don't think so; much smarter than Yukon and doesn't show anger and lash out when he is pissed anywhere near the same way.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#668. To: groundresonance (#666)
emotion and bullheadedness, that's all you got.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#669. To: wudidiz (#667)
he ignores proof presented,
#670. To: wudidiz (#668)
And I'm good lookin'!
#671. To: wudidiz, Groundresonance (#667)
(Edited)
"if you could provide one shred of legitimate proof of a "chemtrail" project in progress, it would be different.
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#672. To: groundresonance (#666)
if you could provide one shred of legitimate proof of a "chemtrail" project in progress, it would be different.
#673. To: abraxas (#672)
(Edited)
Several independent sources claim that samples of fallout from the lingering smoke trails and have been independently tested and found to contain ethylene dibromide (EDB).
#674. To: groundresonance (#673)
#675. To: abraxas (#674)
(Edited)
#676. To: Ferret (#671)
Both of you are doing great jobs working your side of the issue. Unfortunately for your advocacy here, he knows where the gray area is buried and is not afraid to dig it up.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#677. To: abraxas, groundresonance (#675)
persistent contrails
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#678. To: groundresonance (#675)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#679. To: Original_Intent, christine, Lod, All (#678)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#680. To: Original_Intent, christine, Lod, All (#679)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#681. To: wudidiz (#678)
#682. To: Original_Intent, christine, Lod, FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, Miracle Rose, Jethro Tull, Rotara, TwentyTwelve, All (#680)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#683. To: groundresonance (#681)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#684. To: wudidiz (#683)
(Edited)
'Persistant contrail' is the governments word for something that is not a contrail.
#685. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, all (#681)
are you saying that contrails cant form at 23,600 feet if the temp is -35 and the humidity is 32%?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#686. To: groundresonance (#684)
so i guess you wont mind if i plot that data from the video, huh?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#687. To: wudidiz (#686)
(Edited)
What video?
#688. To: All (#687)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#689. To: groundresonance (#687)
that video you took down after i told you it was haywire.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#690. To: wudidiz (#688)
(Edited)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#691. To: Ferret (#690)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#692. To: All (#691)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#693. To: wudidiz (#692)
Lord Acton
#694. To: Ferret (#657)
Dude, high fructose corn syrup
die kill ~~ Me
#695. To: Ferret (#690)
Apologies, I really have to be honest.
die kill ~~ Me
#696. To: groundresonance (#666)
sorry, but i'm not the one that posts lies in support of my "chemtrail" theory.
die kill ~~ Me
#697. To: wudidiz (#650)
The flight paths go from point a to point b.
#698. To: PSUSA (#695)
"You have to apologize to be honest?"
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#699. To: wudidiz (#692)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#700. To: Ferret (#698)
die kill ~~ Me
#701. To: wudidiz, PSUSA, all (#688)
What a f**k-show.
#702. To: PSUSA (#694)
"HFCS is a killer, and they only use it because per each can of soda for example, it's like one cent cheaper than cane / beet sugar. It's best avoided. It's probably why so many are obese."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#703. To: Ferret (#690)
The 9-11 shot I agree was caused by explosives.
#704. To: wudidiz (#682)
Definitions
War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
Freedom is Slavery
#705. To: buckeroo (#703)
#706. To: buckeroo (#703)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#707. To: randge (#705)
I find it hard to swallow that whatever burning fuel that was not consumed in the giant fireballs visible outside those buildings was capable of bringing down a quarter million tons of steel in each event.
#708. To: Ferret (#706)
#709. To: Ferret (#706)
You need real explosives like thermite to do that.
die kill ~~ Me
#710. To: PSUSA (#709)
Thermite is not an explosive.
#711. To: buckeroo (#707)
But you do realize, that irrespective of the way the towers came down the initial trigger mechanism was a jet crashing into the various or respective buildings, correct?
#712. To: PSUSA (#709)
(Edited)
"Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an aluminothermic reaction known as a thermite reaction. Most varieties are not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#713. To: buckeroo (#710)
Isn't this one of the more fun threads you have been on? I love it!
die kill ~~ Me
#714. To: PSUSA (#713)
It's certainly lively. But in over 700 posts, we are right where we began.
#715. To: buckeroo (#714)
It doesn't get better than this.
die kill ~~ Me
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