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Title: CONTRAIL vs CHEMTRAIL 101
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Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: truthseeker1922
Post Date: 2010-03-18 15:43:02 by wudidiz
Ping List: *Black Ops - Psyops* Subscribe to *Black Ops - Psyops*
Keywords: None
Views: 1726
Comments: 101
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#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
(Edited)
Your own words prove you are not rational. I am not "too fucking stupid to understand it". I am smart enough to recognize bullshit when I see it, and your posts are bullshit. At least when it comes to this topic. You did not give me science. You did not explain anything. You gave me guesses. YOu gave me faulty conclusions based on those guesses. I tried to give you science by someone that studies the atmosphere for a living and you chose to disregard it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Now, about these "chemtrails". Who is a good neutral and honest source to ask about them? Surely there is someone out there... Let's keep this on topic. Who knows? Maybe you are right. But your attempts at proving it are not exactly awe inspiring. I can tell that I am getting further under your skin. That sometimes happens when a person dares question a fanatic. You need to relax and think before you post. That might help you some.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I think you belong on bozo. You repeat yourself like a broken record, ignore the facts, analysis, and calculations I gave, and make ludicrous and ridiculous claims. I tried to give you science by someone that studies the atmosphere for a living and you chose to disregard it. Bullshit, that character didn't state one scientific fact or offer any analysis, he simply regurgitated things any retard could tell you, such as "jet aircraft sometimes make contrails". It's apparent that you worship anyone who agrees with you, and close your ears, eyes, and mind to anything which proves you wrong. You apparently have ignored the link concerning the NOAA's weather modification projects. It's apparent you don't care about the topic, and are simply here to argue with people. All I can say is, adios Mr. Bozo.
One last thing PSUSA. It would not surprise me in the least if you are a government plant here on 4um. Besides taking the stance that chemtrails don't exist, and anyone who thinks they do is ignorant or worse, you seem to be an agent provocateur in terms of race baiting. Your posts typically are hate orientated and contain a generous sprinkling of the word "nigger", where you apparently think ALL black people are "niggers". Either you're some sort of extreme racist from the likes of StormFront, or you're here to make the forum look bad. Either way, I don't find it worth speaking with you any longer at this point.
You're actually trying to say the larger trail is at a higher altitude than the smaller trail? LOL!!!!!!!! What left that larger trail, an alien mothership from "V"?
Run away! Run Away! You repeat yourself like a broken record, ignore the facts, analysis, and calculations I gave, and make ludicrous and ridiculous claims. You presented no facts, and no analysis, and your calculations are a joke because you guess at what numbers to plug into your calculations, and you repeated yourself like a broken record. You are like a little kid playing at being a scientist. It's apparent that you worship anyone who agrees with you, and close your ears, eyes, and mind to anything which proves you wrong. Uh huh. I gave you the opportunity, right out in the open, to present someone qualified that could verify chemtrails to both our satisfaction. You refused to do so. Even though I did it. THere was no guarantee that he would agree with me, But, since I am on bozo now, I present this for the others here.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Oh geez, here we go again with the Secret Agent bullshit. Chemtrails don't exist. Saying that does not make one a "agent", you silly fuck. But again, since I am on bozo, I present this for other readers that should take it for what they think it's worth. Your posts typically are hate orientated and contain a generous sprinkling of the word "nigger", where you apparently think ALL black people are "niggers". What's the matter? Are you a nigger? Interesting that you bring that up in a discussion on contrails. You will do anything to distract.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Somehow they use their superpowers, including RadarVision to gain plane and altitude info, and WeatherVision to gain weather conditions at these altitudes. Must be nice to have superpowers. And whats even more amazing, is that they can tell these things from a video! Perhaps they also have RemoteViewing superpowers.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or kinda low rent superpowers... i asked 15 questions, all critical to determining what's going on in that video, and, so far, they cant come up with one answer.
Here is what chemtrails are really about.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_se eding You'll discover that airports and Air Forces routinely use it for "hail and fog suppression". Takeoff and landings are safer with cloud seeding.
What does it matter? Contrails dissipate and disappear quickly. So one is a contrail and the other isn't. Your questions are irrelevant.
That might be a very small part of what they are for.
I emailed Clifford Carnicom to see if that email worked and he replied that yes it does. Email him and ask him these questions. See what he says. What do you have to lose?
See post 42 Can't you find someone better than that? I mean, seriously, find someone better and doesn't have an agenda? Someone neutral? Someone that knows what he is talking about?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or cec102@usa.com
that doesn't appear to me to be the same thing as the multiple planes doing the crisscross patterns. this thread is long and i haven't read it all, but has anyone explained the difference between one plane with a con? chem? trail behind it as opposed to 2 and sometimes 3 crisscrossing over the same area for hours?
how do you know they're the same 2 or 3 planes? the fact that you repeatedly get contrials over the same spot is explained by the fact that a ground-based navigation aid that determines the route of a federal airway is located beneath the planes' flight path. parallel contrails are often indication of a crosswind: a plane flies over a navaid at X time of day in a 40 mph crosswind... ...then, at X + 15 minutes, another plane flies over the same navaid, and in the meantime, the contrail from the original plane has moved downwind 10 miles.
Meanwhile, back in the real world....
here's piece of a IFR_high_altitude_en_route_chart... IFR high altitude en route chart section crisscrossing can be explained by planes bypassing navaid stations, or by planes who've filed flight plans "direct"... planes which use GPS, loran, ADF (including commerical AM radio stations), inertial navigation or other navigation systems that are independent of ground- based navaids.
google image Results 1 - 21 of about 201,000 for high altitude enroute chart
something else that ought to be mentioned, especially if you live in central texas: texas is infested with military flight schools. very few people are "natural" pilots... most pilots have to be trained in formation flying, combat tactics and manuevers, instrument approaches, everything... for instance, if you're practicing instrument approaches, you will practice at high altitude so you dont gum the works up for people who actually want to land at the airport you're practicing on... not to mention that jets get lots better mileage at high altitudes. all this training activity can result in otherwise nonsensical-appearing flight patterns and contrails.
See christine, you apparently never noticed all those trails in the sky till you read about it on the Internet, and groundresonance just taught you about what your sky looks like, with all those jets flying at high altitudes, even though the chemtrails you're seeing are probably at 10,000 feet or less...
for what it's worth, from Moving Targets Forums > References > Contrails In the USAF the brevity term for being in the cons was "Marking", as in "Conan 2, bring it down, you're marking." As we entered the MOA or Warning Area to set up for a practice long range fight we'd have one of our wingmen "light the cans" and climb up to check it (the weather liars aren't always entirely accurate). As soon as he started to "mark" in the climb, one of the other guys would call "Marking" to clue him to report his altitude as you can't see it easily from the cockpit itself (they start a few hundred feet directly behind you usually). Conversely, as he climbed out of the cons, a flight member would call "Stop mark", the reply,"340." Armed with that info, when "committing" out of the CAP, we would go min burner (to save gas) to climb up through the cons above 34,000 so that the bad guys couldn't see us as we approached them from 60-70 miles away. This also serves to increase the range of your missiles as you get faster and higher up in the thinner air, and as well your fuel consumption is significantly less at altitude. Typically, the cons will begin in the mid 20s and end in the mid to high 30s, but they can stretch up into the 40s if atmospheric conditions are right - I had a wingie marking at 49,000 at Nellis once (very rare) when we (Alaska F- 15Cs) were trying to set up a difficult 3 group "Hi-lo stack" problem simulating MiG-29s against heater only armed F-16 students and IPs from the USAF Weapons School back in '93 (I was out of them at 52,000). Six of us against eight of them, but four of theirs were bomb laden strikers. The problem was very difficult - we slaughtered them and the poor student leading the mission had to re-do the ride. They initially saw my wingie in the high cons and got overly concerned with him and thus didn't see a lower Eagle who'd done some good maneuvering with chaff. He ended up 15,000 feet right over the "battle box" of the 4 strikers down in the weeds trying to hide behind mountains as they ingressed to their target. He "popped" all four as he dove down on them in less than 30 seconds then added insult to injury by gunning one of the other Vipers only minutes later - a simulated "Ace in a day".
So are you still trying to sell the idea that the high altitude aircraft leaving the small contrail in the video was actually flying lower than the aircraft that left the huge chemtrail?
all i'm trying to sell is a rational approach to this controversy. if there's a mystery, we have to start somewhere, dont we? and the first place to start is: finding out if there's really a mystery at all. so far, everything you guys have posted has been completely lacking in facts... so nobody can tell, from what you've posted, if there's a mystery or not... ...not only that, but everything you've posted can be explained by the laws of chemistry and physics that cause contrails, so we dont have to trot out out this "chemtrail" baloney at all. so the burden of proof lies with you ...you have to come up with evidence of an existing "chemtrail" that cant be explained by the chemical and physical science of contrails... so far, you've failed miserably to provide proof of anything except your gullibility and bullheadedness.
So do you claim that the high altitude aircraft was flying lower or higher than the aircraft that formed the larger trail?
since you guys are unable to provide altitude data from either airplane, we dont know which plane was the "high altitude aircraft", do we?
I don't think anyone here works for the FAA and has access to flight data, radar logs, or other such information pertaining to the video in question. So we can only apply scientific technique in evaluating what we CAN see. It is apparent that the aircraft leaving the normal contrail is flying at an altitude of between 30,000 and 35,000 feet, is it not?
Did you watch the full video BTW? The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail would be, where the high altitude aircraft is significantly higher in the sky than the lower altitude trail, which arcs down under the tree cover while the high altitude jet is far above it.
we have no way of knowing. that plane creating the small contrail may be down around 20,000', just entering air in which contrails form... not only that, but that could be a very small twin-engine jet, with a wingspan five times smaller than that of the wide contrail plane, and it might be creating only 1/10th of the water that the big contrail jet is creating. or the small contrail plane could be at 35,000 feet, just leaving air where contrails form. we have no way of knowing, since you guys have not provided us with data.
the altitude of the sun is supposedly 93 million miles, and once or twice a day, it comes pretty close to the horizon.
Well there's water in the ocean too, but that doesn't mean I'm swimming in it right now. Man, you are a master of obfuscuation aren't you... The fact is, we are not talking about the sun, we are talking about TWO trails in the sky, one being left by an aircraft that MUST be at a higher altitude than the larger trail due to its position in the sky in relation to the horizon and to the larger trail. Just from your tap dancing it's obvious you're not interested in really finding out the facts, you're here to confuse whatever facts we can determine. I'm surprised you're not trying to claim the contrails are actually formed by starships, since we can see stars, and those stars are in the sky.
Do you think it'd be -43 C at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys, California?
which is higher... the sun or the seagull?
well, we have no data pertaining to that particular day, do we? so we dont know.
Is the sun a seagull? If it were, then the seagull would be higher, but since it's not, then it's an invalid comparison. The fact is, the video shows TWO TRAILS, which YOU claim are BOTH normal CONTRAILS. Since you claim that they are the same phenomenon, then it IS a valid comparison to make between them.
The lower sun is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than the seagull.
Why don't you get some data on that, since you're the one claiming that it can get down to 45 degrees F below zero at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys. BTW, are you aware that Mount McKinley in Alaska (20,320 feet) has a weather station at the 19,000 foot level, and the lowest temperature in July was -22.9 F? I'd say July in Alaska is probably a bit colder still than ANY time of year in Van Nuys, CA.
Uh huh, and when it's nighttime, then it ran away and won't come back, eh?
well, at 00Z 21 Mar 2010 in san diego, it was -17.5 C at 20,000'... and at 28,000 feet, over san diego, it was -34.4 C. sorry, but san diego seems to be as close as i can get to van nuys on that particular site.
According to you, we can't tell the height or relative distance of any of these objects in relation to one another, since we have no data other than what's in the picture. They might all be at the same height, and we can't tell which one's closer, according to your logic...
Comments (85 - 101) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestHey bud, I gave you the science, I explained it all to you. If you're too fucking stupid to understand it, then don't waste my time.
die kill ~~ Me
#45. To: PSUSA (#44)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#46. To: PSUSA, All (#45)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#47. To: wudidiz (#0)
#48. To: groundresonance (#47)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#49. To: FormerLurker (#45)
I think you belong on bozo.
die kill ~~ Me
#50. To: FormerLurker (#46)
(Edited)
One last thing PSUSA. It would not surprise me in the least if you are a government plant here on 4um. Besides taking the stance that chemtrails don't exist, and anyone who thinks they do is ignorant or worse, you seem to be an agent provocateur in terms of race baiting.
die kill ~~ Me
#51. To: groundresonance (#47)
die kill ~~ Me
#52. To: PSUSA (#51)
(Edited)
Must be nice to have superpowers.
#53. To: wudidiz (#0)
#54. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, all (#47)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#55. To: Googolplex (#53)
Here is what chemtrails are really about..
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#56. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, christine (#40)
So you pick the person.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#57. To: wudidiz (#56)
(Edited)
die kill ~~ Me
#58. To: PSUSA (#57)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#59. To: Googolplex, ALL (#53)
#60. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
...2 and sometimes 3 crisscrossing over the same area for hours?
#61. To: All (#60)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#62. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
#63. To: All (#62)
(Edited)
#64. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
#65. To: christine, groundresonance (#64)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#66. To: christine (#59)
As a 20 year fighter pilot I can attest to his offering regarding fighter pilots getting the meteorological info of where "the cons" will be before stepping out to fly.
#67. To: groundresonance (#66)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#68. To: FormerLurker (#67)
(Edited)
are you still trying to sell
#69. To: groundresonance (#68)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: FormerLurker (#69)
you claim that the high altitude aircraft was flying lower or higher than the aircraft that formed the larger trail?
#71. To: groundresonance (#70)
since you guys are unable to provide altitude data from either airplane, we dont know which plane was the "high altitude aircraft", do we?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#72. To: groundresonance (#70)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: FormerLurker (#71)
(Edited)
It is apparent that the aircraft leaving the normal contrail is flying at an altitude of between 30,000 and 35,000 feet, is it not?
#74. To: FormerLurker (#72)
The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail
#75. To: groundresonance (#74)
the altitude of the sun is supposedly 93 million miles, and once or twice a day, it comes pretty close to the horizon.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: groundresonance (#73)
that plane creating the small contrail may be down around 20,000',
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: FormerLurker (#75)
#78. To: FormerLurker (#76)
Do you think it'd be -43 C at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys, California?
#79. To: groundresonance (#77)
which is higher... the sun or the seagull?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#80. To: FormerLurker (#79)
The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail
#81. To: groundresonance (#78)
well, we have no data pertaining to that particular day, do we?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: groundresonance (#80)
The lower sun is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than the seagull.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: FormerLurker (#81)
(Edited)
Why don't you get some data
#84. To: groundresonance (#80)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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