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Title: CONTRAIL vs CHEMTRAIL 101
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Published: Apr 11, 2008
Author: truthseeker1922
Post Date: 2010-03-18 15:43:02 by wudidiz
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Views: 1398
Comments: 101
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#1. To: wudidiz (#0)
Exactly. The way one counters disinformation is with correct information well expressed.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Here we go again. What was the relative humidity, temperature and pressure at the two different altitudes presented in this idiotic video?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Just excellent - thanks.
It's obvious that the chemtrail is at a MUCH lower altitude than the contrail formed by the high altitude aircraft. I'd approximate the chemtrail to be between 7000 and 12,000 feet, whereas the aircraft leaving the contrail would be at around 35,000 feet. Being that there is no way in hell the temperature between 7000 to 12,000 feet would be anywhere close to the -35 C to -45 C temperature range, I'd say it'd be impossible for that chemtrail to actually be a contrail.
You're guessing. What some here are saying is that you cannot guess and hope to come to a correct conclusion. You have no way of knowing the altitude of anything, or of any conditions out there. We don't have to prove they don't exist. You have to prove that they do. Pics or vids without specific information are not proof.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Use a bit of logic. Compare the width of the contrail left by the high altitude aircraft (commercial aircraft cruise at ~ 35,000 feet) with that which is apparently a chemtrail. The contrail left by the high altitude jet is about a wingspan in width. If you look at the width of the larger chemtrail, it's about 5 times the width. So if it's 5 times the size, then it'd be 1/5 of the higher aircraft's altitude, which would be 35,000 feet / 5 = 7,000 feet in altitude. See, it's not rocket science PSUSA, and it does NOT involve simply taking a guess either.... PS: I estimated the altitude to be from 7000 to 12,000 feet, since the chemtrail may have expanded thus be wider than a normal contrail as left by the high altitude aircraft. I allowed for expansion to be up to about 1 3/4 the width.
Ping to post 4 and 6
All you are guessing is altitude. That is not even a factor in contrails.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or All you are guessing is altitude. A) Do or do not commercial aircraft (airliners, cargo planes) cruise at approximately 35,000 feet? Even if the higher flying aircraft were at 40,000 feet, the lower altitude trail would be at 8,000 feet, still nowhere close to a valid altitude for contrails. That is not even a factor in contrails. So now you're trying to say that altitude is not a factor? Well let me fill you in on something. -35 C (-37 F) is a pretty normal temperature for 35,000 feet, but NOT for 7,000 to 12,000 feet. The temperature at that altitude is normally about 0 C (32 F), only about 70 degrees Fahrenheit too hot than the temperature necessary for MAYBE leaving a contrail...
The truth will always ultimately prevail.
You're hanging onto that Appleman chart like a kid with his blankie. Sorry you didn't enjoy the dumb-dumb poo-poohead video.
Thank you for the time and effort to do the math, FL. I'm wondering if the Appleman chart has any relevance at all though since the 'Persistent Contrails', as the Ministry of Truth would have us call them, are not really contrails anyway.
Thank you.
D - if folks don't know the difference by now, God love'em. They won't even be able to buy a clue.
I won't argue with that.
Thank you for the time and effort to do the math, FL. Not a big deal, it was pretty simple once I actually thought about it a bit. I'm wondering if the Appleman chart has any relevance at all though since the 'Persistent Contrails', as the Ministry of Truth would have us call them, are not really contrails anyway. What PSUSA and groundresonance posted was their "scientific evidence" indicating what tempertures were necessary for contrail formation, from a "Maybe contrail" to a "Always contrail". There's no way in hell the temperatures at less than 32,000 feet would be anywhere close to that required for "Maybe contrail" formation, where that chemtrail in the image can't be more than 12,000 feet or so, given its relative width compared to the actual contrail formed by the high altitude aircraft seen in the image.
So by the video you can tell it is at cruising alt? NOt climbing or descending? B) Do you think the larger trail is the same size (as seen visually in the sky) as the smaller one? I can't tell. So now you're trying to say that altitude is not a factor? Well let me fill you in on something. -35 C (-37 F) is a pretty normal temperature for 35,000 feet, but NOT for 7,000 to 12,000 feet. The temperature at that altitude is normally about 0 C (32 F), only about 70 degrees Fahrenheit too hot than the temperature necessary for MAYBE leaving a contrail... 35,000 feet is 6.6 miles. Go to your nearest airport, measure out 6.6 miles out from the airport, where you can still see the runway (LOL!) and try and see a plane at that distance with only your Mk1 eyeballs. Let me fill you in on something. Temp depends on where you are and the time of year. All you have is another silly video. You have no further info on what is shown. If you people want to believe in chemtrails, OK. But when you start trying to convince others, you will meet resistance.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or So by the video you can tell it is at cruising alt? NOt climbing or descending? If it were any less than about 30,000 feet the temperature would be too warm for contrails to form. I was using a standard crusising altitude to take a conservative view, where it COULD have been lower than 35,000, but it would make it even MORE impossible for the larger trail to be a regular contrail if that were the case. In other words, if it were at 30,000 feet, then the lower chemtrail would be at 6,000 feet in altitude rather rather than 7000. It does NOT reach -35 C degrees at 6,000 OR 7,000 feet (a value given for 100% humidity BTW, the actual temperature would need to be more like at least -42 C). 35,000 feet is the standard cruising altitude, but if you take an airliner's MAXIMUM altitude to be about 40,000 feet, then the chemtrail would still only be 8,000 feet high. So it doesn't matter if it was climbing or descending, the minimum and maximum values STILL put the chemtrail far below possible contrail formation altitude. I can't tell. You can't tell that one trail is wider than the other? Perhaps that's your problem, you can't see. The higher trail is about 1/5 the width of the lower trail in terms of relative size in the sky, and that is quite obvious to anyone who looks at the image. Do you have problems judging relative sizes, such as the difference between a bowling ball and a golf ball side by side? Perhaps that's why this all seems perfectly normal to you, your perception is warped. 35,000 feet is 6.6 miles. Go to your nearest airport, measure out 6.6 miles out from the airport, where you can still see the runway (LOL!) and try and see a plane at that distance with only your Mk1 eyeballs. Are you trying to say that airliners are too high in the sky to see when they are at cruising altitude? Seems like you need to have your vision checked, since ANY plane leaving a contrail is at LEAST 30,000 feet in altitude, and I ALWAYS can see the plane leaving a contrail, however faint, in the sky. In fact I saw a squadron of fighter jets flying in formation between destinations leaving contrails once, so they were at least 30,000 feet high, and I could STILL make out the shape of the plane even though a fighter jet is MUCH smaller than an airliner. I think we're beginning to find out why you can't tell a contrail from a chemtrail, you're legally blind. Temp depends on where you are and the time of year. To a point. -42 C (-43.6 F) is NOT an air temperature that you'd find at altitudes less than 30,000 feet unless you were in the Artic or Antarctic regions. I don't think people seeing chemtrails in Texas, Arizona, or even New England states are experiencing Arctic conditions to be honest. All you have is another silly video. You have no further info on what is shown. All YOU have is lack of common sense, poor vision, and the inability to think through a problem. I have shown you that it is virtually impossible for the lower altitude trail to be a contrail. If you can't understand the reasoning, or refuse to, then that's your problem, not mine.
What kind of plane made the persistent contrail? You cannot even tell if it was a 1, 2, or 4 engine plane. It could easily be higher than you think. How about the one that you say is above? What can you tell me about that plane? He has both used zoom-in and increased the speed of the one aircraft visible. Why? Either that, or he got video of the Aurora and should expect a call from the NSA any time... Are you trying to say that airliners are too high in the sky to see when they are at cruising altitude? Seems like you need to have your vision checked, since ANY plane leaving a contrail is at LEAST 30,000 feet in altitude, and I ALWAYS can see the plane leaving a contrail, however faint, in the sky. How do you know it is at cruise alt.? It takes time to climb that high. "ANY plane leaving a contrail is at LEAST 30,000 feet in altitude" Really? You got that info where? That has the stench of BS to me... All you have is a video. You have no other info. None. All you are doing is you are trying to figure out the variables by watching this video that was manipulated by zooming in and out, and video speed, when you can't know what values to plug in. I have shown you that it is virtually impossible for the lower altitude trail to be a contrail. If you can't understand the reasoning, or refuse to, then that's your problem, not mine. You assign it a lower altitude. How low is it? How do you call that "reasoning"?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or What kind of plane made the persistent contrail? You cannot even tell if it was a 1, 2, or 4 engine plane. It could easily be higher than you think. Would it matter? I was referring to contrail formation, not how many engines the plane had. However, if you REALLY want to know, only an idiot would think there's only one engine, since there are two streams of vapor. Regardless, the fact is contrails were formed, and the aircraft is above 30,000 feet, more than likely 35,000 feet or so. How do you know it is at cruise alt.? It takes time to climb that high. Because for one, the aircraft was leaving contrails, so it was over 30,000 feet. For two, it doesn't matter if it were climbing or descending, as long as it was over that altitude. For three, judging from it's horizontal velocity it was traveling level, since if it were descending or climbing it's horizontal velocity would be diminished. Really? You got that info where? That has the stench of BS to me... For one, the temperature is not cold enough at lower altitudes. Look it up genius, find me a chart of air temperatures at varying altitudes located over a temperate area where the air temperature is -42 C or less at an altitude less than 30,000 feet. All you are doing is you are trying to figure out the variables by watching this video that was manipulated by zooming in and out, and video speed, when you can't know what values to plug in. I was simply working from the posted main image of the video on this thread. It's apparent to any with a brain that the higher jet is higher than the lower chemtrail, and the contrail is about 1/5 the width of the lower chemtrail. You assign it a lower altitude. How low is it? How do you call that "reasoning"? Did you graduate elementary school? Objects of similar size will appear larger when they are closer. If you see two objects of equal size, and one is 5 times larger than the other, then that object is 5 times closer. Given a distance for the further object, X, the closer object would be 1/5 X in distance. If the smaller object is 40,000 feet away, then the closer object is 8,000 feet away. You're welcome for the math and science lesson.
I must really be getting under your skin here... You don't even know what time of year this vid was taken, or where it was taken. There is only a hint, when brush was shown. It still could have been winter, and who knows where. You are making the mistake of thinking the atmosphere is incapable of any variation in temps, and you are making the mistake of not knowing at what altitudes the planes are at. I was simply working from the posted main image of the video on this thread. It's apparent to any with a brain that the higher jet is higher than the lower chemtrail, and the contrail is about 1/5 the width of the lower chemtrail. Interesting, in that you didn't see the plane that laid down your "chemtrail". You have no idea how long it was there, and what wind forces were working to disburse it. Again, you are trying to get more info out of that video than what is shown. Science will not help you do that. In fact, if you send this entire thread to a scientist, he will tell you the same thing. Unless he is in a bad mood. Then he might not be so nice about it, if he bothers to answer at all.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or There is only a hint, when brush was shown. It still could have been winter, and who knows where. You are making the mistake of thinking the atmosphere is incapable of any variation in temps, and you are making the mistake of not knowing at what altitudes the planes are at. I'm intelligent enough to know that in MOST places around the world, the air temperature doesn't hit -43 degrees Fahrenheit at moderate altitudes. For two, the lower that upper plane is in altitude, the smaller it'd have to be given it's visual size in the sky. It appears to be a commericial aircraft, not a small jet fighter or anything, so for it's size in the sky, it'd be fairly high up. But if it WERE flying at say 20,000 feet instead of 35,000, then the lower trail would need to be at 4,000 feet in altitude, not 7,000. So the lower the upper plane is, the lower the lower trail is. Are you trying to say that there's a place in this country where air temperatures are less than 43 degrees below zero at 4,000 feet, no matter WHAT season of the year we're talking about?
Given that you are claiming the lower trail to be a contrail, it would thus have to have similar characteristics as a regular contrail. Even WITH expansion, say spreading out to twice it's original size, the end result given for even a 40,000 foot altitude for the higher altitude jet contrail would result in 2/5 * 40,000 = 16,000 feet high, STILL too low to form a contrail. A scientist would tell you how dumb you are for ignoring simple easily observable facts.
Perhaps. That doesn't mean that your math isn't BS. You are plugging in numbers that are your best guess, but you are still guessing. I'll see of I can find a meteorologist to answer these questions. Unless, that is, you think that THEY have gotten to all meteorologists...
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or How do you think physicists make observations and measurements, by guessing?? An observation is not a guess, and a relative comparison is not a guess. I guess that you able to understand the difference however.
I sent the following email to http://www.ksl.com/ Ask The Meteorologist. Sir, I have a question regarding the validity of the so-called "chemtrails" vs persistent contrails. I'm sure you have heard of these things. I did check, via the websites search engine, to see if this has been covered before and was not able to find anything. What conditions would allow what some call chemtrails? How common are these conditions? Any other information you can provide, I will be sure to pass along. I understand if you choose not to answer these questions since this gets into various conspiracy theories. But it would help if you could lead me in the right direction in order to debunk the existence of chemtrails once and for all. Thank you for your time. XXX XXXXX I'll give him a couple days to reply. We'll see what he says, if anything. If I get no reply, I'll try another. One way or another, this will get settled. People are wasting too much time and energy on BS. Including me :)
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Here is his response. We go through periods when a lot of people as us about these so-called "chemtrails". We don't believe that this are what are purported to be but rather is a natural phenomenon from jet aircraft. The exhaust from the aircraft is moisture laden and condenses in the atmosphere at the elevations where the jets fly. They are called "contrails" which is short for "condensation trail". I had a university professor who, in his early days of forecasting, was a weather forecaster during WWII and would let the Allied bomber pilots know at which elevation they would start to make contrails and thus be visible by enemy anti-aircraft batteries on the ground. Here are some of the points I try to make with people when they claim there is a conspiracy about “chem-trails” or because we don’t talk about it that I must be “in” on the conspiracy: Jet aircraft are crossing over the planet daily with hundreds of flights daily - are they all poisoning us? There have to be specific atmospheric conditions in order for contrails to form, for instance humidity, air pressure and temperature. If these are not met, no contrails are formed. It can be very cold on the ground but yet in the upper atmosphere it may not be cold enough to form contrails. So what about all the other days of the year when there are no contrail seen from the ground – are there also unseen chem-trails? If “people” are using commercial aircraft to poison the air or modify the weather, what happens with all the passengers on those planes? Wouldn’t you think that there would be some instances of illness? Think about the secrecy needed and the costs needed for the many days that people say that chem-trails are being sprayed in the air. Lastly, if certain people really wanted to poison us with gasses from commercial aircraft, why not fly and drop the chemicals on moon-less nights when it would not be visible by the general public? None of us here at the KSL weather department believe in “chem-trails” nor do we like to encourage those people who choose to believe in this non-conspiracy. Keith Merrill He knows they are crap. But perhaps you'd like a second opinion? And if that second opinion disagrees with you, you would then like a third opinion? Rinse and repeat? Sooner or later, someone might agree with you, if you ask enough people, and you aren't too picky about the people you ask.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Why are you asking a meteorologist, they're not clouds. Airplanes don't make clouds. Anyway, he's full of shit and so are you. He doesn't know what he's talking about or he's lying or he's just feeding you the same nonsense he was taught. Either way, he's wrong. Contrails don't make clouds. Ever.
Hmmm. OK. Who should I ask? Tell me who would be able to answer these questions if not a meteorologist?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Perhaps you could ask the FBI about the JFK assassination, and ask Homeland Security about the 9/11 attacks, I'm sure you'd get the real answers to your questions. What a putz. So because the guy doesn't believe it can happen, the government would never do anything like that, and because it can't be true, then it can't be true and can't happen. Yeah, that's a real scientific answer....
... supplied by someone that knows what he is talking about. So, he is "in" on "it"? "They" got to him? Man, "they" sure are all-powerful! I wonder if he goes out into the desert to worship the devil and eat roasted babies and plot our destruction with his reptilian masters. And you call me a putz? That is funny! OK, I will ask you this: who should we ask? Hmmmm??? Tell me, and I'll ask him or her. Or, you can do it. But I bet you won't. You need to find someone that you know ahead of time will agree with you. I have no such fears. This whole thing has been a waste of time. But it has also been amusing.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Point out ONE scientific fact that "Mr. Meterologist" gave.
Why didn't you ask Mr. Wizard about the relative altitude of the trails seen in the video which wudidiz posted? Afraid to get an answer you don't want to hear? Being that you could very well have made up that "response", since it simply parrots the usual talking points concerning chemtrails (ie. jets make contrails, they form from water vapor, etc., etc., etc., like no shit Sherlock), what you posted amounts to nothing more than you posting your own thoughts.
Well it's apparent that you're so cold hearted you find killing dolphins to be a great and wonderful thing, so I wouldn't doubt YOU do the above, or at least you would if you could.
Try NOAA... OK, give me the name of a person there. Or better yet, why don't you write them yourself? I know why you won't. The insidious reach of the illuminati has reached into the very heart of NOAA, making sure that no mention is ever made of chemtrails... That is sarcasm, BTW. I know that there are those here that would say that in all seriousness. If you can say that about a meteorologist, you'll say it about the NOAA. After all, you said, and I quote, " Perhaps you could ask the FBI about the JFK assassination, and ask Homeland Security about the 9/11 attacks, I'm sure you'd get the real answers to your questions. " So, name someone we can ask.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Do you know how to use Google? How about reading the info at the link I posted for starters. In fact, if you really wanted to research this topic, you could contact their public affairs office and ask for info. Now, STFU till you grow a few brain cells and can do the most basic of research.
The reason I wont do it is that you will pull the same shit you did with the meteorologist. So you pick the person. Or you do it yourself. Or stfu.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I suggest you go back to hanging with your fellow chimps, you certainly don't know shit about science, and lack the ability to discuss a topic rationally.
You're not rational. The reason I wont do it is that you will pull the same shit you did with the meteorologist. So you pick the person. Or you do it yourself. Or stfu.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Clifford Carnicom... cec102@usa.com or info@carnicominstitute.info
It's an institute! I am impressed! They have their very own institute! That must mean they are truth seekers of the highest order! and the .info part! That must mean that they must have some great info there, huh? That pic proves that they have their own lab! We have a limited amount of time and staff to reply to inquiries. Please include contact information in your message if a reply is desired. info@carnicominstitute.info Limited staff? I guess a "board" of 4 is somewhat limited... And there's this: The Carnicom Institute is raising funds to obtain IRS 501 c3 tax exempt status. Your support would be greatly appreciated. How much money does that take? http://www.tswrobel-law.com/nonprofit_resources/np_faq.htm#12 12. How much will it cost to get our tax exempt status? The IRS has charged a non-refundable processing fee for exemption applications since 1987. There is currently a two tier fee schedule. Organizations whose gross receipts have averaged, or will average, not more than $10,000 per year pay $150. Larger organizations pay $500. A new IRS Revenue Procedure announcing the fees comes out each January; if you are submitting your application late in the year, there may be some benefit to getting it in before January 1st. [Other costs you might incur when setting up a new non-profit organization include incorporation, charitable solicitation and other registration fees to state and local authorities, and fees to have your articles of incorporation, ylaws and exemption application professionally prepared.] Are they that broke? Lee Riddle - Secretary Living on the South coast of Oregon, Lee is employed in agricultural research. His education is in Horticulture, Agriculture, Chemistry, and Botany He looks like he got his education crowing sativa... That, and a reporter, and a gemologist, and a who-knows-what round out the "board" there. That is one impressive institute! Try again.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Hey bud, I gave you the science, I explained it all to you. If you're too fucking stupid to understand it, then don't waste my time. You're such an idiot, you think that by asking a Mr. Wizard type person on the Internet a question concerning chemtrails you're going to get a valid and thorough answer. Do you really think some shmuck answering questions about what the weather is going to be like tomorrow is going to be able to give you a valid answer? I gave you a link that does in fact indicate there are at least 47 ongoing weather modification projects, which includes activity such as what we call chemtrails. If you're too lazy or stupid to read it, then it's obvious you're just trolling here.
Your own words prove you are not rational. I am not "too fucking stupid to understand it". I am smart enough to recognize bullshit when I see it, and your posts are bullshit. At least when it comes to this topic. You did not give me science. You did not explain anything. You gave me guesses. YOu gave me faulty conclusions based on those guesses. I tried to give you science by someone that studies the atmosphere for a living and you chose to disregard it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Now, about these "chemtrails". Who is a good neutral and honest source to ask about them? Surely there is someone out there... Let's keep this on topic. Who knows? Maybe you are right. But your attempts at proving it are not exactly awe inspiring. I can tell that I am getting further under your skin. That sometimes happens when a person dares question a fanatic. You need to relax and think before you post. That might help you some.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I think you belong on bozo. You repeat yourself like a broken record, ignore the facts, analysis, and calculations I gave, and make ludicrous and ridiculous claims. I tried to give you science by someone that studies the atmosphere for a living and you chose to disregard it. Bullshit, that character didn't state one scientific fact or offer any analysis, he simply regurgitated things any retard could tell you, such as "jet aircraft sometimes make contrails". It's apparent that you worship anyone who agrees with you, and close your ears, eyes, and mind to anything which proves you wrong. You apparently have ignored the link concerning the NOAA's weather modification projects. It's apparent you don't care about the topic, and are simply here to argue with people. All I can say is, adios Mr. Bozo.
One last thing PSUSA. It would not surprise me in the least if you are a government plant here on 4um. Besides taking the stance that chemtrails don't exist, and anyone who thinks they do is ignorant or worse, you seem to be an agent provocateur in terms of race baiting. Your posts typically are hate orientated and contain a generous sprinkling of the word "nigger", where you apparently think ALL black people are "niggers". Either you're some sort of extreme racist from the likes of StormFront, or you're here to make the forum look bad. Either way, I don't find it worth speaking with you any longer at this point.
You're actually trying to say the larger trail is at a higher altitude than the smaller trail? LOL!!!!!!!! What left that larger trail, an alien mothership from "V"?
Run away! Run Away! You repeat yourself like a broken record, ignore the facts, analysis, and calculations I gave, and make ludicrous and ridiculous claims. You presented no facts, and no analysis, and your calculations are a joke because you guess at what numbers to plug into your calculations, and you repeated yourself like a broken record. You are like a little kid playing at being a scientist. It's apparent that you worship anyone who agrees with you, and close your ears, eyes, and mind to anything which proves you wrong. Uh huh. I gave you the opportunity, right out in the open, to present someone qualified that could verify chemtrails to both our satisfaction. You refused to do so. Even though I did it. THere was no guarantee that he would agree with me, But, since I am on bozo now, I present this for the others here.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Oh geez, here we go again with the Secret Agent bullshit. Chemtrails don't exist. Saying that does not make one a "agent", you silly fuck. But again, since I am on bozo, I present this for other readers that should take it for what they think it's worth. Your posts typically are hate orientated and contain a generous sprinkling of the word "nigger", where you apparently think ALL black people are "niggers". What's the matter? Are you a nigger? Interesting that you bring that up in a discussion on contrails. You will do anything to distract.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Somehow they use their superpowers, including RadarVision to gain plane and altitude info, and WeatherVision to gain weather conditions at these altitudes. Must be nice to have superpowers. And whats even more amazing, is that they can tell these things from a video! Perhaps they also have RemoteViewing superpowers.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or kinda low rent superpowers... i asked 15 questions, all critical to determining what's going on in that video, and, so far, they cant come up with one answer.
Here is what chemtrails are really about.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_se eding You'll discover that airports and Air Forces routinely use it for "hail and fog suppression". Takeoff and landings are safer with cloud seeding.
What does it matter? Contrails dissipate and disappear quickly. So one is a contrail and the other isn't. Your questions are irrelevant.
That might be a very small part of what they are for.
I emailed Clifford Carnicom to see if that email worked and he replied that yes it does. Email him and ask him these questions. See what he says. What do you have to lose?
See post 42 Can't you find someone better than that? I mean, seriously, find someone better and doesn't have an agenda? Someone neutral? Someone that knows what he is talking about?
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or cec102@usa.com
that doesn't appear to me to be the same thing as the multiple planes doing the crisscross patterns. this thread is long and i haven't read it all, but has anyone explained the difference between one plane with a con? chem? trail behind it as opposed to 2 and sometimes 3 crisscrossing over the same area for hours?
how do you know they're the same 2 or 3 planes? the fact that you repeatedly get contrials over the same spot is explained by the fact that a ground-based navigation aid that determines the route of a federal airway is located beneath the planes' flight path. parallel contrails are often indication of a crosswind: a plane flies over a navaid at X time of day in a 40 mph crosswind... ...then, at X + 15 minutes, another plane flies over the same navaid, and in the meantime, the contrail from the original plane has moved downwind 10 miles.
Meanwhile, back in the real world....
here's piece of a IFR_high_altitude_en_route_chart... IFR high altitude en route chart section crisscrossing can be explained by planes bypassing navaid stations, or by planes who've filed flight plans "direct"... planes which use GPS, loran, ADF (including commerical AM radio stations), inertial navigation or other navigation systems that are independent of ground- based navaids.
google image Results 1 - 21 of about 201,000 for high altitude enroute chart
something else that ought to be mentioned, especially if you live in central texas: texas is infested with military flight schools. very few people are "natural" pilots... most pilots have to be trained in formation flying, combat tactics and manuevers, instrument approaches, everything... for instance, if you're practicing instrument approaches, you will practice at high altitude so you dont gum the works up for people who actually want to land at the airport you're practicing on... not to mention that jets get lots better mileage at high altitudes. all this training activity can result in otherwise nonsensical-appearing flight patterns and contrails.
See christine, you apparently never noticed all those trails in the sky till you read about it on the Internet, and groundresonance just taught you about what your sky looks like, with all those jets flying at high altitudes, even though the chemtrails you're seeing are probably at 10,000 feet or less...
for what it's worth, from Moving Targets Forums > References > Contrails In the USAF the brevity term for being in the cons was "Marking", as in "Conan 2, bring it down, you're marking." As we entered the MOA or Warning Area to set up for a practice long range fight we'd have one of our wingmen "light the cans" and climb up to check it (the weather liars aren't always entirely accurate). As soon as he started to "mark" in the climb, one of the other guys would call "Marking" to clue him to report his altitude as you can't see it easily from the cockpit itself (they start a few hundred feet directly behind you usually). Conversely, as he climbed out of the cons, a flight member would call "Stop mark", the reply,"340." Armed with that info, when "committing" out of the CAP, we would go min burner (to save gas) to climb up through the cons above 34,000 so that the bad guys couldn't see us as we approached them from 60-70 miles away. This also serves to increase the range of your missiles as you get faster and higher up in the thinner air, and as well your fuel consumption is significantly less at altitude. Typically, the cons will begin in the mid 20s and end in the mid to high 30s, but they can stretch up into the 40s if atmospheric conditions are right - I had a wingie marking at 49,000 at Nellis once (very rare) when we (Alaska F- 15Cs) were trying to set up a difficult 3 group "Hi-lo stack" problem simulating MiG-29s against heater only armed F-16 students and IPs from the USAF Weapons School back in '93 (I was out of them at 52,000). Six of us against eight of them, but four of theirs were bomb laden strikers. The problem was very difficult - we slaughtered them and the poor student leading the mission had to re-do the ride. They initially saw my wingie in the high cons and got overly concerned with him and thus didn't see a lower Eagle who'd done some good maneuvering with chaff. He ended up 15,000 feet right over the "battle box" of the 4 strikers down in the weeds trying to hide behind mountains as they ingressed to their target. He "popped" all four as he dove down on them in less than 30 seconds then added insult to injury by gunning one of the other Vipers only minutes later - a simulated "Ace in a day".
So are you still trying to sell the idea that the high altitude aircraft leaving the small contrail in the video was actually flying lower than the aircraft that left the huge chemtrail?
all i'm trying to sell is a rational approach to this controversy. if there's a mystery, we have to start somewhere, dont we? and the first place to start is: finding out if there's really a mystery at all. so far, everything you guys have posted has been completely lacking in facts... so nobody can tell, from what you've posted, if there's a mystery or not... ...not only that, but everything you've posted can be explained by the laws of chemistry and physics that cause contrails, so we dont have to trot out out this "chemtrail" baloney at all. so the burden of proof lies with you ...you have to come up with evidence of an existing "chemtrail" that cant be explained by the chemical and physical science of contrails... so far, you've failed miserably to provide proof of anything except your gullibility and bullheadedness.
So do you claim that the high altitude aircraft was flying lower or higher than the aircraft that formed the larger trail?
since you guys are unable to provide altitude data from either airplane, we dont know which plane was the "high altitude aircraft", do we?
I don't think anyone here works for the FAA and has access to flight data, radar logs, or other such information pertaining to the video in question. So we can only apply scientific technique in evaluating what we CAN see. It is apparent that the aircraft leaving the normal contrail is flying at an altitude of between 30,000 and 35,000 feet, is it not?
Did you watch the full video BTW? The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail would be, where the high altitude aircraft is significantly higher in the sky than the lower altitude trail, which arcs down under the tree cover while the high altitude jet is far above it.
we have no way of knowing. that plane creating the small contrail may be down around 20,000', just entering air in which contrails form... not only that, but that could be a very small twin-engine jet, with a wingspan five times smaller than that of the wide contrail plane, and it might be creating only 1/10th of the water that the big contrail jet is creating. or the small contrail plane could be at 35,000 feet, just leaving air where contrails form. we have no way of knowing, since you guys have not provided us with data.
the altitude of the sun is supposedly 93 million miles, and once or twice a day, it comes pretty close to the horizon.
Well there's water in the ocean too, but that doesn't mean I'm swimming in it right now. Man, you are a master of obfuscuation aren't you... The fact is, we are not talking about the sun, we are talking about TWO trails in the sky, one being left by an aircraft that MUST be at a higher altitude than the larger trail due to its position in the sky in relation to the horizon and to the larger trail. Just from your tap dancing it's obvious you're not interested in really finding out the facts, you're here to confuse whatever facts we can determine. I'm surprised you're not trying to claim the contrails are actually formed by starships, since we can see stars, and those stars are in the sky.
Do you think it'd be -43 C at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys, California?
which is higher... the sun or the seagull?
well, we have no data pertaining to that particular day, do we? so we dont know.
Is the sun a seagull? If it were, then the seagull would be higher, but since it's not, then it's an invalid comparison. The fact is, the video shows TWO TRAILS, which YOU claim are BOTH normal CONTRAILS. Since you claim that they are the same phenomenon, then it IS a valid comparison to make between them.
The lower sun is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than the seagull.
Why don't you get some data on that, since you're the one claiming that it can get down to 45 degrees F below zero at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys. BTW, are you aware that Mount McKinley in Alaska (20,320 feet) has a weather station at the 19,000 foot level, and the lowest temperature in July was -22.9 F? I'd say July in Alaska is probably a bit colder still than ANY time of year in Van Nuys, CA.
Uh huh, and when it's nighttime, then it ran away and won't come back, eh?
well, at 00Z 21 Mar 2010 in san diego, it was -17.5 C at 20,000'... and at 28,000 feet, over san diego, it was -34.4 C. sorry, but san diego seems to be as close as i can get to van nuys on that particular site.
According to you, we can't tell the height or relative distance of any of these objects in relation to one another, since we have no data other than what's in the picture. They might all be at the same height, and we can't tell which one's closer, according to your logic... and at 28,000 feet, over san diego, it was -34.4 C. Well there you go, it's IMPOSSIBLE for contrails to form at those temperatures.
it's becoming obvious that you have no interest at all in doing your homework. since i have better things to do than babysit you, i'm gonna let you go.
Thanks for admitting that you were just bullshitting us, and that since I made it obvious that you were NOT going to bullshit me, you simply gave up and ran.
for those of you who are curious about temperatures and pressures at various altitudes above your location, here's a site that has that information. you will need to convert altitude in meters to altitude in feet: here's a meters to feet conversion gizmo. you may want to convert centigrade temperatures to fahrenheit: here's a converter. here's a link to appleman charts. here are the questions that need to be answered it we're to understand the original video:
Your questions are bullshit, since it's apparent the smaller contrail is being formed by an aircraft OVER 30,000 feet high, and the fact is, the larger trail is five times larger, so with all sorts of fudge factors involved, it's at MOST 20,000 feet high, without using improbable fudge factors, more like 8000 feet high, especially in terms of it's arc over the horizon in the video. And there's no way in hell you'll see a contrail form at 20,000 feet or less over Van Nuys due to the air temperature at those altitudes, so that trail is NOT a contrail.
Actually though, that high altitude aircraft does NOT appear to be a small business jet, so its contrail SHOULD be roughly the same actual width or greater than the lower trail, so that WOULD make the lower trail 1/5 (if the same size aircraft) or LOWER (if the lower trail was formed by a smaller aircraft) than the smaller trail's altitude, but since it's impossible for the lower trail to BE a contrail, then who knows. Judging from relative angles across the entire video, I stand by my estimate of 8000 feet, plus or minus 2000.
since i have better things to do than babysit you, i'm gonna let you go. FYI, Lurker thinks aliens ships are in very close orbit around the Sun. Some people are just plain nuts.
God is always good!
Eat shit Ricky, it's apparent you support those who are here to shill for the government.
BTW Ricky, why don't you tell us your feelings on how the Earth was created, and how long it's been here...
Do you think the earths rotation would have anything to do with these contrail patterns? Since they are aiming for flying over / to fixed points on the earth, and the earth spins more or less independently from the atmosphere, then you will get parallel lines and X intersections. Just an idea.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or It took some time for me to get under his skin. You did it in one post! Congrats! ;)
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Movements of air in the atmosphere and water in the ocean are notable examples of this behavior: rather than flowing directly from areas of high pressure to low pressure, as they would on a non-rotating planet, winds and currents tend to flow to the right of this direction north of the equator, and to the left of this direction south of the equator. This effect is responsible for the rotation of large cyclones Coriolis effect wikipedia looks like coriolis causes the wind to curve, so contrails embedded in the atmosphere would curve along with the wind. i dont know if it happens on a small enough scale that you'd be able to spot those curvatures from the ground, though... this judging from satellite photos of persistent contrails, which seem to be straight... if a long contrail persisted long enough, maybe we'd be able to see some curvature from space. or maybe the rotation is so massive that a contrail embedded in the air mass stays straight. dont know.
I dont think we are writing about the same thing here. I'm not writing about curvature. Say you are flying from KC, MO to Houston. That is more or less north and south. You take off at 9am. Another plane takes off at 9:30, same flight plan. The earth will rotate X distance, west to east, in 30 minutes. To my way of thinking you will have parallel contrails with those 2 planes. The planes fly over the same ground, but not through the same atmosphere since the earth and the atmosphere are more or less independent. This would lay down 2 parallel contrails X distance apart. Another reason for parallel trails, if 2 planes are flying together, is in keeping proper distance between aircraft heading in the same direction.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or the independence of the earth from its atmosphere is measured as wind velocity.
I can see that being a factor, but is that an absolute statement of fact? Wind velocity also has to do with high and low pressure systems etc. OK, my example of 30 minutes would be too long in my example, using your pic, even though the pic is of parallel contrails according to the file name. Perhaps 5 minutes or less would be better. The more east/west you fly the tighter the contrails would be. Thanks! Once I really get into this, I realize how much I don't know about weather etc. It's an interesting science.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or it was hands down the most universally despised subject in flight school. it's complicated and it's boring... ...and for a helicopter pilot who is the next thing to a john deere tractor driver, it's useless... mainly because helicopters are working under the weather, and your forecast consists of getting up before daylight and looking out the window to see if it's raining or blowing or snowing too hard to work.
I can see how it would be despised, if it wasn't even a factor in what you do. It reminds me of the courses I was forced to take to just get a associates degree, that had exactly nothing to do with that field. I guess teachers in these subjects had their own welfare racket going.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or
#2. To: wudidiz (#0)
die kill ~~ Me
#3. To: wudidiz (#0)
#4. To: PSUSA (#2)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#5. To: FormerLurker, all (#4)
die kill ~~ Me
#6. To: PSUSA (#5)
(Edited)
You're guessing. What some here are saying is that you cannot guess and hope to come to a correct conclusion. You have no way of knowing the altitude of anything, or of any conditions out there.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#7. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent, groundresonance, All (#6)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#8. To: FormerLurker (#6)
die kill ~~ Me
#9. To: PSUSA (#8)
(Edited)
B) Do you think the larger trail is the same size (as seen visually in the sky) as the smaller one?
C) Since it's obvious to all but the most brain dead that the larger one IS larger than the smaller one, is not the larger one approximately 5 times the width of the smaller one?
D) If it is 5 times the width, would it not be a valid assumption that it would be approximately 1/5 the altitude of the smaller contrail?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#10. To: Original_Intent (#1)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#11. To: PSUSA (#2)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#12. To: FormerLurker (#7)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#13. To: Lod (#3)
Just excellent - thanks.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#14. To: wudidiz (#13)
#15. To: Lod (#14)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#16. To: wudidiz, PSUSA, groundresonance, All (#12)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#17. To: FormerLurker (#9)
A) Do or do not commercial aircraft (airliners, cargo planes) cruise at approximately 35,000 feet?
die kill ~~ Me
#18. To: PSUSA (#17)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#19. To: FormerLurker (#18)
You can't tell that one trail is wider than the other? Perhaps that's your problem, you can't see. The higher trail is about 1/5 the width of the lower trail in terms of relative size in the sky, and that is quite obvious to anyone who looks at the image.
die kill ~~ Me
#20. To: PSUSA (#19)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#21. To: FormerLurker (#20)
For one, the temperature is not cold enough at lower altitudes. Look it up genius, find me a chart of air temperatures at varying altitudes located over a temperate area where the air temperature is -42 C or less at an altitude less than 30,000 feet.
die kill ~~ Me
#22. To: PSUSA (#21)
You don't even know what time of year this vid was taken, or where it was taken.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#23. To: PSUSA (#21)
Again, you are trying to get more info out of that video than what is shown. Science will not help you do that. In fact, if you send this entire thread to a scientist, he will tell you the same thing. Unless he is in a bad mood. Then he might not be so nice about it, if he bothers to answer at all.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#24. To: FormerLurker (#23)
A scientist would tell you how dumb you are for ignoring simple easily observable facts.
die kill ~~ Me
#25. To: PSUSA (#24)
That doesn't mean that your math isn't BS. You are plugging in numbers that are your best guess, but you are still guessing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#26. To: FormerLurker (#25)
(Edited)
die kill ~~ Me
#27. To: FormerLurker (#25)
die kill ~~ Me
#28. To: PSUSA, FormerLurker (#27)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#29. To: wudidiz (#28)
die kill ~~ Me
#30. To: PSUSA (#27)
He knows they are crap. But perhaps you'd like a second opinion? And if that second opinion disagrees with you, you would then like a third opinion? Rinse and repeat?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#31. To: FormerLurker (#30)
(Edited)
Yeah, that's a real scientific answer....
die kill ~~ Me
#32. To: PSUSA (#31)
... supplied by someone that knows what he is talking about. So, he is "in" on "it"? "They" got to him? Man, "they" sure are all-powerful!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#33. To: PSUSA (#31)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#34. To: PSUSA (#31)
I wonder if he goes out into the desert to worship the devil and eat roasted babies and plot our destruction with his reptilian masters.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#35. To: PSUSA (#29)
Hmmm. OK. Who should I ask? Tell me who would be able to answer these questions if not a meteorologist?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#36. To: FormerLurker (#35)
Try NOAA...
die kill ~~ Me
#37. To: PSUSA (#36)
OK, give me the name of a person there. Or better yet, why don't you write them yourself?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#38. To: FormerLurker (#37)
die kill ~~ Me
#39. To: PSUSA (#38)
CHIMPOUT!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#40. To: FormerLurker (#39)
die kill ~~ Me
#41. To: PSUSA, FormerLurker (#38)
So you pick the person.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#42. To: wudidiz (#41)
carnicominstitute.info
die kill ~~ Me
#43. To: PSUSA (#40)
You're not rational.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
(Edited)
Hey bud, I gave you the science, I explained it all to you. If you're too fucking stupid to understand it, then don't waste my time.
die kill ~~ Me
#45. To: PSUSA (#44)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#46. To: PSUSA, All (#45)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#47. To: wudidiz (#0)
#48. To: groundresonance (#47)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#49. To: FormerLurker (#45)
I think you belong on bozo.
die kill ~~ Me
#50. To: FormerLurker (#46)
(Edited)
One last thing PSUSA. It would not surprise me in the least if you are a government plant here on 4um. Besides taking the stance that chemtrails don't exist, and anyone who thinks they do is ignorant or worse, you seem to be an agent provocateur in terms of race baiting.
die kill ~~ Me
#51. To: groundresonance (#47)
die kill ~~ Me
#52. To: PSUSA (#51)
(Edited)
Must be nice to have superpowers.
#53. To: wudidiz (#0)
#54. To: groundresonance, FormerLurker, all (#47)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#55. To: Googolplex (#53)
Here is what chemtrails are really about..
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#56. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, christine (#40)
So you pick the person.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#57. To: wudidiz (#56)
(Edited)
die kill ~~ Me
#58. To: PSUSA (#57)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#59. To: Googolplex, ALL (#53)
#60. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
...2 and sometimes 3 crisscrossing over the same area for hours?
#61. To: All (#60)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#62. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
#63. To: All (#62)
(Edited)
#64. To: christine (#59)
(Edited)
#65. To: christine, groundresonance (#64)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#66. To: christine (#59)
As a 20 year fighter pilot I can attest to his offering regarding fighter pilots getting the meteorological info of where "the cons" will be before stepping out to fly.
#67. To: groundresonance (#66)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#68. To: FormerLurker (#67)
(Edited)
are you still trying to sell
#69. To: groundresonance (#68)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: FormerLurker (#69)
you claim that the high altitude aircraft was flying lower or higher than the aircraft that formed the larger trail?
#71. To: groundresonance (#70)
since you guys are unable to provide altitude data from either airplane, we dont know which plane was the "high altitude aircraft", do we?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#72. To: groundresonance (#70)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: FormerLurker (#71)
(Edited)
It is apparent that the aircraft leaving the normal contrail is flying at an altitude of between 30,000 and 35,000 feet, is it not?
#74. To: FormerLurker (#72)
The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail
#75. To: groundresonance (#74)
the altitude of the sun is supposedly 93 million miles, and once or twice a day, it comes pretty close to the horizon.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: groundresonance (#73)
that plane creating the small contrail may be down around 20,000',
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: FormerLurker (#75)
#78. To: FormerLurker (#76)
Do you think it'd be -43 C at 20,000 feet over Van Nuys, California?
#79. To: groundresonance (#77)
which is higher... the sun or the seagull?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#80. To: FormerLurker (#79)
The lower trail is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than a high altitude trail
#81. To: groundresonance (#78)
well, we have no data pertaining to that particular day, do we?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: groundresonance (#80)
The lower sun is VERY low on the horizon, MUCH lower than the seagull.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: FormerLurker (#81)
(Edited)
Why don't you get some data
#84. To: groundresonance (#80)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#85. To: groundresonance (#83)
well, at 00Z 21 Mar 2010 in san diego, it was -17.5 C at 20,000'...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#86. To: FormerLurker (#82)
#87. To: groundresonance (#86)
since i have better things to do than babysit you, i'm gonna let you go.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#88. To: All (#86)
(Edited)
#89. To: groundresonance (#88)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#90. To: groundresonance (#88)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#91. To: groundresonance (#86)
it's becoming obvious that you have no interest at all in doing your homework.
#92. To: RickyJ (#91)
FYI, Lurker thinks aliens ships are in very close orbit around the Sun. Some people are just plain nuts.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#93. To: RickyJ (#91)
Some people are just plain nuts.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#94. To: groundresonance, christine (#88)
die kill ~~ Me
#95. To: RickyJ (#91)
FYI, Lurker thinks aliens ships are in very close orbit around the Sun. Some people are just plain nuts.
die kill ~~ Me
#96. To: PSUSA (#94)
(Edited)
Do you think the earths rotation would have anything to do with these contrail patterns?
Moving objects on the surface of the Earth experience a Coriolis force, and appear to veer to the right in the northern hemisphere, and to the left in the southern. Exactly on the equator, motion east or west, remains (precariously) along the line of the equator.
#97. To: groundresonance (#96)
die kill ~~ Me
#98. To: PSUSA (#97)
(Edited)
The planes fly over the same ground, but not through the same atmosphere since the earth and the atmosphere are more or less independent.
#99. To: groundresonance, (#98)
the independence of the earth from its atmosphere is measured as wind velocity.
die kill ~~ Me
#100. To: PSUSA (#99)
It's an interesting science.
#101. To: groundresonance (#100)
die kill ~~ Me
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