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Title: Arizona immigration law could drive (Illegal Alien) Latinos out of state
Source:
The Arizona Republic
URL Source: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep ... -migrants-leaving-arizona.html
Published: Apr 28, 2010
Author: Daniel González
Post Date: 2010-04-28 04:28:01 by hondo68
Keywords: Illegal, Alien, Invader, Criminals
Views: 3935
Comments: 295
Adriana Miranda leaned against the door frame and started to sob. Her husband hasn't found steady work in a year. Then, on Friday, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the tough anti-illegal-immigration law that will allow police to arrest illegal immigrants like her. It was the last straw. After seven years in Arizona, the family was moving. "Yesterday, we sold our trailer," Miranda, 38, said between sobs. "We don't know exactly where. Another state." Miranda is not alone. More than 100,000 undocumented immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years because of the bad economy and earlier enforcement crackdowns. Now, a new wave of Latinos is preparing to leave. And it isn't just illegal immigrants: Legal residents and U.S. citizens also say they will leave Arizona because they view the state as unfriendly to Hispanics. Arizona's new immigration law is not so much about using local police to round up and deport as many of the estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in the state as possible, said state Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, it's about creating so much fear they will leave on their own. The strategy is known as "attrition through enforcement," and it is a factor behind every one of the anti-illegal-immigration laws passed so far, said Kavanagh, a main supporter of the bill and a criminal-justice professor at Scottsdale Community College. "That means that rather than conducting large-scale active roundups of illegal immigrants, our intention is to make Arizona a very uncomfortable place for them to be so they leave or never come here in the first place," he said. "So, rather than massive deportations, we are basically going to encourage them to leave on their own." When that happens, he said, crime and taxes will go down. But Kavanagh said he is worried about legal immigrants and U.S. citizens also leaving. "I'm concerned about legal residents who are unnecessarily leaving the state because they have bought into a lot of the misinformation about this bill," Kavanagh said. Phoenix resident Javier Collazo, 18, a U.S. citizen who was born in California, said he is worried police may question him about his immigration status because of his appearance. He is also worried that he could be arrested under a provision of the law that makes it a crime to transport undocumented immigrants. His in-laws are undocumented, and so are several of his friends. Kavanagh said legal residents and U.S. citizens have nothing to worry about. The law strictly prohibits racial profiling. And the transporting provision is aimed at human smugglers and other criminals, not people giving rides to undocumented relatives, he said. "They should know that it prohibits racial profiling," Kavanagh said. "They should know that if they are transporting someone, even if they know the person is illegal, as long as they are not doing a separate illegal act, they are not going to get into trouble. They also should know that once by attrition or by enforcement we significantly reduce the number of illegals in this state, taxes are going to go down and crime is going to go down. So, it will be a better place to live for everybody." How many Latinos may leave Arizona is unknown. But the state's economy, which has hit Latinos disproportionately hard, combined with the new law, has made living in Arizona intolerable, many Hispanics said this week. The new law makes it a state crime to be in the country without legal papers and lets police question people about their immigration status if officers have reasonable suspicion they are in the country illegally. An anti-smuggling provision makes it a crime to knowingly transport illegal immigrants. Some immigrants said they are waiting to see if the law survives legal challenges before making a final decision. Others, like Miranda, are already packing their bags. Many said they will move to another state. Few said they will return to Mexico. Not just illegal immigrants are leaving, and the sudden loss of large numbers of people could hurt the state's already dismal economy. José Mendez, an economics professor at the W.P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State University, said the state's economic recovery could be hampered by the large-scale loss of workers. While wages may rise, the price of services "will definitely be higher," he said. Businesses, especially small ones that rely on those workers, will have a hard time expanding, Mendez added. There may also be a loss of sales-tax revenue and even property-tax revenue, he said. "They pay taxes every time they buy food at the 7-Eleven or when they buy gasoline," he said. Mendez also said that, in the short term, undocumented immigrants tend to be a drain on public services because they have low-paying jobs and therefore pay little income taxes. But, in the long run, their U.S.-born children tend to offset those costs through higher-paying jobs and higher taxes. "So on net, when you take those two, empirical studies have shown, they pay more in taxes than the value of services they receive," Mendez said. State Sen. Richard Miranda, D-Tolleson, said the large-scale loss of people could hurt already fragile communities. "It could destabilize neighborhoods," he said. Miranda said he spent 2 1/2 hours Saturday walking through largely Latino neighborhoods in Maryvale and west Phoenix. He said he met Latinos, Sikhs, Hindus, Filipinos and other people of color, the majority of them U.S. citizens. "They are all really concerned about the new law," he said. "The stress and intimidation makes people fearful." Phoenix resident Adamaris, a 22-year-old undocumented immigrant from Mexico, said she thinks many illegal immigrants will leave Arizona. "The economy is already bad here, and now with this new law ...," she said. "No, we don't want to stay here." Adamaris, who asked that her last name not be used because she is afraid of being deported, said she plans to wait two months to see if the law survives legal challenges before deciding whether to leave. Glendale resident John Zavala, 32, was born in Mexico City but has lived in the United States most of his life. He is a legal resident of the United States and moved from Chicago to Phoenix in 2003 because he liked the weather. But Zavala said he thinks the political climate in the state has turned inhospitable toward Latinos. If the hostility continues, Zavala said, he will leave Arizona. "I always carry my green card," said Zavala, a computer-network analyst. "Until this point, I've never had to use it. But from now on, I guess I will."
Adriana Miranda, an undocumented immigrant, tearfully says she's leaving Arizona.
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#147. To: Ferret (#144)
I wont, read beyond that part Mike. It would be futile. We are all human. In a desire for civil, polite discourse, I never bozo anyone. Having been reading Mike for ten years or more, it is difficult to understand how so many of us are always wrong, and have NO RIGHT to take a stand for a future for our race/culture.
Read my last post to Cyni above this one. I have always lamented the destruction of the people that were native to 'America.' And I am a devout student of karma. And when I see people rending their hair and clothes complete with screams and hollering about injustice as some of the same medicine they dished out on others is returned to them, like a spoon of Castor oil given to a sick child. I see people that need to shut up, take a dose of their own medicine and to try to learn from the experience. I am consistent on my views on immigration; as they are no different now then when I was banned from liberty Post for them.
Some 'o these flakes that live in Cloud Cuckoo Land in the Drippy Northwest over-populated by "nasty drab boring boring boring" Euros should move to exciting Juarez and experience what the rest of our nation is slowly turning into. It would be a special treat for Vietnam-era vets whose gun fighting skills have become a little rusty over the years.
I see psyops everywhere.
Every person I've heard utter that phrase, in reference to the suffering or bad that happens to others, turns out to be somebody who takes joy in the suffering of innocents. The people who did the "crimes" you speak of, and the people they perpetrated them against, are long long dead and turned to dust. You seem to lust for the suffering of innocent people as some kind of comeuppance for crimes you've never seen perpetrated done by people who no longer exist. In essence, you embody the very notion of collectivism by holding a "group" guilty for the sins of some in the group long, long ago. You, like Obama, may wish for dissenters to sit down and shut up, but the genie is out of the bottle now. You don't get to dictate what we should do any longer, and the pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo now has a market value of 0.00 when it comes to intimidation.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
It would be a special treat for Vietnam-era vets whose gun fighting skills have become a little rusty over the years. Seriously. And what in the hell is wrong with our Anglo/Celtic system of common law, rights, culture and expression anyway that it is somehow "boring boring boring"? What we have here represents the very last remnants of a very large and diverse set of cultures that produced a system of rights and freedom that brought humanity forward more in 300 years than the previous combined 20,000+ years of human history was able to. I strongly suspect that those who cry and moan about Western culture and its adherents fantasize about a return to pounding clothes in disease infested rivers, with them at the top of the pig pile as some kind of God-King.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
There is not a thing wrong with cherishing one's culture and defending it. But this should never involve attacking and trying to destroy that of other people. And in thst equation, one is always going to create conflict and drive oneself crazy if one does not recognize that as nice as one's culture was and is, it never lives in a vacuum and is always evolving and changing. And whether it involves people like the Romans adopting the Greek panthion of pagan gods, Christianity coming to Ireland, American kids learning Japanese martial arts, or a million other things, cultures always adopt affectations, ideas, and concepts from others. And when you get a mix of people like we have currently in the United States, eventually we defuse into a unified culture that looks, sounds and acts the same. My instincts and intuition say we will survive as a nation and people and will e around for at least a few more hundred years. And those Americans will look and act differently then we do as racially and culturally we meld together. Change scares people and it should be done carefully and the values and good things of the past should always be learned from, honored and taught. Change, defusion, and other aspects of physics apply to us as well as anything else in the universe. And one can rant, rave and try to defeat them in a valiant joist against a windmill. But sooner or later one is going to have to stop and realize that there are realities that are fundamental such as the laws of physics and trying to make things live in a perfect vacuum of preventing change is not going to happen.
How does the Atzlan movement fit into your statement's intents? Straw man, nobody I know of doesn't recognize that culture changes. Straw man. Being against illegal immigration isn't standing in defiance of physics. It's a political question, not a physics question. Straw man (ibid). Nobody is suggesting static unmoving culture. What is being suggested is that illegal immigration is by definition *illegal* and to allow tens of millions of people to get a pass on a highly illegal act, and to allow them to ferret into the system such that they suck out the resources without contributing to its upkeep, is wrong on a myriad of levels, it is fully and unquestionably theft It has nothing to do with physics and loosely implied references to a cultural Heisenberg principle are fully off base. I dig hispanic culture, for the most part. It too is a European based culture (gasp! boring boring boring!) with influences of AmerInd culture in it, it values family, hard work and being a good neighbor and I'm fully happy with those things. What I, and others, are not terribly happy with are the drug running very dangerous gangs, kidnappers, social welfare leeches and layabouts. If they were being imported directly from Ireland and were doing these things, people here would *still* have a problem with it. In fact, if we examine history, folks were very mad at the Irish who did this in the 19th century. Strange but true. Until you recognize that your view is crafted to fit your preconceived notions and disallows any reasons other than those you've already accepted, you'll continue to be both confused and confronted. Granted, there are some pretty sad elements on 4um who are racists. That said, that doesn't make your arguments valid. The time of PC intimidation is past. It was the pushing of PC intimidation for the last 20 years that has caused the threat you see now in front of you, that seems to be monolithic and impervious to your arguments. Without the value of PC intimidation for you, you're faced with not only principled opponents of illegal immigration, you're also faced with the spectre of some of the uglier aspects of humanity staring you in the eye and not backing down. You overplayed the PC intimidation card, and now hell is about to be paid. Welcome to the world that people like you helped create.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Cause and effect; what goes on today involves realities their actions created. n that sense, they are very much still around. So if we do not learn from their injustices and errors, we are doomed to repeat them. Not to mention some of the bad is like a string of dominos falling. The bad created can be decreased and even stopped by removing a couple of dominos from the chain. Making amends and or being accountable for the bad things those long dead people did that effect us today can reduce and even end the wrongs and ad things they did. I would say that it is fine to value one's cultural and ethnic heritage aqnd wanting it to live on; but to then say that the bad those cultures did is dead and gone so forget about it smells suspiciously like bipolar disorder on a macro scale. You are not going to create health by living on the candy of the good in past cultural heritage by avoiding the meat and potatoes of the bad one should learn from and even in ways atone for. You can't say, "My culture needs to live on, remember sacred ancestors!!!!!," and then say, "Oh, those people who did bad aare dead, forget about them." To do so just does not make any sense.
Then dig them up and make them pay. I'm not responsible for the sins of my grandfathers, and neither are you. Whomever guilt tripped you like this did you a real disservice. No question. Eliminate the war on drugs, first off, and I'd bet 50% of the problem would disappear over night (at least the violence). Eliminate social welfare as much as possible and make what little is available, available only to those who are citizens here, and the other half is solved. The drug runners/gangs would be deprived of their profits and move on, the social welfare leeches would have nothing to leech and move on, leaving only the hard working, decent folks whom I'd have zero problem giving a fast pass through the immigration system. No, that is entirely off base. You will not buy off a population of entitlement raised individuals by giving them entitlements. History shows again and again that they'll simply declare "not enough!" and be back with their hands out. You people on the left need to learn this. Straw man. Who is ignoring the bad? It's readily admitted. But, if one does not take the collectivist route, one is forced to say "what's done is done, and we didn't do it, long dead people did, let's move forward". There is no such thing as collective guilt. The Euro culture that exists today in America is a work in progress, and is a distilled version that has in fact rejected much (not all) of the bad (slavery, oppression, selective rights) while trying to enhance the good it inherited (however imperfectly). I'm happy with that. Straw man. Nobody is denying past transgressions. See paragraph above. You do not get to assign guilt to me for something people 200 years ago did. Sorry. It doesn't fly any longer. If you wish to wring your hands in pain and anguish over what your grandfather Zebadiah did, that's your prerogative, but you do not get to mandate to me to do the same. That time has passed. Your argument would be more interesting if it wasn't a series of straw men that you keep setting up and knocking down. Debate me, instead of the demons you fabricate in your head, and we'll communicate better.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Here is the creator of the Community Media Center in Eugene. You may have talked with him on Liberty Post as RaisedEyeBrows when we both sat up there in that office posting there. He was loved, he is missed.
And here is Cop Watch videographer Tim Lewis who creates 'Picture Eugene' videos. Micah is the banana doing the painting, and just one of them stupid "tree hugging vermin," pay him no mind. (Unless he's alone with yer daughter and a half rack of PBR and some kind bud of course.) Tim and I have been arrested working Cop Watch and he's a scream of a great guy. Why post these to ya? Well, it gives you an accurate taste of what kind of subset of the greater Eugene, Oregon community am proud to belong to. ARGH!
Mike... I agree with that generalization, however there is one caveat, when change comes at the...EXPENSE... of others, there is no justification for demanding such change.
Cause and effect; what goes on today involves realities their actions created. n that sense, they are very much still around. So if we do not learn from their injustices and errors, we are doomed to repeat them. . . . To do so just does not make any sense. It's you, Mike, that's not making sense. Whatever unjust conditions may have obtained in the past cannot be remedied by acceptance of the anarchic conditions that exist along our borders and the attendant bleed over of the narco-crime wave engulfing a thoroughly corrupt Mexico to our south. You cannot make amends by enabling a nation like Mexico, a country with the world's highest proportion of billionaires where many of the inhabitants live in want, by providing that nation with an economic and political steam valve and depriving it of the motivation to better itself. You can if you will, Mike, try to make amends by offering YOUR job to a willing Mexican job seeker, but don't ask an American who's looking for entry-level work or a labor job to do the same. It just isn't right, and an overwhelming number of Americans know that it is not.
I see psyops everywhere.
Oh, I get it. You hate the Europeans for taking over this country. You're one of those self-loathing, humans are destroying mother earth types. It's all so very clear to me now. Apparently the kool-aid you drank was the extra special kind, because this whole conquest of the Americas, has been happening for millenia. People have moved all over the earth, cultures rise and fall. Our culture and our nation has been destroyed from within, because of people who think the same way you do. Your kind of thinking is a malignant cancer that destroys the very soul of a nation. It's unfortunate that you can't see your own treason.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
Well then geez Dr. Science, then the immigration wave into the Gadsden Purchase (known as Venta de La Mesilla, or "Sale of La Mesilla" in Mexico, where the southern part of Arizona is, and was related to reconciliation of outstanding border issues following the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo, which ended the Mexican-American War of 1846–48 is just more of the same, as the ancestors of the people that land was taken from move into old turf looking to make a better life for themselves. Gee, thanks for 'splaining history to an ignorant, no nothing 'bout history dude like me. <./sarcasm>
I am worried for you, Mike. I think while you played with trees and cavorted with all kinds of folks you missed a professional career. And, in the process you think illegals have as much a right to be in the US as we are. I have heard illegal immigrants are the first in line receiving government benefits .... have you observed that?
"Sarah "Kiss my Torah" Palin" -- Jethro Tull, circa 2010-04-14
lol......that's too funny Buck. Thanks for the laughs. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I see people that need to shut up, take a dose of their own medicine and to try to learn from the experience. If you truly were a student of karma, then you would understand and accept that precisely what you deem wrong with other people is what is wrong with you. That's a basic in karma--your attention is given to what you must correct and restore in your own karmic reckoning.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Do all of these burned out druggie friends of yours have something to do with illegal aliens? They employ guest workers in their "green" meth labs, or as crank salesmen, or what?
Then every illegal that STEALS the identity of a close matching profile is a BIGOT and a criminal too boot. Why don't you apply your logic in racial profiling to victims of identity theft Mike? Most illegals acquire the social standing that you sepeak of by STEALING the identity of an American citizen......bigots, eh?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I think they are used to harvest the green weed grown in the back hills.
"Sarah "Kiss my Torah" Palin" -- Jethro Tull, circa 2010-04-14
Someone using another person's SS # is an opportunist. They would likely use a Latino/Latina's number who is a citizen as much as one belonging to anyine else. You knew that of course, unless you are really mud dumb. Saying that to bait is just generic dumb, which would cover you nicely.
I was addressing them to Buck in response to him sharing stuff from here he looked up, Amiga.
Why great balls of fire Buck; I am a branch manager. It doesn't get much better then that.
I served in the U.S. Army for nine years; and your DD form 214 says you served how long?
I was a reforestation worker for 12 years, and was displaced from that position by Mexican immigrants. In the years leading up to me losing my job, my wage dropped drastically because of them. Been there, done that. Sure I have been angry at them over that; but I am smart enough to see that it was others who used them to make a buck by enticing them to come in and win contracts as the lowest bidder because they knew they would work for piss por wages. Those same opportunists want people to scarp with illegal immigrants to distract attention from them and their greed. Myself, I stay focused on being angry at them.
What? Using? Why not STEALING, Mike? That is what they are doing--STEALING identities so that they can work without hassle. So, it's okay to racially profile for a good mark to STEAL an identity? That's okay with you, eh? What you are saying is that racial profiling is OKAY FOR ILLEGALS while they are STEALING identities, but WAY WRONG for anybody else. So you don't like what I have to say and you think it is okay to call me "mud dumb" for disagreeing with your lack of logic. Good karma, Mike. lol Just because you know that you have no LOGIC or REASON to offer in a discussion, doesn't give you the right to insult and belittle in lieu of intelligent discourse. In fact, I often hear you whining something to that effect to other posters when they call you names. Oh, but it's okay for YOU, just like it's okay for ILLEGALS TO STEAL and conduct RACIAL PROFILING.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
And I said they were not wrong in what they were doing by what? Because I didn't use your favorite word for it? Poor baby, my heart bleeds for you. I don't go on the defensive because favorite words are not used to express myself. I already mentioned I am the victim of identity theft and served time in jail over it before it was cleared up. So if you think i like any ID theft, up yours'.
Read it again, hero; I said genetic dumb; gave you the benefit of doubt that you might not be mud dumb. But if you can't comprehend and got it wrong, what can I say; you MUST be mud dumb. There, that better? You know me, always willing to please.
All society boils down to is the question of who has more right to each of our property. I keep saying We Do but always get drowned out, then I come here.
“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft
I do know that the Social Security Administration has increased security and when you get a job they check it now. This is a good thing. No one should use someone's number to get hired. That is fraud.
Going for that great karma.........lol. Nice dodge on the STEALING of identities too. Diversion by insult--how original. It's okay for illegals to steal because it's good karma. Oh, and racial profiling for a good match to STEAL is good karma too. Yes, you sure are an astute student of karma. Why, you really should be a karma instructor with your emmense knowledge on the subject. /sarc
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"Sarah "Kiss my Torah" Palin" -- Jethro Tull, circa 2010-04-14
Where's the substance? Oh, we are all supposed to cry--sniff, sniff--because Mike has been the "victim" of so many crimes. Yes, and you went to jail. But, it's okay for illegals because they are just "using" another person's identity. Maybe your identity wasn't stolen at all, maybe it was just "used" by somebody else. An asute student of karma would say that you are getting EXACTLY what you have given, no more no less, but, of course, one would have to actually have an iota of knowledge about the concept of karma to grasp that epiphany.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you talking to yourself, or babbling at me? Sometimes with you, it's immensely hard to determine this.
Thank Odin TSA is on the ball, eh? You familiar with the purple Montego of Eugene?
“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft
Was that insult supposed to leave a mark.........you missed. lol Try again. Try IMMENSELY hard. Might I suggest that you launder your karma, rather than creating more dirty deeds that will continue the cycle of "victimhood" and jail time, not to mention the incessant whining over all of your "bad luck" that just happens to, for NO REASON at all, befall on such an astute student of karma.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
It was used by someone else, and this use was fraud. And your point is...? I also would say I am lucky in that I don't ever use credit cards and I don't consider myself victimized by a whole lot of crime. That is your spin. I did foolishly leave my wallet on the counter at the bank, so I'm sure that there is a lesson in karma there somewhere. And I'm sure that you will entertain me further with exactly how this is so. ;-D
What a double-butt-ugly loser and I'm sure that's his best pic If you put a hat on a Baboon's butt, he could cash weasel's welfare checks ROTFLMAO at the butt-faced weasel
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Mike, your post is right here on this thread detailing all your episodes as a "victim" of crimes. yawn. And it's not the first time we have all heard the endless episode repeating ad nauseum here at 4um. It's a regular re-run. It's not my spin at all........victimhood is your gig, not mine. You see, I believe in karma, which negates ANY notion of victim. That's your basic Karma 101. Of course, illegals and Mike are not, in any way, responsible for any ill treatment that comes their way. And, the illegals and the person who "stole" your identity were just "using" an identity, not stealing or creating any bad karma whatsoever, according to your logic.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What is fraud, Mike? You said the illeglas were just "using" the identity of a person, who fits a close racial profile to their own, to work. Somehow this is not racial profiling, according to your logic, which again makes no sense. But, wait, did you say that the person who "stole" your identity is in a different catagory than an illegal "using" an identity? If it happens to YOU it is theft, but if it happens to somebody else it is just "using" an identiy? You have an obvious error in logic on your part, Mike. You are very selective in what is "stealing" and what is "using" when it comes to identity theft.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI am human,
#148. To: buckeroo (#139)
"I am beginning to distrust you, Mike. You would defend a tree and you would defend illegals. There is something ironic with the way you consider the world .... but you won't defend PEOPLE that are native to America."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#149. To: SonOfLiberty (#146)
#150. To: Ferret (#148)
And I am a devout student of karma.
#151. To: randge (#149)
Some 'o these flakes that live in Cloud Cuckoo Land in the Drippy Northwest over-populated by "nasty drab boring boring boring" Euros should move to exciting Juarez and experience what the rest of our nation is slowly turning into.
#152. To: Cynicom (#147)
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#153. To: Ferret (#152)
(Edited)
There is not a thing wrong with cherishing one's culture and defending it. But this should never involve attacking and trying to destroy that of other people.
And in thst equation, one is always going to create conflict and drive oneself crazy if one does not recognize that as nice as one's culture was and is, it never lives in a vacuum and is always evolving and changing.
Change, defusion, and other aspects of physics apply to us as well as anything else in the universe. And one can rant, rave and try to defeat them in a valiant joist against a windmill.
But sooner or later one is going to have to stop and realize that there are realities that are fundamental such as the laws of physics and trying to make things live in a perfect vacuum of preventing change is not going to happen.
#154. To: SonOfLiberty (#150)
"The people who did the "crimes" you speak of, and the people they perpetrated them against, are long long dead and turned to dust."
TEXT DOLPHIN To 44144
#155. To: Ferret (#154)
Cause and effect; what goes on today involves realities their actions created. n that sense, they are very much still around.
The bad created can be decreased and even stopped by removing a couple of dominos from the chain.
Making amends and or being accountable for the bad things those long dead people did that effect us today can reduce and even end the wrongs and ad things they did.
I would say that it is fine to value one's cultural and ethnic heritage aqnd wanting it to live on; but to then say that the bad those cultures did is dead and gone so forget about it smells suspiciously like bipolar disorder on a macro scale.
You are not going to create health by living on the candy of the good in past cultural heritage by avoiding the meat and potatoes of the bad one should learn from and even in ways atone for. You can't say, "My culture needs to live on, remember sacred ancestors!!!!!," and then say, "Oh, those people who did bad aare dead, forget about them."
#156. To: buckeroo (#139)
(Edited)
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#157. To: buckeroo (#139)
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#158. To: Ferret (#152)
But sooner or later one is going to have to stop and realize that there are realities that are fundamental such as the laws of physics and trying to make things live in a perfect vacuum of preventing change is not going to happen.
#159. To: Ferret (#154)
"The people who did the "crimes" you speak of, and the people they perpetrated them against, are long long dead and turned to dust."
#160. To: Ferret (#145)
#161. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#160)
"...because this whole conquest of the Americas, has been happening for millenia.People have moved all over the earth, cultures rise and fall. Our culture and our nation has been destroyed from within, because of people who think the same way you do."
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#162. To: Ferret (#157)
Why post these to ya? Well, it gives you an accurate taste of what kind of subset of the greater Eugene, Oregon community am proud to belong to. ARGH!
#163. To: buckeroo (#92)
#164. To: Ferret (#148)
I am a devout student of karma.
#165. To: Ferret (#156)
My joy over McCain's defeat, is offset by my disappointment over hObama's victory.
#166. To: Ferret (#133)
If you use race or ethnic background to steal the social standing and well being of an individual or group of people, you are being a bigot.
#167. To: hondo68 (#165)
#168. To: abraxas (#166)
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#169. To: hondo68 (#165)
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#170. To: buckeroo (#162)
"I am worried for you, Mike. I think while you played with trees and cavorted with all kinds of folks you missed a professional career. And, in the process you think illegals have as much a right to be in the US as we are."
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#171. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#160)
"It's unfortunate that you can't see your own treason."
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#172. To: randge (#159)
"You can if you will, Mike, try to make amends by offering YOUR job to a willing Mexican job seeker, but don't ask an American who's looking for entry-level work or a labor job to do the same. It just isn't right, and an overwhelming number of Americans know that it is not."
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#173. To: Ferret (#168)
Someone using another person's SS # is an opportunist.
#174. To: abraxas (#173)
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#175. To: abraxas (#173)
"So you don't like what I have to say and you think it is okay to call me "mud dumb" for disagreeing with your lack of logic."
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#176. To: abraxas, Ferret Mike (#173)
So, it's okay to racially profile for a good mark to STEAL an identity? That's okay with you, eh?
#177. To: Dakmar (#176)
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#178. To: Ferret (#175)
#179. To: Ferret (#170)
Why great balls of fire Buck; I am a branch manager. It doesn't get much better then that.
#180. To: Ferret (#174)
#181. To: abraxas (#178)
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#182. To: Ferret (#177)
I do know that the Social Security Administration has increased security and when you get a job they check it now. This is a good thing. No one should use someone's number to get hired. That is fraud.
#183. To: Ferret (#181)
#184. To: abraxas (#180)
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#185. To: buckeroo, Mikey, the Butt-Faced weasel (#179)
(Edited)
#186. To: Ferret (#184)
I also would say I am lucky in that I don't ever use credit cards and I don't consider myself victimized by a whole lot of crime. That is your spin.
#187. To: Ferret (#184)
(Edited)
It was used by someone else, and this use was fraud.
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