See other Immigration Articles
Title: Arizona immigration law could drive (Illegal Alien) Latinos out of state
Source:
The Arizona Republic
URL Source: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep ... -migrants-leaving-arizona.html
Published: Apr 28, 2010
Author: Daniel González
Post Date: 2010-04-28 04:28:01 by hondo68
Keywords: Illegal, Alien, Invader, Criminals
Views: 3551
Comments: 295
Adriana Miranda leaned against the door frame and started to sob. Her husband hasn't found steady work in a year. Then, on Friday, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the tough anti-illegal-immigration law that will allow police to arrest illegal immigrants like her. It was the last straw. After seven years in Arizona, the family was moving. "Yesterday, we sold our trailer," Miranda, 38, said between sobs. "We don't know exactly where. Another state." Miranda is not alone. More than 100,000 undocumented immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years because of the bad economy and earlier enforcement crackdowns. Now, a new wave of Latinos is preparing to leave. And it isn't just illegal immigrants: Legal residents and U.S. citizens also say they will leave Arizona because they view the state as unfriendly to Hispanics. Arizona's new immigration law is not so much about using local police to round up and deport as many of the estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in the state as possible, said state Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, it's about creating so much fear they will leave on their own. The strategy is known as "attrition through enforcement," and it is a factor behind every one of the anti-illegal-immigration laws passed so far, said Kavanagh, a main supporter of the bill and a criminal-justice professor at Scottsdale Community College. "That means that rather than conducting large-scale active roundups of illegal immigrants, our intention is to make Arizona a very uncomfortable place for them to be so they leave or never come here in the first place," he said. "So, rather than massive deportations, we are basically going to encourage them to leave on their own." When that happens, he said, crime and taxes will go down. But Kavanagh said he is worried about legal immigrants and U.S. citizens also leaving. "I'm concerned about legal residents who are unnecessarily leaving the state because they have bought into a lot of the misinformation about this bill," Kavanagh said. Phoenix resident Javier Collazo, 18, a U.S. citizen who was born in California, said he is worried police may question him about his immigration status because of his appearance. He is also worried that he could be arrested under a provision of the law that makes it a crime to transport undocumented immigrants. His in-laws are undocumented, and so are several of his friends. Kavanagh said legal residents and U.S. citizens have nothing to worry about. The law strictly prohibits racial profiling. And the transporting provision is aimed at human smugglers and other criminals, not people giving rides to undocumented relatives, he said. "They should know that it prohibits racial profiling," Kavanagh said. "They should know that if they are transporting someone, even if they know the person is illegal, as long as they are not doing a separate illegal act, they are not going to get into trouble. They also should know that once by attrition or by enforcement we significantly reduce the number of illegals in this state, taxes are going to go down and crime is going to go down. So, it will be a better place to live for everybody." How many Latinos may leave Arizona is unknown. But the state's economy, which has hit Latinos disproportionately hard, combined with the new law, has made living in Arizona intolerable, many Hispanics said this week. The new law makes it a state crime to be in the country without legal papers and lets police question people about their immigration status if officers have reasonable suspicion they are in the country illegally. An anti-smuggling provision makes it a crime to knowingly transport illegal immigrants. Some immigrants said they are waiting to see if the law survives legal challenges before making a final decision. Others, like Miranda, are already packing their bags. Many said they will move to another state. Few said they will return to Mexico. Not just illegal immigrants are leaving, and the sudden loss of large numbers of people could hurt the state's already dismal economy. José Mendez, an economics professor at the W.P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State University, said the state's economic recovery could be hampered by the large-scale loss of workers. While wages may rise, the price of services "will definitely be higher," he said. Businesses, especially small ones that rely on those workers, will have a hard time expanding, Mendez added. There may also be a loss of sales-tax revenue and even property-tax revenue, he said. "They pay taxes every time they buy food at the 7-Eleven or when they buy gasoline," he said. Mendez also said that, in the short term, undocumented immigrants tend to be a drain on public services because they have low-paying jobs and therefore pay little income taxes. But, in the long run, their U.S.-born children tend to offset those costs through higher-paying jobs and higher taxes. "So on net, when you take those two, empirical studies have shown, they pay more in taxes than the value of services they receive," Mendez said. State Sen. Richard Miranda, D-Tolleson, said the large-scale loss of people could hurt already fragile communities. "It could destabilize neighborhoods," he said. Miranda said he spent 2 1/2 hours Saturday walking through largely Latino neighborhoods in Maryvale and west Phoenix. He said he met Latinos, Sikhs, Hindus, Filipinos and other people of color, the majority of them U.S. citizens. "They are all really concerned about the new law," he said. "The stress and intimidation makes people fearful." Phoenix resident Adamaris, a 22-year-old undocumented immigrant from Mexico, said she thinks many illegal immigrants will leave Arizona. "The economy is already bad here, and now with this new law ...," she said. "No, we don't want to stay here." Adamaris, who asked that her last name not be used because she is afraid of being deported, said she plans to wait two months to see if the law survives legal challenges before deciding whether to leave. Glendale resident John Zavala, 32, was born in Mexico City but has lived in the United States most of his life. He is a legal resident of the United States and moved from Chicago to Phoenix in 2003 because he liked the weather. But Zavala said he thinks the political climate in the state has turned inhospitable toward Latinos. If the hostility continues, Zavala said, he will leave Arizona. "I always carry my green card," said Zavala, a computer-network analyst. "Until this point, I've never had to use it. But from now on, I guess I will."
Adriana Miranda, an undocumented immigrant, tearfully says she's leaving Arizona.
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#195. To: abraxas (#194)
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I made no value judgment on one incident over another. You can try all you want to read tea leaves in my word choice, but in the end you are dealing with your opinion and subjective judgment. I really don't care what one post looks like to you over another. To me, all incidents of misappropriation of ID is bad. I like the Democratic proposal just made that includes a proposal for a Social Security card containing a biometric chip that all workers, including American citizens, would have to present to an employer when being hired. In this proposal, employers would be responsible for monitoring the immigration status of potential hires much more closely than they do now. Every employer would be required to use a new verification system, including a scanner at every business to confirm the validity of the Social Security cards of job applicants. I support stronger ID controls to end this problem. And I don't care how you want to try to interpret my words; all misuse of ID is bad. And as am no better then anyone else, it is not worse a thing to happen if it happens to me or someone else.
speaking of funny stuff---
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. What a great idea. The only problem I see is that some people might lose their card. How about we just implant the chip then we wont have to worry about it. /sarcasm off
I use illegal immigrant instead of illegal alien too. We could do several round of posts on this one much as we have done now, That word choice is a result of my capricious obstinacy over an equally dumb argument much like this one years ago at liberty Post. I don't mind if you want to do this again on that word choice. I am always patient and accommodating when entertained like this.
Hi Mike The sweat lodge is open here. The best blankets in the world are on sale here, Navajo. Got some sweet cedar wood lit. Apaches are friendly, Navajos are trading blankets, Tewas pottery onsale. I can get you top dollar for a Gatteling Gun with plenty of ammo. Tom
"Satan / Cheney in "08" An excellent post.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Heh, I do not support putting chips in anybody. But biometrics are a digital quantification of a picture allowing computers to recognize people. (And if I am wrong in my definition of this, I bet know who is out there who will immediately let me know I fudged my karma.) ;-D I am not against either a picture of a biometric measurement on the SS card.
You support police state legislation. It is a violation of the constitution too. 4th amendment. 10th and probably more.
They would have to have probable cause and a search warrant to get that info for the card. Or ignore the constitution.
Maybe it's because he is a hypocrite?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Sounds well. I am going out to a Native American sweat at a Native American cultural center in the Oregon Coastal range this weekend. You must have eaten enough pop corn reading this exchange to tune in on the aura of my intentions to let me know this. I enjoyed fighting forest fires with Apaches -- including one in Arizona, and I love the Diné/Navajo people. I wear turquoise jewlery, and have a Navajo blanket of high quality on my water bed. Thanks for sharing, I resonate with your post greatly, Earth First! ;-D
Well Stonie, thee piss test for drugs is illegal search and seizure too. But I don't expect to see that change any time soon because it is unconstitutional. but I have hopes it eventually will. The solution to this problem of illegal immigrants misusing ID, and other aspects of the issue is going to require a compromise that gives conservative advocacy on the issue something. I am willing to compromise to make an amnesty bill happen. That is the only way we are going to resolve this. I support this proposal, and if it passes, I am sure the SCOTUS will weigh in. Conservative advocacy on the issue is part of the dialog on this, and nothing will pass unless they get something in legislation too. And I am pragmatic enough in my old age not to have a cow over this. So it goes.
Heh, James is entertained by this thread too, that always pleases me when that happens. Even if he is way too excitable for his own good. ;-D
weasel Your welfare check is in the mail, you're happy about that aren't you? What a double-butt-ugly loser you are. I'm sure that's your best pic If you put a hat on a Baboon's butt it could cash your welfare check for you. ROTFLMAO at the butt-faced, welfare weasel
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Right........just like Reagan's amnesty solved the problem........oh wait...the problem actually GOT WORSE with 20 million illegals streaming over the border since the last SHAMnasty. If it didn't resolve ANYTHING last time and only made the problem WORSE, what's going to make it work this time Mike? What, pray tell, are YOU willing to compromise? Your identity? The illegals can USE yours so they won't have to STEAL one from somebody else. lol
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
LOL! Since when do illegal illiterates consider "legal challenges?" Say what? Give me a friggin' break. The left joynalists are free to adopt and raise on THEIR OWN DIME as many illegals as their personal bank accounts can float. But not on my dime. Out with illegals and in with law and order and melting pot regulated legal immigration, IF we think we need any, considering our high levels of UNEMPLOYMENT.
Thanks. I notice Mike kinda fled from any replies. In fact, I tend to notice most progressive types tend to flee once they realize that their appeal to guilt no longer works. And logic probably has something to do with it as well I suppose. Or maybe it's my minty fresh breath that repels them. Who knows?
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
I honestly wish you hadn't let me know that you're female. For real. Please tell me that you're ugly so that I won't be attracted to you. It's amazing how utterly adle brained these progressives are. Not the leadership, they're just pure evil and know what they're doing, but rather the mob that follow them.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
You're not AmerInd, you have zero clue about AmerInd culture outside of bogus forked tongue crap and you have no access to a gatteling gun. Get real.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
....born in Hawaii? Suuuuure he was. Why would his campaign workers tell a reporter something different? The Standard didn't just make this up, nor did Obama demand a retraction or correction of the above article.
To all the skeptics out there, here is one inescapable fact. There was a Barack Hussein Obama born in Kenya. He is the father of your president. He was a black man from black Africa. The name and the person Barack Hussein Obama Sr, came from a sleepy village in Kenya called Nyang’oma Kogelo. And here is another inescapable truth: the fact that Barack Hussein Obama Jr was born in Hawaii has already been proved beyond doubt by your own government. He is a US citizen. His election a year ago and his popularity around the world baffled many Americans but the fact remains he is entitled to be president. Get over it, you conspiracy theorists and people of dubious intelligence who cannot accept your country is led by a person of African descent. Obama has been examined under your microscope for at least two years. If there was proof to the contrary, wouldn’t you have found it by now? what's up with this? this lady's editors should have spotted this horrible error.
Maybe, if he was born in Hawaii, and you chose to ignore the 14th amendment. But, the US Constitution requires not just a US citizen but a "natural born citizen", which he can never be because his father was a British subject at the time of Jr's birth, as stated in the article. Regardless of his place of birth, he's a USURPER.
you better get on the hotline to goldman sachs and tell them their boy is a ringer, hadnt you?
Suuuure, it happens all the time, American born senators are wrongfully reported as being foreign born. As I said, there was no correction and you can be sure that Obama and his people saw the article. He spent 2 mil to make sure he never had to answer questions about that article in court. And we all know that HI allowed his mommy to register his birth up to a year after with no verification required, and the reasons for that policy. (to allow Japanese and other foreign born Hawaiians to claim American citizenship for several reasons, including the purpose of skewing elections against corporate interests and "Haoles" and in favor of a non white plurality, regardless of their actual country of birth.) When the state allowed births to be registered for up to a year with no supporting documentation it was clearly pursuing an agenda other than accurate birth records. And, a recently printed copy of his birth cert is no more proof of anything than a phony social security card printed for mafiosi in The Witness Relocation/Protection Program. Particularly in the one state that blatantly assumed the power to confer "natural born citizenship" upon "foreign born residents". Also, Obama refuses to explain just what type of passport he traveled under when visiting Pakistan, and he has yet to explain why all of his school records have been sealed, why he wrote no thesis unlike every other candidate offered a full law professorship, etc.,. You keep pretending that there aren't multiple reasons to question his obviously shady background and trying to ricochet me away with insults about my intelligence while amply demonstrating your own flawed mental processes. Besides, it isn't for the benefit of blow jobber groupies that I post this. (It's safe to assume that Larry Sinclair wasn't Barry's only supplier of cocaine and BJs, and not all of them wish to expose or otherwise harm him. You may be the proof of that and fear exposure as much as Obama) And by the way, newspapers don't get the countries of origin of US Senate hopefuls wrong, especially when they're printing favorable fluff pieces in support of the candidates. (Fact checking is essential and the candidate must be available to the press if he or she wants to win) It's never happened before or since and Comrade Obama is the solitary "victim of record", the one record he and his cronies and lickspittles don't mind producing....
dont whine at me. whine at goldman sachs and the rest of these people... University of California $1,591,395
do you honestly think you're gonna get any traction when the powers have invested a third of a billion dollars on installing this guy? Coded $284,930,288 (73%) ....Uncoded $103,353,467 (27%) ....Total $388,283,755
by the way, if you're getting tired of posting that jpg or whatever it is of the nairobi standard story, here's the archived url... i mean, it looks kinda cheesy when you post that jpg without any backup. . here's the masthead... you could maybe make up a story, make a jpg out of it, and post it as evidence... US PRESIDENT OBAMA'S KENYAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE SURFACES IN NAIROBI HOSPITAL forgotten drawer of dirty socks yields prize document etc etc etc
And maybe, since he is so kind-hearted for the illegal aliens, he could give one a kidney and another one some of his liver. And he has two eyes so maybe he could donate at least one of those if not both of them. It is pretty plain he never uses them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I would assume that their lack of reasoning skills and the fact that most people who post here aren't eat up with white guilt--what a terrible affliction that is!!!--are the answers.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Most excellent! I shall use that from time to time. Along with the video of Manchelle saying that his homeland is Kenya. I believe there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for a federal grand jury to indict him for fraud.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I agree that I have no access to a gatteling gun. As to my knowledge of Native culture, you have no idea. "outside of bogus forked tongue crap" Some latent issues here?? So get realistic.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
No, actually I have been very busy and if I neglected to deal with a post pinging me, I'll get to it. Besides, I will have to look at the post you talk about, but I have made no appeal to guilt. You have your opinion, I have mine. That's how it always works, that's how it always will work.
Got Peyote? If it wasn't at Goulding's Trading Post or Mexican Hat Shell station we didn't get it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I have not spent much time looking at them, but offhand, I do not support secession of U.S. territory for it, and find them as extreme as people on the other end of the political spectrum on the issue, and support neither. As far as your claim some opinion of mine is a straw man, I don't see your point. A straw man is a pat set-up put there for the person creating it to knock down to prove it's weak. It is meant to be a false representation of opposing views. All I did in those two quotes you cite is state an opinion as counterpoint only. Dude, I just stated my opinions which like yours' emanate from my knowledge and opinion on the issue. I don't know what you mean by me 'disallowing' anything. I posted my comments as part of lively discussion on the issue. I always listen to what others say on the issue, especially those I disagree with. But I am at a loss to understand what it is I allegedly 'disallowed.' I'm afraid I am not a follower of whatever 'PC' is supposed to mean. Which is why I rarely post at forums where I agree with more of what people say. I am never interested in hearing what the group think says I should believe.
I wonder if you read my post to you, or did you put me on bozo? Mine says 4. Does your 9 count more than my 4? If so, explain why? I look at your posts, and agree with you on a lot of occasions, on this one however I don't.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
No, I like reading you and you are a very smart and formitble poster. I would never bozo you. What do you mean? 4, 9, what are you talking about, I don't follow. Please explain. Thanks.
You asked me what my DD214 said as far as my time served in the military was. Then again, I think you're squaring off with a bunch of other people. Mike, I agree with you more often than not. On the immigration thing, I disagree with you for the simple fact that this isn't just population migration. This is a weapon against our country, and our freedom. Maybe we just see things differently and I'm okay with that, but in all reality I can't understand why you don't see the deliberate betrayal of our country by our leadership, and those who have sworn an oath to repel invaders such as these.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
My hat's off to you for serving. I deal with the issue in the full context of the history of the Americas. I know that unlike Europe and parts of Asia and Africa which saw thee influx of Western Civilization from the Fertile Crescent - Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers -- the Americas have many more natural obstacles and boundaries that prevented one culture here from becoming as pervasive and dominant as Western Civilization did. As far as the immigration of other North Americans into the U.S., I support an amnesty that offers accountability and is fair to all parties. I do not view those coming here as criminals. I see them as here to exploit economic opportunities and see them on the hunt for a better life. Those that worked to exacerbate the situation and make it worse to increase their profits and to enrich themselves, and seek to pit us against immigrants to distract people from their crimes deserve to be prosecuted. Often they are wealthy and well connected and make for difficult targeting in the best of circumstances. But going after the easy target because they have bad or no English skills, lawyers or knowledge on how to defend themselves in our system should not be made substitutes and scapegoats. I don't want their heads as consolation prizes, I want to see those who used them and victimized us to suffer the consequences of their actions.
I can't disagree with you on the majority of what you wrote. I do think that if we are a nation of laws, then we should enforce them, and not selectively if it boosts the profits of those people who in effect create a slave class as a result. Crime is crime to me. I deal in black and white, and no shades of gray. You can't be a little pregnant, you are or you aren't. Same with the law. The same law that I'd like to see leveled at politicians, and other various traitors who have worked diligently to destroy this country.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
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#196. To: abraxas (#163)
Lord Acton
#197. To: Ferret (#195)
I like the Democratic proposal just made that includes a proposal for a Social Security card containing a biometric chip that all workers, including American citizens, would have to present to an employer when being hired.
#198. To: abraxas (#194)
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#199. To: Ferret (#195)
#200. To: SonOfLiberty (#153)
Granted, there are some pretty sad elements on 4um who are racists. That said, that doesn't make your arguments valid. The time of PC intimidation is past. It was the pushing of PC intimidation for the last 20 years that has caused the threat you see now in front of you, that seems to be monolithic and impervious to your arguments. Without the value of PC intimidation for you, you're faced with not only principled opponents of illegal immigration, you're also faced with the spectre of some of the uglier aspects of humanity staring you in the eye and not backing down. You overplayed the PC intimidation card, and now hell is about to be paid. Welcome to the world that people like you helped create.
Lord Acton
#201. To: A K A Stone (#197)
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#202. To: Ferret (#201)
#203. To: Ferret (#201)
#204. To: abraxas (#190)
What I would like to know is why is it THEFT when it happens to YOU, but simply USING another person's identity if an illegal STEALS an identity from another person?
Lord Acton
#205. To: tom007 (#199)
(Edited)
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#206. To: A K A Stone (#203)
(Edited)
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#207. To: James Deffenbach (#204)
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#208. To: Ferret, Mikey the Baboon Butt Faced Welfare weasel (#207)
#209. To: Ferret (#206)
I am willing to compromise to make an amnesty bill happen. That is the only way we are going to resolve this
#210. To: hondo68 (#0)
Some immigrants said they are waiting to see if the law survives legal challenges before making a final decision
#211. To: James Deffenbach (#200)
#212. To: scrapper2 (#210)
#213. To: tom007 (#199)
#214. To: Ferret (#90)
I am through with this issue. President Obama was born in Hawaii, and anal retentive Swift Boating operations are just plain dumb.
#215. To: HOUNDDAWG (#214)
Say what may, Obama is Kogelo’s son ruling the greatest nation on earth 18/10/2009 the standard
#216. To: groundresonance (#215)
He is a US citizen
My joy over McCain's defeat, is offset by my disappointment over hObama's victory.
#217. To: hondo68 (#216)
he's a USURPER.
#218. To: groundresonance, Jethro_Tull, Original_Intent (#215)
#219. To: HOUNDDAWG (#218)
(Edited)
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
Time Warner $590,084
Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
Stanford University $586,557
National Amusements Inc $551,683
UBS AG $543,219
Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
IBM Corp $528,822
Columbia University $528,302
Morgan Stanley $514,881
General Electric $499,130
US Government $494,820
Latham & Watkins $493,835
#220. To: HOUNDDAWG (#218)
(Edited)
#221. To: HOUNDDAWG (#218)
(Edited)
#222. To: abraxas (#209)
What, pray tell, are YOU willing to compromise? Your identity? The illegals can USE yours so they won't have to STEAL one from somebody else.
Lord Acton
#223. To: SonOfLiberty (#211)
Thanks. I notice Mike kinda fled from any replies. In fact, I tend to notice most progressive types tend to flee once they realize that their appeal to guilt no longer works. And logic probably has something to do with it as well I suppose. Or maybe it's my minty fresh breath that repels them. Who knows?
Lord Acton
#224. To: HOUNDDAWG (#214)
Lord Acton
#225. To: SonOfLiberty (#213)
You're not AmerInd, you have zero clue about AmerInd culture outside of bogus forked tongue crap and you have no access to a gatteling gun. Get real.
#226. To: SonOfLiberty (#213)
#227. To: tom007, SonOfLiberty (#226)
O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
Got Peyote?
#228. To: SonOfLiberty (#211)
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#229. To: Original_Intent (#227)
O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
#230. To: SonOfLiberty (#153)
"How does the Atzlan movement fit into your statement's intents?"
"Until you recognize that your view is crafted to fit your preconceived notions and disallows any reasons other than those you've already accepted, you'll continue to be both confused and confronted."
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#231. To: Ferret (#171)
#232. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#231)
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#233. To: Ferret (#232)
#234. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#233)
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#235. To: Ferret (#234)
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