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Title: Arizona immigration law could drive (Illegal Alien) Latinos out of state
Source:
The Arizona Republic
URL Source: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep ... -migrants-leaving-arizona.html
Published: Apr 28, 2010
Author: Daniel González
Post Date: 2010-04-28 04:28:01 by hondo68
Keywords: Illegal, Alien, Invader, Criminals
Views: 3735
Comments: 295
Adriana Miranda leaned against the door frame and started to sob. Her husband hasn't found steady work in a year. Then, on Friday, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the tough anti-illegal-immigration law that will allow police to arrest illegal immigrants like her. It was the last straw. After seven years in Arizona, the family was moving. "Yesterday, we sold our trailer," Miranda, 38, said between sobs. "We don't know exactly where. Another state." Miranda is not alone. More than 100,000 undocumented immigrants have left Arizona in the past two years because of the bad economy and earlier enforcement crackdowns. Now, a new wave of Latinos is preparing to leave. And it isn't just illegal immigrants: Legal residents and U.S. citizens also say they will leave Arizona because they view the state as unfriendly to Hispanics. Arizona's new immigration law is not so much about using local police to round up and deport as many of the estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in the state as possible, said state Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, it's about creating so much fear they will leave on their own. The strategy is known as "attrition through enforcement," and it is a factor behind every one of the anti-illegal-immigration laws passed so far, said Kavanagh, a main supporter of the bill and a criminal-justice professor at Scottsdale Community College. "That means that rather than conducting large-scale active roundups of illegal immigrants, our intention is to make Arizona a very uncomfortable place for them to be so they leave or never come here in the first place," he said. "So, rather than massive deportations, we are basically going to encourage them to leave on their own." When that happens, he said, crime and taxes will go down. But Kavanagh said he is worried about legal immigrants and U.S. citizens also leaving. "I'm concerned about legal residents who are unnecessarily leaving the state because they have bought into a lot of the misinformation about this bill," Kavanagh said. Phoenix resident Javier Collazo, 18, a U.S. citizen who was born in California, said he is worried police may question him about his immigration status because of his appearance. He is also worried that he could be arrested under a provision of the law that makes it a crime to transport undocumented immigrants. His in-laws are undocumented, and so are several of his friends. Kavanagh said legal residents and U.S. citizens have nothing to worry about. The law strictly prohibits racial profiling. And the transporting provision is aimed at human smugglers and other criminals, not people giving rides to undocumented relatives, he said. "They should know that it prohibits racial profiling," Kavanagh said. "They should know that if they are transporting someone, even if they know the person is illegal, as long as they are not doing a separate illegal act, they are not going to get into trouble. They also should know that once by attrition or by enforcement we significantly reduce the number of illegals in this state, taxes are going to go down and crime is going to go down. So, it will be a better place to live for everybody." How many Latinos may leave Arizona is unknown. But the state's economy, which has hit Latinos disproportionately hard, combined with the new law, has made living in Arizona intolerable, many Hispanics said this week. The new law makes it a state crime to be in the country without legal papers and lets police question people about their immigration status if officers have reasonable suspicion they are in the country illegally. An anti-smuggling provision makes it a crime to knowingly transport illegal immigrants. Some immigrants said they are waiting to see if the law survives legal challenges before making a final decision. Others, like Miranda, are already packing their bags. Many said they will move to another state. Few said they will return to Mexico. Not just illegal immigrants are leaving, and the sudden loss of large numbers of people could hurt the state's already dismal economy. José Mendez, an economics professor at the W.P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State University, said the state's economic recovery could be hampered by the large-scale loss of workers. While wages may rise, the price of services "will definitely be higher," he said. Businesses, especially small ones that rely on those workers, will have a hard time expanding, Mendez added. There may also be a loss of sales-tax revenue and even property-tax revenue, he said. "They pay taxes every time they buy food at the 7-Eleven or when they buy gasoline," he said. Mendez also said that, in the short term, undocumented immigrants tend to be a drain on public services because they have low-paying jobs and therefore pay little income taxes. But, in the long run, their U.S.-born children tend to offset those costs through higher-paying jobs and higher taxes. "So on net, when you take those two, empirical studies have shown, they pay more in taxes than the value of services they receive," Mendez said. State Sen. Richard Miranda, D-Tolleson, said the large-scale loss of people could hurt already fragile communities. "It could destabilize neighborhoods," he said. Miranda said he spent 2 1/2 hours Saturday walking through largely Latino neighborhoods in Maryvale and west Phoenix. He said he met Latinos, Sikhs, Hindus, Filipinos and other people of color, the majority of them U.S. citizens. "They are all really concerned about the new law," he said. "The stress and intimidation makes people fearful." Phoenix resident Adamaris, a 22-year-old undocumented immigrant from Mexico, said she thinks many illegal immigrants will leave Arizona. "The economy is already bad here, and now with this new law ...," she said. "No, we don't want to stay here." Adamaris, who asked that her last name not be used because she is afraid of being deported, said she plans to wait two months to see if the law survives legal challenges before deciding whether to leave. Glendale resident John Zavala, 32, was born in Mexico City but has lived in the United States most of his life. He is a legal resident of the United States and moved from Chicago to Phoenix in 2003 because he liked the weather. But Zavala said he thinks the political climate in the state has turned inhospitable toward Latinos. If the hostility continues, Zavala said, he will leave Arizona. "I always carry my green card," said Zavala, a computer-network analyst. "Until this point, I've never had to use it. But from now on, I guess I will."
Adriana Miranda, an undocumented immigrant, tearfully says she's leaving Arizona.
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#221. To: HOUNDDAWG (#218)
(Edited)
by the way, if you're getting tired of posting that jpg or whatever it is of the nairobi standard story, here's the archived url... i mean, it looks kinda cheesy when you post that jpg without any backup. . here's the masthead... you could maybe make up a story, make a jpg out of it, and post it as evidence... US PRESIDENT OBAMA'S KENYAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE SURFACES IN NAIROBI HOSPITAL forgotten drawer of dirty socks yields prize document etc etc etc
And maybe, since he is so kind-hearted for the illegal aliens, he could give one a kidney and another one some of his liver. And he has two eyes so maybe he could donate at least one of those if not both of them. It is pretty plain he never uses them.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I would assume that their lack of reasoning skills and the fact that most people who post here aren't eat up with white guilt--what a terrible affliction that is!!!--are the answers.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Most excellent! I shall use that from time to time. Along with the video of Manchelle saying that his homeland is Kenya. I believe there is more than enough circumstantial evidence for a federal grand jury to indict him for fraud.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I agree that I have no access to a gatteling gun. As to my knowledge of Native culture, you have no idea. "outside of bogus forked tongue crap" Some latent issues here?? So get realistic.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
No, actually I have been very busy and if I neglected to deal with a post pinging me, I'll get to it. Besides, I will have to look at the post you talk about, but I have made no appeal to guilt. You have your opinion, I have mine. That's how it always works, that's how it always will work.
Got Peyote? If it wasn't at Goulding's Trading Post or Mexican Hat Shell station we didn't get it.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I have not spent much time looking at them, but offhand, I do not support secession of U.S. territory for it, and find them as extreme as people on the other end of the political spectrum on the issue, and support neither. As far as your claim some opinion of mine is a straw man, I don't see your point. A straw man is a pat set-up put there for the person creating it to knock down to prove it's weak. It is meant to be a false representation of opposing views. All I did in those two quotes you cite is state an opinion as counterpoint only. Dude, I just stated my opinions which like yours' emanate from my knowledge and opinion on the issue. I don't know what you mean by me 'disallowing' anything. I posted my comments as part of lively discussion on the issue. I always listen to what others say on the issue, especially those I disagree with. But I am at a loss to understand what it is I allegedly 'disallowed.' I'm afraid I am not a follower of whatever 'PC' is supposed to mean. Which is why I rarely post at forums where I agree with more of what people say. I am never interested in hearing what the group think says I should believe.
I wonder if you read my post to you, or did you put me on bozo? Mine says 4. Does your 9 count more than my 4? If so, explain why? I look at your posts, and agree with you on a lot of occasions, on this one however I don't.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
No, I like reading you and you are a very smart and formitble poster. I would never bozo you. What do you mean? 4, 9, what are you talking about, I don't follow. Please explain. Thanks.
You asked me what my DD214 said as far as my time served in the military was. Then again, I think you're squaring off with a bunch of other people. Mike, I agree with you more often than not. On the immigration thing, I disagree with you for the simple fact that this isn't just population migration. This is a weapon against our country, and our freedom. Maybe we just see things differently and I'm okay with that, but in all reality I can't understand why you don't see the deliberate betrayal of our country by our leadership, and those who have sworn an oath to repel invaders such as these.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
My hat's off to you for serving. I deal with the issue in the full context of the history of the Americas. I know that unlike Europe and parts of Asia and Africa which saw thee influx of Western Civilization from the Fertile Crescent - Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers -- the Americas have many more natural obstacles and boundaries that prevented one culture here from becoming as pervasive and dominant as Western Civilization did. As far as the immigration of other North Americans into the U.S., I support an amnesty that offers accountability and is fair to all parties. I do not view those coming here as criminals. I see them as here to exploit economic opportunities and see them on the hunt for a better life. Those that worked to exacerbate the situation and make it worse to increase their profits and to enrich themselves, and seek to pit us against immigrants to distract people from their crimes deserve to be prosecuted. Often they are wealthy and well connected and make for difficult targeting in the best of circumstances. But going after the easy target because they have bad or no English skills, lawyers or knowledge on how to defend themselves in our system should not be made substitutes and scapegoats. I don't want their heads as consolation prizes, I want to see those who used them and victimized us to suffer the consequences of their actions.
I can't disagree with you on the majority of what you wrote. I do think that if we are a nation of laws, then we should enforce them, and not selectively if it boosts the profits of those people who in effect create a slave class as a result. Crime is crime to me. I deal in black and white, and no shades of gray. You can't be a little pregnant, you are or you aren't. Same with the law. The same law that I'd like to see leveled at politicians, and other various traitors who have worked diligently to destroy this country.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
Brovo! We don't an echo chamber.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I think justice would be served by denying Al Sharpton police protection. See how beautifully human nature can resolve all conflicts if only allowed to do so?
“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft
Isn't it obvious that he is eat up with white guilt and blinded by the idiocy of thinking he has to be politically correct?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I think Al Sharpston is an opportunist and a jerk. But don';t want to see anyone get hurt or attacked. If he is prosecutable, fine, otherwise let him talk and be judged in public opinion for his words and actions.
I wasn't suggesting anyone attack him, I'm not even hinting that you took my comment that way, I just think it's a pisser when I'm being forced (by the IRS) to pay for propaganda in the government's war to replace a citizenry it finds troublesome.
“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft
That is your spin, but it is self serving. I am a quarter Hispanic; so though I am indeed blue eyed and don't show this background unless I tan up - which I do very fast with no sun burn if I were to stop using sun block. I just don't care what color anyone is. Everyone is equal before the law. I view illegal entry as a very minor thing, more an infraction then a crime like murder or theft between individuals. I want to see an amnesty that creates accountability and gives a standard to be met to stay in the United States; but I am against any immigrant, be they Mexican, from Central America, Ireland, England, or anywhere not being given a standard to be met to stay. It is your right to not concur with me, but this is where I stand on the issue. I am vastly turned off by the histrionics and irrational hatred coloring the issue. I side with letting those showing good faith y trying to fit into our society and who are hard workers and constructive in their endeavors being allowed to stay.
I haven't any solid numbers, but it would seem that some form of identity fraud would accompany life as a stowaway. I suggest we start off only deporting illegals with gang tatoos, how's that grab you?
“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft
Even at ruination of this country and its culture? Unfortunately for us Mike, there are too many that believe as you do. It is the white man that is the minority, world wide, and people of color cannot wait for the day to crush us into dust.
President Obama needs to show us his Birth Cert College Papers Thesis PASSPORT Reason for Law License suspended by BAR College financial records Legal Name Change Adoption papers I'd also like to know why three of his gay fellow church members, one of whom was in contact with Obama and Larry Sinclair were murdered within 70 days of each other, all murdered execution style and all during Obama's campaign. The odds against that happening at the same time that Obama was denying his fondness for "a coke and smile" from Larry Sinclair are about the same as the odds against being killed by falling space junk-in a word, NOT! The laws of statistical probabilities and Occam's Razor coupled with the unusual silence in the media and from Chicago homicide investigators about the obvious implications of these disturbing facts all point to the same overwhelming "coincidences of unnatural and suspicious deaths" surrounding the Clintons. Neither of the two parties can elect a candidate without problems that are inevitably solved by "timely deaths" that are most fortunate for their respective candidates. Hell, the media can't even report the cold, non-embellished facts without providing every potential juror in the country more evidence than was required to put many people on death row. And Obama's secret down low tongue washers can do nothing but hurl insults and attempt diversions anonymously. The fact that they (you) cannot offer any rationale for their obvious love blindness as they (you) frantically bungle things in a homosexual panic is as damning as the evidence. What's next, the Gazillion Gay Gallop with mauve signs and leather tube tops that read, "Heethe Innothent" and "We wouldn't thuck Barry, HONETHST!"? I guess they (you) are hoping that if he goes down he'll take them (you) with him.....Are you willing to fall on (or swallow) a pork sword for your "mahn"? Tell the truth, if you had your pick between being knighted by the "real" Queen or sharing a prison cell for life with Obama, which would you choose?
you havent answered the main question: in this era of lawlessness, what difference does it make whether obama is a kenyan or a muscovy duck?
if it's only worth half a billion dollars to these people to install the right guy, that must mean "the right guy" isnt that important... ...not when exxon makes profits of 45 billion a year.
and then there's that other question: what if goldman sachs has decided that israel was such a bad idea, right from the start, that it's got to be abandoned? would that explain israeli hostility towards obama? or is this "hostility" just more theater? it's one of those "wait and see" things, isnt it? ...and the uncertainty is driving you people wild.
...and what it all boils down to, from the israeli perspective, is, "god bless our nukes, because whatever else happens, we can kill billions of people as we go under." and that's the crowning accomplishment of zionism.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. meanwhile, deathwish christians like deffenbach are supporting israel and its samson option, in hopes of being raptured before the nukes start flying.
Yeah, ya' did. LOL! I always love that kind of mushy gray stuff.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
In the case of illegal immigration I want an echo chamber, but then again I'm a tax payer who is impacted by the cost of the social services illegals absorb. What's your best guess on what that cost is to AZ the state, and why should law abiding citizens be forced to pay one dime in extra taxes to support illegals?
why is it you ignore the large percentage of radical illegals who hate America (ns)? and the bottom line is that it is an economic issue. this country cannot absorb Mexico and the rest of the world. it IS about survival. our survival as people and the nation is my priority. AmericaFirst.
Most of those coming in from the south do it to work and are decent people. I want an amnesty that makes people accountable and will send them back if they are not here contributing to the general good. I don't see an amnesty as being anything that will increase the numbers of people coming here, and it will remove the excuse that we are nothing but oppressive people that do not care about others. I also want to see stronger measures in place to shore up border security. But I know that too draconian an attitude and response to immigrants is not worth the hit to our image and standing in the world. 'And I absolutely positively will never support treating immigrants like axe murderers and violent criminals because of a too strident and angry emotional response out of proportion to the problem at hand.
Really???? a. What evidence do you have for that theory? b. And why can't they queue in line like other Mexican immigrants waiting to be admitted lawfully into the USA? Fyi, Mexico has been assigned one of the the most generous quotas for lawful immigration to the USA. America does not need millions of uneducated unskilled immigrants, legal or illegal, for its economy to thrive. The quota for legal Mexican immigrants is a GIFT to Mexicans as it is. To properly achieve "diversity," a concept which I am sure you salute, we need to drastically cut back immigration, legal and illegal, from Mexico.
Don't you support Israel, Mike? What do you think about Israel's border security measures? A-okay? Or too draconian? Or is Israel too special to discuss?
Well said. Not that it will sink in but you stated it well anyway.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I don't support the way Israel is treating the Palestinians. As for the immigrants from the south, it is obvious and well known most are decent hard working people. There are bad apples everywhere, and a spotlight on them does not make everyone from the south evil. As far as the queue in line bit, they haven't, just like you have like everyone who drives have sped, done illgal u turns and done things you shouldn't because you felt you had to. I consider them violations, not crimes. Don't like my views? dial 1.800.eat. shit. They are my views, I have them because that is my take on things. I don't change them to make people like you happy.
How about you take your traveling Obama freak show to another forum, you leftist POS.
Don't you feel that you have made an inconclusive comment? Here: This should be changed to: I thought I should correct you, my little ol' hippie living in Eugene.
"Sarah "Kiss my Torah" Palin" -- Jethro Tull, circa 2010-04-14
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#222. To: abraxas (#209)
What, pray tell, are YOU willing to compromise? Your identity? The illegals can USE yours so they won't have to STEAL one from somebody else.
Lord Acton
#223. To: SonOfLiberty (#211)
Thanks. I notice Mike kinda fled from any replies. In fact, I tend to notice most progressive types tend to flee once they realize that their appeal to guilt no longer works. And logic probably has something to do with it as well I suppose. Or maybe it's my minty fresh breath that repels them. Who knows?
Lord Acton
#224. To: HOUNDDAWG (#214)
Lord Acton
#225. To: SonOfLiberty (#213)
You're not AmerInd, you have zero clue about AmerInd culture outside of bogus forked tongue crap and you have no access to a gatteling gun. Get real.
#226. To: SonOfLiberty (#213)
#227. To: tom007, SonOfLiberty (#226)
O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
Got Peyote?
#228. To: SonOfLiberty (#211)
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#229. To: Original_Intent (#227)
O, and I was in a Hogan about ten days ago.
#230. To: SonOfLiberty (#153)
"How does the Atzlan movement fit into your statement's intents?"
"Until you recognize that your view is crafted to fit your preconceived notions and disallows any reasons other than those you've already accepted, you'll continue to be both confused and confronted."
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#231. To: Ferret (#171)
#232. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#231)
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#233. To: Ferret (#232)
#234. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#233)
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#235. To: Ferret (#234)
#236. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#233)
Maybe we just see things differently and I'm okay with that,
#237. To: Ferret (#234)
I don't want their heads as consolation prizes, I want to see those who used them and victimized us to suffer the consequences of their actions.
#238. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#233)
Maybe we just see things differently and I'm okay with that, but in all reality I can't understand why you don't see the deliberate betrayal of our country by our leadership, and those who have sworn an oath to repel invaders such as these.
Lord Acton
#239. To: Dakmar (#237)
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#240. To: Ferret (#239)
#241. To: James Deffenbach (#238)
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#242. To: Ferret (#241)
I view illegal entry as a very minor thing, more an infraction then a crime like murder or theft between individuals.
#243. To: Ferret, All (#241)
but I am against any immigrant, be they Mexican, from Central America, Ireland, England, or anywhere not being given a standard to be met to stay.
#244. To: groundresonance, Jethro_Tull, Original_Intent, christine, IRTorqued, James Deffenbach, gengis gandhi, IndieTX, Horse, randge, Patriot Henry, bluegrass, ada, Googolplex, scrapper2, farmfriend (#221)
#245. To: HOUNDDAWG (#244)
(Edited)
#246. To: HOUNDDAWG (#244)
(Edited)
#247. To: HOUNDDAWG (#244)
(Edited)
#248. To: HOUNDDAWG (#244)
#249. To: HOUNDDAWG (#244)
(Edited)
What's next, the Gazillion Gay Gallop with mauve signs and leather tube tops that read, "Heethe Innothent" and "We wouldn't thuck Barry, HONETHST!"?
Lord Acton
#250. To: James Deffenbach (#249)
#251. To: Ferret (#228)
, but I have made no appeal to guilt.
You have your opinion, I have mine. That's how it always works, that's how it always will work
#252. To: tom007, All (#236)
#253. To: Ferret (#234)
I do not view those coming here as criminals.
#254. To: christine (#253)
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#255. To: Ferret (#254)
Most of those coming in from the south do it to work and are decent people.
#256. To: Ferret (#254)
I also want to see stronger measures in place to shore up border security. But I know that too draconian an attitude and response to immigrants is not worth the hit to our image and standing in the world.
#257. To: christine (#253)
why is it you ignore the large percentage of radical illegals who hate America (ns)? and the bottom line is that it is an economic issue. this country cannot absorb Mexico and the rest of the world. it IS about survival. our survival as people and the nation is my priority. AmericaFirst.
Lord Acton
#258. To: scrapper2 (#255)
(Edited)
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#259. To: Ferret (#258)
I consider them violations, not crimes. Don't like my views? dial 1.800.eat. shit.
#260. To: Ferret (#258)
I don't support the way Israel is treating the Palestinians.
I don't support the way Israel is treating the Palestinians.
I don't support the way Zionists are treating the Palestinians. This includes the US government and the end-of-the-world wankers called Christians such as Sarah Palin.
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