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Title: What is the Law?
Source:
townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/CalThomas/2010/05/13/what_is_the_law
Published: May 13, 2010
Author: Cal Thomas
Post Date: 2010-05-13 08:31:01 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 313
Comments: 31
What is the Law? We are told by no less than President Obama and supporters of his nominee to the Supreme Court, Elena Kagan, that she "loves the law." I love my cat, but what does loving the law mean for the court, for the law and for the public? What is the law? Is it a game played by insiders who went to Harvard (or Yale) law schools and the intellectual equivalent of theological debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or is it something else, and if something else, what? The classical view of law is that it is meant to restrain lawbreakers. But in order to define a lawbreaker, one must have a standard for law so that people know it when they break it. The modern ("progressive" as Kagan has been called) view of law is that it is to serve the political ends of those in power. This is why we hear so much talk about Kagan being in touch with "average," or "regular" people, as opposed to above and below average and "irregular" people I suppose. The classic view of law is something quite different. Expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone -- who, if he is studied at all at Harvard and Yale, is most likely treated as a relic with nothing to say to us moderns -- is that the law began in the Mind of a Higher Authority. Blackstone expressed it this way: "No enactment of man can be considered law unless it conforms to the law of God." Blackstone's philosophy was not insular, but served a larger purpose. As he expressed it, a law rooted in the ultimate Lawgiver, means, "The law, which restrains a man from doing mischief to his fellow citizens, though it diminishes the natural, increases the civil liberty of mankind." In other words, if the law is a kind of judicial floating crap game, no one can say at any given moment where the "game" is being played or what the outcome might be. But law that is fixed and conforms people to a recognized standard promotes the general welfare -- as opposed to political interests -- and even increases civil liberties. That's the kind of law I want and the kind of law the public should desire if it fully understood what is at stake in these debates about the Supreme Court. But Elena Kagan appears not to embrace this type of law. Neither is it how the progressive President Obama views the law. The president believes the law should serve his political goals. In the pursuit of those goals, the president has selected someone from a legal cocoon. Senator Patrick Leahy, the Vermont Democrat who chairs the Judiciary Committee, has praised Kagan's qualifications and "real-life experience" outside the courtroom. Vice President Biden calls her "Main Street." In fact, her experience, as noted by the Politico Website, "draws from a world whose signposts are distant from most Americans: Manhattan's Upper West Side, Princeton University, Harvard Law School and the upper reaches of the Democratic legal establishment." One of the several talking points about Kagan is that she is a "moderate liberal." In fact, Ron Klain, Vice President Biden's chief of staff, has called Kagan a "legal progressive." That seems about right because in college she lamented the decline of the socialist movement. If she is asked about that at her confirmation hearings, expect her to say she has "matured" since her days as a student. The question should be: "But have you converted from your embrace of socialism and on what basis? A love for capitalism and the Constitution?" Democrats have the votes in the Senate to confirm her, but Republicans ought to use the process to further expose where this progressive president wants to take us: away from true law, William Blackstone and our nation's founders or toward the remaking of America in his image? Should this be an issue in the November election? Indeed, it should.
Cal Thomas
Thursday, May 13, 2010
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#1. To: All (#0)
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
From Gulliver's Travels, Book IV: A Voyage to the Country of the Houyhnhnms: Chapter 5 I assured his honour, "that the law was a science in which I had not much conversed, further than by employing advocates, in vain, upon some injustices that had been done me: however, I would give him all the satisfaction I was able." I said, "there was a society of men among us, bred up from their youth in the art of proving, by words multiplied for the purpose, that white is black, and black is white, according as they are paid. To this society all the rest of the people are slaves. For example, if my neighbour has a mind to my cow, he has a lawyer to prove that he ought to have my cow from me. I must then hire another to defend my right, it being against all rules of law that any man should be allowed to speak for himself. Now, in this case, I, who am the right owner, lie under two great disadvantages: first, my lawyer, being practised almost from his cradle in defending falsehood, is quite out of his element when he would be an advocate for justice, which is an unnatural office he always attempts with great awkwardness, if not with ill-will. The second disadvantage is, that my lawyer must proceed with great caution, or else he will be reprimanded by the judges, and abhorred by his brethren, as one that would lessen the practice of the law. And therefore I have but two methods to preserve my cow. The first is, to gain over my adversary's lawyer with a double fee, who will then betray his client by insinuating that he hath justice on his side. The second way is for my lawyer to make my cause appear as unjust as he can, by allowing the cow to belong to my adversary: and this, if it be skilfully done, will certainly bespeak the favour of the bench. Now your honour is to know, that these judges are persons appointed to decide all controversies of property, as well as for the trial of criminals, and picked out from the most dexterous lawyers, who are grown old or lazy; and having been biassed all their lives against truth and equity, lie under such a fatal necessity of favouring fraud, perjury, and oppression, that I have known some of them refuse a large bribe from the side where justice lay, rather than injure the faculty, by doing any thing unbecoming their nature or their office. "It is a maxim among these lawyers that whatever has been done before, may legally be done again: and therefore they take special care to record all the decisions formerly made against common justice, and the general reason of mankind. These, under the name of precedents, they produce as authorities to justify the most iniquitous opinions; and the judges never fail of directing accordingly. "In pleading, they studiously avoid entering into the merits of the cause; but are loud, violent, and tedious, in dwelling upon all circumstances which are not to the purpose. For instance, in the case already mentioned; they never desire to know what claim or title my adversary has to my cow; but whether the said cow were red or black; her horns long or short; whether the field I graze her in be round or square; whether she was milked at home or abroad; what diseases she is subject to, and the like; after which they consult precedents, adjourn the cause from time to time, and in ten, twenty, or thirty years, come to an issue. "It is likewise to be observed, that this society has a peculiar cant and jargon of their own, that no other mortal can understand, and wherein all their laws are written, which they take special care to multiply; whereby they have wholly confounded the very essence of truth and falsehood, of right and wrong; so that it will take thirty years to decide, whether the field left me by my ancestors for six generations belongs to me, or to a stranger three hundred miles off. "In the trial of persons accused for crimes against the state, the method is much more short and commendable: the judge first sends to sound the disposition of those in power, after which he can easily hang or save a criminal, strictly preserving all due forms of law." Here my master interposing, said, "it was a pity, that creatures endowed with such prodigious abilities of mind, as these lawyers, by the description I gave of them, must certainly be, were not rather encouraged to be instructors of others in wisdom and knowledge." In answer to which I assured his honour, "that in all points out of their own trade, they were usually the most ignorant and stupid generation among us, the most despicable in common conversation, avowed enemies to all knowledge and learning, and equally disposed to pervert the general reason of mankind in every other subject of discourse as in that of their own profession."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Great excerpt. Gulliver bump.
I rise in great respect for the courage and high ideals of Rosa Parks who stood steadfastly for the rights of individuals against unjust laws and oppressive governmental policies. -- Ron Paul
Thank you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Thank you, Eric. I never saw the movie.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Partisans of the two party fraud are so predictable. Cal Thomas didn't give a damn about the law or the Constitution when Bush was president and the Republican Party had complete control of the federal government. On the contrary, he was an outspoken cheerleader of the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, torture, taking away Habeas Corpus and the implementation of the police state infrastructure. But NOW he cares. LOL! Right. he cares right up to the time when the Republicans take back control, just like partisan Democrats like the members of "the people's forum" were anti-war up until the time the Democrats took control.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Yeah, and apparently close to blind. What else could explain a man dating the black Medusa, Whoopi Goldberg?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Whoopi's finest moment was in a bathtub of milk. (I cannot imagine how drunk I've have to be to drop the hammer on her.)
I shudder to think of the hangover.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I'd rather have sex with a dog.
“No amount of reason, evidence, logic or rational argument will ever convince the true believer otherwise.”
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
One difference is that dogs are better looking. Even a Shar Pei would be a credit to her. Here. Now, isn't that a beauty compared to Whoopi?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. If you mean why is he wrong to be that way, I would say that he is wrong because moral relativism is wrong, or at least I believe it is wrong. I believe it is wrong because I believe it undermines morality. If morality is relative, then there is no morality. It allows one to justify anything and everything, regardless of how horrendous (such as torture or murdering women and children in the name of spreading Democracy). If on the other hand, you are asking me why I believe the words he wrote in his article are wrong, I would say that I am not claiming that they are wrong. I am just commenting on his hypocrisy.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I demonstrated nothing. You asked me a question and I gave you my opinion, hence the words "I believe." You are not required to agree with me and I'm not required to give a shit.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
Whatever. This is America and you are as free to lick the balls of Cal Thomas and every other neocon piece of shit as I am to condemn them.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
"In the trial of persons accused for crimes against the state, the method is much more short and commendable: the judge first sends to sound the disposition of those in power, after which he can easily hang or save a criminal, strictly preserving all due forms of law." From -Hang 'Em High: Judge Adam Fenton: "You think I judged him too harshly? Used him for kindling my fire of justice? Well, maybe that's inevitable when there's only one man, one court, with the power of final justice over a territory that's five times the size of most states. Mistakes? Oh, I've made 'em, Cooper. Don't you doubt about that. Don't you doubt, either, there are times sitting up there in that judgement seat I wished, I prayed, that there was someone standing between me and God Almighty - someone with the power to say, "You're wrong, Fenton. You've made an error in law - that this man deserves another trial, this man here a reprieve, this man is innocent." But until this territory becomes a state with a governor and a state court of appeals, I am the law here - all the law. If you don't like that, you can cuss me till hell freezes over... or you can join me, Cooper; even fight me. Help me turn this God forsaken territory into a state where no one man calls himself the law."
_________________________________________________________________________ This. Otherwise, good to know that 7 billion people can all accurately defer to their own opinion of for moral guidance while dismissing those of the other 6,999,999,999 that do not entirely agree with every one of their moral opinions. Interestingly, of the people that seem to hold that moral premise, few seem to see any problems with it. You are the one who condemns everyone that doesn't read the Bible as you do, not I. You are the one who claims that this group or that group of people aren't "real" Christians. You are the one who posts with a holier than thou attitude when it comes to your religion, telling people they are wrong on this point or that point (for example, trying to get into an argument with James Deffenbach over his rapture beliefs), not I. You are projecting your own bullshit onto me.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
You have repeatedly failed in spades except to say that "you believe" thereby insinuating that the moral compass of the entire known world is what F.A. Hayek Fan's moral beliefs are. When I state that someone professing to be a christian isn't, all I'm saying is that their stated beliefs (not their actions only since we're all sinners) do not jibe with what the Bible teaches. I'm neither their judge nor parent, but I can make my own judgements as to whether A matches up with B in the contexts of discussion and regarding clearly stated doctrinal tenets found in Scripture! Either way, I know what I believe and can clearly articulate it, unlike you who implies that whatever you believe is good, right, true, and moral. Don't know what else to say, but talk about projecting, if you can't state your own fucking moral foundations, don't try to hang your albatross around my neck. You asked for my opinion. I gave it to you and I gave you the reason why I believed the way I do in post number 9, so to say that I am unable to substantiate or articulate my beliefs is a plain lie. I in no way insinuated that the whole world had to believe the way I do, or that I was somehow the moral compass for the world. That's just plain stupid. What you want to do, and which I refuse to do, is argue back and forth with me over my beliefs. You appear to be under the misguided impression that I have to justify myself to you. I do not have to justify anything to you. I gave you my opinion and I gave you the reasons why I believed the way I did. You are not required to agree with me and I'm not required to care, any more than James was required to care that you disagree with his belief in the rapture. If you see nothing wrong with moral relativism that's fine. If you see nothing wrong with Cal Thomas or anyone else spending the entire Bush administration cheer leading the very things he is now whining that Obama is doing, that's fine too.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
I answered your question. You didn't like the answer and wanted to argue. Thanks but no thanks.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976 Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Very good quote. Thanks.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
#2. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
What is the law? Is it a game played by insiders who went to Harvard (or Yale) law schools and the intellectual equivalent of theological debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or is it something else, and if something else, what?
Lord Acton
#3. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
#4. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#3)
Lord Acton
#5. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
#6. To: Eric Stratton (#5)
Lord Acton
#7. To: Eric Stratton (#0)
#8. To: James Deffenbach (#6)
#9. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#7)
#10. To: Eric Stratton (#8)
I more or less dislike Dansen because the man's an ignoramus
Lord Acton
#11. To: James Deffenbach, 4 (#10)
#12. To: Lod (#11)
(I cannot imagine how drunk I've have to be to drop the hammer on her.)
Lord Acton
#13. To: James Deffenbach (#10)
#14. To: Eric Stratton (#13)
But I agree, Whoopee's heinous.
#15. To: Turtle (#14)
#16. To: Eric Stratton (#15)
Lord Acton
#17. To: Eric Stratton (#9)
As illogical as that might be, and I'm not disagreeing in the least, that's his moral underpinning, so why is he wrong?
#18. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#17)
#19. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#17)
#20. To: Eric Stratton (#18)
(Edited)
You used the word "I" four times above to demonstrate why it was wrong.
#21. To: Eric Stratton (#19)
PS and for the sake of argument only here, I don't care what your opinions of morality are in determining what my morality is, whatever the source of it is. I'm pretty sure that I speak for everyone else on this planet that also will claim that you are not their source for moral standards. So how do you reconcile that? And again, why then is he "wrong" if you cannot do that?
#22. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#20)
#23. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#21)
#24. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
From Gulliver's Travels, Book IV: A Voyage to the Country of the Houyhnhnms: Chapter 5
Obama is the miscegenated bastard of a white communist whore. True story.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#25. To: Eric Stratton (#23)
Yes, I understand what happens when one runs out of polemical ammo.
#26. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#25)
#27. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#25)
#28. To: Eric Stratton (#26)
All I ask for douche bag is that people be able to subtantiate their own positions.
#29. To: Eric Stratton (#27)
I just had to take advantage of the opportunity in your having stated a moral position by asking you why your seemingly arbitrary position is more valid than the position of Thomas', arbitrary or not. I knew what the answer was going to be, namely that you didn't have one. Nothing new here other than F.A. Hayek Fan says.
#30. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#29)
#31. To: X-15 (#24)
Lord Acton
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