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(s)Elections
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Title: A POLITICAL INSURRECTION HAS BEGUN
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://email
Published: May 15, 2010
Author: Gary North
Post Date: 2010-05-15 01:32:15 by DeaconBenjamin
Keywords: None
Views: 654
Comments: 50

On Saturday, May 8, an extraordinary event took place. United States Senator Bob Bennett, a 3-term Republican, failed to make the cut for his party's primary. Not only was he not nominated to run, he did not make the cut to get nominated. He was a distant third. Two Tea Party candidates beat him.

Bob Bennett is a legacy Senator. His father served as Senator before him.

This was an insurrection.

Bennett had turned squishy years ago. He had an undeserved reputation as a conservative. He backed the TARP bailout in 2008. Then he backed Obama's health insurance bill. That did it. "No mas!" The folks back home sent him a message: "You're out of here!"

Then, three days later, across the country, it happened again. Congressman Alan Mollohan of West Virginia, was smashed in the Democratic Party's primary, 56% to 44%. He had held that seat for 14 terms -- almost 28 years. He had supported Obama's health care bill. He was one of the Stupak Seven. When Stupak folded, Mollohan folded. That ended his political career.

This is a bipartisan insurrection. It indicates that the voters have finally had enough. It may represent a turning point in American politics.

Think about what these two votes mean. In American politics, voters decide between two parties. Politicians' campaign strategies are targeted at the 80% of the voters who are in play. The 10% at each end of the political spectrum are either true believers or staunch enemies. They are ignored. They get platitudes from the candidates, but that's all. A politician who campaigns on a straight ideological platform is extremely rare. Ron Paul is such a politician, but how representative is he of politics in general?

As soon as a person is elected to Congress, his party supports him thereafter, no matter what. Local politics is seen as "our man in Washington vs. their would-be interloper." The faithful party member now overlooks every deviant vote by the incumbent. The incumbent is always seen as better than the other party's candidate, no matter who that candidate is.

At the level of the Presidency, there are enough independents and enough marginal voters to enable a popular candidate to win votes from members of the other party. Think of Jimmy Cater in 1980. Reagan overwhelmed him. Carter lost votes from his own party.

The nation is really divided. We have never seen before what happened under Clinton and Bush II: a pair of two-term Presidents from rival parties. There is now ebb and flow at the national level. No party has a lock on the Presidency.

This ebb and flow has not existed locally within a party. Once elected, a Congressman or a Senator who decides to run again is going to get the nomination of his party at the next election. The faithful conclude, "Our man, right or wrong." Bob Bennett and Alan Mollohan discovered that this tradition has ended.

It ended without warning. Bennett did not figure out what was about to happen to him until the last minute. To save his candidacy, he invited Mitt Romney to introduce him at the convention. How out of touch can a politician be? Mitt Romney represents the Eastern Republican Establishment. He was governor of Massachusetts. He passed a health care law similar to Obama's. That Bennett thought Romney could help him with the Republicans back home indicates how completely out of touch he had become.

Yes, Romney is a Mormon. Yes, Utah is Mormon. In the good old days, the folks back home would have thought, "It's us vs. them." But with his voting record, Bennett had moved into the camp of "them." He did not perceive this until it was too late.

In a CNN interview with a man identified as the founder of the Tea Party movement in Utah, the interviewer with the flowing hair tried to identify Bennett as a conservative. She reeled off names of supporting right-wing Beltway groups. The man being interviewed shrugged this off. "It isn't a matter of conservatism," he said. "It's a matter of responsibility." Bennett should not have voted to bail out failing companies, he said. But, she hastened to ask, "should a man's career end because of one vote?" His answer was perfect: "His career WILL end with that vote." And it did. CNN then switched to Bennett, who defended that vote. He is gone. The video is worth watching.

bit.ly/DeadCareer

The incumbents are facing an insurrection. A fundamental assumption of all Congressional politics is being called into question: guaranteed re-nomination of incumbents. This means that the folks back home are going to nominate newcomers who are dependent on swing voters in a way unseen before in American politics. There will be no more of "our man, right or wrong."

This means that voters back home are so angry that they would prefer to lose the November election with a candidate who reflects their views rather than win with an incumbent who doesn't. It means that the politics of the Capitol Hill club is no longer secure. It means that the Old Boy Network of incumbents on the Hill can no longer secure automatic re-nomination.

If this continues, the nation's political system will change. Incumbents will have to pay attention to the opinions of the voters in their parties in their districts. This places power in the hands of dedicated minorities back home who are willing to send a message to their men in Washington: "You will remain our man for only as long as you vote our way on the issues that matter to us." There will be no more free rides at the nomination level.

This is a positive development. It introduces an element of uncertainty into national politics. The informal alliances on Capitol Hill will be undermined as never before. The ever- popular game of logrolling will get more risky. Logrolling is this: "I'll vote for your pork- filled bill if you'll vote for mine." Incumbents play this game for pork's sake. But if voters back home are angrier about pork-for-all than they are about insufficient-pork-for-us, the political structure will begin to shift rightward. This will fundamentally change the rules of the game.

TARP AND THE MSM

I find it hard to believe that voters are finally willing to throw out an incumbent in their party because he voted the wrong way on some pork- filled law. But TARP really infuriated voters. In October 2008, voters were opposed to the bailouts. As one North Carolina Congressmen put it, his district was divided 50-50 between "no" and "hell no." But Paulson's warning of imminent collapse carried the day. It also carried Obama to victory a month later.

The general rule is this: voters forget in six months. They do not bear political grudges. The general rule got broken with TARP.

It will get broken with Obama's health insurance law, too. As the costs rise, the public will be reminded. When I say "the public," I mean the swing voters in both parties who are hopping mad about the law and willing to exact revenge.

Political revenge has been rare in American politics. That is because voters did forget. They moved on. They could be manipulated by the media to get them all in a dither about the latest political issue. But the Web is changing all this. The Web lets hopping mad people stay hopping mad. The mainstream media no longer control the flow of information. They no longer determine what issues will get attention by the public. With respect to the swing voters who can withhold the nomination from incumbents, the Web has become the crucial factor. The mainstream media no longer call the shots.

These is another factor to consider: single- issue voting. The single-issue voter is the bane of a politician's career. This voter will vote against anyone who votes against his issue. He also keeps informed about how politicians have been voting.

Congress has fought against this by concealing votes whenever possible. The language of bills to consider an issue is confusing. Sometimes, Congressmen vote by voice rather than by having their votes recorded. This policy has been facilitated by the local press, which could always choose not to write about a Congressman's unpopular vote.

Today, because of the Web, it is difficult for politicians to conceal their votes from special-interest groups and single-issue voters. They must therefore make choices regarding which groups to alienate. This in turn makes politics more divisive.

HOW TO INFLICT PAIN

An old friend of mine is retired California state Senator Bill Richardson. He taught me a great deal about local politics. He is the founder of Gun Owners of America. He told me that politicians want to avoid pain. If you can create pain for them, you can get them to change on specific issues. He said that one of his direct- mail strategies was to find a weak position in the voting record of a state representative who was in favor of gun control. In the man's district, he was not in trouble about his votes on gun control. So, Richardson would find an issue that did put him at risk. Then he would do mass mailings into the man's district that focused on his unpopular votes. The guy always knew who was creating the problem for him. Richardson made sure he knew. Richardson would then offer a deal: no more mailings in exchange for some crucial vote on gun ownership. He got votes this way.

The cover provided to local politicians by the mainstream media is worth less and less, because the mainstream media are dying. These media outlets are not being replaced by media outlets that gain the readership locally of large numbers of people. Instead, local readers focus on whatever single issue that motivates them most. If a politician deviates from the acceptable line -- not a party line -- the voters in his district who are committed to the position find out.

These voters have generally not been political activists involved in precinct politics. But in the last year, the spending issue has mobilized a previously unorganized group of single-issue voters. Because spending encompasses everything that civil government does, the Tea Party movement is a major threat to politicians who are always ready to vote for more spending, which is most of them.

The first two sacrificial goats on the Tea Party's altar are Bennett and Mollohan. Because they are in different political parties, different regions, and different-colored states -- red and blue -- their defeat represents a serious threat to politics-as-usual. Defeat at the primary level is not supposed to happen.

There is no media protection for politicians now. They can run, but they can't hide. In the case of Bennett and Mollohan, they can't even run. Their careers as politicians are over.

SEND THEM A MESSAGE!

That phrase was made popular by Gov. George Wallace in the 1972 election. So was his other phrase: "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties."

Today, the Tea Party movement rests squarely on these two phrases. The defeat of Bennett and Mollohan has sent a message to Washington. It is the only message 80% of Congress understands: fear. They can see that their parties may not support them this year. They also see that a refusal to oppose new spending bills will lead to their departure from Washington.

This is going to change the political landscape in the United States. The Tea Party is in a position to do what Bill Richardson recommended: impose pain. Politicians respond to pain. The greatest pain is the loss of votes back home. Nothing else comes close.

The two primaries produced results that are historically unprecedented. These two primaries were preceded by the failure of Gov. Bill Crist of Florida to receive the Republican Party's nomination for U.S. Senator. He says that he will run as an independent. This may kill the campaign of fiscal conservative Marco Rubio in November. But Rubio can get nominated again. He will not be seen as a loser; he will be seen as the victim of a spoiler. Crist is finished politically. The Republicans will resent him for not bowing out gracefully.

There is nothing wrong with spoiling, if you can continue to kill a party's chances at the general election. At some point, the party's hierarchy will have to work out a deal. Otherwise, they are doomed to defeat. But a one- shot spoiling campaign is suicidal. It kills the future threat. It sends this message: "These people don't have the votes. Ignore them." Crist is a threat this time only because he is the governor. He will not be governor again.

The Tea Party is sending a message across the country to both political parties: "Ignore us at your peril. We are in a position to end your careers." Hard-core big spenders in safe districts will not pay any attention. But without the votes of their vulnerable peers, they will not be able to ram through big-spending bills.

The ability of the Democrats to get votes for any new spending bills has been drastically reduced over the last week. Members of Congress in marginal districts will hesitate to commit political suicide. Also, there will be more announcements of long-term Democrats who plan to retire. No one wants to be publicly defeated by some upstart. It is easier to retire on a fat Congressional pension.

The familiar game of politics is now vulnerable to upstarts who are motivated by one issue: reduce government spending. They cannot be easily bought off. They are not pork-seekers. If they stick to their guns and get organized locally, they will be able to inflict enormous pain on incumbents. This process has begun.

CONCLUSION

I think the next Congress will be less ready to pass huge spending bills. Obama's domestic agenda was thwarted over the last week in Utah and West Virginia. It will be thwarted even more in November.

This will not be enough to save the country from a flood of red ink. That ink was guaranteed in 1965, When Lyndon Johnson signed Medicare into law. It was guaranteed by Bush II's prescription drug subsidy. The killer programs are at present untouchable. But, at the margin, the President's agenda is in trouble. He will be blamed for the deficit. He will be blamed for the costs of the health insurance law.

Mollohan's defeat was more significant than Bennett's. It sent Democrat incumbents a message: "No mas!" If a politician in a safe Democratic district thinks he can recruit volunteers in a self-immolation program of additional Federal spending, he will find that in January 2011, there will be far fewer members of his party willing to join him . . . or her. Nancy Pelosi will have a harder time rounding up the votes. She may even become the Minority Leader.

That thought cheers me up. I am a fan of the politics of revenge.

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#10. To: DeaconBenjamin (#0)

INSURRECTION: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Giving one corrupt Republican the boot in lieu of another Republican in a primary is NOT an insurrection. Giving incumbants on both sides their walking papers should be a no brainer, a standard protocol, a repeated event at every election.

An insurrection would be giving the Republicans and Democrats the boot. A revolt would be refusing to play into the two party fraud.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-05-15   11:00:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: DeaconBenjamin (#0)

http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north843.html This is the URL.

The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie

Horse  posted on  2010-05-15   11:26:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: abraxas (#10)

An insurrection would be giving the Republicans and Democrats the boot. A revolt would be refusing to play into the two party fraud.

Amen!


"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831

farmfriend  posted on  2010-05-15   11:43:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Eric Stratton (#5)

Who cares if politicians help? The only thing they understand is getting their asses kicked, and they're getting their asses kicked.

Thank you, Obama, you worthless half white trash, half coon POS!

“No amount of reason, evidence, logic or rational argument will ever convince the true believer otherwise.”

Turtle  posted on  2010-05-15   11:48:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Turtle (#13)

Thank you, Obama, you worthless half white trash, half coon POS!

LOL tell us how you really feel.


"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831

farmfriend  posted on  2010-05-15   11:49:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Original_Intent (#8)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-05-15   13:00:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Turtle (#13)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-05-15   13:02:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Horse (#11)

Except that I received it by email.

he who wants bread is the servant of the man that will feed him, if a man thus feeds a whole people, they are under his control.

DeaconBenjamin  posted on  2010-05-15   14:31:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: wakeup (#3)

I don't want to name names so I'll just give their initials: ewecon, muttdog, P-ratty1145, libbyturd, and witlesssands are but a few of them.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-05-15   15:10:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Eric Stratton (#7)

can't say, I have not visited the short-bus zone in a coon's age.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-05-15   15:12:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: James Deffenbach (#9)

Good article but I would point out an exception to that general rule. The establishment R's don't support Ron Paul, they support people who run against him.

the establishment of the RNCFR and the DNCFR run and back (not necessarily in that order) persons who have no use for the constitution.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-05-15   15:18:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Original_Intent (#1)

It's a start anyway.

I agree. It beats bouncing .223's off the side of a tank for now.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-05-15   15:20:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Eric Stratton (#6) (Edited)

It's a start anyway. People need to inform themselves, but we have a big hill to climb. One of the biggest barriers is the declining literacy level which in turn begets ignorance. The problem with the ignorant is that they don't know what they don't know and frequently think they know a lot more than they do. I find that so sad - they have been robbed blind and don't even know it.

By the time enough people to achieve a critical mass figure this out we'll all be fighting for our lives.

I sit here in Dupont-The Delaware State and watch, knowing that any anti incumbency movement will pass my state by. As long as our congressional delegation (2 DEM senators-one RINO-in-the-closet congressman) don't touch SS, Medicare or the appropriations for Dover Air Force Base, New Castle Air National Guard Base, The Elsmere VA Hospital or any of the other "entitlements from God", they'll be re-elected.

And it's equally pointless to stand in line to vote for a president because it's a given that our THREE electoral votes will go to the Dem.

We have a Libertarian Party but anyone who thinks outside the box here is considered an oddball, like someone who wears his underwear outside his clothes.....

De has no sales tax because we have so many companies incorporated here (supposedly because of our skillful Court Of Chancery and business friendly environment and laws) and those fees from companies such as TIME WARNER etc., keep the sales tax at bay.

But, as the economy collapses and revenues fall we may be in for a surprise.....Politicians don't want to cut spending and they can only raise cig and booze taxes so high.

Needless to say, when the unthinkable is proposed it'll begin as a mere 1% sales tax.

But, that won't last long. In no time it'll be equal to NJ (7%), after gradually increasing to match PA and MD. (6%)

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-15   15:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-05-15   17:06:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: X-15 (#4)

Those are beautiful cars. Wouldn't mind having one of each.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-05-15   17:36:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: farmfriend, Turtle (#14)

LOL tell us how you really feel.

Yeah, I could tell he was holding back. You caught that too, eh?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-05-15   17:38:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: IRTorqued (#20)

the establishment of the RNCFR and the DNCFR run and back (not necessarily in that order) persons who have no use for the constitution.

A rare case indeed when anyone gets by their vetting process who has actually read the Constitution.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-05-15   17:40:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: X-15 (#4)

Thanks much for the Cobra rabbit hole - to this day, I remember the first Cobra I saw on the Drag here in '65.

What a piece of work.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-15   18:15:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)

No income tax in TX, but the 8.25p/c sales tax is a choker.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-15   18:21:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Lod, HOUNDDAWG (#28)

No income tax in TX, but the 8.25p/c sales tax is a choker.

Try living in Sacramento. You have both! Sales tax is 8.75.


"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831

farmfriend  posted on  2010-05-15   19:47:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: farmfriend (#29)

A gorgeous, but over-run, and insane state.

Been there, done that.

No mas.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-15   20:05:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Lod (#28)

No income tax in TX, but the 8.25p/c sales tax is a choker.

Here in Hoosierhickistan we we have a state income tax, county income tax [COIT], city income tax [CEDIT], 7% sales tax, and a 1% additional county entertainment tax on top of the sales tax [restaraunts, bars, movies, etc.]. No smoking in ANY establishment in the city limits.

15 police per square mile to make sure it's all strictly enforced.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-05-15   20:09:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: DeaconBenjamin (#0)

A POLITICAL INSURRECTION HAS BEGUN

I'll believe that if and when 60% or more of the Congress is booted out. I remember reading that even during the "Republican Revolution" the incumbent reelection rate was above 90%.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-05-15   20:10:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Esso (#31)

Entertainment tax?

You have to be shiiteing us.

Porn, donkey shows, or what the heck is an entertainment tax?

You guys look to .gov for your entertainment?

Lord, help us all.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-15   20:34:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Lod (#33) (Edited)

I guess the goob figures if you got the bux to afford to go out to eat or a movie, you got the bux to give the goob.

The tax was supposed to go away when renovations to the Memorial Coliseum were paid for. That occured about 15 years ago, but the tax lingers on.

Any business owner that opposes it is pilloried in the media as un-American, un- patriotic, hates the city, hates America, supports terrorists, etc.

FWIW, the last time when I was in a movie theater was when Alien came out, and haven't patronized a restaraunt/bar since Clinton was prez.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-05-15   20:44:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#32)

A POLITICAL INSURRECTION HAS BEGUN

I'll believe that if and when 60% or more of the Congress is booted out. I remember reading that even during the "Republican Revolution" the incumbent reelection rate was above 90%.

That would be the consummation of a political insurrection, not the beginning of one.

he who wants bread is the servant of the man that will feed him, if a man thus feeds a whole people, they are under his control.

DeaconBenjamin  posted on  2010-05-15   22:39:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Esso (#34)

FWIW, the last time when I was in a movie theater was when Alien came out, and haven't patronized a restaraunt/bar since Clinton was prez.

You're a better man than I, my last walk-up was Grease.

Now, I wait for Mrs.L to call me when something semi-worthwhile comes on the DirecTv.

And that's not all that often.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-15   23:04:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: DeaconBenjamin (#35)

That would be the consummation of a political insurrection, not the beginning of one.

You make a good point.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-05-16   0:04:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Esso (#34)

the last time when I was in a movie theater was when Alien came out,

What was that, '76?

Last movie I saw was Starship Troopers, must be over 10 year ago.

“No amount of reason, evidence, logic or rational argument will ever convince the true believer otherwise.”

Turtle  posted on  2010-05-16   15:19:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Eric Stratton (#23)

...and NY at 8%. Or is it 8 1/2% now?

"New York has a 4% state sales tax.[89] All counties and some cities add local taxes ranging from 3% to 4.75%. The combined sales tax in Utica, New York, for example, is 8.75%. In New York City, total sales tax is 8.875%, which includes 0.375% charged for the service of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority."__wiki

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-17   10:57:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Esso (#31)

15 police per square mile to make sure it's all strictly enforced.

freeeeeeeedom

christine  posted on  2010-05-17   11:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Lod. farmfriend (#28) (Edited)

Lod wrote: "No income tax in TX, but the 8.25p/c sales tax is a choker."

farmfriend wrote: "Try living in Sacramento. You have both! Sales tax is 8.75."

Well Lod, ol' buddy, at least you don't have to sign under penalty of perjury to pay a sales tax. CA's Franchise Tax Board (You work in CA? You have a taxable franchise then!") is nastier and more aggressive than the Infernal Revenue Service. And, the FTB won't take a position on just what is taxable income. As with most states they say that if the IRS says it is then you owe the states too, thereby skirting the whole issue of an unconstitutional wage tax.

It's ironic because when PA was debating their state income tax it was specifically asked and answered, and it was made clear that under no circs would this proposed tax apply to the average Joe working for wages. It was (like the federal tax) a tax on profit or gain from corporate activity, stocks and savings accounts and not on wages, which were a direct trade of labor for cash.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-17   11:10:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: HOUNDDAWG, warmfriend, 4 (#41)

I learned the joy of state income taxes when we inherited property in IA and OK.

More crap to enhance our accountant's bottom line.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-17   11:23:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Esso (#34) (Edited)

The tax was supposed to go away when renovations to the Memorial Coliseum were paid for. That occured about 15 years ago, but the tax lingers on.

Any business owner that opposes it is pilloried in the media as un-American, un- patriotic, hates the city, hates America, supports terrorists, etc.

Connecticut had several tolls on Interstate 95 for years that were supposed to be removed after CT's share of the new interstate highway (proposed by Ike) was paid off. (Here in DE it was cut through marshy wetlands at a million dollars a mile) It was paid off in CT and yet the toll remained until a citizen's group sued the bastard politicians and forced the toll's removal.

When I was a young, over-the-road-musician I couldn't drive 5 miles north of NY City on 95 without hitting another toll (or falling into a dinosaur footprint! hah) and it was obvious to all motorists on vacation and to many trucking companies that they were being ripped off by greedy hacks. It really was so blatant that even a federal judge could see it.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-17   11:33:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Lod (#42)

I learned the joy of state income taxes when we inherited property in IA and OK.

More crap to enhance our accountant's bottom line.

This why a living will is never spoken of in polite lawyer company. It eliminates those taxes and transfer fees.

This is why lawyers do their worst to make oldsters uneasy about their kids and relatives. They want seniors to believe that families can't be trusted (but lawyers can) and if a living will is in effect the surviving family will somehow swindle the poor old souls before they pass....

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-17   17:27:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: HOUNDDAWG, 4 (#44) (Edited)

Trust me, we've learned that a well-drawn will is more than enough to close an estate, the hard way.

The smart way to do things, is to gift what you want, while you're still alive, and have your last check be made to the undertaker, and have it bounce.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-17   19:32:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Lod (#45)

have your last check be made to the undertaker, and have it bounce.

May I use that as my tagline? I love it!

“we were respected as the most disinterested and charitable nation in the world.” - Robert A. Taft

Dakmar  posted on  2010-05-17   19:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Dakmar (#46)

Go for it.

(If I remembered how to do tags, I might have used it myself) ;-)

Lod  posted on  2010-05-17   21:08:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Dakmar (#46)

May my last check be to the undertaker, and may it bounce.

I believe that is the original wish of a prospective decedent.

RIP, in due time, my friend.

Use it in good health.

Lod  posted on  2010-05-17   21:13:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Lod (#47)

(If I remembered how to do tags, I might have used it myself)

How's this? I though it looked pretty damned classy!

“have your last check be made to the undertaker, and have it bounce. ” - Lod

Dakmar  posted on  2010-05-17   21:17:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Lod (#45)

The smart way to do things, is to gift what you want, while you're still alive, and have your last check be made to the undertaker, and have it bounce.

If you were here I'd buy you a drink!

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-05-24   2:46:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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