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Title: The Civil War Begins - Arizona threatens to cut off power to Los Angeles over immigration law boycott
Source:
www.abc15.com
URL Source: http://www.abc15.com/content/financ ... on/RBINaWwt1kOaUTJxnHs5Xg.cspx
Published: May 19, 2010
Author: by: Dave Biscobing
Post Date: 2010-05-19 08:46:23 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 1937
Comments: 139
Arizona energy official calls L.A.'s bluff on total boycott Reported by: Dave Biscobing Email: dbiscobing@abc15.com Last Update: 5/18 11:16 pm PHOENIX -- Last week, Los Angeles officially boycotted Arizona to send a message about the state's new immigration law. Now, the Arizona Corporation Commission is sending back a message of their own. On Tuesday, Commissioner Gary Pierce wrote a letter to the Los Angeles Mayor and City Council. He said the intention was to "call them out," and see if they are committed to truly cut off all Arizona resources. "I don't think they thought this through," Pierce said. "There are consequences that involve energy." Across Arizona, Los Angeles gets 25 percent of its power from three plants, including the Palo Verde Nuclear Station. The state can't literally pull the plug as the city owns the power. But if tough-talking Los Angeles officials really decide to go through with this boycott fully, then they will have to go without this electricity. "You can't call a boycott on the candy store and then pick and choose the candy you really want," Pierce said. "You either boycott or you don't." However, Los Angeles councilmembers have been perhaps the most outspoken about Senate Bill 1070. "We want them to be the last state to do this," Councilmember Janice Hahn said after the city first threatened boycotts. "We think we have a lot of leverage over that state." "This is not a paper resolution. It is real," added Councilmember Ed Reyes after the boycott was approved. When the Los Angeles City Council made their vote, they were given a report that contained information about the city's contracts with Arizona. It did not include agreements about water and power. "I think this boycott is going to backfire," Pierce said. "And they are just going to want it to go away." After the letter was sent, the Arizona Corporation Commission said by the end of the day, they received dozens of calls and more than 100 emails in support from officials of 18 different states.
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#1. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Pull the plug.
LMFAO! Literally! This is just so fucking rich! Pull the plug. Go ahead, do it. Please? Teach those useless liberal criminal mf's a lesson they will never forget. And just in time for summer too! Thank you M_V. You just made my day! .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Yes, it does doesn't it? This isn't something to desire, lots of innocent people, truly innocent like kids and sick folks, are going to be in a world of pain if "something" comes to pass. The only silver lining, for our family anyway, is that we're relatively young (early 40's), mobile, fit and self sufficient. Looks like all the prayer in the world didn't solve any of this. We appear to be headed into a big ass bloody confrontation. Be ready, be patient, lay low I guess.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Our garden this year is huge. Even have blueberry bushes planted, early summer yielders and mid-late summer yielders. If push comes to shove, we have 51,500 heirloom non-hybrid seeds for a variety of foods that grow in this region (veges, melons, herbs, etc) that can be planted across the entire back yard that could sustain us for years if need be (though honestly we'll probably retreat to 40 acres out in the country that is being bequeathed to us soon).
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
We're zone 5(b). Where you live is mostly 5 in the north-central, with a range across your state of 5a to 6b. Figure on lots of tomatoes, green peppers, onions, potatoes, garlic, beans, chili peppers, lettuce, cabbage, etc. If you're in the southern part of your state, you could even swing tobacco successfully. That sir, would be a much better "investment" than gold right there, talk about a good trading crop! Berries and vines (think raspberries, blueberries, blackberries, hops) take at least a year to establish with no return, with some of the fruiting bushes taking up to 3 years before a return. That said, after 3 years, you're golden for another 50+. Yeah, 40 acres of land that is being used even now for farming. Rich, rich soil. Where we live now we have a decent garden, but it can't match 40 acres of Growing Goodness. :)
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I am trying to get as much as I can out of my limited space. I added 5 blueberries, 3 Raspberries, 2 Gooseberries, 2 Currants, and about 50 Strawberry Plants this year. One way to save money on plants is to go wholesale by putting together a group order, a buying club, and order enough to get the wholesale price. Hartmann's Nursery, one of the best for Blueberries (and they have others - currants, Black Raspberries, Arctic Raspberries, Alpine Strawberries, etc., ...., is a good one to go to. Their wholesale minimum is 100 plants of any kind. Of course you still pay the shipping - and they all have to go to one location, but you still save a bundle over going to a local nursery and they sell a quality product. Another good one is Nourse Farms, and Oikos Tree Crops here in the NW. Not all mail order operations are good though. The best way to check someone out is to read their history on the "Garden Watchdog". Just do a search on the company and it will bring up its ratings from people who have actually ordered from them.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
http://www.veggieharvest.com/Vegetable-Planting-Calendar/zone-6-vegetable-planting-calendar/
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
We have raspberries already, but only on year 2 with them, so they may or may not bear fruit this year. Blueberries were planeted just recently so they're going to be a while before we get anything off of them. Strawberries, check, we have 10 plants out right now. Tomatoes grow insane here, and we normally harvest ~80 to 120 pounds from our "normal" planting, which we've tripled this year, so it's going to be a busy canning and dehydrating season come late summer. We've tripled pretty much everything at this point. We're fortunate enough to have really inexpensive starting plants at local stores, and are in a rather pleasant financial position right now that we don't have to worry about costs too much. If we lose our jobs, or "something" happens, then we dig into the 51,500 heirloom seeds and plant costs go away forever.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Looks like we're in zone 6 actually, 6b. You have a good site for appropriateness there? And yeah, tobacco would no doubt be very good. Zone 6b gives you a lot of options. I am 8a and have more na, na, na-na. Kidding aside you can grow most tree crops, except citrus, apples, pears, plums, peaches, and nectarines. Most berries are hardy in your zone and it is warm enough to grow short season melons in the summer. Winter hardy Leeks and Cabbage can be left in the field till needed, as well as overwintering carrots. Most lettuces and other greens can be grown well into the Fall and again in late winter/early spring. The late and early would have to be done with protection, but a simple tunnel system can be made from plastic pipe and Tufflite IV Greenhouse plastic. A good source for tree fruits, and a lot of berries, is Raintree Nursery which has about the most extensive selection, and good quality, that I know of.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
If you check out a garden store you'll find that you can pick up either predator urine (fox, coyote, etc) that you spray around the perimeter of your garden, or you can get a solution of putrid egg whites/garlic that you spray directly on the plants about 1 time per month. The smell goes away after an hour in dry conditions for the human nose. Squirrels can be tricky, but they generally don't burrow *under* a garden like a rabbit will. We have rabbits out the wazoo here, and out in the country deer are a big problem. I suspect that if "it" happens though, we'll welcome with open buckshot...er...arms, our little fury friends.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Yes to apples, those will thrive there. Grapes too I believe, and pears and peaches. Keep in mind that most fruiting trees need at least two trees for cross pollination, otherwise you won't get any fruit. If you're so inclined and can find land where you can set aside 1/4 acre or so, crops like wheat or barley would be advisable too, unless you dislike bread, beer, pastries and cake. :)
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
A good book to have then is "From Seed to Seed" A seed saver's handbook. Most seeds are easy to save but some require some specialized knowledge - Carrots come to mind - they are a biennial and do not produce seed until the second year. I was fortunate on my Blueberries in that I got some older 3 year plants from a local co-op and will likely get a small crop this year. My Raspberries are the same, and all are doing well. I alreay have berries forming on the Rubel plant and the 2 "Little Giants" (I have 4 varieities in 5 plants - did it on purpose as blueberries produce a larger yield from cross pollenization). The cheapest prices I have found on Strawberries was through Peaceful Valley Farm Supply in Northern California - 7.99 per pound of plants (about 30 to 35 plants per pound) on Seascape which is a good "Day Neutral" variety which will produce a large crop in June but will continue producing lightly till Fall. I keep losing track but I have about 12 to 14 varieties of tomato this year and 9 melon varieties, and with the garden usuals - carrots, squash, spuds, etc., .... Since, with rare exceptions, I only grow heirloom or open pollinated varieties I can save seed off any of the plants I grow.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Spinach, peas, carrots, broccoli are quick, so is lettuce (but it seems pretty low nutritionally). Tomatoes aren't quite as "quick" but they yield a ton of product per plant per season. Things like corn take planning and land enough for at least 4+ decent rows, so that's out. Potatoes are not terribly fast, they're a three month-ish wait, but their yield can be quite large. They do take up space though. Wheat and barley take up space, but a good harvest of wheat or barley can last you a year or longer and requires little storage specialization (debug it, seal it, ta da).
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
We're ALL Arizonans now!!!
Well, I'm 60, I live in the middle of the mountains, fit, given my age, and I'm really, really, really PISSED OFF. Let me be careful with my choice of words here.....I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT. That said, I don't give a flying fig if the local LEOs are good, bad or indifferent. When the SHTF I'll have lived a life way beyond my wildest expectations, and will exit, stage right, way ahead of the game. Remember, no one leaves this place alive, it's all a matter of when.
Hydroponics is really only good for winter growing or growing dope IMHO. For immediate planting - Tomatoes, Potatoes, Corn, Pole Beans, Snap Peas, most bean varieties, Anasazi Beans are a good choice, Carrots, Cabbage, Brussel Sprouts, Leeks, Onions both bulbing and green types, greens of all kinds (although choose varieites that are slow to bolt i.e., go to seed), Zucchini, Winter Squash, short season melons such as Emerald Gem, Kazahk, Ogen, for watermelon - Blacktail Mountain, Early Yellow Moonbeam, Quetzali, Cream of Saskatchewan, Cucumbers - both fresh and pickling, herbs - Dill, Basil, Oregano, Rosemary (but you'll have to protect it in the winter since most varieties will not survive an extented freeze), Cilantro, Italian Parsley, Summer Savory, French Thyme, Tarragon (same as Rosemary - protect from freezing). However, to simplify - Baker Creek Seed Company is selling a "Homesteader's Package on their website and they are about the same climate zone as you. Another good source is The Seed Saver's Exchange. Check with your local extension office for info, hand outs, soil analysis, and local Master Gardener's who might be willing to consult either free or for a small fee. I wrote a garden guide for Artisan a year or two ago which he shared around with other people. The original is on a dead hard drive but I might have a copy of it in my saved PM's Folder. I think I might have posted it as well but don't recall. I'll see if I can find it. It is about 25 pages, and while it could use some revising, and was well received when I first wrote it. More to follow.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You'll also want to only use heirloom/non-hybrid seeds, otherwise you're good for one year and after that you may end up with significantly less to absolutely nothing. So, seed saving is good to know. http://www.seedsave.org/issi/issi_904.html
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
There are several strategies for growing potatoes in limited space. You can plant them in a trash can half full of soil mix and slowly fill it as the plants grow, or you can use SmartPots in the 20 gallon size. I prefer the SmartPots, and use them for a lot of stuff - I have almost 20 of them now. You can mail order them or if you are lucky, like me, there may be a local store that sells them. They are a very good solution for people with limited space.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Good link, will look into those, thanks!
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
This thread is screaming for some Pat Travers.......Boom, Boom--Out go the Lights. lol
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So, seed saving is good to know. I'll second that. The key words to look for are heirloom or Open Pollinated (often abbreviated (OP). That means that the plants are genetically stable and produce viable seed. F2 Hybrids (not F1) are stable hybrids.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
You're most welcome.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Let me add an edit: before I plan to survive on Mulligan Stew from a secret "victory garden", I plan to be buried in one after having dispatched as many walking vegetables as I possibly can.
With tomatoes you can even get those things that they advertise to hang them to grow them, that's probably a really good way of doing those and they can probably hang indoors during the winter I'm guessing. Sounds like peas and carrots are a good way to go. Do you have to can them to preserve them? Peas and carrots will both dehydrate or freeze. If you freeze I would reccomend buying an inexpensive vacuum packer to help prevent freezer burn, and they are good for dehydrated too as it helps inhibit mold from any residual moisture. Tomatoes can be brought indoors but you need a sunny window or grow lights or both. The upside down planters are fine for smaller bush type plant varieties but I would not recommend most heirlooms in them as they tend to be very big plants (I have had Brandywines get 8 feet high and so loaded they broke the supports). Gardener's Supply has a good selection of them and they also sell a metal "tree" that you can hang them from. That said my late Aunt, a Master Gardener, once grew an heirloom cherry tomato in her living room - damn thing reached all the way to the ceiling and was still producing all the way into winter.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
We're trying one out this year actually! :) You don't have to worry about hanging it inside though. You'll be putting new vines in it every year. No, you could dehydrate them if you wanted.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Take a big big honor guard with you. Home made claymores are good for that.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
States rights FTMFW!!!!
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Got a much better plan. Have for years now. And trust me, If I get hungry enough, I'm going "shopping" at my neighbors victory garden. He best but lots of toothpicks to keep his eyes open :P
Glad to be of any help. Will do on the garden guide.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Also, I'm pretty novice when it comes to this stuff, so the more foolproof the better. Potatoes?
I had a first time too - also growing potatoes. What I used the first time for limited space was one of those open bottom plastic compost bins - the ones that are a plastic sheet, with holes in the side, that you hook together with wing-nuts - the metal kind. You start by putting a layer of compost and straw in the bottom, lay in your seed potatoes about 12 inches apart, cover with compost, and wait for them to start sprouting and growing. As they grow up you just add extra straw and compost to cover the lower few inches of the plants, let them grow some more, and repeat as they grow. Potatoes, like tomatoes, will produce new roots from the buried part of the stalks. In the case of potatoes more roots = more potatoes. Just remember that potatoes are heavy feeders and require plenty of water. Use a good liquid fertilizer fortified with a little extra liquid calcium. The only way to learn is to just do it. I started out knowing very little, but here 20 some odd years down the road I am finally a little less ignern't. However, I still learn new stuff every year.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
That's a good tune.....I can see why you like that video Eric. lol More in line with the gardening, I've found this Garden Song with muppets. : ) Inch by Inch Row by Row
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
lol.......we need Captain Vegtable to round up those veggies for some singing lessons.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I think the best thing to do would be to buy a bunch of rice. Rice and beans. Stock up. The more the better. Put the bags of rice in garbage bags and put the garbage bags in big tupperware containers. Then bury them. Don't tell anyone where you buried them. Not ever your wife. lol : )
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
LOL Yes, good "garden" defense mechanisms. I know how to make all sorts of handy "garden defense" "tools". Did you know that a light coating of dirt can be supported by the moss around a bunch of needle sharp spikes? Looks just like solid ground. What kind of a fiend would set something like that up? And then put jellied gasoline in there to boot? 1001 uses for old styrofoam. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
No, no. Share it with her and them of course. Just don't tell them where it is cuz that way they can never let the secret out. The coveted rice will be safe.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I have the same reaction to what we see in D.C. There is nothing happening in that land of ne'er-do-wells that will ever make our lives easier, more productive and/or more meaningful. I, too, have lived a life that has given me so much more than I ever contemplated -- all 72+ years!!! I just hope that when I make my exit I can still carry on good conversation with some of those I have so enjoyed here ... and maybe even get some graphics from you, Flint and Lucomo. LOL
I can get graphic at times - but not with someone old enough to be, err, uh, a big sister?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I understand your hesitation (err, uh, a big sister) in addressing "big". Don't worry, I won't bite. By the way, I stole some of your gardening expertise. I don't wanna die without a full stomach!!!
Be nice man. If somebody was prescient enough to grow a good garden to survive on, they're on our side. Stealing would just be wrong in that case. Now if you wanted to knock over a government "relief" cheese truck, sign me up as a helping hand on that one. :)
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
You can get Excalibur dehydrators (the only brand I would ever recommend) off eBay for ~$149.00 and up. Adjustable thermostat, and get the 15 square foot drying space types, the more the better. Those things dry super fast compared to the crap 'as seen on TV!' ones that take forever and make huge messes.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Yes. It's a tool to use for immediate dehydrating of things you can buy from the store (veges/fruits and some jerky). You can put through tons of produce in one of those very quickly, seal it in vacuum bags and if you do it enough, be good for a year or at least a couple of months. Since time is of the essence, it seems like the best tool for the job. After electricity goes out, you can fall back on either canning, or construct a no electricity dehydrator out of wood, mesh screen and a decent sized window (assuming you have a hand drill and saws). Of course you could just lay the stuff out on the back porch in the sun, but I have something of an issue letting swarms of flies defecate all over drying food. Rice is a semi-poor storage staple, it will last you a year tops unless you freeze dry it and #10 can it. Whole kernel wheat and beans on the other hand, will keep you in bread and beans for a long time (don't forget to hold back lots of salt as well, which stores indefinitely). Ensure that if you have whole grain anything, that you have a good hand grinder. No matter what you choose though, if it is bulk stuff like grains/rice/beans, ensure that you kill any critter eggs in it before you store it in oxygen free mylar bags (stuffed inside 5 gallon buckets). It's an easy thing to do, get some dry ice, put a 5-6 gallon mylar bag in a 5 gallon bucket, fill it half way with the staple, throw in a chunk of dry ice, fill the rest of the way with the staple, throw in another chunk of dry ice, and put the lid on the bucket loosely, let the air bleed out. Seal the bucket after that and let the CO2 kill all the critter eggs. Seal the bag with a household iron after throwing a desiccant inside and you're good for 5-7 years most of the time (and probably a year after you open it).
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
All grain contains critter eggs, Eric. Even milling flour doesn't destroy them. Keep a bag of flour long enough and you will see teeny mealy bug worms spawning in it, even if you've kept it sealed.
I see psyops everywhere.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Processors work under the assumption that you aren't going to store the product long term, so you can't count on there NOT being critter eggs in the product. It's always best to be safe and debug everything from a dry goods/grain perspective. Last thing you want is to have your last 50 pounds of rice, that you need to keep you family alive just long enough to let garden produce come in, be full of worms. The cost of dry ice is nominal and it only takes a few minutes per batch. I'm not terribly thrilled with those. I mean yes, they work great for normal home use in normal times, especially to help prevent freezer burn and extend freezer life, or to seal stuff for camping. But ultimately plastic lets air and light in, and the food WILL degrade. The machines they sell in the store, IMHO, are good for normal "good" times use only, not long term storage. http://www.usaemergencysupply.com is where I buy my bags and desiccants. Good prices, extremely fast shipping. I normally get the non-resealable ones for the 5-6 gallon bags, quite a few non-resealable ones for 1-2 gallon bags, and then a bundle of resealable ones for everyday use after you'd open a non-resealable. You bet! Squeeze out air (carefully), throw in a handful of dessicants, lay the edge of the bag on a 2x4 piece of wood, iron it shut, throw the bag in a 5 gallon plastic bucket, label the bucket, seal it, you're good for 5-7 years.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Yep, the things in the eggs are living, and without air seeping through the egg shell, they can't breath and die. I've heard people deep freezing them as well, but I'm not certain that would work well, don't use that method myself. Figure nature already has natural "deep freezes" that bugs always seem to survive.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
From everything I've read, this is supposed to be effective. The CO2 storage procedure is on my program the next couple of weeks, Eric.
I see psyops everywhere.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
You only leave it ajar for a minute or two, enough to let the oxygen out from CO2 pressure, then you seal it up and let it stand a while (I do an hour, but I'm rather paranoid sometimes about bugs in food). After that, unseal, pour into bag, throw in desiccants, iron it shut, put bucket lid back on, label, you're golden.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
They do in mine. I have the 5 gallon orange buckets/lids I get from Home Depot for like $4.00 each, sturdy enough. The bucket only serves to provide hard walled protection around the mylar bags, and also to provide a place to de-bug product, nothing more.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Don't get me wrong, some great info here for those who want to save a buck, but this isn't about survival, IMO. I went thru this heavily when I was convinced the earth was going to end when the clocks struck midnight, 010100. IMO, if people are hungry, and signs of food exist in your home, garden, roof or tub, you will have your hands full, regardless of which side anyone is on. Again, no offense intended, I'm simply saying people eat each other when confronted with true survival.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. Debug first, then put a bag in a bucket and pour the debugged product into the bag. Seal. The bags must be stored in the buckets, as mylar is highly susceptible to having holes poked into it. A bucket per 5-6 gallon bag is what you'll ultimately want. :) Some people debug right in the mylar (mylar in bucket, product in bag, debug, seal, close bucket lid, done).
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I meant just you. Don't want those on "our" side robbing me blind. Ask for some food and I'll give what I can. Steal at midnight and ten to one you won't even hear the shot. :) When it gets to the point of roaming bands of cannibals, I suspect we'll already be at our farm out in the country. Folks out there are already more or less self sufficient and we already know most of them well. Bands of cannibal zombies don't stand a chance against a town full of well armed well fed sharp shooting country boys.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
Depends on what you have in it and how your family eats honestly. High calorie, high nutrition items like grains and beans can go quite a while if you're frugal. You'll need to implement and follow dietary regimens that you probably aren't used to right now. If you can manage to secure some meat or if you pressure can meat now, that will really help pack on the calories and extend the usefulness of a bucket exponentially. Don't ration food so much in an emergency that you have no energy to get more once it runs out. If you can get 2000 calories per day in, you're set. The best way to know is to try "the way" for a while and see how it pans out. You'll need to know how to make the things from the grains and beans that keep everybody interested in eating. Starving, believe it or not, sometimes doesn't induce people to eat if what they have to eat they find distasteful (strange but true). Rotate through a bucket and unseasoned meat and plain veges for a while, see how long it lasts, what spices you really wanted and what you ran out of first, etc, to give you a baseline. Beans? Whatever you like really, they're all pretty damned good for you. They lose nutritional value fast though through age, so ensure that once you decide you get them stored and out of oxygen fast. We like pinto and navy beans.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
I understand, and as I said earlier in this thread, I'll personally be fertilizer for your garden before the very hungry hordes come - and come they will. So I'm not your potential problem. My investment in lead was never intended to defend a pea patch. Nothing personal, but should this end time survival scenario actually come, I'll be the lucky one having chosen to depart on my terms, early on.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I can't remember what thread it was on and I should have saved it when I saw it, but I believe it was you who mentioned a certain grain to grown in the garden. I believe it began with an "a". Thanks for your help.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
My fruits are doing pretty well. Have to work on the Raspberries. They are in year two and will produce some fruit, but they should be further along and they are. I didn't handle the drainage and soil right the first go-round. So when I fix it over the next couple weeks, they should do much better late this season and especially next. I have four Blueberry bushes, but these are only the 2-4 foot variety and will produce fruit only once a season starting in a few weeks. I need at least two more of the type that grows 4-6 feet and produces twice a year. I'm near a local nursery that has some. My strawberries have done very well. 6 plants have become 18 and they are producing good fruit now. I've discovered you don't need many strawberry plants to wind up with a lot. They send out runners and sprout up new plants throughout the growing season. I'm lucky enough to have a mature self-pollinating Red Delicious. I've paired it with a Gala that is in year two and I am letting it fruit this year.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
Good for you! I'm hankering for some berry fruit, bad. We have 2 x 6 foot mid-late summer blueberries, and 2 x 4 foot early summer blueberries. Wish we didn't have to wait forever for them to produce.
MapQuest really needs to start their directions on #5. Pretty sure I know how to get out of my neighborhood.
I saw a guy out here grow a metric assload of potatoes in a small suburban backyard using stacked discarded tires...same idea...fill/grow/fill/grow...then he'd just peel off a tire when he wanted some spuds. Those tires were stacked over four feet tall with potatoes growing all the way down.
Yup, I'm familiar with the tactic, and it does work quite well. Not very purdy but very functional.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Talk about topic drift. LOL Not a complaint, just saying...
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Depending upon your zone that is possible - but mainly in the south. For more production Legend or Rubel would be a good choice. Both produce a smaller wild-like blueberry. Rubel in particular, which was originally a selection from the wild, is prized for its flavor and is considered by many to be the best pie blueberry. Rubel reaches 6 to 8 feet at maturity and will produce as much as 15 pounds per plant. As a side note - Raintree Nursery is having their annual clearance and has some good buys on berries.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
There was a show on PBS a few days ago about growing gardens in junk. Or was it garbage?
“have your last check be made to the undertaker, and have it bounce. ” - Lod
Thhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhppppppp! "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
LOL
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Could be either - people make planters out of the strangest things - such as old toilet bowls.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And you want to root those runners and expand. Strawberries reach their peak production and then produce good for about 3 years and then begin to decline after that and so those rooted runners are your future production. Once the nodes on the runners have rooted you can snip the runner, dig out a goodly sized root ball and move them to where you need or want them.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
HUNNERT!!!!!!!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yep. Will do. That's how my original six became 18 and truth be told, it was/is more than that. I have let a small patch have it and do whatever it wants. I decided I wanted a managed section and another for the critters. Was not aware of their relatively short life span- thank you. I'm in Asheville, zones 6a and 7a.
"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
If you're so inclined and can find land where you can set aside 1/4 acre or so, crops like wheat or barley would be advisable too, unless you dislike bread, beer, pastries and cake. :) One Apple I know of, Queen Cox, is self fertile. I know Raintree Nursery sells them both at the store and on line. I wish I had room for grains. Amaranth is another good one - I like the flavor and it is the only grain that contains all essential amino acids. By using trees on the extra-dwarfing Emla 27 Rootstock apple trees can be kept to a very manageable 6 feet high with a 6 to 8 foot spacing thus making it possible to have a small orchard in a small space. There are also dwarf cherries that are self fertile. Pears require a little more room, as there is no mini-dwarf rootstock, and on the available dwarfing rootstock will reach 12 to 14 feet. Still manageable though. The mini-dwarf apple trees can be grown in a 65 gallon SmartPot. The SmartPots were originally developed for tree growers but are also very useful for container gardening - particularly in containing plants that will expand and get unruly like Raspberries and Blackberries. I have my Raspberries in 25 gallon SmartPots.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Blueberries grown in SmartPots are very low maintenance. Mostly watering, fertilizing, and a little, and I do mean little, weeding. 5 bushes in containers, once set up, should take no more than ten minutes a day if that. For hardy half high bushes I would reccomend a 15 or 20 gallon, and for larger varieties a 20 or 25 gallon. I have 2 half high bushes in 15 gallon pots, and 2 Little Giants, and a Rubel in 20's. If I had to all of them could probably fit in a 5'x7' plot. The main things to know about blueberries is that they require a very acid soil PH 4.5 to 5.0 and that you need at least 2 varieties for cross pollination and maximum fruit production. If I was limited to two - in your climate zone I would reccomend 1 Rubel and 1 Little Giant. Both produce a nice "wild-like" berrie and at full growth produce about 15 pounds per plant per year. Acidifying the soil is easy to accomplish by adding about a cup of horticultural sulfur to the soil mix, distributed throughout as you fill them, for the pots. Since the sulfur takes about a year to fully lower the PH you definitely need a high acid fertilizer the first year. I used "Happy Frog" for acid loving plants and they are thriving. I also supplement with Algoflash All Purpose and a little liquid calcium. Blueberries like extra nitrogen when fruiting so a high nitrogen fertilizer helps to maximize fruit production. Raspberries also like a slightly acid soil but more around PH 5.5 to 6.0. Same on the nitrogen. Strawberries prefer a more neutral soil but also want extra nitrogen for best fruiting.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oh, Strawberries will continue to produce beyond that, but it is just that they peak out and then get "tired" producing progressively fewer berries each year. Raspberries will do the same at about the 12 year mark. Blueberries will still be producing when your grandchildren have children as they are known to last at least 50 to 60 years.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
All grain contains critter eggs, Eric. Even milling flour doesn't destroy them. Keep a bag of flour long enough and you will see teeny mealy bug worms spawning in it, even if you've kept it sealed. That reminds me of a sealed box of Quaker Oats that I opened up and then immediately trashed. It was disgusting the damn bugs had webs and probably 2 generations of the bastards in there.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
My 5 Blueberries, once they reach maturity, should produce somewhere between 50 and 65 pounds of blueberries each year. The two blueberry plants I suggest, Rubel and Little Giant, would produce 25 to 30 pounds at maturity (around 15 pounds per plant). 1 Queen Cox will, on ultra dwarfing rootstock, produce about 1/2 box of apples per year. 3 Raspberries in containers about ten pounds per container depending upon variety.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Strawberries, most varieties, send out tendrils called runners - they are in that fashion like a spreading ground cover. On the tendrils, or runners, they produce nodes, kind of like "Hens and Chicks", that are basically little strawberry plants and you'll notice them as they do form leaves and look like little button strawberry plants. It is one of the reproduction strategies for strawberries - which also produce seeds. So, the little nodes will produce roots, and when well rooted you can cut the tendril and you have a natural clone of the parent. You can speed that up by making sure they are upright and mounding a little dirt around their base.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Reminds me of the time I found mouse turds all over our kitchen counters. Finally trapped the little bastard. Fortunately it was just one. One of the advantages of having cats that are good "mousers" is that any mice that are unfortunate enough to make it inside tend to have short lifespans. ;-) I remember one that got in and had a particular covered path of travel, but had to scamper across a hallway to get from the closet to the kitchen. My cat Stormy basically camped out for 3 days waiting for her chance, but she got her mouse. :-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
The advantage of cats is that they'll catch them "just for fun". Stormy, in particular, loved catching mice, but then she would just play with them till they "broke". Dusty however, ate them with relish (or without).
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Full sun is best. An easy way to prep for a garden, or any other new plantings, is to cover the spot with two to three inches of newspaper, held down with brick or something so that the paper doesn't blow away. In a few months, the pill-bugs, earthworms, etc. will have the plot ready to go. I put soaker hose in the bottom of the furrows, covered with mulch from lawn clippings. The plantings seemed to love it and we had enough produce to supply the cul-de-sac.
Not good for lettuce or other cool weather crops such as Snow Peas (once temperatures move stably into the 70's and above) - great for Tomatoes, Melons, Squash, Peas, Carrots, etc., .... Also good for Basil, Dill, Pickles, and most other annual herbs. Alpine Strawberries would do well, but they take a lot of room for a little production - however they are a wonderful gourmet treat. A perennial berry such as a black Raspberry (variety Jewell) would be a productive and tasty addition. I would put it on one end or the other so you could use hoops over the rest to extend the growing season. Lettuce would probably do good in it through November in your Climate Zone. Also Green Onions and leeks could likely be left standing most of the year. The cheapest way to build the border, if you don't already have lumber on hand, would be with cinder blocks (stacked 2 high) filled with a good rich mixture of compost, glacial rock dust (for its mineral content), and enough topsoil to hold it together. The holes in the cinderblocks can then be filled with soil and used as mini-planters for individual small herbs such as Basil and Parsley. Adding Coir fiber, which is cheap, would aid in moisture retention. More expensive, but more elegant, would be to use loose set stacked "wall rock" from a landscape supply yard. There are other rock options but they get more expensive. You can also buy manmade blocks that have a sandstone finish and those are very attractive too. Plant a few Marigolds, which repel aphids, to give it a homey country cottage look (I like the White Marigolds). My suggestion would be to carefully grid it out and use something resembling The Square Foot Planting System. With Poly Pipe and greenhouse plastic or Row Cover material it should make a good 3 season mini-farm capable of producing just about all the veggies you need for 2 people.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Definitely - I forgot that key garden helper. Once the Texas' summer heat stopped the tomato production, I'd cut the plants back to six inches, or so, and keep them alive until fall. With their root system ready to go, we had much better fall crops than we did that spring.
Interesting strategy on the 'maters, but it makes sense. Although you could try heat tolerant varieties such as "Arkansas Traveler" and "Costuloto Genovese". Depending on the temperatures using a shade cloth for the midday sun would be handy as well.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Also, same question to you, what kind of compost should I fill it with, just the local sand/fill seller's "compost?" Marigolds will bloom all summer. They're an annual but are easy to collect seed from - just let a few of the flowers wither until the petals look really ratty and then clip them off, peel off the leaves and remaining petals, then dry them ( a sunny window sill is fine, then gently rub the seeds out of the center and then plant next spring. Compost comes in several varieties. Manures and Vegetable Compost with or without manure added. One caution and a thing you want to double check and ensure is NOT in your compost is sludge from sewage treatment plants. While it is a good rich compost it has undesirables in it like heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, and residue from pesticides. The plants will pick up the heavy metals in particular and turn out beautiful veggies loaded with toxic heavy metals. Usually the bag will list the contents and their sources. If in doubt pick another brand or pay the extra money to buy organic compost. All vegetable composts are good for root crops, but they also tend to be looser and not hold water as well as composts with manure. So, I use both. When I built a new raised bed this year (about 4.5 x 9) I started with 1/2 yard of garden soil from the landscape supply and then used about 9 cubic feet of Vegetable (actually plant) compost, 1.5 cubic feet of composted chicken manure, 1 cubic foot of worm castings, 9 cubic feet of vegetable/plant compost, 9 cubic feet of mixed plant and manure compost, and about 4.5 cubic feet of steer manure. I also used a couple of 2 cubic foot bags of potting mix with coir fiber, and 25 pounds of mineral mix. Now building a bed as big as you are building is going to be expensive in the first year as you have to buy large quantities of soil and compost to fill a bed that size. Figuring the bed at 5 by 30 and 8 or 9 inches deep works out to about 14 cubic yards. That is if you go one cinderblock high. So, I got to thinking about how to cut costs without cutting essentials. The first would be to buy your baseline soil in bulk from a landscape supply yard. The one near me (which does you no good since I'm in Oregon) charges 25 dollars per cubic yard for garden soil. So 12 yards for the base is $300 versus triple or quadruple that if you bought it in bags unless you bought it by the pallet from a wholesaler. If you don't have a pick up most of them will deliver but there will be a "truck charge". However, for a job your size I'd pay the truck charge rather than making 12 pick up loads. Likely they also sell bulk compost and so you can buy a yard of compost as well to mix into the top layer, but that goes in after the soil so that is worth doing with a pick-up (1/2 ton or 3/4 ton to haul a full yard). Again check and make sure they don't use sewage sludge. If you have access to good soil elsewhere in your yard you can shave some of that off by wheel barrowing a few loads into the new plot. However, there is no getting around it you are going to need a lot of dirt to fill a bed that large. I went through 4 cubic yards this year filling a bunch of new large containers and in building my new bed. So, the order the materials go in (after prepping the area by loosening it with a rototiller and raking out the sod and weeds): Cinder Blocks or rock: (this is optional as you can build a mounded raised bed without a hard barrier wall). You'll want to put the bulk soil and whatnot down first if you are going to use a Rototiller - which I would recommend for a bed your size. Soil (about 10 to 12 cubic yards) Rake out and level in the bed. If you get this from another part of your yard to save money and it is heavy clay like mine then you'll want to add 5 or 10 bags of sand this first year. Compost About 1 to 2 cubic yards. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed. About 1/2 to 1 cubic yards of coir fiber - for moisture retention and loosening any clays in the soil. The cheapest is to again buy bulk if you can - my organic supply store sells it in 3 cubic foot compressed bricks which you add warm water to, to expand out. THIS IS NOT COCOA SHELLS WHICH ARE POISONOUS TO DOGS AND CATS. Coir fiber is made from shredded coconut shells and is not poisonous to pets. Make sure you know what you are getting. Chicken manure about 5 1.5 cubic foot sacks. Chicken Manure is a good natural fertilizer, although I don't rely on it alone. Most Chicken Manures are not fully composted - exceptions are Stutzman Farms and Whitney Farms which are my preferred brands here. You can tell the difference - if not fully composted it is going to stink like chicken shit for about 2 weeks. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed. Steer Manure (Optional but it is cheap and works well with tomatoes and strawberries) about 20 cubic feet. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed. A 50 pound bag of Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust (You might have to call around to find this - best bet is an organic farm supply store). This is to boost the mineral content of your soil and it contains many necessary and needed trace elements while still being relatively cheap. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed. (You'll add one of these every year to remineralize your soil from last years growing. Same is true for the upper layer of compost and chicken manure and optional fertilizer.) Optional but reccomended - a 25 or 50 pound bag of good Organic Fertilizer - again raked over the top of the bed. Now comes the hard work - work in all of the things you laid on top of each other into the upper 6 inches of the soil. A Rototiller is handy for this - particularly for a bed this size. In future years you can work it with a rake to not disturb the natural layering of the soil but in the first year you just want to get it set up and everything mixed in with the fewest blisters. Pour yourself a tall Lemonade. Drink the Lemonade. Now enjoy the satisfaction of knowing ou won't have to do this again next year. Basic Tool List of Essential Tools: A round Shovel. A Square Shovel. A good garden rake - don't scrimp on this as a good rake will last. A good garden fork - again don't scrimp - buy the best you can afford - Spear and Jackson is the best heirloom fork made, but they're about $60 to $70 these days. Mail Order Source: Lee Valley Tools - see their website. They also sell slightly less expensive but very serviceable forks. A good fork well cared for is a one time purchase. A good trowel (hand shovel) A good weeding hoe. I like the "Circle Hoe" for tight beds as you don't kill as many plants or damage their roots. Optional but handy is what is called a Korean Hand Plow. I have one and it is a great all purpose digger. Optional: A good potting soil scoop. Makes setting up pots so much easier.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Ping to above for your thoughts and anything I might have missed.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I was kind of guessing/hoping that the foundation would serve as your "back" wall. I built a similar arrangement, by hand, about 12 or so years ago. Not quite as large mine was about 5 by 20. I had a special problem with it as the ground was a prehistoric stream bed. So, I had to sift out, by hand, about a yard of river rock - which I washed and turned into a garden path under an oak tree. However, when I was done a spot that before had trouble growing weeds became a spectacular veggie garden. I grew some tomatoes back there that got so tall my neighbor called it my "Tomato Forest" - it was a Brandywine (a wonderful old Amish Heirloom) and I forget the other two. The Brandywine got so big it broke my bamboo supports.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Twenty inches is plenty deep enough for your planting bed - actually I figure "rule of thumb" 18 inches. I would still rototill the underbed and maybe add some sand and a little bit of pea gravel to loosen it so that deeper rooted plants like melons and squash can penetrate into it. Don't worry about fertilizing that deep though as nutrients will naturally filter down over time. Most of the action takes place in the upper soil i.e., the topsoil. So, what you will be doing over time is to increase the fertility of the soil from top to bottom. Water and drainage will carry minerals and nutrients down for you. Other considerations - since it backs to a wall - you want to lay out the garden with tall stuff in back and short stuff in front. So it might go Tomatoes (a side consideration on tomatoes is that their position should be rotated on a 3 year rotation to minimize disease so you might rotate left, right, center, left, right, center, etc., ...), pole beans, peas, and cucumbers going up supports in the back, then medium stuff like peppers, bush beans, melons, squash, cucumbers, broccoli, and cauliflower (also taller herbs like dill), then lettuce or other greens like spinach, chard, purslane, endive, etc., and then root crops in the very front area like carrots, beets, turnips, and rutabagas etc., and herbs in the cinderblock holes if you use cinderblocks. I did on my new bed and have them planted with Parsley and Basil (lots of basil - I love Pesto). Rules of thumb on spacing - tomatoes an 18" square (2 feet to 3 feet for larger heirloom varieties like Brandywine), melons and squash 2 feet square - although vines will stretch out further than that but that is just enough room to allow the plant to reach its genetic potential. You are also going to want to plan for access to the garden so you'll need some stepping stones laid out allowing you something to stand on without compacting the soil next to your plants. I would put a 2'x 2' square of aggregate pavers about every 4 feet about 3 feet out from the wall with a few individual stepping stones allowing you a place to step without stepping on your plants. A dark color is better because then they will act as solar heat collectors to help warm your soil. You will also want to plan for watering the garden, and there are several strategies you can follow. 1. Just water with a sprinkler or hose nozzle. Pro's: Simple and inexpensive. The most flexible watering method. Con's: Time consuming and some plants like melons and squash do not like having there leaves wetted and it promotes fungal growths like powdery and downy mildew. 2. Soaker Hose (on the soil surface). Pro's: Takes a lot less time to water as you can just turn it on and forget about it for an hour or two. Gets plants watered at the root line which they prefer. Less flexible than hose irrigation but more flexible than drip irrigation. By using bulk soaker hose and various fittings - "T's" and etc., you can make an almost infinite variety of custom layouts to optimize your watering. Some fertilizers, mostly liquids, can be fed into the hose to do what is called "fertigation" which waters and fertilizes at the same time. For a garden your size you'll need a three or four way screw on gang valve and then simplest is 3 or 4 25' runs straight down the bed. The soaker hose will water about an 18" swath. Con's: It is a royal pain in the *** to get the initial set up in - particularly on the turns - the damn hose has a mind of its own and you need to buy soaker hose stakes or very long landscaper's pins to hold it where you want it. 3. Soaker Hose using feeder pipes. What this is, is you run poly pipe as feed lines and then branch short runs off of the feed line to create a more customized watering system. You can buy tubing and fittings designed specifically for this kind of a layout. In your size and shape bed one line run near the center would probably be adequate, and then branch shorter runs off of it. You use a tool to puncture and install the fittings to run the branches off of. Each branch, as well as the main line, is terminated with a cap. Pro's: Very flexible and allows getting the right amount of water to the right spot. Allows for a more customized layout designed for specific plant needs - such as creating a loop around a plant - good for melons and squash. Good for fall and winter gardening as all you have to do is turn on the water and so it minimizes the number of times you have to hunch over and walk down the bed under your hoops for the cover material. Con's: Initial set up is more time and labor consuming and the fittings add a little cost over just running multiple straight runs. Has to be carefully planned out. 4. Buried Soaker hose. Same as with the other soaker hose layouts except you make a trench, lay the hose in it (and pin it), and then bury it about 2 to 3 inches deep. Pros: More economical on water usage as you lose less to evaporation, and it gives the garden a more elegant appearance. Also allows the easy use of plastic mulches to warm the soil, reduce weeds, and increase the rate of growth. (Red for tomatoes and Strawberries, and Dark Green IRT 76 for melons, squash, cucumbers, and peppers. All held in place with landscaper's wire pins.) Cons: I don't know how many times I've ruined a soaker hose by forgetting where it was buried and then cutting it with a shovel or puncturing it with a fork. @#$%!!!! Also less flexible than surface layouts as it is harder to rearrange each year. And finally: 5. Drip Irrigation - using poly pipe and smaller diameter branch lines utilizing little drippers called "emitters". You can also attach small sprinklers to it for areas than need broader coverage and are not sensitive about getting their leaves wet like melons and squash. Pro's: Allows customization of your watering using a variety of emitters and sprinklers. Allows tailoring the water flow to specific plant needs. Allows fertigation. Con's: Least flexible, and most expensive, as far as making changes you have to plug any holes from emitters moved, and the piping is relatively inflexible. Takes a lot more time, effort, and planning to set up. Requires occasional flushing and cleaning to keep it from clogging. If everything is in a fixed position it's the best as it allows for the perfect water flow for plant needs, but for a vegetable garden that the layout and planting is going to change in every year I think of it as too much effort and expense. Personally I think of it as good for straight runs and watering perennials which are going to be in the same place for years. Great for a berry patch such as with Blueberries, Gooseberries, and Raspberries where the plants will remain in the same spot for many years.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
Once you have the bed marked off and a first rototilling to loosen it up pull some of the dirt in the back to the front so that you can establish a uniform, or nearly so, depth for the planting bed topsoil. By using the front border as a retaining wall you can can then proceed to make the bed more or less level instead of heavily sloped. The sides of the bed will be above the slope at the front and nearly even in the back, but the depth of the topsoil in the bed will be relatively even front to back. The other way to do it would be to terrace it with two three foot or so wide strips - with a short retaining wall cutting through down the center parallel to your house's foundation. Sort of a stair step effect. But since you are building a new bed from scratch I would go for 18" of worked and build up topsoil. There's an old English gardener's rule of thumb - "A penny on the plant, a Pound on the hole". Meaning of course that your soil is the foundation of the garden and building good rich soil will pay dividends in the success of your garden. When I say rotating the tomatoes I mean from year to year - one year in one spot and then rotate to another the next year. While they can seed from tomatoes that drop off and rot (referred to as "volunteers" in gardener's slang) they are an annual crop meaning that they have to be planted anew each spring. Again a good place to check for your area is the University Ag Extension for whichever University is the big Ag School for your state.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
"You can't call a boycott on the candy store and then pick and choose the candy you really want," Pierce said. "You either boycott or you don't." hehehehe...Arizona Commissioner Gary Pierce checkmates the LA City Council amoeba.
Sounds like Pick, Mattock, Shovel, and Fork work. Been there, done that. That 5'X20' bed I mentioned earlier, in addition to all the rock, was hard baked clay. There is no way I could have run a tiller through it so it was all hand work - blisters, and sore muscles. However, you'll have that much more pride when it turns into a lush green garden - not to mention no small amount of relief that it is done. I'm afraid that there is not much in the way of shallow rooted edibles. Tomatoes are relatively shallow rooted and can get by in a shallower bed but you still need the top 12 inches to be good and loosened - although 18 inches is much better - and really needed for root crops like carrots as well as squash and melons which do root deep (oh, you will find that the melons you grow yourself will change your viewpoint on them - the difference between a vine ripened melon and those boulders in the store is night and day - I can recommend some good short season varieties when we get that far). It won't be perfect the first year - it will really take two more seasons of adding compost and minerals and working the soil with your Garden Fork before it really gets into good shape. The very bottom layer, below 12 inches, does not require as much amending but it does need to be loosened enough for easy root penetration. Lettuces, herbs, and green onions will do in a shallower bed, but the bottom line is that if you want the most production from your space you're going to have to bite the bullet and break up the clay and loosen it enough to till it and add compost, sand, and a bit of pea gravel to break it up. For one your plants roots need a certain amount of aeration and tight hard packed clay is not very porous. Probably the easiest, not that working hard clay is ever "easy", is to keep the soil moist but not wet or muddy, break it up with a Pick, Mattock, and that good Garden Fork that I said was an essential. A good fork will pay for itself here - as all you really need to do is force the fork down as far as you can and rock it back and forth until the soil begins breaking up - move it about 6 inches to a foot and repeat - over, and over, and over (LOL! I've done it). This is also why you want a good fork because a lesser tool will bend or break with the kind of stress needed to break up hard clay. If you have a helper or two they can follow behind and break it up more with a good mattock so that it is in smaller chunks that will let the tiller work easier. You can do this the day after a good rain or give it a good hosing the day before. The key is moist not wet which turns it into muck nor so dry that it is like f**king cement. Once you have it loosed enough you should be able to get the tiller to run through to break it up some more. With the initial break up done you'll need a pick-up load (or possibly 2) of what is called "Mason's Sand" - which is a coarser grade of sand than child's play sand (If you can't get it then any good sand - from a fresh water source will do - even better if you know a place to "load up" from for free) - which should be available through a masonry supply or your landscape supply yard - buy in bulk if at all possible rather than bagged to save $$$$. If you can get the real deal you can omit or lessen the amount of pea gravel in the subsoil layer. Although were I building it myself I would still add about 2 good wheelbarrow's full - given the size of your bed. Once you can till that in it will start breaking up the clay and making the soil more porous so that water, nutrients, and air can penetrate. Since you are dealing with heavy clay, from the sounds of it, you will want to add some organic material into this lowest layer - a good cheap compost - another pick-up load. If you get the wife and kids involved this can all be done in a weekend - of hard work. That should be sufficient to prepare the subsoil layer (below 12"). Once it is permeable water, nutrients, and natural travel of particulates will finish the job over time (one of the Spring chores in future years is to loosen the bed with your fork - you don't have to turn it over just loosen it up and then rake it smooth - add compost and minerals and rake it in to the topmost 4 to 6 inches - a mini-tiller like a "Mantis™" or equivalent would be useful to speed it and make it easier but is not absolutely necessary). You might want to leave the clay tight in the center where your intermediary wall will go to give it a firm footing. Think of it as two beds closely separated by a short wall in between. It is not necessary to do that but could be handy. Also the mason's sand comes in handy here for creating a level surface for your middle wall. The hardest part of setting up a new garden is the soil prep, but cutting corners there is a false economy as the life of the bed, properly prepared, is indefinite - as long as you want to garden it. As well, done aesthetically, it will add value to your property. That likely will be the single most onerous chore in building the bed. Of course I'm a gardening nut and would regard it as a "fun" project (my forearms are aching just at the thought of it). And the 3 tier twenty inch beds would probably work as that is a wide enough row for most crops - heirloom tomatoes would extend out over the wall but as long as they are well staked it would not be a problem. Of course squash and melons would grow down over the wall, but that could look attractive too. However, you would lose a little growing space. The rule of thumb is "can you reach the back of the bed to weed and harvest". With the three tier the bottom tier would probably be enought lower to be used for tomatoes as most varieties won't get tall enough to seriously shade the top tier and the tier behind them could be used for summer lettuce which needs some shading from summer heat to prevent tip burn and early bolting. Putting the tomatoes in the front also makes for easier tending and harvest. Also if you wanted the top tier could be turned into a Strawberry bed - which requires a lot of compost but 12" depth is fine for them as they are shallow rooted. A good everbearing/day neutral variety would, kept well watered, provide you with Strawberries from June till frost. If the entire row was planted with Alpine Strawberries 25' is enough row to get enough production to make it worth growing them.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
If its real hard it is what is known as clay soil. A way to check is to wet it. Dig out a handful and if it sticks together in a large clump it's clay. However, from what you were describing it very likely has a high clay content. Which is not bad per se as it is generally rich in minerals, but it does not drain well, water runs off and does not penetrate, and it is hard for roots to penetrate. Root cops will not penetrate e.g., Carrots, Beets, Turnips, etc., .... On Day Neutral, sometimes called everbearing, Strawberries they will produce a large flush of berries early in the year and then continue to produce berries at a slower rate throughout the summer. Seascape is a good cultivar and is the one I chose.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
My pleasure - I'm a Gardening Evangelist. A.K.A. the Oyster Plant? Nah, never heard of it. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."
I haven't grown it for probably 12-13 years, but the reason it is called "The Oyster Plant" is that it makes a fairly convincing substitute for real Oysters in Oyster Stew. I imagine it would be good other ways but that is the only way I've used it.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#2. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#3. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#4. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#5. To: Eric Stratton (#2)
Boy, things really appear as if the lid can blow off of this pot-o-shit any day now.
#6. To: PSUSA (#4)
#7. To: SonOfLiberty (#5)
#8. To: Eric Stratton (#7)
#9. To: SonOfLiberty (#8)
#10. To: Eric Stratton (#9)
(Edited)
I need to find out what kinds of crops grow best and quickest for our climate, which is probably a lot like yours except with a slightly longer growing season.
I wish I had that country option. Our space for growing much is limited.
#11. To: SonOfLiberty (#10)
#12. To: SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton, all (#8)
Our garden this year is huge. Even have blueberry bushes planted, early summer yielders and mid-late summer yielders. If push comes to shove, we have 51,500 heirloom non-hybrid seeds for a variety of foods that grow in this region (veges, melons, herbs, etc) that can be planted across the entire back yard that could sustain us for years if need be (though honestly we'll probably retreat to 40 acres out in the country that is being bequeathed to us soon).
#13. To: Eric Stratton (#11)
Looks like we're in zone 6 actually, 6b. You have a good site for appropriateness there?
#14. To: Original_Intent (#12)
#15. To: SonOfLiberty (#13)
#16. To: Original_Intent (#12)
I am trying to get as much as I can out of my limited space. I added 5 blueberries, 3 Raspberries, 2 Gooseberries, 2 Currants, and about 50 Strawberry Plants this year.
One way to save money on plants is to go wholesale by putting together a group order, a buying club, and order enough to get the wholesale price.
#17. To: Eric Stratton (#11)
No doubt.
#18. To: Eric Stratton (#14)
How do you keep deer and squirrels away?
#19. To: Original_Intent, Eric Stratton (#17)
(Edited)
#20. To: Original_Intent (#17)
#21. To: SonOfLiberty (#16)
or "something" happens, then we dig into the 51,500 heirloom seeds and plant costs go away forever
#22. To: SonOfLiberty (#19)
#23. To: Eric Stratton (#20)
(Edited)
#24. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#25. To: SonOfLiberty (#5)
This isn't something to desire, lots of innocent people, truly innocent like kids and sick folks, are going to be in a world of pain if "something" comes to pass. The only silver lining, for our family anyway, is that we're relatively young (early 40's), mobile, fit and self sufficient.
#26. To: Eric Stratton (#20)
#27. To: Eric Stratton (#22)
#28. To: SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton (#23)
#29. To: Original_Intent (#28)
#30. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
#31. To: SonOfLiberty (#27)
You'll also want to only use heirloom/non-hybrid seeds, otherwise you're good for one year and after that you may end up with significantly less to absolutely nothing.
#32. To: SonOfLiberty (#23)
#33. To: Jethro Tull (#24)
#34. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
#35. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
#36. To: SonOfLiberty (#29)
#37. To: Eric Stratton (#35)
#38. To: Eric Stratton, SonOfLiberty (#32)
Spinach, peas, carrots, broccoli are quick, so is lettuce (but it seems pretty low nutritionally). Tomatoes aren't quite as "quick" but they yield a ton of product per plant per season. Things like corn take planning and land enough for at least 4+ decent rows, so that's out. Potatoes are not terribly fast, they're a three month-ish wait, but their yield can be quite large. They do take up space though. Wheat and barley take up space, but a good harvest of wheat or barley can last you a year or longer and requires little storage specialization (debug it, seal it, ta da).
#39. To: Eric Stratton (#32)
With tomatoes you can even get those things that they advertise to hang them to grow them, that's probably a really good way of doing those and they can probably hang indoors during the winter I'm guessing.
Sounds like peas and carrots are a good way to go. Do you have to can them to preserve them?
#40. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
#41. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
Obama is the miscegenated bastard of a white communist whore. True story.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#42. To: Original_Intent (#26)
#43. To: SonOfLiberty (#27)
#44. To: Original_Intent (#40)
#45. To: Eric Stratton (#42)
#46. To: Original_Intent (#28)
#47. To: abraxas (#30)
#48. To: Eric Stratton, Original_Intent (#20)
Also, which crops yield the most food, as I won't be looking primarily for preference, really simply survival?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#49. To: Eric Stratton (#46)
#50. To: Eric Stratton (#47)
(Edited)
Actually, amid all the discussion of growing crops, I was thinking that we should have some summertime tunes, ... how 'bout a little Diesel!
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#37)
#52. To: Original_Intent (#40)
#53. To: abraxas (#50)
#54. To: wudidiz (#48)
#55. To: abraxas (#50)
#56. To: Jethro Tull (#53)
#57. To: Eric Stratton (#54)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#58. To: wudidiz (#57)
#59. To: Eric Stratton (#52)
Take a big big honor guard with you. Home made claymores are good for that.
#60. To: Eric Stratton (#58)
Oh yeah, screw my wife and kids. It's every man for himself when TSHTF!
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#61. To: Original_Intent (#59)
#62. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
I HATE THIS GOVERNMENT.
#63. To: Phant2000 (#62)
(Edited)
#64. To: Original_Intent (#63)
... but not with someone old enough to be, err, uh, a big sister?
#65. To: Jethro Tull (#44)
Got a much better plan. Have for years now. And trust me, If I get hungry enough, I'm going "shopping" at my neighbors victory garden. He best but lots of toothpicks to keep his eyes open :P
#66. To: Eric Stratton (#54)
#67. To: SonOfLiberty (#66)
#68. To: Eric Stratton (#67)
Thanks! I'll have to look into them. Still, they take electricity to operate, no?
I'm thinking just a good stock of dried rice and beans for immediate action.
#69. To: SonOfLiberty (#68)
#70. To: Eric Stratton (#69)
Would there be critter eggs in store-bought rice bags?
#71. To: randge (#70)
#72. To: Eric Stratton (#69)
Would there be critter eggs in store-bought rice bags?
I've got some of those foodsealing bags, are those good for this?
Where does one by 5-6 gal. mylar bags?
Also, will an iron seal that shut?
#73. To: Eric Stratton (#71)
#74. To: Eric Stratton (#71)
But the dry ice method will prevent that, right?
#75. To: SonOfLiberty (#72)
#76. To: randge, SonOfLiberty (#74)
#77. To: Eric Stratton (#76)
(Edited)
#78. To: SonOfLiberty (#77)
#79. To: Eric Stratton (#78)
#80. To: SonOfLiberty (#79)
#81. To: SonOfLiberty (#65)
Be nice man. If somebody was prescient enough to grow a good garden to survive on, they're on our side. Stealing would just be wrong in that case.
#82. To: Eric Stratton (#80)
#83. To: SonOfLiberty (#82)
#84. To: Jethro Tull (#81)
Don't get me wrong, some great info here for those who want to save a buck, but this isn't about survival, IMO. I went thru this heavily when I was convinced the earth was going to end when the clocks struck midnight, 010100. IMO, if people are hungry, and signs of food exist in your home, garden, roof or tub, you will have your hands full, regardless of which side anyone is on. Again, no offense intended, I'm simply saying people eat each other when confronted with true survival.
#85. To: Eric Stratton (#83)
(Edited)
How long would you say a five-gallon pail would last in terms of food supply?
#86. To: SonOfLiberty (#84)
I meant just you. Don't want those on "our" side robbing me blind
#87. To: SonOfLiberty (#85)
#88. To: Original_Intent (#31)
#89. To: SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton (#19)
#90. To: scooter (#89)
#91. To: Original_Intent (#49)
#92. To: Samuel Gray (#91)
#93. To: Original_Intent, Samuel Gray (#92)
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#94. To: scooter, SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton (#89)
I need at least two more of the type that grows 4-6 feet and produces twice a year.
#95. To: Original_Intent, Samuel Gray (#92)
#96. To: farmfriend (#93)
just saying...
#97. To: Original_Intent (#96)
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#98. To: Dakmar (#95)
#99. To: scooter, SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton (#89)
My strawberries have done very well. 6 plants have become 18 and they are producing good fruit now. I've discovered you don't need many strawberry plants to wind up with a lot.
#100. To: All (#99)
#101. To: Original_Intent, SonOfLibery, Eric Stratton (#99)
#102. To: scooter (#101)
#103. To: SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton, Scooter, all (#19)
Yes to apples, those will thrive there. Grapes too I believe, and pears and peaches. Keep in mind that most fruiting trees need at least two trees for cross pollination, otherwise you won't get any fruit.
#104. To: Eric Stratton, scooter, SonOfLiberty, all (#102)
Man, I wish I had time for blueberry/strawberry plants.
#105. To: scooter, SonOfLibery, Eric Stratton (#101)
Yep. Will do. That's how my original six became 18 and truth be told, it was/is more than that. I have let a small patch have it and do whatever it wants. I decided I wanted a managed section and another for the critters. Was not aware of their relatively short life span- thank you. I'm in Asheville, zones 6a and 7a.
#106. To: randge, Eric Stratton (#70)
Would there be critter eggs in store-bought rice bags?
#107. To: Original_Intent (#104)
#108. To: Original_Intent (#105)
#109. To: Original_Intent (#106)
#110. To: Eric Stratton (#107)
What kind of yields does one get on so few plants?
#111. To: Eric Stratton (#108)
What did you mean before by "rooting runners?"
#112. To: Eric Stratton (#109)
That reminds me of a sealed box of Quaker Oats that I opened up and then immediately trashed. It was disgusting the damn bugs had webs and probably 2 generations of the bastards in there.
#113. To: Original_Intent (#112)
#114. To: Eric Stratton (#113)
#115. To: Original_Intent (#114)
#116. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz (#114)
#117. To: Eric Stratton, gardeners, 4 (#116)
#118. To: Eric Stratton, wudidiz, CadetD, all (#116)
#119. To: Original_Intent (#118)
Plant a few Marigolds, which repel aphids, to give it a homey country cottage look (I like the White Marigolds).
#120. To: Lod (#119)
#121. To: Lod (#117)
#122. To: Original_Intent (#118)
#123. To: Eric Stratton (#122)
(Edited)
How frequently do marigolds bloom?
#124. To: Lod (#123)
#125. To: Original_Intent (#118)
#126. To: Eric Stratton (#125)
#127. To: Original_Intent (#126)
#128. To: Eric Stratton (#127)
(Edited)
#129. To: Original_Intent (#128)
#130. To: Eric Stratton (#129)
Keep in mind that this is a gradient slope away from the house, so near the house it won't be 20", it might be a few inches. Recommendations?
#131. To: Original_Intent (#130)
#132. To: Mind_Virus (#0)
But if tough-talking Los Angeles officials really decide to go through with this boycott fully, then they will have to go without this electricity.
#133. To: Eric Stratton (#131)
The ground is tremendously hard however and I'm not sure tillable. I'll poke around though to find out.
#134. To: Original_Intent (#133)
#135. To: Eric Stratton (#134)
Not sure how much clay is there if at all.
#136. To: Original_Intent (#135)
#137. To: Eric Stratton (#136)
(Edited)
Thanks!
Ever heard of salsify?
#138. To: Original_Intent (#137)
#139. To: Eric Stratton (#138)
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