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Title: The Civil War Begins - Arizona threatens to cut off power to Los Angeles over immigration law boycott
Source: www.abc15.com
URL Source: http://www.abc15.com/content/financ ... on/RBINaWwt1kOaUTJxnHs5Xg.cspx
Published: May 19, 2010
Author: by: Dave Biscobing
Post Date: 2010-05-19 08:46:23 by Mind_Virus
Keywords: None
Views: 2163
Comments: 139

Arizona energy official calls L.A.'s bluff on total boycott

Reported by: Dave Biscobing Email: dbiscobing@abc15.com Last Update: 5/18 11:16 pm

PHOENIX -- Last week, Los Angeles officially boycotted Arizona to send a message about the state's new immigration law.

Now, the Arizona Corporation Commission is sending back a message of their own.

On Tuesday, Commissioner Gary Pierce wrote a letter to the Los Angeles Mayor and City Council. He said the intention was to "call them out," and see if they are committed to truly cut off all Arizona resources.

"I don't think they thought this through," Pierce said. "There are consequences that involve energy."

Across Arizona, Los Angeles gets 25 percent of its power from three plants, including the Palo Verde Nuclear Station.

The state can't literally pull the plug as the city owns the power.

But if tough-talking Los Angeles officials really decide to go through with this boycott fully, then they will have to go without this electricity.

"You can't call a boycott on the candy store and then pick and choose the candy you really want," Pierce said. "You either boycott or you don't."

However, Los Angeles councilmembers have been perhaps the most outspoken about Senate Bill 1070.

"We want them to be the last state to do this," Councilmember Janice Hahn said after the city first threatened boycotts. "We think we have a lot of leverage over that state."

"This is not a paper resolution. It is real," added Councilmember Ed Reyes after the boycott was approved.

When the Los Angeles City Council made their vote, they were given a report that contained information about the city's contracts with Arizona.

It did not include agreements about water and power.

"I think this boycott is going to backfire," Pierce said. "And they are just going to want it to go away."

After the letter was sent, the Arizona Corporation Commission said by the end of the day, they received dozens of calls and more than 100 emails in support from officials of 18 different states.

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#100. To: All (#99)

HUNNERT!!!!!!!

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-20 19:55:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#101. To: Original_Intent, SonOfLibery, Eric Stratton (#99)

Yep. Will do. That's how my original six became 18 and truth be told, it was/is more than that. I have let a small patch have it and do whatever it wants. I decided I wanted a managed section and another for the critters. Was not aware of their relatively short life span- thank you. I'm in Asheville, zones 6a and 7a.

"What began in Russia will end in America."- 1930, Elder Ignatius of Harbin, Manchuria.

scooter posted on 2010-05-21 0:18:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#102. To: scooter (#101)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 10:24:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#103. To: SonOfLiberty, Eric Stratton, Scooter, all (#19)

Yes to apples, those will thrive there. Grapes too I believe, and pears and peaches. Keep in mind that most fruiting trees need at least two trees for cross pollination, otherwise you won't get any fruit.
If you're so inclined and can find land where you can set aside 1/4 acre or so, crops like wheat or barley would be advisable too, unless you dislike bread, beer, pastries and cake. :)

One Apple I know of, Queen Cox, is self fertile. I know Raintree Nursery sells them both at the store and on line.

I wish I had room for grains. Amaranth is another good one - I like the flavor and it is the only grain that contains all essential amino acids.

By using trees on the extra-dwarfing Emla 27 Rootstock apple trees can be kept to a very manageable 6 feet high with a 6 to 8 foot spacing thus making it possible to have a small orchard in a small space. There are also dwarf cherries that are self fertile. Pears require a little more room, as there is no mini-dwarf rootstock, and on the available dwarfing rootstock will reach 12 to 14 feet. Still manageable though. The mini-dwarf apple trees can be grown in a 65 gallon SmartPot. The SmartPots were originally developed for tree growers but are also very useful for container gardening - particularly in containing plants that will expand and get unruly like Raspberries and Blackberries. I have my Raspberries in 25 gallon SmartPots.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 10:54:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#104. To: Eric Stratton, scooter, SonOfLiberty, all (#102)

Man, I wish I had time for blueberry/strawberry plants.

Blueberries grown in SmartPots are very low maintenance. Mostly watering, fertilizing, and a little, and I do mean little, weeding. 5 bushes in containers, once set up, should take no more than ten minutes a day if that. For hardy half high bushes I would reccomend a 15 or 20 gallon, and for larger varieties a 20 or 25 gallon. I have 2 half high bushes in 15 gallon pots, and 2 Little Giants, and a Rubel in 20's. If I had to all of them could probably fit in a 5'x7' plot. The main things to know about blueberries is that they require a very acid soil PH 4.5 to 5.0 and that you need at least 2 varieties for cross pollination and maximum fruit production. If I was limited to two - in your climate zone I would reccomend 1 Rubel and 1 Little Giant. Both produce a nice "wild-like" berrie and at full growth produce about 15 pounds per plant per year. Acidifying the soil is easy to accomplish by adding about a cup of horticultural sulfur to the soil mix, distributed throughout as you fill them, for the pots. Since the sulfur takes about a year to fully lower the PH you definitely need a high acid fertilizer the first year. I used "Happy Frog" for acid loving plants and they are thriving. I also supplement with Algoflash All Purpose and a little liquid calcium. Blueberries like extra nitrogen when fruiting so a high nitrogen fertilizer helps to maximize fruit production.

Raspberries also like a slightly acid soil but more around PH 5.5 to 6.0. Same on the nitrogen.

Strawberries prefer a more neutral soil but also want extra nitrogen for best fruiting.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 11:07:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#105. To: scooter, SonOfLibery, Eric Stratton (#101)

Yep. Will do. That's how my original six became 18 and truth be told, it was/is more than that. I have let a small patch have it and do whatever it wants. I decided I wanted a managed section and another for the critters. Was not aware of their relatively short life span- thank you. I'm in Asheville, zones 6a and 7a.

Oh, Strawberries will continue to produce beyond that, but it is just that they peak out and then get "tired" producing progressively fewer berries each year.

Raspberries will do the same at about the 12 year mark.

Blueberries will still be producing when your grandchildren have children as they are known to last at least 50 to 60 years.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 11:10:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#106. To: randge, Eric Stratton (#70)

Would there be critter eggs in store-bought rice bags?
All grain contains critter eggs, Eric.
Even milling flour doesn't destroy them. Keep a bag of flour long enough and you will see teeny mealy bug worms spawning in it, even if you've kept it sealed.

That reminds me of a sealed box of Quaker Oats that I opened up and then immediately trashed. It was disgusting the damn bugs had webs and probably 2 generations of the bastards in there.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 11:16:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#107. To: Original_Intent (#104)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 12:15:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#108. To: Original_Intent (#105)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 12:16:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#109. To: Original_Intent (#106)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 12:17:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#110. To: Eric Stratton (#107)

What kind of yields does one get on so few plants?

My 5 Blueberries, once they reach maturity, should produce somewhere between 50 and 65 pounds of blueberries each year.

The two blueberry plants I suggest, Rubel and Little Giant, would produce 25 to 30 pounds at maturity (around 15 pounds per plant).

1 Queen Cox will, on ultra dwarfing rootstock, produce about 1/2 box of apples per year.

3 Raspberries in containers about ten pounds per container depending upon variety.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 12:23:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#111. To: Eric Stratton (#108)

What did you mean before by "rooting runners?"

Strawberries, most varieties, send out tendrils called runners - they are in that fashion like a spreading ground cover. On the tendrils, or runners, they produce nodes, kind of like "Hens and Chicks", that are basically little strawberry plants and you'll notice them as they do form leaves and look like little button strawberry plants. It is one of the reproduction strategies for strawberries - which also produce seeds. So, the little nodes will produce roots, and when well rooted you can cut the tendril and you have a natural clone of the parent. You can speed that up by making sure they are upright and mounding a little dirt around their base.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 12:29:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#112. To: Eric Stratton (#109)

That reminds me of a sealed box of Quaker Oats that I opened up and then immediately trashed. It was disgusting the damn bugs had webs and probably 2 generations of the bastards in there.
Reminds me of the time I found mouse turds all over our kitchen counters. Finally trapped the little bastard. Fortunately it was just one.

One of the advantages of having cats that are good "mousers" is that any mice that are unfortunate enough to make it inside tend to have short lifespans. ;-)

I remember one that got in and had a particular covered path of travel, but had to scamper across a hallway to get from the closet to the kitchen. My cat Stormy basically camped out for 3 days waiting for her chance, but she got her mouse. :-)

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 12:32:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#113. To: Original_Intent (#112)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 12:43:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#114. To: Eric Stratton (#113)

The advantage of cats is that they'll catch them "just for fun". Stormy, in particular, loved catching mice, but then she would just play with them till they "broke". Dusty however, ate them with relish (or without).

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-21 12:53:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#115. To: Original_Intent (#114)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-21 13:16:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#116. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz (#114)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-31 13:55:14 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#117. To: Eric Stratton, gardeners, 4 (#116)

Full sun is best.

An easy way to prep for a garden, or any other new plantings, is to cover the spot with two to three inches of newspaper, held down with brick or something so that the paper doesn't blow away.

In a few months, the pill-bugs, earthworms, etc. will have the plot ready to go.

I put soaker hose in the bottom of the furrows, covered with mulch from lawn clippings. The plantings seemed to love it and we had enough produce to supply the cul-de-sac.

Lod posted on 2010-05-31 14:12:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#118. To: Eric Stratton, wudidiz, CadetD, all (#116)

Not good for lettuce or other cool weather crops such as Snow Peas (once temperatures move stably into the 70's and above) - great for Tomatoes, Melons, Squash, Peas, Carrots, etc., .... Also good for Basil, Dill, Pickles, and most other annual herbs. Alpine Strawberries would do well, but they take a lot of room for a little production - however they are a wonderful gourmet treat. A perennial berry such as a black Raspberry (variety Jewell) would be a productive and tasty addition. I would put it on one end or the other so you could use hoops over the rest to extend the growing season. Lettuce would probably do good in it through November in your Climate Zone. Also Green Onions and leeks could likely be left standing most of the year.

The cheapest way to build the border, if you don't already have lumber on hand, would be with cinder blocks (stacked 2 high) filled with a good rich mixture of compost, glacial rock dust (for its mineral content), and enough topsoil to hold it together. The holes in the cinderblocks can then be filled with soil and used as mini-planters for individual small herbs such as Basil and Parsley. Adding Coir fiber, which is cheap, would aid in moisture retention. More expensive, but more elegant, would be to use loose set stacked "wall rock" from a landscape supply yard. There are other rock options but they get more expensive. You can also buy manmade blocks that have a sandstone finish and those are very attractive too. Plant a few Marigolds, which repel aphids, to give it a homey country cottage look (I like the White Marigolds).

My suggestion would be to carefully grid it out and use something resembling The Square Foot Planting System.

With Poly Pipe and greenhouse plastic or Row Cover material it should make a good 3 season mini-farm capable of producing just about all the veggies you need for 2 people.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-31 14:14:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#119. To: Original_Intent (#118)

Plant a few Marigolds, which repel aphids, to give it a homey country cottage look (I like the White Marigolds).

Definitely - I forgot that key garden helper.

Once the Texas' summer heat stopped the tomato production, I'd cut the plants back to six inches, or so, and keep them alive until fall. With their root system ready to go, we had much better fall crops than we did that spring.

Lod posted on 2010-05-31 14:21:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#120. To: Lod (#119)

Interesting strategy on the 'maters, but it makes sense. Although you could try heat tolerant varieties such as "Arkansas Traveler" and "Costuloto Genovese". Depending on the temperatures using a shade cloth for the midday sun would be handy as well.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-05-31 18:36:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#121. To: Lod (#117)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-31 23:31:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#122. To: Original_Intent (#118)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-05-31 23:35:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#123. To: Eric Stratton (#122) (Edited)

How frequently do marigolds bloom?
Also, same question to you, what kind of compost should I fill it with, just the local sand/fill seller's "compost?"

Marigolds will bloom all summer. They're an annual but are easy to collect seed from - just let a few of the flowers wither until the petals look really ratty and then clip them off, peel off the leaves and remaining petals, then dry them ( a sunny window sill is fine, then gently rub the seeds out of the center and then plant next spring.

Compost comes in several varieties. Manures and Vegetable Compost with or without manure added. One caution and a thing you want to double check and ensure is NOT in your compost is sludge from sewage treatment plants. While it is a good rich compost it has undesirables in it like heavy metals, pharmaceuticals, and residue from pesticides. The plants will pick up the heavy metals in particular and turn out beautiful veggies loaded with toxic heavy metals. Usually the bag will list the contents and their sources. If in doubt pick another brand or pay the extra money to buy organic compost.

All vegetable composts are good for root crops, but they also tend to be looser and not hold water as well as composts with manure. So, I use both. When I built a new raised bed this year (about 4.5 x 9) I started with 1/2 yard of garden soil from the landscape supply and then used about 9 cubic feet of Vegetable (actually plant) compost, 1.5 cubic feet of composted chicken manure, 1 cubic foot of worm castings, 9 cubic feet of vegetable/plant compost, 9 cubic feet of mixed plant and manure compost, and about 4.5 cubic feet of steer manure. I also used a couple of 2 cubic foot bags of potting mix with coir fiber, and 25 pounds of mineral mix.

Now building a bed as big as you are building is going to be expensive in the first year as you have to buy large quantities of soil and compost to fill a bed that size. Figuring the bed at 5 by 30 and 8 or 9 inches deep works out to about 14 cubic yards. That is if you go one cinderblock high. So, I got to thinking about how to cut costs without cutting essentials. The first would be to buy your baseline soil in bulk from a landscape supply yard. The one near me (which does you no good since I'm in Oregon) charges 25 dollars per cubic yard for garden soil. So 12 yards for the base is $300 versus triple or quadruple that if you bought it in bags unless you bought it by the pallet from a wholesaler. If you don't have a pick up most of them will deliver but there will be a "truck charge". However, for a job your size I'd pay the truck charge rather than making 12 pick up loads. Likely they also sell bulk compost and so you can buy a yard of compost as well to mix into the top layer, but that goes in after the soil so that is worth doing with a pick-up (1/2 ton or 3/4 ton to haul a full yard). Again check and make sure they don't use sewage sludge. If you have access to good soil elsewhere in your yard you can shave some of that off by wheel barrowing a few loads into the new plot. However, there is no getting around it you are going to need a lot of dirt to fill a bed that large. I went through 4 cubic yards this year filling a bunch of new large containers and in building my new bed.

So, the order the materials go in (after prepping the area by loosening it with a rototiller and raking out the sod and weeds):

Cinder Blocks or rock: (this is optional as you can build a mounded raised bed without a hard barrier wall). You'll want to put the bulk soil and whatnot down first if you are going to use a Rototiller - which I would recommend for a bed your size.

Soil (about 10 to 12 cubic yards) Rake out and level in the bed. If you get this from another part of your yard to save money and it is heavy clay like mine then you'll want to add 5 or 10 bags of sand this first year.

Compost About 1 to 2 cubic yards. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed.

About 1/2 to 1 cubic yards of coir fiber - for moisture retention and loosening any clays in the soil. The cheapest is to again buy bulk if you can - my organic supply store sells it in 3 cubic foot compressed bricks which you add warm water to, to expand out. THIS IS NOT COCOA SHELLS WHICH ARE POISONOUS TO DOGS AND CATS. Coir fiber is made from shredded coconut shells and is not poisonous to pets. Make sure you know what you are getting.

Chicken manure about 5 1.5 cubic foot sacks. Chicken Manure is a good natural fertilizer, although I don't rely on it alone. Most Chicken Manures are not fully composted - exceptions are Stutzman Farms and Whitney Farms which are my preferred brands here. You can tell the difference - if not fully composted it is going to stink like chicken shit for about 2 weeks. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed.

Steer Manure (Optional but it is cheap and works well with tomatoes and strawberries) about 20 cubic feet. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed.

A 50 pound bag of Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust (You might have to call around to find this - best bet is an organic farm supply store). This is to boost the mineral content of your soil and it contains many necessary and needed trace elements while still being relatively cheap. Rake out evenly over the top of the bed. (You'll add one of these every year to remineralize your soil from last years growing. Same is true for the upper layer of compost and chicken manure and optional fertilizer.)

Optional but reccomended - a 25 or 50 pound bag of good Organic Fertilizer - again raked over the top of the bed.

Now comes the hard work - work in all of the things you laid on top of each other into the upper 6 inches of the soil. A Rototiller is handy for this - particularly for a bed this size. In future years you can work it with a rake to not disturb the natural layering of the soil but in the first year you just want to get it set up and everything mixed in with the fewest blisters.

Pour yourself a tall Lemonade.

Drink the Lemonade.

Now enjoy the satisfaction of knowing ou won't have to do this again next year.

Basic Tool List of Essential Tools:

A round Shovel.

A Square Shovel.

A good garden rake - don't scrimp on this as a good rake will last.

A good garden fork - again don't scrimp - buy the best you can afford - Spear and Jackson is the best heirloom fork made, but they're about $60 to $70 these days. Mail Order Source: Lee Valley Tools - see their website. They also sell slightly less expensive but very serviceable forks. A good fork well cared for is a one time purchase.

A good trowel (hand shovel)

A good weeding hoe. I like the "Circle Hoe" for tight beds as you don't kill as many plants or damage their roots.

Optional but handy is what is called a Korean Hand Plow. I have one and it is a great all purpose digger.

Optional: A good potting soil scoop. Makes setting up pots so much easier.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-01 1:44:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#124. To: Lod (#123)

Ping to above for your thoughts and anything I might have missed.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-01 1:45:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#125. To: Original_Intent (#118)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-01 7:58:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#126. To: Eric Stratton (#125)

I was kind of guessing/hoping that the foundation would serve as your "back" wall. I built a similar arrangement, by hand, about 12 or so years ago. Not quite as large mine was about 5 by 20. I had a special problem with it as the ground was a prehistoric stream bed. So, I had to sift out, by hand, about a yard of river rock - which I washed and turned into a garden path under an oak tree. However, when I was done a spot that before had trouble growing weeds became a spectacular veggie garden. I grew some tomatoes back there that got so tall my neighbor called it my "Tomato Forest" - it was a Brandywine (a wonderful old Amish Heirloom) and I forget the other two. The Brandywine got so big it broke my bamboo supports.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-01 13:26:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#127. To: Original_Intent (#126)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-01 14:28:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#128. To: Eric Stratton (#127) (Edited)

Twenty inches is plenty deep enough for your planting bed - actually I figure "rule of thumb" 18 inches. I would still rototill the underbed and maybe add some sand and a little bit of pea gravel to loosen it so that deeper rooted plants like melons and squash can penetrate into it. Don't worry about fertilizing that deep though as nutrients will naturally filter down over time. Most of the action takes place in the upper soil i.e., the topsoil. So, what you will be doing over time is to increase the fertility of the soil from top to bottom. Water and drainage will carry minerals and nutrients down for you.

Other considerations - since it backs to a wall - you want to lay out the garden with tall stuff in back and short stuff in front. So it might go Tomatoes (a side consideration on tomatoes is that their position should be rotated on a 3 year rotation to minimize disease so you might rotate left, right, center, left, right, center, etc., ...), pole beans, peas, and cucumbers going up supports in the back, then medium stuff like peppers, bush beans, melons, squash, cucumbers, broccoli, and cauliflower (also taller herbs like dill), then lettuce or other greens like spinach, chard, purslane, endive, etc., and then root crops in the very front area like carrots, beets, turnips, and rutabagas etc., and herbs in the cinderblock holes if you use cinderblocks. I did on my new bed and have them planted with Parsley and Basil (lots of basil - I love Pesto).

Rules of thumb on spacing - tomatoes an 18" square (2 feet to 3 feet for larger heirloom varieties like Brandywine), melons and squash 2 feet square - although vines will stretch out further than that but that is just enough room to allow the plant to reach its genetic potential.

You are also going to want to plan for access to the garden so you'll need some stepping stones laid out allowing you something to stand on without compacting the soil next to your plants. I would put a 2'x 2' square of aggregate pavers about every 4 feet about 3 feet out from the wall with a few individual stepping stones allowing you a place to step without stepping on your plants. A dark color is better because then they will act as solar heat collectors to help warm your soil.

You will also want to plan for watering the garden, and there are several strategies you can follow.

1. Just water with a sprinkler or hose nozzle.

Pro's: Simple and inexpensive. The most flexible watering method.

Con's: Time consuming and some plants like melons and squash do not like having there leaves wetted and it promotes fungal growths like powdery and downy mildew.

2. Soaker Hose (on the soil surface).

Pro's: Takes a lot less time to water as you can just turn it on and forget about it for an hour or two. Gets plants watered at the root line which they prefer. Less flexible than hose irrigation but more flexible than drip irrigation. By using bulk soaker hose and various fittings - "T's" and etc., you can make an almost infinite variety of custom layouts to optimize your watering. Some fertilizers, mostly liquids, can be fed into the hose to do what is called "fertigation" which waters and fertilizes at the same time. For a garden your size you'll need a three or four way screw on gang valve and then simplest is 3 or 4 25' runs straight down the bed. The soaker hose will water about an 18" swath.

Con's: It is a royal pain in the *** to get the initial set up in - particularly on the turns - the damn hose has a mind of its own and you need to buy soaker hose stakes or very long landscaper's pins to hold it where you want it.

3. Soaker Hose using feeder pipes. What this is, is you run poly pipe as feed lines and then branch short runs off of the feed line to create a more customized watering system. You can buy tubing and fittings designed specifically for this kind of a layout. In your size and shape bed one line run near the center would probably be adequate, and then branch shorter runs off of it. You use a tool to puncture and install the fittings to run the branches off of. Each branch, as well as the main line, is terminated with a cap.

Pro's: Very flexible and allows getting the right amount of water to the right spot. Allows for a more customized layout designed for specific plant needs - such as creating a loop around a plant - good for melons and squash. Good for fall and winter gardening as all you have to do is turn on the water and so it minimizes the number of times you have to hunch over and walk down the bed under your hoops for the cover material.

Con's: Initial set up is more time and labor consuming and the fittings add a little cost over just running multiple straight runs. Has to be carefully planned out.

4. Buried Soaker hose. Same as with the other soaker hose layouts except you make a trench, lay the hose in it (and pin it), and then bury it about 2 to 3 inches deep.

Pros: More economical on water usage as you lose less to evaporation, and it gives the garden a more elegant appearance. Also allows the easy use of plastic mulches to warm the soil, reduce weeds, and increase the rate of growth. (Red for tomatoes and Strawberries, and Dark Green IRT 76 for melons, squash, cucumbers, and peppers. All held in place with landscaper's wire pins.)

Cons: I don't know how many times I've ruined a soaker hose by forgetting where it was buried and then cutting it with a shovel or puncturing it with a fork. @#$%!!!! Also less flexible than surface layouts as it is harder to rearrange each year.

And finally:

5. Drip Irrigation - using poly pipe and smaller diameter branch lines utilizing little drippers called "emitters". You can also attach small sprinklers to it for areas than need broader coverage and are not sensitive about getting their leaves wet like melons and squash.

Pro's: Allows customization of your watering using a variety of emitters and sprinklers. Allows tailoring the water flow to specific plant needs. Allows fertigation.

Con's: Least flexible, and most expensive, as far as making changes you have to plug any holes from emitters moved, and the piping is relatively inflexible. Takes a lot more time, effort, and planning to set up. Requires occasional flushing and cleaning to keep it from clogging. If everything is in a fixed position it's the best as it allows for the perfect water flow for plant needs, but for a vegetable garden that the layout and planting is going to change in every year I think of it as too much effort and expense. Personally I think of it as good for straight runs and watering perennials which are going to be in the same place for years. Great for a berry patch such as with Blueberries, Gooseberries, and Raspberries where the plants will remain in the same spot for many years.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-01 16:18:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#129. To: Original_Intent (#128)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-01 20:50:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#130. To: Eric Stratton (#129)

Keep in mind that this is a gradient slope away from the house, so near the house it won't be 20", it might be a few inches. Recommendations?

Once you have the bed marked off and a first rototilling to loosen it up pull some of the dirt in the back to the front so that you can establish a uniform, or nearly so, depth for the planting bed topsoil. By using the front border as a retaining wall you can can then proceed to make the bed more or less level instead of heavily sloped. The sides of the bed will be above the slope at the front and nearly even in the back, but the depth of the topsoil in the bed will be relatively even front to back. The other way to do it would be to terrace it with two three foot or so wide strips - with a short retaining wall cutting through down the center parallel to your house's foundation. Sort of a stair step effect. But since you are building a new bed from scratch I would go for 18" of worked and build up topsoil. There's an old English gardener's rule of thumb - "A penny on the plant, a Pound on the hole". Meaning of course that your soil is the foundation of the garden and building good rich soil will pay dividends in the success of your garden.

When I say rotating the tomatoes I mean from year to year - one year in one spot and then rotate to another the next year. While they can seed from tomatoes that drop off and rot (referred to as "volunteers" in gardener's slang) they are an annual crop meaning that they have to be planted anew each spring. Again a good place to check for your area is the University Ag Extension for whichever University is the big Ag School for your state.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-02 1:52:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#131. To: Original_Intent (#130)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-02 11:33:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#132. To: Mind_Virus (#0)

But if tough-talking Los Angeles officials really decide to go through with this boycott fully, then they will have to go without this electricity.
"You can't call a boycott on the candy store and then pick and choose the candy you really want," Pierce said. "You either boycott or you don't."

hehehehe...Arizona Commissioner Gary Pierce checkmates the LA City Council amoeba.

scrapper2 posted on 2010-06-02 12:16:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#133. To: Eric Stratton (#131)

The ground is tremendously hard however and I'm not sure tillable. I'll poke around though to find out.

Sounds like Pick, Mattock, Shovel, and Fork work. Been there, done that. That 5'X20' bed I mentioned earlier, in addition to all the rock, was hard baked clay. There is no way I could have run a tiller through it so it was all hand work - blisters, and sore muscles. However, you'll have that much more pride when it turns into a lush green garden - not to mention no small amount of relief that it is done.

I'm afraid that there is not much in the way of shallow rooted edibles. Tomatoes are relatively shallow rooted and can get by in a shallower bed but you still need the top 12 inches to be good and loosened - although 18 inches is much better - and really needed for root crops like carrots as well as squash and melons which do root deep (oh, you will find that the melons you grow yourself will change your viewpoint on them - the difference between a vine ripened melon and those boulders in the store is night and day - I can recommend some good short season varieties when we get that far). It won't be perfect the first year - it will really take two more seasons of adding compost and minerals and working the soil with your Garden Fork before it really gets into good shape. The very bottom layer, below 12 inches, does not require as much amending but it does need to be loosened enough for easy root penetration. Lettuces, herbs, and green onions will do in a shallower bed, but the bottom line is that if you want the most production from your space you're going to have to bite the bullet and break up the clay and loosen it enough to till it and add compost, sand, and a bit of pea gravel to break it up. For one your plants roots need a certain amount of aeration and tight hard packed clay is not very porous.

Probably the easiest, not that working hard clay is ever "easy", is to keep the soil moist but not wet or muddy, break it up with a Pick, Mattock, and that good Garden Fork that I said was an essential. A good fork will pay for itself here - as all you really need to do is force the fork down as far as you can and rock it back and forth until the soil begins breaking up - move it about 6 inches to a foot and repeat - over, and over, and over (LOL! I've done it). This is also why you want a good fork because a lesser tool will bend or break with the kind of stress needed to break up hard clay. If you have a helper or two they can follow behind and break it up more with a good mattock so that it is in smaller chunks that will let the tiller work easier. You can do this the day after a good rain or give it a good hosing the day before. The key is moist not wet which turns it into muck nor so dry that it is like f**king cement. Once you have it loosed enough you should be able to get the tiller to run through to break it up some more. With the initial break up done you'll need a pick-up load (or possibly 2) of what is called "Mason's Sand" - which is a coarser grade of sand than child's play sand (If you can't get it then any good sand - from a fresh water source will do - even better if you know a place to "load up" from for free) - which should be available through a masonry supply or your landscape supply yard - buy in bulk if at all possible rather than bagged to save $$$$. If you can get the real deal you can omit or lessen the amount of pea gravel in the subsoil layer. Although were I building it myself I would still add about 2 good wheelbarrow's full - given the size of your bed. Once you can till that in it will start breaking up the clay and making the soil more porous so that water, nutrients, and air can penetrate. Since you are dealing with heavy clay, from the sounds of it, you will want to add some organic material into this lowest layer - a good cheap compost - another pick-up load. If you get the wife and kids involved this can all be done in a weekend - of hard work. That should be sufficient to prepare the subsoil layer (below 12"). Once it is permeable water, nutrients, and natural travel of particulates will finish the job over time (one of the Spring chores in future years is to loosen the bed with your fork - you don't have to turn it over just loosen it up and then rake it smooth - add compost and minerals and rake it in to the topmost 4 to 6 inches - a mini-tiller like a "Mantis™" or equivalent would be useful to speed it and make it easier but is not absolutely necessary). You might want to leave the clay tight in the center where your intermediary wall will go to give it a firm footing. Think of it as two beds closely separated by a short wall in between. It is not necessary to do that but could be handy. Also the mason's sand comes in handy here for creating a level surface for your middle wall.

The hardest part of setting up a new garden is the soil prep, but cutting corners there is a false economy as the life of the bed, properly prepared, is indefinite - as long as you want to garden it. As well, done aesthetically, it will add value to your property. That likely will be the single most onerous chore in building the bed. Of course I'm a gardening nut and would regard it as a "fun" project (my forearms are aching just at the thought of it).

And the 3 tier twenty inch beds would probably work as that is a wide enough row for most crops - heirloom tomatoes would extend out over the wall but as long as they are well staked it would not be a problem. Of course squash and melons would grow down over the wall, but that could look attractive too. However, you would lose a little growing space. The rule of thumb is "can you reach the back of the bed to weed and harvest". With the three tier the bottom tier would probably be enought lower to be used for tomatoes as most varieties won't get tall enough to seriously shade the top tier and the tier behind them could be used for summer lettuce which needs some shading from summer heat to prevent tip burn and early bolting. Putting the tomatoes in the front also makes for easier tending and harvest. Also if you wanted the top tier could be turned into a Strawberry bed - which requires a lot of compost but 12" depth is fine for them as they are shallow rooted. A good everbearing/day neutral variety would, kept well watered, provide you with Strawberries from June till frost. If the entire row was planted with Alpine Strawberries 25' is enough row to get enough production to make it worth growing them.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-02 15:06:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#134. To: Original_Intent (#133)

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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-02 23:38:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#135. To: Eric Stratton (#134)

Not sure how much clay is there if at all.

If its real hard it is what is known as clay soil. A way to check is to wet it. Dig out a handful and if it sticks together in a large clump it's clay. However, from what you were describing it very likely has a high clay content. Which is not bad per se as it is generally rich in minerals, but it does not drain well, water runs off and does not penetrate, and it is hard for roots to penetrate. Root cops will not penetrate e.g., Carrots, Beets, Turnips, etc., ....

On Day Neutral, sometimes called everbearing, Strawberries they will produce a large flush of berries early in the year and then continue to produce berries at a slower rate throughout the summer. Seascape is a good cultivar and is the one I chose.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-02 23:57:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#136. To: Original_Intent (#135)

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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-03 0:21:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#137. To: Eric Stratton (#136) (Edited)

Thanks!

My pleasure - I'm a Gardening Evangelist.

Ever heard of salsify?

A.K.A. the Oyster Plant? Nah, never heard of it. LOL!

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-03 0:31:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#138. To: Original_Intent (#137)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton posted on 2010-06-03 7:55:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#139. To: Eric Stratton (#138)

I haven't grown it for probably 12-13 years, but the reason it is called "The Oyster Plant" is that it makes a fairly convincing substitute for real Oysters in Oyster Stew. I imagine it would be good other ways but that is the only way I've used it.

Original_Intent posted on 2010-06-03 12:02:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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