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Dead Constitution
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Title: Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Source: townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/Mary ... r_issue_than_rights_of_a_child
Published: May 26, 2010
Author: Marybeth Hicks
Post Date: 2010-05-26 09:06:24 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1168
Comments: 132

Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Marybeth Hicks
Wednesday, May 26, 2010

If you’re a parent, you’re probably too busy doing the day-to-day work of raising your children to worry about an international treaty that could actually undermine your authority over them.

But if you’ve ever insisted that your teenager drag himself out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend church with the family, or required him to find a part-time job to pay for the increase in your car insurance, or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Folks like President Obama, in fact.

The issue of parental rights is at the heart of the ongoing debate over the US’s failure to ratify the UN’s Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). Mr. Obama thinks it’s a travesty that the US and Somalia – a country not known as a beacon of human rights – are the only two nations that haven’t ratified this treaty. Not only does he support its intrusions into our national sovereignty on behalf of children, he’s openly embarrassed to be on the short list with Somalia.

Up to now, it’s been a worried American homeschool community that most vocally opposes the CRC. That’s because the treaty clearly places responsibility for the education of children in the hands of the federal government. Such a mandate would certainly threaten the freedom of states to allow, and of parents to choose, homeschooling as an option to educate their children.

But it’s not just homeschooling parents who ought to be nervous about the CRC. We all should because the language of the treaty – which would supersede all American law other than the Constitution – radically changes the authority structure between parents, children and the state. In short, in line after line, it applies the standard of “the best interests of the child” to determine what’s permissible and what isn’t.

For example, the treaty creates "the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion." So if your child doesn’t want to go to a religious school, the law would favor his preference, not your desire to instill your faith.

It prohibits "arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy," which means you’d better not snoop in your son’s pockets while sorting the laundry. This could literally be illegal, and too bad if you find something to set off your parental alarm.

In fact, in Scotland, a CRC nation, a pamphlet for Scottish children explaining how they are helped by the treaty says, “In Scotland, the law recognises that your parents should normally be the people who care for you, if it’s the best thing for you.”

That’s very different from a provision that might say, “You have the right to the protection and care of your parents and can only be removed from your family if you are the victim of abuse or neglect.” The reason it doesn’t read this way is because that’s not what the CRC intends.

And who decides what’s “the best thing”? Take a guess.

It makes sense that the US stands nearly alone in refusing to ratify this treaty, since we live in the safest, most prosperous, most desirable country in which to be a child.

The CRC makes sense in places where girls can be sold into marriage at age 10, or where children are routinely victims of the sex trades, or of child labor abuse.

But in the US, the only logical reason to sign the CRC is to expand, through that new “international order” the president mentioned this past weekend, the role of the federal government into the daily lives and decisions of American parents and families.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has introduced S.R. 519, opposing ratification of the CRC. He hopes to find 34 co-sponsors and thereby signal to the president that there’s no need to send the treaty to the Senate for advice and consent since it wouldn’t pass. This is the end-run play; the game winner is a Parental Rights Amendment to the Constitution.

It’s a good time to call a Senator or two and encourage them to join in co-sponsoring Sen. DeMint’s resolution.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 57.

#1. To: Eric Stratton (#0)

or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Assaulting kids is not within the proper realm of "parental judgment" for any being more advanced than the chimps.

If the best or only option one can come up with is to use ones overwhelming physical advantage to hurt ones child - then one is a failed parent who is unfit to have custody of anyone.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-05-26   12:11:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Patriot Henry (#1)

If the best or only option one can come up with is to use ones overwhelming physical advantage to hurt ones child - then one is a failed parent who is unfit to have custody of anyone.

That's insane. You know full well that spanking isn't about inflict injury, it is to establish societal norms. Often times the only way to deal with a two-year-old is a slap on the hand and immediate denouement. Outlawing common sense empowers tyrants.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-05-26   21:09:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Dakmar (#3)

That's insane. You know full well that spanking isn't about inflict injury, it is to establish societal norms. Often times the only way to deal with a two-year-old is a slap on the hand and immediate denouement. Outlawing common sense empowers tyrants.

Spanking is about inflicting pain. Using pain as a negative reinforcement method on a child is a means befitting sociopathic Pavlovian social engineers and barbaric brutes.

If the only or best means available to you to communicate and teach a 2 year old is brute force - then you have failed and the child has not.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   12:30:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Patriot Henry (#4)

Have you ever had children, or are you just preaching what you've been told?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-04   13:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: FormerLurker (#5)

Have you ever had children, or are you just preaching what you've been told?

Neither. My views are determined through my using my ability to reason.

A 120-220+ pound person hurting a 20-80lb person under the pretext of "BECAUSE I SAID SO" is behavior that belongs to primates, primitives, and the like.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   14:22:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Patriot Henry (#6)

Neither. My views are determined through my using my ability to reason.

Ah hah, another know it all who's never raised a child who thinks he knows everything there is to know. Go make a baby and come back to us when you have some real experience with children, and don't rely on bullshit you read in books for your "expertise".

A 120-220+ pound person hurting a 20-80lb person under the pretext of "BECAUSE I SAID SO" is behavior that belongs to primates, primitives, and the like.

A parent doesn't spank a child to "hurt them", a parent spanks a child to teach them things like they can't stick forks into electrical outlets and other such important things. Be around a toddler sometime, they are VERY curious, stubborn, and determined to do what it is they feel like doing, and the ONLY way to teach them NOT to do that thing that happens to be EXTREMELY dangerous is to give them a mild spank on the bum or a slap on the hand, since words do NOT matter.

I suppose people like you would try to reason with them, and then allow them to kill themselves since you are so afraid of "hurting" them. That, or allow them to do whatever they please, from whipping turds all over the house, to breaking everything they can find, if so inclined.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-04   15:16:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: FormerLurker (#8)

Ah hah, another know it all who's never raised a child who thinks he knows everything there is to know. Go make a baby and come back to us when you have some real experience with children, and don't rely on bullshit you read in books for your "expertise".

As I said, I base my views on REASON. I also never claimed to know everything there is to know about the subject of raising kids. I only said that spanking kids is wrong, and should be illegal, just like spanking your parents, your siblings, your neighbors, your teachers, your policemen (try spanking a cop the next time you meet a jerk in uniform and see how that goes for you).

Assaulting a child is the sign of being weak, morally intellectually and emotionally.

Perhaps I should speak on your level: UGGG UGGG UGGG uhhh UGG!

A parent doesn't spank a child to "hurt them"

Right. That's why they hit the child and the child cries and screams in pain in direct response to being hit. Cause and effect are not related?

a parent spanks a child to teach them things like they can't stick forks into electrical outlets and other such important things.

Yes, other important things, like to always get "A"s, or to take out the trash now and not in five minutes, or because the parent changed the rule/standard in an arbitrary and irrational manner, or because.... well there's so many parents and so many reasons they abuse their kids there isn't any point trying to list them all.

" Be around a toddler sometime, they are VERY curious, stubborn, and determined to do what it is they feel like doing, and the ONLY way to teach them NOT to do that thing that happens to be EXTREMELY dangerous is to give them a mild spank on the bum or a slap on the hand, since words do NOT matter. "

That depends on the child - some kids can understand words and the concept of danger at that age. It also depends on the parents ability to communicate. Also, many times the child being violently beat is not a toddler and the "lesson" has nothing to do with danger.

>>I suppose people like you would try to reason with them, and then allow them to kill themselves since you are so afraid of "hurting" them. That, or allow them to do whatever they please, from whipping turds all over the house, to breaking everything they can find, if so inclined.

If they don't respond to reason they are not old enough to be around dangers. If you think a 2 year old, a fork, and an uncovered outlet is a safe situation in which any dangers that arise can be settled by hitting the kid then YOU ARE A FAILURE.

When you put a child into a dangerous situation and hit them for being a kid in the dangerous situation that you put them in - YOU ARE A FAILURE.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   23:04:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Patriot Henry (#10)

If they don't respond to reason they are not old enough to be around dangers.

Look, Patriot Henry, you raise our kids as you see fit and I'll raise mine as I see fit. The cognitive ability to REASON doesn't actually come about in the human species until a kid is 12-13....that's why those years are so difficult. Kids have this new cognitive ability but they have no applicable experience to apply to experiences.

Reason with a 2 year old? lol Spoken like a person who has never spent any time with 2 year olds.

Most of us have been spanked as a child and do not view our parents as child abusers for it. In fact, when a situation called for spanking......I always FINALLY learned my lesson.

Do you suggest that parents who have a wood stove in the house opt to freeze to death rather than keep the kiddie a room with the danger where it is warm? Children are in dangerous situations all the time--electrical outlets in the house, rocks outside. The idiocy of your commentary is astounding. Your solution is to REASON with them, even when 10 time-outs fails to get your point across.

Don't quit your day job to preach parenting techniques.....

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   12:53:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: abraxas (#24)

The cognitive ability to REASON doesn't actually come about in the human species until a kid is 12-13...

So says Piaget and other "experts". I disagree. I have not infrequently seen young children exercise superior abilities of reason, judgment, and discernment than adults 20-80+.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:11:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Patriot Henry (#29)

So says Piaget and other "experts". I disagree. I have not infrequently seen young children exercise superior abilities of reason, judgment, and discernment than adults 20-80+.

I'm quite certain that you have as much experience with middle schoolers as you have had parenting--nada, zip, zilch.

I think your experience with children in general has been even less than infrequent. And, your less than infrequent observasations really don't stand up to the work of theorists who spent their lives researching the matter or people what actually spend time parenting or teaching kids of all ages day in and day out.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   13:21:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: abraxas (#31)

I'm quite certain that you have as much experience with middle schoolers as you have had parenting--nada, zip, zilch.

I was actually referring to kids as young as 4-5 years of age. They often can outthink people who have gotten PhDs, as they haven't gone through the process of being dumbed down, indoctrinated, and having their soul, curiosity, and imagination killed.

I think your experience with children in general has been even less than infrequent. And, your less than infrequent observasations really don't stand up to the work of theorists who spent their lives researching the matter or people what actually spend time parenting or teaching kids of all ages day in and day out.

That is the fallacy of authority. The "experts" are a bunch of statists- as are the teachers and almost all of the parents. Is it any surprise that those people who are subjected to being controlled by an arbitrary and capricious system run by the insane and the idiotic (and whom are often those very insane and idiotic enforcers of that system) happen to believe in the convenient neat simpleton theories that are conducive to insane and idiotic people controlling their kids by an arbitrary and capricious system?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:37:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Patriot Henry (#33)

First, thinking and REASONING aren't the same thing.

Yes, all the world is wrong and only Patriot Henry holds the torch of truth. Get a load of yourself......a pantload.

Frankly, I believe that the reason young people today can't even wipe their own asses for themselves after graduating high school is because far to many liberals, like you, are having kids and raising them to be teat sucking welfare recipients, rather than adults who are accountable for their actions and have an iota of control over their emotions.

Rather than spewing insults at parents and spewing idiocy, why don't you get some therapy for the damage done by your hippie parents?

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   13:42:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: abraxas (#35)

Frankly, I believe that the reason young people today can't even wipe their own asses for themselves after graduating high school is because far to many liberals, like you, are having kids and raising them to be teat sucking welfare recipients, rather than adults who are accountable for their actions and have an iota of control over their emotions.

So the way to teach kids to be responsible for their actions is through pain?

I'm not a "liberal". My opposition to your barbaric parental practices doesn't mean I'm a "softie". You say I am one of those monsters - but they would say I am one of you because I defend the slapping of kids hands to keep the hands off the stove. My opposition to parents hurting their kids because they are unfit doesn't make me a "liberal".

Rather than spewing insults at parents and spewing idiocy, why don't you get some therapy for the damage done by your hippie parents?

What would you suggest, a dominatrix with a belt?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:59:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Patriot Henry (#37)

So the way to teach kids to be responsible for their actions is through pain?

A kid will forget a spanking in an hour or two......but they will remember hateful words yelled at them for the rest of their lives.

Like I stated previously, a spanking is not about inflicting pain it is about teaching a child that there is a consequence for actions. I don't even necessarily advocate for it, but if a parent states that a spanking is the consequence, then follow through is crucial. Generally, a child who knows that the parent is serious, not just yelling again and again and again, about following through on disciple, then a kid will self correct prior to spanking.

On the other hand, if a parent has no follow through, then the child will continue to undermine the parental authority even when the child could hurt themselves or others by their actions. In almost all cases, a child that continues to misbehave without consequences ends up hurting themselves as others do not want to be around that child as the behaviour problems move from the home into the outer world. Worse, the child doesn't learn to be accountable for their actions. Believe it or not, children WANT and NEED boundaries.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   14:30:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: abraxas (#44)

A kid will forget a spanking in an hour or two......but they will remember hateful words yelled at them for the rest of their lives.

That explains all of the people who talk about the times Papa would break out the belt, or Mama with the spoon, etc etc etc. They may or may not support it, but they almost always have that same sad submissive look on their faces.

Like I stated previously, a spanking is not about inflicting pain it is about teaching a child that there is a consequence for actions.

I'm familiar with Pavlovian conditioning. When inflicting pain is the means for teaching - it is an essential and defining part of the lesson. The lesson you are teaching is "If you don't obey authority figures they will hurt you". Great lesson you teach your kids.

On the other hand, if a parent has no follow through, then the child will continue to undermine the parental authority even when the child could hurt themselves or others by their actions.

Only if that child is stupid, insane, or a bad person. Kids can listen to reason at a very young age. They aren't that stupid, insane, or bad. Teaching them to do the right thing is much more effective at raising good people than is teaching them to obey.

In almost all cases, a child that continues to misbehave without consequences ends up hurting themselves as others do not want to be around that child as the behaviour problems move from the home into the outer world.

There are many other consequences available to a parent other than pain. A pattern of misbehaving is a reflection of either poor character (can't do nothing about that) or a failure of the parents to impose a rational system of rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior predicated upon reason and the education and explanation of reason and the system and the rules.

Worse, the child doesn't learn to be accountable for their actions. Believe it or not, children WANT and NEED boundaries.

Boundaries are good and fine. So is holding kids and people accountable for their actions. Why don't kids want to be accountable for their actions? Perhaps it's because rather than suffering the consequences of their actions they will be forcibly restrained by a stronger human being who will then torture them into submission. Ever think about that?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   15:53:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 57.

#58. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

Only if that child is stupid, insane, or a bad person. Kids can listen to reason at a very young age.

a stronger human being who will then torture them into submission.

So, is that your stellar analysis for your brother? Did he listen to reason? No. Why not? Was it supid or insane or simply that he's a bad person?

A patten of misbehavior is a child who wants boundaries. Simple as that. Kids do want to be held accountable for their actions and they need to know when their actions are not acceptable--hence the repeat of the behavior until the lesson is learned.

Torture them.....lol. You're drowning me in melodramatics here.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06 16:02:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

Patriot Henry, on this topic you are so overwhelmed you are contradicting your own arguments. Re-read your last arguments please, and really think about it.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06 16:04:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

That explains all of the people who talk about the times Papa would break out the belt, or Mama with the spoon, etc etc etc. They may or may not support it, but they almost always have that same sad submissive look on their faces.

These are people who suffer victim mentality. It's always somebody else's fault that they are screwed up in some way. Must be mommy and daddy to blame, even when they are 45 and standing in the welfare line, knocking on mommy and daddy's door to take them in again.

When mommy and daddy finally learn the value of actually saying no to their little darlings, then mommy and daddy are the mean ebil villians who are the root of all their problems.

Even recently this daddy hit me excuse was used to justify cheating on a spouse multiple times.........I suppose you bought that idiocy hook, line and stinker.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06 16:06:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 57.

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