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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Source: townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/Mary ... r_issue_than_rights_of_a_child
Published: May 26, 2010
Author: Marybeth Hicks
Post Date: 2010-05-26 09:06:24 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1159
Comments: 132

Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Marybeth Hicks
Wednesday, May 26, 2010

If you’re a parent, you’re probably too busy doing the day-to-day work of raising your children to worry about an international treaty that could actually undermine your authority over them.

But if you’ve ever insisted that your teenager drag himself out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend church with the family, or required him to find a part-time job to pay for the increase in your car insurance, or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Folks like President Obama, in fact.

The issue of parental rights is at the heart of the ongoing debate over the US’s failure to ratify the UN’s Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). Mr. Obama thinks it’s a travesty that the US and Somalia – a country not known as a beacon of human rights – are the only two nations that haven’t ratified this treaty. Not only does he support its intrusions into our national sovereignty on behalf of children, he’s openly embarrassed to be on the short list with Somalia.

Up to now, it’s been a worried American homeschool community that most vocally opposes the CRC. That’s because the treaty clearly places responsibility for the education of children in the hands of the federal government. Such a mandate would certainly threaten the freedom of states to allow, and of parents to choose, homeschooling as an option to educate their children.

But it’s not just homeschooling parents who ought to be nervous about the CRC. We all should because the language of the treaty – which would supersede all American law other than the Constitution – radically changes the authority structure between parents, children and the state. In short, in line after line, it applies the standard of “the best interests of the child” to determine what’s permissible and what isn’t.

For example, the treaty creates "the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion." So if your child doesn’t want to go to a religious school, the law would favor his preference, not your desire to instill your faith.

It prohibits "arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy," which means you’d better not snoop in your son’s pockets while sorting the laundry. This could literally be illegal, and too bad if you find something to set off your parental alarm.

In fact, in Scotland, a CRC nation, a pamphlet for Scottish children explaining how they are helped by the treaty says, “In Scotland, the law recognises that your parents should normally be the people who care for you, if it’s the best thing for you.”

That’s very different from a provision that might say, “You have the right to the protection and care of your parents and can only be removed from your family if you are the victim of abuse or neglect.” The reason it doesn’t read this way is because that’s not what the CRC intends.

And who decides what’s “the best thing”? Take a guess.

It makes sense that the US stands nearly alone in refusing to ratify this treaty, since we live in the safest, most prosperous, most desirable country in which to be a child.

The CRC makes sense in places where girls can be sold into marriage at age 10, or where children are routinely victims of the sex trades, or of child labor abuse.

But in the US, the only logical reason to sign the CRC is to expand, through that new “international order” the president mentioned this past weekend, the role of the federal government into the daily lives and decisions of American parents and families.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has introduced S.R. 519, opposing ratification of the CRC. He hopes to find 34 co-sponsors and thereby signal to the president that there’s no need to send the treaty to the Senate for advice and consent since it wouldn’t pass. This is the end-run play; the game winner is a Parental Rights Amendment to the Constitution.

It’s a good time to call a Senator or two and encourage them to join in co-sponsoring Sen. DeMint’s resolution.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 60.

#1. To: Eric Stratton (#0)

or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Assaulting kids is not within the proper realm of "parental judgment" for any being more advanced than the chimps.

If the best or only option one can come up with is to use ones overwhelming physical advantage to hurt ones child - then one is a failed parent who is unfit to have custody of anyone.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-05-26   12:11:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Patriot Henry (#1)

If the best or only option one can come up with is to use ones overwhelming physical advantage to hurt ones child - then one is a failed parent who is unfit to have custody of anyone.

That's insane. You know full well that spanking isn't about inflict injury, it is to establish societal norms. Often times the only way to deal with a two-year-old is a slap on the hand and immediate denouement. Outlawing common sense empowers tyrants.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-05-26   21:09:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Dakmar (#3)

That's insane. You know full well that spanking isn't about inflict injury, it is to establish societal norms. Often times the only way to deal with a two-year-old is a slap on the hand and immediate denouement. Outlawing common sense empowers tyrants.

Spanking is about inflicting pain. Using pain as a negative reinforcement method on a child is a means befitting sociopathic Pavlovian social engineers and barbaric brutes.

If the only or best means available to you to communicate and teach a 2 year old is brute force - then you have failed and the child has not.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   12:30:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Patriot Henry (#4)

Have you ever had children, or are you just preaching what you've been told?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-04   13:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: FormerLurker (#5)

Have you ever had children, or are you just preaching what you've been told?

Neither. My views are determined through my using my ability to reason.

A 120-220+ pound person hurting a 20-80lb person under the pretext of "BECAUSE I SAID SO" is behavior that belongs to primates, primitives, and the like.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   14:22:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Patriot Henry (#6)

Neither. My views are determined through my using my ability to reason.

Ah hah, another know it all who's never raised a child who thinks he knows everything there is to know. Go make a baby and come back to us when you have some real experience with children, and don't rely on bullshit you read in books for your "expertise".

A 120-220+ pound person hurting a 20-80lb person under the pretext of "BECAUSE I SAID SO" is behavior that belongs to primates, primitives, and the like.

A parent doesn't spank a child to "hurt them", a parent spanks a child to teach them things like they can't stick forks into electrical outlets and other such important things. Be around a toddler sometime, they are VERY curious, stubborn, and determined to do what it is they feel like doing, and the ONLY way to teach them NOT to do that thing that happens to be EXTREMELY dangerous is to give them a mild spank on the bum or a slap on the hand, since words do NOT matter.

I suppose people like you would try to reason with them, and then allow them to kill themselves since you are so afraid of "hurting" them. That, or allow them to do whatever they please, from whipping turds all over the house, to breaking everything they can find, if so inclined.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-04   15:16:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: FormerLurker, Patriot Henry, SonOfLiberty (#8)

A parent doesn't spank a child to "hurt them", a parent spanks a child to teach them things like they can't stick forks into electrical outlets and other such important things.

I used to babysit for my neighbors, and they had an extremely bratty three year old boy. This boy insisted on fiddling with the wooden stick propping up a large window on their enclosed porch. While I was watching him, he wasn't allowed to pull on the stick, but one day I was over there while his parents were home, and they kept trying to deter him with pleas of "No, Junior, baby mustn't play with with stick". What do you suppose happened?

Whammo, once Junior pulled that stick out the window came crashing down, damned near severing three of the little tykes fingers, they had to ruch him to the emergency room. I thought my smacking his hands away (and once or twice pushing him backward to fall on his butt) was much more productive. Of course, locking the little bugger in his room would have been even better, but he kept screaming so his Mommy would let him out after five minutes, and of course he'd head straight for the window.

All in all, I gotta vote for a slap on the hand given the options in that particular case.

PH: Yes, I realize the parents were idiots, the mother anyway. The father, best I recall, agreed that a slap on the hand was most elegant solution to safeguard Junior's long-term well-being.

Dakmar  posted on  2010-06-04   19:02:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Dakmar, FormerLurker, SonOfLiberty (#9)

All in all, I gotta vote for a slap on the hand given the options in that particular case.

There is a major difference between a slap on the hand in defense of the child and a series of premeditated or impulsive strikes intended to hurt or harm the child.

Situation 1. A child is about to touch a hot stove. The mother slaps their hand to keep them from burning their hand.

Situation 2. A child says "those shoes are ugly". The mother spanks the child 20 times.

Situation 3. A child finishes their homework by 6pm as their parent ordered them to. The parent flies off the handle and says "I said 5pm you brat" and then hits the child 5 times before spanking them 10 times.

According to the advocates of child abuse, all of these are fine and dandy.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   23:11:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Patriot Henry (#11)

Situation 1... Situation 2... Situation 3...

I didn't realize you were one of those screamin mimis.

Critter  posted on  2010-06-04   23:16:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Critter (#13)

I didn't realize you were one of those screamin mimis.

Situation 4. Child hits a triple winning the Little League game. After they get home, Dad says "I told you to get a home run" and then spanks the child 12 times.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-04   23:18:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Patriot Henry (#15) (Edited)

Situation 4. Child hits a triple winning the Little League game. After they get home, Dad says "I told you to get a home run" and then spanks the child 12 times.

Well there we go, your parents were horrible monsters so ALL parents must be horrible monsters. Get some help before you end up worse than them.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-05   20:45:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#20)

Well there we go, your parents were horrible monsters so ALL parents must be horrible monsters. Get some help before you end up worse than them.

My parents were liberal "hippies" from Mass. Horrible monsters in some ways but they didn't hurt their kids (at least not physically speaking).

I never said ALL parents were horrible monsters. I was and am saying that the use of pain as a compliance technique is the method of monsters.

Is it okay to use electricity on a child? One can easily control the power so that it hurts no more and no less than a particular slap or spanking or belt.

Or how about making them kneel or maintain other painful physical positions?

And of course, using a large board to beat them is okay in many states, so you don't have any problem with that right?

You don't see any potential problem with authorizing parents to use pain and physical harm as a means of parenting with the only standard being that it can't result in any lasting physical damage? You don't see anything wrong with authorizing parents to abuse and torture their kids?

Situation 6. Everyday before dinner Momma spanks each child 25 times, for making her cook the dinner. Every single day until they are 18 or run away.

You are cool with that? After all, it's just "parental control" right?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   12:36:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Patriot Henry (#23)

You don't see anything wrong with authorizing parents to abuse and torture their kids?

Situation 6. Everyday before dinner Momma spanks each child 25 times, for making her cook the dinner. Every single day until they are 18 or run away.

Gee, could up pump up the melodrama a bit more? Even your hypotheticals are ridiculous for a person who claims to have a firm grasp on reason.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   12:55:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: abraxas (#25)

Gee, could up pump up the melodrama a bit more? Even your hypotheticals are ridiculous for a person who claims to have a firm grasp on reason.

Many parents are stupid, insane, or otherwise incompetent and they create situations which are melodramatic and dramatic for no good reason.

The only thing y'all have done with the situations I have posited is to ignore them. You do the exact same thing with the real life equivalents. You ignore them. You remain ignorant and cover your ears and your eyes and pretend that the only use of pain compliance is moderate, reasonable, and judiciously executed by a caring loving parent.

Why do y'all have to ignore the real world applications of parental pain compliance? Is it because you actually hurt your kids for no good reason in a barbaric and savage manner, or because your parents did that to you, or because you are so naive and innocent you just can't imagine how horrible and stupid other people are?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:06:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Patriot Henry (#27)

Many parents are stupid, insane, or otherwise incompetent and they create situations which are melodramatic and dramatic for no good reason.

And this you know from absolutely no personal experience?

Furthmore, you have no idea what I do or do not do in real life situations. Your entire premise is completely unsubstantiated. Don't tell me what I ignore or do not ignore. Speaking of ignorant of the facts......let me remind you that you have no parenting experience--nada, zip, zilch.

Where did you pull this "parental pain compliance" diatriabe from? Do you honestly believe that parents "hurt their kids for no good reason in a barbaric and savage manner"? Really? Slapping a hand and a swat on the butt is never for no good reason and it is neither barbaric or savage.

Please, for the good of the gene pool.......don't have children.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   13:17:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: abraxas (#30)

And this you know from absolutely no personal experience?

I do know that from my own life. There is also ample statistical and scientific research documenting that many parents are idiots, madmen, fools, hypocrites, and otherwise unable to use pain in an appropriate manner for a parent, particularly under the incredibly broad powers awarded to them by the state.

Furthmore, you have no idea what I do or do not do in real life situations. Your entire premise is completely unsubstantiated.

My premise is substantiated. Many parents hurt their kids in ways that should be punished by time in a cage.

Where did you pull this "parental pain compliance" diatriabe from?

I was inspired by watching the knuckle draggers, the hooligans with younger hooligans, the fools, the idiots, etc.

Do you honestly believe that parents "hurt their kids for no good reason in a barbaric and savage manner"? Really? Slapping a hand and a swat on the butt is never for no good reason and it is neither barbaric or savage.

You are FUCKING WRONG. You really believe that EVERY SINGLE TIME a parent hits their kid it's for a good reason? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

If you were a kid you would be naive and it would be cute. At your age it's ignorance and it's fucking ugly.

Wake the fuck up - this ain't Mr. Rogers fucking neighborhood!

Please, for the good of the gene pool.......don't have children.

Right - the one person who has the intelligence and moral fiber not to assault the weak and defenseless shouldn't reproduce, but the masses of morons, psychos, and other incompetents should, as they are willing to hurt their own children because their idiocy, insanity, or foolishness says so.

What the fuck is your malfunction?

Maybe it's a guilty conscience from all the times you hurt your kids for no good reason or no reason at all? Maybe you remember them screaming, crying, perhaps bleeding and you have to justify that?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:27:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Patriot Henry (#32)

You are FUCKING WRONG. You really believe that EVERY SINGLE TIME a parent hits their kid it's for a good reason? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

If you were a kid you would be naive and it would be cute. At your age it's ignorance and it's fucking ugly.

As a parent, and a friend of MANY other parents, I can state that in my experiences I have NEVER seen a parent slap a hand or spank a child for no good reason. NOT ONCE. Yes, I'm sure there are parents out there who abuse their power, like a liberal yelling at the top of their lungs cursing at others on the interneet.

Stop spitting on your monitor and get control of yourself. I can see how you would parent. Yell and curse at the kids while you play holier than thou. Yeah, that REALLY gets your point across......not.

When you can't muster up an intelligent commentary and your child refuses to reason are you going to say, "WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR MALFUNCTION?" Just call those who don't agree with you fucking morons......use that fuck adjective liberally because it's just so darn effective. (eyes rolling)

You are verbally assaulting on this thread, yet you want to wag your finger all around at people you do not know and have absolutely no knowledge about. Astounding really. What happened to reason?

I have no guilty conscience......lol. You're killin' me here with this liberal idiocy. Again, for the good of the gene pool and to keep the instances of verbal abuse against children down--don't have any kids.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   13:38:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: abraxas (#34)

As a parent, and a friend of MANY other parents, I can state that in my experiences I have NEVER seen a parent slap a hand or spank a child for no good reason. NOT ONCE. Yes, I'm sure there are parents out there who abuse their power, like a liberal yelling at the top of their lungs cursing at others on the interneet.

And all you've seen is all there is to see? Nope.

Stop spitting on your monitor and get control of yourself. I can see how you would parent. Yell and curse at the kids while you play holier than thou. Yeah, that REALLY gets your point across......not.

Not much will get a point across to folks who have no problem with insane parents hurting their kids with a large board for absolutely no reason..or any of the other abuses that routinely happen by the means you defend.

When you can't muster up an intelligent commentary and your child refuses to reason are you going to say, "WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR MALFUNCTION?" Just call those who don't agree with you fucking morons......use that fuck adjective liberally because it's just so darn effective. (eyes rolling)

Reason won't work with you, now will it? Maybe I should come over there and smack you one. That will work right? That's the language you speak?

You are verbally assaulting on this thread, yet you want to wag your finger all around at people you do not know and have absolutely no knowledge about. Astounding really. What happened to reason?

I have enough knowledge about you to judge you - you are willing to blindly support the use of pain by parents without considering the actual range of natures of parents, kids, and pain compliance.

You are willing to defend child abuse. What good will reason do with the likes of you?

Also, I was hungry and my blood sugar dropped. I apologize for the profanity and shocking lack of manners.

I have no guilty conscience......lol. You're killin' me here with this liberal idiocy. Again, for the good of the gene pool and to keep the instances of verbal abuse against children down--don't have any kids.

Right, so I should not have kids lest I yell at them in an inappropriate manner, but it's okay for others to have kids and for them to hit/hurt their kids in an inappropriate manner?

Gotcha. Child abuse is fine so long as it's done with the fist, the belt, the boot, the elbow, the board. My mind is not swayed.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   13:53:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Patriot Henry (#36)

Reason won't work with you, now will it?

Right, so I should not have kids lest I yell at them in an inappropriate manner, but it's okay for others to have kids and for them to hit/hurt their kids in an inappropriate manner.

I have enough knowledge about you to judge you - you are willing to blindly support the use of pain by parents without considering the actual range of natures of parents, kids, and pain compliance.

I have yet to witness any reasoning from you. Try more use of fuck in your posts because that's real effective. Are you going to use the blood sugar excuse on your kids too? I think they will be as willing to except that excuse as I am.

I am for being accountable for my actions and I teach my children to be accountable for theirs. Parenting is about setting boundaries. A spanking isn't about an abuse of power it is about teaching a child that there are consequences for actions when time outs are not successful in teaching the lesson.

A reasoning person would actually be able to articulate the difference between slapping a kid on the hand or a swat on the butt and child abuse. A reasoning person would clearly be able to see that verbal abuse is actually just as destructive as spanking for no good reason. Yelling is simply an inability for a parent to control their emotions.......yes, I'm guilty of yelling at times and I honestly feel more guilt over that than following through on a spanking after time outs failed to deter the behaviour that required discipline.

I blindly support nothing. I actually have experience in this arena of using a range of behavior modifications with children, with positive results. You, on the other hand, have none.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   14:10:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: abraxas (#39)

I have yet to witness any reasoning from you. Try more use of fuck in your posts because that's real effective. Are you going to use the blood sugar excuse on your kids too? I think they will be as willing to except that excuse as I am.

Well, if they don't accept that I can just hurt them until they do, right?

A spanking isn't about an abuse of power it is about teaching a child that there are consequences for actions when time outs are not successful in teaching the lesson.

It is an abuse of power. The lesson is "Might makes right".

I blindly support nothing. I actually have experience in this arena of using a range of behavior modifications with children, with positive results. You, on the other hand, have none.

I've watched kids before. Never hit one, never needed to. With the sole exception of immediate danger I've also never seen or heard of a situation where it was necessary.

In addition, there are quite a few non"liberal" folks who manage to raise kids without hurting them. There is no evidence that it is a necessary tool for parenting. There is ample evidence it lends itself to abuse. It really is a tool of primates and primitives, and of course their sophisticated cousins the psychologists, psychiatrists, and statists who treat human beings as Pavlov treated his dogs.

If I have children, I plan to raise them to be civilized human beings. If I change my mind and decide to raise them as I would raise an animal in a behavioral science experiment, I will be using some of your techniques.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   15:28:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Patriot Henry (#49)

It is an abuse of power. The lesson is "Might makes right".

I've watched kids before. Never hit one, never needed to. With the sole exception of immediate danger I've also never seen or heard of a situation where it was necessary.

No, it isn't. It's about making choices and facing consequences for the choices one makes. Often, it IS to keep them away from dangers, as examples have clearly articulated on this thread.

Again, I don't view a slap on the hand or a spanking as hurting kids. Hurting them is providing no boundaries and allowing the go through life without understanding the simple lesson that there are consequences for one's actions.

Okay, you provide this "ample evidence" that spanking leads to abuse. Frankly, I think you are attempting to blow smoke up my butt.

My children are wonderfully civilized. Amazing, considering I'm such an abusive barbarian. lol

Oh please, watching kids isn't parenting, Patriot Henry. And you don't see any problem with using obsenities to make your point and calling others names. Behaviours I will not tolerate in my kids. I suppose you think that washing a mouth out with soap is abuse too........to bad your folks didn't try that with you, I've heard other parents claim positive results with that method.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   15:40:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: abraxas (#51)

Again, I don't view a slap on the hand or a spanking as hurting kids. Hurting them is providing no boundaries and allowing the go through life without understanding the simple lesson that there are consequences for one's actions.

And so frequently hitting them for no good reason isn't hurting them? Sure. Right. Hitting your kids because you had a bad day at work doesn't hurt them. Yep. That's a perfectly valid reason. Oh wait, that never happens because you don't see it in your little part of the world?

My children are wonderfully civilized. Amazing, considering I'm such an abusive barbarian.

Do they believe it is proper for a large man to hit a little kid? If so they ain't so civilized.

And you don't see any problem with using obsenities to make your point and calling others names.

I do. I just don't give a damn if I'm rude to people who hit children. I ain't saying it's right to be rude, because it ain't.

Behaviours I will not tolerate in my kids.

But you won't say a word when they treat a toddler in a way that would land them in jail if it wasn't their kid?

I suppose you think that washing a mouth out with soap is abuse too........to bad your folks didn't try that with you, I've heard other parents claim positive results with that method.

Yes, that is abuse. It's physical torture. It's barbaric. It's stupid. It's insane. How about a live wire on the tongue? That's perfectly fine "parental control" eh?

Why would my parents have needed to treat me like a piece of dirty laundry?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   16:05:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 60.

#63. To: Patriot Henry (#60) (Edited)

And so frequently hitting them for no good reason isn't hurting them?

Do they believe it is proper for a large man to hit a little kid? If so they ain't so civilized.

But you won't say a word when they treat a toddler in a way that would land them in jail if it wasn't their kid?

Why would my parents have needed to treat me like a piece of dirty laundry?

Who is "freguently hitting them for no good reason"? Who is hitting them over a bad day at work?

I'm not a large man. In fact, I'm completely lacking in the testical department. And, like I stated before, my kids are wonderfully civilized. In fact, I often am complemented on how well behaved and what good manners my children have.

Who are "they" and what is the infraction? No, I won't send parents to jail for slapping a kid on the hand or spanking them, not even for washing their mouths out with soap.

Perhaps, it would help you communicate without the overuse of the word fuck.

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06 16:13:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 60.

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