[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

1200 Electric School Busses pulled from service due to fires.

Is the Deep State Covering Up Charlie Kirk’s Murder? The FBI’s Bizarre Inconsistencies Exposed

Local Governments Can Be Ignorant Pissers!!

Cash Jordan: Gangs PLUNDER LA Mall... as California’s “NO JAILS” Strategy IMPLODES

Margin Debt Tops Historic $1 Trillion, Your House Will Be Taken Blindly Warns Dohmen

Tucker Carlson LIVE: America After Charlie Kirk

Charlie Kirk allegedly recently refused $150 million from Israel to take more pro Israel stances

"NATO just declared War on Russia!"Co; Douglas Macgregor

If You're Trying To Lose Weight But Gaining Belly Fat, Watch Insulin

Arabica Coffee Prices Soar As Analyst Warns of "Weather Disasters" Risk Denting Global Production

Candace Owens: : I Know What Happened at the Hamptons (Ackman confronted Charlie Kirk)

Illegal Alien Drunk Driver Mows Down, Kills 16-Year-Old Girl Who Rejected His Lewd Advances

STOP Drinking These 5 Coffees – They’re Quietly DESTROYING Your Gut & Hormones

This Works Better Than Ozempic for Belly Fat

Cinnamon reduces fat

How long do health influencers live? Episode 1 of 3.

'Armed Queers' Marxist Revolutionaries Under Investigation For Possible Foreknowledge Of Kirk's Assassination Plot

Who Killed Charlie Kirk? the Case Against Israel

Sen. Grassley announces a whistleblower has exposed the FBI program “Arctic Frost” for targeting 92 Republican groups

Keto, Ivermectin, & Fenbendazole: New Cancer Treatment Protocol Gains Momentum

Bill Ackman 'Hammered' Charlie Kirk in August 'Intervention' for Platforming Israel Critics

"I've Never Experienced Crime Of This Magnitude Before": 20-Year Veteran Austrian Police Spox

The UK is F*CKED, and the people have had enough

No place for hate apeech

America and Israel both told Qatar to allow Hamas to stay in their country

Video | Robert Kennedy brings down the house.

Owner releases video of Trump banner ripping, shooting in WNC

Cash Jordan: Looters ‘Forcibly Evict’ Millionaires… as California’s “NO ARRESTS” Policy BACKFIRES

Dallas Motel Horror: Immigrant Machete Killer Caught

America has been infiltrated and occupied Netanyahu 1980


Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Source: townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/Mary ... r_issue_than_rights_of_a_child
Published: May 26, 2010
Author: Marybeth Hicks
Post Date: 2010-05-26 09:06:24 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1162
Comments: 132

Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Marybeth Hicks
Wednesday, May 26, 2010

If you’re a parent, you’re probably too busy doing the day-to-day work of raising your children to worry about an international treaty that could actually undermine your authority over them.

But if you’ve ever insisted that your teenager drag himself out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend church with the family, or required him to find a part-time job to pay for the increase in your car insurance, or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Folks like President Obama, in fact.

The issue of parental rights is at the heart of the ongoing debate over the US’s failure to ratify the UN’s Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). Mr. Obama thinks it’s a travesty that the US and Somalia – a country not known as a beacon of human rights – are the only two nations that haven’t ratified this treaty. Not only does he support its intrusions into our national sovereignty on behalf of children, he’s openly embarrassed to be on the short list with Somalia.

Up to now, it’s been a worried American homeschool community that most vocally opposes the CRC. That’s because the treaty clearly places responsibility for the education of children in the hands of the federal government. Such a mandate would certainly threaten the freedom of states to allow, and of parents to choose, homeschooling as an option to educate their children.

But it’s not just homeschooling parents who ought to be nervous about the CRC. We all should because the language of the treaty – which would supersede all American law other than the Constitution – radically changes the authority structure between parents, children and the state. In short, in line after line, it applies the standard of “the best interests of the child” to determine what’s permissible and what isn’t.

For example, the treaty creates "the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion." So if your child doesn’t want to go to a religious school, the law would favor his preference, not your desire to instill your faith.

It prohibits "arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy," which means you’d better not snoop in your son’s pockets while sorting the laundry. This could literally be illegal, and too bad if you find something to set off your parental alarm.

In fact, in Scotland, a CRC nation, a pamphlet for Scottish children explaining how they are helped by the treaty says, “In Scotland, the law recognises that your parents should normally be the people who care for you, if it’s the best thing for you.”

That’s very different from a provision that might say, “You have the right to the protection and care of your parents and can only be removed from your family if you are the victim of abuse or neglect.” The reason it doesn’t read this way is because that’s not what the CRC intends.

And who decides what’s “the best thing”? Take a guess.

It makes sense that the US stands nearly alone in refusing to ratify this treaty, since we live in the safest, most prosperous, most desirable country in which to be a child.

The CRC makes sense in places where girls can be sold into marriage at age 10, or where children are routinely victims of the sex trades, or of child labor abuse.

But in the US, the only logical reason to sign the CRC is to expand, through that new “international order” the president mentioned this past weekend, the role of the federal government into the daily lives and decisions of American parents and families.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has introduced S.R. 519, opposing ratification of the CRC. He hopes to find 34 co-sponsors and thereby signal to the president that there’s no need to send the treaty to the Senate for advice and consent since it wouldn’t pass. This is the end-run play; the game winner is a Parental Rights Amendment to the Constitution.

It’s a good time to call a Senator or two and encourage them to join in co-sponsoring Sen. DeMint’s resolution.

Click for Full Text!

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Comments (1-52) not displayed.
      .
      .
      .

#53. To: Patriot Henry (#49)

If I have children, I plan to raise them to be civilized human beings. If I change my mind and decide to raise them as I would raise an animal in a behavioral science experiment,

Sincerely it will be you who raises the child in a behavioral science experiment.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   15:42:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Patriot Henry (#52)

It makes perfect sense to replace pain compliance/torture with drugs.

Of course it does when you are perfectly willing to put your own child into a behavioral science experiment.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   15:45:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Patriot Henry (#50)

There should be a line distinguishing between those who are moderately so who go beyond that which is wrong but tolerable.

There are TONS of lines in every state. Go read your state statutes.

Yeah, that's really solved the problems hasn't it. More laws will fix it all, Nanny stater. Why, the state has done so good with dispensing speed to kiddies as you point out that they surely should have more clear laws on child abuse. Actually, they already do, but nanny staters rarely read what is already on the books regarding any issue, even if they know next to nothing about it and DEMAND more laws as a fix. Eyes rolling.

Are you going to weigh in on tv as a babysitter being child abuse?

How about YELLING and verbal abuse, no comment on that?

How about we put a cop in every home?

Oh, and are YOU going to pay for that?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   15:46:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Patriot Henry (#52)

My parents put my older brother on Ritalin. They had tried spanking first. It failed to control his behavior because he quickly seized control of the situation by forcing them to spank him. Neither method will work on any reasonably intelligent person except by destroying them in part or in whole

This explains SO much. Your parents tried spanking after they had already shown your brother THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES. Gee, I can't figure out why THAT method didn't work.

I would argue that the method failed because your parents WEREN'T CONSISTENT, opting to treat the kid like a ping pong ball in a behavior modification experiment. How old was the boy when they opted to actually do something? Next stop Ritalin. I imagine you and your brother ate crap processed foods and spent more time with the tv than your parents too.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   15:52:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: abraxas (#44)

A kid will forget a spanking in an hour or two......but they will remember hateful words yelled at them for the rest of their lives.

That explains all of the people who talk about the times Papa would break out the belt, or Mama with the spoon, etc etc etc. They may or may not support it, but they almost always have that same sad submissive look on their faces.

Like I stated previously, a spanking is not about inflicting pain it is about teaching a child that there is a consequence for actions.

I'm familiar with Pavlovian conditioning. When inflicting pain is the means for teaching - it is an essential and defining part of the lesson. The lesson you are teaching is "If you don't obey authority figures they will hurt you". Great lesson you teach your kids.

On the other hand, if a parent has no follow through, then the child will continue to undermine the parental authority even when the child could hurt themselves or others by their actions.

Only if that child is stupid, insane, or a bad person. Kids can listen to reason at a very young age. They aren't that stupid, insane, or bad. Teaching them to do the right thing is much more effective at raising good people than is teaching them to obey.

In almost all cases, a child that continues to misbehave without consequences ends up hurting themselves as others do not want to be around that child as the behaviour problems move from the home into the outer world.

There are many other consequences available to a parent other than pain. A pattern of misbehaving is a reflection of either poor character (can't do nothing about that) or a failure of the parents to impose a rational system of rewarding good behavior and punishing bad behavior predicated upon reason and the education and explanation of reason and the system and the rules.

Worse, the child doesn't learn to be accountable for their actions. Believe it or not, children WANT and NEED boundaries.

Boundaries are good and fine. So is holding kids and people accountable for their actions. Why don't kids want to be accountable for their actions? Perhaps it's because rather than suffering the consequences of their actions they will be forcibly restrained by a stronger human being who will then torture them into submission. Ever think about that?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   15:53:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

Only if that child is stupid, insane, or a bad person. Kids can listen to reason at a very young age.

a stronger human being who will then torture them into submission.

So, is that your stellar analysis for your brother? Did he listen to reason? No. Why not? Was it supid or insane or simply that he's a bad person?

A patten of misbehavior is a child who wants boundaries. Simple as that. Kids do want to be held accountable for their actions and they need to know when their actions are not acceptable--hence the repeat of the behavior until the lesson is learned.

Torture them.....lol. You're drowning me in melodramatics here.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

Patriot Henry, on this topic you are so overwhelmed you are contradicting your own arguments. Re-read your last arguments please, and really think about it.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   16:04:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: abraxas (#51)

Again, I don't view a slap on the hand or a spanking as hurting kids. Hurting them is providing no boundaries and allowing the go through life without understanding the simple lesson that there are consequences for one's actions.

And so frequently hitting them for no good reason isn't hurting them? Sure. Right. Hitting your kids because you had a bad day at work doesn't hurt them. Yep. That's a perfectly valid reason. Oh wait, that never happens because you don't see it in your little part of the world?

My children are wonderfully civilized. Amazing, considering I'm such an abusive barbarian.

Do they believe it is proper for a large man to hit a little kid? If so they ain't so civilized.

And you don't see any problem with using obsenities to make your point and calling others names.

I do. I just don't give a damn if I'm rude to people who hit children. I ain't saying it's right to be rude, because it ain't.

Behaviours I will not tolerate in my kids.

But you won't say a word when they treat a toddler in a way that would land them in jail if it wasn't their kid?

I suppose you think that washing a mouth out with soap is abuse too........to bad your folks didn't try that with you, I've heard other parents claim positive results with that method.

Yes, that is abuse. It's physical torture. It's barbaric. It's stupid. It's insane. How about a live wire on the tongue? That's perfectly fine "parental control" eh?

Why would my parents have needed to treat me like a piece of dirty laundry?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   16:05:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Patriot Henry (#57)

That explains all of the people who talk about the times Papa would break out the belt, or Mama with the spoon, etc etc etc. They may or may not support it, but they almost always have that same sad submissive look on their faces.

These are people who suffer victim mentality. It's always somebody else's fault that they are screwed up in some way. Must be mommy and daddy to blame, even when they are 45 and standing in the welfare line, knocking on mommy and daddy's door to take them in again.

When mommy and daddy finally learn the value of actually saying no to their little darlings, then mommy and daddy are the mean ebil villians who are the root of all their problems.

Even recently this daddy hit me excuse was used to justify cheating on a spouse multiple times.........I suppose you bought that idiocy hook, line and stinker.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: abraxas (#55)

There are TONS of lines in every state. Go read your state statutes.

I have read some statutes from some states. Often they permit child abuse. I for one think torture is child abuse. Opinions vary.

" Yeah, that's really solved the problems hasn't it. More laws will fix it all, Nanny stater. Why, the state has done so good with dispensing speed to kiddies as you point out that they surely should have more clear laws on child abuse. Actually, they already do, but nanny staters rarely read what is already on the books regarding any issue, even if they know next to nothing about it and DEMAND more laws as a fix. Eyes rolling. "

I would not expect the state to do it. Fewer laws and simpler ones at that would be preferable to more laws.

Are you going to weigh in on tv as a babysitter being child abuse?

It is child abuse. Absolutely. It is not criminal though. Assault is a crime. Poor decision making is not.

How about YELLING and verbal abuse, no comment on that?

Also abuse, but again not criminal.

How about we put a cop in every home?

Oh, and are YOU going to pay for that?

No and no.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   16:12:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Patriot Henry (#60) (Edited)

And so frequently hitting them for no good reason isn't hurting them?

Do they believe it is proper for a large man to hit a little kid? If so they ain't so civilized.

But you won't say a word when they treat a toddler in a way that would land them in jail if it wasn't their kid?

Why would my parents have needed to treat me like a piece of dirty laundry?

Who is "freguently hitting them for no good reason"? Who is hitting them over a bad day at work?

I'm not a large man. In fact, I'm completely lacking in the testical department. And, like I stated before, my kids are wonderfully civilized. In fact, I often am complemented on how well behaved and what good manners my children have.

Who are "they" and what is the infraction? No, I won't send parents to jail for slapping a kid on the hand or spanking them, not even for washing their mouths out with soap.

Perhaps, it would help you communicate without the overuse of the word fuck.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: abraxas (#56)

This explains SO much. Your parents tried spanking after they had already shown your brother THERE ARE NO BOUNDARIES. Gee, I can't figure out why THAT method didn't work.

No, they showed him that there were boundaries. The boundaries though were arbitrary, irrational, pointless, and not communicated to him.

I would argue that the method failed because your parents WEREN'T CONSISTENT, opting to treat the kid like a ping pong ball in a behavior modification experiment.

Consistency would make the method work, but since the method is appropriate to training a dog, I question the validity of applying that method to a human being.

How old was the boy when they opted to actually do something?

I think he might have been 2 or so when they first started to hit him as prescribed by society. After that failed for 7 or so years that's when they switched to the drugs.

Next stop Ritalin. I imagine you and your brother ate crap processed foods and spent more time with the tv than your parents too.

Wrong and wrong. No processed foods and only educational television.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   16:15:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Patriot Henry (#62)

I have read some statutes from some states. Often they permit child abuse. I for one think torture is child abuse. Opinions vary.

I would not expect the state to do it. Fewer laws and simpler ones at that would be preferable to more laws.

So basically, the laws should be rewritten according to your personal definitions and beliefs. Yeah, that's a solution.

So, who would do it? You?

Where's the reasoning in your position?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:15:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Patriot Henry (#62)

You have every right to have your opine on the definition of abuse. But you conveniently argue abuse scenes while refuting the spanking topic.

Submission leads to acceptance.

If they don’t obey the authority they will be hurt. By gun or by prison. They need to learn to accept authority.

Until they have learned they need to blindly obey.

It is you who advocate no responsibility to their actions.

I agree with you on one point. Teaching how to do things right prior to the event of repercussions is much more effective.

You certainly are confusing child abuse with spanking. Neither of us are advocating releasing a bad day.

Hurting another child intentionally is one area I would and have spanked my child for. Sorry. It worked.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   16:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Patriot Henry (#64)

The boundaries though were arbitrary, irrational, pointless, and not communicated to him.

Consistency would make the method work, but since the method is appropriate to training a dog, I question the validity of applying that method to a human being.

Precisely why the child continued to misbehave.

Works for many children in many homes all over the world. The problem in your household was not the child, it was poor parenting skills all the way around, but that is no reason for you to jump in and dictate proper parenting to all others. Projecting your own parents' failures isn't a solution to what you deem is a problem.

So, he was nine when he went on Ritalin. Poor kid.

Frankly, I've never spanked my dog. Your continual reference to dog training in tandem with parenting doesn't really work.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:22:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: abraxas (#63)

Who is "freguently hitting them for no good reason"? Who is hitting them over a bad day at work?

I would guess roughly 1 to 3 percent of parents. Maybe less, probably not too much more. There are so many ways to abuse your kids these days that the old fashioned one of beating them is mostly out of style.

I'm not a large man. In fact, I'm completely lacking in the testical department. And, like I stated before, my kids are wonderfully civilized. In fact, I often am complemented on how well behaved and what good manners my children have.

If your kids are willing to hurt a small child because they don't know what else to do - I really don't think they are "wonderfully civilized". You might not be very big - but I bet you are relative to a 2 year old.

Who are "they" and what is the infraction? No, I won't send parents to jail for slapping a kid on the hand or spanking them, not even for washing their mouths out with soap.

How about routinely spanking kids for irrational reasons?

Perhaps, it would help you communicate with overuse of the word fuck.

I didn't curse as a child. If I had, torture would only made me hate senseless authority even more than I do now.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   16:26:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: abraxas (#67)

So, he was nine when he went on Ritalin. Poor kid.

You sure have that right. Right now these drug controlled babies are beginning leadership positions in our society. Now that they have been robbed of their childhood it's hard to imagine the vengeance they will take.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   16:26:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Patriot Henry (#68) (Edited)

If your kids are willing to hurt a small child because they don't know what else to do - I really don't think they are "wonderfully civilized". You might not be very big - but I bet you are relative to a 2 year old.

How about routinely spanking kids for irrational reasons?

I would guess roughly 1 to 3 percent of parents.

What? Kids pick on other kids.......it's the nature of kids. And the responsibility of parents to teach them how to behave and to be civilized.

I don't care what you think of my children, really. Get back to me when you have some parenting experience to contribute.

What are these "irrational reasons" you speak of? I recall my dad spanking me for riding on my horse chasing this cow that used to charge people. I deserved it and I never treated a cow like that again. How can you spin that into abuse?

That's your guess, eh? Why berate those of us who aren't anywhere near your best guess?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Ragin1 (#69)

Now that they have been robbed of their childhood it's hard to imagine the vengeance they will take.

It's scary and the numbers are increasing. Now big pharma is pushing medications on pregnant women. Millions of kids medicated. IMHO, part of the problem is that they see their parents pop pills all of their lives, so they think this is normal. Parents turn to pills so they think it's okay to have their children turn to pills. It's sickening. Sigh.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   16:42:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: abraxas, Ragin1, all (#48) (Edited)

I agree with your post in its entirety!!

No cable or even regular tv stations in my home. I have a few friends who actually think THAT is child abuse because my kids do not have the History Channel or Discovery, even after telling them you can pick up great educational documentaries at the library.

My kids never whine for items marketed to kids on tv. It's wonderful. I do not want their preferences determined by commercials. Plus, they love to read and listen to music. Occassionally, they watch a DVD for a treat.

It always amazes me how people refuse to admit a TV addiction. If a person drinks for six hours a day, that's an alcoholic, but a person who parks in front of the tube for six hours a day sees no problem and just can't seem to figure out why obesity is on the rise.

An eye-opening post in a long series of well-reasoned and well-intentioned posts in this thread. Thanks for your effort!

Your patient reasoning, with a poster whose very self-expression reads as like a poster-child for the fruits of nanny-state indoctrination, itself displays all the characteristics of a good parent. Not to mention the wit and snap of authority that made it worth following this thread documenting yet another ego-surfing problem poster!

Since this poster displays some of the brain damage characteristic of exposure to Ritalin, the adult antidepressants and the mediaMatrix, it makes me sad for all the children of neglect: They had TV as baby-sitter, poor food, material bribes but not enough of the most important of all: parental attention and *guidance*, those caring enough to defy the herd of the cult and consistently apply consequences to unreasoning actions.

No boundaries? No growth. Harsh, emotionally charged words? No differentiation between those who love them and those who are disinterested servants of the State

A minor detail: age 7 was traditionally considered to be the age of reason in child development. A generality of course, dependent upon many factors. The punishment/reward system could then be shifted from the physical to the abstract, such as cookies, outside play time, friends over, etc. If you do this, you will lose that. If you do this, you will gain that

The bottom line is responsibility and accountability.

The parents take responsibility and demand accountability from their children or, if they are among the brainwashed worshippers in the "progressive" religion of the State, they let themselves off with easy pre-formulated rationalizations infused into their programming from too much mediaMatrix exposure, and produce unhappy egoists, ready to trade freedom for entitlements, for life.

the cult encourages the sleeping to make more fodder for the cult... (Shiver)

I had parenting (including corporal punishment up to age 6) that was so good I feel that I have yet to live up to the level of their gift but I did apply what I learned from them in my own parenting, with good results (say the kids themselves!)

It is always refreshing to read posts from the true heroes of any country: the good parents!


Anger? as a first reaction to get your a$$ moving, once you see through the Media Matrix and set yourself free from your lifelong mind control collar. Sustainable? not enough to screen your intention to be free from the Talosians, who can’t read primitive emotions but know what you watch on cable/sat, read on the Internet and eat. Our ultimate weapon is laughter and amused detachment at the folly of the would-be emperors. Fear mongers HATE it when the FEAR card doesn’t work. The humiliation of being seen as merely a naked ape is THEIR big fear. Laugh the bastards off the stage! Tell your friends that we can build a real civilization from the ruins of the totalitarian game!

HighLairEon  posted on  2010-06-06   17:01:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Eric Stratton (#0)

i cry fou on this article number one because marybeth decries government intrusion as by only the obama administration, and characterizes this as only a looming un threat instead of an already long existing tyranny in practice by the USSA for decades or longer. she doesnt mention child services. 'The UN/obama threat', as if bush didnt push it also? thus minimizing thr real problem as a partisan one. also, Mexico, according to this article is a signatory to this treaty, but they allow homeschooling and private school, in contrast to what she claimed it would do.

"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2010-06-06   17:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Artisan (#73)

i cry fou on this article number one because marybeth decries government intrusion as by only the obama administration,

If anyone noticed, most of the things the Obama administration has done are just continuances of the 5 prior administrations. It's like a snowball rolling down a 35 year long grade.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   17:09:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: HighLairEon (#72)

Most excellent post HairLairEon. And thank you for your kind words. : ) The bottom line IS accountability and responsibility.

Yes, I think you are correct. Reasoning begins at the ealier phase while direct questioning of authority begins in the tumultuous adolescent years. Good call on that. If the parenting job is done well, those adolescent years should be less tumultuous for both the parent and the child. Personally, I never experienced any terrible twos at all--no tantrums, no fits. I'm hoping I will be so luck when my girls hit middle school. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   17:20:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: abraxas, (#65)

So basically, the laws should be rewritten according to your personal definitions and beliefs. Yeah, that's a solution.

No, the laws should be written in accordance with the principles of the law and liberty.

That is a solution.

Parents are care takers. Hurting a person is not taking care of them EXCEPT IN A DEFENSIVE SITUATION. (and that there is why I ain't no stinkin "liberal").

Where's the reasoning in your position?

People have a right not to suffer physical pain at the hands of others. It's part of the right of life. Those people who are incapable of caring for themselves must be put into the care of others, but this does not disable their right not to be in physical pain because of others. Those who have custody of others do not have the right or power to impose pain on those in their custody. No one has that right or power. It is wrong to hurt others except for defense.

This applies to children, the retarded, those in a coma, the senile, the insane, prisoners, etc. Throughout history those who have had custody of other people have traditionally violated the right to physical safety. What you folks call "spanking" is a politically correct, white washed, watered down, softie version of the real deal. The fact that it is a weak facsimile of child abuse doesn't make it right or acceptable or moral or necessary. It is a fundamental violation of our natural God given rights to be hurt by another. Hurting a person in ones custody is a fundamental violation of the duties and responsibilities of a person who has chosen to undertake that role. That is why corporal punishment is always wrong and doubly so - it is a violation of the victims rights AND it is a violation of the duties and responsibilities of the CUSTODIAN.

I apologize for the all caps there (and again for my earlier posts) - but I wanted to emphasize that parents are custodians. They have duties, responsibilities, powers, etc. They do not own the child, the child does not belong to them as personal or private property would. They have a natural standard of how to take care of the child. A good starting point to define that standard would be the Golden Rule and a series of thoughts about it with relation to this issue.

"Treat others as you wish to be treated" is one way people put it. The reason why parents have custody of kids is because the kids can't even treat themselves as they wish to be treated let alone others. They step into the natural role of the child and fulfill it's functions until it is able to so, and they play a critical role in helping the child learn to fulfill it's functions. Those functions, as an adult who can treat oneself as one wishes and who can treat others in the same manner, generally do not include the use of physical pain as a disciplinary method. I've studied self-discipline for some time and am no expert - but I've never ever heard anyone suggest that it makes sense for adults to hit or strike themselves, or to wash out their mouths with soap. Now, people do do these things, but they are generally recognized as freaks and they usually self identify as such.

Now this might all seem very bizarre and irrelevant to you - but my point is that as a firm, steady, reliable, and true rule - civilized adult human beings do not use physical force to discipline themselves. As a general rule, they do not do so with other people either, the exceptions being largely when the state does so. Even most of the states/governments in the world do not use striking blows to cause pain even for punishing criminals. It is not accepted anymore to hit retarded people, or the insane, or the senile. There is still quite a bit of exceptions to the rule, but as a rule the use of offensive force is considered to be wrong with most of the exceptions being the enormous hypocrisy of the state.

Humanity has made much progress in some ways in becoming civilized. The growing disapproval of offensive force is important - one example of this disapproval is the standard that says it is wrong to use offensive force against those in your custody.

That's the reasoning in my position - It is fundamentally wrong to use corporal punishment on children because it is a violation of their rights and it is a violation of ones parental duty to safeguard and protect their rights.

I wouldn't favor prohibiting all physical force. I would be okay of course with defensive force, and I would even favor reasonable regulations for corporeal punishment, including that the punishment must be for a violation of a rule and that the rule and the violation and the punishment must be explained to the child. While I think your abuse of your kids is wrong, I don't think it should be illegal if sufficiently moderate. I would favor using social pressure - such as pointing out what you are doing is shockingly brutal, savage, barbaric and reminding you that corporal punishment is only the tiniest morsel of evil really means you should remember it's the first bite that really dooms you even if it's not nearly enough to kill you.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   17:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Patriot Henry (#76)

and I would even favor reasonable regulations for corporeal punishment, including that the punishment must be for a violation of a rule and that the rule and the violation and the punishment must be explained to the child.

And there you have it folks. Patriot Henry agrees. Spanking is good as long as the state can oversee.

Your pathetic and you have a whole lot to learn before you rear a child. Period.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-06   17:27:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Ragin1, all, Patriot Henry (#77)

I would even favor reasonable regulations

I noticed that word "reasonable" when it comes to regulating things that are none of the states business.

Think "reasonable" firearms / ammo regulations. Same wording from the same kind of people. That word "reasonable" is used intentionally to imply that those that disagree with the libtards idiocy are being unreasonable.

Spanking is not abuse. Tards like him equate it with the genuine abuse that does occur. It's guilt by association.

Henry, you blew your cover, you motherfucker.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-06   17:45:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: abraxas (#70)

I don't care what you think of my children, really. Get back to me when you have some parenting experience to contribute.

That's a convenient way to dismiss me and my arguments. Experience does not substitute for principles.

What are these "irrational reasons" you speak of? I recall my dad spanking me for riding on my horse chasing this cow that used to charge people. I deserved it and I never treated a cow like that again. How can you spin that into abuse?

If you made a similar stupid mistake today would you spank yourself or get someone else to hit you?

It's not spinning that into abuse. When your father treated you like a out of line dog that was abuse. It wasn't the only option, that wasn't the best option, and if you ever saw an adult taking that option with themselves or someone else you likely not approve.

That's your guess, eh? Why berate those of us who aren't anywhere near your best guess?

I berate you for what you have done, which is only a moderated form of those who go to a worse level of abuse. You might condemn the actions of others who beat their children more severely, but you condone the principle (or lack thereof).

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   17:45:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Patriot Henry (#76)

People have a right not to suffer physical pain at the hands of others. It's part of the right of life.

What you folks call "spanking" is a politically correct, white washed, watered down, softie version of the real deal.

While I think your abuse of your kids is wrong, I don't think it should be illegal if sufficiently moderate. I would favor using social pressure - such as pointing out what you are doing is shockingly brutal, savage, barbaric and reminding you that corporal punishment is only the tiniest morsel of evil really means you should remember it's the first bite that really dooms you even if it's not nearly enough to kill you.

but I wanted to emphasize that parents are custodians

Having actually gone through the pain of bringing life into this world, I find your "right not to suffer physical pain" comical.

In your world, Patriot Henry. You have a right to your opinion. But, no matter how you spin it, I'm not going to see it your way. In you mind, my father was a child abuser for whipping my butt with a belt when I deserved it.

I do believe that having provided food, shelter, love, affection and discipline to real children, that I have a better idea of what it means to be a custodian than you do. A custodian is more than the chief diaper changer and more than the head chef. It is my duty and my responsibility to teach my children to be responsible and accountable for their actions.

We live by the golden rule around here too. So, you are saying that when my eight year old smacks my six year old, I should solve the problem by punching her. No thanks. A time out and then a spanking if a change of behavior isn't forthcoming is more rational and effective.

Like I said the natural role of a child is to NEED and WANT boundaries, to learn through trial and error that actions DO have consequences.

I never have and never will abuse my children. You are being an out right liar for stating that. It's rather dispicapable.

Oh but wait, let me pack my bags for your pre-planned guilt trip. All Aboard!! Your social pressure is plastic--like a Nixon halloween mask. Corporal punishment can only be evil if the the person delivers it with malice and ill- intent. Spanking are given to redirect, never with malice. Frankly, I have a rule to never spank when I'm mad and I always discuss the progression of behavior leading to the consequence with my kids.

Weren't you going to tell me how my dad was abusive for spanking me? How he was shockingly brutal, savage, and barbaric? Wow, I guess we are just terrible, evil, aweful people........doomed for sure.

More melodrama please. I just can't seem to get enough and it's such an effecitive way to present your case, with an equally ineffective guilt trip on top.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   17:46:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Patriot Henry (#79)

That's a convenient way to dismiss me and my arguments. Experience does not substitute for principles.

that wasn't the best option, and if you ever saw an adult taking that option with themselves or someone else you likely not approve.

Considering that you have neither, I don't see where you get off dictating either to me. Your only argument is that you do not believe my children are civilized. A matter of which you know nothing about.

Obviously it WAS the best action because I NEVER did that again. : ) Of course, don't let that get in the way of the melodramatic fiction of abuse raging in your head.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if another adult gave you a spanking. Perhaps making up for a few that would have been beneficial in your childhood.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   17:51:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Ragin1 (#77)

And there you have it folks. Patriot Henry agrees. Spanking is good as long as the state can oversee.

Aas I am anti-statist who favors the permanent dissolution and prohibition of the state that really makes no sense. I stated nothing of the kind.

Your pathetic and you have a whole lot to learn before you rear a child. Period.

I most likely will not have children before I am 40 if I can help it as I wish to be well prepared. I highly doubt that in the next decade or so that I will discover the joys and wonders of using coercive acts of violence that use pain as a means of negative association in a Pavlovian behavioral science program designed to reduce them to the level of a well trained animal rather than developing them up to the level of a civilized human being. I might be wrong...but I doubt it.

If I do have kids, I plan on raising them to defend themselves from anyone who raises a hand or fist or weapon against them. If I ever were to try to spank my kid I would be overjoyed if they were to put me down on the ground in defense of themselves. Two wrongs don't make a right. Discipline does not come from using pain as a punishment - at least not for human beings. It comes from self-restraint and self-determination. The exercise of offensive violent force by other parties does not effectively teach those properties.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   17:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Patriot Henry (#82)

I ever were to try to spank my kid I would be overjoyed if they were to put me down on the ground in defense of themselves.

More than likely, if you ever tell Jr. that he can't hit his mom or his little sister, he'll kick your ass.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:04:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Patriot Henry (#28)

No, it's the fact that hitting kids with a board bigger than a baseball bat is permitted in Ohio for teachers even.

Huh huh. Come back with some links from the state of Ohio that explains that law, and then perhaps I'll believe you.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:07:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Patriot Henry (#23)

Is it okay to use electricity on a child? One can easily control the power so that it hurts no more and no less than a particular slap or spanking or belt.

Or how about making them kneel or maintain other painful physical positions?

And of course, using a large board to beat them is okay in many states, so you don't have any problem with that right?

You equate a slap on the hand with electro shock, and a slight slap on the bum with stress positions and whacking them over the head with a wooden board.

Did your parents control you with some sort of psychiatric drug, such as Ritalin perhaps? Something damaged your brain, that's for sure...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:10:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Patriot Henry (#23)

Situation 6. Everyday before dinner Momma spanks each child 25 times, for making her cook the dinner. Every single day until they are 18 or run away.

Do you fantasize about this stuff?

You are either coming up with this shit in a masturbatory fantasy, trying to get a "rise" out of people here, or you truly are one twisted fuck.

Again, you equate normal parental discipline involving a slap on the bum when absolutely needed with wanton psychotic abuse inflicted for fun.

Get some help.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:13:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Artisan (#73)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-06   18:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: abraxas (#80)

Having actually gone through the pain of bringing life into this world, I find your "right not to suffer physical pain" comical.

In your world, Patriot Henry. You have a right to your opinion. But, no matter how you spin it, I'm not going to see it your way. In you mind, my father was a child abuser for whipping my butt with a belt when I deserved it.

Kids don't deserve to be hit. "Liberals" are right about that one. Kids most certainly do deserve punishment - "conservatives" are right about that one.

As a rule no one deserves to be hit. The exceptions, the sole exceptions, the only exceptions are those people who get hit in defense.

It is not only in my mind that this is wrong - it is in the action itself.

Like I said the natural role of a child is to NEED and WANT boundaries, to learn through trial and error that actions DO have consequences.

The relative mildness of your "consequences" compared to those who use a heavier hand when they beat their kids does not excuse or justify the actions.

I do believe that having provided food, shelter, love, affection and discipline to real children, that I have a better idea of what it means to be a custodian than you do. A custodian is more than the chief diaper changer and more than the head chef. It is my duty and my responsibility to teach my children to be responsible and accountable for their actions.

All you have done is raised your kids according to tradition. You are the victim of a victim of a victim etc etc etc. It's an age old tradition to either "beat sense into your kids" or "beat your kids senseless" - but it's the same tradition. You failed in the same way others have always failed. There is no sound principle behind what you say. The responsibilities of a parent do not justify their using pain to obtain compliance. That's a terrible excuse for hitting your kids.

I never have and never will abuse my children. You are being an out right liar for stating that. It's rather dispicapable.

I said it based on principle. I stand by it.

I recognize the honorable intent, the moderation, the purposefulness, the effect, but I also recognize the principle, the action, and the unintended consequences.

Oh but wait, let me pack my bags for your pre-planned guilt trip. All Aboard!! Your social pressure is plastic--like a Nixon halloween mask. Corporal punishment can only be evil if the the person delivers it with malice and ill- intent. Spanking are given to redirect, never with malice. Frankly, I have a rule to never spank when I'm mad and I always discuss the progression of behavior leading to the consequence with my kids.

I've had this argument before with other people. They said the same thing. Malice is not necessary for evil. Nor is ill-intent. An evil action does not need to be caused by an evil thought or an evil feeling or an evil person. A good person with good feelings and good thoughts doing an evil thing might make it into the politically correct form of spanking you endorse, but it's still evil. The offensive use of violent force is wrong. Using violent offensive force as punishment is wrong. It's a fundamental violation of maintaining custody. It is a transgression onto the grounds that only God if anyone/anything is fit to walk on.

You can't do the wrong thing the right way. It is the wrong way. It can never be the right way.

Weren't you going to tell me how my dad was abusive for spanking me? How he was shockingly brutal, savage, and barbaric? Wow, I guess we are just terrible, evil, aweful people........doomed for sure.

Human beings are pretty dang backwards. Injustice is an institution.

More melodrama please. I just can't seem to get enough and it's such an effecitive way to present your case, with an equally ineffective guilt trip on top.

Guilt only works for those who have a conscience. It is possible to lose only part of your conscience. Those who favor hitting kids are at least partly morally blind. You can't feel guilty about something you can not see or understand. So long as you feel right in your actions you won't feel any guilt. As far as melodrama - this is part of the reason why the world is so messed up. It's not the biggest or most important part, not by a long shot, but it's still part of why we are still living in the Dark Ages.

I just can't seem to get enough and it's such an effective way to present your case,

I don't write for you. I do not expect you to change your views. Victims of the state who recite one of the standard liturgies defending the state rarely change their views.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   18:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: Patriot Henry (#22)

As I recall from your earlier post you do not abuse your kids - so why do you defend the "right" of others to do so?

People with functional grey matter realize the difference between a slap on the hand and "abuse". You apparently can't understand the distinction between the two.

How about retards and senile old folks who are in a citizens custody. Is it okay to hurt them if they get out of line?

There is a difference between an infant mind who CAN understand actions and consequences if taught correctly, and those who have lost the ability to do so. In those cases, physical or chemical restraint (in response to truly aggressive and violent behavior) is the only option. Confinement to "safe" rooms is required for people who would otherwise harm themselves or others.

No. However, if the danger is "fork in an outlet" and the lesson taught is "Papa gonna hurt you real good" then that is dangerous. Not only was the danger not addressed, a new danger was introduced.

A slap on the hand and a stern NO does not equate to "DANGER" or "Papa gonna hurt you real good". Electrocution IS a REAL danger, and may very well be lethal.

By the time you allow him to electocute himself, he will be dead, and YOU will be going to jail for criminal negligence. Perhaps we'll be reading about you in the paper, or seeing your face on TV sometime in the future.

From what I've seen most kids, if raised well, by the age of two can understand simple things such as "DANGER" in the tone of a parents voice and they can respond appropriately.

LOL!!!!

How many REAL kids have you been around, I'm not talking about the ones on TELEVISION.

If you have employees, you are responsible for the quality and quantity of work they output. If you have to resort to hitting them, you have failed.

Again, you equate a toddler's mind with that of college educated adults. Are you retarded?

They are different in terms of technique and degree - but they are same in principle if the purpose is to hurt the victim.

Wrong. The purpose of mild corporal punishment is to TEACH the child, and to HELP him or her. Abuse on the other hand is done purely to inflict pain, and to hurt that person.

A simple "NOOOO" in a voice filled with horror and fear and command should be enough to control most kids.

In addition - why would I be storing children and Draino in the same area?

The kid will either laugh at you or ignore you. It's obvious you've never been around toddlers.

As far as WHY the Drano would be in the same area, well, unless you put locks on all your cabinets and drawers, or unless you never clean your home and live in a pig sty, I'm sure SOMEWHERE in that house there might be something as dangerous as Drano, which a child can and WILL find eventually.

Child locks only work on really young kids, where the more clever older toddlers can figure out how to open them.

If you've never slapped his hand, he'll figure, what's the big deal, the most daddy will do is give me funny looks and make silly noises.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:39:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Patriot Henry (#88) (Edited)

Look, I'm not even going to bother reading that chapter. You are a liar. Retract your comment calling me a child abuser. Then, I will consider reading your post.

You think of yourself as SO original. The first non-parent to claim to all that you will NEVER spank or hit the hand of your child. Then, when the tike comes along you see the idiocy of your utiopian ideals.

Even Buddhist monks smack the other monks to with a stick to redirect them to pure conscienceness. I'm sure in your mind that abuse too. And, you can add that one to your examples of adults smacking other adults. See if anybody will buy into your theory. I'd go with the monk over you everytime.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   18:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: FormerLurker (#89)

A simple "NOOOO" in a voice filled with horror and fear and command should be enough to control most kids.

lol......yeah, no parent has EVER tried that. And it works SO well that all kids simply do what it asked.

What an original idea!! A simple NOOOOOOOO in a voice filled with horror and fear.....why didn't I think of that?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   18:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: abraxas (#91)

What an original idea!! A simple NOOOOOOOO in a voice filled with horror and fear.....why didn't I think of that?

Really, ole Pat should write a book on how to raise children, I'm sure it'd be a hit...

LOL


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   18:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: abraxas (#81)

Considering that you have neither, I don't see where you get off dictating either to me. Your only argument is that you do not believe my children are civilized. A matter of which you know nothing about.

I said that if your children believe and behave by a certain standard then they are not truly civilized. I do know something about civilization and what makes it - and proper beliefs and behavior are the foundation of the miracle of civilization. Real civilization is predicated and formed by cooperation. Barbarism including the sophisticated variety that poses as civilization is predicated on and formed by force.

Obviously it WAS the best action because I NEVER did that again. : ) Of course, don't let that get in the way of the melodramatic fiction of abuse raging in your head.

Wrong actions are often very effect, sometimes they are the most effective. So you are saying you would have done it again if he had merely explained your actions and their wrongness to you? Would you have done it again if you had also had to toil extra long and extra hard at some particularly undesirable task? That was the only way you would learn?

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if another adult gave you a spanking. Perhaps making up for a few that would have been beneficial in your childhood.

As a child all I had were my words (and man did adults not like that once I finally learned to speak and was able tell them exactly why they were wrong) - I got a bit more now to ensure that won't happen but my preferred defense is the same. Why would it have been beneficial for me to have been hit by adults as a child? For what offense would that have been? I was extremely obedient, which is why I was and am so angry by those people who insist on making up irrational rules and irrational punishments. The rules should make sense and they should be right. The same is true of punishments.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:02:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (94 - 132) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]