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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Source: townhall.com
URL Source: http://townhall.com/columnists/Mary ... r_issue_than_rights_of_a_child
Published: May 26, 2010
Author: Marybeth Hicks
Post Date: 2010-05-26 09:06:24 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 1340
Comments: 132

Threat to Parents' Rights a Bigger Issue than Rights of a Child
Marybeth Hicks
Wednesday, May 26, 2010

If you’re a parent, you’re probably too busy doing the day-to-day work of raising your children to worry about an international treaty that could actually undermine your authority over them.

But if you’ve ever insisted that your teenager drag himself out of bed on a Sunday morning to attend church with the family, or required him to find a part-time job to pay for the increase in your car insurance, or – heaven forbid – if you’ve ever spanked a young child for an act of willful disobedience, there are folks who’d like to override your parental judgment.

Folks like President Obama, in fact.

The issue of parental rights is at the heart of the ongoing debate over the US’s failure to ratify the UN’s Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). Mr. Obama thinks it’s a travesty that the US and Somalia – a country not known as a beacon of human rights – are the only two nations that haven’t ratified this treaty. Not only does he support its intrusions into our national sovereignty on behalf of children, he’s openly embarrassed to be on the short list with Somalia.

Up to now, it’s been a worried American homeschool community that most vocally opposes the CRC. That’s because the treaty clearly places responsibility for the education of children in the hands of the federal government. Such a mandate would certainly threaten the freedom of states to allow, and of parents to choose, homeschooling as an option to educate their children.

But it’s not just homeschooling parents who ought to be nervous about the CRC. We all should because the language of the treaty – which would supersede all American law other than the Constitution – radically changes the authority structure between parents, children and the state. In short, in line after line, it applies the standard of “the best interests of the child” to determine what’s permissible and what isn’t.

For example, the treaty creates "the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion." So if your child doesn’t want to go to a religious school, the law would favor his preference, not your desire to instill your faith.

It prohibits "arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy," which means you’d better not snoop in your son’s pockets while sorting the laundry. This could literally be illegal, and too bad if you find something to set off your parental alarm.

In fact, in Scotland, a CRC nation, a pamphlet for Scottish children explaining how they are helped by the treaty says, “In Scotland, the law recognises that your parents should normally be the people who care for you, if it’s the best thing for you.”

That’s very different from a provision that might say, “You have the right to the protection and care of your parents and can only be removed from your family if you are the victim of abuse or neglect.” The reason it doesn’t read this way is because that’s not what the CRC intends.

And who decides what’s “the best thing”? Take a guess.

It makes sense that the US stands nearly alone in refusing to ratify this treaty, since we live in the safest, most prosperous, most desirable country in which to be a child.

The CRC makes sense in places where girls can be sold into marriage at age 10, or where children are routinely victims of the sex trades, or of child labor abuse.

But in the US, the only logical reason to sign the CRC is to expand, through that new “international order” the president mentioned this past weekend, the role of the federal government into the daily lives and decisions of American parents and families.

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) has introduced S.R. 519, opposing ratification of the CRC. He hopes to find 34 co-sponsors and thereby signal to the president that there’s no need to send the treaty to the Senate for advice and consent since it wouldn’t pass. This is the end-run play; the game winner is a Parental Rights Amendment to the Constitution.

It’s a good time to call a Senator or two and encourage them to join in co-sponsoring Sen. DeMint’s resolution.

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#93. To: abraxas (#81)

Considering that you have neither, I don't see where you get off dictating either to me. Your only argument is that you do not believe my children are civilized. A matter of which you know nothing about.

I said that if your children believe and behave by a certain standard then they are not truly civilized. I do know something about civilization and what makes it - and proper beliefs and behavior are the foundation of the miracle of civilization. Real civilization is predicated and formed by cooperation. Barbarism including the sophisticated variety that poses as civilization is predicated on and formed by force.

Obviously it WAS the best action because I NEVER did that again. : ) Of course, don't let that get in the way of the melodramatic fiction of abuse raging in your head.

Wrong actions are often very effect, sometimes they are the most effective. So you are saying you would have done it again if he had merely explained your actions and their wrongness to you? Would you have done it again if you had also had to toil extra long and extra hard at some particularly undesirable task? That was the only way you would learn?

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if another adult gave you a spanking. Perhaps making up for a few that would have been beneficial in your childhood.

As a child all I had were my words (and man did adults not like that once I finally learned to speak and was able tell them exactly why they were wrong) - I got a bit more now to ensure that won't happen but my preferred defense is the same. Why would it have been beneficial for me to have been hit by adults as a child? For what offense would that have been? I was extremely obedient, which is why I was and am so angry by those people who insist on making up irrational rules and irrational punishments. The rules should make sense and they should be right. The same is true of punishments.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:02:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Patriot Henry (#93)

I'll pass on that chapter if there is not aknowledgment of the blatant lie you stated about me re: child abuse. Own up to your lie, Patriot Henry.

Will it help is I say "NOOOOOOOOO" in a voice filled with horror and fear? Do you think that will be effective? Sure doesn't work with tikes who would laugh at their father and keep on doing the same thing in hopes of getting the same silly response.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:06:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: FormerLurker (#89)

People with functional grey matter realize the difference between a slap on the hand and "abuse". You apparently can't understand the distinction between the two.

I can tell the difference between the degree, but I can find no fundamental distinction. Offensive violence is a wide range and scope of action.

As far as WHY the Drano would be in the same area, well, unless you put locks on all your cabinets and drawers, or unless you never clean your home and live in a pig sty, I'm sure SOMEWHERE in that house there might be something as dangerous as Drano, which a child can and WILL find eventually.

I aspire to be more organized and better prepared than that.

Child locks only work on really young kids, where the more clever older toddlers can figure out how to open them.

That's why you should get adult locks.

If you've never slapped his hand, he'll figure, what's the big deal, the most daddy will do is give me funny looks and make silly noises.

Kids aren't usually that dumb. No matter what their age or intelligence is - if you have to resort to violence to control their behavior - it's a sign of failure.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:06:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: FormerLurker (#89)

From what I've seen most kids, if raised well, by the age of two can understand simple things such as "DANGER" in the tone of a parents voice and they can respond appropriately.

LOL!!!!

Let me throw in my LOL as well.

DANGER!!!!! Perhaps it would be more effective with five exclamation points.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Patriot Henry (#95)

That's why you should get adult locks.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So let's see, you're going to install keyed locks on EVERY cabinet door and drawer in your home, eh? I'm sure your landlord will just LOVE that. If you're retarded enough to do it in a home you own, hey man, go for it.

Kids aren't usually that dumb. No matter what their age or intelligence is

Speaking from that void of experience you have on that, eh? You need to find real people who have real kids, not those you see on TV, and observe for a bit.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   19:18:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: abraxas (#90)

Look, I'm not even going to bother reading that chapter. You are a liar. Retract your comment calling me a child abuser. Then, I will consider reading your post.

So you are going to try to extort me by threatening to censor your view of critical opinions unless I retract one of those critical opinions.

As I said - it's the first bite that really dooms you.

You think of yourself as SO original. The first non-parent to claim to all that you will NEVER spank or hit the hand of your child. Then, when the tike comes along you see the idiocy of your utiopian ideals.

That's not what I said. I never ever said you should NEVER use force against a child - only never offensively.

Even Buddhist monks smack the other monks to with a stick to redirect them to pure conscienceness. I'm sure in your mind that abuse too. And, you can add that one to your examples of adults smacking other adults. See if anybody will buy into your theory. I'd go with the monk over you everytime.

I could write a thick book criticizing Buddhist monks if I were so inclined.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:20:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: abraxas (#96)

DANGER!!!!! Perhaps it would be more effective with five exclamation points.

I've already used a lot of exclamation points in my last post to Pat (hmmm, ever watch SNL?), so I'll try this on for size..

DANGER DANGER YOUNG CHILD DANGER DANGER


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   19:21:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: FormerLurker (#89)

A slap on the hand and a stern NO does not equate to "DANGER" or "Papa gonna hurt you real good". Electrocution IS a REAL danger, and may very well be lethal.

That would be defensive force. Probably preventable but sometimes necessary. On the other hand, using force as punishment is offensive force, and that is always wrong.

Again, you equate a toddler's mind with that of college educated adults. Are you retarded?

No, the college educated adults are retarded. That's why they are nearly at the level of a toddler.

There is a difference between an infant mind who CAN understand actions and consequences if taught correctly, and those who have lost the ability to do so. In those cases, physical or chemical restraint (in response to truly aggressive and violent behavior) is the only option. Confinement to "safe" rooms is required for people who would otherwise harm themselves or others. There is a difference between an infant mind who CAN understand actions and consequences if taught correctly, and those who have lost the ability to do so. In those cases, physical or chemical restraint (in response to truly aggressive and violent behavior) is the only option. Confinement to "safe" rooms is required for people who would otherwise harm themselves or others.

Pain ain't the only or the best way to learn or to teach.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:24:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: abraxas (#94)

I'll pass on that chapter if there is not aknowledgment of the blatant lie you stated about me re: child abuse. Own up to your lie, Patriot Henry.

You are a defender of child abuse who is now acting in a juvenile manner having been confronted with the ugly truth. Hitting kids in an offensive manner is abuse. Have you hit your kids to hurt them to coerce them? If so, you are a child abuser. Simple formula.

Will it help is I say "NOOOOOOOOO" in a voice filled with horror and fear? Do you think that will be effective? Sure doesn't work with tikes who would laugh at their father and keep on doing the same thing in hopes of getting the same silly response.

I'm sorry that your children are so stupid as to only be able to respond to brute force.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:27:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: FormerLurker (#99)

DANGER DANGER YOUNG CHILD DANGER DANGER

lol......might I suggest using black letters on bright yellow. Paste them all over the house, at any spot where DANGER!!!! might be lurking.

Great plan!! Kids love bright colors!! Maybe a big neon DRAINO sign where ever that might be placed in the household so that the little children stay away from there..........

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:30:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: FormerLurker, abraxas (#92)

Really, ole Pat should write a book on how to raise children, I'm sure it'd be a hit...

If I wanted to write a hit, I would write about why you should or should not hit your kid. If I wanted to actually write a book on the subject, I'd want to write about why you should and should not hit your kid. The nuance of this argument would be beyond both segments of the market. Having lost those who abuse their children by force and having lost those who abuse their children by the lack of discipline, I would only be able to sell to those who possess unusual amounts of reason and intellectual liberty, and the book would be sure to fail.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:31:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Patriot Henry (#101)

I'm sorry that your children are so stupid as to only be able to respond to brute force.

Egads, is insulting other parents' children also part of your stellar parenting plan?

It's not enough to spew lies about me, now you have to insult my children, eh? What a man. And you are telling me that I am acting in a "juvenile manner" to boot. Oh, the irony is so deep on this one I need some hip waders to crawl through your bovine excrement.

Sincerely, I hope you never have children. It's best for the gene pool and also best for the children. Actually, I pity you for the way that you act, the things that you say, the level of arrogance that makes you think you are an expect in an area you have NO experience with.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:36:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: abraxas, FormerLurker (#102)

lol......might I suggest using black letters on bright yellow. Paste them all over the house, at any spot where DANGER!!!! might be lurking.

Great plan!! Kids love bright colors!! Maybe a big neon DRAINO sign where ever that might be placed in the household so that the little children stay away from there..........

No, no, what you need is the biggest stick allowed by law so that you can "knock some sense" into the little children. Yep. That makes perfect sense. We'll hit the kids to keep them from being hurt.

That's why you keep kids away from guns by leaving razors open in front of the guns.

Very young children must always be kept in a safe closed space or under close supervision. Substituting proper precautions and judgment calls with hitting the child for your error is terrible parenting. Those old enough to comprehend the dangers and maintain control over their behavior may be punished in many ways other than violence should they fail to obey (not their parents), but the sensible standard dictated by the situation for their behavior.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:37:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: Patriot Henry (#103)

I would only be able to sell to those who possess unusual amounts of reason and intellectual liberty, and the book would be sure to fail.

LOL!!! You couldn't even write the book, let alone find an idiot dumb enough to publish it, let alone find a moron beyond your own family to purchase it.

Delusions of granduer on a GRAND scale. Oh, and the notion that you have come up with an original idea in a completely saturated market is even funnier. Your arrogance has no limits.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:39:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Patriot Henry (#105)

Very young children must always be kept in a safe closed space or under close supervision.

What an original idea!! Lock them up in a padded sell until they are at least three, eh? Be an armed guard for your child to assist with fear development and massive insecurity.

Does your idiocy have no limits?

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:42:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: abraxas (#104)

Egads, is insulting other parents' children also part of your stellar parenting plan?

It's not enough to spew lies about me, now you have to insult my children, eh? What a man. And you are telling me that I am acting in a "juvenile manner" to boot. Oh, the irony is so deep on this one I need some hip waders to crawl through your bovine excrement.

If the only thing that a person responds to is force, then there is an intellectual and or moral deficiency.

Sincerely, I hope you never have children. It's best for the gene pool and also best for the children. Actually, I pity you for the way that you act, the things that you say, the level of arrogance that makes you think you are an expect in an area you have NO experience with.

I am no expert. I am a judge, a critic, a prophet. Hitting kids is wrong. I really doubt your kids were so dull as only to respond to force. I'm sure the real cause was your lack of knowledge of other more viable options.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: Patriot Henry (#101)

I'm sorry that your children are so stupid as to only be able to respond to brute force.

Your's probably won't live long enough to get to that point.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   19:44:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: abraxas (#107)

What an original idea!! Lock them up in a padded sell until they are at least three, eh? Be an armed guard for your child to assist with fear development and massive insecurity.

Maybe he could hire some cops to watch over them while he sleeps, in case they decide to get up in the middle of the night.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   19:45:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Patriot Henry (#103)

If I wanted to write a hit, I would write about why you should or should not hit your kid. If I wanted to actually write a book on the subject, I'd want to write about why you should and should not hit your kid. The nuance of this argument would be beyond both segments of the market.

Well Pat, I suggest you devote some time to that, go ahead and give it shot.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-06-06   19:47:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Patriot Henry (#108)

I am no expert. I am a judge, a critic, a prophet.

Let me be the first to award you with the understatement of the day!

Now, do the right thing for the gene pool and keep your sperm at a safe distance from any and all vaginas. I'm sure that won't be a difficult task as women are running in the other direction in droves.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:48:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: abraxas (#106)

LOL!!! You couldn't even write the book, let alone find an idiot dumb enough to publish it, let alone find a moron beyond your own family to purchase it.

Delusions of granduer on a GRAND scale. Oh, and the notion that you have come up with an original idea in a completely saturated market is even funnier. Your arrogance has no limits.

Could you please share a list of books that defend defensive parental force and oppose offensive parental force? I think I've seen some discussion of the topic in various books but I can't even recall more than a paragraph or two from books and I've only occasionally the rare libertarian article.

I never claimed to come with an original idea. Libertarianism is not a new philosophy.

Nor is it a delusion of grandeur to postulate writing a book. Not only have the least competent do so, with the advent of Nanowrimo the masses of the least competent are doing so.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:50:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: FormerLurker (#110)

Maybe he could hire some cops to watch over them while he sleeps, in case they decide to get up in the middle of the night.

Good idea, maybe a home SWAT team would be in order.

Maybe he could get some help from the DOD with creating an adequate BLOCKADE as DANGERS are lurking every where.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:50:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: abraxas, formerlurker (#107)

What an original idea!! Lock them up in a padded sell until they are at least three, eh? Be an armed guard for your child to assist with fear development and massive insecurity.

I don't think it is necessary to lock them up. I should hope that I am able to outsmart the kids under 5 or 6. If after that they outsmart me I don't think it will create a danger, it would be them keeping me from manufacturing one.

Does your idiocy have no limits?

My idiocy that says if one has to hit kids under the age of 3 because you failed to keep them safe then it's your own stupid fault? Yep - where the force is defensive, that's one limit, and where the need for force would not be prevented by reasonable precaution, that's another limit.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   19:55:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: Patriot Henry (#113)

yada, yada, yada

Sheesh, now I need to be your research assistant. The entire Montasori philosophy is based on the concept of rearing the child in a defensive manner, wherein the child dicates to the parent, if only the child whisperer can hear and obey the commands. In fact, there is a book entitle The Child Whisperer. It sounds really great--in theory, with little practicle applicability.

I said it was a delusion of grandeur for you to write a book about children, not to write a book. Some topics in your sphere of expertise would be: How to Make No Sense or How to Insult Parents or How to be Unoriginal.

Don't confuse Libertarianism with idiocy.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   19:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Patriot Henry, all (#115)

I should hope that I am able to outsmart the kids under 5 or 6.

Who can find a parent that hasn't had a toddler wander out of sight? Oh, but Partiot Henry is smarter than ALL parents have EVER been and this will NEVER happen on his watch......lol.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   20:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: FormerLurker, abraxas (#111)

Well Pat, I suggest you devote some time to that, go ahead and give it shot.

Thanks for your support. I will probably write an essay at some point on the subject. I would like to also of course skewer the other side, your opponents, the zero tolerance for parental force, rules, punishments, etc.

Albert Jay Nock wrote about the difference between training and education. The former he said sounded like something done to an animal, which is very apt. Corporal punishment sounds like something an animal trainer would do.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   20:09:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: abraxas (#117)

Who can find a parent that hasn't had a toddler wander out of sight? Oh, but Partiot Henry is smarter than ALL parents have EVER been and this will NEVER happen on his watch......lol.

And if the toddler escapes me then I should impose pain upon it?

No thank you.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   20:11:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: abraxas, FormerLurker (#114)

Good idea, maybe a home SWAT team would be in order.

I wouldn't ever call the cops for a family member. My mother called the cops on me once. I had flipped out, but it was after she made an insane disciplinary call (I could not exercise my privileges as agreed upon after meeting all of the requirements agreed upon for the sole reason of it being her discretionary decision) after about 14 years of such insanity.

That's why I am arguing with y'all. You make a slight error in judgment. That's wrong, it's abuse, but it's the abuse you don't do but help to happen that I am most opposed to. It's like teaching kids that it's okay to lie a little bit, or steal a little bit. I refuse to accept compromise the principles of law and liberty because of tradition or popularity. A small compromise that isn't all that wrong compared to much worse offenses helps encourage those much worse offenses.

It's also very interesting that you crack jokes about me needing cops or a SWAT team. The iron fist of the state is the preeminent domestic example of the institution of offensive violent force.

Maybe he could get some help from the DOD with creating an adequate BLOCKADE as DANGERS are lurking every where.

Or I could educate the kids on how to be safe and smart.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   20:23:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: abraxas, FormerLurker, Eric Stratton, Artisan, Ragin1 (#117) (Edited)

At this point, the poster "acting" stuck in dementia is appearing to be more than a garden-variety ego-surfer, actually a shill, a troll, a time-waster, engaging the intelligent posters showing compassion for his feigned pathetic ignorance in order to deflect focus away from more weighty matters, like cutting the crap in Israel's latest propaganda, the oil volcano and the imminent deliberate collapse of the world's economic system.

The moniker may be a clue; the "Patrick Henry" moniker was already taken by the law-knowledgeable person so the fallback was to Patriot, the last refuge of a scoundrel! Also, an homage to the misleadingly named "Patriot Act", whose more apt name would have been the "Traitor Act".

See, we can all riff, but does it ring true? 8=>

Besides the lack of common manners, the display of petulance and the personal attacks on those attempting to reach "him" with reason are enough of a smoking ass to reveal the smoke-blowing agenda.

In any case, reasoned discourse with a dedicated ego-surfer content to live inside the ass of the nanny state, is a waste of valuable resources!


Anger? as a first reaction to get your a$$ moving, once you see through the Media Matrix and set yourself free from your lifelong mind control collar. Sustainable? not enough to screen your intention to be free from the Talosians, who can’t read primitive emotions but know what you watch on cable/sat, read on the Internet and eat. Our ultimate weapon is laughter and amused detachment at the folly of the would-be emperors. Fear mongers HATE it when the FEAR card doesn’t work. The humiliation of being seen as merely a naked ape is THEIR big fear. Laugh the bastards off the stage! Tell your friends that we can build a real civilization from the ruins of the totalitarian game!

HighLairEon  posted on  2010-06-06   21:06:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: HighLairEon (#121)

At this point, the poster "acting" stuck in dementia is appearing to be more than a garden-variety ego-surfer, actually a shill, a troll, a time-waster, engaging the intelligent posters showing compassion for his feigned pathetic ignorance in order to deflect focus away from more weighty matters, like cutting the crap in Israel's latest propaganda, the oil volcano and the imminent deliberate collapse of the world's economic system.

The barbarism rampant in parenting techniques, both traditional and modern, is connected directly to those issues. All part of the same human system of society.

The moniker may be a clue; the "Patrick Henry" moniker was already taken by the law-knowledgeable person so the fallback was to Patriot, the last refuge of a scoundrel! Also, an homage to the misleadingly named "Patriot Act", whose more apt name would have been the "Traitor Act".

It's a play on words. It's also a test of reading comprehension - many people even after many posts interacting with me don't realize I am not Patrick Henry.

See, we can all riff, but does it ring true?

In any case, reasoned discourse with a dedicated ego-surfer content to live inside the ass of the nanny state, is a waste of valuable resources!

Of course, ignore the one questioning the infant beneath your boot and the little one shrieking under your raised hand. Was there ever any other option?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   21:20:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: FormerLurker (#83)

More than likely, if you ever tell Jr. that he can't hit his mom or his little sister, he'll kick your ass.

I should hope to not have family members who are unable to defend themselves.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-06   21:29:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: Patriot Henry (#120) (Edited)

My mother called the cops on me once

That's why I am arguing with y'all.

Quit making the lot of us suffer for mommy's "mistakes"....get over it already. How long are you going to carry that "cross" and take your venom out on all other parents who WEREN'T YOUR MEAN OL' MOMMY?

Deal with your friggin' baggage already. Man up for crying out loud.

We don't do what your mommy did to you. Never have. Never will. So enough with your "victim mentality" spew. Egads, you should be ashamed of yourself. I knew a mommy complex was at the heart of your idiotic diatribe. You ooze mommy complex, pal. Luckily, women can spot that sort of thing a mile away and we don't have to worry at all about you have any sex....whew!!

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-06   22:44:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: abraxas (#124)

Quit making the lot of us suffer for mommy's "mistakes"....get over it already. How long are you going to carry that "cross" and take your venom out on all other parents who WEREN'T YOUR MEAN OL' MOMMY?

Despite all of my mothers mistakes, at least she never inflicted physcial pain on me. She never hit me, never kicked me, never whipped me, and never hurt me.

Can you say the same about your parents or yourself? Apparently not.

Deal with your friggin' baggage already. Man up for crying out loud.

I did. Apparently since I didn't choose to do so by hurting a child that is not acceptable. Should I have kids to beat them so that I can be just like you and your twisted cult of child abusers?

We don't do what your mommy did to you. Never have. Never will. So enough with your "victim mentality" spew. Egads, you should be ashamed of yourself. I knew a mommy complex was at the heart of your idiotic diatribe. You ooze mommy complex, pal. Luckily, women can spot that sort of thing a mile away and we don't have to worry at all about you have any sex....whew!!

That's some standard lousy psychology. You can get a bunch of people with PhDs from Stanford, Yale, Harvard to agree with you - but all it is a bunch of certified loony tunes bullshit from incompetents and frauds.

I learned from my mothers mistakes. The lesson she taught me was that adults and parents are not the source of authority. God is. You disagree with that obviously when you play God and become the Devil and hurt your own offspring. Nothing I can say will ever hurt you nor will it save you from being hurt by your own actions. You have failed your own kids, yourself, your family, and your God. The only excuse you could possibly cling to is that you hit your kids because your daddy beat you - lame excuse for your moral and parental failings.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-07   17:02:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: Patriot Henry (#125)

Certified loon. Period. Have you read the repercussions of not following God's word?

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-07   17:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: HighLairEon (#121)

The moniker may be a clue; the "Patrick Henry" moniker was already taken by the law-knowledgeable person so the fallback was to Patriot,

Damn. This idiot had me. I initially posted thinking it was him/her. Great catch.

Ragin1  posted on  2010-06-07   18:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: Patriot Henry (#125)

Partiot Henry

It is your OWN mother whom you believe to be a child abuser. Go take it up with her, not people you do not even know on the internet. It is obvious when you feel the need to "unload" your Mean Ol' Mommy stories and call others child abusers, that you, in fact, have NOT dealt with it.

In case you failed to grasp my post. I don't have any problem with my parents. I am grateful for them.....even the spankings!! Imagine that. I know, again this goes against your projected abuse fantasy, but this is the truth.

Did mommy teach you how to plan a guilt trip, too? Perhaps that sort of manipulation worked on you, but it isn't working on me. lol

In case you haven't noticed, YOU are the only one making excuses along this thread. More victim mentatlity I suspect. Now run along and call your own Mommy and tell her all the terrible things she did that you are now compelled to share with strangers on the internet. It will be much more effective than projecting onto strangers.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-07   18:20:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Ragin1, patriot henry (#126)

Do you see the irony of it all?

Those of us who had parents who provided boundaries and disciple, including a deserved spanking now and again, actually love, respect and are grateful for our parents. While ol' Patriot Henry never had a spanking in his life but repays his mother with disrespect and airs her dirty laundry to dry on the internet while projecting fantasies about child abuse on others.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-07   18:33:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Ragin1 (#126)

Certified loon. Period. Have you read the repercussions of not following God's word?

Ayuh. Those who hurt their own kids shall find out a bit more about those repercussions.

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-09   10:38:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: abraxas (#128)

It is your OWN mother whom you believe to be a child abuser. Go take it up with her, not people you do not even know on the internet. It is obvious when you feel the need to "unload" your Mean Ol' Mommy stories and call others child abusers, that you, in fact, have NOT dealt with it.

I have dealt with it. I suppose I should not talk to others about the dangers of the state since the state was 10000 times worse than my mother in terms of abusing me as a child?

In case you failed to grasp my post. I don't have any problem with my parents. I am grateful for them.....even the spankings!! Imagine that. I know, again this goes against your projected abuse fantasy, but this is the truth.

Stockholm syndrome. That's what that is. You identify with those who victimize you.

Did mommy teach you how to plan a guilt trip, too? Perhaps that sort of manipulation worked on you, but it isn't working on me. lol

Guilt trips require two things: a conscience and intellectual awareness of the wrong. You have the former but clearly lack the latter.

In case you haven't noticed, YOU are the only one making excuses along this thread. More victim mentatlity I suspect. Now run along and call your own Mommy and tell her all the terrible things she did that you are now compelled to share with strangers on the internet. It will be much more effective than projecting onto strangers.

Interesting take. Since I had life experiences that I learned from and resolved in the past much in the manner you prescribe, I should forget the lessons learned and begin again where I was as a child? Interesting take on it. Oh, and I am "projecting" my mothers emotional abuse by somehow forcing you to state from your user account that you hurt your kids? That's some mighty powerful projection!

I called my mother on her insanity when I was a child. I would explain why she was illogical, irrational, and wrong. She didn't like that anymore than you do. Sure seems people don't like it when they do wrong and someone else points it out.

A friend of mine, a 16 year genius, called out her moronic teacher the other day, pointing out the idiocy of the work and the system. The teacher kicked her out. Apparently she should have done 2 days worth of work in a year, and then repeated that same work four years in a row, all without thought or complaint. The same young lady also has very poor relations with her father, is bright but not too far from the average intelligence level. Much of the reason for this it turns out is that he would use corporal punishment on her when she was young. Apparently corporeal punishment doesn't work very well on unusually intelligent people. It seems to work okay on the ordinary folks. The real problem is that so many ordinary people have extraordinary kids and these parents lack any better means of discipline.

Of course, you probably don't see any problem with parents using force on their children who at a young age are able to comprehend the logical fallacies behind the rules and the punishment, eh? Nothing wrong with elders hurting their intellectual betters?

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-09   10:55:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: abraxas (#129)

Those of us who had parents who provided boundaries and disciple, including a deserved spanking now and again, actually love, respect and are grateful for our parents. While ol' Patriot Henry never had a spanking in his life but repays his mother with disrespect and airs her dirty laundry to dry on the internet while projecting fantasies about child abuse on others.

If you failed to notice this is an anonymous forum.

I learned from the mistakes of my parents. Thus I have no shame in discussing them.

Also, why would I have received a spanking? I followed all of the rules. I suppose my mother should have made up one of her irrational decisions contradicting all previous rules and then used physical violence to assault me? Is that what you are advocating in favor of?

That's what I'm advocating against.

I am not projecting fantasies. I was referring to the posts you wrote and published in the public domain. There is a substantial amount of difference between a poster referring to statements that exist solely within their own heads or posts and a poster referring to statements made by others in their posts.

And again, why don't you explain exactly what excuse should have been contrived to hurt me? Maybe you could write a pamphlet for parents who have extremely obedient children i.e. "How to frame your kids so you can smack them one, for their own good".

Patriot Henry  posted on  2010-06-09   11:02:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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