[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Elon Musk Met With Iran's UN Ambassador

Schumer Moves to Silence Criticism of Israel as Hate Speech With 'Antisemitism Awareness Act'

Historic English town that inspired Charles Dickens’ best stories

RFK Jr drives pharma to 15-year low

COL. Douglas Macgregor : What happen at the secret meeting between Israel and Russia?

The CDC Planned COVID Quarantine Concentration Camps Nationwide

NASA staff beg Elon Musk to 'clean house' after agency spent millions of Americans' money on DEI agenda

Sanctuaries Freed 22,000 Criminal Aliens Sought by ICE Under Biden

"Human Please die": Chatbot responds with threatening message

Antifa Groups Recruiting, Organizing And Mobilizing For Violence During Donald Trump's Second Term In Office

Joe Biden's "WTH" Moment of the Day with President of Peru.....

Germany: Police Raid Pensioner's House, Drag Him To Court After He Retweets Meme Calling Green Minister "Idiot"

Israel's Most Advanced Tank Shredded To Pieces In Gaza

Chinese Killer Robo Dog

Israeli Officials Belatedly Claim Secret Nuclear Site Destroyed In Last Month's Iran Strikes

Lake County California Has Counted Just 30 Percent of Votes – Ten Days After Polls Closed!

Real Monetary Reform

More Young Men Are Now Religious Than Women In The US

0,000+ online influencers, journalists, drive-by media, TV stars and writers work for State Department

"Why Are We Hiding It From The Public?" - Five Takeaways From Congressional UFO Hearing

Food Additives Exposed: What Lies Beneath America's Food Supply

Scott Ritter: Hezbollah OBLITERATES IDF, Netanyahu in deep legal trouble

Vivek Ramaswamy says he and Elon Musk are set up for 'mass deportations' of millions of 'unelected bureaucrats'

Evidence Points to Voter Fraud in 2024 Wisconsin Senate Race

Rickards: Your Trump Investment Guide

Pentagon 'Shocked' By Houthi Arsenal, Sophistication Is 'Getting Scary'

Cancer Starves When You Eat These Surprising Foods | Dr. William Li

Megyn Kelly Gets Fiery About Trump's Choice of Matt Gaetz for Attorney General

Over 100 leftist groups organize coalition to rebuild morale and resist MAGA after Trump win

Mainstream Media Cries Foul Over Musk Meeting With Iran Ambassador...On Peace


Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Questions raised about 'Ardi' as man's ancestor
Source: Comcast
URL Source: http://www.comcast.net/articles/new ... 0100527/US.SCI.Human.Ancestor/
Published: May 29, 2010
Author: MALCOLM RITTER, AP
Post Date: 2010-05-29 02:07:05 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 171
Comments: 9

Questions raised about 'Ardi' as man's ancestor

By MALCOLM RITTER, AP

NEW YORK — Last fall, a fossil skeleton named "Ardi" shook up the field of human evolution. Now, some scientists are raising doubts about what exactly the creature from Ethiopia was and what kind of landscape it inhabited.

New critiques question whether Ardi really belongs on the human branch of the evolutionary tree, and whether it really lived in woodlands. That second question has implications for theories about what kind of environment spurred early human evolution.

The new work is being published by the journal Science, which last year declared the original presentation of the 4.4 million-year-old fossil to be the magazine's breakthrough of the year.

Ardi, short for Ardipithecus ramidus, is a million years older than the famous "Lucy" fossil. Last October, it was hailed as a window on early human evolution.

Researchers concluded that "Ardi" walked upright rather than on its knuckles like chimps, for example, and that it lived in woodlands rather than open grasslands. It didn't look much like today's chimps, our closest living relatives, even though it was closer than Lucy to the common ancestor of humans and chimps.

Such questioning isn't unusual; big scientific discoveries are typically greeted that way. Until more scientists can study the fossil and other work can be done, broad consensus may be elusive. The 2003 discovery of diminutive fossil "hobbits" in Indonesia, for example, has spurred a long-running debate about whether the hobbits were a separate species or not.

Tim White of the University of California, Berkeley, one of the scientists who described Ardi last year in Science, said he isn't surprised by this week's debate.

"It was completely expected," he said. "Any time you have something that is as different as Ardi, you're probably going to have it."

Esteban Sarmiento of the Human Evolution Foundation in East Brunswick, N.J., wrote in the new analysis that he's not convinced Ardi belongs on the evolutionary tree branch leading to modern humans.

Instead, he said in an interview, he thinks it came along earlier, before that human branch split off from the ancestors of chimps and gorillas.

The specific anatomical features of teeth, the skull and elsewhere that the researchers cited just don't make a convincing case for membership on the human branch, he argued. Some, like certain features in the wrist and where the lower jaw connects to the skull, indicate instead that Ardi arose before humans split off from African apes, he said.

In a written rebuttal in Science and in a telephone interview, White disagreed with Sarmiento's conclusion. "The evidence is very clear that in Ardipithecus, there are characteristics shared only by later hominids ... and humans," White said.

If Ardi were really ancestral to chimps, certain features of its teeth, pelvis, and skull would have had to later evolve back to their more ape-like conditions, an "evolutionary reversal that's highly unlikely," White said in an interview.

Two other experts, however, said in interviews that they think it's too early to tell where Ardi fits on the evolutionary tree.

Will Harcourt-Smith, a research associate at the American Museum of Natural History and member of the anthropology department at Lehman College in New York, said he could not say whether Sarmiento was right or wrong.

"It's early days" in the analysis of Ardi, he said. "Until there is a more complete description of the skeleton, one has to be cautious about interpreting the initial analyses one way or another... I still think it's open season."

Harcourt-Smith said he did disagree with Sarmiento's assertion that Ardi was probably too old to belong to the human branch of the evolutionary tree.

Rick Potts, head of the human origins program at the Smithsonian Institution's Natural History Museum, said Ardi is known chiefly from just one site. And it lived during a dimly understood period of evolution when there might have been "a lot of experimentation," he said.

Potts said that makes it hard to draw conclusions about how the species relates to Lucy and modern humans.

"I think it's just too soon to tell exactly where it stands in relationship to the branching point of humans from other African apes," he said.

The second critique focuses on Ardi's environment. Last year's analysis said it was predominantly a woodland setting. So that argued against the "savanna hypothesis," the idea that early human ancestors started to walk upright because they lived on grassy plains and savannas.

In this week's critique, geochemist Thure Cerling of the University of Utah and other scientists said their reading of the evidence shows Ardi roamed in a savanna with no more than 25 percent covered by a woody canopy. So they disagreed with last year's emphasis on the leafy setting.

The critique focused on evidence like analysis of ancient soils, tooth enamel from animals found at the site and tiny silica grains found in plants.

In a published rebuttal and the interview, White agreed that Ardi's environment included grasslands but said the totality of the evidence shows Ardi preferred living in its wooded areas instead.

For example, the skeleton shows adaptations for climbing and "it wasn't climbing grass," he said. And animals found with Ardi's remains are mostly woodland creatures like leaf-eating monkeys, he said.

Potts said he thinks White is right about the environment of the site in dispute. But again, he said, that's just one site, and not enough for drawing conclusions about the general environmental conditions of early human evolution — if indeed White is also right about Ardi's place on the family tree.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: farmfriend (#0)

The fatal flaw with radioactive dating methods

creation.com/radioactive-dating-fatal-flaw

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2010-05-29   2:25:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: farmfriend (#0) (Edited)

Harcourt-Smith said he did disagree with Sarmiento's assertion that Ardi was probably too old to belong to the human branch of the evolutionary tree.

Therein lies the rub. Notice two things in this statement:

"too old" - paleoanthropologists NEED their skeletal remains and etc. to fit their established time line for human "evolution".

So, the constraint is not a scientific one but a prejudgement i.e., if the evidence doesn't fit the theory then attack the evidence.

The problem is that there is a significant body of evidence that anatomically modern man virtually identical to human form today was already kicking around 4.4 million years ago. In fact there are documented finds in strata dating back to the Miocene which began 25 million years ago and ran till about 5 million years ago. There are even a few finds older than that.* The book "Forbidden Archaeology" documents many such finds that well predate the academic timeline. The problem with them, and the reason they are rejected out of hand, is that they do not fit the Darwinian Evolutionary Model and that Model is held to be more important that what the evidence dictates. Careers have been ruined by daring to find evidence that contradicts the "Official Line".

*One such anomalous find was in a gold mine in California in Tuolumne County's Table Mountain. Based on the strata in which the skeletal remains, which were anatomically modern, were found, and the accompanying artifacts which showed a high level of development, the gravels, under the mountain cap, dated anywhere in the range of 9 to 55 million years old. The finds were documented by J.D. Whitney the State Geologist, but of course were rejected by the establishment as being to old to be acceptable "and there had to be another explanation".

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-05-29   2:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Original_Intent (#2) (Edited)

Harcourt-Smith said he did disagree with Sarmiento's assertion that Ardi was probably too old to belong to the human branch of the evolutionary tree.

Therein lies the rub. Notice two things in this statement:

"too old" - paleoanthropologists NEED their skeletal remains and etc. to fit their established time line for human "evolution".

So, the constraint is not a scientific one but a prejudgement i.e., if the evidence doesn't fit the theory then attack the evidence.

LOL

Good eye, OI.


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-05-29   2:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Original_Intent (#2)

Seems to happen in a lot of scientific fields.


"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831

farmfriend  posted on  2010-05-29   3:09:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: farmfriend (#0)

All of the bones found of our supposed ancestors woul fix in a cardbox box. And boy, have a lot of explanations been spun out of that.

"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their constitution or confederation, not from want of honor and virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." - John Adams.

Turtle  posted on  2010-05-29   13:16:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Turtle, Original_Intent (#5)

And boy, have a lot of explanations been spun out of that.

This is true but I also agree with O_I that many discoveries are discounted because they don't fit into the established box. Take the age of the Sphinx just as one instance. Geologic evidence does not fit with established Egyptology explanations of its existence.


"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831

farmfriend  posted on  2010-05-29   13:38:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: farmfriend (#0)

My blood type is Type-O negative. Meaning, I have no Rhesus gene in my blood. I am not descended from apes. Never have been.

It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-05-29   13:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent, christine, earthchild, SonofLiberty, bush_is_a_moonie, TwentyTwelve, Dakmar, James Deffenbach, gengis gandhi, Arator, Horse, randge, wudidiz, ada, scrapper2, farmfriend, all (#2) (Edited)

Harcourt-Smith said he did disagree with Sarmiento's assertion that Ardi was probably too old to belong to the human branch of the evolutionary tree.

Original_Intent:
Therein lies the rub. Notice two things in this statement:

"too old" - paleoanthropologists NEED their skeletal remains and etc. to fit their established time line for human "evolution".

So, the constraint is not a scientific one but a prejudgement i.e., if the evidence doesn't fit the theory then attack the evidence.

Bingo! Laser targeting successful! Nail on head.

Science as dogma, as politically-correct human knowledge is an area of analysis we both find rich in targets. If I may add my 50 cents (inflated currency thanks to the Fed):


What is hilarious to me is the smug delusion worn like a badge of conformity by the followers of the cult of the State, the delusion that graduation from the cult of religious dogma to the cult of scientific dogma is evidence of their intelligence and understanding, rather than merely a more sophisticated form of mindless conformity!

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”

Not science, the golden child of reason but Big Science, the bastard step-child of the State and the status quo, taking over the role of bastard step-child from the Church, creating the illusion of progress to keep the slaves “down on the farm”, content in their national prisons.

Not the pure exploration into the wonder of the Universe but the deadly inertia of the highly political, socially corrupted, money-dominated game of limiting that exploration to conceptual channels that serve the agendas of the corporate oligarchic masters.

Just as the mind-locked are fooled by the child-comforting notion that the mediaMatrix would bring any dark and evil design to our attention, if any really existed, so are the “sophisticated” and oh-so-hip followers of the god of State, the cult of Civilization entranced by the idea that science is pure and non-political and that technology could not possibly be suppressed!

Under the constant pressure of the mediaMatrix, our minds become molded into the permanent delusion that we can trust the new high priests, the scientific experts funded by the pure institutions of the Corporate-Government-Academic triumvirate. The old priests took our money, lied to us for their own gains, and controlled our minds with authoritative-sounding knowledge but the new priests would never do that! They’re not called priests anymore anyway, they’re called experts.

[Expert: X is a mathematical term meaning unknown. Spurt is a drip under pressure. So an expert is an unknown drip under pressure]

The delusion that since our herd has created cat-toy technologies with which we can wile away our leisure time, free in the entranced prison of our own minds, that means that each member of the herd is an equal participant in the cult.

Thinks Everyman: “If I was interested, I could gain access to any area and any level of depth in this smorgasbord of information simply by surfing the net and for more depth, going to a prestigious university. I would not be required to swear allegiance to any social order, nor make commitments to societies of secrets, nor compromise or corrupt my integrity, like the people in the past had to do. But I am more interested in a specialization of my own, the pursuit of minimalism: maximum self-indulgence expending the least possible amount of critical and creative thinking”.

We are assured by the mind control programming that there are smart, dedicated and caring people watching our backs, that make up for our ignorance with their altruistic diligence. We are a team, progressing together toward a brighter future… Ooops! Now the script says that we are progressing toward a bright future for only 500 million of us so we better find someone powerful to serve who can get us a ticket to ride the dragon underground, while Earth recovers from her rape.

We are encouraged to be intellectually lazy, to use pre-framed word symbols to wallpaper over complexity, and pre-approved labels to divide the people and ideas into simple to swallow sound bites, marking our territory with programmed contempt for anything complex, creating a tight-fitting space suit which insulates us from the unlimited Universe and makes us increasingly aware only of our own fear-drenched sweat. We connect to other people mainly through virtual media, communication at arms-length satisfying our need for human contact but only superficially. I text, therefore I am.

We immerse ourselves in recorded music, at low resolution, cheating our beings of the four-dimensional feast of live music. We have high resolution eye candy machines (TV) which fall far short of holographic reality and meanwhile, our senses (and our neurons) atrophy on a diet devoid of fractal complexity.

Even if we have a sex partner with which to dive into the Real, ignorance about kundalini and its ways creates a feeling of alienation over time, leaving us both feeling that something is missing and driving us on to new partners with which to trot out our dance routines, mistaking temporary novelty for the lost mystery.

When we were children, the world and our own potential felt limitless. We had no problem diving completely into every detail of the moment, swimming in the delicious details and breaching with orgiastic delight when we were full to bursting.

Once the brain slowed its tremendous growth, our skulls began to harden and expectations by the adult zombies around us pressed us down, we began to over-simplify, to substitute abstraction for facts, concepts for intimate knowledge, intellectual satisfaction for real feelings. As powerful as abstraction is in functioning in a complex world, it was never intended to be our main diet.

Sitting on the sidelines of our lives watching the flow of the game from the comfort of our stable, fixed perception, making bets and feeling the events taking place second-hand, by the pain or pleasure of our judgment, we become adults, easily assimilated into the machine, even if our emotional and intellectual growth is stunted at an infantile level!

For an example of the dumb-ing down of details, take Occam’s Razor, one of the most abused nostrums for the simple-minded:

William of Occam (or Ockham) (1284-1347) was an English philosopher and theologian. His work on knowledge, logic and scientific inquiry played a major role in the transition from medieval to modern thought. He based scientific knowledge on experience and self-evident truths, and on logical propositions resulting from those two sources.

In his writings, Occam stressed the Aristotelian principle that entities must not be multiplied beyond what is necessary. This principle became known as Occam's (or Ockham's) Razor or the law of parsimony. A problem should be stated in its basic and simplest terms. In science, an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known and the simplest theory that fits the facts of a problem is the one that should be selected.

This rule has been grossly misinterpreted, dumbed-down to mean: The simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable. The application of this rule in its non-lobotomized form for valid scientific reasoning has a VERY critical difference, conveniently omitted by the coarse thinkers with no patience for detail: The simplest of two or more competing theories, WHICH COVER ALL OF THE KNOWN FACTS is more probably correct.

This is the work of Reductionism, the idiot servant of Materialist philosophy, gone wild (without even the benefit of young breasts on display)!

Of course, throwing the baby out with the bath water, throwing away facts which don’t fit our precious theories, keeping our minds trapped within comfortable limits that require no more growth, no more confrontation with Reality is greatly preferred by the animal mind!

The robot mind, programmed by the mediaMatrix and expensive training (and status elevation) called higher education, is at war with the truth because reality is a work in progress, a moving target, a dynamic mystery standing before us naked but not under our control.

Hmm, that reminds me of something… oh yeah, the magical allure of an independent femme, the mystery of the human heart and mind.

Do men who reduce women to sex androids really get laid more? More to the point, do these Reductionists really satisfy their lovers or even come close, (pun intended)? Do they care if their lovers complain about their ineptitude to other women? Probably not, which makes the case complete: too tight a focus, to reduced a perception makes for a dull tool, in any context!

Following a new leader or abstracted concepts from an array of “leaders” those personalities who are socially-approved, by celebrity, financial success, or political empowerment, does not mean any real progress. It is just the new boss of me, same as the old boss of me.

In order to be part of the winning team, to participate in the consciousness of Unity, rather than oblivion, each individual must be free and to be free they must know themselves. Playing follow the leader is OK for kid’s games and in dire emergencies but there are no free lunches in the school of freedom.

We are not qualified by the supposed superiority of the Leader we chose to follow, whether a living person or a virtual person, the anthropomorphic projection onto an abstraction (like Big Brother or Obama or the Government or the Scientific establishment) but by individual critical thinking and testing, the creative struggle to understand ourselves and the Universe for ourselves and then to express that understanding through the arts and sciences and our being.

There is no escape, ladies and drones, from the absolute responsibility to explore and understand ourselves thoroughly before we can be free enough to form relationships that fully empower all parties. One-on-one, family, team and species-wide relationships require fully mindful, fully awakened participants if ecstatic play is to be eternal, instead of wearing thin in a week, a month or a lifetime.

To play the Utopian, heaven-on-Earth game, we must all grow up and become our own Big Brother and Big Sister, our own father and mother and our own favorite child. Then and only then can we join the other children in play that makes all of us smile as the Universe smiles back.


Anger? as a first reaction to get your a$$ moving, once you see through the Media Matrix and set yourself free from your lifelong mind control collar. Sustainable? not enough to screen your intention to be free from the Talosians, who can’t read primitive emotions but know what you watch on cable/sat, read on the Internet and eat. Our ultimate weapon is laughter and amused detachment at the folly of the would-be emperors. Fear mongers HATE it when the FEAR card doesn’t work. The humiliation of being seen as merely a naked ape is THEIR big fear. Laugh the bastards off the stage! Tell your friends that we can build a real civilization from the ruins of the totalitarian game!

HighLairEon  posted on  2010-05-29   16:01:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: HighLairEon (#8)

Huh?

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2010-05-30   16:45:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]