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Title: Why Christian Zionists are Not Christian
Source: Unclebob's Treehouse
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jun 15, 2010
Author: Bob Wallace
Post Date: 2010-06-15 10:54:50 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 319
Comments: 28

Poor Nietzsche. Half genius, half insane – and after his untreated syphilis advanced far enough, totally insane.

The trigger for his breakdown was when he saw a horse being beaten. He threw his arms around it, sobbing. He never recovered, and ended his days in an insane asylum.

For all of his attempts to portray himself as a bad boy, Nietzsche was in real life anything but. For one thing, he was far too sensitive for his own good, even though he tried to pretend he wasn’t sensitive at all. As hard as he tried to not to, he identified with victims, and that’s why the horse being beaten broke him.

In one of his writings, “Dionysius vs. the Crucified,” Nietzsche wrote about two totally different religions – one based on taking the point of view of the victimizer, and the other that takes the point of view of the victim.

The first religion he correctly identified as pagan, and it has nothing to do with the “kinder, gentler” paganism that those revolted by what Christianity has become are trying to create.

The second religion Nietzsche identified as Christian. Although an atheist, he was in some ways more Christian than those who today profess to be. He could at least identify with those victimized, something today, in my opinion, Christian Zionists cannot do.

The pagan god Dionysius, Nietzsche pointed out, was not the god of drinking and partying and having a good time. He was the god of drunken rioting, destruction, and at times tearing people to shreds. And although it sounds counter-intuitive, he was also a fertility god.

We’ve all seen Dionysius. Every time you see a mob of people rioting and destroying things, and breaking into businesses and carrying off the merchandise and hitting innocent people in the head with bricks, the way Reginald Denny was on the receiving of one, that’s Dionysius at his worst.

There are many different myths about Dionysius – apparently each Greek town had its own version -- but all of them employed the same concept: a god who is slain – in fact dismembered -- and then restored to life. That’s one of the reasons he was a fertility god – he died and then was reborn, just as the crops were every year.

The ancient Greeks actually did engage in drunken destructive festivals, which brought the disapproval of the authorities, who feared revolution. A government afraid of revolution? We can use the Dionysian slaughter of the French Revolution as an example of that fear. (If you want to understand ancient myths, look for the modern equivalent.)

These drunken destructive orgiastic rites were finally tamed by being turned into plays, such as the ones about Oedipus and Agamemnon. In the original communal festivals, people, after their rioting, felt “cleansed” -- then later, after the plays took the festivals’ place, the same catharsis sent them home rid of what Aristotle famously called “pity and fear.”

One of the most ominous things about these festivals is there was always a scapegoat, one onto which the sins and frustrations of the community were projected. Often they were killed. Later, in the theater, the characters were the scapegoats, only this time they were fictional and died only in imagination.

Scapegoating is why today in destructive rioting there are always people – the “oppressors” – who are targeted for attack (sometimes these scapegoats have been dead for hundreds of years, such as the infamous “Dead White Males” responsible for every problem in the U.S., and, indeed, the world).

After the rioting and attacks are over, those involved – however temporarily – feel renewed and rejuvenated, because they have “cleansed” themselves, not of their pity and fear, but their resentment and hate.

This scapegoating is the main thing Nietzsche noticed about Dionysius. All pagan religions, he told us, are Dionysian. They take the point of view of the victimizer; the scapegoats are always guilty and were killed for the utilitarian “greater good.”

Christianity, on the other hand, for the first time in history took the point of view of the victim. As the Gospels show, Jesus was the innocent victim, although the religious leaders of the time, and the secular authorities, considered him guilty.

The Russian writer Dmitri Merejkowski saw the same division that Nietzsche did: he believed all religions could be divided into two basic ones: in the first, Man sacrifices Man to Man. In the second, God sacrifices Himself to Man.

Today, the French philosopher and theologian Rene Girard is probably the most well-known writer about scapegoating. Not surprisingly, he has been influenced by Nietzsche, whom he considered a prophet. A crazed one, but still a prophet.

Girard thought the function of a scapegoat was to renew society, however imperfectly, and another theologian, Walter Wink, agreed with him, calling it “the myth of redemptive violence,” i.e., the world can be reborn through violence.

Girard has suggested scapegoating should have ended with Jesus’ sacrifice, because it was the first time in history the scapegoat was considered innocent. Before that, he tells us, people always thought the scapegoats deserved exactly what they got.

The psychiatrist M. Scott Peck said scapegoating is “the genesis of human evil,” because when they do it people ignore their own guilt and other flaws and project them onto other people, whom they believe have to be destroyed to rid the world of whom they have defined as evil.

In the 20th Century the Nazis and most especially the Communists (who were far, far worse than the Nazis), were masters at this killing of those they defined as scapegoats, and therefore damned as evil. Each thought their society would be renewed after violently getting rid of their scapegoats.

Each of those ideologies, as Merejkowski wrote, sacrificed Man to Man. And, as Nietzsche predicted, each were worshippers of Dionysius and his destructive frenzies.

I’ve read estimates of 177 million to 200 million people in the 20th Century killed in various wars. All, ultimately were scapegoats; all, ultimately, were sacrificed to Dionysius.

All of this applies to Christian Zionists? I believe it does.

I consider Christian Zionists to be Christians in name only. CHRINOs, you might say. They do little more than give lip service to the teachings of Jesus, and would be much more honest if they just called themselves Zionists, since they think more of Israel than they do of Jesus.

Perhaps I should just call them worshippers of Dionysius.

At first these people, who have cobbled together their beliefs out of unrelated passages in the Bible, thought the Soviet Union was the anti-Christ, which was going to invade the Middle East and bring about the end of the world. When that didn’t pan out they started pinning their hopes on the Islamic world. First the U.S.S.R. was the scapegoat; now it’s Muslims.

What Christian Zionists hope is to kick-start the Apocalypse so Jesus will come back, destroy his enemies – currently Muslims; who knows who’s next? – kill about two-third of the Jews in Israel and convert the rest, and then rule over a reborn world. That’s why they have to support Israel – they are convinced it’s the only way they’re going to be Raptured into Heaven. Which means they don’t have to first die to get there.

Israel comes first for these people; Jesus, second. They don’t know this and certainly wouldn’t believe it if told.

To describe their doings in one word: Dionysius. These Christian Zionists want the world to erupt in slaughter, disease, starvation and war – the ultimate party hosted by the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse – so their scapegoats will be destroyed, and then the world reborn. If that’s not worshipping Dionysius in the worst possible way, then what is?

Dionysius belongs to what Mircea Eliade called "the myth of the eternal return." This myth has roots in non-Christian classical civilization, and in it the creation of society is followed by the degeneration of it and then by regeneration.

This notion helped the ancients deal with the uncertainty of the future, just as it helps Christian Zionists deal with our uncertain future. Although, in their minds, there is nothing uncertain about it.

The writers I’ve quoted are telling us when certain groups of people believe society (or the world) is degenerating, a scapegoat must be found and destroyed (currently, the Islamic world, followed by the entire world), so society can be regenerated (the return of Jesus).

I doubt any Christian Zionist has any conscious understanding that they worship a Greek god and also believe in a pagan concept -- the Myth of the Eternal Return. Or, better yet, that they are scapegoaters par excellence, since they want to sacrifice the entire world, not just a goat, the way the ancient Hebrews did.

The most perverse things about these CHRINOs is that, contrary to what they so fervently tell us, they no longer believe in the sacrifice of Jesus.

If they really believed Jesus took the sins of the world onto himself, they wouldn’t want to visit their own sins – their Dionysian slaughter and death/rebirth -- onto the world. They wouldn’t have replaced Jesus with Dionysius.

They wouldn’t have sought political power in their attempts to start Holy World War I in the Middle East, or helped put into office George Bush (whose favorite “philosopher,” Jesus Christ, apparently told him it was okay to start two unnecessary wars).

The political power of these people can be crushing. Bush once criticized something Israel did, and he received 10,000 angry emails from these Christian Zionists. He never made that mistake again. These CHRINOs, with their lust for their “Left Behind” best-sellers, don’t want to be around when the hammer comes down. They want to avoid the riots and dwell in their fiction until they get wafted up into Heaven – the Rapture – so all the unsaved can suffer the Tribulation. They want the world to end and be regenerated but expect to be watching it from on high. They don’t want to experience the drunken rioting and destruction, the wars and disease and starvation.

Instead they want to read about those things vicariously, the way the Greeks had their Dionysian festivals turned into theater, then instead of going home purged of pity and fear, they expect to leave the theater permanently.

In fact, they appear to have no pity at all, but a lot of fear, which they have purged through their delusions. Perhaps they are also engaging in some gloating and self-righteousness, too. (Aristotle noticed their attitude in his “Poetics,” when he wrote, “If an enemy kills an enemy, there is nothing to excite pity either in the act or the intention…)

I am not familiar with any belief in the history of the world to rival this perversion of Christianity, this replacing of Jesus with Dionysius.

These CHRINOs have no guilt over what they expect, and indeed, they should be consumed with it, and as such, give up their beliefs. Where is their contrition, their sorrow for what they believe and want? It doesn’t exist. They have no empathy for the innocent. They take the point of view of the victimizer, not the victim.

Instead, they believe they are innocent, their hands free of blood, because to them it’s God’s will. And they don’t want to see it any other way.

When the Rapture and Tribulation do not happen, how are these people going to atone for what they’ve done?

I am reminded of what playwright Arthur Miller said: "It is always and forever the struggle: to perceive somehow our own complicity with evil…[it is] much more reassuring to see the world in terms of totally innocent victims and totally evil instigations of the monstrous violence. At all costs, never disturb our innocence."

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#1. To: Turtle, AllTheKingsHorses, James Deffenbach, farmfriend, christine, Scrapper2, abraxas, CadetD, All (#0) (Edited)

A very thoughtful piece. I am quite impressed. It is well thought out and summarizes nicely the contradictions of Christian Zionism which is anything but Christian.

To be a "Christian" Zionist one must first throw out and disregard most of the Bible and teachings of Jesus Christ. Instead of "suffer the little children" it becomes "let the little children suffer".

To be a "Christian" Zionist one must believe that remaining passive in the face of immense evil is an expression of "faith". Faith in what? Faith the by remaining passive and not standing against evil is the path of the righteous? Somehow that does not evoke for me the image of the Jesus who drove forth from the temple the Moneychangers.

To be a "Christian" Zionist is to stand against, not for, the teachings of the Bible, to disregard the message of the Ten Commandments, and to black out the imagae of the crusading Jesus who stood up for the goodness and light which lies in all men and women. It becomes, as in the metaphor of this piece, a Dionysian Sacrifice of Jesus carried out ritually as the scapegoat for the failings of man. Lost becomes one of the most important messages which Christ brought, you are not flesh, you are a spirit. Gone, in the perversions of this evil philosopy of "Chirstian" Zionism is the spirit of mercy, charity, and redemption which is carried forth in the soul of Christianity.

To be a "Christian" Zionist one must throw out the concepts of the strong defending the weak, the sacrifice of self for the protection and salvation of others. Gone in "Christian" Zionism are in fact all those things which make Christianity different from pagan beliefs and human sacrifice.

To be a "Christian" Zionist one must believe that the sacrifice of millions, nay, billions of innocent lives upon the pyre of a burning world is required to fulfill the Christian message of Peace on Earth Good Will to Men.

In the end "Christian" Zionism is not only a fatalistic belief it is an abrogation of the covenant and of the responsibility of each to carry the message of charity, sacrifice to the greater good, and of the duty of the strong to care for and defend the weak. "Christian" Zionism may be many things, but it is not Christian. It is little more than pagan beliefs wrapped in a coating of perversions and sold like "Old Dr. Quack's" Miracle Snake Oil Potion as a perverse righteousness and the absolution from responsibility that lies with each to live up to the standards of decency and righteousness which is true Christianity at its best. It requires the practitioner of this perversion to stand idly, and even clamor for, the burning of a world in order to fulfill their warped visions. The "Christian" Zionist is working merrily away beating Plowshares into Swords, and standing by while the arsonist lights the fire to bring down a world in flames. So, the question is this the path of the righteous? Is this truly the message of Christianity - to stand by mute in the face of evil, to regard the fulfillment of evil's designs as somehow expressing the message of Christianity, or is it a perversion, a false path laid down to justify the doings of evil men sold to the weak of spirit so that they might with a "clean" conscience avert their eyes from a world filled with suffering and misery while they wrap themselves in the false piety of the indifferent, the indolent, and the handmaidens of evil?

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-06-15   12:39:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: abraxas, wudidiz, Jethro Tull, Eric Stratton, Lod, Deacon Benjamin, All (#1)

Oops. Mean't to ping youse guys.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-06-15   12:44:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Turtle (#0)

You appear to make the assumption that all Christian Zionists are rapture nutters. However, that is far from the case. As an example, one of the biggest Christian Zionists on LP, Sweetjustusnow, is a Lutheran and virulent anti-Rapture nut, yet she would sell her children into bondage for Israel if asked.

Christian Zionists consist of all Christian denominations, from Catholic and Orthodox to the most tribal of the snake handlers - both rapture nuts and non. What they appear to have in common (besides an infatuation with all things Jewish) is a deep seeded hatred and desire to kill anyone that refuses to either kowtow to the State of Israel or have compassion for a group of people (Palestinians) who are ethnically more Jewish than the European Jews who stole the land in 1948.

As an aside, isn't it interesting how much the State of Israel, Zionist Jews and Christian Zionists hate the United Nations when it is the United Nations that gave birth to the apartheid State of Israel?

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-06-15   13:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#3)

As an aside, isn't it interesting how much the State of Israel, Zionist Jews and Christian Zionists hate the United Nations when it is the United Nations that gave birth to the apartheid State of Israel?

Yes it is. And the answer is, imo, all of the resolutions that have been passed agaisnt israhell. Not that they have ever done any good. It's the thought that counts.

IMO the UN is a paper tiger and isn't a factor in anything except organizing circle jerks with their members. That is a good thing. The more incompetence among those with a desire to rule, the better I like it.

Most of them support israhell for a few reasons that come to mind, from what I've seen. One is the taking scripture out of context (those that bless israhell will be blessed, the belief that israhell is a fulfillment of prophecy, etc.) and/or the belief in a nonexistent rapture.

You can't reason with them, in face to face or on the internet.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-15   13:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Turtle (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   13:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Eric Stratton (#5)

Moreover, they exclaim, without any supporting evidence, that "God would not allow that to happen to his people"

Yes they do have "evidence". 1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

throughout history God has permitted "his people" to suffer here on earth at the hands of others.

They forget all about that part. It's much too inconvenient for them to remember that.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-15   13:33:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PSUSA (#4)

Yes it is. And the answer is, imo, all of the resolutions that have been passed agaisnt israhell. Not that they have ever done any good. It's the thought that counts.

I agree. However, a country that was born by a UN resolution has no right to bitch about other UN resolutions that concern them.

IMO the UN is a paper tiger and isn't a factor in anything except organizing circle jerks with their members. That is a good thing. The more incompetence among those with a desire to rule, the better I like it.

The US uses the UN when it suits its purpose. Otherwise it ignores it. If it was up to me we wouldn't have anything to do with it at all. Of course it is the wet dream of all those who want a Star Trek-like Utopian world government

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

Nothing in the State, everything outside the State, everything against the State - Jan Lester, Escape From Leviathan

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it." - Frederic Bastiat

Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone. - Zhuangzi

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-06-15   13:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent (#1)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   13:42:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Original_Intent (#2)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   13:43:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#7)

If it was up to me we wouldn't have anything to do with it at all.

Same here. But for maybe a different reason. I see all governments as being rotten and worthy of being totally destroyed. Only they want war, not the citizens that just want to be left alone. They have to manipulate their citizens to get those wars.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-15   13:47:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: PSUSA (#6)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   13:47:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Eric Stratton (#11)

Try and tell them that, and tell me their reaction... I can guess.

It's hard to have an honest conversation about religion. If not impossible. THey are incapable of saying "I don't know", much less "you have a point there". It's not that hard. I've done it many times. But it's like it's the hardest thing they ever had to try.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-15   13:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Eric Stratton (#8)

To be a christian Zionist one must believe contrary to Christ's own teachings that his kingdom will in fact one day be of this earth.

I am in no way a "Christian" Zionist, but I know His kingdom is ALREADY of this earth; for He did not say His kingdom was NOT of THIS EARTH. He said His kingdom was not NOW [at this time] of THIS [Caesar's/Pharisees] WORLD [Greek word "kosmos" = government, constitution, order of things]. He spoke those words before He was crucified and rose from the dead. His New World Order [Kingdom] began [Daniel 2:44] when He rose from the dead.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world....
kosmos = world-system. 1Cor 1:20 Jn 7:7. ..... but now-but the fact is. is my kingdom not from hence bible.cc/john/18-36.htm

The truth, once it is fully understood, will make us free, because then, perhaps, His followers would FIGHT [contend] for Him that His kingdom not be delivered to the Jews.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-06-15   14:29:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#1)

I can count on one hand the Christians I know who are not doing the devil's work.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-06-15   14:32:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: PSUSA (#12)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   15:01:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#13)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-15   15:03:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Eric Stratton (#15)

For all of our disagreements on Christianity, I wholeheartedly agree with all of that. I experience the same exact things.

I dont mind the disagreements, so long as the other person is honest. I think most here can be, and are, honest. But I also found out that most will pick and choose what they will respond to and ignore what goes against their beliefs, when it is shown conclusively that they are wrong. THe best example I have is the "eternal torture in hell" nonsense. Many have shown this to be a lie, but when shown to others it angers them for some reason.

IMO a more formal debating method would be needed to avoid cherry picking what points to respond to. And even then, I don't know what the point would be. I changed my beliefs because of what I read on a board, because it was proven right, but not too many will do that. It just pisses them off to the point that there is real anger.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
CHIMPOUT!

Live free or die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-06-15   15:45:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Turtle (#0)

Rapture and Tribulation

Big Butter Jeebus just melted in Ohio, I think the rapture is well underway ;)

Lysander_Spooner  posted on  2010-06-15   16:10:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Turtle (#0)

Excellent article!!

You really should post The Four Cardinal Virtues of Government too. I really enjoyed reading that over at STR. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-06-15   20:05:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Turtle (#0)

Holy crap.....Turtle has finally crawled out of his shell....I've only waited a year and half for him to comment on something of substance!! BTW, better late than never I guess.

john stadtmiller  posted on  2010-06-15   21:04:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Eric Stratton (#11)

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one

IMHO. Morality is a luxury, few can afford. Expediency is the poor man's morality. Words like liberty, and equality, are high sounding concepts but like happiness, impossible to achieve.

It is said that happiness is something we remember but do not experience. We look back and say, "I was happy, then."

We we're free, back then. Everyone was equal, during the depression.

Stop with the cliches, please.

angK  posted on  2010-06-15   21:57:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: john stadtmiller (#20)

I've only waited a year and half for him to comment on something of substance!! BTW, better late than never I guess.

No offense John,

I still waiting for you to restore the comments section on RBN.

angK  posted on  2010-06-15   22:00:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Lysander_Spooner (#18) (Edited)

oops

WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)

Flintlock  posted on  2010-06-15   22:17:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Turtle, Stick To Disinformation (#0)

These CHRINOs, with their lust for their “Left Behind” best-sellers, don’t want to be around when the hammer comes down.

But they will, and that hammer will be THOR'S!!

When the Rapture and Tribulation do not happen, how are these people going to atone for what they’ve done?

Hook'em up to one of these and shake'em till THEIR nuts come off.

WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)

Flintlock  posted on  2010-06-15   22:39:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: angK (#21)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-16   8:59:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Eric Stratton (#25)

I could go on and write books here.

IMHO. Morality is a luxury, few can afford. What's your definition of "morality," because it sure doesn't seem to be what it actually is?

And why is it a "luxury" other than for the fact that it has been forcibly stripped from the foundations of American society?

Stop with the vague, shallow, unsubstantiated reasoning, ... please!

If you'd like to discuss, I'm all ears

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I speak from experience, not wisdom.

I'm a hardened old broad and would not wish to engage you in a debate. Now THAT is wisdom.

angK  posted on  2010-06-16   11:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#3)

You appear to make the assumption that all Christian Zionists are rapture nutters. However, that is far from the case. As an example, one of the biggest Christian Zionists on LP, Sweetjustusnow, is a Lutheran and virulent anti-Rapture nut, yet she would sell her children into bondage for Israel if asked.

I have a simple view of Christianity.

Anyone who supports Israel, or thinks that Jews are still God's Chosen, is not a Christian.

They're doing the Devil's work.

For it is not the wolf or any of the other beasts that would join the contest in any noble danger, but rather a good man. — Aristotle, Politics, Book IIX

Turtle  posted on  2010-06-16   11:51:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: angK (#26)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"You've got to put right and wrong above legal and illegal. Because when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty; and it is not rebellion at all, it is submission to the higher law that our government is in rebellion to. We're not the rebels, they're the rebels."

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-06-16   12:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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