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Title: U.N. VEHICLES BY THE THOUSANDS STAGED IN FLORIDA
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Published: Jun 11, 2010
Author: autocollisionman
Post Date: 2010-06-27 08:11:32 by Itistoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 1638
Comments: 217
Poster Comment: just the right location for results of the "oil spill"
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#1. To: Itistoolate (#0)
Hasn't this already been debunked? These are supposedly common utility vans that have been parked on an old airpark runway, an industrial park. They aren't painted white, they have a white plastic sheeting applied to protect paint from the sun. And they don't have U.N. logos on them. There is a rumor these are vans that were imported but couldn't be sold due to the economy being bad. This could be true as there are other big storage lots in the area. But then it would be easily discovered that GM or some car dealer was storing them there. So I doubt this. There is another rumor about them but I can't verify it: “Reynolds Airpark” is listed in the Clay County Fla. plat/tax rolls as being wholly owned by a company named Pegasus International. Ok, I thought, what exactly is “Pegasus International” and what exactly do they do?? Well — among other things, they just happen to be involved in the OIL DRILLING BUSINESS — with ties to Halliburton and BRITISH PETROLEUM!!! What the hell??? See their website at: pegasus-international.com Then, of all things, they just happen to have an office in Salt Lake City, Utah. Here is where the plot thickens. Their SLC office also houses Dick Cheney’s Halliburton, and is next to the Minerals Management Service (MMS) offices. Worse, their U.K. office “address” is next door to (or possibly even a part of) British Petroleum as well. What is going on?? They also have “offices” in Turkmenistan, Nigeria, and Azerbijan — hotbeds of political intrigue and profiteering for BP. See universalpegasus.com But — it gets worse, if possible. “Pegasus International” owns and operates Pegasus Technologies — which is involved in a neat little NSA/CIA operation titled the “Information Sharing Council” or ISC. Their “unclassified” 2006 report can be seen here (pdf). A careful reading of this document shows that part of the “Pegasus Program” is the deployment of thousands of vehicles across America, outfitted with domestic spying “Maximum Information Technology” (MaxIT) systems. MaxIT is a joint venture of the following companies: Appriss Inc., Bio-Key International, Inc., Business Communications Inc., Circadence Corporation, Cquay Technologies, Dell, eLabs Inc., MS e-Center and Sun Microsystems. (See 12/12/03 report here) When I studied DynCorp International, I found that DynCorp and Pegasus International are basically joined at the hips with many international “joint projects”. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that DynCorp, and Pegasus are CIA FRONT COMPANIES involved in the deepest black ops. (See NanoTech expose in “Dr. Ott’s Papers” here.) Also, check this out. Dyncorp Int. was “purchased” back on April 12 by Cerberus Capital, and the “deal” was brokered by, you guessed it, Goldman Sachs who SHORTED TRANSOCEAN STOCKS on April 17, three days before the Gulf Oil debacle began. (See here for more details about that).
UPDATE On UN Vans At Jacksonville Airfield June 11th, 2010 A recent post showed what appeared to be UN vehicles parked on an airstrip in Jacksonville, Florida. This forum post from Above Top Secret may shed more light on this story. Very strange explanation for vehicles at Jacksonville Airfield source: AboveTopSecret I just found this link which is an in depth explanation of this link. Read it thoroughly, it is quite interesting and very possible. They are not UN vehicles at all on the private Reynolds Airpark. They are owned by Pegasus. Here is a quick excerpt from the first link. Now, for the BAD NEWS — “Reynolds Airpark” is listed in the Clay County Fla. plat/tax rolls as being wholly owned by a company named Pegasus International. Ok, I thought, what exactly is “Pegasus International” and what exactly do they do?? Well – among other things, they just happen to be involved in the OIL DRILLING BUSINESS – with ties to Halliburton and BRITISH PETROLEUM!!! What the hell??? See their website at: pegasus-international.com Then, of all things, they just happen to have an office in Salt Lake City, Utah. Here is where the plot thickens. Their SLC office also houses Dick Cheney’s Halliburton, and is next to the Minerals Management Service (MMS) offices. Worse, their U.K. office “address” is next door to (or possibly even a part of) British Petroleum as well. What is going on?? They also have “offices” in Turkmenistan, Nigeria, and Azerbijan – hotbeds of political intrigue and profiteering for BP. See universalpegasus.com But — it gets worse, if possible. “Pegasus International” owns and operates Pegasus Technologies – which is involved in a neat little NSA/CIA operation titled the “Information Sharing Council” or ISC. Their “unclassified” 2006 report can be seen here (pdf). A careful reading of this document shows that part of the “Pegasus Program” is the deployment of thousands of vehicles across America, outfitted with domestic spying “Maximum Information Technology” (MaxIT) systems. MaxIT is a joint venture of the following companies: Appriss Inc., Bio-Key International, Inc., Business Communications Inc., Circadence Corporation, Cquay Technologies, Dell , eLabs Inc., MS e-Center and Sun Microsystems. (See 12/12/03 report here) When I studied DynCorp International, I found that DynCorp and Pegasus International are basically joined at the hips with many international “joint projects”. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that DynCorp, and Pegasus are CIA FRONT COMPANIES involved in the deepest black ops. (See NanoTech expose in “Dr. Ott’s Papers” here.) Also, check this out. Dyncorp Int. was “purchased” back on April 12 by Cerberus Capital, and the “deal” was brokered by, you guessed it, Goldman Sachs who SHORTED TRANSOCEAN STOCKS on April 17, three days before the Gulf Oil debacle began. (See here for more details about that). EDIT TO ADD: Additional Information Confirmed they are CIA front company and the vehicles have been dispersed Current Image VIA Bing of Reynolds Air Park. As of this time the UN Vehicles have been dispersed. - In regards to the UN Vehicles at Reynolds Air park in FL; as of this time the vehicles are confirmed to be removed. We have visual/ Video confirmation as well as updated SAT Images. However it looks as if this air park serves as a shipping front for a CIA “Black Bag” front with ties to the CIA and DHS. Pegasus Technologies, INC. Analysis indicates Pegasus is the contractor for the deployment of thses vehicles.Operating out of Reynolds Airpark in Green Cove Springs, Florida, FAA airport identifier FL60. An analysis of thousands of flight records, aircraft registrations and corporate documents, as well as interviews with former C.I.A. officers and pilots, show that the agency owns at least 26 planes, 10 of them purchased since 2001. The agency has concealed its ownership behind a web of seven shell corporations that appear to have no employees and no function apart from owning the aircraft. The planes, regularly supplemented by private charters, are operated by real companies controlled by or tied to the agency, including Aero Contractors and two Florida companies, Pegasus Technologies and Tepper Aviation. nomorecensorship.com/tag/reynolds-airpark/
Looking further, I find some of those dots apparently don't connect. For instance, Pegasus International is not connected to Pegasus Technologies. Two entirely different outfits. The airpark is owned by the county, not Pegasus. However, it is also said that that operation is a holding company. There is also a bunch of rumors that these are satellite-equipped vans for Directv. And also that it all ties in with the old GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network) which was supposed to safeguard the president's ability to launch a nuclear attack if a EMP nuke was exploded over North America. I assume that the capability is still there but these sites are now also being used for multipositional GPS transmitters, the kind that uses a ground signal to make professional surveying GPS equipment accurate down to within a few inches.
Do you believe we are very close to martial law and a NWO? Or are you a 'disinformation specialist?
Or are you a 'disinformation specialist? You mean, one of Them? LOL. I'm afraid I'm not that sinister. I do get fascinated by wild hoaxes, usually perpetrated by internet hoaxters or by Alex Jones or George Noory or those types. A good recent example was the controversy over McChrystal's firing. I saw all the Right getting hot, thinking that this good patriotic conservative general had been railroaded by the evil Lefties at Rolling Stone. Then Armbinder at The Atlantic, a very well-connected guy, comes out and says "Now it can be revealed..." that McChrystal was an Obama voter, is a social liberal and a political liberal and banned Fox News from being seen at his command in Af-Pak, also that he was engaged in liberal social engineering of the Afghan population in his areas. So it wasn't some valiant conservative patriot general being railroaded. It was a Lefty general getting in trouble because a Lefty reporter wrote some stuff about their drinking spree which caused our Lefty president to fire the general. Once this was revealed, those on the Right lost all interest in McChrystal. What is interesting is how quickly they rallied around General Petraeus. You are probably familiar with how the mindset on the Right works: as soon as one tin god falls, you must immediately replace him with another one. Then all is well. LOL. It is interesting to track down all the different conflicting rumors on something like the Florida vans, see how they cross-pollinate each other (often as an obvious result of Google searching a topic). We see Sorcha Faal was finally exposed as a hoax. The one that keeps popping up that hasn't been fully investigated is Debkafile. I think they're a Mossad operation, meant to swirl rumors about Israel and the Mideast, to muddy the internet waters with disinfo and misdirection. Or to break "stories" at a key moment and distract people from other factual reporting on Israel and the Mideast. For instance, recently Debka ran a bunch of stuff on American ships and Israeli submarines preparing to attack Iran, hyping it as much as possible. That filtered around the internet, distracting from the boarding of the flotilla, the situation in Gaza, etc. I've noticed this same thing before, that Debka surfaces most strongly with its wildest stories just when the internet folk (supporters of Israel, especially among American evangelicals) need to be distracted from actual news about Israel or the Mideast. It's all a little too tidy, it seems to me. Of course, Debka might be just some amateur propagandizing. Or Debka might be connected with Mossad or with Israeli state department or Likud (probably) or Israeli arms manufacturers or whatever. Given the incredible variety and constant arguing on these topics by Jews in the States and Israel, who really knows just who Debka is connected to. Or if they're just attention whores. Even going by what they themselves say about their sources, it is obvious they can easily be manipulated by Israeli government sources and/or Likud.
CERBERUS — GUARDING THE GATES OF HELL?? « The Story Behind The Story Jun 4, 2010 ... “Pegasus International” owns and operates Pegasus Technologies – which is involved in a neat little NSA/CIA operation titled the ... atrueott.wordpress.com/20...arding-the-gates-of-hell/ CERBERUS — GUARDING THE GATES OF HELL?? Filed under: Uncategorized by atrueott — 30 Comments June 4, 2010 UPDATED INFORMATION ON GPS COORDINATES ON GOOGLE MAPS AND GOOGLE EARTH!! Also, since this article was posted, I have received documentation that the vans are the property of DirectTV, and are being outfitted with new GWEN TOWER and Satellite accessing technologies. Doesn’t that make you feel better?? (How can the CIA and NSA collect data for the new “Data Collection Center” in Utah — do you think they would use vans with government license plates and CIA/NSA Collections on the side – or would they use a cover corporation such as DirectTV??) Open Google Earth and enter these GPS coordinates: 29.972464, and 81.660923. The You-tube video www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y...A&feature=player_embedded is a bit spurious and misinforming to say the least. First, this is not an “Air Force Base” — it is a PRIVATELY OWNED FACILITY known as “Reynolds Airpark” a private Airport and “manufacturing facility”. A Mr. Ted McGowan is the manager – and their phone number is: 904-284-3505. Second, these are not “U.N. Vehicles”. These white vans belong to Pegasus International and Cerberus/DynCorp. Check it out: www.airport-data.com/airport/FL60/ and the latest (May 28, 2010) picture of the airport at: www.airport-data.com/airport/photo/017237.html.html Now, for the BAD NEWS — “Reynolds Airpark” is listed in the Clay County Fla. plat/tax rolls as being wholly owned by a company named Pegasus International. Ok, I thought, what exactly is “Pegasus International” and what exactly do they do?? Well – among other things, they just happen to be involved in the OIL DRILLING BUSINESS – with ties to Halliburton and BRITISH PETROLEUM!!! What the hell??? See their website at: www.pegasus-international.com/site.php Then, of all things, they just happen to have an office in Salt Lake City, Utah. Here is where the plot thickens. Their SLC office also houses Dick Cheney’s Halliburton, and is next to the Minerals Management Service (MMS) offices. Worse, their U.K. office “address” is next door to (or possibly even a part of) British Petroleum as well. What is going on?? They also have “offices” in Turkmenistan, Nigeria, and Azerbijan – hotbeds of political intrigue and profiteering for BP. See www.universalpegasus.com/locations.php But — it gets worse, if possible. “Pegasus International” owns and operates Pegasus Technologies – which is involved in a neat little NSA/CIA operation titled the “Information Sharing Council” or ISC. Their “unclassified” 2006 report can be seen at www.ise.gov/docs/eds/edspo-conops.pdf. A careful reading of this document shows that part of the “Pegasus Program” is the deployment of thousands of vehicles across America, outfitted with domestic spying “Maximum Information Technology” (MaxIT) systems. MaxIT is a joint venture of the following companies: Appriss Inc., Bio-Key International, Inc., Business Communications Inc., Circadence Corporation, Cquay Technologies, Dell, eLabs Inc., MS e-Center and Sun Microsystems. (See 12/12/03 report on www.eetimes.com/press_rel...cleID=117687&CompanyId=1) When I studied DynCorp International, I found that DynCorp and Pegasus International are basically joined at the hips with many international “joint projects”. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that DynCorp, and Pegasus are CIA FRONT COMPANIES involved in the deepest black ops. (See NanoTech expose in “Dr. Ott’s Papers” on this website.) Also, check this out. Dyncorp Int. was “purchased” back on April 12 by Cerberus Capital, and the “deal” was brokered by, you guessed it, Goldman Sachs who SHORTED TRANSOCEAN STOCKS on April 17, three days before the Gulf Oil debacle began. See finance.yahoo.com/news/Dy...-3625293200.html?x=0&.v=1 WHAT IN THE GATES OF HELL IS GOING ON????? Here we have VISUAL PROOF of hundreds of vehicles undergoing modifications by Pegasus International teams at their Reynolds AirPark facility, all indications of MaxIT information is that the process involved is basically making the vehicles ultra-modern “spy-mobiles” (the on-line google-earth picture was dated Jan. 2008, while the most current picture of May 28, 2010 -shows the spy-vans still on property.) We also now know that Dyncorp is now Cerberus, and they are tied to Pegasus International. So, what’s in a name? Consider that Pegasus and Cerberus are both central figures of Greek (and Roman) mythology. Pegasus is the preferred mode of transportation for the pantheon of gods, while Cerberus — well — this is the mythical guardian of the gates of hell! What would possess anybody to name their corporation Cerberus??? This world is in deep trouble, it would appear.
Pegasus International does offshore drilling services, not so different than Halliburton does for Mideast oil support operations. Pegasus International was merged a few years back with Universal Ensco, a similar company, and with Peak Power Engineering. The three companies are now known as Universal Pegasus. And Pegasus Technologies is just a small-fry IT consulting firm from Pennsylvania. They kind of flounder around as a business, you can find lots of their defunct websites from every time they remake their company yet again. They have no connection to Pegasus Intl that I can find (they're too small to interest Pegasus Intl). I can't find any connections between Cerberus Capital Management and these other companies. Check the link for all the other stuff Cerberus is involved in. Cerberus acquired Dyncorp, a mercenary and security services and air freight and aircraft servicing provider in the Mideast and also a contractor for War On Drugs eradication campaigns and also air services provider a few years back. No indication of any connection to the Reynolds operation in FL with the vans though. They are a bit like KBR and Xe/Blackwater. Big contractors supporting Pentagon ops globally and cashing in big time. So we can see that much of this disinfo can be easily debunked. However, what we don't see are all the holding companies and secret contracts that could possibly exist. But what is clear is that the above info that paints these companies as a single operation is simply wrong, the result of hoaxters or ignorant people trying to connect dots where there are no dots to connect. Maybe they are really are connected (say, by offshore holding companies or by secret contracts and such) but it is clear that there is no info in the public domain at this juncture that points to it. You could just as easily replace the names of these companies with Xe/Blackwater and a bunch of others. And you'd have just as much proof of it (i.e. none, zero, nada, zilch). The fake story might sound convincing to some people and get page hits. But that wouldn't make the stories true. It goes back to Occam's Law, the simple answer usually being correct. If these vans are such a mystery, are you telling me that someone in the hundreds of thousands of people in the 20-mile area would not have gone to the industrial park to look for plates or logos with the U.N. logo (or Directv or whatever). It would be a big story if they could prove it. But like the endless stories about the black helicopters (possibly circulated by the CIA to discredit people as conspiracy nuts), there is never any proof. Yet, these vans are parked on an old runway in an industrial park where the info could be easily obtained. Or someone could take photos with a telephoto lens from outside. Yet, none of that has happened, despite every American having such a hankering for their 15 minutes of fame on the internet. It just doesn't pass a reasonableness test. Nor has any employee of the various companies at this industrial park posted info about sinister U.N. vans which might lead to payouts of tens of thousands by the tabloids like National Enquirer.
Those evacuations are for a possible hurricane, not the oil spill. They want to make sure that oil recovery workers and operations don't impede a coastal evacuation if a big hurricane like Andrew hits FL again. They do these preparations every year. It's a big nothing. They're just updating their plans to make some allowances for a hurricane coming during a big oil spill. It isn't sinister.
More silliness. Wiki: "Founded in 1992, Cerberus is named for the mythological three-headed dog that guarded the gates of Hades. Feinberg has stated to his employees that while the Cerberus name seemed like a good idea at the time, he later regretted naming the company after the mythological dog." Lots of mythological names get used for various businesses. And there is no connection evident between Pegasus and Cerberus to begin with. You may as well start trying to connect dots between Athena Management of Athens, GA and the Mercury car division of Ford-Lincoln-Mercury. Toss in Zeus International for extra credit. When trying to connect the dots, you have to remember that drawing lines between any two dots doesn't mean there's a connection or that it leads to an accurate picture.
So your contention is our government will not consider a population evacuation, at any time, related to the spew?
It's difficult to imagine it. You understand it simply is not possible to evacuate millions of people that easily. You could evacuate to the extent they do for a big hurricane possibly but you couldn't do it and keep them out of the area for weeks or months. Discounting all the silly toxic rain stories as fables (since oil and water really do not mix), part of the oil will evaporate into the atmosphere (but will not "rain oil" because it can't bond with water vapor). Of what remains of the oil, it will be large tarballs and can mess things up like the beaches or even areas inland if a hurricane picks up the tarballs and carries them farther inland. It would be quite a mess. But even assuming those worst-case scenarios, tarballs spread across Florida wouldn't require any evacuation. I can't speak to the toxicity and durability of the Conexant (sp?) anti-oil spray they've dumped around but it doesn't seem that even in the volumes they used at sea that enough of it could be scrubbed up by a hurricane or by natural water flow to cause any widespread evacuation unless it was a few spots where it was more concentrated. And a hurricane spreading it widely enough would likely reduce the hazard considerably though infants and those with compromised health might get evacuated or put on oxygen or similar.
Prepositioned. It would be great if someone could get a GPS coordinate on these and then go and take some better photos of what decals and how these vehicles are marked.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
OWNING THE WEATHER AND OUR MINDS IN 2008? January 27, 2008 In 1997, Former Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen (above left) said the technology to alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves is real! This statement would immediately make a person think about the 2004 Sumatra earthquake, tsunami and hurricane Katrina. http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=674 In 2001, Congressman Kucinich (above) introduced a bill talking about through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such populations. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH: US AIR FORCE: Weather as a Force Multiplier. Owning the Weather in 2025 http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf
Was that before or after his encounter with the UFO? Kucinich isn't very credible.
Kucinich isn't very credible. Ah, the giggle factor. A conditioned response by years of psychological conditioning in the media and by government. Then follow with a logical fallacy i.e. "guilt by association". So we get the presentation that: Implied Premise: UFOs do not exist. And then the logical fallacy based upon the background of the implied premise. Anyone who has seen a UFO is a kook. All founded upon a false and fallacious chain of reasoning, founded upon a psychologically planted "giggle factor" to encourage people not to look, not to think, and to accept an opinion based not upon evidence, but upon sheer repetition, by an "authority", of an unsupported assertion. While it is not my intent to get off onto a UFO debate the sheer volume of case reports, witness reports etc., all point to an indefinite percentage of UFO reports to be aircraft of some kind. By definition they are unidentified. Further, one can examine the other available reports and reasonably conclude that not all are of terrestrial origin. There too many reports from too many credible witnesses to conclude otherwise. I am not going to bother to go through the evidenciary chain, but the data is there, and mostly in the public domain. One site filled with good reportage is www.sightings.com
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Keep in mind that when the economy tanked it resulted in thousands of unsold vehicles and some closed dealerships. Here in Delaware the Chrysler plant kept building the DODGE DURANGO even though the gas guzzlers were just sitting on dealer lots. (The company figured their profits on the cars built instead of cars sold-more of that uniquely American bookkeeping that helped sink us) There were thousands of them stored at The Port Of Wilmington waiting to be shipped or trucked, a day that never came for most just before the plant was closed. (The good people at Chrysler were so much happier when they were building tanks for the war effort because, "WAR IS GOOD BUSINESS!") Fives years ago there still people who refused to read the signs (you know, those "Bush is the greatest president in the history of the world" types) who drove Humvees and Durangos. I seldom see either on the roads now, and folks have parked them for cheaper cars to fuel and drive. These vans could have been built at a time when the company was whistling past the financial cemetery and refusing to face the facts, or, they could be the result of several canceled fleet orders from FED EX, Happy Harry's, etc. If an order is canceled there's nothing to do but keep the vehicles. It does no good to sue a failing company because there's no money to be had and it damages future sales if a company regains its footing. The basic white paint job may be because they were going to be painted UPS-deux deux brown when they were ordered. Or, they're going to be used by the Sgt. Stedenkos and their jump out squads when the time comes to round up dissidents.....
Kucinich isn't very credible. Ah, the giggle factor. A conditioned response by years of psychological conditioning in the media and by government. Then follow with a logical fallacy i.e. "guilt by association". So we get the presentation that: Implied Premise: UFOs do not exist. And then the logical fallacy based upon the background of the implied premise. Anyone who has seen a UFO is a kook. Kucinich has seen a UFO Therefore Kucinich is a kook. Corrolary: Using the fallacy of Guilt by Association, anything which Kucinich says is not credible. All founded upon a false and fallacious chain of reasoning, founded upon a psychologically planted "giggle factor" to encourage people not to look, not to think, and to accept an opinion based not upon evidence, but upon sheer repetition, by an "authority", of an unsupported assertion. While it is not my intent to get off onto a UFO debate the sheer volume of case reports, witness reports etc., all point to an indefinite percentage of UFO reports to be aircraft of some kind. By definition they are unidentified. Further, one can examine the other available reports and reasonably conclude that not all are of terrestrial origin. There too many reports from too many credible witnesses to conclude otherwise. I am not going to bother to go through the evidenciary chain, but the data is there, and mostly in the public domain. One site filled with good reportage is www.sightings.com Excellent! Way to dismantle a frayed technique that's still favored by some. UFO sightings number in the hundreds annually in the US and in the thousands worldwide, and many are captured with cameras and witnessed by unimpeachable sources. The only people who use such a shabby technique now are those who with equal logic could say, "I've never personally seen a leopard seal so they exist only in the minds of kooks." In fact UFOs have been well documented and witnessed more (by a possible multimillion factor) than the giant toothy predator seals of the icey North.
The only place I have ever seen a Leopard Seal is on film, which can be faked, and at the San Diego Zoo. Of course you can't trust those Zoos - some of the staff likely belongs to PETA or some other Wildlife Organization like the Audubon Society, and you know how those kooks are. Which is of course as valid as the usual UFO scoffer argument regurgitating what they have been told they think. Ditto the Acolytes of that world famous second class Illusionist "The Less than Amazing Randi". Definitely not in the class of a David Copperfield, and not a scientist either - although he is treated as a fount of scientific wisdom by his flock of sheeple. I don't often argue the UFO debate simply because, for me, the sheer volume of evidence and reports from good witnesses is overwhelming. I long ago concluded that the phenomena was valid and that we are likely being visited and observed. Probably by the extraterrestrial equivalent of Anthropologists and Ethnologists - studying the primitives. One of pieces of data that convinced me that there was something to it was that military pilots are subject to prosecution, jail time, and draconian fines for making a UFO report public. Why would the government inflict stern punishments upon the most credible of witnesses if there was no there, there? Wouldn't they, if there was nothing of substance, treat them as insane, pull their ticket to fly, and possibly institutionalize them? Normally, absent a crime, people who are crazy are not prosecuted for the fact of being crazy. So, why prosecute military pilots if what they are seeing is not there? That IS insane. And thanks for the compliment.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I agree, it is a script, commonly used against people like Ron Paul, to "innoculate" the public against Bad Bad Thoughts. But sometimes a nut really is a nut. Like Kucinich. He also swore he wouldn't vote for ObummerCare. But he did after one little plane ride on Air Force One. And, unlike Paul, he has ranted and said stupid things for decades. All? Indefinite? Make up your mind. And no one has ever doubted that some UFOs are unidentified aircraft. And it has been proven repeatedly that this is so. It doesn't help the argument you are trying to make at all.
As usual your logic is unassailable. You can tell which posters are accustomed to piling on and browbeating those who utter heresies. They are probably from LP and/or FR, places where dissent from the dogma is not tolerated regardless of the evidence. You have the patience and the intellect to systematically dismantle their cheap psychological shots. I don't. I'm glad you do. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. Otherwise they'd silence folks who don't "worship at the Dubya throne" here, too.
But sometimes a nut really is a nut. Like Kucinich. He also swore he wouldn't vote for ObummerCare. But he did after one little plane ride on Air Force One. Much better.
Why would the government inflict stern punishments upon the most credible of witnesses if there was no there, there? Wouldn't they, if there was nothing of substance, treat them as insane, pull their ticket to fly, and possibly institutionalize them? Normally, absent a crime, people who are crazy are not prosecuted for the fact of being crazy. So, why prosecute military pilots if what they are seeing is not there? That IS insane. Because those pilots are official members of the government and their statements carry greater weight. Individual members of the military are not allowed to give press conferences, use their position to grandstand, or create public scandal or rumors. So there is sound reason not to allow the military, a subordinate agency of the presidency, to alarm people or to create rumors or to grandstand. And they have good cause to think that at least a few of their pilots are fruitbats as well. Therefore, no independent reporting or press conferences by military pilots. I think it is and should be cause for dismissal. No company or government agency allows their employees to appoint themselves as public spokesmen unilaterally or against the interests of the company/agency. You're assembling negative proofs in a way to use them as a kind of positive evidentiary proof. This isn't possible, however you try to shave off the rough spots in your own mind.
BTW, you are aware that a military pilot could, upon reaching the age of retirement, suddenly decide he "saw" a UFO and then get paid $100K or more by the tabloids to publicize it? Lots of financial incentive and human motives for mischief of that kind.
Nope, sure doesn't make ME feel better. In 2001, Congressman Kucinich (above) introduced a bill talking about through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such populations. You might want to take a look at this: Digital TV: Mind Control By the Sound of Silence A. True Ott, PhD, ND | Educate Yourself.org 54,127 views This is an extremely timely and important essay. It overviews a secret Pentagon psychotronics technology known as Silent Sound Spread Spectrum (SSSS) that has been fully operational since the early 1990s. I first found out about the use of this technology from Al Bielek in a 1992 video he made with Vladimir Terziski. This technology was used against battle-hardened Iraqi troops fortified in deep underground bunkers in Kuwait and Iraq in the first Gulf War in January of 1991. The physical, emotional, and psychological effects of this technology were so severe that hundreds of thousands of Iraqi troops surrended en masse without firing even a single shot against US led coalition forces. The numbers reported in the news were staggering: 75,000 and then annother 125,000 (or more) Iraqi troops would come out of their deep desert bunkers waving white flags and falling to their knees before approaching US troops and literally kiss their captor’s boots or hands if given the opportunity. Why would eight year veterans of Middle Eastern warfare (with Iran 1980-1988) behave this way? Simple. They were subjected to a technology that was so extreme and incomprehensible that they were suddenly reduced to the level of compliant children and felt grateful to still be alive in the wake of their mind-wrenching experience. This technology is about to be used, albeit in a more subtle fashion, against American citizens in a highly classified and covert operation to mind control and manipulate the entire population into ‘compliance’ with our New World order overlords. The technology will utilize a combination of HAARP transmitters, GWEN towers, microwave cell phone towers, and the soon-to-be-mandatory High Definition Digital TV that will enter your home via: a) cable, b) satellite, c) HD TVs, or d) those oh-so-easy-to-obtain “digital converter boxes” that the government is so anxious to help you obtain and underwrite most of the cost on your behalf......" www.wariscrime.com/2008/1...-by-the-sound-of-silence/ BTW, I really hate to say this, and truly hope there is another explanation, but General Stubblebine, along with Knight of the British Empire, Gen. Schwarzkopf, are the two generals who have come to the aid of the "Guardian Elders" of the Restore America Plan, something that gives me great pause.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Cracks me up. Whenever someone points out what loons conspiracists are, all they can do is point and sputter "You must be one of THEM!!"
For it is not the wolf or any of the other beasts that would join the contest in any noble danger, but rather a good man. — Aristotle, Politics, Book IIX
Look, it's a UFO! Like some weird floating head with bad toupee up in the sky! LOL.
It is a way of distracting stupid people when you have no proof to offer to support your wild theories and incredible accounts. Dime a dozen on this interweb thing.
Should we destroy our TVs and converter boxes and satellite boxen now, just to be safe from Big Brutha?
So was the USAF looking for a spot in the National Enquirer when a squadron of UFOs buzzed the US Capitol back in 1952?
1952 Washington D.C. UFO incident
Last week DirecTv installed a new HD satellite dish, receiver, and remote on Mrs.L's tellie. It's not an HD tv, but goodness, is the picture ever brighter and sharper. Oh yeah, it was all gratis.
First things first. These Google Images from Google Maps, how old do you think they are? I did a google map look up on my house, and it's from before I moved in, as there were 9 cars parked next door, and three at my house. So, we have no idea how old the images are. Google Maps are not a real time indicator of what's really there. Second, how hard would it be to go to a place like this, and take photos, and get the truth? Probably not hard at all. Considering that there are 3 hills around it, one could get to the top, and get a good shot with a telescope, or a camera with a high powered zoom. I'm not going to worry until they start rolling around in my neck of the woods. When it happens, that's when all bets are off.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
Explained as a double-inversion. For instance, those military pilots you think so highly of said that the inversion caused radar to bounce off the cloud layer and pick up a boat going to Mount Vernon. This is the far more dangerous kind of UFO (an Unidentified Floating Object), all the more sinister because it doesn't fly at all. The webpage link you provided does far more to debunk your "proof" than to support it.
And that's exactly what you did. You diverted the thread from it's original topic, and made it all about UFOs.
It's not an HD tv, but goodness, is the picture ever brighter and sharper. Oh yeah, it was all gratis. So how do we know we're still talking to the real Lod, not the mind-controlled Lod zombie with Rahm Emmanuel pulling his every string via Directv HD signal? Sorry, but I have to add you to my Evil Zombie list. Can't be too safe, you know.
No, I focused on the Kucinich UFO report, replete with Shirley MacLaine sucking it up for all it was worth (nothing) in her book. It is you who changed the topic with long bloviating posts about UFOs. Of course, that is exactly the kind of thing I would say if I were a disinfo specialist. They teach us how to do it in Disinformation Specialist school.
Or maybe it was "Swamp Gas", eh? You obviously didn't read the part that mentioned military jets being surrounded by these glowing objects, nor does your "inversion" BS explain the visual sightings, notably that which is present in the video I embedded. And here's an excerpt from the Wiki page on the incident... At 8:15 p.m. on Saturday, July 26, 1952, a pilot and stewardess on a National Airlines flight into Washington observed some strange objects above their plane. Within minutes, both radar centers at National Airport, and the radar at Andrews AFB, were tracking more unknown objects. The objects were traveling between 90 and 100 miles per hour. A master sergeant at Andrews visually observed the objects; he later said that "these lights did not have the characteristics of shooting stars. There was [sic] no trails . . . they traveled faster than any shooting star I have ever seen" (Clark, 658). Meanwhile, Albert M. Chop, the press spokesman for Project Blue Book, arrived at National Airport and refused several reporters' requests to photograph the radar screens. He then joined the radar center personnel (Ruppelt, 164). By this time (9:30 p.m.) the radar center was picking up unknown objects in every sector. At times the objects traveled slowly; at other times they reversed direction and moved across the radarscope at speeds calculated at 7,000 mph. At 11:30 p.m., two jet fighters from Newcastle AFB in Delaware arrived over Washington. Capt. John McHugo, the flight leader, was vectored towards the radar pips but saw nothing, despite repeated attempts (Peebles, 76). However, his wingman, Lt. William Patterson, did see four white "glows" and chased them. Suddenly, the "glows" turned and surrounded his fighter. Patterson asked the control tower at National Airport what he should do; according to Chop, the tower's answer was "stunned silence". The four objects then sped away from Patterson's jet and disappeared (Clark, 659). After midnight on July 27, Major Dewey Fournet, Project Blue Book's liaison at the Pentagon, and a Lt. Holcomb, an Air Force radar specialist, arrived at the radar center at National Airport. During the night, Lt. Holcomb received a call from the Washington National Weather Station. They told him that a slight temperature inversion was present over the city, but Holcomb felt that the inversion was not "nearly strong enough to explain the 'good and solid' returns" on the radarscopes (Peebles, 76). Fournet relayed that all those present in the radar room were convinced that the targets were most likely caused by solid metallic objects. There had been weather targets on the scope too, he said, but this was a common occurrence and the controllers "were paying no attention to them." (Ruppelt, 166) Two more jets from Newcastle AFB were scrambled during the night. One pilot saw nothing unusual; the other pilot moved towards a white light which "vanished" when he closed in. A Capital Airlines flight leaving Washington spotted "odd lights" which remained visible for about twelve minutes (Clark, 660). As on July 20, the sightings and unknown radar returns ended at sunrise. And for what reason, being that wasn't the topic of the thread?
You can tell which posters are accustomed to piling on and browbeating those who utter heresies. They are probably from LP and/or FR, places where dissent from the dogma is not tolerated regardless of the evidence. You have the patience and the intellect to systematically dismantle their cheap psychological shots. I don't. I'm glad you do. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it. Otherwise they'd silence folks who don't "worship at the Dubya throne" here, too. Thanks. I simply regard it as a public service. I have a distinct dislike of false logic and disinformation. I am also aware that such is often intentionally planted to mislead, and I want people to think for themselves and be able to spot these common fallacies when they run into them. That is part of the reason our society is such a mess - people accept false verities and then act upon them, and when you draw a conclusion on false information your conclusion will be false. I do not like to see disinformation go unchallenged, and it presents an opportunity to show examples of false reasoning. My standard line is: "What is the evidence?" If one sets aside preconceptions and lets the evidence tell the story, rather than have a fixed idea, then one is more likely to arrive at the truth. As in anything in this existence there is no guarantee, but the odds are a "bit" better. However, too many people operate upon illogic and then act as though their pronouncements, arrived at by specious reasoning, are fundamental truths. I'm not a logic fetishist, as human intuition is able to bridge gaps that logic alone will not travel, however, it is a useful tool in ferreting out the truth of a matter. The reasoning often seems to go (illogically): A is true. B is associated with A. Therefore B is true. Notice the absent proof. And the reverse: A is false. B is associated with A. Therefore B is false. Same reasoning - an assumption made without any merit. So the UFO scoffers arguments invariably set up as I outlined above: An assumption, without proof, is made that all UFO reports are false, misdidentification, or the result of illusion. This unproved assumption is then used as a litmus test to discard any information to the contrary. Thus good reports are labeled bad simply because the observer assumes that there is no possibility of it being true and therefore, by Appeal To Misleading Authority anything not in agreement with the assumption is labeled false without the bother of actually thinking. This kind of reasoning is actually quite common. You run into a lot in Science, particularly in those fields that do not rely on mathematical proofs. I first got interested in the subject of false arguments because of my interest in Archaeology. There is a large and substantial body of evidence that is absolutely contrary to the accepted, in Academic circles, age of anatomically modern man, and the true antiquity of civilization on this planet. Any of this evidence contrary to the accepted view is routinely thrown out, not because of any real defect, but because it throws doubt upon the accepted Academic Fetish. Take for example the age of the Sphinx. The Sphinx and its enclosure show signs of extreme water erosion which could only result from thousands of years of heavy rainfall. Problem though, the Giza Plateau, the location of the Sphinx had it last extended period of wet weather prior to 8,000 B.C. - a time when the Giza Plateau had an arid desert climate with insufficient rainfall to account for the water erosion. Big BIG problem for academic archaeology since they place the construction of the Sphinx around 2500 B.C.. So, we have geologists, who rely upon mathematically provable principles of water erosion, and the climatological history of the region in conflict with the accepted age of the Sphinx. So, do the Academics, in accordance with proper Scientific Method, revise their thinking to accommodate the new data. Of course not. The text book says 2500 B.C. and so evidence be damned!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
But jet airliners fall out of the sky like a rock if they go as slow as 90-100mph. Your "facts" refute themselves. Or were the Little Gray Ones sneakily warping spacetime and nullifying the laws of physics? I always find it amusing to think that races of intelligent superbeings would cross interstellar distances to come here, then tease us with UFO sightings while playing coy and never actually revealing themselves. Of course, they might have a rather odd sense of humor. Or they're just waiting for their buddies to show up so they can eat us all.
Are you so dense that you think wingless craft follow the same rules as jet airliners? You also overlooked the part that estimated their speed at 7000 mph at times. By this time (9:30 p.m.) the radar center was picking up unknown objects in every sector. At times the objects traveled slowly; at other times they reversed direction and moved across the radarscope at speeds calculated at 7,000 mph. At 11:30 p.m., two jet fighters from Newcastle AFB in Delaware arrived over Washington. Capt. John McHugo, the flight leader, was vectored towards the radar pips but saw nothing, despite repeated attempts (Peebles, 76). However, his wingman, Lt. William Patterson, did see four white "glows" and chased them. Suddenly, the "glows" turned and surrounded his fighter. Patterson asked the control tower at National Airport what he should do; according to Chop, the tower's answer was "stunned silence". The four objects then sped away from Patterson's jet and disappeared (Clark, 659).
You do realize that we have scientists going to foreign countries, who tag animals for research purposes right? It could be no different than that.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
You have one of those "I WANT TO BELIEVE! posters on the wall, don't you?
They've been coming here as long as history goes back, perhaps longer. Look up ancient Sumerian history, or Hindu Vedic legends... Would you prefer they do something more akin to what you see in TV shows such as "V"? Who's to say at least some of these "visitors" aren't just from another place, but from another time, where they may even be from OUR future. That'd be the best way to record history, actually going back and seeing it happen.
Then maybe those mystery vans in Florida belong to the Little Gray Persons, not the U.N. after all.
It's not the matter of "wanting to believe", it's the matter of not being a closed minded idiot and not ignoring the evidence just because some people say "it is impossible, "everyone KNOWS that there isn't any other intelligent life in the Universe"...
Of course, it could be that you can just make up any crazy crap and spew it on the interwebby thingie. Or you might be crazy. Or an idiot. Or a scammer. Or just a gullible mark in a con game.
Not only that: "The Earth is Flat. If you sail too far you'll fall off the edge." "Of course the Sun revolves around the earth." "Rocks don't fall from the sky. It's impossible. Surely the result of delusion." "If man were meant to fly God would have given him wings. It's impossible." "Land a man on the Moon? Ridiculous! Harummph!" "Who in the world would want a personal computer? What would you do with it?" Gotta run or I'd give a few more examples.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The number of vans was extremely unusual, but I doubt it has anything to do with alien life. Unless of course the aliens HAVE taken over, and THAT is why they are killing off the human population with various means, using mind controlled politicians as their human facilitators. Still doesn't explain why they'd need vans, unless it was to round up people for a trip to some destination they'll never return from. You see, I can take what you say and look at the various possibilities, rather than dismissing it out of hand it with ridicule as is your modus operandi here.
Do you believe in Jesus?
One note: we didn't have jet-powered airliners here until 1955. Whatever propulsion system UFOs use, I don't believe it's the push (jet) or pull (propeller) systems that we use.
DEC jumped the shark on that one... :)
I do. I believe in him much more than I believe in aliens from other planets.
God is always good!
Not to get into a religious discussion here, but there is MUCH more evidence of alien life than has ever existed of Jesus being God Himself. From cave drawings, to news footage, reports from doctors, pilots, and various military personel, there IS something in the skies that is beyond "worldly" explanation. Fact is, most of the New Testament is a forgery, where the TRUE disciples of Jesus were persecuted and murdered by Rome, with the assistance of Paul, the supposed "head" of the Christian Church (Roman Catholic Church).
Oh and BTW genius, time travel IS within the realm of possibility, and the theory behind it has already been accepted as entirely plausible. Look up The Einstein-Rosen Bridge .
the “Pegasus Program” is the deployment of thousands of vehicles ["HORSES" Ezekiel 38:15] across America.... When I studied DynCorp International, I found that DynCorp and Pegasus International are basically joined at the hips with many international “joint projects”. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that DynCorp, and Pegasus are CIA FRONT COMPANIES involved in the deepest black ops. (See NanoTech expose in “Dr. Ott’s Papers” here.) Also, check this out. Dyncorp Int. was “purchased” back on April 12 by Cerberus Capital, and the “deal” was brokered by, you guessed it, Goldman Sachs who SHORTED TRANSOCEAN STOCKS on April 17, three days before the Gulf Oil debacle began. I started to reply to this hours ago. Pegasus and DynCorp set off alarm bells in my mind as well...joined at the hip....not surprised. Roman, Greek gods, Pegasus being a horse, and the name Dyn all suggest the Merovingians/Illuminati who rule from behind the scenes. The Van Duyn Bloodline Hebrew did not have vowels. Anytime you see a word containing "dan, den, din, don, dun (duyn), or dyn", you can SUSPECT a connection to the Tribe of Dan: The HORSE is one of the symbols of that tribe. Another famous one is the EAGLE, which is on the CIA logo and the seal of the US. The Lost Tribe of Dan They are the only tribe I am aware of that ever blasphemed God. They set up the golden calves to worship, and they are not recorded in Revelation 7 [nor are their brethren the tribe of Ephraim, whom the British Monarchy claims descent from] as being sealed by God. Rabbis in Israel believe they are descended from that tribe. The book of Enoch said their god was Lucifer. The Bible says that all who follow their ways and worship their god, will fall and never rise again. [Amos 8:14]. Their only hope is in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:16-29. [What was that about "the gates of hell" again? How arrogant. They will NOT prevail; if they persist they WILL fall and never rise again.] "THE VAN DUYN BLOODLINE "In 1626, Peter Minuit traded some trinkets to the Canarsie Indians to purchase Manhattan Island. The history books like to report the value of the trinkets as $24. The purchase was supposedly a good deal for the Dutch. The Canarsie Indians didn’t own Manhattan Island, it belonged to other Indians, so it is debatable who got the best deal that day. That was the beginning of the Dutch colony of New Netherlands, and its capital New Amsterdam, built beside Ft. Amsterdam, all three later renamed New York. The Van Duyn family (also spelled Van Dien, Van Duyne, et. al.) was one of the Dutch families to come over to the Dutch colony of New Netherlands which was connected to the Dutch West India Company. ...... ....A VAN DUYN & THE CIA, MI6, MOSSAD, NSA ETC. MI6 was intimately involved in the creation of the CIA and MOSSAD. And MI6 is the guiding hand behind those two organizations. British Intelligence was integrated under the title British Security Coordination which was the world’s largest and most powerful intelligence beast in the world. This beast has been under total control by the Illuminati since its beginning. Since 1940 when the BSC was set up in New York the Americans have worked for the British. But the intelligence community in the UK, USA, Canada, Australia, NZ has gone a step beyond the secret intrigue of intelligence agencies secretly controlling other intelligence agencies. They have actually signed formal agreements which completely make all these acronym monsters into one intelligence agency. There is The Technical Cooperation Program (TTCP) and the ABCA Agreement which concerns intelligence information exchange in the areas of defense research and development. The ABCA Agreement concerns military intelligence. The BRUSA Agreement on May 17, 1943 established exchange of personnel and the most intimate cooperation at the highest levels by the various national intelligence agencies of all high-grade COMINT. A Secret Treaty of 1947 linked all the major commonwealth and American intelligence groups. This is just one of countless agreements, most secret, for the exchange of information. At that point in time, levels of secrecy were ULTRA (very secret), Pearl (moderately secret), and Thumb (secret). Pearl and Thumb later became Pinup. On 17 February 1972 a National Security Council Intelligence Directive (NSCID)-6 directed the NSA to be the principal US SIGINT agency, with the FBI and CIA basically working for the NSA. Although some people are claiming that their is friction between the NSA and its front organizations the FBI & CIA, it is hard to picture that this friction is anything serious because many people in these front organizations work for the NSA. The CIA, MI6 and the Mossad all worked through the BCCI which was scandalized recently, although the elite kept the lid on the scandal. Together the UKUSA intelligence community (or what is better termed the NWO’s intelligence world-wide intelligence agency, of which MI5, MI6, CIA, NSA, FBI, NZSIS, RCMP, SIS, ASIO, GCHQ, NRO, DIA & the SASB are simply departments, have together at least 300,000 people employed full time. If there was in the 1968 time period a Van Duyn serving as the liaison between these various intelligence "departments’, he would be a very powerful man. (There is a way open to me to confirm this about a Van Duyn if I get the time.)...." Unfortunately, Fritz Springmeir is not due to get out of prison [jailed for speaking the truth] until 2012. search "gwen towers and project blue beam" and you come up with an interesting website, which I am just going to check out: http://www.abbaswatchman.com/ Anybody who doesn't believe in conspiracy fact, can go back to sleep if they want, and wait for the war plan against them to be announced on CNN or FAUX. As it was in the days of Noah, there are mockers and scoffers, who just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear. Many will be caught up in the strong delusion.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
And yet human population is at an all-time high and climbing. Apparently, the aliens aren't very good at killing us off. Isn't that what government vans are always used for? Just because someone is ridiculing whatever nonsense you're peddling doesn't mean that you're not ridiculous. This is why courts and science require some kind of evidence. Anyone can say or write anything. Evidence is a lot tougher.
Maybe it was the Little Gray Men and they just blamed it on Paul. Since you're talking about facts, it was always Peter (never Paul) who was claimed as head of the Catholic sect and the first pope.
No one has ever denied it was possible. Just that it would require vast amounts of energy, like converting all the matter in our solar system via fusion to send an object back in time a few seconds. You can effectively send objects forward in time via relativistic means if you can travel near the speed of light to slow down the passage of time on the craft.
(TC) And yet human population is at an all-time high and climbing. Apparently, the aliens aren't very good at killing us off. Some people think we're being farmed. "I offer the data. Suit yourself." So long as any evidence is ignored — however bizarre or unlikely the evidence might seem — Fort insisted that scientists' claims to thoroughness and objectivity were questionable. 'agnostic scepticism' "But my liveliest interest is not so much in things, as in relations of things. I have spent much time thinking about the alleged pseudo-relations that are called coincidences. What if some of them should not be coincidence?"
Obviously that cannot be true unless the Little Gray Men gave you a photo of our solar system from their scrapbook.
Google Images
It's an old idea. Again, where is the evidence? People can and do make up crap all the time.
I posted the picture to illustrate how big the Universe is. I think it's absurd to suppose there is no other intelligent life in the Universe. Given the size of the Universe, the probability of that is maybe zero.
It's an old idea. Again, where is the evidence? People can and do make up crap all the time. Not all the time. Some of the time they're telling the truth. ;-) You mean evidence or proof?
It's not convincing. People say this but I would like to know how they got so much experience of the universe that they know this as a fact or even as a probability. Our scientists greatly overestimate their knowledge and competence. And internet wannabes are even worse. The universe is undoubtedly far stranger than we know or could possibly imagine. As for Little Gray Men wanting to visit us, I can't imagine anything more boring. Unless we are tastier than I think.
Just because it's so big. I'm not sure about the numbers, but something like 100 Billion stars in the galaxy. Again, not exact with the numbers, but maybe 100 to 500 Billion galaxies in the Universe. You do the math. What I mean is, according to mathematical probablility, I think it is extremely unlikely that we are the only intelligent beings in the Universe. And that's an understatement. But hey, what do I know?
Out.
There's the problem. We hang out on a little ball of rock in the middle of nowhere and our scientists flatter themselves by thinking they know all about the universe. We know slightly more than our dogs or cats know about the universe. Maybe. Umm...assuming we are intelligent beings. I see little evidence of it. We haven't advanced much since leaving the caves. But the iPods are kind of nice.
That's with our CURRENT understanding of physics and the universe. Just as it would have been impossible in 1776 for the British to have developed an atom bomb to put the colonists in their place, it's impossible to develop a working time ship (or gateway) with our current technology, although the theories are sound in principle.
when can we expect your documentation of your claimed fact of most of the New Testament being a forgery?
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
I for one would like to see his work on the subject, wouldn't you?
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
maybe the delay is because of a grammar and spelling check.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Sound in principle? I guess Santa Clause is sound in principal too for some people. Unbelievable!
God is always good!
Other intelligent life? Humans intelligent? Are you kidding? I highly doubt there is any intelligent life in this whole universe, including humans. And I should know being a Mapqwelite. :>)
God is always good!
Yeah, lol, well, it looks like the dots have been connected ! Of course, this can all be verified or debunked, but if true...a sincere patriot operation of ONE man and a couple sincere friends could/might be able to torch all those tools in that lot...just sayin'.
Confirmed they are CIA front company and the vehicles have been dispersed sh#t Nevertheless, wherever any patriot with a pair of stones finds an opportunity to derail these evil BASTARDS' plans I recommend going for it...
bump
Look up The Einstein-Rosen Bridge . Einstein? Really? Are you kidding me? You can't spot a plagiarizer blowing smoke up your ass to save your life, can you? Da Jews built that boy up, real scientists laugh at that clown.
God is always good!
LOL !!
Let's face it, you're pretty CHEWISH, really...
KooK !! lol
lol Got PsyOps ? You can't change your spots...
Ah, how CHEWISH of you !
Question: Name 4 ameriKans that should be run through a wood chipper yesterday...
I'm sure this is all one GIANT oil spill induced catastrophic and mis-MANAGED DISASTER...trust your goobermint, comrade !
If UFOs aren't real, then the global governors have done a fantastic job of manufacturing them...
Your brilliant critical thinking (which honestly used to be an every day skill imo) is ONE of the many reasons I love www.freedom4um.com. Enjoy the little bit of illusionary freedom we still have, I say ! LOL
Who gives a fuck about kucinich ? Am I going to read further obsession about Dennis as I proceed ? I think I've been clear about my general distilled opinion of that socialist. That doesn't mean you can or should write off everything he puts forward. Maybe you need a Critical and Independent Thinking 301 course from an American and not some CHEWISH FIRSTER, eh ?
Individual members of the military are not allowed to give press conferences, use their position to grandstand, or create public scandal or rumors. So there is sound reason not to allow the military, a subordinate agency of the presidency, to alarm people or to create rumors or to grandstand. And they have good cause to think that at least a few of their pilots are fruitbats as well. Therefore, no independent reporting or press conferences by military pilots. I think it is and should be cause for dismissal. No company or government agency allows their employees to appoint themselves as public spokesmen unilaterally or against the interests of the company/agency. You're assembling negative proofs in a way to use them as a kind of positive evidentiary proof. This isn't possible, however you try to shave off the rough spots in your own mind. If anyone ever asks me what DICK! cheney's ass tastes like, I'll be sure to point them your way...
Any mention of mobile units, in say vans or trucks...?
Tell us again, dick cheese, about the 911 The Official Government Fairy Tale®, oh mighty Bush boner...
Dime a dozen on this interweb thing. By sheer accident, I'm sure, you've presented yourself on 4um as a CHEWISH apologist. So what credibility, exactly, do you believe you bring to US ?
Just keep watching FOX NEWS EXTRA EXTRA and we'll see how it goes...
Of course, that is exactly the kind of thing I would say if I were a disinfo specialist. They teach us how to do it in Disinformation Specialist school. I'm convinced you're a 'Disinformation Specialist' of the lowest odor...
BUMP
A primary, yet not complete, rationale for why Global Warmist World Kommunists hate US so much...
Your "facts" refute themselves. Maybe your Universe of knowledge capability is simply too narrow for you to get a handle on things...I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt but you're such a CHEWPOLOGIST that I don't know if you should be believed on the most rudimentary of subjects...
Well, that in and of itself is extremely ignorant in light of historical facts and miraculous documentations...how you could be a sentient being in this world for more than a little bit and not acknowledge God's creation is fodder for you to be marginalized and in not so polite company to be mildly ridiculed imo. You can't buy into Jesus being the Son of God / God Himself will be your personal dilemma when your shell cashes in...good luck with that.
All? Indefinite? Make up your mind. Lame. Yes, indefinite - it means some percentage unknown. It means nothing else other than the exact percentage is not known. I would say at least 5% are bonafide UFO observations. However, when you are dealing in a subject not fully explored you are always dealing in "indefinites" which are subject to change at any time with the introduction of new data. And since the government seems intent on keeping that data unknown any research is opposed and is funded personally by those doing the research. You didn't really think I was going to let you get away with such a deceptive argument did you? UFO means Unidentified Flying Object - therefore calling an unknown an unidentified "aircraft" is an unsupported assertion. We do not know what they are whether "aircraft", spacecraft, or something else. We can look at the most reliable witness reports, and the objective information such as photographs and video, and hypothesize based on the evidence. Likely some indefinite percentage are black budget "above Top Secret" aircraft but we cannot assert that ALL are. As well some of the reports, such as radar, put the speed and maneuverability of some of these objects well in advance of any known terrestrial technology. Others are of such huge size as to dwarf a Football Stadium. One sighting, by a family member of mine, was of an object so large that it covered the entire extent of the sky, over the high mountain valley we lived in, from horizon to horizon. I know of no known government craft built to that scale nor is there in evidence a propulsion system that could move such an object in total silence. A few military people have begun to speak - taken at face value it confirms that some percentage of the UFO's are in fact of non-terrestrial origin, and are well in advance of any known terrestrial technology. While there is no doubt in my mind that the most advanced technology in the black budget programs is 20 to 40 years in advance of what is spoken of publicly too many of the reports evidence an apparent technology well in advance of that which is believed to be in those black budget programs.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Thank you.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Or swamp gas or old weather balloons. Some UFO sightings have been proved to be nothing else. But not all. No doubt. I think the Air Force makes use of this to conceal tests and may instigate UFO reports so they can debunk them. It would be handy for them to have such a distracting body of work to draw upon, especially during any institutional crisis. Maybe the gooberment has a projection technology to create such atmospheric effects. Or a resonance generator that induces hallucinations that follow a familiar cultural trajectory in those exposed to it. Too many? How many of these reports becomes "too many"? What is the threshold? One hundred? Five thousand? You speak as though a certain threshold has been passed without defining what the threshold is or what the criteria is for judging the standard to have been met. You keep trying to jump from speculation to wudi's corner where you end up citing statistical improbabilities despite the fact we know very little about the universe or even our own galaxy. We have quite a lot of vanity considering how little we actually do know. And scientists have a professional and financial stake in elevating their claims to knowledge, no different than the old tribal witch doctors did. If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?
Only four? That is tough.
Don't bad-mouth Santa.
What if those UFOs are real and they're full of Jews? Next thing you know, they'll land in the District and demand dual-citizenship. And as soon as our gooberment gives in and gives them dual-citizenship, then the Gay Niggers From Outer Space will show up.
Yahowshua? LOL.
The Essenes carried the message of Jesus. The Truth. The Word of God. Something to be taken seriously.
Apparently you don't know the name of Jesus in Hebrew. Are you even a Christian? Have you ever read up on Einstein-Rosen Bridges? Check it out when you understand enough Calculus and Physics to grasp it. I bet you think atoms are just pixie dust too, right?
First off, do you have proof it is 100% factual? Maybe 50%? 10%? Here's some info for you... Ping to above post.
You are one dumb shit Ricky. Are you too lazy to use Google?
I believe there is a God, not some man-god that the leadership of Rome dreamed up after killing all of the REAL person's followers. The TRUE God is beyond anything that any human being can understand, as God existed and exists beyond this Universe, and is not some guy who riled up the Romans 2000 years ago.
The way I look at it Rotara, is that if all these people who scream and shout the name of Jesus were truly blessed and righteous, our world wouldn't be in the predictiment it's currently in. For as long as history records events from the time of the birth of the Roman Catholic Church, it has proved to be nothing but a front for evil doers who claim to be following the word of their God. If there WERE anything to it beyond fantastical stories made up by those who wished to corral and control the populace, there would have been divine intervention preventing the church leaders from perpetrating the sort of evil they committed in Jesus' name.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
That's how the URL shows it. The webpage seems to think that Christianity is about vegetarianism.
Well, they probably wouldn't until very recently even know we exist. Prior to radio/television we were an invisible little planet, cosmically speaking. Now we give off enough radio power to look like a friggin' pulsar, and anybody with a telescope and radio measuring device would say "now why, oh why, is a small yellow sun giving off so many radio waves like that?". Were I an alien astronomer, that would fixate me on our system like white on rice. And probably the rest of my alien astronomy community as well. Why people think the earth was visited prior to radio propagation is beyond me. Imagine the unbelievable effort required to explore another solar system (everything boils down to economics, if you take economics to mean a measurement of action in a society). If you were to invest so heavily in extra solar exploration, would you take random pot shots in a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars, or would you go for the ones that looked like yellow sun pulsars? For my money, I'd go with the low hanging fruit first. Simply picking random suns and then "gosh, a planet with life" seems highly unlikely no matter how sophisticated the technology in question. As to "why would they be interested in humans", that's easy. For the same reasons we'd be interested in them. It may well be a human conceit that superior technology breeds arrogance. But even that conceit is challenged these days, witness explorers using ginger touches and soft white gloves when dealing with isolated tribes they encounter now and again. Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion. Who knows, ultimately, what would motivate an alien civilization?
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Didn't Steven Hawking recently come out saying that we shouldn't be eager to contact another civilization since it might be malevolent?
Hawking seems to be on the "anti-explore" bandwagon for some reason. Chances are, knowing another civilization is out there doesn't mean that we can *get* to it, or they to us. Imagine the year 800 AD. An Indian warrior toss notes in leather bottles into the ocean. Thousands of miles away, some guy named Aelfelbert in a place called Land Of The Angles finds the bottle, reads the note, has no real friggin' clue what it is or what it means but knows it's from another person far away, and he has no way to get over there to check. In a response he writes down a few words from Beowulf on a sheet of papyrus (tha was god cynnig!), wraps it up back into the leather bottle, and tosses it back into the ocean. Whether that bottle ever makes it back to Squanto in Massachusetts is a matter of pure slim chance. To me, that's what interstellar awareness of, and communication with, other civilizations will probably end up looking like, given the distances and limitations imposed by the speed of light. Just speculation of course. Maybe life is teeming out there, using communications we just don't grok yet, and it's one giant galactic version of Vegas going on. If so, sign me up!
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
We just don't know enough about what we don't know. What if those other lifeforms could hiberate and/or send generational ships. When they showed up here a hundred or a thousand years from now, they might not be too friendly. As an entree at the buffet table?
I'm not a huge fan of the notion "don't explore, you might get hurt", to be honest. Be cautious, yes, but to stop the spirit of exploration, you might as well just nuke us and call us done as a species.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
The words of men, written by men, specificially Paul of Tarsus, along with some help from Roman authors. The true Jesus (YAHSHUA) was an Essene, and taught the opposite of what Paul of Tarsus wrote. Read the link I posted if you wish to know more.
Wrong, the website uses the Hebrew name for Jesus, which is Yahshua, not Yahowshua as you irreverently stated. As far as vegetarianism, that is the lifestyle the Nazarenes (Essenes) followed as they did not believe a creature should die in order for it to be used as food. Jesus was an Essene.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
But the link is: http://www.essene.org/Yahowshua_or_Paul.htm They can't even name the page consistent with the article. And you have to be an ignoramus to think that any of this ancient Hebrew even had vowels in it. Yet, you see a lot of magic-namism in some circles where they keep inventing various spellings to somehow give the impression that they know the true secret pronunciation and spelling of these ancient biblical names. But we don't know that. Piffle. You can assemble no evidence for it that passes musters with any scholars. This is your own idiosyncratic view, probably based on reading obscure web pages. Gee, let me guess, you're a vegetarian and think that you have a vegetarian god as well?
As you said, it's probably too late. We've been blaring our existence since the Twenties. An invasion fleet may already be inbound. It might be preceded by unmanned craft designed to seed our planet with lifeforms to start an ecology more friendly to alien invaders.
It's simply an essay using historical facts.
Let me guess, you believe your Pastor is the word of God, and that you have a firm grasp on events that happened 2000 years ago. Yet you call ME a nut because I state the obvious in terms of UFOs. Learn something other than what your TV evangelist pounds into you, Google the word Yahshua, and explore if you dare.
Oh, so I suppose Jesus isn't a real name either, since it has vowels. It must be Jss then, eh?
Why was Margaret Meade interested in studying a remote primitive tribe on an isolated island? Why doe any Anthropologist study other cultures and races? Your question presumes something not in evidence and I don't have to posit the "Theory of Realtivity" to observe the existence of an unexplained phenomena. Unexplained is by definition unexplained - yet. As for the rest of your post you are just throwing shit against the wall hoping some of it will stick. I do not claim to have all the answers. My only assertions are: A. There is an unexplained phenomena that has been observed by hundreds of thousands to millions of people. Many of the observers have no apparent pecuniary motivation and are of known sound mind and reputation. B. The phenomena observed e.g., velocities measured in thousands of miles per hour, rapid changes in direction, lights, etc., are not explainable in terms of any known terrestrial technology. Attempts to explain it away are just that - avoidance and attempts to explain away information that might actually result in a view of the universe different than the one a person with an open mind begins with. C. The Federal Government has, by all appearances, followed a program of cover-up, denial, and disregard of the phenomena which is contradicted by leaked documents and testimony of people in government service of an intense interest in the phenomena. This is evidenced by the multiple staged events to tell the sheeple "go back to sleep and continue grazing" e.g., (the most well known) the multiple cover stories and denials over an apparent crash site at Roswell, New Mexico. D. As for the reports. Read them yourself. Many are available on line and the data is what the data is. It is not what people's preferred preconceptions or world view would prefer it to be. I already gave you a starting link and I will repeat it again for your edification and enlightenment: Sightings Website. However, the old saw about "there is none so blind as he who will not see" would seem to apply. You have reached a conclusion, absent any data to support it, and are simply throwing up objections and diversions rather than examining the data. That's fine, it's an old tradition called "closed mindedness". You are perfectly welcome to your point of view. I do not share it, and I would encourage all intelligent and curious people to examine the data rather than to dismiss without inspection. Although dismissing without looking does offer one great advantage - you are never at risk of learning anything which might upset your preconceptions.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Written without vowels, yep. The few mentions of Jesus, like the story about Him related to Nero, garble his name even more badly which isn't hard to understand. I always assumed ancient Hebrew didn't have vowels because writing materials were so precious. You had to read the vowels in the context of being an ancient Jew who was already familiar with the stories and their context and history. But we don't have an unbroken chain of speakers of ancient Hebrew to decipher it with. So I don't think we know the real pronunciations of a great many words. Same applies to Aramaic and some of the Greek dialects.
So you would accept the miraculous claims of seeing Marian apparitions by Catholics? How about miraculous claims made by other religions (that always support their religion)? I don't think you really practice this. There are lots of ways for radar to give false readings and ghosts. Even more if you have some prankster or disinformation group pranking you. Anyone can say this when others refuse to believe their favored accounts of events. Dime a dozen.
More on this. A little history is in order. As you probably know, we have the name Jehovah from the YHVH of ancient Hebrew. And, BTW, they still can't prove whether it is YHVH or YHWH. You'd think that the name of the Father would be more of a settled matter but obviously there were ancient variants of the Unspeakable Name. So you may ask why we say Jehovah instead of Yehovah or Yehowah. Well, when the translators were translating the Old Testament, they translated to the Old English equivalent of Y which was spelled J in German and Anglo-Saxon. So the two Y's became two J's. Then they filled in vowels but with no real convincing phonetic reasons based on firm knowledge of ancient pronunciations. So YHVH (or YHWH) becomes Jehovah, the guy the whole bible was written about. And you want to claim such certainties about pronunciation? You sure about that?
Or...not. It's probably a bit silly to presume absolute benevolence or absolute evil. Life rarely works out that way. Even forest fires seed the next generation of trees in some forests. And I suspect that this is nothing you, nor I, nor our great grandchildren will have to worry about regardless of the encounter(s) per se, if there are any. For all we know, we might be the apex aggressive predator species in the galaxy and just haven't made it off this rock to discover it yet.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
True enough. An alien species seems likely to be completely unlike us biologically. We have a certain biped bias in our imaginings of aliens because Hollyweird had all those bad sci-fi movies with people dressed up to look like aliens. Alien life is likely far more alien than we can imagine. A scenario like Independence Day is not unlikely. It's the kind of thing we would do if we were capable of it, at least judging by how we behaved during the European colonial era and during the present era of the American empire and its neocolonialism.
lol It does.
What if those UFOs are real and they're full of Jews? Next thing you know, they'll land in the District and demand dual-citizenship. And as soon as our gooberment gives in and gives them dual-citizenship, then the Gay Niggers From Outer Space will show up. Did you hear the one about the two aliens circling the Earth in a UFO? One alien turns to the other and says, "This really IS a primitive planet. They haven't even exterminated their Jews yet!"
Could be, but then it could also be that most if not all creatures elsewhere in the Universe take on a form similar to us or other animals on Earth due to the development based on rules or laws of fractal geometry. Maybe they're not bipeds necessarily but grow as one cell then divide and then those two cells divide and so on... It should be very, very surprising if of all the solar systems in the Universe (maybe 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) we are the only one inhabited by life of any sort.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Good retort! Did you make that one up just for this occasion? Heh-heh.
The vast majority of star systems are not like ours. They have different elements, an entirely unknown chemistry and physics to us. If you read the astronomers, they discuss this sometimes, just how little we know about even the variety of chemistries and physics out there. And so we might be a most unusual area of the universe, a total freak of nature. And therefore entirely alone in the universe. Maybe God only works with a few planets at once. Or just one. Even in our own solar system, we are freakish. If the orbit of earth was slightly different, if the Van Allen belt weren't there, et cetera then there would be no life here at all. Life even here is obviously a miracle, even by our own very limited knowledge. It is so unlikely that you can almost prove we can't exist. And they might be intelligent gases. Or balls of plasma that inhabit a sun. Or microbes that work together in a communal life form. Or giant worms. Or very bright shrimp. Chances are that they are far more different from us than like us. The same sheer numbers you cite to support your argument tends toward that conclusion.
I don't even consider the RCC; or any man made religion for that matter...Jesus came to abolish religion and create relationship with the Living God Almighty directly.
What if those UFOs are real and they're full of Jews? Next thing you know, they'll land in the District and demand dual-citizenship. And as soon as our gooberment gives in and gives them dual-citizenship, then the Gay Niggers From Outer Space will show up. What if they were manufactured by the Jew Kommunist World Orderists / Banksters / Information - Global War Mongers ? Would that be close enough ??
"If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?" As with all ugly minorities they're after our beautiful white wimmen. What else? "Why was Margaret Meade interested in studying a remote primitive tribe on an isolated island?" Meade actually departed from the discipline of science and attempted to prove that tribal intelligence (such as head shrinking skills and insect soup recipes) are equal to the study of particle physics, but our bigotry and false belief in our superiority blinded us to the proper ways to compare them and us. I suspect that alien visitors use us the way we use frogs to teach biology 101, or they make fertilizer out of our precious bodily fluids as depicted in the latest remake of WAR OF THE WORLDS.
Just because it's so big. I'm not sure about the numbers, but something like 100 Billion stars in the galaxy. Again, not exact with the numbers, but maybe 100 to 500 Billion galaxies in the Universe. You do the math. What I mean is, according to mathematical probablility, I think it is extremely unlikely that we are the only intelligent beings in the Universe. And that's an understatement. But hey, what do I know? And recently the number of Galaxies has expanded yet again as more were discovered to exist than previously thought. It is not unlikely that numbers of galaxies may number in the trillions. What's a billion times a trillion? A number so big that it loses meaning, and yet that is the number of stars in the known universe. So far, every star that astronomers have been able to look at closely enough has planets. Even if we limit the possibility of habitable planets to only Type G Yellow Dwarfs, in the main sequence, much like our own then there are likely millions of habitable planets in our galaxy alone. Of course not having explored other Star Systems yet we do not know for a fact that only Type G Yellow Dwarfs have habitable planets. I can see a Blue Star having habitable planets, but just further out from the star. Ditto Red Stars, but closer to the fire. It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
As with all ugly minorities they're after our beautiful white wimmen. What else? "Why was Margaret Meade interested in studying a remote primitive tribe on an isolated island?" Meade actually departed from the discipline of science and attempted to prove that tribal intelligence (such as head shrinking skills and insect soup recipes) are equal to the study of particle physics, but our bigotry and false belief in our superiority blinded us to the proper ways to compare them and us. I suspect that alien visitors use us the way we use frogs to teach biology 101, or they make fertilizer out of our precious bodily fluids as depicted in the latest remake of WAR OF THE WORLDS. Or it simply might be that by pure chance we were located at an interstellar crossroads, and the visitors are just stopping to gawk at the natives. I do admit I always find it amusing when someone, such our erstwhile interlocutor, asserts some version of the "we're the only intelligent life in the universe and this is the only inhabited planet, line of reasoning. It has no foundation other than an unwillingness to look at the available data and drawing a logical conclusion. However, who ever said the human race is logical?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Nice ass kicking, O_I! May I suggest that this is a good place to add "limited, parochial, provincial and egocentric view" in the future?
As with all ugly minorities they're after our beautiful white wimmen. What else? Genesis 6:1-2
Ouch. I didn't say it like that.
So you would accept the miraculous claims of seeing Marian apparitions by Catholics? How about miraculous claims made by other religions (that always support their religion)? I don't think you really practice this. B. The phenomena observed e.g., velocities measured in thousands of miles per hour, rapid changes in direction, lights, etc., are not explainable in terms of any known terrestrial technology. Attempts to explain it away are just that - avoidance and attempts to explain away information that might actually result in a view of the universe different than the one a person with an open mind begins with. There are lots of ways for radar to give false readings and ghosts. Even more if you have some prankster or disinformation group pranking you. C. The Federal Government has, by all appearances, followed a program of cover-up, denial, and disregard of the phenomena which is contradicted by leaked documents and testimony of people in government service of an intense interest in the phenomena. This is evidenced by the multiple staged events to tell the sheeple "go back to sleep and continue grazing" e.g., (the most well known) the multiple cover stories and denials over an apparent crash site at Roswell, New Mexico. Anyone can say this when others refuse to believe their favored accounts of events. Dime a dozen. As usual your logic is faulty. For a comparison to be valid it must compare like to like. I did not bring up religious visions but an observed, seen by more than one person at a time in many instances, phenomena which can be photographed. Again you are simply evading the issue and attempting to divert by raising elements not appropriate or related to the discussion. The following is simply more of the same illogic and an avoidance of any actual substance. Name them - the false ways of course. Then demonstrate factually that is what has occurred in every report by a qualified operator. An operator who is a professional and aware of the phenomena of electronic artifacts and knows what it looks like. You are clutching at straws and simply avoiding issues. Rather than looking at the data and making a determination on the data you parrot the disinformation lines simply trying to cast doubt all the while cackling like Mark Twain's hen that laid an asteroid. And again a diversion not addressing any issue or proving a point - simply an attempt to blunt a point which you cannot refute. My Comment: Your reply: Which refutes nothing and logically boils down to "Nyah, nyah; nyah, nyah". Very insigtful. NOT! It should be apparent to anyone reading this thread that your mind is made up and you do not wish to be confused with facts. That's fine. You are welcome to believe or disbelieve anything you wish. However, your "beliefs" are not founded in fact, and your entire argument simply amounts to denying that there are any facts. Basically it is simply a variation on rule #9 in the rules of disinformation: 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. Source: Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Nice ass kicking, O_I! May I suggest that this is a good place to add "limited, parochial, provincial and egocentric view" in the future? Thank you, I stand corrected - provincial is most apt in this context. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Even when presented with a specimen of a duck-billed platypus the great minds of London who sponsored the expedition refused to believe that it was anything but a hoax. Faced with the choice of re-writing their classifications or savaging an honest man's reputation, the sheer arrogance in their belief that they knew all there was to know about genus and species left them no choice... "A venomous, fur bearing, duck-billed, beaver-tailed, otter-footed mammal that lays eggs? You gotta be pulling our baloney..." they insisted. Beware the self styled omniscient (how else can one describe those who make sweeping statements about the totality of life in the universe?) for they will arrange a fatal accident for you (tamper with your brakes) to avoid admitting their human fallibility. And their arrogance is multiplied by the anonymity the net affords them because if proven wrong they can disappear. Shortly after new members arrive with screen names such as "American Gothic" and "I'm From MO-Show ME". And in no time at all you'll be blind sided for statements that are not particularly controversial. If you think of it as angry, nit picking cheap shots by those who'll never forgive you for underscoring their ignorance it will make sense.
Ouch. I didn't say it like that. What can I say? My patience is wearing thin. We keep seeing the same disinformation points, and avoidance, and after a while it simply becomes tiresome and repetitive. That is why I generally avoid much discussion on the topic as the scoffers and disinfo artists are sooooooooooo unoriginal. If the topic comes up, and there is one around, invariably you see the same avoidance, disparagement, and attempts to avoid facts. They will not look, they will not evaluate individual reports, and they are uninterested in having relief from their ignorance and narrow mindedness. Which is fine, but I do not have to treat robotic replies with any more dignity than they merit.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Nicely said and all too true. I still have never received a reply from Alan Chapman and it has been 2 1/2 years. ;-) Parallel to your example would be the experience of Dr. Harvey who first mapped the circulatory system, demonstrating the heart was a pump, and being publicly pilloried and villified for doing so. "I would rather err with Galen than be right with Harvey." There are plenty of historical examples of the resistance to ideas that force people to rethink their world view. Much simpler to just "burn the heretic". It requires much less thought.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Google has all your answers doesn't it? Talk about lazy! Just as the current power structure has built up the myth of human caused global warming, those before them built up the myth of Einstien's genius and time travel. You can't tell truth from reality because you rely on others to do your thinking for you. Scientists are not any more moral than a used car salesman. They can and do say anything you want them to say for money.
God is always good!
Pardon my ignorance. Although I have an imaginary friend that I met on LSD some 40 years ago, I don't look to him for spiritual renewal or guidance. So, needless to say I don't read The Bible (in all its many forged revisions) and I avoid the Old Testament just as I would a dusty Kabbala manuscript written in blood. Please explain the significance of this chapter and verse? But, hey, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not against hedging my bets so my medic alert necklace says "No Code-Do Not Resuscitate" and "Please ask God to forgive my sins and tell him that I accept Jesus as my savior before I expire". If I can squeeze into Heaven at the last minute with this cheep(sic) insurance policy (and no one mentions it if I died while being ridden in a reverse cowgirl by a young nigra hoe) then fine. A minor concession while unconscious won't bother me, especially if I didn't have to donate to some pompadour wearing preacher's corporation or modify my lifestyle, i.e. stop singing "The Devil's music!"
You assume we are anything close to intelligent. The evidence is awfully thin for it. We are little removed from cavemen with clubs and enough knowledge to start a fire.
Now that is some super ass kicking! "Much simpler to just "burn the heretic". It requires much less thought." Galileo supposedly uttered, "Nevertheless it did move" while on his knees before the Church accepting his punishment. I relate to katz like that.
a video about the 'disclosure project' you can find here: freepressinternational.com/ about 3/4 of the way down
Intelligence is a relative and fundamental concept. It could be defined for members of the nekton group as "having evolved enough to solve the problem of staying off the ocean floor". No offense but you seem to be trying to derail the chat with a pointless non-sequitur.
It should be apparent to anyone reading this thread that your mind is made up and you do not wish to be confused with facts. Ah, so what have we learned on this thread then? BTW, were you ever going to offer any opinion on the supposed U.N. vans in the Florida air park? Or are you just here to hijack the thread? Hey, maybe those vans belong to E.T., how about that?
"On Wednesday, May 9th, 2001, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC to establish the reality of UFOs or extraterrestrial vehicles, extraterrestrial life forms, and resulting advanced energy and propulsion technologies. The weight of this first-hand testimony, along with supporting government documentation and other evidence, will establish without any doubt the reality of these phenomena." _________________________ Well, our severe and unsympathetic critics (like Turtle) weren't there, and like an ostrich with its head in the sand (or in Turtle's case buried elsewhere) the looming threat in the form of a predator (or to someone's primitive superstitions/religious beliefs) simply doesn't exist if it isn't seen.
There is no evidence for this myth. Kind of like the story about Washington and the cherry tree.
To any race capable of star-travel, we would be animals. Not cute or cuddly ones either.
It should be apparent to anyone reading this thread that your mind is made up and you do not wish to be confused with facts. Ah, so what have we learned on this thread then? * UFOs have visited Shirley MacLaine, Dennis Kucinich and possibly you as well. * Your family member has seen a UFO big enough to cover a mountain valley from horizon to horizon. * Government radar systems are incapble of error or being spoofed (despite the common knowledge that radar is easy to spoof and that weather routinely causes all kinds of false radar readings during inversions and other weather situations). * You feel persecuted by diabolical forces if anyone doubts your pet theories for which you can muster no evidence whatsoever. And you still think we should look for intelligent life on other planets? LOL. Maybe you should try to find some here on Earth first. BTW, were you ever going to offer any opinion on the supposed U.N. vans in the Florida air park? Or are you just here to hijack the thread? Hey, maybe those vans belong to E.T., how about that? Yawn. Back to disinfo mode I see. Logical Fallacies Violated: Guilt by Association: I don't recall mentioning Shirley McClaine, and whether she claims to have seen one or not refutes what part of the evidenciary record? Did I make that assertion? No. Fallacies Violated: Argumentum Ad Hominem Of course as a skilled disinformationist you avoided stating a position of your own and engaged logical fallacies to camouflage the omission. So, you intentionally try to create the impression, falsely, that all anomalous Radar tracks, by skilled operators, are in error - without of course bothering to present any proof of that assertion. Scary stuff this Radar, why every day we have thousands of lives at risk of the unreliable displays of this quirky device. Gosh I'll bet there were at least a hundred mid-air collisions today. Right? We need to tell Air Traffic Controllers nationwide to immediately cease relying upon this quirky and unreliable contraption. As both a Radar Operator and Sonar Operator I can tell you that it is part of the training to be able to recognize spurious blips and electronic artifacts. Yawn. Now you presume to tell me what I think. And it is not MY pet theory, it is a position shared by a great many people. In fact I do believe everyone on this thread except you. Do you feel persecuted for holding a position which you have supported with nothing more substantial than logical fallacies and disinformation tactics? One which is itself regarded as contrary to what the body of evidence supports? And I am not your research librarian. I long ago gave up posting proofs for scoffers and shills. If you want to examine the available mountains of evidence honestly well I have twice given you a link to a good website to use as a starting point. Just to show what a magnanimous and big hearted kind of guy I am here it is again: Sightings.com. And as I have told you at least twice before on this thread you are welcome to believe whatever you wish. You can ignore and avoid the data to your heart's content, and I frankly don't give a damn. Just don't continue to pee on my foot and then try and convince me it's raining. Another disinfo tactic/logical fallacy: Two items, unsupported, which are disrelated and as such prove nothing. Nothing that is other than you appear incapable of constructing a rational argument that does not rely on personal attacks. Why is that? Why is it that you continue to use the tactics of a disinformation specialist? Is that your specialty? Disinformation that is? ROFLMFAO! I think it was about 60 or 70 posts ago I graciously conceded that you are welcome to believe whatever you wish, just as I am quite capable of holding my own views, based upon the mountains of evidence you refuse to look at or acknowledge, and feel no compulsion whatsoever to share your viewpoint, whatever it may be given the confused mishmash of your arguments. Do have a nice day.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
To any race capable of star-travel, we would be animals. Not cute or cuddly ones either. And your proof of that assertion is?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Radar and sonar. My, my. And what job did you have that provided professional training in both? BTW, among these UFO accounts are reports of planes chasing down spurious radar blips which proved to be the images of a ship on the water which were reflected due to a double-inversion. Since you like these eyewitness accounts so much (unless they conflict with one of your pet theories). Ah, very generous of you. I see. Lack of mere evidence doesn't rattle your certainties at all.
It had built up over a couple other threads with varied exchanges. That was supposed to be his magnum opus which would totally refute my position. Do you think I was too harsh on him. ;-) So it is reputed. They put him under house arrest for the rest of his life as well.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Not at all. I demonstrated adequately that your beliefs are faith-based and that you can produce no evidence whatsoever. I am well satisfied with it.
I feel, and am not under, no compulsion to waste my time looking up and posting data which you would promptly ignore. If you wish to relieve yourself of your ignorance then fine. If not then fine. I am quite ambivalent upon the matter. I gave you the link. What you do with it is your prerogative. I am not going to waste time doing your homework for you as your personal belief is a matter of some indifference to me.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Not at all. I demonstrated adequately that your beliefs are faith-based and that you can produce no evidence whatsoever. We weren't talking about my comments to you - it was regarding an earlier debate with someone else - unless you used to post as "Alan Chapman". You need to learn to read more carefully before inserting your foot.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Right. So "ambivalent" you had to hijack an entire thread because I made a one-liner crack and a little photo of nutjob two-face Comrade Kucinich. But, yeah, I can see how "ambivalent" you are. It's so obvious really.
Thousands of UN Vehicles and Tons of Equipment Masking At Florida Airbase? UPDATE
I thought you were referring to me since you had directed so many posts my way.
Right. So "ambivalent" you had to hijack an entire thread because I made a one-liner crack and a little photo of nutjob two-face Comrade Kucinich. But, yeah, I can see how "ambivalent" you are. It's so obvious really. I am not ambivalent to the use of false logic and disinformation tactics, which is what you were doing in that post (#15 on this thread). I objected then, and now, to the false assertion that an objective view of the UFO phenomena, or having sighted one, perforce makes one a kook, and your argument to that affect was dishonest and logically fallacious.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And now that they're gone, no one can prove whether they were U.N. or just surplus vehicles that Kia couldn't get sold in a slow economy. Did Gortz (or his mysterious friend Klaatu) ever consider asking the management who owned them, why they were there. No, that would be too obvious, wouldn't it? That is exactly what They (a.k.a. THEM) would want you to do. But we can fight back, can't we, by posting a few more hysterical webpages with no evidence of anything on them, just a bunch of wild accusations. I guess it's an update, sort of. Hey, maybe the U.N. vans went to where they keep the Black Helicopters. Maybe Gortz could go check into that. Still, thanks for the update. It is more info than we had when the thread started. I first heard about these vans over six months ago. Maybe we will yet find out who owns them and where they went. I'd just like to know, having seen a number of these U.N.-killer-van threads.
I can't tell whether I'm an ignoramus resisting the golden light of your truth (although you are indifferent to such petty matters) or if I am a "disinformation specialist" who you are battling with all your might. I don't think I can be both, at least not credibly.
I didn't ask for a rerun of a link I want to see your documentation of the claim you made.
No links...just a recounting of what I read. Several parts of I-20 in Alabama with those exit ramp barricades were in effect... Traffic back ups for miles.. And at every barricade their were some of those unmarked white vans... These may not be the same vans... Then again I do not think it is a coincidence. People in florida are starting to get sick. Some have had lung failure. MSM has not reported on it but then again they are not reporting on the sick either. And with Hurricane Alex pushing the storm surge in everywhere.... Those folks that have not left yet may be moved in those white Vans.
LOL! Yeah, it would be great to find some intelligent life here on Earth. But so far all I see is dumb and dumber. Sure there are spirits, angels and demons, maybe that is what these people are seeing and not realizing it since they are convinced in their heart that there is no God or no devil. I don't say their mind, because no one is that dumb to not know we were created, they just reject it with all their heart.
God is always good!
(HD)As with all ugly minorities they're after our beautiful white wimmen. What else? (Moi)Genesis 6:1-2 TooConservative asked wtf the aliens would want to do with us. You said they're after our white wimmen. I quoted a verse from the Old Testament saying Exactly that. Genesis 6:1-2 6-1 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 6-2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose. This verse imo refers to aliens mating with humans. (Male aliens mating with female humans.)(or aliens injecting female humans with their DNA) So we are alien hybrids. Which would explain why we are so very different from every single one of all the species on the planet. It is a theme of every Religion on the planet too.
Not from Mexico. lol
Says who? The Roman Catholic Church effectively became the new Roman Empire, and ruled the Western World for close to 2000 years. Dissent was not allowed, and was met with torture and death.
Is nuclear fission and fusion also a myth? Just because SOME political pressure is placed upon those with a Phd next to their name doesn't mean science is nothing but politicial BS, just as not all preachers are a bunch of money scanvenging vultures eager to fleece the gullible. Einstein isn't the only person to have theorized about worm holes, there are many who carried on with his thoughts and gone much further. That you believe science is the same as selling used cares indicates you aren't very well educated.
Ok, who do YOU think wrote the New Testament?
Ok, since you insist, here's some info for you to digest. I've heard several different speculations to explain our rather strange planet. Two of the more interesting are: 1. That we are the interstellar equivalent of "Botany Bay" i.e., a Penal Colony where all the trouble makers are shipped to. It certainly fits the obstreperous humanity on this planet. 2. That we are an experiment - thus explaining all the different races each of which originated on another planet and so we have our mixed mass of humanity of different types. We are being observed to see how it works out.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I watched a very interesting video about this. It had to do with the Bible and the Freemason literature of Albert Pike I think (others too maybe you know how my memory is). So they're talking about a "secret"... the secret is not in the freemason literature but in the bible. It speaks of the secret in the literature but specifies that the actual secret can only be found in the bible. It goes on to refer to symbology, numerology and several Bible verses. I wish you could watch it. noone222 posted it a while back. One has to look past the heavy religious preaching, but there's some very interesting data in that video. Impossible to deny maybe. Actually, I find this plausible in light of the lost technology of the pyramids and other reasons.
I see no reason why he should be offended by a straightforward post of the truth. Unfortunately, I sense that he practices self deception in order to nip and tuck inconvenient truths into irrelevance in order to reconcile them with his understanding of the natural order.
It seems to me like everything points to it one way or another.
Ah, you mean alien aliens. ;)
LOL. Seriously though, we are quite intelligent as a species. The range of intelligence varies, but even your average Special Olympics participant is light years ahead of our closest relatives, chimps and bonobos, intellectually. It's all good fun to consider ourselves "dumb", but end of the day "dumb" doesn't build skyscrapers, space craft or nanobots, or even mundane things like canteens. And "dumb" certainly doesn't contemplate the meaning of life, or the state of matter occupied by light, as a leisure activity while toying around on computers it built which perform millions of precise mathematical calculations every half second.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
And how do we view the aborigines or the isolated uncivilized human tribes? A starfaring race would consider us quaint at best. Or just a delicious entree. Hollyweird has managed to generally create an idea of benevolent aliens in most people's minds.
Sorry, how are we so different from all the other species of animals on the planet? Genetically we're nearly identical to chimps, bonobos, and we're pretty damned close to the other major great apes as well. Heck, we share a lion's portion of DNA with animals even as "low" on the ladder as lizards and fish. Our brains are constructed like every other great ape's brain, only with more development and folds and size. Heck, disappear humans today this second and 2 million years from now I wouldn't bet against another line of great apes walking in our shoes in the self awareness department (heck, some chimps are self aware, so the battle is nearly fought before its started). It seems absolutely in line with how primates function, we just happened to win the race first. Heck, go even further back and you can find intelligence developing in other animals. It seems to be the very nature of this planet, at least since the dinosaurs were wiped out, and even then there's some pretty interesting theories on the intelligence of raptors (and their only direct living descendants, birds). Goldfish, for goodness sake, are more intelligent than we realize and can learn and be trained and have persistent memory, which sounds like no big deal for, say, a dog, but for a goldfish? That's startling. Nah, my friend, we fit into this planet perfectly. Our blood is sea water, our physique perfectly in line with how other animals developed, and our intellect in line with the general evolutionary thrust of this planet for countless eons. In fact there is no way we *do not* fit here that would make us dissimilar to other species, if one takes the full scope of evolutionary history into account. While I have no opinion on "alien intervention" (well, I do, but you may not like it), our presence here is easily seen to be a pretty predictable walk down the path of evolution, in my view.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
That simply has nothing to do with whether we're intelligent or not. Intelligence does not guarantee a "moral" or benign outcome, nor an amoral or evil outcome. Even the very concept of pondering things like "how do we see..." displays intellect that you'll never, ever encounter in any other living species. Or, an interesting discovery of a new culture and civilization which they'd wish to learn about. I don't know about you, but if you placed me back on continental Europe in the year 300 AD I'd be fascinated to study the indigenous Celtic populations. Sure, they wouldn't have microcomputers or cars or nuclear bombs or stealth aircraft or moon faring space ships, but their technological level would have nothing to do with their innate intelligence, culture, poetry, art or other interesting things. I'd be no better than them from a "superiority" standpoint, just because I came from a point in time that had all of the artifacts I mentioned. And that's just human to human. Think of all of the exploration and study you could do, intellectually, with an entirely different self aware intelligent alien species! All of your assumptions would be challenged, everything would seem new by observing them, and your perceptions of the universe would be expanded. Technological advancement is not the panacea of intellectual measurement, iow. "Aliens" can be on the same intellectual level as us, but have a couple of thousand more years head start on technology, and their technology would look like magic to us. But, again, their intellectual level would be the same. Maybe they'd be benign, or not, or simply neutral. We, for example, have learned somewhat from our encounters with each other over the centuries. We're still struggling, but that doesn't mean we haven't learned. I suspect the same would apply to "them" only with some more time under their belts.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
Life then was generally pretty crude. I don't think you'd find it so charming after a few months. Or a few days. And how often has that happened here when Europeans met up with primitive tribes? You have a few like Sir Richard Burton at the fringes that no one pays much attention to. And the superior culture conquers the inferior over and over. You wish to believe they would share a simian curiosity, like ours. That would be almost impossible. A starfaring race would of necessity have entirely different qualities and values from our own. You should assume they are far more different than like us. The reason we don't pick up radio traffic from other civilizations may be telling. What if a predator race is out there, just waiting to pounce on any radio signal source? Those old reruns of I Love Lucy could have summoned an invasion fleet, already inbound to us. The SETI project raises interesting questions. Since development of radio is so fundamental to technology, why don't we hear from other civilizations, their Lucy reruns at least? Or their Rush Limbaugh? That silence points to an empty universe. Or, less likely, to predator race(s) waiting to pounce on radio signals. I think an empty universe is more likely despite all the folks on this thread ranting over billions upon billions upon billions of stars, like some bad version of Carl Sagan. Let's grant that there are millions or billions or even trillions of galaxies for the sake of argument. Again, if this is so, then the numerical argument made that life must be common Out There turns against those who assume there must be intelligent life out there. If there are so many planets with intelligent life, we should have an E.T. channel on cable already with the E.T. version of I Love Lucy reruns. I suspect life, as it is on Earth, is truly freak-of-nature stuff. A real cosmic accident. There are so many things that have to be just right for us to live on this planet. We don't appreciate how delicate these balances are that allow for life on Earth. I don't doubt that there are many star systems with planets. What I doubt is that such perfect accidents that allow for life to develop and intelligence to emerge is anywhere near as common as some of you would like, with no evidence, to believe. You believe it because you wish it to be true. This general denial you all seem to have that aliens could be truly malevolent underscores this naiveté.
What has that to do with anything? Life in the Amazon jungle is crude, yet people go there to study indigenous tribes. What has that to do with intelligence levels? You may note, I said we've learned but are still struggling. Actually it would be impossible not to have curiosity and to still develop high technology. You don't get science unless you're first curious about how the universe functions. There is no Aristotelian necessarily that I see. I would assume that they would, indeed, have different qualities and values than ours, but then, that's just an assumption. In the end we won't know until we're staring them in the antennae. I do, but then I also assume some basic things about intelligence and curiosity that I believe might well be universal. I've thought about this before. It may well be that we're looking ONLY for a civilization exactly as advanced, or close to us, and missing the big picture. If you're scanning the mountains for smoke signals, it stands to reason that you're only looking for people who would use smoke signals. The race you've never met but who lives thousands of miles away, who uses satellites to communicate, would not exist to your observations, nor would you exist to their observations. Well, then we're screwed already and no use being upset by it. Lock and load. :) Only if you're using smoke signals as your "signal" to determine life out there, ya' know? Who knows, I guess. That's not an illogical view, and probably is more likely to be true than the opposite. That framework view may shift a bit, however, if even basic life is found in places like Europa or other "close" planets/moons. What's also to consider is the bacteria type life that appears on the seabed floors living near volcanic vents, devoid of sun or really any life sustaining substances we know of. It's one of those things that we'll know when we know, or never know. Whatcanyado? Ultimately I'm more inclined to agree with your view of an empty universe than I am to the one that has space aliens coming here on holiday to drink some margaritas during the time of the Aztecs.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
On Earth. We have no idea of the biology or conditions of life. Other planets could have something innate to them by which a grasp of physics and chemistry is fundamental to higher life forms (unlike humans that wandered around in caves oblivious to scientific principle). Of course, we can't know what we don't know. I still say the odds are that any alien life is far more alien than we can imagine. I'm trying to underscore here that you are anthropomorphizing these hypothetical aliens. Exactly. True enough. But any civilization would detect the vast amount of radio traffic we blare into space in all directions. Advanced civilizations might be using quantum communications, having abandoned radio thousands of years ago. Or they may be telepathic and/or have no language or visual medium like ours. But is it likely that out of those billions of billions of stars that no other race is using radio? Again, the numerical argument turns against you, not for you. In the entire universe, there are no other radio-using civilizations at approximately our stage? Seems strange, no? Of course, an advanced civilization may have no interest whatsoever in other civilizations. None, zero, nada, zip. Entirely possible. Much as China and Japan regarded the West. It isn't unusual here on our own planet. Or stay skinny so you're the last one eaten by our alien overlords. Still, that silence is deafening to the argument that billions of billions of stars must produce intelligent life. I think any kind of life is probably more precious than we know at present. The evidence from our own solar system argues that a verdant planet, even something that can sustain life at the level we have in the Sahara (or some bacteria on Mars or Europa) may be incredibly rare. Of course, we are excluding the sheer amount of time that it takes for light or radio waves to travel interstellar distances. Assume that life is on one of thousand planets at average distances of a hundred light years apart. So there could be a incoming wave of radio traffic suddenly appear at any time, (just as they would be receiving our radio signals starting with the old radio broadcasts). That would be true for an advanced planet with radio technology within one hundred lights years distance. So perhaps we haven't been listening long enough. That would not account for lack of signals that have been traveling toward us for hundreds or thousands or millions of years. Again, that silence is deafening to the argument for the commonality of life. And it is difficult to believe that any advanced civilization would not make some use of radio signals during a fairly long period of their development. It would seem unlikely that you could jump to quantum or subspace communications from the beginning. If there are other civilizations out there, I suspect that they would be on average thousands of lights years apart unless located toward the center of their galaxy. And our position in the outer spiral arm of our galaxy does work somewhat against us. And being located closer in toward the galactic core makes it more likely that supernovae and other phenomenon would destroy advanced life there. Also greater hazards from rogue comets or even rogue planets in a denser area. Out here, we're far safer unless a nearby star like Alpha Centauri goes nova. We may find that life is only possible in relatively quiet galactic backwaters like where we are located which again argues against any other civilizations being within reach of ourselves for communication or for visiting/colonizing. All those stars and planets. And yet not one radio signal of artificial origin...
LOL. Bit of a stretch to have an innate grasp of quantum physics, don't you think? Why, no, not at all. We've only had radio powerful enough to fling it all out there for what, ~90 - ~100 years? There could have come and gone a billion civilizations using radio who moved on to other forms (or perished) in the time since earth was formed. The chances of another civilization at our exact stage, at this time, close enough to pick up their transmissions in something approaching real time (meaning, within a thousand years of transmission) seems exceedingly low to me to be almost statistically negligible. We didn't all start at the same point in time, presumably. All of the lack of smoke signals is deafening to the argument that there are hundreds of tribes of aborigines in central and south America. That's precisely my point. Another point is, other civs may never have thought to use radio to communicate. Maybe they went to light communications at our stage (which we do as well to an extent, with fiber optics), which would dissipate quickly after a certain distance. Presuming radio has to be on the time line is telling me you believe that "they" are more like us than you've previously indicated. :) Or, maybe those have already come and gone before Marconni set up his first receiver set. Perhaps homo erectus caught the first transmissions of I Love Mandark, neanderthals were bombarded with toothpaste commercials for centuries and never, ever knew it, and neolithic man was pelted with a smaller scattering of space craft communications as distant craft orbited distant stars a million years ago. The signals stop completely by the time Plato hits the scene, and then by the 1920's there is nothing but static silence. Or maybe they don't sit around on the low hydrogen bandwidth like SETI assumes. Or, we may have missed the first batch from 100,000 light years out, and by the time the next batch arrives from, say, 150,000 light years, we'll be 50,000 years in the future from now. Distance, space and exact levels of technology don't play well together, numbers wise. Why? You can modulate light and produce sound from it, quite easily, even without lasers. Who really knows if radio is a requirement. And I've yet to see a single smoke signal from south America, here in Ohio. Go figure. Fact is, if we hear anything at all, the odds will be astronomical that it occurred. Personally I think we're tilting at windmills with SETI. Something might come of it, but nothing we can use long term, other than "we're not alone". Whomever might transmit that we receive will be either long dead or long moved on. The bottle in the ocean scenario I went over yesterday.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
And you believe that aliens couldn't be malevolent because you can't fathom the human race acting in a malevolent manner. It's called projection. Consider that the ET's might actually be enlightened, even if only a very slim group of humans ever get there. With the idiocy of humans having nukes, aliens might want to keep an eye on humans because they are so destructive. Perhaps, out of their own sense of self preservation for the universe in which they live, wherein, as you just mused, one event could create a chain reaction that could impair a life chain somewhere. Maybe the ET's want to watch but not get too close for fear of poison. I think we can all relate to how toxic humans can be. Simple probabilities move life on other planets beyond a freak of nature possibility to a most likely scenario. Humans are very short sighted. Humans have an ingrained need to anthromporphasize everything. Aliens, perhaps, don't have this flaws.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Not at all. There are some very strange regions of space our astronomers cannot make any sense out of. Altogether different elements are in play. I was trying to illustrate how strange the universe is, how much variety there is even in elementary particles that we barely have scratched the surface of. No, the chances are not that low if there really are so many other civilizations out there. Even if they don't possess hearing, they would have plenty of uses for radio. Unlikely. Light, via lasers or whatever, isn't a very good carrier wave outside optical fiber. Radio is much more flexible and easier to use. Quantum communications is certainly possible for us and one of its most attractive features is how easily you can make it uncrackable to a non-paired receiver. Secure far beyond anything you could do with radio or wired signals. Besides, without radio, how would Ruxh Lypmbqoxtfk broadcast to all the right-wing squid on planet Brztoatlxb? I think you're being contrarian here. I'm not going to explain why radio is such a fundamental technology to any technical society. Even if their planet or planetary system is hostile to use of radio, the discovery of it is pretty essential. And you haven't explained why, with millions of other civilizations out there, why none of them can at present be detected broadcasting any radio signals. According to you, the universe is teeming with these civilizations and not all can be using light or quantum or whatever for communications. I notice how you seem to have retreated considerably from your earlier posts. Not if there are millions, perhaps billions, of other life-bearing planets out there. You're getting hung by your own Carl Saganish numbers. Just admit it.
You misread me. I was the one saying that starfaring aliens would be more likely to eat us than to converse with us. Our progress in space has slowed to a standstill. I have begun to believe our civilization is as likely to fall into a dark age than it is to make significant progress in mining the asteroid belt, building cities in space, establishing colonies even on Mars, let alone anywhere less hospitable. We've left that final frontier behind, short-sighted as that obviously is. So aliens would have no reason to fear we will leave our system. Unless life on earth is an even bigger freak of nature than we know. And we know how many things here on earth had to be just right, not a few percent more or less, for us to even live. Blame the damned apes for our simian ways.
I'm not "retreating", I'm simply pointing out the flaws in your assumptions. It doesn't mean I believe that "somebody" is "out there". If I discuss coffee cups with somebody, and state that I like blue cups, and somebody else starts telling me how red cups aren't made, and I point out the various red cups around the room, it doesn't mean that I've reversed my position on blue cups. The only numbers I'm getting "hung on" are the ones you're putting forth telling me that somehow, there would be constant reception of WUFO radio. It just makes no sense and assumes too many things that may well be specific to humans. It also relies far too heavily on the notion that the universe is populated nose to toes with advanced civilizations. I've not claimed a crowded universe, at all, so I'm not entirely certain what you're arguing. At best, I suspect that if alien life exists it's much rarer than presumed, which would explain the dearth of radio signals, while still allowing for their possible reception in the future. You seem to be saying "bajillions of civilizations is the standard, I don't hear anything 24/7/365 on low hydrogen, ergo there are no civilizations at all". Truth of the matter is probably closer to "relatively few enlightened civilizations, staggered in time". 100 years is far too small a window to rule anything out in that case, in fact, it's laughably small to use as a sample base. Like taking today's weather, right now in Ohio, and extrapolating the future weather of the planet for the next 10,000 years. Until we hear something though I have to go with the scientific default, which is disbelief until proof is presented.
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
But not even one? You aren't exactly in the same camp with all the little Sagans on the thread relying on the billions-and-billions vacuous thinking. I probably tarred you with all their comments even though you don't go the distance like they do. No denying it. We do overestimate what we know. OTOH, we could start picking up a flood of SETI traffic tomorrow. You'd immediately see a push for global defense and governance since we would know they had already been receiving our transmissions. If the broadcast started with, "Peoples of the Earth,...", I would be scared out of my wits. I'd much rather have the re-runs of "I Love Lzutcxyp". Sound enough.
In only a very small handful of years where we've actually been actively listening (since, what, the 1960's I think)? No, gosh, a few centuries or tens of thousands of years may pass between "bursts then silence" from a hypothetical civilization. Even if the frequency of picking up transmissions was every hundred years, we'd still be well within the range of "first signal" probability without having had to have received that first signal. Running under the "few and far spaced out on the time line model" with this of course. No question. Even if the bulk of humanity said "hey, neat", the politicians would use it as an event to coordinate a massive global movement (and of course, global government). Thanks. It's how I generally approach any topic like this. Sure, something *might* be possible, but until I see proof, I'm not going to indulge in the notion that it is happening necessarily. I will however speculate on things like "if this were true, what would be the outcome", for fun more than anything. :)
"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be." - Lao Tzu, 6th century BC
You are more thoughtful than those who use the sheer numbers of star systems to suppose that there are thousands of civilizations in our own galaxy, millions or billions in nearby galaxies. If they suddenly announced contact with E.T., I'd be suspicious they were false-flagging us anyway to justify more power grabs, massive spending, planetary defense, etc. So would a lot of other people.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
What floors me, is that there is this idiotic assumption that we aren't being talked to already. Radio is primitive. Surely aliens more advanced than us, would use something completely different, and completely off the scale where speed is concerned, compared to our primitive means. We could be receiving messages right now, and not even know it, because we don't have the technology to pick it up. Our technology could be so backward to them, it would be pointless to contact us until we DID have the technology to receive their messages. Then there's the other possibility that they've been here among us for millenia, and we never knew it.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
Some kind of instant quantum communications maybe? Chances still seem very strong that any civilization will go through an extended period of radio signal use. It's relatively simple and cheap.
Of course, that is a whole lot of dots to try to connect.
liberteaparty — June 09, 2010 — First, this is not an “Air Force Base” — it is a PRIVATELY OWNED FACILITY known as “Reynolds Airpark” a private Airport and “manufacturing facility”. A Mr. Ted McGowan is the manager — and their phone number is: 904-284-3505. Second, these are not “U.N. Vehicles”. These white vans belong to Pegasus International and Cerberus/DynCorp.
#2. To: TooConservative (#1)
#3. To: Itistoolate (#0)
#4. To: TooConservative (#3)
#5. To: Itistoolate (#4)
(Edited)
Do you believe we are very close to martial law and a NWO?
#6. To: TooConservative (#5)
#7. To: Itistoolate, all (#6)
#8. To: Itistoolate (#6)
#9. To: Jethro Tull (#7)
BP, the Coast Guard and the state of Lousiana have already been talking about how to coordinate evacuations so workers and equipment involved in the oil spill response don't clog highway escape routes.
#10. To: Itistoolate (#6)
Consider that Pegasus and Cerberus are both central figures of Greek (and Roman) mythology. Pegasus is the preferred mode of transportation for the pantheon of gods, while Cerberus — well — this is the mythical guardian of the gates of hell! What would possess anybody to name their corporation Cerberus???
#11. To: TooConservative (#9)
#12. To: Jethro Tull (#11)
So your contention is our government will not consider a population evacuation, at any time, related to the spew?
#13. To: Itistoolate (#0)
#14. To: TooConservative (#9)
Those evacuations are for a possible hurricane, not the oil spill. They want to make sure that oil recovery workers and operations don't impede a coastal evacuation if a big hurricane like Andrew hits FL again.
#15. To: Itistoolate (#14)
In 2001, Congressman Kucinich
#16. To: TooConservative, Itistoolate, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#15)
Was that before or after his encounter with the UFO?
Kucinich has seen a UFO
Therefore Kucinich is a kook.
Corrolary: Using the fallacy of Guilt by Association, anything which Kucinich says is not credible.
#17. To: Itistoolate (#0)
#18. To: Original_Intent (#16)
(Edited)
Was that before or after his encounter with the UFO?
#19. To: HOUNDDAWG (#18)
#20. To: Original_Intent (#16)
Anyone who has seen a UFO is a kook. Kucinich has seen a UFO Therefore Kucinich is a kook. Corrolary: Using the fallacy of Guilt by Association, anything which Kucinich says is not credible.
While it is not my intent to get off onto a UFO debate the sheer volume of case reports, witness reports etc., all point to an indefinite percentage of UFO reports to be aircraft of some kind.
#21. To: Original_Intent, christine (#19)
#22. To: TooConservative, Original_Intent (#20)
I agree, it is a script, commonly used against people like Ron Paul, to "inoculate" the public against Bad Bad Thoughts.
#23. To: Original_Intent (#19)
One of pieces of data that convinced me that there was something to it was that military pilots are subject to prosecution, jail time, and draconian fines for making a UFO report public.
#24. To: Original_Intent (#19)
One of pieces of data that convinced me that there was something to it was that military pilots are subject to prosecution, jail time, and draconian fines for making a UFO report public.
#25. To: Itistoolate (#14)
Also, since this article was posted, I have received documentation that the vans are the property of DirectTV, and are being outfitted with new GWEN TOWER and Satellite accessing technologies. Doesn’t that make you feel better?? (How can the CIA and NSA collect data for the new “Data Collection Center” in Utah — do you think they would use vans with government license plates and CIA/NSA Collections on the side – or would they use a cover corporation such as DirectTV??).....
December 15, 2008
Editor’s Note
#26. To: TooConservative (#5)
Or are you a 'disinformation specialist?
#27. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)
#28. To: Turtle (#26)
Cracks me up. Whenever someone points out what loons conspiracists are, all they can do is point and sputter "You must be one of THEM!!"
#29. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#25)
or d) those oh-so-easy-to-obtain “digital converter boxes” that the government is so anxious to help you obtain and underwrite most of the cost on your behalf......"
#30. To: TooConservative (#24)
BTW, you are aware that a military pilot could, upon reaching the age of retirement, suddenly decide he "saw" a UFO and then get paid $100K or more by the tabloids to publicize it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#31. To: TooConservative (#24)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#32. To: FormerLurker, 4 (#31)
#33. To: Itistoolate (#0)
#34. To: FormerLurker (#31)
#35. To: TooConservative (#28)
It is a way of distracting stupid people when you have no proof to offer to support your wild theories and incredible accounts.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#36. To: Lod (#32)
Last week DirecTv installed a new HD satellite dish, receiver, and remote on Mrs.L's tellie.
#37. To: FormerLurker (#35)
(Edited)
And that's exactly what you did. You diverted the thread from it's original topic, and made it all about UFOs.
#38. To: TooConservative (#34)
Explained as a double-inversion.
Events of July 26–27
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#39. To: TooConservative (#37)
No, I focused on the Kucinich UFO report
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#40. To: HOUNDDAWG (#21)
(Edited)
As usual your logic is unassailable.
#41. To: FormerLurker (#38)
At 8:15 p.m. on Saturday, July 26, 1952, a pilot and stewardess on a National Airlines flight into Washington observed some strange objects above their plane. Within minutes, both radar centers at National Airport, and the radar at Andrews AFB, were tracking more unknown objects. The objects were traveling between 90 and 100 miles per hour.
#42. To: TooConservative (#41)
But jet airliners fall out of the sky like a rock if they go as slow as 90-100mph.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#43. To: TooConservative (#41)
#44. To: FormerLurker (#42)
#45. To: TooConservative (#41)
I always find it amusing to think that races of intelligent superbeings would cross interstellar distances to come here, then tease us with UFO sightings while playing coy and never actually revealing themselves. Of course, they might have a rather odd sense of humor. Or they're just waiting for their buddies to show up so they can eat us all.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#46. To: FormerLurker (#45)
They've been coming here as long as history goes back, perhaps longer.
#47. To: TooConservative (#44)
You have one of those "I WANT TO BELIEVE! posters on the wall, don't you?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#48. To: FormerLurker (#45)
Who's to say at least some of these "visitors" aren't just from another place, but from another time, where they may even be from OUR future. That'd be the best way to record history, actually going back and seeing it happen.
#49. To: FormerLurker, wudidiz (#47)
"it is impossible, "everyone KNOWS that there isn't any other intelligent life in the Universe"...
#50. To: TooConservative (#46)
Then maybe those mystery vans in Florida belong to the Little Gray Persons, not the U.N. after all.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#51. To: TooConservative (#48)
Or you might be crazy. Or an idiot. Or a scammer. Or just a gullible mark in a con game
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#52. To: TooConservative, 4 (#41)
#53. To: Original_Intent (#49)
"Who in the world would want a personal computer? What would you do with it?"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#54. To: FormerLurker (#51)
Do you believe in Jesus?
#55. To: RickyJ (#54)
(Edited)
I do. I believe in him much more than I believe in aliens from other planets.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#56. To: TooConservative (#48)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#57. To: Itistoolate (#0)
These are not “U.N. Vehicles”. These white vans belong to Pegasus [a 'HORSE'] International and Cerberus/DynCorp.
May 12, 2009 ... An informer states that Van Duyn is one of the top 13 Illuminati families ..... [connected to the] nobility of Europe, to the tribe of Dan, and to the Khazars. ... http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/duyn.htm
Samson, a Nazarite of the tribe of Dan, judged Israel during the period of Philistine domination. At the feast celebrating his marriage to a Philistine ... http://watch.pair.com/dan.html
#58. To: FormerLurker, TooConservative, Original_Intent, Lod, HOUNDDAWG, all (#47)
"it is impossible, "everyone KNOWS that there isn't any other intelligent life in the Universe"...
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#59. To: FormerLurker (#50)
The number of vans was extremely unusual, but I doubt it has anything to do with alien life. Unless of course the aliens HAVE taken over, and THAT is why they are killing off the human population with various means, using mind controlled politicians as their human facilitators.
Still doesn't explain why they'd need vans, unless it was to round up people for a trip to some destination they'll never return from.
You see, I can take what you say and look at the various possibilities, rather than dismissing it out of hand it with ridicule as is your modus operandi here.
#60. To: FormerLurker (#55)
Fact is, most of the New Testament is a forgery, where the TRUE disciples of Jesus were persecuted and murdered by Rome, with the assistance of Paul, the supposed "head" of the Christian Church (Roman Catholic Church).
#61. To: FormerLurker (#56)
Oh and BTW genius, time travel IS within the realm of possibility, and the theory behind it has already been accepted as entirely plausible.
#62. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker (#59)
(FL) Unless of course the aliens HAVE taken over, and THAT is why they are killing off the human population with various means, using mind controlled politicians as their human facilitators.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#63. To: wudidiz (#58)
YOU ARE HERE
#64. To: TooConservative (#63)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#65. To: wudidiz (#62)
Some people think we're being farmed.
#66. To: TooConservative (#63)
YOU ARE HERE
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#67. To: TooConservative (#65)
Some people think we're being farmed.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#68. To: wudidiz (#66)
Given the size of the Universe, the probability of that is maybe zero.
#69. To: TooConservative (#68)
It's not convincing. People say this but I would like to know how they got so much experience of the universe that they know this as a fact or even as a probability.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#70. To: All (#69)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#71. To: wudidiz (#69)
(Edited)
But hey, what do I know?
What I mean is, according to mathematical probablility, I think it is extremely unlikely that we are the only intelligent beings in the Universe.
#72. To: TooConservative (#60)
Since you're talking about facts, it was always Peter (never Paul) who was claimed as head of the Catholic sect and the first pope.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#73. To: TooConservative (#61)
Just that it would require vast amounts of energy, like converting all the matter in our solar system via fusion to send an object back in time a few seconds.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#74. To: FormerLurker (#55)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#75. To: IRTorqued (#74)
#76. To: Eric Stratton (#75)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#77. To: IRTorqued (#76)
#78. To: Eric Stratton (#77)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#79. To: IRTorqued (#78)
#80. To: FormerLurker (#73)
it's impossible to develop a working time ship (or gateway) with our current technology, although the theories are sound in principle.
#81. To: wudidiz (#66)
I think it's absurd to suppose there is no other intelligent life in the Universe.
#82. To: TooConservative (#1)
Of course, that is a whole lot of dots to try to connect.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#83. To: Itistoolate (#2)
EDIT TO ADD: Additional Information
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#84. To: Itistoolate (#2)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#85. To: FormerLurker (#56)
Oh and BTW genius, time travel IS within the realm of possibility, and the theory behind it has already been accepted as entirely plausible.
#86. To: TooConservative (#3)
There is also a bunch of rumors that these are satellite-equipped vans for Directv. And also that it all ties in with the old GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network) which was supposed to safeguard the president's ability to launch a nuclear attack if a EMP nuke was exploded over North America.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#87. To: TooConservative (#5)
You mean, one of Them? LOL.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#88. To: Jethro Tull (#7)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#89. To: TooConservative (#9)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#90. To: TooConservative (#10)
Wiki:
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#91. To: Itistoolate (#14)
Answer: Cohen, Clinton, Albright and Burger
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#92. To: Original_Intent (#16)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#93. To: HOUNDDAWG (#18)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#94. To: Original_Intent (#19)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#95. To: TooConservative (#20)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#96. To: TooConservative (#23)
Because those pilots are official members of the government and their statements carry greater weight.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#97. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#25)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#98. To: Turtle (#26)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#99. To: TooConservative (#28)
It is a way of distracting stupid people when you have no proof to offer to support your wild theories and incredible accounts.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#100. To: TooConservative (#29)
Should we destroy our TVs and converter boxes and satellite boxen now, just to be safe from Big Brutha?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#101. To: TooConservative (#37)
It is you who changed the topic with long bloviating posts about UFOs.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#102. To: Original_Intent (#40)
Thank God for students of logic and lovers of truth...
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#103. To: Original_Intent (#40)
If one sets aside preconceptions and lets the evidence tell the story, rather than have a fixed idea, then one is more likely to arrive at the truth. As in anything in this existence there is no guarantee, but the odds are a "bit" better.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#104. To: TooConservative (#41)
(Edited)
But jet airliners fall out of the sky like a rock if they go as slow as 90-100mph.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#105. To: FormerLurker (#51)
Do you believe in Jesus?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#106. To: TooConservative (#20)
While it is not my intent to get off onto a UFO debate the sheer volume of case reports, witness reports etc., all point to an indefinite percentage of UFO reports to be aircraft of some kind.
And no one has ever doubted that some UFOs are unidentified aircraft. And it has been proven repeatedly that this is so. It doesn't help the argument you are trying to make at all.
#107. To: Rotara (#102)
#108. To: Original_Intent (#106)
You didn't really think I was going to let you get away with such a deceptive argument did you? UFO means Unidentified Flying Object - therefore calling an unknown an unidentified "aircraft" is an unsupported assertion. We do not know what they are whether "aircraft", spacecraft, or something else.
Likely some indefinite percentage are black budget "above Top Secret" aircraft but we cannot assert that ALL are.
As well some of the reports, such as radar, put the speed and maneuverability of some of these objects well in advance of any known terrestrial technology. Others are of such huge size as to dwarf a Football Stadium. One sighting, by a family member of mine, was of an object so large that it covered the entire extent of the sky, over the high mountain valley we lived in, from horizon to horizon. I know of no known government craft built to that scale nor is there in evidence a propulsion system that could move such an object in total silence.
While there is no doubt in my mind that the most advanced technology in the black budget programs is 20 to 40 years in advance of what is spoken of publicly too many of the reports evidence an apparent technology well in advance of that which is believed to be in those black budget programs.
#109. To: Rotara (#91)
Question: Name 4 ameriKans that should be run through a wood chipper yesterday...
#110. To: RickyJ (#80)
Sound in principle? I guess Santa Clause is sound in principal too for some people. Unbelievable!
#111. To: Rotara (#93)
If UFOs aren't real, then the global governors have done a fantastic job of manufacturing them...
#112. To: FormerLurker (#72)
ESSENE CHRISTIANITY VERSUS PAULIANITY
#113. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker (#112)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#114. To: TooConservative (#112)
Yahowshua?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#115. To: RickyJ (#80)
Sound in principle? I guess Santa Clause is sound in principal too for some people. Unbelievable!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#116. To: IRTorqued (#74)
when can we expect your documentation of your claimed fact of most of the New Testament being a forgery?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#117. To: Eric Stratton (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#118. To: RickyJ (#85)
Einstein? Really? Are you kidding me? You can't spot a plagiarizer blowing smoke up your ass to save your life, can you? Da Jews built that boy up, real scientists laugh at that clown.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#119. To: Rotara (#105)
Well, that in and of itself is extremely ignorant in light of historical facts and miraculous documentations...how you could be a sentient being in this world for more than a little bit and not acknowledge God's creation is fodder for you to be marginalized and in not so polite company to be mildly ridiculed imo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#120. To: Rotara (#105)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#121. To: FormerLurker (#117)
#122. To: FormerLurker (#114)
It's Yahshua or Yahshuah, not Yahowshua as you wrote it...
#123. To: TooConservative (#108)
If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?
#124. To: SonOfLiberty (#123)
Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion. Who knows, ultimately, what would motivate an alien civilization?
#125. To: TooConservative (#124)
#126. To: SonOfLiberty (#125)
To me, that's what interstellar awareness of, and communication with, other civilizations will probably end up looking like, given the distances and limitations imposed by the speed of light.
Just speculation of course. Maybe life is teeming out there, using communications we just don't grok yet, and it's one giant galactic version of Vegas going on. If so, sign me up!
#127. To: TooConservative (#126)
#128. To: Eric Stratton (#121)
Generally speaking, what's your take on the Gospel message?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#129. To: TooConservative (#122)
That's how the URL shows it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#130. To: FormerLurker (#128)
#131. To: FormerLurker (#129)
Wrong, the website uses the Hebrew name for Jesus, which is Yahshua, not Yahowshua as you irreverently stated.
Jesus was an Essene.
#132. To: SonOfLiberty (#127)
I'm not a huge fan of the notion "don't explore, you might get hurt", to be honest. Be cautious, yes, but to stop the spirit of exploration, you might as well just nuke us and call us done as a species.
#133. To: Eric Stratton (#130)
As time permits, but allow me to ask the obvious, which "non-men" wrote all that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#134. To: TooConservative (#131)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#135. To: TooConservative (#131)
And you have to be an ignoramus to think that any of this ancient Hebrew even had vowels in it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#136. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker, HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz, all (#108)
(Edited)
If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?
#137. To: FormerLurker (#135)
It must be Jss then, eh?
#138. To: Original_Intent (#136)
A. There is an unexplained phenomena that has been observed by hundreds of thousands to millions of people. Many of the observers have no apparent pecuniary motivation and are of known sound mind and reputation.
B. The phenomena observed e.g., velocities measured in thousands of miles per hour, rapid changes in direction, lights, etc., are not explainable in terms of any known terrestrial technology. Attempts to explain it away are just that - avoidance and attempts to explain away information that might actually result in a view of the universe different than the one a person with an open mind begins with.
C. The Federal Government has, by all appearances, followed a program of cover-up, denial, and disregard of the phenomena which is contradicted by leaked documents and testimony of people in government service of an intense interest in the phenomena. This is evidenced by the multiple staged events to tell the sheeple "go back to sleep and continue grazing" e.g., (the most well known) the multiple cover stories and denials over an apparent crash site at Roswell, New Mexico.
#139. To: FormerLurker (#135)
Oh, so I suppose Jesus isn't a real name either, since it has vowels. It must be Jss then, eh?
#140. To: TooConservative (#132)
#141. To: SonOfLiberty (#140)
For all we know, we might be the apex aggressive predator species in the galaxy and just haven't made it off this rock to discover it yet.
#142. To: FormerLurker, TooConserative (#129)
Yahowshua That's how the URL shows it.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#143. To: TooConservative, Rotara, Original_Intent, randge, James_Deffenbach (#111)
If UFOs aren't real, then the global governors have done a fantastic job of manufacturing them...
#144. To: TooConservative, FormerLurker (#141)
An alien species seems likely to be completely unlike us biologically. We have a certain biped bias in our imaginings of aliens because Hollyweird had all those bad sci-fi movies with people dressed up to look like aliens.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#145. To: FormerLurker (#133)
#146. To: HOUNDDAWG (#143)
One alien turns to the other and says, "This really IS a primitive planet. They haven't even exterminated their Jews yet!"
#147. To: wudidiz (#144)
Could be, but then it could also be that most if not all creatures elsewhere in the Universe take on a form similar to us or other animals on Earth due to the development based on rules or laws of fractal geometry.
Maybe they're not bipeds necessarily but grow as one cell then divide and then those two cells divide and so on...
#148. To: FormerLurker (#120)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#149. To: TooConservative (#111)
If UFOs aren't real, then the global governors have done a fantastic job of manufacturing them...
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#150. To: Original_Intent, TooConservative, FormerLurker, wudidiz, christine (#136)
#151. To: wudidiz, TooConservative (#69)
It's not convincing. People say this but I would like to know how they got so much experience of the universe that they know this as a fact or even as a probability.
#152. To: HOUNDDAWG, TooConservative, all (#150)
"If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?"
#153. To: Original_Intent (#151)
It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
#154. To: HOUNDDAWG, Original_Intent, TooConservative, FormerLurker, christine (#150)
"If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?"
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#155. To: Original_Intent, TooConservative (#151)
It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#156. To: TooConservative (#138)
(Edited)
A. There is an unexplained phenomena that has been observed by hundreds of thousands to millions of people. Many of the observers have no apparent pecuniary motivation and are of known sound mind and reputation.
There are lots of ways for radar to give false readings and ghosts. Even more if you have some prankster or disinformation group pranking you.
"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid." ~ Mark Twain
C. The Federal Government has, by all appearances, followed a program of cover-up, denial, and disregard of the phenomena which is contradicted by leaked documents and testimony of people in government service of an intense interest in the phenomena. This is evidenced by the multiple staged events to tell the sheeple "go back to sleep and continue grazing" e.g., (the most well known) the multiple cover stories and denials over an apparent crash site at Roswell, New Mexico.
Anyone can say this when others refuse to believe their favored accounts of events. Dime a dozen.
#157. To: HOUNDDAWG (#153)
It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
#158. To: Original_Intent (#152)
Or it simply might be that by pure chance we were located at an interstellar crossroads, and the visitors are just stopping to gawk at the natives. I do admit I always find it amusing when someone, such our erstwhile interlocutor, asserts some version of the "we're the only intelligent life in the universe and this is the only inhabited planet, line of reasoning. It has no foundation other than an unwillingness to look at the available data and drawing a logical conclusion. However, who ever said the human race is logical?
#159. To: wudidiz, TooConservative (#155)
It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
#160. To: HOUNDDAWG (#158)
Beware the self styled omniscient (how else can one describe those who make sweeping statements about the totality of life in the universe?) for they will arrange a fatal accident for you (tamper with your brakes) to avoid admitting their human fallibility. And their arrogance is multiplied by the anonymity the net affords them because if proven wrong they can disappear. Shortly after new members arrive with screen names such as "American Gothic" and "I'm From MO-Show ME". And in no time at all you'll be blind sided for statements that are not particularly controversial. If you think of it as angry, nit picking cheap shots by those who'll never forgive you for underscoring their ignorance it will make sense.
#161. To: FormerLurker (#118)
#162. To: wudidiz, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, wudidiz, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty (#154)
(Edited)
Genesis 6:1-2
#163. To: Original_Intent (#151)
It is a rather limited, parochial, and egocentric view to presume that we are the only intelligent life, in a very vast universe, or even the most advanced. Such presumption is childish to say the least.
#164. To: Original_Intent (#160)
#165. To: TooConservative, ALL (#163)
#166. To: TooConservative, Original_Intent (#163)
intelligent
#167. To: Original_Intent (#156)
Very insigtful. NOT!
And you still think we should look for intelligent life on other planets? LOL. Maybe you should try to find some here on Earth first.
#168. To: Itistoolate, Turtle, Original_Intent (#165)
www.disclosureproject.org/
#169. To: HOUNDDAWG (#164)
Galileo supposedly uttered, "Nevertheless it did move" while on his knees before the Church accepting his punishment.
#170. To: HOUNDDAWG (#166)
No offense but you seem to be trying to derail the chat with a pointless non-sequitur.
#171. To: TooConservative, all (#167)
Very insigtful. NOT!
Government radar systems are incapble of error or being spoofed (despite the common knowledge that radar is easy to spoof and that weather routinely causes all kinds of false radar readings during inversions and other weather situations).
Weak Analogy
Red Herring You feel persecuted by diabolical forces if anyone doubts your pet theories for which you can muster no evidence whatsoever.
And you still think we should look for intelligent life on other planets? LOL. Maybe you should try to find some here on Earth first.
BTW, were you ever going to offer any opinion on the supposed U.N. vans in the Florida air park? Or are you just here to hijack the thread? Hey, maybe those vans belong to E.T., how about that?
#172. To: TooConservative, HOUNDDAWG, ALL (#170)
No offense but you seem to be trying to derail the chat with a pointless non-sequitur.
#173. To: Original_Intent (#171)
(Edited)
As both a Radar Operator and Sonar Operator I can tell you that it is part of the training to be able to recognize spurious blips and electronic artifacts.
ROFLMFAO! I think it was about 60 or 70 posts ago I graciously conceded that you are welcome to believe whatever you wish,...
just as I am quite capable of holding my own views, based upon the mountains of evidence you refuse to look at or acknowledge, and feel no compulsion whatsoever to share your viewpoint, whatever it may be given the confused mishmash of your arguments.
#174. To: HOUNDDAWG (#164)
Now that is some super ass kicking!
Galileo supposedly uttered, "Nevertheless it did move" while on his knees before the Church accepting his punishment.
#175. To: Original_Intent (#174)
That was supposed to be his magnum opus which would totally refute my position.
#176. To: TooConservative (#173)
I see. Lack of mere evidence doesn't rattle your certainties at all.
#177. To: TooConservative (#175)
at was supposed to be his magnum opus which would totally refute my position.
#178. To: Original_Intent (#176)
If you wish to relieve yourself of your ignorance then fine. If not then fine. I am quite ambivalent upon the matter.
#179. To: TooConservative (#178)
#180. To: Original_Intent (#177)
We weren't talking about my comments to you - it was regarding an earlier debate with someone else - unless you used to post as "Alan Chapman". You need to learn to read more carefully before inserting your foot.
#181. To: TooConservative (#178)
If you wish to relieve yourself of your ignorance then fine. If not then fine. I am quite ambivalent upon the matter.
#182. To: Itistoolate (#179)
(Edited)
Thousands of UN Vehicles and Tons of Equipment Masking At Florida Airbase? UPDATE
Update: As of now there is confirmation that there are currently NO vehicles present at this moment. It appears the vehicles have been moved between Feb. and now. Thanks to a dedicated Intel Soldier known as Gortz, we have solved this one. We will keep you posted if anything changes. For the people that believe that Kia Motors stored that many vehicles of the same model in a private airport, wow…
#183. To: Original_Intent (#181)
I am not ambivalent to the use of false logic and disinformation tactics, which is what you were doing in that post (#15 on this thread). I objected then, and now, to the false assertion that an objective view of the UFO phenomena, or having sighted one, perforce makes one a kook, and your argument to that affect was dishonest and logically fallacious.
#184. To: FormerLurker (#116)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#185. To: TooConservative (#182)
And now that they're gone, no one can prove whether they were U.N. or just surplus vehicles that Kia couldn't get sold in a slow economy.
#186. To: TooConservative (#167)
And you still think we should look for intelligent life on other planets? LOL. Maybe you should try to find some here on Earth first.
#187. To: HOUNDDAWG, abraxas, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, buckeroo, christine, Jethro_Tull, SonOfLiberty (#162)
(Edited)
(TC)"If intelligent life does exist Out There, why in the world would they be interested in the human race?"
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#188. To: All (#187)
aliens
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#189. To: Rotara (#148)
...Jesus came to abolish religion and create relationship with the Living God Almighty directly.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#190. To: RickyJ (#161)
Just as the current power structure has built up the myth of human caused global warming, those before them built up the myth of Einstien's genius and time travel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#191. To: IRTorqued (#184)
I didn't ask for a rerun of a link I want to see your documentation of the claim you made.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#192. To: IRTorqued (#184)
I didn't ask for a rerun of a link I want to see your documentation of the claim you made.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: wudidiz (#187)
#194. To: Original_Intent, HOUNDDAWG, noone222 (#193)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#195. To: wudidiz (#187)
So we are alien hybrids. Which would explain why we are so very different from every single one of all the species on the planet. It is a theme of every Religion on the planet too.
#196. To: Original_Intent, TooConservative (#174)
It had built up over a couple other threads with varied exchanges. That was supposed to be his magnum opus which would totally refute my position. Do you think I was too harsh on him. ;-)
#197. To: HOUNDDAWG (#195)
Actually, I find this plausible in light of the lost technology of the pyramids and other reasons.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#198. To: wudidiz (#188)
Not from Mexico.
#199. To: TooConservative (#163)
You assume we are anything close to intelligent. The evidence is awfully thin for it. We are little removed from cavemen with clubs and enough knowledge to start a fire.
#200. To: SonOfLiberty (#199)
It's all good fun to consider ourselves "dumb", but end of the day "dumb" doesn't build skyscrapers, space craft or nanobots, or even mundane things like canteens. And "dumb" certainly doesn't contemplate the meaning of life, or the state of matter occupied by light, as a leisure activity while toying around on computers it built which perform millions of precise mathematical calculations every half second.
#201. To: wudidiz (#187)
So we are alien hybrids. Which would explain why we are so very different from every single one of all the species on the planet. It is a theme of every Religion on the planet too.
#202. To: TooConservative (#200)
And how do we view the aborigines or the isolated uncivilized human tribes?
A starfaring race would consider us quaint at best. Or just a delicious entree.
#203. To: SonOfLiberty, wudidiz, RickyJ, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#202)
Sure, they wouldn't have microcomputers or cars or nuclear bombs or stealth aircraft or moon faring space ships, but their technological level would have nothing to do with their innate intelligence, culture, poetry, art or other interesting things.
And that's just human to human. Think of all of the exploration and study you could do, intellectually, with an entirely different self aware intelligent alien species! All of your assumptions would be challenged, everything would seem new by observing them, and your perceptions of the universe would be expanded.
Technological advancement is not the panacea of intellectual measurement, iow. "Aliens" can be on the same intellectual level as us, but have a couple of thousand more years head start on technology, and their technology would look like magic to us. But, again, their intellectual level would be the same. Maybe they'd be benign, or not, or simply neutral.
#204. To: TooConservative (#203)
Life then was generally pretty crude. I don't think you'd find it so charming after a few months. Or a few days.
And how often has that happened here when Europeans met up with primitive tribes? You have a few like Sir Richard Burton at the fringes that no one pays much attention to. And the superior culture conquers the inferior over and over.
You wish to believe they would share a simian curiosity, like ours. That would be almost impossible.
A starfaring race would of necessity have entirely different qualities and values from our own.
You should assume they are far more different than like us.
The reason we don't pick up radio traffic from other civilizations may be telling.
What if a predator race is out there, just waiting to pounce on any radio signal source? Those old reruns of I Love Lucy could have summoned an invasion fleet, already inbound to us.
I think an empty universe is more likely despite all the folks on this thread ranting over billions upon billions upon billions of stars, like some bad version of Carl Sagan. Let's grant that there are millions or billions or even trillions of galaxies for the sake of argument. Again, if this is so, then the numerical argument made that life must be common Out There turns against those who assume there must be intelligent life out there. If there are so many planets with intelligent life, we should have an E.T. channel on cable already with the E.T. version of I Love Lucy reruns.
I suspect life, as it is on Earth, is truly freak-of-nature stuff. A real cosmic accident. There are so many things that have to be just right for us to live on this planet.
#205. To: SonOfLiberty, wudidiz, RickyJ, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#204)
(Edited)
Actually it would be impossible not to have curiosity and to still develop high technology. You don't get science unless you're first curious about how the universe functions.
I do, but then I also assume some basic things about intelligence and curiosity that I believe might well be universal.
I've thought about this before. It may well be that we're looking ONLY for a civilization exactly as advanced, or close to us, and missing the big picture. If you're scanning the mountains for smoke signals, it stands to reason that you're only looking for people who would use smoke signals. The race you've never met but who lives thousands of miles away, who uses satellites to communicate, would not exist to your observations, nor would you exist to their observations.
Well, then we're screwed already and no use being upset by it. Lock and load. :)
Only if you're using smoke signals as your "signal" to determine life out there, ya' know? Who knows, I guess.
That's not an illogical view, and probably is more likely to be true than the opposite. That framework view may shift a bit, however, if even basic life is found in places like Europa or other "close" planets/moons. What's also to consider is the bacteria type life that appears on the seabed floors living near volcanic vents, devoid of sun or really any life sustaining substances we know of. It's one of those things that we'll know when we know, or never know.
#206. To: TooConservative (#205)
Other planets could have something innate to them by which a grasp of physics and chemistry is fundamental to higher life forms (unlike humans that wandered around in caves oblivious to scientific principle).
But is it likely that out of those billions of billions of stars that no other race is using radio? Again, the numerical argument turns against you, not for you. In the entire universe, there are no other radio-using civilizations at approximately our stage? Seems strange, no?
Still, that silence is deafening to the argument that billions of billions of stars must produce intelligent life.
That would be true for an advanced planet with radio technology within one hundred lights years distance. So perhaps we haven't been listening long enough.
That would not account for lack of signals that have been traveling toward us for hundreds or thousands or millions of years.
And it is difficult to believe that any advanced civilization would not make some use of radio signals during a fairly long period of their development.
All those stars and planets. And yet not one radio signal of artificial origin..
#207. To: TooConservative (#203)
You believe it because you wish it to be true. This general denial you all seem to have that aliens could be truly malevolent underscores this naiveté.
#208. To: SonOfLiberty (#206)
(Edited)
LOL. Bit of a stretch to have an innate grasp of quantum physics, don't you think?
There could have come and gone a billion civilizations using radio who moved on to other forms (or perished) in the time since earth was formed. The chances of another civilization at our exact stage, at this time, close enough to pick up their transmissions in something approaching real time (meaning, within a thousand years of transmission) seems exceedingly low to me to be almost statistically negligible.
The signals stop completely by the time Plato hits the scene, and then by the 1920's there is nothing but static silence. Or maybe they don't sit around on the low hydrogen bandwidth like SETI assumes. Or, we may have missed the first batch from 100,000 light years out, and by the time the next batch arrives from, say, 150,000 light years, we'll be 50,000 years in the future from now. Distance, space and exact levels of technology don't play well together, numbers wise.
Another point is, other civs may never have thought to use radio to communicate. Maybe they went to light communications at our stage (which we do as well to an extent, with fiber optics), which would dissipate quickly after a certain distance. Presuming radio has to be on the time line is telling me you believe that "they" are more like us than you've previously indicated. :)
Why? You can modulate light and produce sound from it, quite easily, even without lasers. Who really knows if radio is a requirement.
And I've yet to see a single smoke signal from south America, here in Ohio. Go figure. Fact is, if we hear anything at all, the odds will be astronomical that it occurred. Personally I think we're tilting at windmills with SETI. Something might come of it, but nothing we can use long term, other than "we're not alone". Whomever might transmit that we receive will be either long dead or long moved on. The bottle in the ocean scenario I went over yesterday.
#209. To: abraxas (#207)
And you believe that aliens couldn't be malevolent because you can't fathom the human race acting in a malevolent manner.
With the idiocy of humans having nukes, aliens might want to keep an eye on humans because they are so destructive. Perhaps, out of their own sense of self preservation for the universe in which they live, wherein, as you just mused, one event could create a chain reaction that could impair a life chain somewhere. Maybe the ET's want to watch but not get too close for fear of poison. I think we can all relate to how toxic humans can be.
Simple probabilities move life on other planets beyond a freak of nature possibility to a most likely scenario.
Humans are very short sighted. Humans have an ingrained need to anthromporphasize everything. Aliens, perhaps, don't have this flaws.
#210. To: TooConservative (#208)
#211. To: SonOfLiberty (#210)
The only numbers I'm getting "hung on" are the ones you're putting forth telling me that somehow, there would be constant reception of WUFO radio. It just makes no sense and assumes too many things that may well be specific to humans. It also relies far too heavily on the notion that the universe is populated nose to toes with advanced civilizations. I've not claimed a crowded universe, at all, so I'm not entirely certain what you're arguing. At best, I suspect that if alien life exists it's much rarer than presumed, which would explain the dearth of radio signals, while still allowing for their possible reception in the future. You seem to be saying "bajillions of civilizations is the standard, I don't hear anything 24/7/365 on low hydrogen, ergo there are no civilizations at all".
Truth of the matter is probably closer to "relatively few enlightened civilizations, staggered in time". 100 years is far too small a window to rule anything out in that case, in fact, it's laughably small to use as a sample base.
Until we hear something though I have to go with the scientific default, which is disbelief until proof is presented.
#212. To: TooConservative (#211)
But not even one?
OTOH, we could start picking up a flood of SETI traffic tomorrow. You'd immediately see a push for global defense and governance since we would know they had already been receiving our transmissions.
Sound enough.
#213. To: SonOfLiberty (#212)
In only a very small handful of years where we've actually been actively listening (since, what, the 1960's I think)? No, gosh, a few centuries or tens of thousands of years may pass between "bursts then silence" from a hypothetical civilization. Even if the frequency of picking up transmissions was every hundred years, we'd still be well within the range of "first signal" probability without having had to have received that first signal. Running under the "few and far spaced out on the time line model" with this of course.
Thanks. It's how I generally approach any topic like this. Sure, something *might* be possible, but until I see proof, I'm not going to indulge in the notion that it is happening necessarily. I will however speculate on things like "if this were true, what would be the outcome", for fun more than anything. :)
#214. To: FormerLurker (#116)
#215. To: FormerLurker (#116)
#216. To: TooConservative (#211)
#217. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#216)
What floors me, is that there is this idiotic assumption that we aren't being talked to already. Radio is primitive. Surely aliens more advanced than us, would use something completely different, and completely off the scale where speed is concerned, compared to our primitive means. We could be receiving messages right now, and not even know it, because we don't have the technology to pick it up.
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