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Science/Tech
See other Science/Tech Articles

Title: Should We Nuke The Oil Well?
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/07/should-we-nuke-oil-well.html
Published: Jul 3, 2010
Author: Washington's Blog
Post Date: 2010-07-03 11:14:53 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 185
Comments: 16

CBS News, the Christian Science Monitor, CNN, Reuters and Fox (and see this) have all asked whether BP should nuke its leaking oil well.

Indeed, some high-level Russian nuclear scientists and oil industry experts have suggested such an approach to stop the Gulf oil gusher. Here is archival footage of the Russians killing a gas leak with a nuclear device.

And Obama's energy secretary and Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Chu included the man who helped develop the first hydrogen bomb in the 1950s as part of the 5-man brain trust tasked with stopping the oil.

And oil industry expert Matt Simmons proposes the use of a tactical nuclear device every time he is interviewed on national television.

However, even the history of Russia's successful use of nuclear devices to stop gushers has some important caveats.

As Reuters notes (unless new links are provided, links for all cited articles are provided at the beginning of this essay):

Vladimir Chuprov from Greenpeace's Moscow office is even more insistent that BP not heed the advice of the veteran Soviet physicists. Chuprov disputes the veterans' accounts of the peaceful explosions and says several of the gas leaks reappeared later. "What was praised as a success and a breakthrough by the Soviet Union is in essence a lie," he says.

[Former long-time Russian Minister of nuclear energy and veteran Soviet physicist Viktor] Mikhailov agrees that the USSR had to give up its program because of problems it presented. "I ended the program because I knew how worthless this all was," he says with a sigh. "Radioactive material was still seeping through cracks in the ground and spreading into the air. It wasn't worth it."

As the Christian Science Monitor points out:

The Russians previously used nukes at least five times to seal off gas well fires. … Komsomoloskaya Pravda suggested that the United States might as well take a chance with a nuke, based on the historical 20% failure rate. Still, the Soviet experience with nuking underground gas wells could prove easier in retrospect than trying to seal the Gulf of Mexico’s oil well disaster that’s taking place 5,000 feet below the surface. The Russians were using nukes to extinguish gas well fires in natural gas fields, not sealing oil wells gushing liquid, so there are big differences, and this method has never been tested in such conditions. As CBS News reports, not all of the Russians nukes worked:

But not each use of nuclear energy did the trick. A 4 kiloton charge set off in Russia's Kharkov region failed to stop a gas blowout. "The explosion was mysteriously left on the surface, forming a mushroom cloud," the paper reported.

Indeed, several experts have said that nuking the well might make the situation worse.

For example, Reuters notes:

There is a chance any blast could fracture the seabed and cause an underground blowout, according to Andy Radford, petroleum engineer and American Petroleum Institute senior policy adviser on offshore issues. CNN points out that nuking the leaking well could conceivably destabilize other oil wells miles away.

The New York Times reports:

Government and private nuclear experts agreed that using a nuclear bomb would be ... risky technically, with unknown and possibly disastrous consequences from radiation ....

A senior Los Alamos scientist, speaking on the condition of anonymity because his comments were unauthorized, ridiculed the idea of using a nuclear blast to solve the crisis in the gulf.

“It’s not going to happen,” he said. “Technically, it would be exploring new ground in the midst of a disaster — and you might make it worse.”

And one of the world's top physicists - string theorist Michio Kaku - writes:

I think this is a bad idea, from a physics point of view. Let me say that my mentor while I was in high school and at Harvard, Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, was a firm advocate of using nuclear weapons to dig out canals and other grand engineering projects.

***

Underground, we then have a hollow sphere of vaporized gas, with walls that have been glassified from the sand. This hollow sphere is stable from a few hours to a few days, but eventually the weight of the rock collapses the sphere. The result is a sudden collapse of the sphere, often releasing radioactive gas into the environment.

***

If this takes place under the sea floor (which has never been done before), there are bound to be complications. First, there would be the release of dangerous, water-soluble chemicals such as radioactive iodine, strontium, and cesium, which would contaminate the food chain in the Gulf. Second, the "seal" created by the glassified sand is probably unstable. And third, it might actually make the problem worse, creating many mini leaks on the ocean floor. Determining the precise effect of such an underwater blast would depend on crucial computer simulations of the various layers of rock under the seafloor, which has never been done before.

In other words, this would bea huge science experiment, with unintended consequences. Furthermore, with hurricane season upon us, and predictions of eight or more hurricanes for this season, it means that seawater several hundred feet below the surface of the water could be churned up and then deposited over the South. This seawater, containing oils and radioactive fission products, would magnify the environmental problem.

In summary, it is not a good idea to use nukes to seal up oil leaks.

Moreover, former President Bill Clinton told CNN on Sunday (starting 3:13 into video) that he has looked into the issue, and that a nuke is not needed. He said the Navy can use conventional explosives to seal the well. As the former commander-in-chief, Clinton is probably getting such information from someone high up in the Navy.

For more on the nuclear option, see this.


Poster Comment:

A comment from the site:

In fact, the same question was asked about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, -and everywhere else the idiotic decision was made to let loose with this technology.

It is ALWAYS a mistake to play God. There is no exception to this rule.

And the answer then, is still the same. No.

The infinite complexity of reality is the only known key to cogently determining the end result of this foolishness, -disaster.-

There is no solution to be found in finding excuses to see the use of atomic weaponry in some impossibly positive light, regardless the infantile fascination with things that go -Boom!-

Humanity is not intellectually equipped to handle this technology, nor most others.

In an era when our government is readying to blast a large nation, perhaps several, back into the Stone Age for the development of their own ideas of nuclear potential, we can only wonder just how far the idiotic mind of man will go to justify the use of these weapons.

Some are asking, Should we nuke Iran?

The Gulf of Mexico has suffered enough damage at the hands of humanity equipped by the scientists who lull us into an unwarranted sense of self-confidence.

Competence is vastly over-exaggerated in most cases.

And these scientists are much more closely related to the Great Apes -than they are to the Gods they pretend to be.

They have no authority to make this choice for me.

And I say -NO!-

If they say, -YES!-, then -with what restraint should my exception to their stupidity be expressed when they endanger the planet?

These moral knaves who feign civilization must be asked these questions.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

#5. To: christine, Original_Intent, Pinguinite, amphibians (#0) (Edited)

Nonsense. This article is riddled with fallacies, mistruths, half-truths and other things that aren't the truth. When making such an important decision, emotion, prejudice, bias and fear should be entirely left out.

A nuke could work if done properly. A nuke, imo, Would work if done properly.

I have yet to see one single solid argument against the idea.

I have seen numerous fear based attempts at manipulating the information in an effort to persuade others to disagree with what imo may be the Only practical solution to this problem.

I don't have the time or desire to pick this article apart but I should later.

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-03   16:47:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 5.

#6. To: wudidiz, christine, Original_Intent, amphibians (#5)

I agree with Wudidz. While I can't disagree with the articles point that a nuke would be, to a large extent, experimental, that notion conflicts with the doomsday claims that a nuke (a mini-nuke, that is) is "certain" to cause. How can anyone say that it's uncertain it would work as intended while also saying with certainty that all the bad stuff would happen?

And if we are not to nuke it, then what is the alternate proposed solution? Those who claim a nuke is out of the question without proposing something else are, by default, advocating that the well be allowed to continue to leak indefinitely.

If that is the case, they should say so plainly.

Pinguinite  posted on  2010-07-06 01:40:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: christine, Original_Intent, Pinguinite, All (#5) (Edited)

Please, if you can, watch this video before reading this post so you have a better idea of the method I'm talking about using that the Russians were successful with.

The first sentence of the article itself starts out as bs.

CBS News, the Christian Science Monitor, CNN, Reuters and Fox (and see this) have all asked whether BP should nuke its leaking oil well.

Who said anything about BP nuking the well?

BP should NOT be allowed within 100 miles of any of the decision making or attempts to solve the problem.

Vladimir Chuprov from Greenpeace's Moscow office is even more insistent that BP not heed the advice of the veteran Soviet physicists. Chuprov disputes the veterans' accounts of the peaceful explosions and says several of the gas leaks reappeared later. "What was praised as a success and a breakthrough by the Soviet Union is in essence a lie," he says.

Who the hell is this guy all of a sudden?

We're supposed to believe that because he's both Russian and a member of Greenpeace (a fraudulent scam organization) that he's an authority? Where are these "several" gas leaks that appeared later?

Here's an excerpt from the article:

[Former long-time Russian Minister of nuclear energy and veteran Soviet physicist Viktor] Mikhailov agrees that the USSR had to give up its program because of problems it presented. "I ended the program because I knew how worthless this all was," he says with a sigh. "Radioactive material was still seeping through cracks in the ground and spreading into the air. It wasn't worth it."

and here's what they didn't want you to read from the exact same guy:

MOSCOW/WASHINGTON (Reuters) – His face wracked by age and his voice rasping after decades of chain-smoking coarse tobacco, the former long-time Russian Minister of nuclear energy and veteran Soviet physicist Viktor Mikhailov knows just how to fix BP's oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. "A nuclear explosion over the leak," he says nonchalantly puffing a cigarette as he sits in a conference room at the Institute of Strategic Stability, where he is a director. "I don't know what BP is waiting for, they are wasting their time. Only about 10 kilotons of nuclear explosion capacity and the problem is solved."

The explosion should be under (before) the leak. BP should Not be allowed to do anymore work concerning this leak. For obvious reasons.

From the article:

As the Christian Science Monitor points out:

The Russians previously used nukes at least five times to seal off gas well fires. … Komsomoloskaya Pravda suggested that the United States might as well take a chance with a nuke, based on the historical 20% failure rate. Still, the Soviet experience with nuking underground gas wells could prove easier in retrospect than trying to seal the Gulf of Mexico’s oil well disaster that’s taking place 5,000 feet below the surface. The Russians were using nukes to extinguish gas well fires in natural gas fields, not sealing oil wells gushing liquid, so there are big differences, and this method has never been tested in such conditions.

The second well would be dug beside the first one angling toward it. The explosion would occur miles below the top of the well. The depth of water above and the type of substance leaking out has no relevance.

As CBS News reports, not all of the Russians nukes worked:

But not each use of nuclear energy did the trick. A 4 kiloton charge set off in Russia's Kharkov region failed to stop a gas blowout. "The explosion was mysteriously left on the surface, forming a mushroom cloud," the paper reported.

This is like comparing apples and oranges. If there was a mushroom cloud that means that the explosion that didn't work was on the surface of the land. The explosion should be miles beneath the surface of the rock. They would use more than 4 kilotons to ensure the pipe is sealed. They're complaining about a 80% (4/5) success rate, but there is a 100% (4/4) success rate of the times it was done properly.

For example, Reuters notes:

There is a chance any blast could fracture the seabed and cause an underground blowout, according to Andy Radford, petroleum engineer and American Petroleum Institute senior policy adviser on offshore issues.

More bs courtesy of Reuters and an Oil Industry Hooer. Notice the choice of language; "a chance, blast, fracture, blowout". This guy's in bed with Obama, BP and whoever else will give him moolah to be sure. No, the "blast", which again would be miles below the seabed, would only vibrate the rock. And so what if it fractured the seabed anyway? They make it sound like the earth is gonna just come busting loose out of a crack in the seabed. Jeesh.

CNN points out that nuking the leaking well could conceivably destabilize other oil wells miles away.

More horse ka-ka. I could conceivably walk on water too.

The New York Times reports:

Government and private nuclear experts agreed that using a nuclear bomb would be ... risky technically, with unknown and possibly disastrous consequences from radiation ....

A senior Los Alamos scientist, speaking on the condition of anonymity because his comments were unauthorized, ridiculed the idea of using a nuclear blast to solve the crisis in the gulf.

“It’s not going to happen,” he said. “Technically, it would be exploring new ground in the midst of a disaster — and you might make it worse.”

Fear mongering and scare tactics. You know, the more I read this crap, the more I'm convinced nuking the well shut is the way to go. Which "government and private nuclear experts" agreed? Which ones didn't agree? Oh yeah, ridicule. A ridiculing anonymous senior scientist. Great.

What's next?

And one of the world's top physicists - string theorist Michio Kaku - writes:

I think this is a bad idea, from a physics point of view. Let me say that my mentor while I was in high school and at Harvard, Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, was a firm advocate of using nuclear weapons to dig out canals and other grand engineering projects.

***

Underground, we then have a hollow sphere of vaporized gas, with walls that have been glassified from the sand. This hollow sphere is stable from a few hours to a few days, but eventually the weight of the rock collapses the sphere. The result is a sudden collapse of the sphere, often releasing radioactive gas into the environment.

***

If this takes place under the sea floor (which has never been done before), there are bound to be complications. First, there would be the release of dangerous, water-soluble chemicals such as radioactive iodine, strontium, and cesium, which would contaminate the food chain in the Gulf. Second, the "seal" created by the glassified sand is probably unstable. And third, it might actually make the problem worse, creating many mini leaks on the ocean floor. Determining the precise effect of such an underwater blast would depend on crucial computer simulations of the various layers of rock under the seafloor, which has never been done before.

In other words, this would be a huge science experiment, with unintended consequences. Furthermore, with hurricane season upon us, and predictions of eight or more hurricanes for this season, it means that seawater several hundred feet below the surface of the water could be churned up and then deposited over the South. This seawater, containing oils and radioactive fission products, would magnify the environmental problem.

In summary, it is not a good idea to use nukes to seal up oil leaks.

The string theorist is assuming that the nuke would be detonated just below the top of the well. It would not. It would be used miles below. No danger of radiation or "collapse of the sphere" resulting in the release of poisonous gases. None. At all.

Moreover, former President Bill Clinton told CNN on Sunday (starting 3:13 into video) that he has looked into the issue, and that a nuke is not needed. He said the Navy can use conventional explosives to seal the well. As the former commander-in-chief, Clinton is probably getting such information from someone high up in the Navy.

So Slick Willy tops off the long list of experts and scientists. Of course everyone trusts him because he's so good looking and such an excellent liar.

Damn, he's a good liar.

Good lookin too.

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-06 03:49:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

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