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Title: Barack Obama: Shape Shifting Reptilian Overlord or Pure Human?
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 4, 2010
Author: russell huebsch
Post Date: 2010-07-04 14:41:52 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 16908
Comments: 362

Is Barack Obama really a shape shifting reptilian humanoid from a far away galaxy bent on the enslavement of the human race? According to David Icke, who claims on his web site that most world leaders come from a line of reptilians originating in the Alpha Draconis, Barack Obama is most likely a blood drinking shape shifter bent on progressing the New World Order. Icke's reptilian theory makes the claim that reptilians plan to control humanity and other civilizations through fear and negative emotion, a food source for the reptilian. Icke believes the reptilians plan for world domination started to unravel with the September 11 attacks on New York and Obama's presidency will lead us into this "New World Order", but is this just mere babbling from a sick mind or does this theory have some legitimacy? Here are signs that the Obama reptilian conspiracy is true.

"Change we need": Has Obama told us all along that he is a changeling/shape shifting reptilian? Think about it, change always happens when a new president enters office, perhaps Obama's corporeal body is crying out to the world that a shape shifting reptilian alien has hijacked his avatar. "Change" might also be a code word for reptilian dictators across the globe that America has elected another shape shifter as president. Even Adolph Hitler claimed to bring change for the German people, but as we know all the only thing the world received from Hitler was millions of lost lives and the genocide of an entire race of people. Whatever this "change" really means it certainly does not bode well for the future of America and even worse for the human race.

The questionable birth certificate: Why would any presidential candidate try so desperately to hide a real birth certificate? Perhaps because reptilian overlords do not receive birth certificates, they congeal out of a pile of goo! The voting public would never vote for a space reptilian and if the plan for world domination ever leaked to the general there would be mass chaos, thus the Republican party could never reveal Obama's true ancestry and the reptilian conspiracy continues.


Poster Comment:

I always thought Obama was just half kaffir and half white trash race traitor. But perhaps he's a David Icke blood-drinking shape-shifting space reptile...

I, for one, welcome our new reptilian overloads. I'll point out to them all my enemies, so they can eat them.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 299.

#1. To: Turtle (#0)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

Why does anyone believe anything he says? I mean, come on!

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-04   16:53:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: PSUSA (#1)

there are some funny as heck vids about the reptilians. turtle, meanwhile buys papa governments version of 9/11 hook line & sinker. so,...

Artisan  posted on  2010-07-04   17:38:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Artisan (#3)

I dont hold that against him.

You have to admit, there are some wacky "theories" out there. They make us look stupid when they start talking about "blue beam" holograms, thermite/thermate (neither are explosives), UFOs, etc. Some are intentional disinfo and others are just plain nuts IMO. In alex jones' case, he's both nuts and a disinfo scumbag.

THe best way is to attack them at the weakest link, and IMO that is bldg. 7. The next weakest link is the pentagon. There are aalso plenty of professionals that agree with us on the towers demolition.

Here is a favorite and I never miss a chance in posting it. killtown.911review.org/pentalawn.html

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-04   19:26:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: PSUSA (#5)

thermite/thermate (neither are explosives)

You saw the structural steel beams in the WTC that were clearly cut (on an angle to facilitate collapse) as if by a gas cutting torch? That''s what the thermite/thermate was likely used for. They make special porcelain molds to hold the thermite in place as it blows through steel box beams like a hot knife through butter. (pix of box beams cut off clean at Ground Zero)

Remember the You Tube video of a can of thermite burning all the way through a car engine block and landing on the ground underneath? Surely you can understand the utility of exothermic cutting charges in a planned demo that was supposed to be the result of something other than a planned collapse.

Photobucket

In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-07-05   0:23:29 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: HOUNDDAWG (#11) (Edited)

I disagree.

Cutting charges are shaped high explosive charges. They cut right thru steel with no problem. Why use thermite when cutting charges have been used for years?

Explosions were heard in the towers and reported on the news.

AFA the pics at the link go, were those cut just before the towers fell or during the cleanup?

In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area.

There was a lot of rubble that was a danger to workers. Getting rid of it was a process. WHere in the process was that pic taken?

Here is where relying on pics can be problematic, because there is no context.

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-05   8:11:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#12)

It takes a great deal more of an explosive charge to blow a steel beam that it takes thermite/thermate to burn it.

Also, explosives used against hard targets have to be tamped, ("Hey, Chief, how come all of the main support columns have sand bags packed against them and wires running out?",) but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them. Also, thermite can be used to precisely cut a steel beam at an angle so it will slide off the "stump" when cut.

Had all of the the beams been blown there would have been no way to make the official fairie tale stick. (Some explosives were used but the witnesses conveniently died) Numerous seismographs would reveal the lies and even self assured know-it-alls couldn't explain them away.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2010-07-05   15:46:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: HOUNDDAWG (#13)

but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them.

I wasn't able to verify that. NOt that I'm calling you a liar, because I'm not. But with this topic specifically, I like to check things out for myself.

All I know about explosives I learned thru my own efforts. I never worked with them myself. And there is no way in hell I'd ever make them. Even though the info on how to do it is out there. You just need to be a chemist and have access to nitric acid for many of them, which is hard to come by. SOme even post their explosions on jewtube, the dumbasses.

All I am saying is that this thermite issue is not important, and AFAIK there is no evidence for it. It's a distraction. Cutting charges can do the job very well. They are used all the time.

Oh well. We agree on the basics. IMO that is enough. I dont think we'll ever get the whole story.

,

PSUSA  posted on  2010-07-05   18:58:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: PSUSA (#14) (Edited)

Debunking 911: Noam Chomsky

"...I am not persuaded by the assumption that much documentation and other evidence has been uncovered. To determine that, we'd have to investigate the alleged evidence. Take, say, the physical evidence. There are ways to assess that: submit it to specialists -- of whom there are thousands -- who have the requisite background in civil-mechanical engineering, materials science, building construction, etc., for review and analysis; and one cannot gain the required knowledge by surfing the internet. In fact, that's been done, by the professional association of civil engineers. Or, take the course pursued by anyone who thinks they have made a genuine discovery: submit it to a serious journal [AGA: Not pay to publish, unquoted by other publications like Open Access] for peer review and publication. To my knowledge, there isn't a single submission."

"I think this reaches the heart of the matter. One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. How do you personally set priorities? That's of course up to you. I've explained my priorities often, in print as well as elsewhere, but we have to make our own judgments."

"...I don't see any reason to accept the presuppositions. As for the consequences, in one of my first interviews after 9/11 I pointed out the obvious: every power system in the world was going to exploit it for its own interests: the Russians in Chechnya, China against the Uighurs, Israel in the occupied territories,... etc., and states would exploit the opportunity to control their own populations more fully through "prevention of terrorism acts" and the like. By the "who gains" argument, every power system in the world could be assigned responsibility for 9/11."

"I think the Bush administration would have had to be utterly insane to try anything like what is alleged, for their own narrow interests, and do not think that serious evidence has been provided to support claims about actions that would not only be outlandish, for their own interests, but that have no remote historical parallel. The effects, however, are all too clear, namely, what I just mentioned: diverting activism and commitment away from the very serious ongoing crimes of state."

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-06   3:59:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, Artisan, *9-11* (#24)

Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-06   4:40:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: wudidiz (#26) (Edited)

Noam Chomsky is not all that bright.

ROTFLAMO!!!

Chomsky, a professor at MIT, has by himself more awards, publications, and references than all your 911 internet poobahs from any and every place in the world put together.

Listen. I'm going to make an attempt to be civil replying to such unfounded remarks, but if you insist on making such flagrantly false statements without a shred of evidence to support them, because of your preconceived agenda found only on the anonymous internet sites, your statements will be seen as nothing more than parroting groupthink brain aberrations.

Noam Chomsky Academic Awards

In the spring of 1969, he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford University; in January 1970, the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at University of Cambridge; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi; in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden; in 1988 the Massey Lectures at the University of Toronto, titled "Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies"; in 1997, The Davie Memorial Lecture on Academic Freedom in Cape Town,[97] and many others.[98]

Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from universities around the world, including from the following:

University of London University of Chicago Loyola University of Chicago Swarthmore College University of Delhi Bard College University of Massachusetts University of Pennsylvania Georgetown University Amherst College University of Cambridge University of Buenos Aires McGill University Universitat Rovira i Virgili Columbia University Villanova University University of Connecticut University of Maine Scuola Normale Superiore University of Western Ontario University of Toronto Harvard University Universidad de Chile University of Bologna Universidad de la Frontera University of Calcutta Universidad Nacional de Colombia Vrije Universiteit Brussel Santo Domingo Institute of Technology Uppsala University University of Athens University of Cyprus Central Connecticut State University National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM)

He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the 1999 Benjamin Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others.[99] He is twice winner of The Orwell Award, granted by The National Council of Teachers of English for "Distinguished Contributions to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language" (in 1987 and 1989).[100]

He is a member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts in Department of Social Sciences.[101]

Chomsky is a member of the Faculty Advisory Board of MIT Harvard Research Journal.[102]

In 2005, Chomsky received an honorary fellowship from the Literary and Historical Society.[103]

In 2007, Chomsky received The Uppsala University (Sweden) Honorary Doctor's degree in commemoration of Carolus Linnaeus.[104]

In February 2008, he received the President's Medal from the Literary and Debating Society of the National University of Ireland, Galway.[105]

In 2010, Chomsky received the Erich Fromm Prize in Stuttgart, Germany.[106]

Chomsky has an ErdQs number of four.

Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying "I don't pay a lot of attention to polls". [107] In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of "Heroes of our time".[108]

Actor Viggo Mortensen with avant-garde guitarist Buckethead dedicated their 2006 album, called Pandemoniumfromamerica to Chomsky.

On January 22, 2010, a special honorary concert for Chomsky was given at Kresge Auditorium at MIT.[109] [110] The concert, attended by Chomsky and dozens of his family and friends, featured music composed by Edward Manukyan and speeches by Chomsky's colleagues, including David Pesetsky of MIT and Gennaro Chierchia, head of the linguistics department at Harvard University.

Criticism Main article: Criticism of Noam Chomsky Much Chomsky criticism revolves around his political views. His status as an intellectual figure within the left wing of American politics has resulted in much criticism from the left and the right.

Bibliography Main article: Bibliography of Noam Chomsky Filmography
Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, Director: Mark Achbar and Peter Wintonick (1992)

Last Party 2000, Director: Rebecca Chaiklin and Donovan Leitch (2001)
Power and Terror: Noam Chomsky in Our Times, Director: John Junkerman (2002)
Distorted Morality—America's War On Terror?, Director: John Junkerman (2003)
Noam Chomsky: Rebel Without a Pause (TV), Director: Will Pascoe (2003)
The Corporation, Directors: Mark Achbar and Jennifer Abbott; Writer: Joel Bakan (2003)
Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land, Directors: Sut Jhally and Bathsheba Ratzkoff (2004)
On Power, Dissent and Racism: A discussion with Noam Chomsky, Journalist: Nicolas Rossier; Producers: Eli Choukri, Baraka Productions (2004)
Lake of Fire, Director: Tony Kaye (2006)
American Feud: A History of Conservatives and Liberals, Director: Richard Hall (2008)
In the Time We've Got, Director: Christopher Ives (2008)
Chomsky & Cie Director: Olivier Azam (out in 2008)
An Inconvenient Tax, Director: Christopher P. Marshall (out in 2009)
The Money Fix, Director: Alan Rosenblith (2009)
Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space, Director: Denis Delestrac (2010)

Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

There's so much debunking of these CT's on just one website, Debunking 911.com, I could spend entire days just cutting, pasting and whacking every CT argument that's ever been posted. From there directly. With quotes from successful people, arguments, sources, exposes of lies and half-truths published on CT sites that distort original messages, etc.

However, as I've posted repeatedly through the years, and Chomsky notes too, the real damage done by the 911 Twoofers is to move opposition from being concerned with substantive issues to fringe circles, where the PTB prefer it to be so they can point at the collective lack of practicality and intelligence of those saying they want change.

So I'm not going to get too consumed with rebutting every CT because people with common sense know they're not right to begin with and it's a waste of time and energy to put a lot of effort into time-traveling into that Alice-in- Wonderland rabbit hole.

But don't try to push me too much on the issue or you'll get rebuttals you can't refute in spades.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-06   5:30:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: AGAviator (#27)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-06   8:26:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Eric Stratton (#29) (Edited)

Oh boy, a long laundry list of establishment blow-job credentials.

OK ko00khack, how're your "blow job credentials" for "Professor" Steven Jones, who isn't even acknowledged by his former BYU Physics Department and which relieved him of teaching and put him out to pasture, and can't even show any net yield of useful free energy in any of his claimed "cold fusion" experiments.

Or your "blow job credentials" for jerkwad Niels Harritt, who submitted samples of paint dust 6 years after the Twin Towers collapsed, and waving a bag of the stuff around, claiming it was extremely explosive and flammable.

What the eff was the idiot doing bringing a supposedly explosive and pyrotechnically active substance to one press conference, ignoring all safety precautions that would have been needed, then failing to produce any kind of demonstration showing the goddamn stuff could even be ignited, much less made to explode.

Hmmmm???

So keep your one-liner dismissals of people who have intelligence like Chomsky, to your k00ksites. Because everybody else sees them as cheap shot mental masturbation by a zombie group of losers.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-06   8:57:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: AGAviator (#31)

deleted

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-06   12:17:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Eric Stratton (#34)

I suppose that you're also one of those that still thinks that a "Harvard education" or an "Ivy League education" means that that person is intelligent too.

Well, there certainly is a lot of competition to get into those institutions, and there is certainly more than a proportional share of publications, patents, and prominent public figures coming out of them.

And FYI the person we were discussing, Noam Chomsky, is a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which is neither "Harvard" or "Ivy League." It is one of America's premier institutes for science, second only to Cal Tech which has produced so many usesful and workable patents and inventions used in programs like the flight to the moon. That actually effing do what they announce they will do before the rockets take off. And Chomsky is well respected intellectually by his colleagues at MIT, even though he does receive some criticism for his political perspective.

Unlike a BYU CT fruitcake who can't even make a physical device that yields more energy than it consumes after claiming he's discovered cold fusion, or even have his department allow him continue teaching.

Your denigration of successful people is really the root of all CT postulating. You have nothing, you've proved nothing even after 10 years, certain people have exhaustively debunked you after wading through your distortions and half truths word by word, so you simply dismiss anyone who would challenge you as being part of the problem. That's what being a "loser" is in plain English.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-06   12:35:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: AGAviator (#37)

the flight to the moon

so you believe that one too, eh? :-) your wordy defense of the so-called establishment is not going to convince anyone. because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job. so your list of 'credentialed experts' can work both ways.Also, your use of God's name in vain in an internet squabble reveals much that you are lacking. you wrote 'You have nothing'; but more appropriate is the Scripture 'Without Me, you can do nothing' (John 15:5)

Artisan  posted on  2010-07-06   20:56:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Artisan (#61) (Edited)

the flight to the moon so you believe that one too, eh? :-)...because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job.

Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications.......

Good one!!!!!

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-06   22:51:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: AGAviator, Artisan, wudidiz, all (#62)

the flight to the moon so you believe that one too, eh? :-)...because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job.

Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications.......

Good one!!!!!

Earth to AGGravator!

Earth to AGGravator!

Some of them are in the public record.

I repeat: Some of them are in the public record.

For example the Head of West German Intelligence.

The problem with using any "debunker" website is that they have an agenda other than the truth. They will NEVER publish or post anything which damages their debunking case. This is in contrast with most of the 911 Truth sites (the legitimate ones not government PsyOp sites) who will publish and/or post anything which is relevant. That also applies to any flavor of so-called "skeptic" and/or debunker websites. Invariably you can count on them to twist and misrepresent facts, and the so-called debunkers have repeatedly been proven wrong, if not outright frauds using false information such as Popular Mechanics. Another favorite is "Snopes" which was outed as being just two people, no research capabilities beyond standard search techniques, and wrong. Because a website pushes the "Official Truth™" does not mean it is THE truth. If you hadn't noticed the government frequently lies and has a large disinformation presence on the 'net.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-07   13:25:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Original_Intent (#63)

The problem with using any "debunker" website is that they have an agenda other than the truth. They will NEVER publish or post anything which damages their debunking case. This is in contrast with most of the 911 Truth sites

Ohhhhkayyyyy. Tell me how many "911 Truth Sites" have put out the following;

Just for starters...

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   13:47:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: AGAviator (#65)

WTC7 - Pull means "pull with cables"...

LOL!!!

Yeah right, I'm sure they were positioning cranes over WTC7 right before it fell down...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   14:08:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: FormerLurker (#69)

How many people have tried to con us with that lame-ass explanation of what they want us to believe Silverstein meant? Some have tried to claim he meant to "pull the firefighters" but that wouldn't have been his call and they had already been out for a good while before that anyway. People who believe the government's stupid theory will believe just about anything (except the truth).

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-07   14:12:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: James Deffenbach (#72)

How many people have tried to con us with that lame-ass explanation of what they want us to believe Silverstein meant?

"Pulling it with cables" is a new one on me, and certainly one of the most ludicrous and ridiculous explanations I've heard.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   14:20:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: FormerLurker (#76)

"Pulling it with cables" is a new one on me, and certainly one of the most ludicrous and ridiculous explanations

You're so easily amused. So tell me how "pull" means "pull with exlosives."

Do you know that explosives "push" things away, not "pull" them towards?

BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   14:22:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: AGAviator (#78)

You're so easily amused. So tell me how "pull" means "pull with exlosives."

Do you know that explosives "push" things away, not "pull" them towards?

BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

I'm not saying it was or wasn't meant to imply "pull with explosives". I was simply saying "pulling it with cables" is quite insane, since it would have been impossible to do so.

Apparently, the "pull it" statement from Silverstein is a clever disinfo tactic meant to muddy the waters and lead people astray.

Whether he said it or not makes no difference, and doesn't change the events or how they occured.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   14:28:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: FormerLurker (#81)

I'm not saying it was or wasn't meant to imply "pull with explosives".

"Pull" and "explosives" are mutually exclusive to cogent English speakers.

Any and all assertions that Silverstein said "pull" as a substitute for "explode" are too idiotic to merit any response except ridicule.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   14:32:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: AGAviator (#83)

Metaphors must be new to your planet.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2010-07-07   15:02:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#96)

Metaphors must be new to your planet.

Metaphors compare similar items. They do not conflate contradictory and opposite things with each other.

But thanks for playing.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   15:06:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: AGAviator (#99)

But thanks for playing.

My turn

Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth?

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-07   15:10:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: Flintlock (#101)

Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth?

As far as people and motives, the most truthful account of 911 comes from Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 which I posted above, as well as several other statements OBL made then about wanting to bankrupt America through never-ending guerilla warfare, which is quickly coming to fruition.

As far as the forensic analyses of specific factors, done by professional engineers, building industry experts, law enforcement, security and accounting industry researchers, the facts are largely settled decisively.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   15:21:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: AGAviator (#103)

As far as the forensic analyses of specific factors, done by professional engineers, building industry experts, law enforcement, security and accounting industry researchers, the facts are largely settled decisively.

Apparently you are quite the idiot, since it is those very people who are questioning the official story.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   15:27:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: FormerLurker (#105)

Since it is those very people who are questioning the official story

Bull flocking shit.

Show papers written by any of them backed by evidence and not internet k00klather hot air. Also show where they give their speeches and lectures.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   15:34:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: AGAviator (#107)

Bull flocking shit.

Try this on for size Einstein...

1222 architectural and engineering professionals and 8794 other supporters including A&E students have signed the petition demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   15:39:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#167. To: FormerLurker (#111)

Try this on for size Einstein...

1222 architectural and engineering professionals and 8794 other supporters including A&E students have signed the petition demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation.

From your own link

I don't claim to know what really happened on 9/11. I cannot examine the facts of the matter first hand. And I don't have the experience to know what's possible and what is unlikely regarding terrorist activities or military operations. For that analysis, I need to rely on experts. Many of the government employees have spent large portions of their careers studying espionage, terrorism, and military operations throughout the world and have personally planned and carried out United States' military and intelligence activities.

Nor am I an architect, structural engineer, or commercial or military pilot. Their expressions of concern about the official account of 9/11 are also extremely important. I applaud the integrity and courage of all of the individuals listed on the website for publicly supporting the search for the truth about 9/11 in spite of opposition by our government and lack of support in the mainstream news media.

Somebody claiming he doesn't know WTF is going on does not corroborate your claims of "official government" theories being false.

And he explicitly wants to rely on the same educated and accomplished professionals I cite, and you trash as being part of the official conspiracy.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   17:41:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#168. To: AGAviator (#167)

Somebody claiming he doesn't know WTF is going on does not corroborate your claims of "official government" theories being false.

Provide the link, and cite the person's name. I don't see it anywhere at the link I posted.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   17:43:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: FormerLurker (#168)

Provide the link, and cite the person's name. I don't see it anywhere at the link I posted.

You posted it, you should research it. It's in there.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   17:44:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#172. To: AGAviator (#170)

You posted it, you should research it. It's in there.

I take it you fabricated what you wrote. Here's one of the reports from the link that I actually posted...


News - News Releases By AE911Truth
Written by Darcy Wearing and Richard Gage, AIA   

Thursday, 24 June 2010 18:55

Having had the privilege of speaking with Tom Sullivan, an actual explosive- charge placement technician, we have some new insights to pass along as to how controlled demolition works, where it started, and the effect that 9/11 had on the demolition industry. Sullivan gained his experience as an employee of the leading firm in this field, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI).  Sullivan stresses though “I do not in anyway represent CDI and what I have to say is based on my own experience and training,”

Sullivan attended high school with Doug Loizeaux of the Loizeaux family. The Loizeaux family, through the father Jack, independently started the whole controlled-demolition industry and turned it into a highly profitable business. Sullivan, before he became connected to CDI, was an independent photographer during his early years in Maryland. He would be sent to CD sites and take still pictures of the jobs.  He became infatuated with the CD industry. The time came when he would do both, being the placer of the “cutter charges” on the primary joints, and photographing the jobs for promoting the business. Soon he would switch to full-time employee status of CDI -- as verified by AE911Truth’s verification team.

"It was very interesting, but also very hard work, long hours, especially in the cold weather," Sullivan reflects. He stated that the days began early, around 6 a.m., and they would work until the sun was down. Sullivan had the experience of preparing a building by placing the cutter charges throughout the primary joints, and then, of course, watching it all come down.


Sullivan notes that many weeks are required to “prep,” or weaken the buildings before demolitions. Steel frame buildings don’t just fall into their footprints at free-fall without major work throughout the building – even some before the placement of explosives.  Sullivan emphasized as an aside, “Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period.”

One of Sullivan’s most exciting jobs was the colossal Kingdome in whose reinforced concrete structure he personally placed hundreds of deadly explosive charges. 

Working for CDI was, Sullivan stated, “a very unique experience.”  He also said, "they were a close-knit family -- referring to the familial values of the Loizeauxs." “I learned from watching," said Sullivan. "There is no school that will teach you this, just hands on hard work." Sullivan took hundreds of project photos, through which he developed a deep passion for the trade.

When asked, what made CDI the best in the business, he commented, “their family had all the experience because they ’invented’ the art of CD. They spent years traveling around the world, showing and educating people how this art form works.”

Unfortunately, the business came to a screeching halt after 9/11. "People were scared -- if they were to hear a loud bang it was probably some kind of terrorist attack," says Sullivan in frustration. "Fear took over and there was no more business." Even Mark Loizeaux (CDI’s President) has been quoted as saying 9/11 ruined him. Sullivan had no choice but to leave CDI. Curiously, CDI had a role in the WTC cleanup through a subcontract under Tully Construction. On September 22, 2001, CDI submitted a 25-page "preliminary" document to New York City's Department of Design and Construction, a plan related to the removal and recycling of the steel.[¹]

Sullivan stated that he knew from the first day that the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 was a classic controlled implosion. Asked how he thought it might have been done he posited, “looking at the building it wouldn’t be a problem -- once you gain access to the elevator shafts…then a team of expert loaders would have hidden access to the core columns and beams.  The rest can be accomplished with just the right kind of explosives for the job. Thermite can be used as well.”

Brent Blanchard, the photographer from the controlled demolition company Protec, has said, in criticism of the CD theory, that there would have had to been detonation cords strung all over the place and casings left in the rubble pile from the cutter charges.  So we asked for a response from Sullivan.  He noted that:

Remote wireless detonators have been available for years. Look at any action movie -- and of course the military has them.  The reason most contractors don’t use them is that they are too expensive -- but in a project with a huge budget it would be no problem. As for the casings -- everyone in the industry, including Blanchard, would know that RDX explosive cutter charges are completely consumed when they go off -- nothing is left. And in the case of Thermite cutter charges, that may also be the case. Thermite self-consuming cutter charge casings have been around since first patented back in 1984.


We asked Sullivan if all the floors in WTC  7 would have to be loaded with explosives in order for a successful controlled demolition.  He responded,

No, with steel framed buildings you really need only to load the bottom third to bring the building down. While at CDI we had a job in Hartford Conn, the CNG building, where we did just that.  And it worked out beautifully.

Recalling that Ron Craig, a Hollywood movie explosions expert claimed in a debate with us, that there would have been many blocks of broken windows if it were a controlled demolition.  Sullivan reflected,

The key word here is controlled demolition – in other words careful placement of charges -- always focused and precise.  We are not talking about setting off a bomb here.  The amount and type of explosives is an art and collateral damage can often be completely avoided.

We asked about Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator of NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) who claimed publically in his infamous press conference at the “unveiling” of the Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 that there would have been a loud boom coming from a massive explosion if this had been a controlled demolition, and asked him about that.  Sullivan said, “With any implosion there is never just one big explosion but rather waves of smaller explosions -- not unlike the percussion section in a symphony - - as each loaded floor is progressively set off.”

And as Sullivan watched the towers collapse that day, like so many did, he pondered at how fast it all took place, and how suddenly and symmetrically they were brought down. "I knew it was an explosive event as soon as I saw it, there was no question in my mind," said Sullivan. Most of us agree -- it's not by chance that the first tower just happened to collapse -- then the second in the same manner. What convinced him completely is when he watched Tower 7 fall that day, "I mean, come on, it was complete destruction. I've seen buildings fall like that for years -- that was the end game for me." Keep in mind that Sullivan did this for a living for several years -- it is like second nature for him to see this type of demolition. If anybody would know, it should be him.  But we went ahead and asked him, “Is there any chance that normal office fires (the official cause of the ’collapse’) could have been responsible for the smooth, symmetrical, free-fall acceleration of building 7? “Not a chance,” he retorted. We just wanted to be sure.

When we asked him if he followed any of the 9/11 Commission hearings or that of the NIST reporting, he had the same answer for both "I have no tolerance for people who lie to me about what I know to be true. I threw my hands up in disgust and never watched another hearing after the first. As for NIST, I didn't even watch because I knew what to expect." He did however follow the final report on the collapse of Tower 7 and said it angered him that they could actually convince so many of their fraudulent claims.

Sullivan first came into contact with AE911Truth through a friend that sent him the 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD. He watched it and was very excited that there was actually an organization out there trying to inform people of what he was trying to say since that fateful day. “AE911Truth is the most focused and organized group there is today in the 9/11 truth movement.  There is no speculation," he said. "Blueprint for Truth is factual and impressive information based on science and physics, and was clear and concise." When asked if he agreed with the evidence the DVD brings forth, Sullivan responded, "It contains extremely compelling evidence."

The final question we asked in this interview was, "How many architects and engineers does it take speaking in unison until people hear that there is a problem?" His response, "As the number grows it will be harder and harder to deny them -- but deny them they will."

Note: 1) Sullivan came out from the East Coast to deliver a short but electrifying presentation on Friday and Saturday night, May 7th & 8th at the joint presentation of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Firefighters for 9/11 Truth.  He joined Richard Gage, AIA, and Erik Lawyer on stage for 10 minutes and answered some key questions about the demolition industry, the CDI family of Loizeauxs, and the way the 3 WTC skyscrapers were destroyed.  Prior to these milestone events he appeared with Gage and Lawyer on KPFA radio Berkeley on the program “Guns & Butter” with host Bonnie Faulkner who had a number of great questions for him.

2) "DO NOT COPY" watermarks on images were added by Tom Sullivan. These images may not be copied other than in the context of this article, or with his specific approval.


FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   17:55:41 ET  (5 images) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#174. To: FormerLurker (#172)

Interesting how in one of the photos it shows them placing an angled cutter charge. Hmmmmmmmm? Now where have we seen a steel girder cut off like that before?

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-07   17:58:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#176. To: Original_Intent (#174)

Interesting how in one of the photos it shows them placing an angled cutter charge. Hmmmmmmmm? Now where have we seen a steel girder cut off like that before?

Hmmm.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   18:02:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: FormerLurker (#176) (Edited)

I've already posted this picture 3 times.

It's a construction iron worker adjusting his cutting torch in a man basket getting ready to make your angular cuts. Giving off {shudder} yellow sulfur- like smoke as he fine tunes the oxygen supply.

Those 3-4 foot long thingies in the basket are cutting torches.

Also note the X-shaped cut behind him and immediately to his right. Another cutting torch mark.

Try to keep up.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   18:10:06 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: AGAviator (#180)

http://www.debunking911.com/cut.jpg

Looks like the guy is painting or something. What's that supposed to prove? Oh, you say he's CUTTING the column? I don't see a cutting torch in his hand.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   18:14:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#190. To: FormerLurker (#184)

Oh, you say he's CUTTING the column? I don't see a cutting torch in his hand.

Pretty lame. He's up there to cut, and that's what the elongated items in the basket are.

This is from the same place the CT's have gotten their cherry- picked angular cut photos, so do your research and find out what that man is doing in the middle of all those torched columns.

Ever used either a cutting torch or thermite? I've used both. Those are torch marks, not thermite. How the hell do you get an amorphous blob of thermite to produce a neat vertical "X" as shown directly to the right and the rear of the man in the basket?

QED.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-07   18:20:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: AGAviator (#190) (Edited)

Pretty lame. He's up there to cut, and that's what the elongated items in the basket are.

Regardless, we don't know for sure because the debris was carted off before any real investigation was performed on the debris for evidence.

Neither you nor I can claim the above cut was made by a worker with a torch, or thermite. HOWEVER, there IS evidence of thermite, and molten metal WAS seen flowing out of the building BEFORE it collapsed. There is no way in hell the fires were hot enough to melt steel.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-07   18:25:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#204. To: FormerLurker (#192) (Edited)

Neither you nor I can claim the above cut was made by a worker with a torch, or thermite

I've used both oxygen cutting torches and themite.

You've used neither.

Burning thermite is an amorphous blob that does not and cannot make straight vertical cuts, period.

If you had ever been within 10 yards of thermite for even 5 seconds you would know that beyond any doubt.

The fact that you choose to quote some people so dumb as to claim it does make straight cuts sideways and vertically, but who have never been near the stuff personally, shows a mindset so steeped in groupthink it is willing to disregard direct evidence in favor of preconceived theories.

Thermite Burning

In the above photo, show me the pretty straight lines burning thermite makes.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   0:32:41 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#208. To: AGAviator (#204)

I've used both oxygen cutting torches and themite.

To do what, light your government issue crack pipe?

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-08   0:59:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#210. To: Flintlock (#208)

To do what, light your government issue crack pipe?

For you that would be a step forward. It would get your head out of your own crack.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   1:08:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#211. To: AGAviator (#210)

It would get your head out of your own crack.

While you have your head up the government's crack.

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-08   1:30:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#213. To: Flintlock (#211) (Edited)

While you have your head up the government's crack

Tell me how burning thermite - which produces molten burning iron flowing freely - makes straight up and down vertical or angled cuts, one liner crackboy.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   1:35:03 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: AGAviator, all, *9-11* (#213)

It really doesn't matter if thermite was used or not. It's obvious that controlled demolition of some sort was used to destroy the towers. Especially building 7.

What do you think of this picture?

Or this one?

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-08   1:40:34 ET  (2 images) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: wudidiz (#214)

It really doesn't matter if thermite was used or not

Only to you, after that line shows it leads nowhere.

What do you think of this picture?

I think this one is a lot better because it tells a lot more.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   1:50:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: AGAviator (#215)

What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this?

What sort of force would create this?

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-08   2:06:49 ET  (2 images) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: wudidiz (#216)

What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this?

Due to unshown events prior to the photos, the columns are already on the verge of breaking apart in the shown pictures.

They're on the verge of breaking apart because they were violently separated from other building materials that were attached to them and seriously damaged to a point where they are ready to fall apart.

With additional shaking and movement, the columns separate into pieces on their way to the ground.

What sort of force would create this?

Gravity exerting its force on 40+ floors accelerating and falling on top of each other.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   2:20:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: AGAviator (#218)

What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this?

Due to unshown events prior to the photos, the columns are already on the verge of breaking apart in the shown pictures.

They're on the verge of breaking apart because they were violently separated from other building materials that were attached to them and seriously damaged to a point where they are ready to fall apart.

With additional shaking and movement, the columns separate into pieces on their way to the ground.

What sort of force would create this?

Gravity exerting its force on 40+ floors accelerating and falling on top of each other.

They're steel columns. They disintegrated. Why?

You actually think gravity will melt concrete and steel together like that?

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-08   2:37:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#220. To: wudidiz (#219)

They're steel columns. They disintegrated. Why?

For about 8 hours, they were subject to (1) Being violently torn away from other building materials they were attached to, subjected to tensions, torsions, and twists in the process, (2) Being hit by heavy other steel pieces falling at significant speeds from other buildings, (3) Depending on location, being subject to uneven heating from out of control fires, continuously fed by a large self-contained fuel system, and other unknown factors.

You actually think gravity will melt concrete and steel together like that?

I see things that have been crushed under many tons of pressure, not melted. However now that you mention it, there were smouldering underground fires and hot spots lasting for weeks afterwards of the collapses. Those are effects of the collapses, not causes.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   2:56:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#221. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, Original_Intent, ALL (#220)

Wow, you are here 24/7 aren't you. I wonder why that is...

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-08   3:02:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#226. To: FormerLurker (#221) (Edited)

Wow, you are here 24/7 aren't you. I wonder why that is...

I hate liars, groupthink k00ks, and mobs.

I stopped posting on 07/07 at 18:22 and resumed posting on 07/08 at 0:23

You stopped posting on 07/07 at 21:19 and resumed posting on 07/08 at 3:02.

When I started this little discourse, I clearly saw where it was going to go. It never fails that when it gets right down to it, the k00ks feel more comfortable discussing their wacked out theories and eventually trashing and spewing obscenities at anyone who disputes them, than they are looking at the real issues which underly US policies.

Trying to give you all some alternate routes of discourse, I clearly stated (1) There is a USreal connection, however it takes a twisted path through Washington, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and OBL Afghan training camps, and (2) Noam Chomsky, one of the premier intellectuals of the 20th Century, stated that elaborate CT theories take discourse about post 911 events into areas not especially useful for changing policies and actions.

The groupthink mob response of course was the usual all or nothing diatribes about their unsupported theories, and the trashing of Chomsky and similarly prominent professors as an intellectual lightweight. And then the attacks on me. Not that I care.

Meanwhile, lionizing k00k professors Steven Jones - not even supported by his own University, and whose only "peer reviewed publication" was from an $800 hole in the wall in Abu Dubhai.

And Niels Harritt, who alleges nanothermite was used at the WTC centers, but says

(1) Go talk to the USG about what it is, he can't say,
(2) Alleges his mystery substance is both an explosive and an accelerant at the same time - a truly idiotic claim,
(3) Doesn't know whether there were 10 or 100 tons of it,
(4) Can't specify the methods and means by which it was detonated, and
(5) Can't explain why so many (unknown) tons of this high tech so-called cutting edge stuff failed to explode and was just lying around the sites waiting to be picked up by the truckload - without any safety precautions needed by the cleanup workers I might add.
So you all would rather do your groupthink on your mental island, fine. Just don't expect anyone to rescue you.

As far as your fairy tales no Arabs were on the crashed planes.

Wrong.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   11:47:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#228. To: AGAviator (#226)

It never fails that when it gets right down to it, the k00ks feel more comfortable discussing their wacked out theories and eventually trashing and spewing obscenities at anyone who disputes them, than they are looking at the real issues which underly US policies.

Have you been repeatedly called a "psy-op" yet? Until then, you can't join my league up the food-chain; this is when they start pursuing the selective "ignore filter" feature.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-08   12:16:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#230. To: buckeroo (#228)

Have you been repeatedly called a "psy-op" yet

Nah, they went straight to their homoerotic projections.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   12:18:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#233. To: AGAviator (#230)

Nah, they went straight to their homoerotic projections.

WOW! You must have really stirred the hornet's nest up. It is proof that you can claim victory on the 9/11 fiasco for this thread.

There is no way to tell these guys that the US government isn't smart enough to pull off this sort of crap. What the government does however is react as in the US Patriot Act which is often WRONG; it is subversive and counter productive and yields to later conspiracy theories.

Still, I miss the days when other posters challenged these guys. Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-08   12:37:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#243. To: buckeroo (#233)

Still, I miss the days when other posters challenged these guys. Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.

How would you know? You've never tried. You're always on about some bs like "Peak Oil" or "global warming." And no, Aggravator hasn't won anything on this thread. He's just proven that he believes the government's insane conspiracy theory, the wackiest one of all.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-08   13:27:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#245. To: James Deffenbach (#243)

You're always on about some bs like "Peak Oil" or "global warming."

I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ... although, I still think chemtrails and crop circles are for the mere brain-dead; I really find the stuff great humour in these days where so many other events are occurring.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-08   13:38:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#246. To: buckeroo (#245)

I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ...

Uh huh. How can they be "world class issues" when they aren't issues at all to most people? Most people have figured out that Al was lying to them and some of us knew years ago that the oil companies were lying about "Peak Oil." So you keep dwelling on bs like it's something very important. I guess someone needs to.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-08   13:53:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#253. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#246)

I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ...

Uh huh. How can they be "world class issues" when they aren't issues at all to most people? Most people have figured out that Al was lying to them and some of us knew years ago that the oil companies were lying about "Peak Oil." So you keep dwelling on bs like it's something very important. I guess someone needs to.

Well, at least he has job even if it is "catapulting the propaganda". A man's gotta eat and Sterno™ ain't that cheap any more.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-08   19:21:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#255. To: Original_Intent (#253)

Sure, we all have to get our grocery money some way. But don't you hate it when people are pissin' on your leg and telling you that it's raining? That is what the global warmists and Peak Oilers remind me of.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-08   19:35:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: James Deffenbach (#255) (Edited)

Sure, we all have to get our grocery money some way. But don't you hate it when people are pissin' on your leg and telling you that it's raining? That is what the global warmists and Peak Oilers remind me of.

Along with those who allegedly "beeeeeeeeeelieeeeeve" the "Official Conspiracy Theory" of "19ArabsWhoHateUsCuzWe'reFree" armed with Box Cutters could hijack 4 airliners, of which none of them were competent to fly, then leisurely fly for 2 hours unintercepted in the most heavily monitored airspace on the planet, and then manage to fly those aircraft through aerobatic maneuvers that would challenge a Master Pilot and crash them into major buildings for Allah*.

*While leaving an incriminating trail by going out the night before drinking and whoring like gut liddle Muslims leaving a Koran conveniently in a bar where they had been drinking (forbidden to Devout Muslims) and leaving ever so conveniently a suitcase in an undistinguished car which contained incriminating materials and which was miraculously found within hours of the event {who had also been living with unmarried non-Muslim women in areas surrounding major military bases where they had been trained (and that last IS documented)}. Not to mention the immaculate unsinged Passports that survived the fireball that totally destroyed an aircraft, its occupants, and all other identifying information.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-08   19:49:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#280. To: buckeroo, turtle (#259) (Edited)

then manage to fly those aircraft through aerobatic maneuvers that would challenge a Master Pilot and crash them into major buildings for Allah*.

Actually, the hit on the Pentagon by Flight 77 is an example of marginal pilot struggling to control too much airplane, but assisted in his last moments by extra lift caused by a high speed "clean" approach to the target.

The offices of the Pentagon's top brass including Rumsfeld, who had to have been the major target for Flight 77, face the Potomac northwards, where the 270/330 degree turn started.

The airplane was lined up correctly to go down the Potomac, then put itself into a hard right turn and fly directly into the north-facing offices including Rumsfeld and top DoD officials.

However, because the planners and the pilot were unfamiliar with flying large airplanes, they didn't take into account that power dives create extra lift, especially on larger birds.

This means when Hanjour started his power right turn, trying to descend 7,000 feet in a few minutes while not cutting back on power, he got way more lift than he expected, and could no longer hit his original target facing north.

So now he finds himself overshooting the Pentagon, trying to get his plane down while traveling 400 mph, and needing some other place to target to hit the building at all.

So to compromise he widened his turn radius and now was targeting the Pentagon's back instead of its facade.

As he got closer to the ground coming in from the back, Hanjour got even more lift from what's called "ground effect." Aircraft flying close to the earth, especially low-wing "clean" planes without landing gear down or flaps deployed, float on a cushion of air that's trapped between the plane's underbody and the earth. When you're flying clean and close to the earth, it's just about impossible to contact the ground without a major effort. The trapped air cushion keeps you from hitting the earth in just about all circumstances.

Flight 77 did clip a number of light poles on its way in. The engines and the airplane didn't dig big holes into the ground because the wingfs and fuselage were partially shielded by ground effect. When they did hit things, the hits were shearing impacts which glanced off the objects and allowed the plane to continue moving forward.

The "Small Hole in the Pentagon" Claim

Folks, the hole in the Pentagon is big enough for all of the bulky parts of a 757 to crash through-- about 15 feet on the second floor and possibly 80 feet on the first floor. There is a photo of metal wrapped around a column and other photos of aircraft debris within the building. Why should they fake this?

There was debris of shredded aircraft skin on the front lawn. Why should they plant this material? How could they be sure they wouldn't be seen planting it?

The first image of the security camera at the guard shack in all likelihood was digitally manipulated to cause dissension and distraction in our 9-11 skeptics/truth community (one clue was that it had the wrong date attached to it).

If someone precut the bolts of the light poles and rigged them to fall over, wouldn't that leave a possibility for the automobile drivers to notice that and report some funny business on this matter? Those who say it was stage- managed to look like a 757 crashed there are just making things more complicated for them to pull it off. Why should they stage-manage the Pentagon crash at all?

I think it is most logical that the hijackers, if they were truly even on the aircraft, were hijacked themselves by remote control technology. This is what makes the most sense with the available evidence. People like Eric Hufschmid, who was one of the first to have a big impact on persuading many of us that flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, upon further discovery, have proven to me to be an incompetent researcher. And possibly even worse, he has shown a desire to discredit our work by association. He has shown a real disdain for a democratic republic.

He holds himself up as being smarter than most of the public even though all the while he peddles nonsense about the Apollo moon landings as being a hoax. If you don't believe this is the case about Hufschmid just read the junk he has on his web site: www.erichufschmid.net

Also, if you haven't seen my web page featuring an exchange with Eric over the Apollo business please do so. Be sure to read what he said in his last letter (this reveals his fascist pro military dictatorship leanings): http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/apollohoax.html

I don't mean to give offense to those busy people who are new to this Pentagon research or who just haven't gotten around to a study of what evidence is available and through no fault of their own have been swayed by the presentations of people like Hufschmid. I, at one time, counted myself in that same category. Hufschmid has shown that he has a lot of time available and hence has no excuses for presenting his falsities, even after a couple of us have tried to show him his errors, he hasn't budged.

Vince Sauve

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-08   21:10:37 ET  (3 images) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#293. To: AGAviator (#280)

wow I bet you would trade a cow for magic beans too. riddle me this oh keeper of all official conspiracy theory knowledge; why was the initial report that a truck bomb had gone off at the pentagon, and were you beachloser in another life?

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-09   1:12:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#295. To: IRTorqued, buckeroo, turtle, PSUSA, RickyJ (#293) (Edited)

riddle me this oh keeper of all official conspiracy theory knowledge; why was the initial report that a truck bomb had gone off at the pentagon

The only place such report existed was on an internet k00ksite.

Hers is a partial list of passengers on Flight 77, reported by USA Today.

None of them was ever seen by their families after the aircraft took off. Many of them got funeral remains during and after the investigation.

What happened to them if Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon as stated.

USA Today: American Flight 77 Victims at a Glance

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-09   1:41:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#297. To: AGAviator (#295)

The government is your friend, they never lie, believe me not your gut instincts

All is well, obama is your enlightened master

Obey, Obey, Obey!

WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE!

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-09   2:45:12 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#299. To: Flintlock (#297)

WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE!

Wouldn't surprise me. He is not the only one either.

farmfriend  posted on  2010-07-09   2:51:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 299.

#307. To: farmfriend (#299)

He is not the only one either.

bet on it

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-09 03:08:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#316. To: farmfriend, turtle, buckeroo (#299) (Edited)

WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE!

Wouldn't surprise me. He is not the only one either.

Braindead cattle like you, claiming to lead but actually serving to divert your "sheeple" from more productive pursuits - as Noam Chomsky pointed out - are the classic "False Front Op."

Facts "9/11 Skeptics" Don't Want You to See

False theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign policies addressed, for example US support of Israel.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-09 08:24:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 299.

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