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Title: Barack Obama: Shape Shifting Reptilian Overlord or Pure Human?
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Published: Jul 4, 2010
Author: russell huebsch
Post Date: 2010-07-04 14:41:52 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 16960
Comments: 362
Is Barack Obama really a shape shifting reptilian humanoid from a far away galaxy bent on the enslavement of the human race? According to David Icke, who claims on his web site that most world leaders come from a line of reptilians originating in the Alpha Draconis, Barack Obama is most likely a blood drinking shape shifter bent on progressing the New World Order. Icke's reptilian theory makes the claim that reptilians plan to control humanity and other civilizations through fear and negative emotion, a food source for the reptilian. Icke believes the reptilians plan for world domination started to unravel with the September 11 attacks on New York and Obama's presidency will lead us into this "New World Order", but is this just mere babbling from a sick mind or does this theory have some legitimacy? Here are signs that the Obama reptilian conspiracy is true. "Change we need": Has Obama told us all along that he is a changeling/shape shifting reptilian? Think about it, change always happens when a new president enters office, perhaps Obama's corporeal body is crying out to the world that a shape shifting reptilian alien has hijacked his avatar. "Change" might also be a code word for reptilian dictators across the globe that America has elected another shape shifter as president. Even Adolph Hitler claimed to bring change for the German people, but as we know all the only thing the world received from Hitler was millions of lost lives and the genocide of an entire race of people. Whatever this "change" really means it certainly does not bode well for the future of America and even worse for the human race. The questionable birth certificate: Why would any presidential candidate try so desperately to hide a real birth certificate? Perhaps because reptilian overlords do not receive birth certificates, they congeal out of a pile of goo! The voting public would never vote for a space reptilian and if the plan for world domination ever leaked to the general there would be mass chaos, thus the Republican party could never reveal Obama's true ancestry and the reptilian conspiracy continues.
Poster Comment: I always thought Obama was just half kaffir and half white trash race traitor. But perhaps he's a David Icke blood-drinking shape-shifting space reptile... I, for one, welcome our new reptilian overloads. I'll point out to them all my enemies, so they can eat them.
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#1. To: Turtle (#0)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke Why does anyone believe anything he says? I mean, come on! .
there are some funny as heck vids about the reptilians. turtle, meanwhile buys papa governments version of 9/11 hook line & sinker. so,...
I dont hold that against him. You have to admit, there are some wacky "theories" out there. They make us look stupid when they start talking about "blue beam" holograms, thermite/thermate (neither are explosives), UFOs, etc. Some are intentional disinfo and others are just plain nuts IMO. In alex jones' case, he's both nuts and a disinfo scumbag. THe best way is to attack them at the weakest link, and IMO that is bldg. 7. The next weakest link is the pentagon. There are aalso plenty of professionals that agree with us on the towers demolition. Here is a favorite and I never miss a chance in posting it. killtown.911review.org/pentalawn.html .
You saw the structural steel beams in the WTC that were clearly cut (on an angle to facilitate collapse) as if by a gas cutting torch? That''s what the thermite/thermate was likely used for. They make special porcelain molds to hold the thermite in place as it blows through steel box beams like a hot knife through butter. (pix of box beams cut off clean at Ground Zero) Remember the You Tube video of a can of thermite burning all the way through a car engine block and landing on the ground underneath? Surely you can understand the utility of exothermic cutting charges in a planned demo that was supposed to be the result of something other than a planned collapse. In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area.
I disagree. Cutting charges are shaped high explosive charges. They cut right thru steel with no problem. Why use thermite when cutting charges have been used for years? Explosions were heard in the towers and reported on the news. AFA the pics at the link go, were those cut just before the towers fell or during the cleanup? In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area. There was a lot of rubble that was a danger to workers. Getting rid of it was a process. WHere in the process was that pic taken? Here is where relying on pics can be problematic, because there is no context. .
It takes a great deal more of an explosive charge to blow a steel beam that it takes thermite/thermate to burn it. Also, explosives used against hard targets have to be tamped, ("Hey, Chief, how come all of the main support columns have sand bags packed against them and wires running out?",) but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them. Also, thermite can be used to precisely cut a steel beam at an angle so it will slide off the "stump" when cut. Had all of the the beams been blown there would have been no way to make the official fairie tale stick. (Some explosives were used but the witnesses conveniently died) Numerous seismographs would reveal the lies and even self assured know-it-alls couldn't explain them away.
I wasn't able to verify that. NOt that I'm calling you a liar, because I'm not. But with this topic specifically, I like to check things out for myself. All I know about explosives I learned thru my own efforts. I never worked with them myself. And there is no way in hell I'd ever make them. Even though the info on how to do it is out there. You just need to be a chemist and have access to nitric acid for many of them, which is hard to come by. SOme even post their explosions on jewtube, the dumbasses. All I am saying is that this thermite issue is not important, and AFAIK there is no evidence for it. It's a distraction. Cutting charges can do the job very well. They are used all the time. Oh well. We agree on the basics. IMO that is enough. I dont think we'll ever get the whole story. ,
Debunking 911: Noam Chomsky "...I am not persuaded by the assumption that much documentation and other evidence has been uncovered. To determine that, we'd have to investigate the alleged evidence. Take, say, the physical evidence. There are ways to assess that: submit it to specialists -- of whom there are thousands -- who have the requisite background in civil-mechanical engineering, materials science, building construction, etc., for review and analysis; and one cannot gain the required knowledge by surfing the internet. In fact, that's been done, by the professional association of civil engineers. Or, take the course pursued by anyone who thinks they have made a genuine discovery: submit it to a serious journal [AGA: Not pay to publish, unquoted by other publications like Open Access] for peer review and publication. To my knowledge, there isn't a single submission." "I think this reaches the heart of the matter. One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. How do you personally set priorities? That's of course up to you. I've explained my priorities often, in print as well as elsewhere, but we have to make our own judgments." "...I don't see any reason to accept the presuppositions. As for the consequences, in one of my first interviews after 9/11 I pointed out the obvious: every power system in the world was going to exploit it for its own interests: the Russians in Chechnya, China against the Uighurs, Israel in the occupied territories,... etc., and states would exploit the opportunity to control their own populations more fully through "prevention of terrorism acts" and the like. By the "who gains" argument, every power system in the world could be assigned responsibility for 9/11." "I think the Bush administration would have had to be utterly insane to try anything like what is alleged, for their own narrow interests, and do not think that serious evidence has been provided to support claims about actions that would not only be outlandish, for their own interests, but that have no remote historical parallel. The effects, however, are all too clear, namely, what I just mentioned: diverting activism and commitment away from the very serious ongoing crimes of state."
Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.
ROTFLAMO!!! Chomsky, a professor at MIT, has by himself more awards, publications, and references than all your 911 internet poobahs from any and every place in the world put together. Listen. I'm going to make an attempt to be civil replying to such unfounded remarks, but if you insist on making such flagrantly false statements without a shred of evidence to support them, because of your preconceived agenda found only on the anonymous internet sites, your statements will be seen as nothing more than parroting groupthink brain aberrations. Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from universities around the world, including from the following: University of London University of Chicago Loyola University of Chicago Swarthmore College University of Delhi Bard College University of Massachusetts University of Pennsylvania Georgetown University Amherst College University of Cambridge University of Buenos Aires McGill University Universitat Rovira i Virgili Columbia University Villanova University University of Connecticut University of Maine Scuola Normale Superiore University of Western Ontario University of Toronto Harvard University Universidad de Chile University of Bologna Universidad de la Frontera University of Calcutta Universidad Nacional de Colombia Vrije Universiteit Brussel Santo Domingo Institute of Technology Uppsala University University of Athens University of Cyprus Central Connecticut State University National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the 1999 Benjamin Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others.[99] He is twice winner of The Orwell Award, granted by The National Council of Teachers of English for "Distinguished Contributions to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language" (in 1987 and 1989).[100] He is a member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts in Department of Social Sciences.[101] Chomsky is a member of the Faculty Advisory Board of MIT Harvard Research Journal.[102] In 2005, Chomsky received an honorary fellowship from the Literary and Historical Society.[103] In 2007, Chomsky received The Uppsala University (Sweden) Honorary Doctor's degree in commemoration of Carolus Linnaeus.[104] In February 2008, he received the President's Medal from the Literary and Debating Society of the National University of Ireland, Galway.[105] In 2010, Chomsky received the Erich Fromm Prize in Stuttgart, Germany.[106] Chomsky has an ErdQs number of four. Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying "I don't pay a lot of attention to polls". [107] In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of "Heroes of our time".[108] Actor Viggo Mortensen with avant-garde guitarist Buckethead dedicated their 2006 album, called Pandemoniumfromamerica to Chomsky. On January 22, 2010, a special honorary concert for Chomsky was given at Kresge Auditorium at MIT.[109] [110] The concert, attended by Chomsky and dozens of his family and friends, featured music composed by Edward Manukyan and speeches by Chomsky's colleagues, including David Pesetsky of MIT and Gennaro Chierchia, head of the linguistics department at Harvard University. Criticism Main article: Criticism of Noam Chomsky Much Chomsky criticism revolves around his political views. His status as an intellectual figure within the left wing of American politics has resulted in much criticism from the left and the right. Bibliography Main article: Bibliography of Noam Chomsky Filmography There's so much debunking of these CT's on just one website, Debunking 911.com, I could spend entire days just cutting, pasting and whacking every CT argument that's ever been posted. From there directly. With quotes from successful people, arguments, sources, exposes of lies and half-truths published on CT sites that distort original messages, etc. However, as I've posted repeatedly through the years, and Chomsky notes too, the real damage done by the 911 Twoofers is to move opposition from being concerned with substantive issues to fringe circles, where the PTB prefer it to be so they can point at the collective lack of practicality and intelligence of those saying they want change. So I'm not going to get too consumed with rebutting every CT because people with common sense know they're not right to begin with and it's a waste of time and energy to put a lot of effort into time-traveling into that Alice-in- Wonderland rabbit hole. But don't try to push me too much on the issue or you'll get rebuttals you can't refute in spades.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is a lot of crap put out by "truthers" and our government "leaders". This is why I said I don't think we will ever get the complete truth about what happened that day. This is a perfect example of why I don't believe anyone, "VIP" or not, that makes allegations. An allegation without proof is probably a lie. That goes for "truthers" and the .gov. For example, there is this, from your post 18: Thermite was used by the cleanup crews to remove the large metal pieces of the structures that could not be removed as a whole pice. That sounds like BS to me. Why use thermite when cutting torches would do the job? Where is the proof that this was done??? He doesn't give it. .
There is a lot of crap put out by "truthers" and our government "leaders". This is why I said I don't think we will ever get the complete truth about what happened that day. Yes, I agree we will never get the truth, unless perhaps people in Washington and Tel Aviv get "waterboarded." Both Cheney and Netanyahu have stated that 911 was good, Cheney for America and Netanyahu publicly stating in news media that 911 was "good" for Israel, then quickly modifying his statement “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy” to cover his tracks. Cheney clique people were always privy to special intelligence from Israel, in order to give them means to continue subverting the US to do that country's bidding. They also overrode numerous warnings from counter intelligence professionals that "Israeli art students" who were discharged Israeli military starting training to be hand picked by the Mossad as future agents, were systematically casing out secure American military and government sites and reporting how they could be penetrated. They also were busy tracking radical Islamists who had their own agendas in the United States coming out of the Afghan training camps. Regarding the Afghan and Pakistan training camps, there's no question they existed and they did turn out the suicide bombers they have been alleged to. I happen to have some good connections with former Afghan mujahideen and ever since the late 1980's-1990's, the Afghans who were moderate and pro- Western repeatedly warned the US about the need to do something about these foreigners who the Afghans did not want in their own homeland. Unfortunately the State Department and CIA were totally unconcerned about Afghanistan's future, and allowed a country which had 1.5 million of its civilians killed to devolve into anarchy and civil war. Abdul Haq, one very prominent mujahideen commander, made a 1994 statement where he said if the United States didn't "clean up its $hit" in Afghanistan, there would be narcotics terrorism and then the US would eventually have to invade, and when that happened the US would be stuck just as the British and the Russians were. Haq's prediction has turned out to be 100% accurate and now instead of spending under $100 million and zero casualties, America is on its way to $1 trillion, 1,000 KIA, 100,000 or more wounded, and a an economy teetering on bankruptcy. The "Israeli moving company" story about 5-6 Israelis filming the WTC collapse and celebrating, was also reported until Fox News abruptly stopped runnning it. However there is still documenation of some of those Jews arested appearing on Israel TV talk shows. They excuse their behavior by the usual "Jews are victims" bull$hit which is about to get them knocked out of the park by the rest of the world's population which is getting quite tired of Jew self- asserted special privileges. So the road to NYC on 911 does go through Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, but it also has a route through Washington, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Debunking 911 has enough CT- busting, voluminously documented, sourced, discussed, and linked, to keep anyone busy for days just reading and following links. Debunking 911: Rethinking Thermite I don't want to take up several pages copying it to here. Those debunkers do a bang up job rebutting the CT pablum.
Creative writing at its best. If you disregard all of the anomalous evidence, discount the eyewitness accounts, invent new laws of physics, create false evidence (e.g., Popular Mechanics use of a reversed image of Building 6 claiming it was building 7), and hold your breath until you turn blue you can prove anything - including how 2 AIRPLANES collapsed 3 BUILDINGS that were designed to withstand the impact of a comparable sized aircraft. And then the next step is to attack personally anyone who says otherwise. Virtually everyone of the so-called "debunkers" (actually planted spin) have been resoundingly refuted over and over and over again. However, like a Goat in Heat they keep coming back, and are absoluetely invincible to facts which do not come from an Officially Approved Source™ and do not fit with the Official Conspiracy Theory®. But of course there are sound reasons why the most sophisticated Air Defense system on the planet failed to work in the face of the machiavellian attack of "19ARABSWHOHATEUSCUZWE'REFREE"© and the magic Mad Mullah with his Magick Cellphone hidden deep in his secret mountain fortress in the Tora Bora region of far Pipelinestan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one, often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. 'The CIA killed Hendrix', 'The Pope had John Lennon murdered', 'Hitler was half Werewolf', 'Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone' etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it. So its hardly surprising that the events of September 11th, 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis. One of the wilder stories circulating about September 11th - and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs - is that it was carried out by nineteen fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they 'hate our freedoms.' Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories. These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organising them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA - the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about nineteen Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions. It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as 'the fruit loop' and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)ogical conclusions. According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, nineteen Arabs took over four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets. The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID - but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities - they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. "Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?" "A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get." "Very strange", thinks the security officer, "that's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask...and why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..." Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time , the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity. Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?" "You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on... Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story. "Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen. This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The 'improbability drive', in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens - just about all the time in their world. There is a principle called 'Occam's razor' which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor. Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the nineteen invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes. Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that September 11th, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas - after they had attached their masks, obviously - but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive. So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of 'our freedoms', it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar - really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5 o'clock the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable. Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash. Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable, quite remarkable. Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically Kerosene, and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 degrees Celcius has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourising sixty-five tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around fifteen tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of Kerosene - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vapourise a plane. And then there's about fifty tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of Kerosene. For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as 'mumbo jumbo'. This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of Kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins. "Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact", they state with pompous certainty, "watch any Bruce Willis movie." "Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies?" At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip. "Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin. Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vapourised into nothing. "But not big planes, with that much fuel", they shriek in hysterical denial. Or that much metal to vapourise. "Yes but not hijacked planes!" "Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?" "Now you're just being silly". Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourise into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "It's a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact." Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves - if not too many other people - that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop. But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of Kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant veritcal collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning Kerosene. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose Kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourising a sixty-five ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees centigrade for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of Kerosene is enough to: - Completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft - Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel - melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel - Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building This Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those Kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourised. And never again will I take Kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourised into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning Kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the black smoke coming from the WTC indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore not particularly hot - they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 degrees centigrade, without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of September 11th. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course. Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why. "Muslim terrorists stole my notes,Sir." "No Miss, the Kerosene heater blew up and vapourised everything in the street, except for my passport." "You see Sir, the schoolbus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms." Or perhaps they misunderstood the term 'creative science' and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework. The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly Kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat - although 2000 degrees centigrade isn't really required, 100 degrees centigrade will generally do the job. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That's right, if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in New York, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft. You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing. So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time. This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space inbetween. Each ring of building is about 30-35 feet deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 foot diameter through three rings - six walls. A little later a section of wall about 65 foot wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 feet and a length of 155 feet, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible. But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is 'mumbo jumbo'. It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it 'must be wrong' although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour. Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourised by it's exploding fuel load, and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. That's a wonderful fruit loop. Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 foot deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building - even though the building shows no sign of such damage. As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat. When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly - ignoring the undamaged lawn - while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an 'irrecoverable angle.' How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity. Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks. As America gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime. At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on September 11th, and the subsequent war crimes committed in 'retaliation' are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged. Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia. Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about September 11th.
Spam: The #2 CT Weapon second only to #1, hyperbole, personal invectives and insults. Got a specific point to make? Without huffing and puffing and looking over your shoulder for some attaboys from people with even less research skills than you? As you can see from the graphic below, all the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit. The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them. Now tell me about CT Niels Harritt. In his interviews says he doesn't know how nanothermite was made, but he just knows it's nanothermite. He says nanothermite is both an explosive and a pyrotechnic. A complete bull$hit statement that anybody who has worked with either can state. Harritt says there could be anywhere from 10 tons to 100 tons - off by an order of magnitude. He says "they" brought it in on pallets. He says you have to ask the security how it got wired up. He leave unsaid how the precisely timed sequences of explosions - which all happen after the floors already start falling - get detonated. More questions than answers. And this is supposed to be your champion.
The Chinese sure know how to build, don't they? It burned a lot hotter and a lot longer than 7 did. It didn't fall. www.guardian.co.uk/world/...centre-tower-beijing-fire I'll watch your vids. If it is what I think it is, it just goes to show that there is bullshit on both sides. That is probably intentional. .
All the WTC buildings had designs intended to maximize rental space by using the exterior walls - including novel tube load bearing designs - for greater amounts of load bearing than conventional buildings which use more interior columns. Also WTC 7 exterior was severely bashed by falling beams from the Twin Towers that aren't shown in the CT videos, and had uncontrolled fires burning for hours fed by 43,000 gallons of diesel intended for the uninterrupted power supply which had its own pump continually feeding these fires. Finally the east part of the WTC (not shown in CT videos, shown on my links) collapsed 8 seconds before the West and by shifting the remaining load to the West during the collapse made the entire building collapse inevitable. Debunking 911: First Time in History (Steel Structure Collasping) There were a lot of firsts for the WTC. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been hit with a plane traveling 500 miles an hour and had its fire proofing removed from its trusses. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever had its steel columns which hold lateral load sheared off by a 767. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been a building which had its vertical load bearing columns in its core removed by an airliner. For Building 7, in all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been left for 6-7 hours with its bottom floors on fire with structural damage from another building collapse. Not the Madrid/Windsor tower did not have almost 40 stories of load on its supports after being hit by another building which left a 20 story gash. The Madrid tower lost portions of its steel frame from the fire. Windsor's central core was steel reinforced concrete. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been without some fire fighters fighting the fires. I could go on with the "Firsts" but you get the drift. The statement that the WTC buildings were the first high-rise buildings to collapse from fire is deceptive because it purposely doesn't take those factors into account.
Your image is missing the support columns, and gives the impression the WTC towers were "floating" the floors with no support at all. Here are some images of one of the towers as it was being built... Here's some info on the construction if you're interested.
Other than direction, no substantial difference between the two. The WTC towers had a unique design with little or no lattice work between the core columns and the exterior tubes which carried a substantial amount of the weight in a unique tube design.
BTW, why did you shrink the image I posted in your response? Was it to give the illusion that the bottom core of the building was in fact much smaller than it actually was? The original image I posted; The shrunken image YOU posted; The actual bottom of the tower during construction;
#94. To: FormerLurker (#88)
The 3-level lattice works to the far left, beneath the crane, and the far right, mostly obscured, are not parts of the building. They are exterior scaffolding. There is additional exterior scaffolding, and crane framework, around the center core under construction. When finished, the center core was smaller than the photo shows because the scaffolding and the crane framework was removed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#3. To: PSUSA (#1)
#5. To: Artisan (#3)
#11. To: PSUSA (#5)
thermite/thermate (neither are explosives)
#12. To: HOUNDDAWG (#11)
(Edited)
#13. To: PSUSA (#12)
#14. To: HOUNDDAWG (#13)
but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them.
#24. To: PSUSA (#14)
(Edited)
#26. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, Artisan, *9-11* (#24)
#27. To: wudidiz (#26)
(Edited)
Noam Chomsky is not all that bright.
In the spring of 1969, he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford University; in January 1970, the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at University of Cambridge; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi; in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden; in 1988 the Massey Lectures at the University of Toronto, titled "Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies"; in 1997, The Davie Memorial Lecture on Academic Freedom in Cape Town,[97] and many others.[98]
Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.
Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, Director: Mark Achbar and Peter Wintonick (1992)
Last Party 2000, Director: Rebecca Chaiklin and Donovan Leitch (2001)
Power and Terror: Noam Chomsky in Our Times, Director: John Junkerman (2002)
Distorted Morality—America's War On Terror?, Director: John Junkerman (2003)
Noam Chomsky: Rebel Without a Pause (TV), Director: Will Pascoe (2003)
The Corporation, Directors: Mark Achbar and Jennifer Abbott; Writer: Joel Bakan (2003)
Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land, Directors: Sut Jhally and Bathsheba Ratzkoff (2004)
On Power, Dissent and Racism: A discussion with Noam Chomsky, Journalist: Nicolas Rossier; Producers: Eli Choukri, Baraka Productions (2004)
Lake of Fire, Director: Tony Kaye (2006)
American Feud: A History of Conservatives and Liberals, Director: Richard Hall (2008)
In the Time We've Got, Director: Christopher Ives (2008)
Chomsky & Cie Director: Olivier Azam (out in 2008)
An Inconvenient Tax, Director: Christopher P. Marshall (out in 2009)
The Money Fix, Director: Alan Rosenblith (2009)
Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space, Director: Denis Delestrac (2010)
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
#28. To: AGAviator (#27)
So I'm not going to get too consumed with rebutting every CT because people with common sense know they're not right to begin with and it's a waste of time and energy to put a lot of effort into time-traveling into that Alice-in- Wonderland rabbit hole.
#30. To: PSUSA (#28)
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Thermite was used by the cleanup crews to remove the large metal pieces of the structures that could not be removed as a whole pice.
That sounds like BS to me. Why use thermite when cutting torches would do the job? Where is the proof that this was done??? He doesn't give it.
One of the pieces of evidence conspiracy theorists use to say the buildings were brought down is a photo with something they interpret as being left behind by a thermite reaction.
More info on the above link.
#45. To: AGAviator, farmfriend, Eric Stratton, wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#30)
I don't want to take up several pages copying it to here. Those debunkers do a bang up job rebutting the CT pablum.
By Gerard Holmgren
1-31-6
#49. To: Original_Intent (#45)
Conspiracy theorists say World Trade Center 7 is the best proof for controlled demolition because it wasn't hit by airliners and only had a few fires. They also claim that there was a confession from the building owner who said he "pulled" it. But this is deceptive because while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7. Below is evidence showing that conspiracy theorists are wrong.
#56. To: AGAviator (#49)
Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them.
#57. To: PSUSA (#56)
(Edited)
The Chinese sure know how to build, don't they? It burned a lot hotter and a lot longer than 7 did. It didn't fall.
Conspiracy Theorists bring up the fact that the towers were the first steel high rises to fall from fire in history. The fact is the towers had other firsts that day they never seem to include.
Regular Building Column Design 
WTC Column Design
#75. To: AGAviator (#57)
#82. To: FormerLurker (#75)
My diagram Your photo
#88. To: AGAviator (#82)
Replies to Comment # 88. The actual bottom of the tower during construction;
End Trace Mode for Comment # 88.