See other 4play Articles
Title: Barack Obama: Shape Shifting Reptilian Overlord or Pure Human?
Source:
[None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 4, 2010
Author: russell huebsch
Post Date: 2010-07-04 14:41:52 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 16260
Comments: 362
Is Barack Obama really a shape shifting reptilian humanoid from a far away galaxy bent on the enslavement of the human race? According to David Icke, who claims on his web site that most world leaders come from a line of reptilians originating in the Alpha Draconis, Barack Obama is most likely a blood drinking shape shifter bent on progressing the New World Order. Icke's reptilian theory makes the claim that reptilians plan to control humanity and other civilizations through fear and negative emotion, a food source for the reptilian. Icke believes the reptilians plan for world domination started to unravel with the September 11 attacks on New York and Obama's presidency will lead us into this "New World Order", but is this just mere babbling from a sick mind or does this theory have some legitimacy? Here are signs that the Obama reptilian conspiracy is true. "Change we need": Has Obama told us all along that he is a changeling/shape shifting reptilian? Think about it, change always happens when a new president enters office, perhaps Obama's corporeal body is crying out to the world that a shape shifting reptilian alien has hijacked his avatar. "Change" might also be a code word for reptilian dictators across the globe that America has elected another shape shifter as president. Even Adolph Hitler claimed to bring change for the German people, but as we know all the only thing the world received from Hitler was millions of lost lives and the genocide of an entire race of people. Whatever this "change" really means it certainly does not bode well for the future of America and even worse for the human race. The questionable birth certificate: Why would any presidential candidate try so desperately to hide a real birth certificate? Perhaps because reptilian overlords do not receive birth certificates, they congeal out of a pile of goo! The voting public would never vote for a space reptilian and if the plan for world domination ever leaked to the general there would be mass chaos, thus the Republican party could never reveal Obama's true ancestry and the reptilian conspiracy continues.
Poster Comment: I always thought Obama was just half kaffir and half white trash race traitor. But perhaps he's a David Icke blood-drinking shape-shifting space reptile... I, for one, welcome our new reptilian overloads. I'll point out to them all my enemies, so they can eat them.
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#1. To: Turtle (#0)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke Why does anyone believe anything he says? I mean, come on! .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or . He used to be a soccer player and I think the ball hit him in the head too many times.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
there are some funny as heck vids about the reptilians. turtle, meanwhile buys papa governments version of 9/11 hook line & sinker. so,...
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 are balls to the face the only thing you and Icke have in common?
I dont hold that against him. You have to admit, there are some wacky "theories" out there. They make us look stupid when they start talking about "blue beam" holograms, thermite/thermate (neither are explosives), UFOs, etc. Some are intentional disinfo and others are just plain nuts IMO. In alex jones' case, he's both nuts and a disinfo scumbag. THe best way is to attack them at the weakest link, and IMO that is bldg. 7. The next weakest link is the pentagon. There are aalso plenty of professionals that agree with us on the towers demolition. Here is a favorite and I never miss a chance in posting it. killtown.911review.org/pentalawn.html .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or I also remember reading where we went naked as the day he was born, running thru London. I cant find the story though. I don't know what he is doing. Personally I think there are some that will do all they can to be considered as internet VIPs. If that means making up some wild shit, they'll do it, knowing that there will be a market for it, and people will fawn all over them. It's a personality cult. He reminds me of the televangelist scammers, in that they know many are onto their scams, but there are enough idiots out there that will make them rich anyway. They don't care about being exposed. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or . That is a good one. Back in the day when BeAChooser used to post on LP and someone (me or anyone else) would post that, he would go completely around the bend hollering KOOK. It was funny.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Sarcasm and satire are great weapons. I miss the good ol' days when they would drag out the "tin foil hatter" argument. It made for some lively discussions. I dont see that argument used anymore. I guess they know deep down that we are more right than wrong. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or This makes sense to me, but only because I have been watching non stop episodes of Stargate SG1.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"_H. Simpson
You saw the structural steel beams in the WTC that were clearly cut (on an angle to facilitate collapse) as if by a gas cutting torch? That''s what the thermite/thermate was likely used for. They make special porcelain molds to hold the thermite in place as it blows through steel box beams like a hot knife through butter. (pix of box beams cut off clean at Ground Zero) Remember the You Tube video of a can of thermite burning all the way through a car engine block and landing on the ground underneath? Surely you can understand the utility of exothermic cutting charges in a planned demo that was supposed to be the result of something other than a planned collapse. In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area.
I disagree. Cutting charges are shaped high explosive charges. They cut right thru steel with no problem. Why use thermite when cutting charges have been used for years? Explosions were heard in the towers and reported on the news. AFA the pics at the link go, were those cut just before the towers fell or during the cleanup? In the background is a tall beam that has been cut but did not fall. If that was done by breakers after the disaster it would have been pulled down by a crane to avoid injury or death to workers in the area. There was a lot of rubble that was a danger to workers. Getting rid of it was a process. WHere in the process was that pic taken? Here is where relying on pics can be problematic, because there is no context. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or It takes a great deal more of an explosive charge to blow a steel beam that it takes thermite/thermate to burn it. Also, explosives used against hard targets have to be tamped, ("Hey, Chief, how come all of the main support columns have sand bags packed against them and wires running out?",) but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them. Also, thermite can be used to precisely cut a steel beam at an angle so it will slide off the "stump" when cut. Had all of the the beams been blown there would have been no way to make the official fairie tale stick. (Some explosives were used but the witnesses conveniently died) Numerous seismographs would reveal the lies and even self assured know-it-alls couldn't explain them away.
I wasn't able to verify that. NOt that I'm calling you a liar, because I'm not. But with this topic specifically, I like to check things out for myself. All I know about explosives I learned thru my own efforts. I never worked with them myself. And there is no way in hell I'd ever make them. Even though the info on how to do it is out there. You just need to be a chemist and have access to nitric acid for many of them, which is hard to come by. SOme even post their explosions on jewtube, the dumbasses. All I am saying is that this thermite issue is not important, and AFAIK there is no evidence for it. It's a distraction. Cutting charges can do the job very well. They are used all the time. Oh well. We agree on the basics. IMO that is enough. I dont think we'll ever get the whole story. ,
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives Excerpt (There are multiple references at the link): Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe Excerpt: 2. The primary elements (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) are typically all present in particles at the scale of tens to hundreds of nanometers, and detailed XEDS mapping shows intimate mixing. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You're talking science and others are discussing religious beliefs. It's like the OJ jury, i.e. "All dat DMA stuff is a buncha white man's voodoo and dey jus' tryin' to hang a beautiful, innocent black man! And, Hell, all he maybe do waz kill a couple of honkies and he prolly won't do it no mo!"
Point granted. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
There's a fundamental contradiction between alleging that explosives were used at the same time thermite was used on the Twin Towers. Explosives would scatter the thermite if they detonated first, rendering the thermite useless for cutting, and burning thermite would destroy the cutting charges if it ignited first. Then there are the hundreds of debunkers with real actual experience in science, technology, and construcion, whose hundreds of statements have to be completely dismissed so the words of a handful of fringe players will not have any rebuttals. 911 "Truther" Conspiracies Debunked - Part IV There is a road to 911 through Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, but it goes through Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Southern Afghanistan, then to "Isaeli Art Students" who were closely monitoring Mohammet Atta in the US, and the "Israeli Moving Company" in New Jersey which had 5 employees filming and celebrating the collapses of the buildings when they happened. The latter were put into jail for 70 days afterwards, then quitely released to Israel without any charges ever being filed. If waterboarding is supposed to be the way to extract information about terror attacks, then every single Israeli on a passport violation in the US in 2001 with any conceivable connections to Israeli military and intelligence, should have been sent to GITMO and waterboarded mercilessly. With Arab, Pakistani and Afghan suspects sharing the same cell block with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Explosive cutting charges and thermite are mutually exclusive. Burning thermite will prevent the cutting charges from going off, and explosing cutting charges will spray and scatter the thermite before it can ignite. Also various substances alleged to be evicence of naon-thermite - which is never clearly defined - are actually ashes and debris from sources as diverse as incinerated office copy machine toner, paint, carpeting, and furniture.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley And your proof of that is? The links I provided to above are analyses done by Chemists and Physicists who know their profession and know what they are looking at. The physical evidence supports the use of nanothermites.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
LOL I almost brought up 9/11 in that list we were making on the other thread.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." No it doesn't. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley The physical evidence supports the use of nanothermites (1) Until the debris and ashes from millions of tons of office products, mixed together violently and mechanically, burnt for weeks, sprayed with water, can be rigorously accounted for, you don't know what you had in the debris pile and where exactly everything came from. (2) All CT theories totally ignore the tremendous amount of energy - billions of joules - contributed to the collapses by (A) 500,000 tons of gravitational force, (B) 2 aircraft weighing nearly 400,000 pounds fully loaded with fuel traveling over 500 mph at impact, and (C) 23,000 gallons of jet fuel burning. Why are the massive incontrovertibly known energies contributed by these aircraft collision variables totally ignored, while hypothetically speculated substances that can't even be rigorously defined, are put forth as real causes? What other forces were there, what was their magnitude, in what directions were they acting, and what is your direct evidence of their existence?
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Debunking 911: Noam Chomsky "...I am not persuaded by the assumption that much documentation and other evidence has been uncovered. To determine that, we'd have to investigate the alleged evidence. Take, say, the physical evidence. There are ways to assess that: submit it to specialists -- of whom there are thousands -- who have the requisite background in civil-mechanical engineering, materials science, building construction, etc., for review and analysis; and one cannot gain the required knowledge by surfing the internet. In fact, that's been done, by the professional association of civil engineers. Or, take the course pursued by anyone who thinks they have made a genuine discovery: submit it to a serious journal [AGA: Not pay to publish, unquoted by other publications like Open Access] for peer review and publication. To my knowledge, there isn't a single submission." "I think this reaches the heart of the matter. One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. How do you personally set priorities? That's of course up to you. I've explained my priorities often, in print as well as elsewhere, but we have to make our own judgments." "...I don't see any reason to accept the presuppositions. As for the consequences, in one of my first interviews after 9/11 I pointed out the obvious: every power system in the world was going to exploit it for its own interests: the Russians in Chechnya, China against the Uighurs, Israel in the occupied territories,... etc., and states would exploit the opportunity to control their own populations more fully through "prevention of terrorism acts" and the like. By the "who gains" argument, every power system in the world could be assigned responsibility for 9/11." "I think the Bush administration would have had to be utterly insane to try anything like what is alleged, for their own narrow interests, and do not think that serious evidence has been provided to support claims about actions that would not only be outlandish, for their own interests, but that have no remote historical parallel. The effects, however, are all too clear, namely, what I just mentioned: diverting activism and commitment away from the very serious ongoing crimes of state." ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Noam Chomsky is not all that bright.
Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.
ROTFLAMO!!! Chomsky, a professor at MIT, has by himself more awards, publications, and references than all your 911 internet poobahs from any and every place in the world put together. Listen. I'm going to make an attempt to be civil replying to such unfounded remarks, but if you insist on making such flagrantly false statements without a shred of evidence to support them, because of your preconceived agenda found only on the anonymous internet sites, your statements will be seen as nothing more than parroting groupthink brain aberrations. Chomsky has received many honorary degrees from universities around the world, including from the following: University of London University of Chicago Loyola University of Chicago Swarthmore College University of Delhi Bard College University of Massachusetts University of Pennsylvania Georgetown University Amherst College University of Cambridge University of Buenos Aires McGill University Universitat Rovira i Virgili Columbia University Villanova University University of Connecticut University of Maine Scuola Normale Superiore University of Western Ontario University of Toronto Harvard University Universidad de Chile University of Bologna Universidad de la Frontera University of Calcutta Universidad Nacional de Colombia Vrije Universiteit Brussel Santo Domingo Institute of Technology Uppsala University University of Athens University of Cyprus Central Connecticut State University National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM) He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the National Academy of Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the 1999 Benjamin Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others.[99] He is twice winner of The Orwell Award, granted by The National Council of Teachers of English for "Distinguished Contributions to Honesty and Clarity in Public Language" (in 1987 and 1989).[100] He is a member of the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts in Department of Social Sciences.[101] Chomsky is a member of the Faculty Advisory Board of MIT Harvard Research Journal.[102] In 2005, Chomsky received an honorary fellowship from the Literary and Historical Society.[103] In 2007, Chomsky received The Uppsala University (Sweden) Honorary Doctor's degree in commemoration of Carolus Linnaeus.[104] In February 2008, he received the President's Medal from the Literary and Debating Society of the National University of Ireland, Galway.[105] In 2010, Chomsky received the Erich Fromm Prize in Stuttgart, Germany.[106] Chomsky has an ErdQs number of four. Chomsky was voted the leading living public intellectual in The 2005 Global Intellectuals Poll conducted by the British magazine Prospect. He reacted, saying "I don't pay a lot of attention to polls". [107] In a list compiled by the magazine New Statesman in 2006, he was voted seventh in the list of "Heroes of our time".[108] Actor Viggo Mortensen with avant-garde guitarist Buckethead dedicated their 2006 album, called Pandemoniumfromamerica to Chomsky. On January 22, 2010, a special honorary concert for Chomsky was given at Kresge Auditorium at MIT.[109] [110] The concert, attended by Chomsky and dozens of his family and friends, featured music composed by Edward Manukyan and speeches by Chomsky's colleagues, including David Pesetsky of MIT and Gennaro Chierchia, head of the linguistics department at Harvard University. Criticism Main article: Criticism of Noam Chomsky Much Chomsky criticism revolves around his political views. His status as an intellectual figure within the left wing of American politics has resulted in much criticism from the left and the right. Bibliography Main article: Bibliography of Noam Chomsky Filmography There's so much debunking of these CT's on just one website, Debunking 911.com, I could spend entire days just cutting, pasting and whacking every CT argument that's ever been posted. From there directly. With quotes from successful people, arguments, sources, exposes of lies and half-truths published on CT sites that distort original messages, etc. However, as I've posted repeatedly through the years, and Chomsky notes too, the real damage done by the 911 Twoofers is to move opposition from being concerned with substantive issues to fringe circles, where the PTB prefer it to be so they can point at the collective lack of practicality and intelligence of those saying they want change. So I'm not going to get too consumed with rebutting every CT because people with common sense know they're not right to begin with and it's a waste of time and energy to put a lot of effort into time-traveling into that Alice-in- Wonderland rabbit hole. But don't try to push me too much on the issue or you'll get rebuttals you can't refute in spades. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. There is a lot of crap put out by "truthers" and our government "leaders". This is why I said I don't think we will ever get the complete truth about what happened that day. This is a perfect example of why I don't believe anyone, "VIP" or not, that makes allegations. An allegation without proof is probably a lie. That goes for "truthers" and the .gov. For example, there is this, from your post 18: Thermite was used by the cleanup crews to remove the large metal pieces of the structures that could not be removed as a whole pice. That sounds like BS to me. Why use thermite when cutting torches would do the job? Where is the proof that this was done??? He doesn't give it. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
There is a lot of crap put out by "truthers" and our government "leaders". This is why I said I don't think we will ever get the complete truth about what happened that day. Yes, I agree we will never get the truth, unless perhaps people in Washington and Tel Aviv get "waterboarded." Both Cheney and Netanyahu have stated that 911 was good, Cheney for America and Netanyahu publicly stating in news media that 911 was "good" for Israel, then quickly modifying his statement “Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy” to cover his tracks. Cheney clique people were always privy to special intelligence from Israel, in order to give them means to continue subverting the US to do that country's bidding. They also overrode numerous warnings from counter intelligence professionals that "Israeli art students" who were discharged Israeli military starting training to be hand picked by the Mossad as future agents, were systematically casing out secure American military and government sites and reporting how they could be penetrated. They also were busy tracking radical Islamists who had their own agendas in the United States coming out of the Afghan training camps. Regarding the Afghan and Pakistan training camps, there's no question they existed and they did turn out the suicide bombers they have been alleged to. I happen to have some good connections with former Afghan mujahideen and ever since the late 1980's-1990's, the Afghans who were moderate and pro- Western repeatedly warned the US about the need to do something about these foreigners who the Afghans did not want in their own homeland. Unfortunately the State Department and CIA were totally unconcerned about Afghanistan's future, and allowed a country which had 1.5 million of its civilians killed to devolve into anarchy and civil war. Abdul Haq, one very prominent mujahideen commander, made a 1994 statement where he said if the United States didn't "clean up its $hit" in Afghanistan, there would be narcotics terrorism and then the US would eventually have to invade, and when that happened the US would be stuck just as the British and the Russians were. Haq's prediction has turned out to be 100% accurate and now instead of spending under $100 million and zero casualties, America is on its way to $1 trillion, 1,000 KIA, 100,000 or more wounded, and a an economy teetering on bankruptcy. The "Israeli moving company" story about 5-6 Israelis filming the WTC collapse and celebrating, was also reported until Fox News abruptly stopped runnning it. However there is still documenation of some of those Jews arested appearing on Israel TV talk shows. They excuse their behavior by the usual "Jews are victims" bull$hit which is about to get them knocked out of the park by the rest of the world's population which is getting quite tired of Jew self- asserted special privileges. So the road to NYC on 911 does go through Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, but it also has a route through Washington, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Debunking 911 has enough CT- busting, voluminously documented, sourced, discussed, and linked, to keep anyone busy for days just reading and following links. Debunking 911: Rethinking Thermite I don't want to take up several pages copying it to here. Those debunkers do a bang up job rebutting the CT pablum.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley OK ko00khack, how're your "blow job credentials" for "Professor" Steven Jones, who isn't even acknowledged by his former BYU Physics Department and which relieved him of teaching and put him out to pasture, and can't even show any net yield of useful free energy in any of his claimed "cold fusion" experiments. Or your "blow job credentials" for jerkwad Niels Harritt, who submitted samples of paint dust 6 years after the Twin Towers collapsed, and waving a bag of the stuff around, claiming it was extremely explosive and flammable. What the eff was the idiot doing bringing a supposedly explosive and pyrotechnically active substance to one press conference, ignoring all safety precautions that would have been needed, then failing to produce any kind of demonstration showing the goddamn stuff could even be ignited, much less made to explode. Hmmmm??? So keep your one-liner dismissals of people who have intelligence like Chomsky, to your k00ksites. Because everybody else sees them as cheap shot mental masturbation by a zombie group of losers.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Hey! Colon (Yeah, I know) Powell brought a vial of anthrax into the CONgress... That, and a bunch of cartoonish drawings of "mobile CW labs". .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Great shot of the angular cut beam. Straight sheer planes like that happen every day when heavy structural steel fails in catastrophic collapses. Way to go! /Sacasm
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You got to love the melted dripping steel from the heat of the cut.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Well, there certainly is a lot of competition to get into those institutions, and there is certainly more than a proportional share of publications, patents, and prominent public figures coming out of them. And FYI the person we were discussing, Noam Chomsky, is a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which is neither "Harvard" or "Ivy League." It is one of America's premier institutes for science, second only to Cal Tech which has produced so many usesful and workable patents and inventions used in programs like the flight to the moon. That actually effing do what they announce they will do before the rockets take off. And Chomsky is well respected intellectually by his colleagues at MIT, even though he does receive some criticism for his political perspective. Unlike a BYU CT fruitcake who can't even make a physical device that yields more energy than it consumes after claiming he's discovered cold fusion, or even have his department allow him continue teaching. Your denigration of successful people is really the root of all CT postulating. You have nothing, you've proved nothing even after 10 years, certain people have exhaustively debunked you after wading through your distortions and half truths word by word, so you simply dismiss anyone who would challenge you as being part of the problem. That's what being a "loser" is in plain English.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You got to love the melted dripping steel from the heat of the cut. You mean that slag from molten steel doesn't always form in Class Alpha (paper and wood) Office Fires?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
LOL sorry it was probably a computer that melted on the beam.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Never heard of a cutting torch I take it? Mind telling me what that metal thingy extending a couple feet from the left corner of the basket is? And what'sgenerating that [shudder] yellowish smoke spiraling up from the basket? This oughta be interesting.... [quote] Thermite in general makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts. It's a powder that undergoes a violent chemical reaction...[/quote] You haven't even read the effing link. That's not a thermite made cut One is the timeline. They say the photo has firemen which means this was during the rescue operation which only lasted two weeks. Why would they have fireman after the rescue operations? This suggests to them that the cut on the columns were made very close to September 11. The suggestion here is that it was done during the collapse....They claim that the angle of the cut can't be created by a welding tool and/or is designed to have the building fall in a certain direction. The other is a yellow substance they claim is residue from a thermite reaction. Let's examine these claims one by one to see where the evidence takes us... But is it possible the column was cut at an angle so just the column fell in a certain direction during cleanup? This can't be, surely the scholars would have asked an ironworker or someone else on the scene. I bet there isn't one photograph someone can find on the internet of a column which is cut at an angle. Remember, we're talking about "Scholars" here. Maybe I'm being a little unfair. Maybe I just happened to get this from some obscure site. Maybe I work for the government and have a stash of photos the scholars aren't privy to... No, actually I got this from the same place the scholars got their photo. Thermite in general makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts. It's a powder that undergoes a violent chemical reaction as seen in the video below. And now a few words about your ***peer-reviewed science sources.*** New Scientist: CRAP Paper Accepted by Journal Earlier this year, Davis started receiving unsolicited emails from Bentham Science Publishers, which publishes more than 200 "open- access" journals – which turn the conventional business model of academic publishing on its head by charging publication fees to the authors of research papers, and then making the content available for free. As the emails stacked up, Davis was not only encouraged to submit papers, but was also invited to serve on the editorial board of some of Bentham's journals – for which he was told he would be allowed to publish one free article each year. "I received solicitations for journals for which I had no subject expertise at all," says Davis. "It really painted a picture of vanity publishing." Sheer nonsense So Davis teamed up with Kent Anderson, a member of the publishing team at The New England Journal of Medicine, to put Bentham's editorial standards to the test. The pair turned to SCIgen, a program that generates nonsensical computer science papers, and submitted the resulting paper to The Open Information Science Journal, published by Bentham. The paper, entitled "Deconstructing Access Points" (pdf) made no sense whatsoever, as this sample reveals: In this section, we discuss existing research into red-black trees, vacuum tubes, and courseware [10]. On a similar note, recent work by Takahashi suggests a methodology for providing robust modalities, but does not offer an implementation [9]. Acronym clue Davis and Anderson, writing under the noms de plume David Phillips and Andrew Kent, also dropped a hefty hint of the hoax by giving their institutional affiliation as the Center for Research in Applied Phrenology, or CRAP. Yet four months after the article was submitted, "David Phillips" received an email from Sana Mokarram, Bentham's assistant manager of publication: This is to inform you that your submitted article has been accepted for publication after peer-reviewing process in TOISCIJ. I would be highly grateful to you if you please fill and sign the attached fee form and covering letter and send them back via email as soon as possible to avoid further delay in publication. The publication fee was $800, to be sent to a PO Box in the United Arab Emirates. Having made his point, Davis withdrew the paper. Mahmood Alam, Bentham's director of publications, responded to queries from New Scientist by email: "In this particular case we were aware that the article submitted was a hoax, and we tried to find out the identity of the individual by pretending the article had been accepted for publication when in fact it was not." "Why hasn't he attempted to contact me directly in order to determine my true identity?" Davis responds. pwned
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I'm somebody with a fucking brain who can do his own research instead of mentally masturbating on k00ksites and then throwing out insults because I can't refute any statements - like you do.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
If you can't understand that, well, there really isn't much sense discussing anything with you. As I've already stated, Chomsky has more academic and intellectual accomplishments than all the CT crowd and all his internet denigrators combined - literally. So to dismiss him as some kind of intellectual lightweight because he doesn't parrot the groupthink, and instead criticizes it for taking discussions in an unfruitful direction, is false and a cheap shot from masters of cheap shots. And no, I don't post here to discuss blow jobs or any permutations thereof.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Creative writing at its best. If you disregard all of the anomalous evidence, discount the eyewitness accounts, invent new laws of physics, create false evidence (e.g., Popular Mechanics use of a reversed image of Building 6 claiming it was building 7), and hold your breath until you turn blue you can prove anything - including how 2 AIRPLANES collapsed 3 BUILDINGS that were designed to withstand the impact of a comparable sized aircraft. And then the next step is to attack personally anyone who says otherwise. Virtually everyone of the so-called "debunkers" (actually planted spin) have been resoundingly refuted over and over and over again. However, like a Goat in Heat they keep coming back, and are absoluetely invincible to facts which do not come from an Officially Approved Source™ and do not fit with the Official Conspiracy Theory®. But of course there are sound reasons why the most sophisticated Air Defense system on the planet failed to work in the face of the machiavellian attack of "19ARABSWHOHATEUSCUZWE'REFREE"© and the magic Mad Mullah with his Magick Cellphone hidden deep in his secret mountain fortress in the Tora Bora region of far Pipelinestan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one, often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. 'The CIA killed Hendrix', 'The Pope had John Lennon murdered', 'Hitler was half Werewolf', 'Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone' etc, etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it. So its hardly surprising that the events of September 11th, 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis. One of the wilder stories circulating about September 11th - and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs - is that it was carried out by nineteen fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they 'hate our freedoms.' Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell. Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories. These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organising them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA - the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about nineteen Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer four planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly two hours, crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do. The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more preposturous stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus the tale has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions. It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed. Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as 'the fruit loop' and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)ogical conclusions. According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, nineteen Arabs took over four planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives, box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets. The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist. For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes. If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists. But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist. With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID - but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities - they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious. However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. "Excuse me sir, why do you have a boxcutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?" "A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get." "Very strange", thinks the security officer, "that's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or boxcutter and gas mask...and why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..." Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time , the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will allege that the hijackers' passports were found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity. Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated,and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently, "who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again. "Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?" "You numbskull! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on... Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unraveling of this marvelously stupid story. "Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "The answer of course is that its just one of those strange coincidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen. This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The 'improbability drive', in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to support it, and then continually speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens - just about all the time in their world. There is a principle called 'Occam's razor' which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct. Conspiracy theorists hate Occam's razor. Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the nineteen invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes. Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that September 11th, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the rather crude method of threatening people with boxcutters and knives, and spraying gas - after they had attached their masks, obviously - but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive. So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of 'our freedoms', it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar - really impeccable Islamic behavior - and then got up at 5 o'clock the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skillfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the mental fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi-believable. Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that the plane was packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash. Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vapourizing the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable, quite remarkable. Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically Kerosene, and which burns at a maximum temperature of around 800 degrees Celcius has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vapourising sixty-five tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around fifteen tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about double that of the maximum combustion temperature of Kerosene - let alone the boiling point - which is what would be required to vapourise a plane. And then there's about fifty tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of Kerosene. For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as 'mumbo jumbo'. This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of Kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute. Blissfully ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vapourised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins. "Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact", they state with pompous certainty, "watch any Bruce Willis movie." "Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies?" At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner that they have backed themselves into, and plan their escape by means of another stunning backflip. "Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin. Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vapourised into nothing. "But not big planes, with that much fuel", they shriek in hysterical denial. Or that much metal to vapourise. "Yes but not hijacked planes!" "Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?" "Now you're just being silly". Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vapourise into nothing. What's so special about a tower that's mostly glass? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "It's a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact." Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves - if not too many other people - that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vapourisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop. But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even more creative uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of Kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant veritcal collapse of both the WTC towers, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning Kerosene. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose Kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourising a sixty-five ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees centigrade for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of Kerosene is enough to: - Completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft - Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel - melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel - Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building This Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those Kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourised. And never again will I take Kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourised into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning Kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the black smoke coming from the WTC indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore not particularly hot - they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 degrees centigrade, without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of September 11th. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course. Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why. "Muslim terrorists stole my notes,Sir." "No Miss, the Kerosene heater blew up and vapourised everything in the street, except for my passport." "You see Sir, the schoolbus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms." Or perhaps they misunderstood the term 'creative science' and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework. The ferocious heat generated by this ghastly Kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by heat - although 2000 degrees centigrade isn't really required, 100 degrees centigrade will generally do the job. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That's right, if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in New York, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft. You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vapourised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing. So there we have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time. This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space inbetween. Each ring of building is about 30-35 feet deep, with a similar amount of open space between it and the next ring. The object which penetrated the Pentagon went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat circular hole of about a 12 foot diameter through three rings - six walls. A little later a section of wall about 65 foot wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 feet and a length of 155 feet, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible. But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of jet fuel, the normal properties of common building materials, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity and the second law of thermodynamics, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well? I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy theorist, this is 'mumbo jumbo'. It conflicts with the delusion that they're hooked on, so it 'must be wrong' although trying to get them to explain exactly how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour. Conspiracy theorists fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They nervously maintain that the plane was vapourised by it's exploding fuel load, and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behavior. That's a wonderful fruit loop. Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that the plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly backflip to explain the 250 foot deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building - even though the building shows no sign of such damage. As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat. When it suits them, they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly - ignoring the undamaged lawn - while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from an 'irrecoverable angle.' How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity. Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks. As America gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and stop his perpetual oil war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime. At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery that was perpetrated on September 11th, and the subsequent war crimes committed in 'retaliation' are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged. Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia. Its time to stop loony conspiracy theories about September 11th.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You think the people who constructed the WTC, who sent men to the moon, who developed the ICBM program, who put together the Interstate Freeway system that spans the country, are self-taught internet rubes patting each other on the back in chatrooms? There are millions of patents in this country. For things that actually work as claimed. And most of the patent holders come from American educational institutions where they have been recognized for their intelligence and accomplishments.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley "Why hasn't he attempted to contact me directly in order to determine my true identity?" Davis responds. pwned Yep! That is some serious pwnage. This is what happens when one introduces a nonsensical topic (thermite) that has nothing to do with what happened on 9/11. It is a distraction that takes away from honest debate and fact finding. People have gaps in their knowledge. Let's call them round holes. They try to fit in a square peg. It doesn't fit. So, instead of looking for a round peg to fit that empty round hole, they take that square peg and beat it into that hole with a hammer. Meanwhile, Turtle is probably giggling like a little schoolgirl. The little shit-starter. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or You got it, buster.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
Spam: The #2 CT Weapon second only to #1, hyperbole, personal invectives and insults. Got a specific point to make? Without huffing and puffing and looking over your shoulder for some attaboys from people with even less research skills than you? As you can see from the graphic below, all the buildings just as far away from both towers as WTC7 were hit. The others were either very short buildings which didn't have to support a massive load above or had no fire. Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them. Now tell me about CT Niels Harritt. In his interviews says he doesn't know how nanothermite was made, but he just knows it's nanothermite. He says nanothermite is both an explosive and a pyrotechnic. A complete bull$hit statement that anybody who has worked with either can state. Harritt says there could be anywhere from 10 tons to 100 tons - off by an order of magnitude. He says "they" brought it in on pallets. He says you have to ask the security how it got wired up. He leave unsaid how the precisely timed sequences of explosions - which all happen after the floors already start falling - get detonated. More questions than answers. And this is supposed to be your champion.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Nanonthermites, a fairly recent and very advanced iteration of an old product, is a different fettle of kish. It has both heat generating and explosive properties based upon how it is applied and/or ignited. Attempting to refute the physical evidence by using a Strawman i.e., the reaction of standard relatively low energy thermite is a comparison of a unlike items - sort of like trying to claim a Pony is a Clydesdale. One can look at the sharp angular cut of the beam, along with the telltale slag from having reached a molten state and know that the beam was sliced intentionally in some fashion. A paper fire does not do that, nor burning office furnishings, Jet fuel, or any of the other proposed mechanisms. The best the debunkers can come up with is the assertion that someone might have cut it after the fact while providing no sound rationale for cutting it at a steep angle. An after the fact debris removal crew, if they found it necessary to cut, would not intentionally make the longest possible cut to clear debris. I could literally waste hours going through point by tedious point, or I could sum it all up by simply inviting people to look at the mountains of available evidence, the contradictions in the Official Conspiracy Theory™, and compare them to the observed events and phenomena. One can only accept the Official Conspiracy Theory™ by disregarding lab analyses, the fact that the chairman of the 911 Commission has himself publicly said that government agencies lied to the Commission, along with literally hundreds of other datums that are in direct contradiction to the Official Conspiracy Theory™. While I don't claim to know all the details and names there is one thing I can say with certainty and that is that the Official Conspiracy Theory™ of "19Arabswhohateuscuzwe'refree" directed by a madman (a CIA employee no less) in a cave in a remote mountain comes nowhere near accounting for the observed events, phenomena, and contradictory data.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Send $800 to a PO Box in Abu Dhubai and you too, can get your own ***peer reviewed*** scientific journal article, and even be invited to be an editor so you can publish more for free!!! Such a deal.....
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley There is no physical evidence. Zero. There are no patents, nothing written up, and no demonstrations including any by either Harritt or Jones. Case closed.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I used to make thermite when I was 12, 13. Rust and powdered aluminum. Set it off with Fourth of July sparklers. Dangerous stuff, burns ragged holes through metal. I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to stuff it into the WTC and trying to set it off.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
I already showed you a picture of an iron worker using a cutting torch on WTC post-crash. Here is is again. From the same place the Truthers got their photos, but conveniently ignored. He's just lit the oxy-acetylene flame and is adjusting it. They make angular cuts to make sure the remaining part of the building fall where they can be cleaned up easily.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Me too. I used magnesium ribbon. And my Dad was a highway superintendent who switched over to ammonium nitrate from dynamite when blasting through granite mountains. Cheaper than dynamite and more bank for the buck.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley The Chinese sure know how to build, don't they? It burned a lot hotter and a lot longer than 7 did. It didn't fall. www.guardian.co.uk/world/...centre-tower-beijing-fire I'll watch your vids. If it is what I think it is, it just goes to show that there is bullshit on both sides. That is probably intentional. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or All the WTC buildings had designs intended to maximize rental space by using the exterior walls - including novel tube load bearing designs - for greater amounts of load bearing than conventional buildings which use more interior columns. Also WTC 7 exterior was severely bashed by falling beams from the Twin Towers that aren't shown in the CT videos, and had uncontrolled fires burning for hours fed by 43,000 gallons of diesel intended for the uninterrupted power supply which had its own pump continually feeding these fires. Finally the east part of the WTC (not shown in CT videos, shown on my links) collapsed 8 seconds before the West and by shifting the remaining load to the West during the collapse made the entire building collapse inevitable. Debunking 911: First Time in History (Steel Structure Collasping) There were a lot of firsts for the WTC. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been hit with a plane traveling 500 miles an hour and had its fire proofing removed from its trusses. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever had its steel columns which hold lateral load sheared off by a 767. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been a building which had its vertical load bearing columns in its core removed by an airliner. For Building 7, in all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been left for 6-7 hours with its bottom floors on fire with structural damage from another building collapse. Not the Madrid/Windsor tower did not have almost 40 stories of load on its supports after being hit by another building which left a 20 story gash. The Madrid tower lost portions of its steel frame from the fire. Windsor's central core was steel reinforced concrete. In all the history of high-rise fires, not one has ever been without some fire fighters fighting the fires. I could go on with the "Firsts" but you get the drift. The statement that the WTC buildings were the first high-rise buildings to collapse from fire is deceptive because it purposely doesn't take those factors into account. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley On the other hand: Is it more difficult to believe that BO is a lizard than it is to believe that he is a human being?
I think he's neither a lizard man or a human. I think he's nothing more than a trained primate.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Live free or It's true. He's somebody's tool. He can't make a decision before he has checked with his masters.
so you believe that one too, eh? :-) your wordy defense of the so-called establishment is not going to convince anyone. because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job. so your list of 'credentialed experts' can work both ways.Also, your use of God's name in vain in an internet squabble reveals much that you are lacking. you wrote 'You have nothing'; but more appropriate is the Scripture 'Without Me, you can do nothing' (John 15:5)
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 the flight to the moon so you believe that one too, eh? :-)...because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job. Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications....... Good one!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications....... Good one!!!!! Earth to AGGravator! Earth to AGGravator! Some of them are in the public record. I repeat: Some of them are in the public record. For example the Head of West German Intelligence. The problem with using any "debunker" website is that they have an agenda other than the truth. They will NEVER publish or post anything which damages their debunking case. This is in contrast with most of the 911 Truth sites (the legitimate ones not government PsyOp sites) who will publish and/or post anything which is relevant. That also applies to any flavor of so-called "skeptic" and/or debunker websites. Invariably you can count on them to twist and misrepresent facts, and the so-called debunkers have repeatedly been proven wrong, if not outright frauds using false information such as Popular Mechanics. Another favorite is "Snopes" which was outed as being just two people, no research capabilities beyond standard search techniques, and wrong. Because a website pushes the "Official Truth™" does not mean it is THE truth. If you hadn't noticed the government frequently lies and has a large disinformation presence on the 'net.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Hyperbole and invective, the standard opening k00kresponse to an alternate reality 99% of the rest of the world's population finds believable. What a surprise < /sarc>... More unsubstantiated assertions with zero proof produced to support them. Then there's the question of how our lucky poster just happens to personally receive this privileged informaiton. You do know there are zillions of pictures of the moon rocket taking off, with astronauts in the cabin, a constantly updated log of activities and pictures to support them, an exit from the atmosphere, photos of the earth from outer space, etc. etc. Just where exactly did that rocket and its occupants go, then? Did it make a quick right turn and land somewhere in the Pacific once it was out of view of TV cameras? What about the return. Where did that item recovered in the middle of the ocean with astronauts inside come from? And on the date it was broadcast. The capacity of CT's to disbelieve any and all evidence they don't wish to consider is truly amazing. Especially when they arm-wave without any specific citing of facts and numbers, while claiming to be upholding science. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Ohhhhkayyyyy. Tell me how many "911 Truth Sites" have put out the following; Just for starters...
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Whenever they say the WTC collapsed from the fire they always ignore the fact both buldings had huge airplanes loaded with jet fuel fly into them at 500 miles an hour. I thank God every day my mind is clear enough to not be a conspiracist.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
NO PLANE hit WTC 7 and yet it fell into its own footprint. Just think, on September 11, not one, not two, but three steel-framed skyscrapers all decided to just give up and fall down because of fire and none ever had before and none has since. It was the Magickal Jet Fuel™. I sure am glad they only made one batch of that. Another five or ten thousand gallons would have probably destroyed every building in America, maybe the world.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Good one!!!!! I suppose you never used Google much, eh? LOL!!! Yeah right, I'm sure they were positioning cranes over WTC7 right before it fell down...
Oh, it took what, 1 or 2 seconds more for the top of the building to reach the ground than if it had fallen through thin air? So what were the bottom 70 or so floors made of, butter? Hell, it'd take longer to fall through butter than what it did to pulverize 70+ floors of UNDAMAGED concrete and steel.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley How many people have tried to con us with that lame-ass explanation of what they want us to believe Silverstein meant? Some have tried to claim he meant to "pull the firefighters" but that wouldn't have been his call and they had already been out for a good while before that anyway. People who believe the government's stupid theory will believe just about anything (except the truth).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Good one!!!!! I suppose you never used Google much, eh? Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials Question the 9/11 Commission Report Like most Kool-Aid Drinkers he is data averse. His mind is made up now don't confuse him with the facts. I have reached the conclusion that there are really only two categories of 911 debunkers: Adherents to the goobermunt (Ours, England's, and Israel's) and their paid shills. (A subset of which is private organizations who operate for the Banksters.) The invincibly ignorant who have concluded, upon no good evidence, that it is impossible for it to have been a planned and intended event. It conflicts with their world view of Government Worship, and/or they have swallowed the PsyOps/PR hook, line, and sinker.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Your image is missing the support columns, and gives the impression the WTC towers were "floating" the floors with no support at all. Here are some images of one of the towers as it was being built... Here's some info on the construction if you're interested. "Pulling it with cables" is a new one on me, and certainly one of the most ludicrous and ridiculous explanations I've heard.
Yeah right, I'm sure they were positioning cranes over WTC7 right before it fell down... Yeah right, another snot-nosed opening CT remark, true to form. No, they were talking about ***pulling*** the firefighters back from the building so they would not die in its impending collapse, like the ones in the Twin Towers already had. However it is the CT's who claim that ***pull*** means ***explode*** instead of "pull back" or "withdraw." And within the building demolition industry, "pull" does not mean "explode," it means "pull down." So we have a word "pull" in k00kspeak being completely separated from normal English syntax and diction.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You're so easily amused. So tell me how "pull" means "pull with exlosives." Do you know that explosives "push" things away, not "pull" them towards? BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I can't believe there are still people who think they know all about 9/11, yet don't even look at the basic facts, they just believe the government and the media explanations. Apparently, the brainwashing is quite powerful.
Projection and Straw Man discourses are no substitutes for facts, logic, and proof.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Do you know that explosives "push" things away, not "pull" them towards? BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!! I'm not saying it was or wasn't meant to imply "pull with explosives". I was simply saying "pulling it with cables" is quite insane, since it would have been impossible to do so. Apparently, the "pull it" statement from Silverstein is a clever disinfo tactic meant to muddy the waters and lead people astray. Whether he said it or not makes no difference, and doesn't change the events or how they occured.
Other than direction, no substantial difference between the two. The WTC towers had a unique design with little or no lattice work between the core columns and the exterior tubes which carried a substantial amount of the weight in a unique tube design.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley "Pull" and "explosives" are mutually exclusive to cogent English speakers. Any and all assertions that Silverstein said "pull" as a substitute for "explode" are too idiotic to merit any response except ridicule.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Your diagram is missing the columns and implies the floors were somehow floating and had no support.
So do you find all of those military officials, intelligence officers, and scientists who question the official 9/11 legend are "KOOKS"?
Some of these "folks" shall calling you a "Psy-Op" momentarily. I hope you can take it.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
One other thing your diagram is wrong about is the fact that it shows the core as a linear shape, where it was MUCH thicker at the bottom than at the top, and was in fact tapered from it's largest section at the bottom gradually upwards towards the top section of the tower.
BTW, why did you shrink the image I posted in your response? Was it to give the illusion that the bottom core of the building was in fact much smaller than it actually was? The original image I posted; The shrunken image YOU posted; The actual bottom of the tower during construction; The Twin Tower floors were supported by trusses, which were suspended between the load bearing center core and the load bearing exterior walls, with little or no suporting columns in between. Do some research from reputable sources. Then look at picture of entire one- acre floors with almost no barriers between the core of the building and its exterior walls. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley "Pull" and "explosives" are mutually exclusive to cogent English speakers. Any and all assertions that Silverstein said "pull" as a substitute for "explode" are too idiotic to merit any response except ridicule. So, "pull the trigger" means to take the bullets out of the gun?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
When you "pull the trigger" does the ***trigger*** move towards you, or away from you? Hmmmm. Once again, "pull" means "move towards me" and not "blow up" to a coherent English speaker.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You know how it is. Pull means push, lies mean truth, war means peace.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
So what? The core column disintegrated into dust, which should be virtually impossible. That, and the exterior walls ALSO fell apart as if they were made of matchsticks. Those buildings were NOT some flimsy Lego structure, they withstood high winds for decades, AND one of them had a severe office fire years earlier which lasted for HOURS, yet had no issues with structural integrity. The fuel from the airplanes was consummed in the first few minutes after impact, and MOST of it was expended OUTSIDE in huge balls of flame. THAT is stated in the NIST report, and/or the FEMA report. So no, the buildings did not fall because the "steel got too hot", as most of the heat was wicked away by the rest of the building which acted like a huge heatsink.
The 3-level lattice works to the far left, beneath the crane, and the far right, mostly obscured, are not parts of the building. They are exterior scaffolding. There is additional exterior scaffolding, and crane framework, around the center core under construction. When finished, the center core was smaller than the photo shows because the scaffolding and the crane framework was removed.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Psy Ops 101.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Metaphors must be new to your planet.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than loved for what you are not. - Tommy The Mad Artist.
The buildings did not withstand 500 knot impacts with anything, shearing off of fire proofing, destruction of load-bearing center columns, and the ignition of tens of thousands of jet fuel, all at the same time. These factors combined to contribute billions of joules of energy that had to be dissipated somewhere, somehow. And that massiive distribution of energy reverberated throughout the buildings and started shaking things loose, causing eventual collapses.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley When finished, the center core was smaller than the photo shows because the scaffolding and the crane framework was removed. Oh, then where are the elevator shafts?
Metaphors compare similar items. They do not conflate contradictory and opposite things with each other. But thanks for playing.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Eventually, inside the walls of the load-bearing center columns, exactly where the architects and engineers said they should be. Imagin that. More dead space in the center, meaning more load shifted to the exterior walls with their unique "tube in a tube" design different from conventional lattice work. Hope that helps.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley My turn Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth?
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
The towers DID sway to some extent when they were impacted. They did NOT tumble down as soon as they were hit, and THAT would have been the ONLY way for them to fall if "that's where the energy went". BILLIONS of Joules? LOL, show me some calculations that can demonstrate that amount of energy was truly there. Oh, and you are flat out wrong on the impact speed. You stated 500 knots, which equates to 575 mph. The NIST report states 443 mph for WTC 2, and 546 mph for WTC1.
As far as people and motives, the most truthful account of 911 comes from Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 which I posted above, as well as several other statements OBL made then about wanting to bankrupt America through never-ending guerilla warfare, which is quickly coming to fruition. As far as the forensic analyses of specific factors, done by professional engineers, building industry experts, law enforcement, security and accounting industry researchers, the facts are largely settled decisively.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Bin Laden died in December of 2001.
Apparently you are quite the idiot, since it is those very people who are questioning the official story.
And then in October 2004 he returned back from the dead to ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Bull flocking shit. Show papers written by any of them backed by evidence and not internet k00klather hot air. Also show where they give their speeches and lectures.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley In fact, the REAL bin Laden CONDEMNED the 9/11 attacks... Hey genius, did you bother clicking on the link I posted? An imposter whom any reasonable person can easily see is not bin Laden.
Try this on for size Einstein... The above numbers are are correct. However given that kinetic energy from crashes depends on velocity squared, the energy rekleased from the crashes was still billions of joules: "Gigajoules" Energy Transfer in the WTC Collapse ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Hey brilliant one, that link talks about the COLLAPSE energy, not the IMPACT energy. One major mistake the author makes in his analysis is that much of the MASS of the WTC towers was lost LATERALLY in the dust clouds that were ejected, thus his calcuations concerning momentum are flat out bogus.
So a bunch of un-degreed kiddies without any real world credentials or expertise demanding an "independent investigation" equates to a refutation of official reports by the people who would be teaching them and mentoring them on their first jobs? Whooo-hoo. Where's their own investigation reports?
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley It was a simple question yet you're afraid to answer it with a yes or no. Let me repeat it: Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth?
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Arm-waving. The impacts had to have enough energy to initiate the collapses. I'm curious. How does it feel to be dead-ass wrong almost every single time you open your mouth or hit the "post" key. With the exception of the impact speeds. B-25 Empire State Building Collision (Compared to Boeing 767 WTC) This estimate is also conservative Most of the B-25 impact was absorbed by the building's exterior wall leaving very little to damage the interior structure. The 767 impacts, however, not only produced gaping holes in the WTC exterior but also destroyed much of the structural core at the center of each tower.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Even in tabloids the hoax has to be reinforced, albeit in a sarcastic way.
God is always good!
Since you can't show the calculations yourself, let me help. First off the maximum takeoff weight for a 767-200 is 315,000 lbs. The planes were NOT carrying maximum fuel as they were on a continental flight vs a transoceanic or intercontinental flight. But we'll work with the maximum figure anyways. Here's the equation; E = 1/2 mv2, where E = energy (joules), m = mass (kilograms), and v = velocity (meters/second) Converting pounds to kilograms, the max weight of the aircraft is as follows; 1 pound = 0.45359237 kilograms 315,000 lbs. = 14,881.6 kg [Edit: I inadvertantly copied the result wrong, it's off by a factor of 10, so the actual value should be 148,816 kg - FL] Now for velocity, we'll convert mph to meters per second. 1 mph = 0.44704 meters per second For the fastest plane, the velocity specified in the NIST reports was 546 mph. 546 mph = 244.1 meters per second Plugging the values into the formula we have this... (14,881.6 kg * (244.1 m/s)2)/2 = 443,358,664 joules, or 443.4 MEGA Joules. [Edit: 4.434 GIGA Joules- FL] That's a THOUSAND [Edit: ok, so I was off - FL] times less energy than you claim. And that's with the HIGHEST values for weight and speed, where the actual weight was less.
Let me repeat it: Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth? The only place a "government account of 911" exists is in your addled brain. Cite specific reports, dealing with specific subjects, instead of armwaving k00kblather about the gubmint conspiracies.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Already answered above Post #116, and you aren't including the energy from the jet fuel.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley So you ignore the 1222 DEGREED experts and hop on the students, what a honest person you are...
Bin Laden died in December of 2001. Lessee - my memory is hazy did Osama Ben Forgotten die before the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp or after the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp? I know it was before the amazing Nick Berg video PsyOp where he gets his head cut off by a Russian Speaking Muslim with a gold ring (forbidden in Islam) onlooking, with his turban tied the wrong way, and doesn't bleed from the severed Carotid Artery. Oh, and you can always tell when you are dealing with a "hired gun" disinformationist because they will never admit to ANY inconsistency in the "Official Conspiracy Theory™".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Are you dense? The maximum takeoff weight INCLUDES the weight of the fuel there genius.
YOU are reciting the "government account of 9/11" here, and reject any physical evidence which contradicts your religious belief in the "official 9/11 story".
Oh goodie, they have degrees. Where's their report? With facts, interviews, tables, and conclusions. And what does asking for an independent investigation have to do with saying something is totally false, hmm? Which they do not say at all. Is their report going to show up in some "Send $800 to Dubai to Get Published" journal?
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley So you ignore the 1222 DEGREED experts and hop on the students, what a honest person you are... It is always amusing, and always predictable, that when you corner a Septic/Disinformationist that they will focus on a minor detail and attempt to inflate it into a Strawman Argument to divert from the point they are unwilling or unable to address without having their argument filed in "File 13". Next he'll try "Peak Oil" or "Glowbull Warming".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
That is an outright lie, as can be easily seen by anyone with an understanding of high school physics and the ability to look up specs from Boeing.
Where's their report? With facts, interviews, tables, and conclusions. Are you too freaking lazy to click the link?
Projection and arm waving. Once again, cite specific documents, subject matter, conclusions, and facts.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You got to be one of the dumbest Israeli boot lickers of all time. The buildings were designed to withstand jet planes hitting them. They were designed to sway in strong winds. The impact didn't cause the building to sway any more than a windy day would. The wind never shook things loose and caused it to collapse in all the years it was standing. The 1975 fire in the North tower, which was much longer and hotter than those of 9/11, didn't melt the steel starting a collapse. Go ask your uncle izzie if he will help you with this one. LOL!
God is always good!
When it's obvious the person is ignoring actual evidence that is provided, comes up with false figures and fabricated "facts", and continuously asks for "proof" which has already been provided, you know you're not talking with someone who is here to discuss something rationally.
Oh, then what are YOU doing? Where are you pulling your "facts" from, your ass?
The KOOK here is you, where you pull numbers out of the air with no basis in fact, and present them as scientific evidence. Besides, point out ONE post I've made on this thread which mentions "gubmint conspiracies". Guilty conscience, eh?
So show the calculations, windbag.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Projection and arm waving. Oh, then what are YOU doing? Where are you pulling your "facts" from, your ass? I have posted and linked from one source after another. Next.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Oh goodie, they have degrees. Where's their report? With facts, interviews, tables, and conclusions. And what does asking for an independent investigation have to do with saying something is totally false, hmm? Which they do not say at all. Is their report going to show up in some "Send $800 to Dubai to Get Published" journal? Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. 14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10. Example: 'Since you know so much, if James Earl Ray is as innocent as you claim, who really killed Martin Luther King, how was it planned and executed, how did they frame Ray and fool the FBI, and why?' 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. 17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues. 7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive. Example: 'With the talk-show circuit and the book deal, it looks like you can make a pretty good living spreading lies.' 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You have posted from KOOK sites which lie about the impact energy, that and YOU have either lied in presenting the collapse energy as the impact energy, or you're too stupid to know the difference between the two.
Yes, that became readily apparent, oh, say, 75 to 100 posts ago. ;-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Hey genius, look at post 118, it's pretty simple to calculate the MAXIMUM possible energy value, and that would equal 443 Mega Joules, NOT Giga Joules. Can you follow simple math?
And the Titanic was designed to be unsinkable. The buildings were not designed to have impacts at full throttle, loaded with fuel for a trip across the country, shearing off of spray on fire protection, and impact speed great enough to cause penetration and severing of critical internal support columns. All aircraft within city boundaries are expected to fly below 250 Knots. No exceptions, even if explicitly authorized. The jets were traveling hundreds of MPH over that.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Hey genius, look at post 118, it's pretty simple to calculate the MAXIMUM possible energy value, and that would equal 443 Mega Joules, NOT Giga Joules. Can you follow simple math? That would require doing something not in the briefing book and tactics manual. Math?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Already answered #116. Try to keep up. I know it's difficult.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Moron, when fuel burns it releases energy totally separate from its weight.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance. 20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
In terms of IMPACT ENERGY, which YOU are trying to present in values THOUSANDS of times higher than physically possible, the weight of the airplane and fuel are the proper factors. When fuel burns, it release HEAT, not KINETIC energy.
Post 116 is bullshit, and presents lies as facts.
Who was telling the entire United States, on national TV, speaking in Arabic, in October 2004, that the military industrial complex was running America, that America was attacked not because of Muslims hating freedom but because of American support of Israel, and that ultimately America would become bankrupted fighting Middle East wars just as Russia got bankrupted in Afghanistan? Who exactly was on the TV at that time criticizing just about every conceivable action taken by the USG in its WOT and pursuit of OBL, idjit? Your mother?
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I never used impact energy. All energy must be considered. No cherry picking.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Show me the math. I used the reported velocity and the known MAXIMUM weight of the aircraft, and simple physics and math to arrive at the easily calculated MAXIMUM KINETIC ENERGY of the IMPACT. YOU show me how you can arrive at a figure in the GIGAJOULES range. And I don't want some BS link, I want YOU to present the values and the math.
You can't mix apples with oranges and come out with a solution in cherries.
And the Titanic was designed to be unsinkable. The buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a comparably sized Boeing 707. "...In the early 1970's the World Trade Center's chief structural engineer, Leslie Robertson, calculated the effect of the impact of a Boeing 707 with the World Trade Center towers. His results were reported in the New York Times where it was claimed that Robertson's study proved the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 moving at 600 miles an hour. Little did he know that decades later two aircraft, almost identical to the Boeing 707, would impact the towers. Other engineers are on public record as saying that the World Trade Center would even survive an impact of the larger and faster Boeing 747. The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds. The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet. The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet. The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel. However, the actual aircraft involved in the World Trade Center impacts were only flying from Boston to Los Angeles, and consequently, would have been nowhere near fully fueled on takeoff (the Boeing 767 has a maximum range of 7,600 miles (12,220 km)). The aircraft would have carried just enough fuel for the trip together with some safety factor. Remember, that carrying excess fuel means higher fuel bills and less paying passengers. The aircraft would have also burnt some fuel between Boston and New York. Government sources estimate that each of the Boeing 767's had approximately 10,000 gallons of unused fuel on board at the times of impact." A 707 has a faster cruising speed than a 767. The cruise speed of a Boeing 707 is 607 mph = 890 ft/s, So, the Boeing 707 and 767 are very similar aircraft, with the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and more fuel-efficient, and the 707 is faster. The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 707 is 4 x 18,000/336,000 = 0.214286. The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 767 is 2 x 31,500/395,000 = 0.159494. Since the Boeing 707 had a higher thrust to weight ratio, it would be traveling faster on take-off and on landing. And, since the Boeing 707 would have started from a faster cruise speed, it would be traveling faster in a dive. So in all the likely variations of an accidental impact with the WTC, the Boeing 707 would be traveling faster. In terms of impact damage, this higher speed would more than compensate for the slightly lower weight of the Boeing 707. The speed of impact of AA Flight 11 has been estimated to be 470 mph = 689 ft/s. The kinetic energy released by the impact of AA Flight 11 was This is well within limits that the towers were built to survive. So why did the North tower fall? The kinetic energy released by the impact of UA Flight 175 was This is within 10 percent of the energy released by the impact of a Boeing 707 at cruise speed. ..."
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You imply that the planes exerted GIGAJOULES of energy when they struck, so you are far from being honest.
Hard to tell because the video was so bad but the actor did not bear a very close resemblance to the real Osama Ben Forgotten. (Who by the way is Jewish - his mother was the Jewish Daughter of a wealthy Jewish, Mizrahim, Syrian Trading Family. So, under Talmudic Law he is Jewish.) Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.' You didn't really expect me to bite on that old worn out tactic did you?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Robertson said the following in an interview with Steven Jones in October 2006: “I support the general conclusions of the NIST report… The [WTC] was designed for the impact of a low flying slow flying Boeing 707. We envisioned it [to be like] the aircraft that struck the Empire State building [during] WW II. It was not designed for a high speed impact from the jets that actually hit it… ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Since a gigajoule is a billion joules, correct and already demonstrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You can't use ft/s to calculate joules directly, since joules are in the MKS (Meters/Kilograms/Seconds) system, not the English system. The English equivalent would be foot pounds.
True, a gigajoule is a billion joules, but you are WRONG in terms of the WTC impacts since the HEAVIEST plane and the FASTEST velocity resulted in 443 MILLION JOULES, as I easily presented in post 118.
True but you can easily convert from one to the other. I have a widget on my dashboard that will do it for me.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Twenty Five Ways to Tap Dance Around Specific Issues by Using Arm Waving Psychobabble. Great. An impostor Joo pretending to be an Arab gives a speech in Arabic saying that the US was attacked not because of its freedoms, but because of its support of Israel especially its brutal attacks on Lebanon and other Muslims since 1982. Then predicting and hoping that the US will go into bankruptcy - unthought of at the time the report was issued (Late October 2004). Some model joo agent. About as sensible as anything else you've had to say. Are you ever lucid?
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley And your point. You have yet to provide a credible mechanism that shows how an airplane impact accompanied by low temperature fires collapsed a steel framed structure in a linear descent, a mere one hour after the impact, almost exactly into its own footprint. You have routinely selectively omitted or misrepresented data throughout the thread. You used a graphic which omitted the heavy steel and concrete nature of the building cores, and you have provided no conclusive evidence which refutes the work of the scientists and engineers who have spent man days analyzing the physics of the collapse, nor can you, or have you, refuted the presence of energetic nanotherimites in the residue of the collapsed structures. The only thing you had was another disinformation tactic of accusing one of the individuals of trying to profit. However, you did not refute the actual data. Please feel free to continue diverting, avoiding, and using all the tricks of the disinformationist's trade, but any objective reader of the thread would conclude that you are Joe Isuzu's evil twin.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
For the 3rd time you are ignoring the energy from the burning jet fuel, which BTW at elevated floors sucking air from below burns hotter than normal, as any fireman with experience fighting updraft "chimney fires" can state.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley The facts that aircraft traveling at maximum speeds with substantial loads of fuel crashed into the WTC towers, set off fires, sheared off fire protection, and destroyed load bearing supports are completely undeniable. And within a few hours max of these impacts, the buildings collapsed. And there have been volumnious reports done by professionals who make their livings putting up and taking down buildings, correlating the two events. The burden is upon you to show these events were not correlated. You cannot do this, so instead go onto tangents about people, motive, eebil gubmint, and psychobabble.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley And within a few hours max of these impacts, the buildings collapsed. And there have been volumnious reports done by professionals who make their livings putting up and taking down buildings, correlating the two events. The burden is upon you to show these events were not correlated. You cannot do this, so instead go onto tangents about people, motive, eebil gubmint, and psychobabble. This is not a court of law. Fact is, steel doesn't need fire protection and the load bearing supports were not destroyed by fire.
The kinetic energy released by the impact of UA Flight 175 was = 0.5 x 395,000 x (865)2/32.174 = 4.593 billion ft lbs force (6,227,270 Kilojoules). The speed is a bit different than what NIST presented, where they report 546 for the speed of Flight 175 at impact, but those reports have ranged from 430 to 500 to 540. But we'll take 590 just for the heck of it.. 1 mph = 0.44704 m / s 590 mph = 264 m/s The maximum takeoff weight for a 767-200ER ( I had earlier thought it was a 767- 200, so I used a lower takeoff weight, but here I'll use the maximum takeoff weight of a 767-200ER) is 395,000 lbs. 1 pound = 0.45359237 kilograms 395,000 pounds = 179169 kg E = 1/2mv2 so... 0.5 * 179169 kg * (264 m/s)2 = 6,243,681,312 Joules, or 6.24 GigaJoules Thing is, the speed was not 590 mph, the highest reported speed was 546... So, with 546 mph, the result changes dramatically... 546 mph = 244.1 meters per second 0.5 * 179169 kg * (244 m/s)2 = 5,333,502,792 Joules, or 5.33 GigaJoules Looks like my first result was off by a factor of 10. Apparently I copied the result of the conversion from pounds to kilograms wrong. So AGAviator, ok, the impact energy WAS somewhere around 6 GJ or so, probably more like 3 or 4 GJ since the plane was only carrying half it's fuel capacity.
The burning fuel did not add to the IMPACT energy. It simply raised the TEMPERATURE of the structure.
1222 architectural and engineering professionals and 8794 other supporters including A&E students have signed the petition demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation. From your own link I don't claim to know what really happened on 9/11. I cannot examine the facts of the matter first hand. And I don't have the experience to know what's possible and what is unlikely regarding terrorist activities or military operations. For that analysis, I need to rely on experts. Many of the government employees have spent large portions of their careers studying espionage, terrorism, and military operations throughout the world and have personally planned and carried out United States' military and intelligence activities. Nor am I an architect, structural engineer, or commercial or military pilot. Their expressions of concern about the official account of 9/11 are also extremely important. I applaud the integrity and courage of all of the individuals listed on the website for publicly supporting the search for the truth about 9/11 in spite of opposition by our government and lack of support in the mainstream news media. And he explicitly wants to rely on the same educated and accomplished professionals I cite, and you trash as being part of the official conspiracy.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Provide the link, and cite the person's name. I don't see it anywhere at the link I posted.
And unevenly heated load bearing trusses and columns, causing extensive unbalanced torques and loads needing to be redistributed through an already seriously damaged framework.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley You posted it, you should research it. It's in there.
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley Nyuk, nyuk. Tell that to any fire protection inspector, any insurance company, any civil engineer and see how far you get...
----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Marley I take it you fabricated what you wrote. Here's one of the reports from the link that I actually posted... News - News Releases By AE911Truth Having had the privilege of speaking with Tom Sullivan, an actual explosive- charge placement technician, we have some new insights to pass along as to how controlled demolition works, where it started, and the effect that 9/11 had on the demolition industry. Sullivan gained his experience as an employee of the leading firm in this field, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI). Sullivan stresses though “I do not in anyway represent CDI and what I have to say is based on my own experience and training,” Sullivan attended high school with Doug Loizeaux of the Loizeaux family. The Loizeaux family, through the father Jack, independently started the whole controlled-demolition industry and turned it into a highly profitable business. Sullivan, before he became connected to CDI, was an independent photographer during his early years in Maryland. He would be sent to CD sites and take still pictures of the jobs. He became infatuated with the CD industry. The time came when he would do both, being the placer of the “cutter charges” on the primary joints, and photographing the jobs for promoting the business. Soon he would switch to full-time employee status of CDI -- as verified by AE911Truth’s verification team. "It was very interesting, but also very hard work, long hours, especially in the cold weather," Sullivan reflects. He stated that the days began early, around 6 a.m., and they would work until the sun was down. Sullivan had the experience of preparing a building by placing the cutter charges throughout the primary joints, and then, of course, watching it all come down. Sullivan notes that many weeks are required to “prep,” or weaken the buildings before demolitions. Steel frame buildings don’t just fall into their footprints at free-fall without major work throughout the building – even some before the placement of explosives. Sullivan emphasized as an aside, “Fire cannot bring down steel-framed high rises -- period.” One of Sullivan’s most exciting jobs was the colossal Kingdome in whose reinforced concrete structure he personally placed hundreds of deadly explosive charges. Working for CDI was, Sullivan stated, “a very unique experience.” He also said, "they were a close-knit family -- referring to the familial values of the Loizeauxs." “I learned from watching," said Sullivan. "There is no school that will teach you this, just hands on hard work." Sullivan took hundreds of project photos, through which he developed a deep passion for the trade. When asked, what made CDI the best in the business, he commented, “their family had all the experience because they ’invented’ the art of CD. They spent years traveling around the world, showing and educating people how this art form works.” Unfortunately, the business came to a screeching halt after 9/11. "People were scared -- if they were to hear a loud bang it was probably some kind of terrorist attack," says Sullivan in frustration. "Fear took over and there was no more business." Even Mark Loizeaux (CDI’s President) has been quoted as saying 9/11 ruined him. Sullivan had no choice but to leave CDI. Curiously, CDI had a role in the WTC cleanup through a subcontract under Tully Construction. On September 22, 2001, CDI submitted a 25-page "preliminary" document to New York City's Department of Design and Construction, a plan related to the removal and recycling of the steel.[¹] Sullivan stated that he knew from the first day that the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7 on 9/11 was a classic controlled implosion. Asked how he thought it might have been done he posited, “looking at the building it wouldn’t be a problem -- once you gain access to the elevator shafts…then a team of expert loaders would have hidden access to the core columns and beams. The rest can be accomplished with just the right kind of explosives for the job. Thermite can be used as well.” Brent Blanchard, the photographer from the controlled demolition company Protec, has said, in criticism of the CD theory, that there would have had to been detonation cords strung all over the place and casings left in the rubble pile from the cutter charges. So we asked for a response from Sullivan. He noted that: Remote wireless detonators have been available for years. Look at any action movie -- and of course the military has them. The reason most contractors don’t use them is that they are too expensive -- but in a project with a huge budget it would be no problem. As for the casings -- everyone in the industry, including Blanchard, would know that RDX explosive cutter charges are completely consumed when they go off -- nothing is left. And in the case of Thermite cutter charges, that may also be the case. Thermite self-consuming cutter charge casings have been around since first patented back in 1984. We asked Sullivan if all the floors in WTC 7 would have to be loaded with explosives in order for a successful controlled demolition. He responded, No, with steel framed buildings you really need only to load the bottom third to bring the building down. While at CDI we had a job in Hartford Conn, the CNG building, where we did just that. And it worked out beautifully. Recalling that Ron Craig, a Hollywood movie explosions expert claimed in a debate with us, that there would have been many blocks of broken windows if it were a controlled demolition. Sullivan reflected, The key word here is controlled demolition – in other words careful placement of charges -- always focused and precise. We are not talking about setting off a bomb here. The amount and type of explosives is an art and collateral damage can often be completely avoided. We asked about Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator of NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) who claimed publically in his infamous press conference at the “unveiling” of the Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 that there would have been a loud boom coming from a massive explosion if this had been a controlled demolition, and asked him about that. Sullivan said, “With any implosion there is never just one big explosion but rather waves of smaller explosions -- not unlike the percussion section in a symphony - - as each loaded floor is progressively set off.” And as Sullivan watched the towers collapse that day, like so many did, he pondered at how fast it all took place, and how suddenly and symmetrically they were brought down. "I knew it was an explosive event as soon as I saw it, there was no question in my mind," said Sullivan. Most of us agree -- it's not by chance that the first tower just happened to collapse -- then the second in the same manner. What convinced him completely is when he watched Tower 7 fall that day, "I mean, come on, it was complete destruction. I've seen buildings fall like that for years -- that was the end game for me." Keep in mind that Sullivan did this for a living for several years -- it is like second nature for him to see this type of demolition. If anybody would know, it should be him. But we went ahead and asked him, “Is there any chance that normal office fires (the official cause of the ’collapse’) could have been responsible for the smooth, symmetrical, free-fall acceleration of building 7? “Not a chance,” he retorted. We just wanted to be sure. When we asked him if he followed any of the 9/11 Commission hearings or that of the NIST reporting, he had the same answer for both "I have no tolerance for people who lie to me about what I know to be true. I threw my hands up in disgust and never watched another hearing after the first. As for NIST, I didn't even watch because I knew what to expect." He did however follow the final report on the collapse of Tower 7 and said it angered him that they could actually convince so many of their fraudulent claims. Sullivan first came into contact with AE911Truth through a friend that sent him the 9/11: Blueprint for Truth DVD. He watched it and was very excited that there was actually an organization out there trying to inform people of what he was trying to say since that fateful day. “AE911Truth is the most focused and organized group there is today in the 9/11 truth movement. There is no speculation," he said. "Blueprint for Truth is factual and impressive information based on science and physics, and was clear and concise." When asked if he agreed with the evidence the DVD brings forth, Sullivan responded, "It contains extremely compelling evidence." The final question we asked in this interview was, "How many architects and engineers does it take speaking in unison until people hear that there is a problem?" His response, "As the number grows it will be harder and harder to deny them -- but deny them they will." Note: 1) Sullivan came out from the East Coast to deliver a short but electrifying presentation on Friday and Saturday night, May 7th & 8th at the joint presentation of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Firefighters for 9/11 Truth. He joined Richard Gage, AIA, and Erik Lawyer on stage for 10 minutes and answered some key questions about the demolition industry, the CDI family of Loizeauxs, and the way the 3 WTC skyscrapers were destroyed. Prior to these milestone events he appeared with Gage and Lawyer on KPFA radio Berkeley on the program “Guns & Butter” with host Bonnie Faulkner who had a number of great questions for him. 2) "DO NOT COPY" watermarks on images were added by Tom Sullivan. These images may not be copied other than in the context of this article, or with his specific approval. The burning fuel did not add to the IMPACT energy. It simply raised the TEMPERATURE of the structure. As well even NIST now admits that most of the fuel was burned up in the first ten minutes. Remember the big fireball? That was the fuel load of one of the planes exploding - outside the building.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Interesting how in one of the photos it shows them placing an angled cutter charge. Hmmmmmmmm? Now where have we seen a steel girder cut off like that before?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
So you are admitting that IF there was a loss of structural integrity, then it would be UNEVEN, right? If the loss was UNEVEN, then the top of the towers should have slid off the lower part of the structure, or fallen down towards one corner. An object always takes the path of LEAST resistance, not MOST resistance.
Hmmm. As even your co-poster now concedes, several billion joules of all energy combined were released by the jet impacts. And within a couple hours max of this massive enrgy release the buildings collapsed. It is incumbent upon you to show how these several billion joules were not a factor in the rapid collapses after the crashes, and substituted for by several billion more joules sufficient to cause building collapses, delivered by unknown methods and means. Even discounting a certain amount of fuel leakage, far more fuel ended up burning inside the building than outside it. That's why a number of people chose to jump out of the windows to their deaths below, if you recall. If all or most of the jet fuel was burining outside, you'd think they'd stay in their offices indoors, no?
Here's an interesting analysis I've seen in the past... From THE JET FUEL; HOW HOT DID IT HEAT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER? Yeah! That's it!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I've already posted this picture 3 times. It's a construction iron worker adjusting his cutting torch in a man basket getting ready to make your angular cuts. Giving off {shudder} yellow sulfur- like smoke as he fine tunes the oxygen supply. Those 3-4 foot long thingies in the basket are cutting torches. Also note the X-shaped cut behind him and immediately to his right. Another cutting torch mark. Try to keep up.
Yes, I've used it before myself. Ol' Max, the anonymous Engineer who did that analysis, nailed it. I have seen on multiple occasions on multiple forums and it has, to my knowledge, NEVER BEEN REFUTED. It has been ignored and avoided a few times, but NEVER refuted.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Wrong, the fact is that energy was dissipated in the first few seconds of the impact, causing some swaying of the building. Besides, we are just talking about AVAILABLE energy, not the TRANSFER of energy to the structure, since the plane itself absorbed some of that energy by being ripped to shreds.
In all aviation, especially commercial aviation, passenger safety trumps fuel economy time and time again. Aircraft must not only have enough fuel for alternate destinations, they must also have enough fuel to make safe landings if one or more engines fail.
Looks like the guy is painting or something. What's that supposed to prove? Oh, you say he's CUTTING the column? I don't see a cutting torch in his hand.
A swaying building that has already had its load bearing columns seriously damaged is a damaged building with unpredictable consequences. And transfers of enregy from moving ojects to stationary objects make the energy go to the target, not the source.
The 767 could fly to Bejing on full tanks, it was only flying across the country from Boston to LA. It could land ANYWHERE in the country with half tanks.
whaaaaa? i don't know that i've ever seen you post what you think happened, only what you think didn't happen. can you tell me what's in your "addled" brain? ;)
So if I throw an egg at a brick wall, the wall is going to suffer more than the egg, eh? What school did you go to again?
Nyuk, nyuk. Tell that to any fire protection inspector, any insurance company, any civil engineer and see how far you get... You don't mean just any, but any of the ones that are bought and paid for and can't think for themselves.
Pretty lame. He's up there to cut, and that's what the elongated items in the basket are. This is from the same place the CT's have gotten their cherry- picked angular cut photos, so do your research and find out what that man is doing in the middle of all those torched columns. Ever used either a cutting torch or thermite? I've used both. Those are torch marks, not thermite. How the hell do you get an amorphous blob of thermite to produce a neat vertical "X" as shown directly to the right and the rear of the man in the basket? QED.
The standard CT last stand response. Anybody who doesn't drink the CT Kool-Aid is a big gubmint sellout. That's all for today, folks.
Regardless, we don't know for sure because the debris was carted off before any real investigation was performed on the debris for evidence. Neither you nor I can claim the above cut was made by a worker with a torch, or thermite. HOWEVER, there IS evidence of thermite, and molten metal WAS seen flowing out of the building BEFORE it collapsed. There is no way in hell the fires were hot enough to melt steel.
Yeah, or try to tell us what heroes Bush and Obama are.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't think Aggravator is playing.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Jonathan Swift had their number for sure.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't think Aggravator is playing. Cold, very cold. Just what I need while I set here sweating and drinking Lemonade.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I had to put Aggravator on my clown filter. It made me feel like this trying to read his drivel and agitprop.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. LOL! The good humor man huh?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yeah, something like that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Cheerful.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
OK, So you DO believe and promote the government version of 911. You're a paid gov shill, I can smell it all over you.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
That's all for today, folks. dang! ag you sure do sound like ewecon, a graduate of the ewecon school of debate even.
What else can a brainless pussilanimous one-line imbecile do? Here's the Gallagher nanothermite "consolation prize" on your way out, mewling loser.
I've used both oxygen cutting torches and themite. You've used neither. Burning thermite is an amorphous blob that does not and cannot make straight vertical cuts, period. If you had ever been within 10 yards of thermite for even 5 seconds you would know that beyond any doubt. The fact that you choose to quote some people so dumb as to claim it does make straight cuts sideways and vertically, but who have never been near the stuff personally, shows a mindset so steeped in groupthink it is willing to disregard direct evidence in favor of preconceived theories. Thermite Burning
U R A WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
When all fails, when you've long since lost the debate, why emulate your heeeeero eweKon and resort to braindead ridicule. Of course it proves nothing but it is good PsyOps.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What do you make of this picture? To do what, light your government issue crack pipe?
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Lost the debate? To idiots who've never been within 10 yards of either a cutting torch or thermite? Who claim that burning thermite, which produces melted liquid iron glowing and flowing at 2500 Degreees, can somehow make magic straight vertical cuts which are actually the product of cutting torches? BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! And who claim that none of this ever even happened? < So where did that rocket eventually end up, moonshiner? Did it take a trip to Mexico while the media were concocting their fake TV shows? Or go to Jamaica to sample the ganja? ROTFLAMO.
For you that would be a step forward. It would get your head out of your own crack.
While you have your head up the government's crack.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
by Enrico Manieri - Henry62 To understand the situation more clearly, I acquired photographs taken by Joel Meyerowitz, the only professional photographer allowed at Ground Zero. I have verified that in Meyerowitz's panoramic views, taken very shortly after the collapses from many locations at Ground Zero, there are absolutely no columns which bear the markings of straight or diagonal thermal cuts, contrary to the claims It is quite evident that the cuts were made at a later time, during debris demolition and removal. This can be deduced also by looking at the type of cut that characterizes the columns and beams that were loaded onto trucksfor removal and storage and is also exhibited by the debris stored in the well-known Hangar 17 of the Kennedy Airport in New York. Scenes such as the one shown below were quite normal at Ground Zero: Another cutting torch. Close up of aftermath of cutting torch work Gawd, what an argumentative and stupid fuckwit you are to keep repeating this CT babble for the last 8 years. Then proclaim yourself the winner of a debate about thermite without ever having been near the stuff in your entire life!
Tell me how burning thermite - which produces molten burning iron flowing freely - makes straight up and down vertical or angled cuts, one liner crackboy.
It really doesn't matter if thermite was used or not. It's obvious that controlled demolition of some sort was used to destroy the towers. Especially building 7. What do you think of this picture? Or this one? Only to you, after that line shows it leads nowhere. I think this one is a lot better because it tells a lot more.
What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this? What sort of force would create this? And transfers of enregy from moving ojects to stationary objects make the energy go to the target, not the source So if I throw an egg at a brick wall, the wall is going to suffer more than the egg, eh? So your "egg yoke airplanes" didn't penetrate your "brick wall" building exteriors or damage anything inside. They just scrambled themselves, then fell harmlessly straight down to the streets ,with the buildings none the worse for the encounters, eh?
Due to unshown events prior to the photos, the columns are already on the verge of breaking apart in the shown pictures. They're on the verge of breaking apart because they were violently separated from other building materials that were attached to them and seriously damaged to a point where they are ready to fall apart. With additional shaking and movement, the columns separate into pieces on their way to the ground. Gravity exerting its force on 40+ floors accelerating and falling on top of each other.
Due to unshown events prior to the photos, the columns are already on the verge of breaking apart in the shown pictures. They're on the verge of breaking apart because they were violently separated from other building materials that were attached to them and seriously damaged to a point where they are ready to fall apart. With additional shaking and movement, the columns separate into pieces on their way to the ground. What sort of force would create this? Gravity exerting its force on 40+ floors accelerating and falling on top of each other. They're steel columns. They disintegrated. Why? You actually think gravity will melt concrete and steel together like that?
For about 8 hours, they were subject to (1) Being violently torn away from other building materials they were attached to, subjected to tensions, torsions, and twists in the process, (2) Being hit by heavy other steel pieces falling at significant speeds from other buildings, (3) Depending on location, being subject to uneven heating from out of control fires, continuously fed by a large self-contained fuel system, and other unknown factors. I see things that have been crushed under many tons of pressure, not melted. However now that you mention it, there were smouldering underground fires and hot spots lasting for weeks afterwards of the collapses. Those are effects of the collapses, not causes.
Wow, you are here 24/7 aren't you. I wonder why that is...
For about 8 hours, they were subject to (1) Being violently torn away from other building materials they were attached to, subjected to tensions, torsions, and twists in the process, (2) Being hit by heavy other steel pieces falling at significant speeds from other buildings, (3) Depending on location, being subject to uneven heating from out of control fires, continuously fed by a large self-contained fuel system, and other unknown factors. None of those things you mentioned would cause steel columns to disintegrate. It looks melted, not crushed. How on earth could the buildings collapsing cause "underground fires and hot spots" for weeks?
You useless lying gov stooge, wipe that Barney Frank jiz off your face, it's gotten in your eyes. Show me ONE post I've made claiming like you to be an "expert" in explosives, you can't . I am an expert in spotting paid gov stooges, and YOU are as stoogy as they get. Now pack that thermite up your ass, it might be the only way you'll ever get the Gerbils out.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
If your photos are accurate, they did disintegrate without anything working on them as the pictures were taken. There's no evidence of any external forces, so the only possible conculusion is they were already in condition to disintegrate. This would have to be from whatever happened to them previously. The factors from the building collapse are known. The factors alleging extraneous causes are speculative. Melted items don't show clearly defined edges and distinct colors of clearly defined pieces. Something that's melted is a big blob with only a few colors. The buildings were on fire when they collapsed. The collapses of 47 stories buried burning and heated material in piles extending several stories underground. After the collapses the firemen continued spraying the debris pile with water. However putting water onto iron above 400 Degrees Centigrade produces an exothermic reaction which releases hydrogen which continues to fuel the fires. This fact was known as far back as the 1800's. The reaction between IRON AND STEAM is also very EXOTHERMIC and fast at temperatures above 400 deg C. This reaction produces Fe3O4 AND HYDROGEN. It is the classic example of a REVERSIBLE REACTION studied in Chemistry labs at high school. But believe it or not, back at the turn of the century, the reaction of iron and steam was used as an industrial process for the manufacture of hydrogen. I think iron and steam could have reacted in this way (at least for a while) and generated a lot of heat. What is more, the hydrogen released would have been converted back to water by reaction with oxygen, thereby generating even more heat. In this case spraying water on the rubble pile was like adding fuel to a fire! Now add in gypsum reactions with H2 and CO and we have a great source of SO2 and/or H2S to sulfide the steel! Perhaps the endless spraying of water on the rubble pile was not such a good idea! In the usual lab experiment on the reversible reaction of iron and "steam", nitrogen (or some inert gas) is bubbled through water to create a gas stream saturated with water vapor at room temperature. This gas is then allowed to flow into a glass tube about 1 meter long containing iron in an inert boat at its center. This assembly is heated in a tube furnace to some desired temperature, say 500 deg C. The hydrogen/ nitrogen gas mixture is collected at the outlet of the tube furnace. In the industrial process the feed gas might also be "water gas" which is a mixture of CO and water vapor. The outlet gas contains mostly H2 and CO2. I am sure there was plenty of water vapor AND oxygen in the void spaces in the rubble pile. This is the "steam" I am referring to. Please remember that the recovered pieces of structural steel were heavily OXIDIZED as well as sulfided. The most important oxidizing agents available in the rubble pile were obviously O2 and H2O. The rubble pile was not only inhomogeneous with regard to its composition, it was inhomogeneous with regard to its temperature. This was due to localized chemical reactions. Such reactions were capable of generating high temperatures in these localized hot spots. The demolitionists much beloved thermite is a good example, BUT NOT THE ONLY EXAMPLE. AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF WHATSOEVER THAT THERMITE, THERMATE, SOL-GEL NANO-THERMITE WAS EVER PRESENT AT THE WTC SITE!!!!!! It is irrelevant whether or not the steam was wet or dry, that is a chemical engineering notion only of interest in a closed and controlled system, usually under high-pressure, such as a steam generator in a power station. Water vapor was present in the rubble pile and water vapor reacts with iron releasing HYDROGEN. ITS CALLED A CORROSION REACTION: METAL + WATER = METAL OXIDE + HYDROGEN WHEN IT HAPPENED AT THREE MILE ISLAND IT CREATED A HYDROGEN BUBBLE
Wassa matter, boytoy, your circle jerks getting bored with ewe and ewe trying to come on to someone new?
I hate liars, groupthink k00ks, and mobs. I stopped posting on 07/07 at 18:22 and resumed posting on 07/08 at 0:23 You stopped posting on 07/07 at 21:19 and resumed posting on 07/08 at 3:02. When I started this little discourse, I clearly saw where it was going to go. It never fails that when it gets right down to it, the k00ks feel more comfortable discussing their wacked out theories and eventually trashing and spewing obscenities at anyone who disputes them, than they are looking at the real issues which underly US policies. Trying to give you all some alternate routes of discourse, I clearly stated (1) There is a USreal connection, however it takes a twisted path through Washington, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and OBL Afghan training camps, and (2) Noam Chomsky, one of the premier intellectuals of the 20th Century, stated that elaborate CT theories take discourse about post 911 events into areas not especially useful for changing policies and actions. The groupthink mob response of course was the usual all or nothing diatribes about their unsupported theories, and the trashing of Chomsky and similarly prominent professors as an intellectual lightweight. And then the attacks on me. Not that I care. Meanwhile, lionizing k00k professors Steven Jones - not even supported by his own University, and whose only "peer reviewed publication" was from an $800 hole in the wall in Abu Dubhai. And Niels Harritt, who alleges nanothermite was used at the WTC centers, but says As far as your fairy tales no Arabs were on the crashed planes. Wrong.
Hallucinations about remote-controlled airplanes and explosives in the WTC just dirvert people from real problems, however, I strongly suspect the Mossad knew the attacks were going to happen and didn't warn the U.S. government. They were tracking the plotters in the U.S.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
Have you been repeatedly called a "psy-op" yet? Until then, you can't join my league up the food-chain; this is when they start pursuing the selective "ignore filter" feature.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There were "Israeli art students," actually discharged IDF soldiers doing training for intel work, who lived within a few blocks of Atta and his companions and were tracking his calls. This has been documented and reported, including by Carl Cameron, before it was pulled. Other "Israeli art students" would go up to secure US buildings and check their security, and see if they could get in under the guise of selling the toy helicopters or whatever else they were supposed to be peddling. 2001: Israeli Spying on the US At some times when the behavior of the people tracking Atta is pointed out to Israeli supporters, they claim a warning was passed on to the USG but it was misrouted and ignored. That doesn't explain how the "Israeli moving company" knew exactly what was going to happen and where. And was ready with their movie cameras.
Nah, they went straight to their homoerotic projections.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "Truthers" were a government operation. People will always fall for a conspiracy theory, and the more ridiculous it is - - even if it's clearly impossble -- the easier they fall for it. What better way for the government to herd the sheeple than to give them preposterous conspiracy theories to divert them from real, serious problems?
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
My sentiments exactly. Similar to the the 1917 Russian communists controlling counter-revolutionaries, sowing suspision and divisiveness, by charging everybody not under their own control was a communist double agent.
WOW! You must have really stirred the hornet's nest up. It is proof that you can claim victory on the 9/11 fiasco for this thread. There is no way to tell these guys that the US government isn't smart enough to pull off this sort of crap. What the government does however is react as in the US Patriot Act which is often WRONG; it is subversive and counter productive and yields to later conspiracy theories. Still, I miss the days when other posters challenged these guys. Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That is not what is happening.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." A scapegoat is almost as good as a solution. Find a scapegoat -- and a conspiracy theory -- and people can be led like sheep.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
So what happened to "groundresonance" over a month ago? Just wandered off or found out there are REALLY a pile of K00Ks here?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
groundresonance was the kook.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Explain, please.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That is not what is happening. Which is more likely to produce the angled cut shown below? This? Or this?
false comparison
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." NO time, off to work.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." K00klogic evading a simple question challenging a cherished belief.
How would you know? You've never tried. You're always on about some bs like "Peak Oil" or "global warming." And no, Aggravator hasn't won anything on this thread. He's just proven that he believes the government's insane conspiracy theory, the wackiest one of all.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. (1) Which is more likely to produce the angled cut shown below? This? Or this? (2) Are there 2 Arabs in this photo?
I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ... although, I still think chemtrails and crop circles are for the mere brain-dead; I really find the stuff great humour in these days where so many other events are occurring.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Uh huh. How can they be "world class issues" when they aren't issues at all to most people? Most people have figured out that Al was lying to them and some of us knew years ago that the oil companies were lying about "Peak Oil." So you keep dwelling on bs like it's something very important. I guess someone needs to.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Amazing response. You should know by now, that your government keeps a "lid" on these topics .... and as a result, the issues appear to be "managed" or officially called "sustainable." Never-the-less, the common denominator or essential undercurrent issues such as "over population", "climate change" and "dwindling resource capability and capacity" completely imbue the economic, social and political aspects of our lives. Your response is symptomatic of my gut wrenching laffter........ ROTFL.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yeah, I thought it was good too.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Jimmy, jimmy, jimmy .... when did you start that process? Doesn't it make your head hurt? Go back and lay on your sofa after taking a lude, dude .... it is much easier and less stressful than considering the BIG_PICTURE.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh, that is something I have been doing a long time (thinking). Comes as naturally as breathing to some of us. I know that for folks who believe Al Gore fairy tales about global warming and oil industry fables about how we're going to be completely out of oil in the next fifteen minutes, thinking is not something natural or easy. But if you try really hard you might learn how to discern when people are having you on. I hope you can.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Not even close.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Yeah, right, go F yourself you government stooge.
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Uh huh. How can they be "world class issues" when they aren't issues at all to most people? Most people have figured out that Al was lying to them and some of us knew years ago that the oil companies were lying about "Peak Oil." So you keep dwelling on bs like it's something very important. I guess someone needs to. Well, at least he has job even if it is "catapulting the propaganda". A man's gotta eat and Sterno™ ain't that cheap any more.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I don't think that process has been very effective; in fact, it probably "stings" with your hot cup of tea scalding your lips as you can't do two actions at once. I have never advocated any idea presented by Al Gore. I know you think he REALLY created the Internet, though; and as a result, you have the highest recognition for the bastard.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Sure, we all have to get our grocery money some way. But don't you hate it when people are pissin' on your leg and telling you that it's raining? That is what the global warmists and Peak Oilers remind me of.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No, I know that Al believes that he invented the internet. I don't believe he invented anything more than lies about global warming.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I haven't seen your repeated rants concerning: WE ARE GOING TO DIE! THE BP OIL BARONS ARE IN CAHOOTS WITH THE BANKSTERS AND BIG_GOVERNMENT AND THE ROTHCHILDS! What happened? Cat got your tongue or shit into your keyboard?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Again, I have never advocated an article, group or even a blurb from or about Al Gore's ideas. So why do you bring him up? Because, GW is a fact?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Along with those who allegedly "beeeeeeeeeelieeeeeve" the "Official Conspiracy Theory" of "19ArabsWhoHateUsCuzWe'reFree" armed with Box Cutters could hijack 4 airliners, of which none of them were competent to fly, then leisurely fly for 2 hours unintercepted in the most heavily monitored airspace on the planet, and then manage to fly those aircraft through aerobatic maneuvers that would challenge a Master Pilot and crash them into major buildings for Allah*. *While leaving an incriminating trail by going out the night before drinking and whoring like gut liddle Muslims leaving a Koran conveniently in a bar where they had been drinking (forbidden to Devout Muslims) and leaving ever so conveniently a suitcase in an undistinguished car which contained incriminating materials and which was miraculously found within hours of the event {who had also been living with unmarried non-Muslim women in areas surrounding major military bases where they had been trained (and that last IS documented)}. Not to mention the immaculate unsinged Passports that survived the fireball that totally destroyed an aircraft, its occupants, and all other identifying information.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Tsk, tsk. Such language. Have the Spiders from Mars been chasing you around the house again?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Not at all. But I shall confess that after I wiped the other day, I saw Mr.Tidy_Bowl_Man riding an Original_Intent down the toilet.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I always suspected you were subject to delusions. That pretty well cinches it. What other little men do you frequently see?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well, for starters on this thread I see AGAviator kicked your ass. You think that logically splicing a few poly-syllables together makes you a word smith. Ever hear about how a million monkeys pounding on a keyboard can create the Encyclopaedia Britanica? You remind me of one.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
All this blathering and thrashing about, when you could be using your vaunted computer skills to hack into yukon or Mad Dog's photobucket accounts, finding court records, etc, to post for our amusement. Priorities, man.
Buck can do that? What's the hold up?
Naughty, naughty! Some of us actually have scruples. On chat boards, it is unwise to reveal personal data ... that is the stuff for Facebook champions, such as Bad_Eye.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
People with scruples always get "scru'd" by those who lack them. Mad Dog and Yukon certainly aren't worth invoking any.
Reallllly? BE has a big facebook following?????? The world has fallen apart.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" That didn't happen.
That didn't happen. More of poor buckie's delusions - kind of like the little men he keeps seeing in his toilet bowl.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It is best to address these folks without any underhanded gamesmanship. It is best to show them up in publick, assuming you can. I think I told you that I sneak over there all the time. Sometimes, I persist for weeks ... other times for mere hours. I think it is great fun!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
His dawgs have claws, too.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
It's kinda weird, OI. I'm concerned about our friend, buck.
AGAviator certainly kicked the shit out of Original_Intent on this thread. But for the one-celled amoeba brained believers in "chemtrails" such as yourself .... I can attempt to postulate or understand how you could choose otherwise. You strike me as one of those people that believe FEMA is creating millions of caskets getting ready to bury us ..... and that was another subject, 'eh?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I love ya, buck. Tell a friend if the little dudes in the toilet bowl start talkin to you. :) Out.
It's kinda weird, OI. I'm concerned about our friend, buck. Its best to just humor him a bit to keep him calm. That, and pray for him.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I bring him up because you are a proponent of his idiotic theory (and I assume that since I called it idiotic you won't labor under any delusions that I believe global warming is anything but bs, certainly not "a fact."). If you want to know the truth about "global warming" take some time to listen to Lord Monckton. He has some videos on youtube that completely destroy this hysteria that people who should know better keep pushing. Al does it for the money, or was doing it for the money. Don't hear so much from him now that it has been proven that he is just a big liar and swindler.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. *While leaving an incriminating trail by going out the night before drinking and whoring like gut liddle Muslims leaving a Koran conveniently in a bar where they had been drinking (forbidden to Devout Muslims) and leaving ever so conveniently a suitcase in an undistinguished car which contained incriminating materials and which was miraculously found within hours of the event {who had also been living with unmarried non-Muslim women in areas surrounding major military bases where they had been trained (and that last IS documented)}. Not to mention the immaculate unsinged Passports that survived the fireball that totally destroyed an aircraft, its occupants, and all other identifying information. Yes. What amazing coinky-dinks, eh? Who woulda thunk it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You're delusional, buck. Aggravator hasn't done anything close to that. Better lay off that Sterno for a while.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Actually, the hit on the Pentagon by Flight 77 is an example of marginal pilot struggling to control too much airplane, but assisted in his last moments by extra lift caused by a high speed "clean" approach to the target. The offices of the Pentagon's top brass including Rumsfeld, who had to have been the major target for Flight 77, face the Potomac northwards, where the 270/330 degree turn started. The airplane was lined up correctly to go down the Potomac, then put itself into a hard right turn and fly directly into the north-facing offices including Rumsfeld and top DoD officials. However, because the planners and the pilot were unfamiliar with flying large airplanes, they didn't take into account that power dives create extra lift, especially on larger birds. This means when Hanjour started his power right turn, trying to descend 7,000 feet in a few minutes while not cutting back on power, he got way more lift than he expected, and could no longer hit his original target facing north. So now he finds himself overshooting the Pentagon, trying to get his plane down while traveling 400 mph, and needing some other place to target to hit the building at all. So to compromise he widened his turn radius and now was targeting the Pentagon's back instead of its facade. As he got closer to the ground coming in from the back, Hanjour got even more lift from what's called "ground effect." Aircraft flying close to the earth, especially low-wing "clean" planes without landing gear down or flaps deployed, float on a cushion of air that's trapped between the plane's underbody and the earth. When you're flying clean and close to the earth, it's just about impossible to contact the ground without a major effort. The trapped air cushion keeps you from hitting the earth in just about all circumstances. Flight 77 did clip a number of light poles on its way in. The engines and the airplane didn't dig big holes into the ground because the wingfs and fuselage were partially shielded by ground effect. When they did hit things, the hits were shearing impacts which glanced off the objects and allowed the plane to continue moving forward. The "Small Hole in the Pentagon" Claim There was debris of shredded aircraft skin on the front lawn. Why should they plant this material? The first image of the security camera at the guard shack in all likelihood was digitally manipulated to cause dissension and distraction in our 9-11 skeptics/truth community (one clue was that it had the wrong date attached to it). If someone precut the bolts of the light poles and rigged them to fall over, wouldn't that leave a possibility for the automobile drivers to notice that and report some funny business on this matter? Those who say it was stage- managed to look like a 757 crashed there are just making things more complicated for them to pull it off. Why should they stage-manage the Pentagon crash at all? I think it is most logical that the hijackers, if they were truly even on the aircraft, were hijacked themselves by remote control technology. This is what makes the most sense with the available evidence. People like Eric Hufschmid, who was one of the first to have a big impact on persuading many of us that flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, upon further discovery, have proven to me to be an incompetent researcher. And possibly even worse, he has shown a desire to discredit our work by association. He has shown a real disdain for a democratic republic. He holds himself up as being smarter than most of the public even though all the while he peddles nonsense about the Apollo moon landings as being a hoax. If you don't believe this is the case about Hufschmid just read the junk he has on his web site: www.erichufschmid.net Also, if you haven't seen my web page featuring an exchange with Eric over the Apollo business please do so. Be sure to read what he said in his last letter (this reveals his fascist pro military dictatorship leanings): http://home.pacbell.net/skeptica/apollohoax.html I don't mean to give offense to those busy people who are new to this Pentagon research or who just haven't gotten around to a study of what evidence is available and through no fault of their own have been swayed by the presentations of people like Hufschmid. I, at one time, counted myself in that same category. Hufschmid has shown that he has a lot of time available and hence has no excuses for presenting his falsities, even after a couple of us have tried to show him his errors, he hasn't budged. Vince Sauve
You're delusional, buck. Aggravator hasn't done anything close to that. Better lay off that Sterno for a while. Hey jerkwad. Dispense with your bull$hit rhetoric and answer today's "CT Challenge" questions. (1) Which is more likely to produce the angled cut shown below? This? Or this? (2) Are there 2 Arabs in this photo?
Thanks for the cathartic encouragement. I dumped, Original_Intent's consistent whining weeks ago. I feel just fine, now.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You are not well read. All the slum lord did was use a method that was popular to excite the rabble-rousers making him a Billionaire. Please calm down. The politicians want you to believe in them. I don't ... and why should you?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
How closely are you and Badeye related? He was always saying that same $#it. Only he said, "Your not well read." Maybe since he is your family and all you can explain the difference between your and you're to him. At least give it a shot.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. One of my best friends, Barbara Olson was on that flight. Some of these lamers think that we forget about friends and loved ones. But, the conspiracy goes on.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I am bit more closely related to substantial English grammar in both written and spoken capability. Sorry for the confusion but it was a twit or a dolt that used that expression as you point out.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yes, there were bodies when they could find them.
No rational person[edit: American foreign intervention around the world must be changed to ensure our own sanctity while living peaceably (if possible) with others. As a nation, we have made enemies mingling in their own affairs while the actual reasons were for ensuring continuous oil supplies here in America and other allied nations.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Your photo spread is visual disinformation. Your photo of a cutting torch shows it cutting a straight line in a steel block. It does not show it cutting the beam in the photo above. Also note that it leaves very little slag as opposed to the cut beam where we can see that a very significant amount of slag at the point the beam was severed. Your photo of a burning pool of, presumably, thermite is also misleading for a couple of reasons: A. Thermite for cutting operations is produced as a cord which you can then wrap around that which you want to cut. B. Nano-thermite has some distinctly different characteristics: It burns hotter than standard thermite. And since it is a micro-fine powder in can be placed in a film, a medium and literally painted on, or into an extruded high energy/high temperature cutting cord. Additionally because its performance, unlike conventional explosives, can be tuned it can perform as an explosive as well as a high energy heat source. More simply - it releases much more energy per unit of time than standard thermite. Your photograph of one of the alleged hijackers proves nothing as we both know it was taken at a different airport than any of the flights of 911 originated from. Oh, and please show us where his name is on any of the Passenger Manifests. Of course we both know it is not there and so you cannot produce that which does not exist.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The angular cut cited as evidence of a conspiracy is a straight line on a steel structural member. Whether the item being cut is a steel structural member or a steel block, or it's a 45 degree angle or a vertical angle, is quite beside the point. Both cuts are straight with little dribblings of slag on their edges. Furthermore the publisher of the steel block cutting saw the entire photograph collection of the only photographer allowed into the WTC center collapse post- crash. The photographer and the debunker confirm there were no angular or straight line cuts until the cleanup crews began their work. Then the cleanup crews used cutting torches, which is where the CT photo comes from. The cutting torch is shown in several different photos I posted making exactly the same types of cuts as the angular cut. Rotating the cut 45 degrees changes nothing.
The angular cut cited as evidence of a conspiracy is a straight line on a steel structural member. Whether the item being cut is a steel structural member or a steel block, or it's a 45 degree angle or a vertical angle, is quite beside the point. Both cuts are straight with little dribblings of slag on their edges. Furthermore the publisher of the steel block cutting saw the entire photograph collection of the only photographer allowed into the WTC center collapse post- crash. The photographer and the debunker confirm there were no angular or straight line cuts until the cleanup crews began their work. Then the cleanup crews used cutting torches, which is where the CT photo comes from. The cutting torch is shown in several different photos I posted making exactly the same types of cuts as the angular cut. Rotating the cut 45 degrees changes nothing. Thermite producing molten iron which flows freely according to gravity leaves 10 times more slag than any cut. There is no such slag residue from any thermite in the CT angular cut photo. Thermite can't be packed vertically to make vertical cuts. Again. Once thermite starts burning molten iron is produced which flows according to gravity, not how it was packed. You have no pictures of thermite making vertical cuts, because it can't be done so there can't be any pictures. Wrong. All your alleged information is fromo one thoroughly discredited source: Niels Harritt. Harritt himself cannot say anything about how "nano themite" is made or what its specific properties are. In a TV interview he defers all discussion to the US government. However the US government does not claim anything about "nano- themiite" other than they are working on it. It has not had anything published, its information is not classified, and there are no identified items which use it. Furthermore, Harritt got his initial start in his "911 research" by looking at a highly edited and manipulated CT disc his girlfriend/wife put into the CD player. Yeah, that's some reseacher all right. Atta used several different names and had several different passports. He also reported his original passport lost so he could get a new one not showing his travels. On September 11 he transfered from Portland Maine Airport to the New York Flight 11. Two separate flight attendants described the hijackers, gave seat numbers, and some names in recorded phone calls. Minutiae about paperwork pales in comparison to eyewitness recorded testimony as the events were happening real time. Hijackers in the September 11 Attacks Betty Ong reported that "the four hijackers had come from first- class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B."[5] Flight attendant Amy Sweeney called a flight services manager at Logan Airport in Boston and described them as Middle Eastern.[5] She gave the staff the seat numbers and they pulled up the ticket and credit card info of the hijackers, identifying Mohamed Atta al-Sayed.[6] Mohamed Atta was heard speaking over the air traffic control system, broadcasting messages he intended for the passengers.[7]
None are so blind s those who will not see.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." wow I bet you would trade a cow for magic beans too. riddle me this oh keeper of all official conspiracy theory knowledge; why was the initial report that a truck bomb had gone off at the pentagon, and were you beachloser in another life?
Yup, here's a prime example of the CT'ers making an assertion that nano- thermite is hotter than real thermite.
The only place such report existed was on an internet k00ksite. Hers is a partial list of passengers on Flight 77, reported by USA Today. None of them was ever seen by their families after the aircraft took off. Many of them got funeral remains during and after the investigation. What happened to them if Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon as stated.
Wrong again Buzzard Breath. As now seems par for the course you attempt to twist other people's positions into a strawman and then attack the strawman. Did I refer to Niels Haritt in my post? Well? I drew on several papers none of which were written by Niels Haritt although I might also reasonably point out the science is not refuted by ad hominem attacks. If the journal that published it is questionable that does not prove the data false it proves the journal questionable. Combustion characteristics of A1 nanoparticles and nanocomposite A1+MoO3 thermites Tunability of Nanoenergetic Materials (pdf 228k) Initiator Project Description (pdf 62k) Interestingly NIST has some of the top people in the nano-thermite field and yet they are mum on the subject. Although a lot of the work they have done is for military research and is classified, but they could address the basic question as to the presence of aluminothermic Super Thermite (which is the other name used for it) but they have not and very likely will not, because to do so and maintain the NIST stonewall they would have to lie, and lies would be provably false. Most interesting. And again you use misleading graphics to misrepresent what can be done with the technology. High energy aluminothermic compounds as used in a very small scale petri dish compared against a flaming pile is a dishonest comparison. This is the logical fallacy known as the false or Weak Analogy. One of the most interesting properties of nano-thermites is their tunability i.e., it can be made with any metal oxide and different results can be achieved - from simple heating on a michrochip to use as a component in a solid state detonator, to creating a high energy explosive. Although in your case I suspect the misrepresentation is no mistake and purely intentional. At this point you are simply clutching at straws launching ad hominem attacks against a strawman source I have not used nor referred to except in one secondary reference many many posts back in the thread. As for the sulfur issue - all in context. Removing an individual datum from its context allows for a wonderful way to take one datum in isolation. By stripping away the relevant contextual and associated data it allows for a multiplicity of mischiefs and the presentation of a false conclusion. So, the drywall had sulfur in it. Did it have microspheres of iron/steel, which are only created at high temperatures, too? Did the drywall also have nano particles of FeO3 as part of its make-up? That also was also found, in context, with the sulfur and the high temperature microspheres? I think it nicely underscores the strength of your vacuous counter that you have to resort to Strawman Arguments, Argumentum Ad Hominem, Guilt by Association, and Red Herrings to try to counter an evidence based argument.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
All is well, obama is your enlightened master Obey, Obey, Obey! WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
Example would be the Enquirer's publication of the blue dress info. I question the Enquirer as a publication but the information about the blue dress was correct. Gotta love how Men in Black used that.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." Wouldn't surprise me. He is not the only one either.
"With respect to the words general welfare, I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." What happened to them if Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon as stated. Just a wild stab. You don't think a group of sociopathic criminals who set up a PsyOp killing nearly 3,000 people to launch wars killing millions of people would actually whack the passengers as part of the PsyOp do you? Some peoples kids.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
The nerve.
Example would be the Enquirer's publication of the blue dress info. I question the Enquirer as a publication but the information about the blue dress was correct. Gotta love how Men in Black used that. I gotta watch that again. The only time I saw it I was before I stopped watching TV and I missed part of it because I didn't know it was on. I avoided it in theaters because I expected it was a PsyOp movie. It was, but it was still funny.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Hey, you got 3 hunnert.
Hee, hee.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yeah, I saw that after the fact. Serendipity. When you're hot you're hot. :-)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
3:00:03 Something about the numbers....
bet on it
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
3:00:03 Something about the numbers.... I think Sting got it right: "We are Spirits in the Material World".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
...and "Synchronicity".
Yes, and that is what the NWO crowd is fighting against. They're swimming upstream now as things begin to align against them, and soon they'll be like cockroaches in a jar.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
No amount of riches or lies or bombs will keep the Spirit from visiting them in their dreams.
The FDR data contradicts the official fairy tale which you are parroting.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#2. To: PSUSA (#1)
Why does anyone believe anything he says? I mean, come on!
#3. To: PSUSA (#1)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#4. To: Turtle (#2)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#5. To: Artisan (#3)
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#6. To: Turtle (#2)
He used to be a soccer player and I think the ball hit him in the head too many times.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#7. To: PSUSA (#5)
Here is a favorite and I never miss a chance in posting it. killtown.911review.org/pentalawn.html
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#8. To: James Deffenbach (#7)
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#9. To: Turtle (#0)
#10. To: Turtle (#0)
The voting public would never vote for a space reptilian and if the plan for world domination ever leaked to the general there would be mass chaos, thus the Republican party could never reveal Obama's true ancestry and the reptilian conspiracy continues.
#11. To: PSUSA (#5)
thermite/thermate (neither are explosives)
#12. To: HOUNDDAWG (#11)
(Edited)
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#13. To: PSUSA (#12)
#14. To: HOUNDDAWG (#13)
but exothermics work great with nothing but the form fitting (and low profile) porcelain molds to contain them.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#15. To: PSUSA, HOUNDDAWG, wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#14)
...By early 2009, the residue testing that NIST refused to do had been done by independent researchers, and reported on in a peer-reviewed chemistry journal. Small bi-layered chips, found consistently in dust samples, have layers of red nano-engineered material that is clearly aluminothermic: it has sub-micron-diameter particles of largely of elemental aluminum, and smaller crystalline grains of primarily Fe2O3. On ignition, the chips produce temperatures above the melting point of iron, leaving tiny iron droplets matching the residues of commercial thermite pyrotechnics. ...
The conclusion of Active Thermitic Materials Discovered reads, in part:
3. On treatment with methyl-ethyl ketone solvent, some segregation of components was observed. Elemental aluminum became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly identified in the pre-ignition material.
4. Iron oxide appears in faceted grains roughly 100 nm across whereas the aluminum appears in plate-like structures. The small size of the iron oxide particles qualifies the material to be characterized as nano-thermite or super-thermite. Analysis shows that iron and oxygen are present in a ratio consistent with Fe2O3. The red material in all four WTC dust samples was similar in this way. Iron oxide was found in the pre-ignition material whereas elemental iron was not.
5. From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite.
6. As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430ºC, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching fairly closely an independent observation on a known super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition and the presence of iron-oxide grains less than 120 nm show that the material is not conventional thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900ºC) but very likely a form of super-thermite.
7. After igniting several red/gray chips in a differential scanning calorimeter run to 700ºC, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and spheroids in the residue, indicating that a very high-temperature reaction had occurred, since the iron-rich product clearly must have been molten to form these shapes. ...
#16. To: Original_Intent (#15)
#17. To: HOUNDDAWG (#16)
#18. To: PSUSA, buckeroo (#14)
All I am saying is that this thermite issue is not important, and AFAIK there is no evidence for it. It's a distraction. Cutting charges can do the job very well. They are used all the time.
Never mind all the scientists and engineers who present findings to the contrary, this one paper is all they want to hear about. Thermite was used by the cleanup crews to remove the large metal pieces of the structures that could not be removed as a whole pice. The claim that thermite brought the towers down is not backed-up by survivors, who would have seen thermite burning, as well as the large amount of smoke.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#19. To: PSUSA (#12)
Cutting charges are shaped high explosive charges. They cut right thru steel with no problem. Why use thermite when cutting charges have been used for years?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#20. To: AGAviator (#19)
Also various substances alleged to be evicence of naon-thermite - which is never clearly defined - are actually ashes and debris from sources as diverse as incinerated office copy machine toner, paint, carpeting, and furniture.
#21. To: Original_Intent (#20)
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#22. To: Original_Intent (#20)
The physical evidence supports the use of nanothermites.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#23. To: Original_Intent (#20)
The links I provided to above are analyses done by Chemists and Physicists who know their profession and know what they are looking at.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#24. To: PSUSA (#14)
(Edited)
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#25. To: AGAviator (#24)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#26. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, Artisan, *9-11* (#24)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#27. To: wudidiz (#26)
(Edited)
Noam Chomsky is not all that bright.
In the spring of 1969, he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford University; in January 1970, the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at University of Cambridge; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi; in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden; in 1988 the Massey Lectures at the University of Toronto, titled "Necessary Illusions: Thought Control in Democratic Societies"; in 1997, The Davie Memorial Lecture on Academic Freedom in Cape Town,[97] and many others.[98]
Stick around long enough and you will eventually lose any 9/11 argument here.
Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, Director: Mark Achbar and Peter Wintonick (1992)
Last Party 2000, Director: Rebecca Chaiklin and Donovan Leitch (2001)
Power and Terror: Noam Chomsky in Our Times, Director: John Junkerman (2002)
Distorted Morality—America's War On Terror?, Director: John Junkerman (2003)
Noam Chomsky: Rebel Without a Pause (TV), Director: Will Pascoe (2003)
The Corporation, Directors: Mark Achbar and Jennifer Abbott; Writer: Joel Bakan (2003)
Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land, Directors: Sut Jhally and Bathsheba Ratzkoff (2004)
On Power, Dissent and Racism: A discussion with Noam Chomsky, Journalist: Nicolas Rossier; Producers: Eli Choukri, Baraka Productions (2004)
Lake of Fire, Director: Tony Kaye (2006)
American Feud: A History of Conservatives and Liberals, Director: Richard Hall (2008)
In the Time We've Got, Director: Christopher Ives (2008)
Chomsky & Cie Director: Olivier Azam (out in 2008)
An Inconvenient Tax, Director: Christopher P. Marshall (out in 2009)
The Money Fix, Director: Alan Rosenblith (2009)
Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space, Director: Denis Delestrac (2010)
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#28. To: AGAviator (#27)
So I'm not going to get too consumed with rebutting every CT because people with common sense know they're not right to begin with and it's a waste of time and energy to put a lot of effort into time-traveling into that Alice-in- Wonderland rabbit hole.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#29. To: AGAviator (#27)
#30. To: PSUSA (#28)
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Thermite was used by the cleanup crews to remove the large metal pieces of the structures that could not be removed as a whole pice.
That sounds like BS to me. Why use thermite when cutting torches would do the job? Where is the proof that this was done??? He doesn't give it.
One of the pieces of evidence conspiracy theorists use to say the buildings were brought down is a photo with something they interpret as being left behind by a thermite reaction.
More info on the above link.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#31. To: Eric Stratton (#29)
(Edited)
Oh boy, a long laundry list of establishment blow-job credentials.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#32. To: AGAviator (#31)
What the eff was the idiot doing bringing a supposedly explosive and pyrotechnically active substance to one press conference, ignoring all safety precautions that would have been needed, then failing to produce any kind of demonstration showing the goddamn stuff could even be ignited, much less made to explode.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#33. To: AGAviator (#31)
#34. To: AGAviator (#31)
#35. To: AGAviator (#30)
#36. To: Original_Intent (#35)
Great shot of the angular cut beam. Straight sheer planes like that happen every day when heavy structural steel fails in catastrophic collapses. Way to go! /Sacasm
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#37. To: Eric Stratton (#34)
I suppose that you're also one of those that still thinks that a "Harvard education" or an "Ivy League education" means that that person is intelligent too.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#38. To: farmfriend (#36)
Great shot of the angular cut beam. Straight sheer planes like that happen every day when heavy structural steel fails in catastrophic collapses. Way to go! /Sacasm
#39. To: Original_Intent (#38)
You mean that slag from molten steel doesn't always form in Class Alpha (paper and wood) Office Fires?
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#40. To: Original_Intent (#35)
(Edited)
Great shot of the angular cut beam. Straight sheer planes like that happen every day when heavy structural steel fails in catastrophic collapses. Way to go! /Sacasm
There are a number of things they claim with this photo.
At New Scientist we love a good hoax, especially one that both amuses and makes a serious point about the communication of science. So kudos to Philip Davis, a graduate student at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, who revealed yesterday on The Scholarly Kitchen blog that he got a nonsensical computer-generated paper accepted for publication in a peer-reviewed journal.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#41. To: Eric Stratton (#33)
What are you, a made for the MSM wooden head?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#42. To: AGAviator (#37)
#43. To: AGAviator (#41)
#44. To: Eric Stratton (#42)
But again, it has little to do with my point about blow-job qualifications.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#45. To: AGAviator, farmfriend, Eric Stratton, wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#30)
I don't want to take up several pages copying it to here. Those debunkers do a bang up job rebutting the CT pablum.
By Gerard Holmgren
1-31-6
#46. To: Eric Stratton (#43)
So you think that citing a list of blow-job academic and "within the system" credentials is research," much less independent research, much less any research that means a shit?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#47. To: AGAviator, Turtle (#40)
Mahmood Alam, Bentham's director of publications, responded to queries from New Scientist by email: "In this particular case we were aware that the article submitted was a hoax, and we tried to find out the identity of the individual by pretending the article had been accepted for publication when in fact it was not."
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#48. To: PSUSA (#47)
Meanwhile, Turtle is probably giggling like a little schoolgirl. The little shit-starter.
#49. To: Original_Intent (#45)
Conspiracy theorists say World Trade Center 7 is the best proof for controlled demolition because it wasn't hit by airliners and only had a few fires. They also claim that there was a confession from the building owner who said he "pulled" it. But this is deceptive because while building 7 wasn't hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 400 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7. Below is evidence showing that conspiracy theorists are wrong.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#50. To: AGAviator, all (#40)
[quote] Thermite in general makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts. It's a powder that undergoes a violent chemical reaction...[/quote]
#51. To: PSUSA (#47)
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#52. To: Original_Intent (#50)
Nanonthermites, a fairly recent and very advanced iteration of an old product, is a different fettle of kish. It has both heat generating and explosive properties based upon how it is applied and/or ignited. Attempting to refute the physical evidence
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#53. To: AGAviator (#49)
A complete bull$hit statement that anybody who has worked with either can state
#54. To: Original_Intent (#50)
One can look at the sharp angular cut of the beam, along with the telltale slag from having reached a molten state and know that the beam was sliced intentionally in some fashion. A paper fire does not do that, nor burning office furnishings, Jet fuel, or any of the other proposed mechanisms. The best the debunkers can come up with is the assertion that someone might have cut it after the fact while providing no sound rationale for cutting it at a steep angle
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#55. To: Turtle (#53)
I used to make thermite when I was 12, 13. Rust and powdered aluminum. Set it off with Fourth of July sparkle
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#56. To: AGAviator (#49)
Only Building 7 had unfought fires and the massive load of 40 stories above them.
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#57. To: PSUSA (#56)
(Edited)
The Chinese sure know how to build, don't they? It burned a lot hotter and a lot longer than 7 did. It didn't fall.
Conspiracy Theorists bring up the fact that the towers were the first steel high rises to fall from fire in history. The fact is the towers had other firsts that day they never seem to include.
Regular Building Column Design 
WTC Column Design
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#58. To: PSUSA (#1)
Why does anyone believe anything he says? I mean, come on!
#59. To: angK (#58)
CHIMPOUT!
die kill ~~ Me
God is a separatist. That's good enough for me.
#60. To: PSUSA (#59)
I think he's nothing more than a trained primate.
#61. To: AGAviator (#37)
the flight to the moon
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#62. To: Artisan (#61)
(Edited)
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#63. To: AGAviator, Artisan, wudidiz, all (#62)
the flight to the moon so you believe that one too, eh? :-)...because people closer to inelligence agencies & the halls of government than you'd dream of being have come out & said it was an inside job.
#64. To: Original_Intent (#63)
Earth to AGGravator!
Some of them are in the public record.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#65. To: Original_Intent (#63)
The problem with using any "debunker" website is that they have an agenda other than the truth. They will NEVER publish or post anything which damages their debunking case. This is in contrast with most of the 911 Truth sites
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#66. To: AGAviator (#65)
(Edited)
#67. To: Turtle (#66)
I thank God every day my mind is clear enough to not be a conspiracist.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#68. To: AGAviator, Artisan (#62)
Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications.......
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#69. To: AGAviator (#65)
WTC7 - Pull means "pull with cables"...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#70. To: AGAviator (#65)
(Edited)
9/11 Debunked - No Free Fall
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#71. To: Turtle, James Deffenbach (#67)
NO PLANE hit WTC 7 and yet it fell into its own footprint. Just think, on September 11, not one, not two, but three steel-framed skyscrapers all decided to just give up and fall down because of fire and none ever had before and none has since
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#72. To: FormerLurker (#69)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#73. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#68)
Rrrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhhtttttt..... And you just happen to be one of the privileged recipients of their communications.......
#74. To: James Deffenbach, FormerLurker (#72)
How many people have tried to con us with that lame-ass explanation of what they want us to believe Silverstein meant? Some have tried to claim he meant to "pull the firefighters" but that wouldn't have been his call and they had already been out for a good while before that anyway. People who believe the government's stupid theory will believe just about anything (except the truth).
"There's a sucker born every minute, and a man to take him every five." ~ P.T. Barnum
#75. To: AGAviator (#57)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: James Deffenbach (#72)
How many people have tried to con us with that lame-ass explanation of what they want us to believe Silverstein meant?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: FormerLurker (#69)
WTC7 - Pull means "pull with cables"... LOL!!!
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#78. To: FormerLurker (#76)
"Pulling it with cables" is a new one on me, and certainly one of the most ludicrous and ridiculous explanations
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#79. To: Original_Intent (#73)
Like most Kool-Aid Drinkers he is data averse. His mind is made up now don't confuse him with the facts.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#80. To: Original_Intent (#73)
It conflicts with their world view of Government Worship, and/or they have swallowed the PsyOps/PR hook, line, and sinker.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#81. To: AGAviator (#78)
You're so easily amused. So tell me how "pull" means "pull with exlosives."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: FormerLurker (#75)
My diagram Your photo
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#83. To: FormerLurker (#81)
I'm not saying it was or wasn't meant to imply "pull with explosives".
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#84. To: AGAviator (#82)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#85. To: AGAviator (#83)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#86. To: AGAviator (#77)
#87. To: AGAviator (#82)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#88. To: AGAviator (#82)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#89. To: FormerLurker (#84)
(Edited)
Your diagram is missing the columns and implies the floors were somehow floating and had no support.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#90. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#83)
I'm not saying it was or wasn't meant to imply "pull with explosives".
#91. To: Original_Intent (#90)
So, "pull the trigger" means to take the bullets out of the gun?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#92. To: AGAviator (#91)
Hmmmm. Once again, "pull" means "move towards me" and not "blow up" to a coherent English speaker.
#93. To: AGAviator (#89)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#94. To: FormerLurker (#88)
The actual bottom of the tower during construction;
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#95. To: Turtle, buckeroo (#92)
You know how it is. Pull means push, lies mean truth, war means peace.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#96. To: AGAviator (#83)
#97. To: FormerLurker (#93)
Those buildings were NOT some flimsy Lego structure, they withstood high winds for decades, AND one of them had a severe office fire years earlier which lasted for HOURS, yet had no issues with structural integrity.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#98. To: AGAviator (#94)
There is additional exterior scaffolding, and crane framework, around the center core under construction.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#99. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#96)
Metaphors must be new to your planet.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#100. To: FormerLurker (#98)
(Edited)
Oh, then where are the elevator shafts?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#101. To: AGAviator (#99)
But thanks for playing.
#102. To: AGAviator (#97)
These factors combined to contribute billions of joules of energy that had to be dissipated somewhere, somehow.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#103. To: Flintlock (#101)
Are you saying that the government's account of 911 is the truth?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#104. To: AGAviator (#103)
the most truthful account of 911 comes from Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 which I posted above
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: AGAviator (#103)
As far as the forensic analyses of specific factors, done by professional engineers, building industry experts, law enforcement, security and accounting industry researchers, the facts are largely settled decisively.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: FormerLurker (#104)
Bin Laden died in December of 2001.
(1) Make a TV interview upbraiding Bush for lying to the American people,
And not even his followers call him a holy man or a prophet.
(2) Tell the American people the US military industrial complex is not acting in their best interests,
(3) Condemn the American relationship with Israel and cite that as the main reason for the 911 attacks, and
(4) Explicitly express his expectation and hope that ongoing American warfare against the Islamic world would eventually bankrupt the United States the same way Afghanistan bankrupted the Soviet Uniton.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#107. To: FormerLurker (#105)
Since it is those very people who are questioning the official story
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#108. To: AGAviator (#103)
As far as people and motives, the most truthful account of 911 comes from Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 which I posted above, as well as several other statements OBL made then about wanting to bankrupt America through never-ending guerilla warfare, which is quickly coming to fruition.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#109. To: AGAviator (#107)
Show papers written by any of them backed by evidence and not internet k00klather hot air. Also show where they give their speeches and lectures.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#110. To: AGAviator (#106)
(Edited)
And then in October 2004 he returned back from the dead to
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: AGAviator (#107)
Bull flocking shit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: FormerLurker (#102)
You stated 500 knots, which equates to 575 mph. The NIST report states 443 mph for WTC 2, and 546 mph for WTC1.
All energy values are quoted as averages of each aircraft impact and each tower collapse and are expressed in Gigajoules = 10*9 J
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#113. To: AGAviator (#112)
Energy Transfer in the WTC Collapse
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#114. To: FormerLurker (#111)
8794 other supporters including A&E students have signed the petition demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation.
The petition is open to everyone.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#115. To: AGAviator (#103)
#116. To: FormerLurker (#113)
that link talks about the COLLAPSE energy,
The twin towers of the World Trade Center, by comparison, were struck by Boeing 767 airliners traveling over twice as fast and weighing nearly 15 times as much as a B-25. The energy of impact for the two planes ranged from 2 billion ft-lb (2.6 billion Joules) to 3 billion ft-lb (4.1 billion Joules), some 60 to 100 times greater than that absorbed by the Empire State Building.
since it does not account for the energy released by the exploding jet fuel, which greatly exceeded the energy released by the much smaller B-25 fuel supply as well. The greater kinetic energy allowed the 767 aircraft to penetrate much further into the twin towers than the B-25 was able to do at the Empire State Building.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#117. To: Turtle (#0)
the only thing the world received from Hitler was millions of lost lives and the genocide of an entire race of people.
#118. To: AGAviator (#112)
(Edited)
The above numbers are are correct. However given that kinetic energy from crashes depends on velocity squared, the energy rekleased from the crashes was still billions of joules: "Gigajoules"
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#119. To: Flintlock (#115)
It was a simple question yet you're afraid to answer it with a yes or no.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#120. To: FormerLurker (#118)
(Edited)
And that's with the HIGHEST values for weight and speed, where the actual weight was less.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#121. To: AGAviator (#114)
So a bunch of un-degreed kiddies without any real world credentials or expertise demanding
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#122. To: FormerLurker (#104)
the most truthful account of 911 comes from Osama Bin Laden in October 2004 which I posted above
#123. To: AGAviator (#120)
Already answered above, and you aren't including the energy from the jet fuel.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#124. To: AGAviator (#119)
The only place a "government account of 911" exists is in your addled brain.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#125. To: FormerLurker (#121)
So you ignore the 1222 DEGREED
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#126. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#121)
So a bunch of un-degreed kiddies without any real world credentials or expertise demanding
#127. To: AGAviator (#116)
(Edited)
The twin towers of the World Trade Center, by comparison, were struck by Boeing 767 airliners traveling over twice as fast and weighing nearly 15 times as much as a B-25. The energy of impact for the two planes ranged from 2 billion ft-lb (2.6 billion Joules) to 3 billion ft-lb (4.1 billion Joules), some 60 to 100 times greater than that absorbed by the Empire State Building.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#128. To: AGAviator (#125)
Oh goodie, they have degrees.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#129. To: FormerLurker (#124)
YOU are reciting the "government account of 9/11" here
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#130. To: AGAviator (#97)
And that massiive distribution of energy reverberated throughout the buildings and started shaking things loose, causing eventual collapses.
#131. To: Original_Intent (#126)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#132. To: AGAviator (#129)
Projection and arm waving.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#133. To: AGAviator (#119)
instead of armwaving k00kblather about the gubmint conspiracies.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#134. To: FormerLurker (#127)
That is an outright lie, as can be easily seen by anyone with an understanding of high school physics and the ability to look up specs from Boing.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#135. To: FormerLurker (#132)
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#136. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#125)
So you ignore the 1222 DEGREED
Oh goodie, they have degrees.
Where's their report? With facts, interviews, tables, and conclusions.
And what does asking for an independent investigation have to do with saying something is totally false, hmm? Which they do not say at all.
Is their report going to show up in some "Send $800 to Dubai to Get Published" journal?
#137. To: AGAviator (#135)
I have posted and linked from one source after another.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#138. To: FormerLurker (#131)
When it's obvious the person is ignoring actual evidence that is provided, comes up with false figures and fabricated "facts", and continuously asks for "proof" which has already been provided, you know you're not talking with someone who is here to discuss something rationally.
#139. To: AGAviator (#134)
So show the calculations, windbag.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#140. To: RickyJ (#130)
The buildings were designed to withstand jet planes hitting them.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#141. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#139)
So show the calculations, windbag.
#142. To: FormerLurker (#139)
Hey genius, look at post 118,
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#143. To: FormerLurker (#123)
The maximum takeoff weight INCLUDES the weight of the fuel there genius.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#144. To: Original_Intent (#141)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#145. To: AGAviator (#143)
Moron, when fuel burns it releases energy totally separate from its weight.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#146. To: AGAviator (#142)
Already answered #116. Try to keep up. I know it's difficult.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#147. To: Original_Intent (#122)
(Edited)
Lessee - my memory is hazy did Osama Ben Forgotten die before the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp or after the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp?
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#148. To: FormerLurker (#145)
In terms of IMPACT ENERGY, which YOU are trying to present in values
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#149. To: AGAviator (#142)
(Edited)
Already answered #116. Try to keep up. I know it's difficult.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#150. To: AGAviator (#148)
I never used impact energy. All energy must be considered. No cherry picking.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#151. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, RicyJ, wudidiz, TwentyTwelve, all (#140)
The buildings were designed to withstand jet planes hitting them.
The buildings were not designed to have impacts at full throttle, loaded with fuel for a trip across the country, shearing off of spray on fire protection, and impact speed great enough to cause penetration and severing of critical internal support columns.
All aircraft within city boundaries are expected to fly below 250 Knots. No exceptions, even if explicitly authorized. The jets were traveling hundreds of MPH over that.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.
The cruise speed of a Boeing 767 is 530 mph = 777 ft/s.
The speed of impact of UA Flight 175 has been estimated to be 590 mph = 865 ft/s.
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (689)2/32.174
= 2.914 billion ft lbs force (3,950,950 Kilojoules).
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (865)2/32.174
= 4.593 billion ft lbs force (6,227,270 Kilojoules).
#152. To: AGAviator (#148)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#153. To: AGAviator, all (#147)
Lessee - my memory is hazy did Osama Ben Forgotten die before the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp or after the phony "Gas the Dog" video PsyOp?
Who was telling the entire United States, on national TV, speaking in Arabic, in October 2004, that the military industrial complex was running America, that America was attacked not because of Muslims hating freedom but because of American support of Israel, and that ultimately America would become bankrupted fighting Middle East wars just as Russia got bankrupted in Afghanistan?
Who exactly was on the TV at that time criticizing just about every conceivable action taken by the USG in its WOT and pursuit of OBL, idjit?
Your mother?
#154. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, AGAviator, James Deffenbach (#151)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#155. To: Original_Intent (#151)
In the early 1970's the World Trade Center's chief structural engineer, Leslie Robertson, calculated the effect of the impact of a Boeing 707 with the World Trade Center towers. His results were reported in the New York Times where it was claimed that Robertson's study proved the towers would withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 moving at 600 miles an hour. Little did he know that decades later two aircraft, almost identical to the Boeing 707, would impact the towers.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#156. To: FormerLurker (#152)
You imply that the planes exerted GIGAJOULES
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#157. To: Original_Intent (#151)
(Edited)
The speed of impact of AA Flight 11 has been estimated to be 470 mph = 689 ft/s.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#158. To: AGAviator (#156)
Since a gigajoule is a billion joules, correct and already demonstrated.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#159. To: FormerLurker (#157)
#160. To: Original_Intent (#153)
Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
Hard to tell because the video was so bad but the actor did not bear a very close resemblance to the real Osama Ben Forgotten. (Who by the way is Jewish - his mother was the Jewish Daughter.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#161. To: AGAviator (#155)
#162. To: FormerLurker (#158)
FASTEST velocity resulted in 443 MILLION JOULES, as I easily presented in post 118.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#163. To: Original_Intent (#161)
You have yet to provide a credible mechanism that shows how an airplane impact accompanied by low temperature fires collapsed a steel framed structure in a linear descent, a mere one hour after the impact, almost exactly into its own footprint.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#164. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent (#163)
The facts that aircraft traveling at maximum speeds with substantial loads of fuel crashed into the WTC towers, set off fires, sheared off fire protection, and destroyed load bearing supports are completely undeniable.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#165. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#151)
(Edited)
The speed of impact of UA Flight 175 has been estimated to be 590 mph = 865 ft/s.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#166. To: AGAviator (#162)
For the 3rd time you are ignoring the energy from the burning jet fuel
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#167. To: FormerLurker (#111)
Try this on for size Einstein...
Somebody claiming he doesn't know WTF is going on does not corroborate your claims of "official government" theories being false.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#168. To: AGAviator (#167)
Somebody claiming he doesn't know WTF is going on does not corroborate your claims of "official government" theories being false.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#169. To: FormerLurker (#166)
The burning fuel did not add to the IMPACT energy. It simply raised the TEMPERATURE of the structure
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#170. To: FormerLurker (#168)
Provide the link, and cite the person's name. I don't see it anywhere at the link I posted.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#171. To: wudidiz (#164)
(Edited)
Fact is, steel doesn't need fire protection and the load bearing supports were not destroyed by fire.
"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks (One Love)
There is one question I'd really love to ask (One Heart)
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?"
#172. To: AGAviator (#170)
You posted it, you should research it. It's in there.
Written by Darcy Wearing and Richard Gage, AIA Thursday, 24 June 2010 18:55 
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#173. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#166)
For the 3rd time you are ignoring the energy from the burning jet fuel
#174. To: FormerLurker (#172)
#175. To: AGAviator (#169)
(Edited)
And unevenly heated load bearing trusses and columns, causing extensive unbalanced torques and loads needing to be redistributed through an already seriously damaged framework.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#176. To: Original_Intent (#174)
Interesting how in one of the photos it shows them placing an angled cutter charge. Hmmmmmmmm? Now where have we seen a steel girder cut off like that before?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#177. To: Original_Intent (#173)
As well even NIST now admits that most of the fuel was burned up in the first ten minutes. Remember the big fireball? That was the fuel load of one of the planes exploding - outside the building.
#178. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#173)
As well even NIST now admits that most of the fuel was burned up in the first ten minutes. Remember the big fireball? That was the fuel load of one of the planes exploding - outside the building.
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER?The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) report into collapse of the WTC towers, estimates that about 3,500 gallons of jet fuel burnt within each of the towers. Imagine that this entire quantity of jet fuel was injected into just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat. With these ideal assumptions we calculate the maximum temperature that this one floor could have reached.
"The Boeing 767 is capable of carrying up to 23,980 gallons of fuel and it is estimated that, at the time of impact, each aircraft had approximately 10,000 gallons of unused fuel on board (compiled from Government sources)."
Quote from the FEMA report into the collapse of WTC's One and Two (Chapter Two).
Since the aircraft were only flying from Boston to Los Angeles, they would have been nowhere near fully fueled on takeoff (the aircraft have a maximum range of 7,600 miles). They would have carried just enough fuel for the trip together with some safety factor. Remember, that carrying excess fuel means higher fuel bills and less paying passengers. The aircraft would have also burnt some fuel between Boston and New York.
"If one assumes that approximately 3,000 gallons of fuel were consumed in the initial fireballs, then the remainder either escaped the impact floors in the manners described above or was consumed by the fire on the impact floors. If half flowed away, then 3,500 gallons remained on the impact floors to be consumed in the fires that followed."
Quote from the FEMA report into the collapse of WTC's One and Two (Chapter Two).
What we propose to do, is pretend that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with the perfect quantity of oxygen, that no hot gases left this floor and that no heat escaped this floor by conduction. With these ideal assumptions (none of which were meet in reality) we will calculate the maximum temperature that this one floor could have reached. Of course, on that day, the real temperature rise of any floor due to the burning jet fuel, would have been considerably lower than the rise that we calculate, but this estimate will enable us to demonstrate that the "official" explanation is a lie.
Note that a gallon of jet fuel weighs about 3.1 kilograms, hence 3,500 gallons weighs 3,500 x 3.1 = 10,850 kgs.
Jet fuel is a colorless, combustible, straight run petroleum distillate liquid. Its principal uses are as an ingredient in lamp oils, charcoal starter fluids, jet engine fuels and insecticides.
It is also know as, fuel oil #1, kerosene, range oil, coal oil and aviation fuel.
It is comprised of hydrocarbons with a carbon range of C9 - C17. The hydrocarbons are mainly alkanes CnH2n+2, with n ranging from 9 to 17.
It has a flash point within the range 42° C - 72° C (110° F - 162° F).
And an ignition temperature of 210° C (410° F).
Depending on the supply of oxygen, jet fuel burns by one of three chemical reactions:
(1) CnH2n+2 + (3n+1)/2 O2 => n CO2 + (n + 1) H2O
(2) CnH2n+2 + (2n+1)/2 O2 => n CO + (n + 1) H2O
(3) CnH2n+2 + (n+1)/2 O2 => n C + (n + 1) H2O
Reaction (1) occurs when jet fuel is well mixed with air before being burnt, as for example, in jet engines.
Reactions (2) and (3) occur when a pool of jet fuel burns. When reaction (3) occurs the carbon formed shows up as soot in the flame. This makes the smoke very dark.
In the aircraft crashes at the World Trade Center, the impact (with the aircraft going from 500 or 600 mph to zero) would have throughly mixed the fuel that entered the building with the limited amount of air available within. In fact, it is likely that all the fuel was turned into a flammable mist. However, for sake of argument we will assume that 3,500 gallons of the jet fuel did in fact form a pool fire. This means that it burnt according to reactions (2) and (3). Also note that the flammable mist would have burnt according to reactions (2) and (3), as the quantity of oxygen within the building was quite limited.
Since we do not know the exact quantities of oxygen available to the fire, we will assume that the combustion was perfectly efficient, that is, that the entire quantity of jet fuel burnt via reaction (1), even though we know that this was not so. This generous assumption will give a temperature that we know will be higher than the actual temperature of the fire attributable to the jet fuel.
We need to know that the (net) calorific value of jet fuel when burnt via reaction (1) is 42-44 MJ/kg. The calorific value of a fuel is the amount of energy released when the fuel is burnt. We will use the higher value of 44 MJ/kg as this will lead to a higher maximum temperature than the lower value of 42 (and we wish to continue being outrageously generous in our assumptions).
For a cleaner presentation and simpler calculations we will also assume that our hydrocarbons are of the form CnH2n. The dropping of the 2 hydrogen atoms does not make much difference to the final result and the interested reader can easily recalculate the figures for a slightly more accurate result. So we are now assuming the equation:
(4) CnH2n + 3n/2 O2 => n CO2 + n H2O
However, this model, does not take into account that the reaction is proceeding in air, which is only partly oxygen.
Dry air is 79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen (by volume). Normal air has a moisture content from 0 to 4%. We will include the water vapor and the other minor atmospheric gases with the nitrogen.
So the ratio of the main atmospheric gases, oxygen and nitrogen, is 1 : 3.76. In molar terms:
Because oxygen comes mixed with nitrogen, we have to include it in the equations. Even though it does not react, it is "along for the ride" and will absorb heat, affecting the overall heat balance. Thus we need to use the equation:
(5) CnH2n + 3n/2(O2 + 3.76 N2) => n CO2 + n H2O + 5.64n N2
From this equation we see that the molar ratio of CnH2n to that of the products is: CnH2n : CO2 : H2O : N2 = 1 : n : n : 5.64n moles = 14n : 44n : 18n : 28 x 5.64n kgs = 1 : 3.14286 : 1.28571 : 11.28 kgs = 31,000 : 97,429 : 39,857 : 349,680 kgs
In the conversion of moles to kilograms we have assumed the atomic weights of hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen and oxygen are 1, 12, 14 and 16 respectively.
Now each of the towers contained 96,000 (short) tons of steel. That is an average of 96,000/117 = 820 tons per floor. Lets suppose that the bottom floors contained roughly twice the amount of steel of the upper floors (since the lower floors had to carry more weight). So we estimate that the lower floors contained about 1,100 tons of steel and the upper floors about 550 tons = 550 x 907.2 m6; 500,000 kgs. We will assume that the floors hit by the aircraft contained the lower estimate of 500,000 kgs of steel. This generously underestimates the quantity of steel in these floors, and once again leads to a higher estimate of the maximum temperature.
Each story had a floor slab and a ceiling slab. These slabs were 207 feet wide, 207 feet deep and 4 (in parts 5) inches thick and were constructed from lightweight concrete. So each slab contained 207 x 207 x 1/3 = 14,283 cubic feet of concrete. Now a cubic foot of lightweight concrete weighs about 50kg, hence each slab weighed 714,150 m6; 700,000 kgs. Together, the floor and ceiling slabs weighed some 1,400,000 kgs.
So, now we take all the ingredients and estimate a maximum temperature to which they could have been heated by 3,500 gallons of jet fuel. We will call this maximum temperature T. Since the calorific value of jet fuel is 44 MJ/kg. We know that 3,500 gallons = 31,000 kgs of jet fuel
This is the total quantity of energy available to heat the ingredients to the temperature T. But what is the temperature T? To find out, we first have to calculate the amount of energy absorbed by each of the ingredients.
That is, we need to calculate the energy needed to raise: 39,857 kilograms of water vapor to the temperature T° C, 97,429 kilograms of carbon dioxide to the temperature T° C, 349,680 kilograms of nitrogen to the temperature T° C, 500,000 kilograms of steel to the temperature T° C, 1,400,000 kilograms of concrete to the temperature T° C.
To calculate the energy needed to heat the above quantities, we need their specific heats. The specific heat of a substance is the amount of energy needed to raise one kilogram of the substance by one degree centigrade. Substance Specific Heat [J/kg*C] Nitrogen 1,038 Water Vapor 1,690 Carbon Dioxide 845 Lightweight Concrete 800 Steel 450
Substituting these values into the above, we obtain: 39,857 x 1,690 x (T - 25) Joules are needed to heat the water vapor from 25° to T° C, 97,429 x 845 x (T - 25) Joules are needed to heat the carbon dioxide from 25° to T° C, 349,680 x 1,038 x (T - 25) Joules are needed to heat the nitrogen from 25° to T° C, 500,000 x 450 x (T - 25) Joules are needed to heat the steel from 25° to T° C, 1,400,000 x 800 x (T - 25) Joules are needed to heat the concrete from 25° to T° C.
The assumption that the specific heats are constant over the temperature range 25° - T° C, is a good approximation if T turns out to be relatively small (as it does). For larger values of T this assumption once again leads to a higher maximum temperature (as the specific heat for these substances increases with temperature). We have assumed the initial temperature of the surroundings to be 25° C. The quantity, (T - 25)° C, is the temperature rise.
So the amount of energy needed to raise one floor to the temperature T° C is
= (39,857 x 1,690 + 97,429 x 845 + 349,680 x 1,038 + 500,000 x 450 + 1,400,000 x 800) x (T - 25)
= (67,358,330 + 82,327,505 + 362,967,840 + 225,000,000 + 1,120,000,000) x (T - 25) Joules
= 1,857,653,675 x (T - 25) Joules.
Since the amount of energy available to heat this floor is 477,400,000,000 Joules, we have that
1,857,653,675 x (T - 25) = 477,400,000,000
1,857,653,675 x T - 46,441,341,875 = 477,400,000,000
Therefore T = (477,400,000,000 + 46,441,341,875)/1,857,653,675 = 282° C (540° F).
So, the jet fuel could (at the very most) have only added T - 25 = 282 - 25 = 257° C (495° F) to the temperature of the typical office fire that developed.
Remember, this figure is a huge over-estimate, as (among other things) it assumes that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb the heat, whereas in reality, the jet fuel fire was all over in one or two minutes, and the energy not absorbed by the concrete and steel within this brief period (that is, almost all of it) would have been vented to the outside world.
"The time to consume the jet fuel can be reasonably computed. At the upper bound, if one assumes that all 10,000 gallons of fuel were evenly spread across a single building floor, it would form a pool that would be consumed by fire in less than 5 minutes"
Quote from the FEMA report into the collapse of WTC's One and Two (Chapter Two).
Here are statements from three eye-witnesses that provide evidence that the heating due to the jet fuel was indeed minimal.
Donovan Cowan was in an open elevator at the 78th floor sky-lobby (one of the impact floors of the South Tower) when the aircraft hit. He has been quoted as saying: "We went into the elevator. As soon as I hit the button, that's when there was a big boom. We both got knocked down. I remember feeling this intense heat. The doors were still open. The heat lasted for maybe 15 to 20 seconds I guess. Then it stopped."
Stanley Praimnath was on the 81st floor of the South Tower: "The plane impacts. I try to get up and then I realize that I'm covered up to my shoulder in debris. And when I'm digging through under all this rubble, I can see the bottom wing starting to burn, and that wing is wedged 20 feet in my office doorway."
Ling Young was in her 78th floor office: "Only in my area were people alive, and the people alive were from my office. I figured that out later because I sat around in there for 10 or 15 minutes. That's how I got so burned."
Neither Stanley Praimnath nor Donovan Cowan nor Ling Young were cooked by the jet fuel fire. All three survived.
Summarizing:
We have assumed that the entire 3,500 gallons of jet fuel was confined to just one floor of the World Trade Center, that the jet fuel burnt with perfect efficency, that no hot gases left this floor, that no heat escaped this floor by conduction and that the steel and concrete had an unlimited amount of time to absorb all the heat.
Then it is impossible that the jet fuel, by itself, raised the temperature of this floor more than 257° C (495° F).
Now this temperature is nowhere near high enough to even begin explaining the World Trade Center Tower collapse.
It is not even close to the first critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F) where steel loses about half its strength and it is nowhere near the quotes of 1500° C that we constantly read about in our lying media.
"In the mid-1990s British Steel and the Building Research Establishment performed a series of six experiments at Cardington to investigate the behavior of steel frame buildings. These experiments were conducted in a simulated, eight-story building. Secondary steel beams were not protected. Despite the temperature of the steel beams reaching 800-900° C (1,500-1,700° F) in three of the tests (well above the traditionally assumed critical temperature of 600° C (1,100° F), no collapse was observed in any of the six experiments."
Quote from the FEMA report (Appendix A).
Recalling that the North Tower suffered no major structural damage from the intense office fire of February 23, 1975, we can conclude that the ensuing office fires of September 11, 2001, also did little extra damage to the towers.
Conclusion:
The jet fuel fires played almost no role in the collapse of the World Trade Center.
So, once again, you have been lied to by the media, are you surprised?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#179. To: FormerLurker (#176)
#180. To: FormerLurker (#176)
(Edited)
#181. To: FormerLurker (#178)
#182. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent (#177)
As even your co-poster now concedes, several billion joules of all energy combined were released by the jet impacts. And within a couple hours max of this massive enrgy release the buildings collapsed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#183. To: FormerLurker (#178)
#184. To: AGAviator (#180)
http://www.debunking911.com/cut.jpg
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#185. To: FormerLurker (#182)
the fact is that energy was dissipated in the first few seconds of the impact, causing some swaying of the building. Besides, we are just talking about AVAILABLE energy, not the TRANSFER of energy to the structure, since the plane itself absorbed some of that energy by being ripped to shreds.
#186. To: AGAviator (#183)
Aircraft must not only have enough fuel for alternate destinations, they must also have enough fuel to make safe landings if one or more engines fail.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#187. To: AGAviator (#119)
The only place a "government account of 911" exists is in your addled brain.
#188. To: AGAviator (#185)
And transfers of enregy from moving ojects to stationary objects make the energy go to the target, not the source
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#189. To: AGAviator (#171)
Fact is, steel doesn't need fire protection and the load bearing supports were not destroyed by fire.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#190. To: FormerLurker (#184)
Oh, you say he's CUTTING the column? I don't see a cutting torch in his hand.
#191. To: wudidiz (#189)
of the ones that are bought and paid for and can't think for themselves.
#192. To: AGAviator (#190)
(Edited)
Pretty lame. He's up there to cut, and that's what the elongated items in the basket are.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: Original_Intent (#126)
It is always amusing, and always predictable, that when you corner a Septic/Disinformationist that they will focus on a minor detail and attempt to inflate it into a Strawman Argument to divert from the point they are unwilling or unable to address without having their argument filed in "File 13". Next he'll try "Peak Oil" or "Glowbull Warming".
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#194. To: Original_Intent (#136)
9. Play Dumb.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#195. To: wudidiz (#154)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#196. To: James Deffenbach (#194)
9. Play Dumb.
#197. To: Original_Intent (#196)
Cold, very cold. Just what I need while I set here sweating and drinking Lemonade.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#198. To: James Deffenbach (#197)
#199. To: Original_Intent (#198)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#200. To: James Deffenbach (#199)
#201. To: AGAviator (#119)
Cite specific reports, dealing with specific subjects,blah, blah, blah
#202. To: AGAviator, wudidiz (#191)
The standard CT last stand response. Anybody who doesn't drink the CT Kool-Aid is a big gubmint sellout.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#203. To: James Deffenbach, Original_Intent (#197)
had to put Aggravator on my clown filter. It made me feel like this
#204. To: FormerLurker (#192)
(Edited)
Neither you nor I can claim the above cut was made by a worker with a torch, or thermite
#205. To: AGAviator (#203)
#206. To: AGAviator, James Deffenbach, FormerLurker, all (#203)
#207. To: AGAviator, all, *9-11* (#204)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#208. To: AGAviator (#204)
I've used both oxygen cutting torches and themite.
#209. To: Original_Intent (#206)
(Edited)
When all fails, when you've long since lost the debate,
#210. To: Flintlock (#208)
To do what, light your government issue crack pipe?
#211. To: AGAviator (#210)
It would get your head out of your own crack.
#212. To: Original_Intent (#206)
(Edited)
When all fails, when you've long since lost the debate
Real-World Tests Cut Through Steel, Shatter Thermite "Evidence"
#213. To: Flintlock (#211)
(Edited)
While you have your head up the government's crack
#214. To: AGAviator, all, *9-11* (#213)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#215. To: wudidiz (#214)
It really doesn't matter if thermite was used or not
What do you think of this picture?
#216. To: AGAviator (#215)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#217. To: FormerLurker (#188)
#218. To: wudidiz (#216)
What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this?
What sort of force would create this?
#219. To: AGAviator (#218)
What do you think would cause these columns to disintegrate like this?
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#220. To: wudidiz (#219)
They're steel columns. They disintegrated. Why?
You actually think gravity will melt concrete and steel together like that?
#221. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, Original_Intent, ALL (#220)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#222. To: AGAviator (#220)
They're steel columns. They disintegrated. Why?
You actually think gravity will melt concrete and steel together like that?
I see things that have been crushed under many tons of pressure, not melted. However now that you mention it, there were smouldering underground fires and hot spots lasting for weeks afterwards of the collapses. Those are effects of the collapses, not causes.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#223. To: AGAviator (#213)
Tell me how burning thermite - which produces molten burning iron flowing freely - makes straight up and down vertical or angled cuts, one liner crackboy.
#224. To: wudidiz (#222)
(Edited)
None of those things you mentioned would cause steel columns to disintegrate.
It looks melted, not crushed.
How on earth could the buildings collapsing cause "underground fires and hot spots" for weeks?
Oxidation of iron by air is not the only EXOTHERMIC reaction of iron (= structural steel which is about 98 % Fe, 1 % Mn, 0.2 % C, 0.2 % Si.....). There is at least one additional reaction of iron with the capability of keeping the rubble pile hot and cooking!
#225. To: Flintlock (#223)
You useless lying gov stooge, wipe that Barney Frank jiz off your face, it's gotten in your eyes.
#226. To: FormerLurker (#221)
(Edited)
Wow, you are here 24/7 aren't you. I wonder why that is...
(1) Go talk to the USG about what it is, he can't say,
So you all would rather do your groupthink on your mental island, fine. Just don't expect anyone to rescue you.
(2) Alleges his mystery substance is both an explosive and an accelerant at the same time - a truly idiotic claim,
(3) Doesn't know whether there were 10 or 100 tons of it,
(4) Can't specify the methods and means by which it was detonated, and
(5) Can't explain why so many (unknown) tons of this high tech so-called cutting edge stuff failed to explode and was just lying around the sites waiting to be picked up by the truckload - without any safety precautions needed by the cleanup workers I might add.
#227. To: AGAviator (#226)
There is a USreal connection, however it takes a twisted path through Washington, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and OBL Afghan training camps
#228. To: AGAviator (#226)
It never fails that when it gets right down to it, the k00ks feel more comfortable discussing their wacked out theories and eventually trashing and spewing obscenities at anyone who disputes them, than they are looking at the real issues which underly US policies.
#229. To: Turtle (#227)
(Edited)
However, I strongly suspect the Mossad knew the attacks were going to happen and didn't warn the U.S. government. They were tracking the plotters in the U.S.
#230. To: buckeroo (#228)
Have you been repeatedly called a "psy-op" yet
#231. To: AGAviator (#229)
At some times when the behavior of the people tracking Atta is pointed out to Israeli supporters, they claim a warning was passed on to the USG but it was misrouted and ignored. That doesn't explain how the "Israeli moving company" knew exactly what was going to happen and where.
#232. To: Turtle, buckeroo (#231)
What better way for the government to herd the sheeple than to give them preposterous conspiracy theories to divert them from real, serious problems?
#233. To: AGAviator (#230)
Nah, they went straight to their homoerotic projections.
#234. To: buckeroo (#233)
Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#235. To: AGAviator, buckeroo (#232)
My sentiments exactly
#236. To: farmfriend, groundresonance (#234)
#237. To: buckeroo (#236)
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#238. To: farmfriend (#237)
#239. To: farmfriend, buckeroo, turtle (#234)
(Edited)
Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.
#240. To: AGAviator (#239)
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#241. To: buckeroo (#238)
Explain, please.
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#242. To: farmfriend (#240)
false comparison
#243. To: buckeroo (#233)
Still, I miss the days when other posters challenged these guys. Eventually, they simply left as it is tiring to discuss even common sense.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#244. To: James Deffenbach (#243)
(Edited)
The government's insane conspiracy theory, the wackiest one of all.
#245. To: James Deffenbach (#243)
You're always on about some bs like "Peak Oil" or "global warming."
#246. To: buckeroo (#245)
I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ...
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#247. To: James Deffenbach, farmfriend, AGAviator (#246)
How can they be "world class issues" when they aren't issues at all to most people?
#248. To: buckeroo (#247)
Amazing response.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#249. To: James Deffenbach (#248)
Yeah, I thought it was good too.
#250. To: buckeroo (#249)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#251. To: AGAviator (#242)
K00klogic evading a simple question challenging a cherished belief.
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#252. To: AGAviator (#225)
Wassa matter, boytoy
#253. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#246)
I have found out that world class issues such as the BULLSHIT (that you call it) is reason enough not to pursue other discussions ...
#254. To: James Deffenbach (#250)
Oh, that is something I have been doing a long time (thinking).
I know that for folks who believe Al Gore fairy tales about global warming and oil industry fables about how we're going to be completely out of oil in the next fifteen minutes, thinking is not something natural or easy.
#255. To: Original_Intent (#253)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#256. To: buckeroo (#254)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#257. To: Original_Intent (#253)
Well, at least he has job even if it is "catapulting the propaganda". A man's gotta eat and Sterno™ ain't that cheap any more.
#258. To: James Deffenbach (#256)
#259. To: James Deffenbach (#255)
(Edited)
Sure, we all have to get our grocery money some way. But don't you hate it when people are pissin' on your leg and telling you that it's raining? That is what the global warmists and Peak Oilers remind me of.
#260. To: buckeroo (#257)
#261. To: Original_Intent (#260)
#262. To: buckeroo (#261)
#263. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#262)
What other little men do you frequently see?
#264. To: buckeroo (#263)
#265. To: Samuel Gray, buckeroo (#264)
All this blathering and thrashing about, when you could be using your vaunted computer skills to hack into yukon or Mad Dog's photobucket accounts, finding court records, etc, to post for our amusement.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#266. To: Samuel Gray (#264)
#267. To: buckeroo (#266)
#268. To: buckeroo (#266)
Facebook champions, such as Bad_Eye.
#269. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, AGAviator (#263)
I see AGAviator kicked your ass
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#270. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, Buckmonster Fullofit (#269)
I see AGAviator kicked your ass
#271. To: Samuel Gray (#267)
#272. To: tom007 (#268)
BE has a big facebook following??????
#273. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#270)
kind of like the little men he keeps seeing in his toilet bowl
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#274. To: wudidiz, AGAviator (#269)
That didn't happen.
#275. To: buckeroo (#274)
(Edited)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#276. To: wudidiz (#273)
kind of like the little men he keeps seeing in his toilet bowl
#277. To: buckeroo (#258)
Again, I have never advocated an article, group or even a blurb from or about Al Gore's ideas. So why do you bring him up? Because, GW is a fact?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#278. To: Original_Intent (#259)
Along with those who allegedly "beeeeeeeeeelieeeeeve" the "Official Conspiracy Theory" of "19ArabsWhoHateUsCuzWe'reFree" armed with Box Cutters could hijack 4 airliners, of which none of them were competent to fly, then leisurely fly for 2 hours unintercepted in the most heavily monitored airspace on the planet, and then manage to fly those aircraft through aerobatic maneuvers that would challenge a Master Pilot and crash them into major buildings for Allah*.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#279. To: buckeroo (#263)
Well, for starters on this thread I see AGAviator kicked your ass.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#280. To: buckeroo, turtle (#259)
(Edited)
then manage to fly those aircraft through aerobatic maneuvers that would challenge a Master Pilot and crash them into major buildings for Allah*.
Folks, the hole in the Pentagon is big enough for all of the bulky parts of a 757 to crash through-- about 15 feet on the second floor and possibly 80 feet on the first floor. There is a photo of metal wrapped around a column and other photos of aircraft debris within the building. Why should they fake this?
#281. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turtle (#279)
Well, for starters on this thread I see AGAviator kicked your ass.
#282. To: wudidiz (#275)
Tell a friend if the little dudes in the toilet bowl start talkin to you.
#283. To: James Deffenbach (#277)
his [Al Gore] idiotic theory
#284. To: buckeroo (#283)
You are not well read.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#285. To: AGAviator (#280)
AMA Flight 77
#286. To: James Deffenbach (#284)
"Your not well read." -- Bad_Eye
#287. To: buckeroo (#285)
One of my best friends, Barbara Olson was on that flight. Some of these lamers think that we forget about friends and loved ones.
#288. To: AGAviator (#287)
(Edited)
al] questions the reasons for this type of madness as a mere "conspiracy." What happened (in a nutshell) is US foreign policy created what is popularly termed as "backdraft."
#289. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, X-15, wudidiz, James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turdle (#281)
#290. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#289)
Your photo of a cutting torch shows it cutting a straight line in a steel block. It does not show it cutting the beam in the photo above.
Also note that it leaves very little slag as opposed to the cut bea
#291. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#289)
(Edited)
Your photo of a cutting torch shows it cutting a straight line in a steel block. It does not show it cutting the beam in the photo above.
Also note that it leaves very little slag as opposed to the cut beam where we can see that a very significant amount of slag at the point the beam was severed.
Your photo of a burning pool of, presumably, thermite is also misleading for a couple of reasons:
A. Thermite for cutting operations is produced as a cord which you can then wrap around that which you want to cut.
B. Nano-thermite has some distinctly different characteristics:
It burns hotter than standard thermite.
And since it is a micro-fine powder in can be placed in a film, a medium and literally painted on, or into an extruded high energy/high temperature cutting cord.
Additionally because its performance, unlike conventional explosives, can be tuned it can perform as an explosive as well as a high energy heat source.
More simply - it releases much more energy per unit of time than standard thermite.
Wrong. Your photograph of one of the alleged hijackers proves nothing as we both know it was taken at a different airport than any of the flights of 911 originated from. Oh, and please show us where his name is on any of the Passenger Manifests. Of course we both know it is not there and so you cannot produce that which does not exist.
Two flight attendants called the American Airlines reservation desk during the hijacking.
#292. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent (#291)
Both cuts are straight with little dribblings of slag on their edges.
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#293. To: AGAviator (#280)
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#294. To: farmfriend (#292)
None are so blind s those who will not see.
#295. To: IRTorqued, buckeroo, turtle, PSUSA, RickyJ (#293)
(Edited)
riddle me this oh keeper of all official conspiracy theory knowledge; why was the initial report that a truck bomb had gone off at the pentagon
#296. To: AGAviator, X-15, farmfriend, wudidiz, James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turdle (#291)
All your alleged information is fromo one thoroughly discredited source: Niels Harritt.
#297. To: AGAviator (#295)
The government is your friend, they never lie, believe me not your gut instincts
#298. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator, X-15, wudidiz, James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turdle (#296)
I drew on several papers none of which were written by Niels Haritt although I might also reasonably point out the science is not refuted by ad hominem attacks. If the journal that published it is questionable that does not prove the data false it proves the journal questionable.
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#299. To: Flintlock (#297)
WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE!
James Madison, Letter to James Robertson, April 20, 1831
#300. To: AGAviator, IRTorqued, RickyJ (#295)
None of them was ever seen by their families after the aircraft took off. Many of them got funeral remains during and after the investigation.
#301. To: Original_Intent (#300)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#302. To: farmfriend (#298)
I drew on several papers none of which were written by Niels Haritt although I might also reasonably point out the science is not refuted by ad hominem attacks. If the journal that published it is questionable that does not prove the data false it proves the journal questionable.
#303. To: Original_Intent (#300)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#304. To: wudidiz (#301)
#305. To: wudidiz (#303)
#306. To: Original_Intent, christine (#304)
#303
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#307. To: farmfriend (#299)
He is not the only one either.
#308. To: wudidiz (#306)
#303
#309. To: Original_Intent (#308)
"We are Spirits in the Material World"...
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#310. To: wudidiz (#309)
#311. To: Original_Intent (#310)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#312. To: AGAviator (#280)
Flight 77 did clip a number of light poles on its way in. The engines and the airplane didn't dig big holes into the ground because the wingfs and fuselage were partially shielded by ground effect. When they did hit things, the hits were shearing impacts which glanced off the objects and allowed the plane to continue moving forward.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#313. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle. (#296) (Edited)
Wrong again Buzzard Breath. As now seems par for the course you attempt to twist other people's positions into a strawman and then attack the strawman. Did I refer to Niels Haritt in my post? Well? Yoo hoo, fuckwit. Open Chemical Physics Journal, Volume 2: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe pp.7-31 (25) Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007 Niels H. Harrit just happens to be the lead person on your only so called "peer reviewed publication" (a lie, it's a actually a pay to print publication) that's ever been published anywhere. As such he is the leader of the k00kcrowd pushing the thermite angle. So Harritt's own research motives, and processes, and his qualifications in the field are very open to questioning. He started the whole $hitpile of crappy "research" that everybody else is running around parroting. But instead of acknowledging that Harrit is the ring leader of the particular CT talking point, you say "Boo hoo, I never quoted Harritt you big meanie," and start your usual word salad alleging how poor little you is being victimized by false arguments which are actually right on point arguments you can't refute and therefore wish to dismiss with your usual "poor me, poor CT's" shtick. Your next "source," "Combustion characteristics of A1 nanoparticles and nanocomposite A1+MoO3 thermites" happens to say on its lead page Submitted to the Graduate Faculty of Texas Tech University in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY So now somebody writing a glorified term paper, who doesn't even have PhD, trying to get a PhD, is your backup for debunked Kook in Chief Niels Harrit. Heeeeeeyyyyy. Wait a minute. I thought all the PhD's who say that Harritt is full of $hit are eebil gubmint sell outs and false scientists. So why are you quoting a glorified term paper of somebody trying to join their ranks? LOLOL. Finally, the Harrit debunking link I posted, which you never bothered to watch in your haste to claim victim status, explicitly states Harrit's research is not only defective in its hasty conculsions about how sulfur and iron are present be found, it is equally defective in not explaining the absensce of "thermate ingredients" aluminum oxide 41% and barium nitrate 29%. Cited at 2:10 in the "Niels Harrit Debunked" video above. There is zero evidence Harrit supplies, of either of these byproducts being present, while actually they should be found in major quantities. If there are between 10 and 100 tons of unignited thermite, where are the tens of tons of ingredients aluminum oxide and barium nitrate, hmm? So not only does Harrit fail to explain the normal and natural presence of substances he alleges to be thermite components, he fails to explain why other components and by products are not found or reported in any quantities at all. QED. pwned.
All your alleged information is from one thoroughly discredited source: Niels Harritt.
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Although a lot of the work they have done is for military research and is classified, but they could address the basic question as to the presence of aluminothermic Super Thermite (which is the other name used for it) but they have not and very likely will not, because to do so and maintain the NIST stonewall they would have to lie, and lies would be provably false.
#314. To: Flintlock (#297) (Edited)
WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#315. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#300) (Edited)
Tell your lies to the families of those who died. Do you think if that actually happened the families would not find out about it, and would not say something about it? Name a single family that's alleging their loved ones did not die in airplane crashes.
Just a wild stab. You don't think a group of sociopathic criminals who set up a PsyOp killing nearly 3,000 people to launch wars killing millions of people would actually whack the passengers as part of the PsyOp do you?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#316. To: farmfriend, turtle, buckeroo (#299) (Edited)
WARNING: AGAviator is a paid government agent who is here to spread disinformation. BEWARE! Wouldn't surprise me. He is not the only one either. Braindead cattle like you, claiming to lead but actually serving to divert your "sheeple" from more productive pursuits - as Noam Chomsky pointed out - are the classic "False Front Op." Facts "9/11 Skeptics" Don't Want You to See
False theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign policies addressed, for example US support of Israel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#317. To: AGAviator (#295)
you're full of crap.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#318. To: AGAviator (#315)
tell your lies to the families who want a real investigation.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#319. To: AGAviator (#316)
Exactly! Jewish Bolshevists murdered 20 million Christian Russians. What happened in Russia is almost exactly what is happening in the U.S. today, except there won't be that kind of genocide because all of us have guns and modern communications. Instead, we're dealing with a Third World invasion of people of IQs of 85 to 89, and they want to destroy us. Yet people are wasting their time and labor with hallucinations about thousands of people engaging in impossible conspiracies about remote-controlled airplanes and explosives in the WTC. WTF is wrong with these people, to believe such dangerous nonsense? Yet they'll never give it up. They'll spend their entire lives spinning their wheels,
False theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign policies addressed, for example US support of Israel.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
#320. To: Turtle (#319) (Edited)
I ran across a quote from Nietzsche the other day, saying if an issue gets sufficiently distorted, it doesn't even need to be answered. If I find it again I'll put it in my sig line.
Instead, we're dealing with a Third World invasion of people of IQs of 85 to 89, and they want to destroy us. Yet people are wasting their time and labor with hallucinations about thousands of people engaging in impossible conspiracies about remote-controlled airplanes and explosives in the WTC.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#321. To: IRTorqued (#318) (Edited)
Investigate this, ko00k Tell your lies to the families who want a real investigation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#322. To: AGAviator (#315)
You have made the BIG_TIME; congratulations on being nominated a "PSYOP." Soon, you will find more and more discredited posters ignoring you. You might go down in the HALL_OF_FAME, right after myself.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#323. To: AGAviator, All (#321)
That's actually true. In terms of warfare, the 9-11 attacks are insignificant compared to say, the Battle of Stalingrad, in which there were more casualties than all of America's war combined. Yet I am amazed at the number of Americans simply obsessed with trying to prove the US government was behind 9-11, while in the meantime this country is being destroyed by Third World immigration and the politically-connected superrich exporting the middle class to China.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
#324. To: AGAviator (#295)
What happened to them if Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon as stated. I believe that these were the first accidents of jet planes full of highly- refined kerosene crashing into buildings, hence, the unusual patterns of destruction found at the crash sites. Thanks for the pings everybody and this concludes my appearance in this thread :-)
None of them was ever seen by their families after the aircraft took off. Many of them got funeral remains during and after the investigation.
__________________________________________________________
Obama is the miscegenated bastard of a white communist whore. True story.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#325. To: AGAviator (#315)
Do you think if that actually happened the families would not find out about it, and would not say something about it? If you weren't such a jackass and had ANY clue as to the actual events and the aftermath, you'l know that it WAS the victim's families that have pushed for a 9/11 investigation, and who are LEADING the "truth" movement. 9/11 Press For Truth - Victims' Families Tell the Story the Media Won't
Tell your lies to the families of those who died.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#326. To: Turtle (#323)
So go apologize to the families of the millions of people our nation has killed over it, and tell your pal Obama to bring all the troops home NOW.
That's actually true. In terms of warfare, the 9-11 attacks are insignificant compared to say, the Battle of Stalingrad, in which there were more casualties than all of America's war combined.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#327. To: AGAviator (#321)
Your image shows a tiny piece of thin metal, with NO scorch marks on it whatsover, yet you wish us to believe it came from an aircraft that impacted a brick wall at 500+ mph, and was engulfed in flames. Is this the best proof you have to offer that 19 A-RABS did it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#328. To: FormerLurker (#325)
Ah, so little time, so much "jackassery" and so few clues for agitprop/bs artists.
If you weren't such a jackass and had ANY clue
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#329. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, X-15, wudidiz, James Deffenbach, TwentyTwelve, Flintlock, all (#313)
My goodness. Now you are going from the preposterous to the sublimely idiotic. Ever hear the term Phd.? It's shorthand for DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY and is the highest GRADUATE degree awarded by a college or university. It is the same regardless of the field. I know this might come as a shock to you but it is the standard nomenclature for a degree of that level in ANY field of learning or research whether Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, Molecular Biology, etc., .... To acquire one one must propose, research, and then defend a Dissertation in front of a faculty committee much more rigorous than ANY "peer reviewed" journal. As for the rest of your drivel it is unworthy of comment other than to simply state again that the data is what the data is not as you would wish to misrepresent in your Strawman Arguments. As for your rather quaint slangy malapropism: Got Xbox? (Do you put your Skateboard next to it?)
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#330. To: FormerLurker, Turtle, buckeroo (#325)
9/11 Press For Truth - Victims' Families Tell the Story the Media Won't Give me the name of one family out of 3,000+ who says that a family member reported to have died in a 9/11 airplane crash, did not actually die in that airplane crash. Then tell me how and where that family says the family member died. QED. pwned.
WAS the victim's families that have pushed for a 9/11 investigation, and who are LEADING the "truth" movement.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#331. To: Original_Intent (#329) (Edited)
Ever heard that every single PhD at Steven Jones' University, Brigham Young, who has publicly spoken about Steven Jones' k00ky claims, says his claims are unfounded and unsupported by valid research? That's into the dozens or even hundreds who think Jones is FOS. Not a good time to cite PhD's as being experts in their fields. But I already know, you'll tailor your story to fit whatever situation you think an altered version will help you out in. So where are the "peer reviewed" publications of said PhD's supporting internet 911 CT's, maroon? Other than a solitary $800 "pay to get published" blurb out of a Dhubai hole- in-the-wall?
Ever hear the term Phd.? It's shorthand for DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY and is the highest GRADUATE degree awarded by a college or university
For a degree of that level in ANY field of learning or research whether Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, Molecular Biology, etc., .... To acquire one one must propose, research, and then defend a Dissertation in front of a faculty committee much more rigorous than ANY "peer reviewed" journal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#332. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#329)
The guy is a flunky. He's a drooling government shill, disinfo agent, plant, snitch, rat, and overall fed rodent. I'm sure in real life he's a groveling little twerp who soils himself every time his boss walks by. Don't take what he says with a grain of salt, use the whole shaker.
AGAviator
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#333. To: AGAviator, formerlurker (#330)
That's a good point, AG. Recently, the US Supreme Court denied a class action suit against Saudia Arabia by the same families. Of course, Kagan (a BS artist par excellent) argued for the outcome. PHILADELPHIA, June 29, 2009 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The following is a statement by Jerry S. Goldman of Anderson Kill & Olick, P.C., counsel to the family of John P. O'Neill, Sr.: We are disappointed by today's decision by the United States Supreme Court to refuse to hear the case brought by the family of the late American hero, John P. O'Neill, on behalf of the victims of 9/11 against the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and others. Federal Insurance Company, et al., v. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, et al., No. 08-640 (6/29/09). We are saddened to see that the Court declined to apply its traditional standards for accepting a case for review. We assume that it relied upon the arguments propounded by the Executive branch and the defendants to deny the 9/11 victims their day in Court against certain sovereign nations, such as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, that we allege materially support terrorists. We note, however, that there are still cases pending in the lower courts against other sovereign nations unaffected by the Supreme Court's ruling. We note, too, that there are still cases pending against other defendants seeking to hold them accountable for their actions in assisting Al Qaeda. At the Supreme Court, the Justice Department argued that the decision of the Second Circuit was only of limited impact on the other defendants in the case. We can only assume that the Justice Department will be consistent with the arguments that they propounded before the Supreme Court. Similarly, we are looking forward to their filings as to the scope of sovereign immunity. We are optimistic that the lower courts will allow the rest of the lawsuit to proceed, as we believe that it is obvious that a United States court is the appropriate forum for hearing claims brought for harms suffered by individuals and businesses on American soil, whether against the terrorists who hijacked planes to wreak death and mass destruction, or against those, who provided the material support enabling terrorists to wreak death and destruction. We look forward to finally proceeding with discovery and allowing justice to prevail. About Anderson Kill & Olick, P.C. Anderson Kill & Olick, P.C. practices law in the areas of Insurance Recovery, Anti-Counterfeiting, Bankruptcy, Commercial Litigation, Corporate & Securities, Employment & Labor Law, Real Estate & Construction, Tax, and Trusts & Estates. The firm's senior attorneys maintain national and international practices from offices in New York City, Newark, NJ, Philadelphia, PA, Washington, D.C., and Ventura, CA. For more information, please visit www.andersonkill.com GENERAL CONTACT: Jerry S. Goldman/267-216-2795 MEDIA Contact: Andrew Sprung/646-792-3739 SOURCE Anderson Kill & Olick, P.C. You can find Internet links everywhere on this recent dismissal decision.
Give me the name of one family out of 3,000+ who says that a family member reported to have died in a 9/11 airplane crash, did not actually die in that airplane crash.
June 29, 2009, 2:23 p.m. EST Statement by Counsel for the Family of John P. O'Neill in Response to U.S. Supreme Court's Refusal to Hear 9/11 Victims' Case Against Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Others
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#334. To: buckeroo (#333)
Considering the fact we've sent trillions of dollars of our wealth to Saudia Arabia for their oil instead of drilling for our own, it's fitting we should get some back, especially since the Saudis used that money to fund the Wahabis that attacked us on 9-11.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
#335. To: Flintlock (#332)
Dishonesty from Steven Jones
The guy is a flunky. He's a drooling government shill, disinfo agent, plant, snitch, rat, and overall fed rodent. I'm sure in real life he's a groveling little twerp who soils himself every time his boss walks by.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#336. To: AGAviator (#330)
Who here is claiming that family members didn't die from a plane crash, or from the towers collapsing? You?
Give me the name of one family out of 3,000+ who says that a family member reported to have died in a 9/11 airplane crash, did not actually die in that airplane crash.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#337. To: AGAviator (#330)
Epic fail, then walk away claiming victory. What a loser.
pwned.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#338. To: AGAviator (#331)
So who are YOUR experts, Jim Rob, Goldi-Lox, Byteshredder, and yukon?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#339. To: AGAviator, Flintlock, Original_Intent (#335)
Your YouTube video "expert" is a moron. First off, the squibs appear BEFORE the building collapses, thus they are not caused by air pressure from the collapse. Secondly, the commerical demolitions are more than likely using commercial grade explosives, rather than a military grade explosive such as C4. That is why their squibs "hang" in the air, since they create more smoke than something like C4. Have you ever seen a hand grenade explode? They make NO smoke, just one HUGE bang. They are filled with C4.
Dishonesty from Steven Jones
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#340. To: Flintlock (#332)
Kind of like getting rid of slippery slimy slugs?
Don't take what he says with a grain of salt, use the whole shaker.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#341. To: AGAviator (#335)
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#342. To: Original_Intent (#340)
Too bad we can't spray him over the net Kind of like getting rid of slippery slimy slugs?
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#343. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, all (#331)
Yet another strawman argument. I listened to an interview at the time of publication and Dr. Jones was perfectly up front about it, but the researchers felt they had no choice, which of course your depunkers won't mention, as no controlled mainstream journal would even look at the evidence. Not that the evidence does not exist but simply that the journals, published by people who rely on government money, were not interested in a truth that might affect their personal "Rice Bowl" i.e., government grant money. No, hadn't heard that - I was aware of the 50 or so faculty of BYU who signed a letter supporting him. No one has disproven him. He's been called names and villified by government shills like yourself, but he has never been disproven. Those who have spoken against him said they do not support his hypothesis however, they have never said that they have disproved his hypothesis. And a RubeToob video is not a scientific paper, and using strawmen is not a logically sound argument.
Other than a solitary $800 "pay to get published" blurb out of a Dhubai hole- in-the-wall?
Ever heard that every single PhD at Steven Jones' University, Brigham Young,
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#344. To: Flintlock (#342)
Too bad we can't spray him over the net Or put him in a jar and watch him scurry about.
Kind of like getting rid of slippery slimy slugs?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#345. To: Original_Intent, Flintlock, AGAviator, FormerLurker, Turtle, christine, buckeroo, all (#344)
9/11 was an inside job. Anyone who argues otherwise to defend the perpetrators should be ashamed of themselves.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#346. To: wudidiz (#345)
I wager it was the chemtrail gases or the FEMA plots and plans or mayhaps crop circles from outer space controlling the CFR and the UN and the Congress and the courts and even the Oral orifice beyond the Rothschild and the Bilderberger. I think you have it right, we are doomed. The powers that be have destroyed us................... the issue could NEVER be a pile of shit voters that can't read or write.
9/11 was an inside job.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#347. To: buckeroo (#346)
No. It was explosives that brought the twin towers and building 7 down and they blamed it on airplanes hijacked by an imaginary terrorist group.
I wager it was the chemtrail gases or the...
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#348. To: wudidiz (#347)
How were they imaginary since the US State Department permitted all of them into the USA without papers other than piles of BS?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#349. To: wudidiz (#348)
sounds like bucky is jealous because no one is calling him shill.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#350. To: AGAviator (#321)
if the bungs you lick didn't have something to hide they'd release all the various surveillance video they confiscated. mushy brained tards like you believe the planted crap.
computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.
#351. To: IRTorqued (#349)
There's no sense in even responding to him.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#352. To: wudidiz (#345)
bump that
9/11 was an inside job
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#353. To: FormerLurker (#339)
Show me any C4 fragments or scorch marks. And since the fake "squibs" occured at the same time the floors pancaked, the CT "Squibs" aren't real and the CT's are full of it.
Have you ever seen a hand grenade explode? They make NO smoke, just one HUGE bang. They are filled with C4.
First off, the squibs appear BEFORE the building collapses, thus they are not caused by air pressure from the collapse.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#354. To: FormerLurker (#338)
I post my links. Are you so deranged you've hallucinated those people onto this site?
So who are YOUR experts, Jim Rob, Goldi-Lox, Byteshredder, and yukon?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#355. To: AGAviator (#354)
Working overtime? ROTFLMAO at you stooge
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#356. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle (#343)
Other than a solitary $800 "pay to get published" blurb out of a Dhubai hole- in-the-wall? Yet another strawman argument. You're the one just finished lionizing PhD's and quoting a glorified term paper of a PhD candidate - not even a real PhD. Which paper, FYI because I'm sure you never bothered to actually read it, says zero about nano-thermite being used in WTC buildings. So how many PhD's do you kooks have in your corner worldwide, and how many say you're a bunch of blithering idiots who neither understand basic scientific procedures and methods, or can competently gather facts, data, and follow suitable protocols to convert the information into credible and verifiable conclusions...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#357. To: AGAviator (#356)
WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)
#358. To: Flintlock (#357) (Edited)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#359. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle (#345) (Edited)
As I have repeatedly stated9/11 was an inside job. Anyone who argues otherwise to defend the perpetrators should be ashamed of themselves.
(1) The road to the 911 attacks goes through Washington and Tel Aviv, but also has stops in Cairo, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and OBL training camps in Afghanistan, and
(2) As Noam Chomsky states, amateur internet 911 whodunits divert energy and efforts away from more substantive and fruitful pursuits, such as changing policies and mindsets, and marginalize people wanting substantive changes into a perceived class of single- issue lobotomized k00ks constantly parroting their groupthink to each other.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
#360. To: AGAviator (#359)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#361. To: AGAviator (#356)
One earns a Phd. by doing original Phd. level work. Uh, like "duh" duuuuuuude. That papers were cited because they back up my points on the characteristics of Super Thermite which you were trying to weasel away from with your standard banal disinfo tactics. As for the rest of your incoherent hissy fit the data is what the data is.
You're the one just finished lionizing PhD's and quoting a glorified term paper of a PhD candidate - not even a real PhD.
FYI because I'm sure you never bothered to actually read it, says zero about nano-thermite being used in WTC buildings.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#362. To: Original_Intent (#361)
Your glorified term paper has nothing to do with the suitability of this substance to be used to perpetrate the largest building failures in American history. Your continuous introduction of word dumps, attempting to obfuscate your failure to support your arguments, with specific and observable FACTS, is duly noted.
That papers were cited because they back up my points on the characteristics of Super Thermite which you were trying to weasel away from with your standard banal disinfo tactics.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest