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Title: Why I Don't Have Any Use for Truthers
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Published: Jul 9, 2010
Author: Turtle
Post Date: 2010-07-09 11:35:19 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 27368
Comments: 879
Poster Comment: This woman had sulfuric acid thrown in her face by guess who? Someone engaging in Typical Negro Behavior. They do this out of envy. "I can't get this woman, so nobody can have her." He got life in prison. These are the real problems, not hallucinations abour remote-controlled airplanes and bombs in towers.
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#142. To: buckeroo (#133)
It takes a lot of ignorance to believe that Aggravator has "won" anything on this thread. He showed himself to be a pro-government stooge who swallows their lies if that is what you think of as a "winner."
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Where has AGAviator taken a "pro-government" perspective?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And I should allow all that minutiae to clutter my brain....why? You must hang out in some shit neighborhoods.
Anyone who believes that stupid government conspiracy theory has a "pro-government" perspective. That is the wackiest theory of all. Ten thousand of the best clowns Ringing and Brothers has, has had, or will ever have, couldn't make up a story so stupid and lame. Yet nuts like Aggravator fell for it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Met her in a lawyer's offfice in a downtown highrise in St. Louis.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
Beyond suspicion and doubt (which has been presented) where is there any direct proof and about government intervention concerning 9-11 other than after the devastating events? To pull off a mammoth tragedy like this would have taken hundreds if not thousands of personnel. And since 9-11, where are any of the whistle-blowers? To support a thesis based on reality requires not mere suspicion of a given phenomena. It requires supporting facts and a tragedy this large should have produced eye-witnesses by now. The events of 9-11 were pulled off by terrorists here in this country designed and planned in the ME, principally from Saudi Arabia. It was a carefully co-ordinated attack, timed to occur simultaneously at several destinations with a minimum of resources maximizing the devastation. The issues were about America's continuing support of and about Israel particularly as the US has aided and (indeed) orchestrated despair with the Palestinians. It was greatly influenced by the fall of the USSR's attempt to control Afghanistan while the US aided the "freedom fighters" there and then later vacated further assistance in the 1990s. There were other attempts in NYC in the 1990s that clearly show the contempt of the Taliban and the al-Qaida, as well. Now, I think the US government unintentionally received what is popularly referred to as "blowback; that is, the US government (particularly through the US state department and the CIA) created the sentiment of resentment based upon bungling and blundering our own official policies and procedures. But there was a strategic focus beyond anything mentioned which was the oil pipelines that were the REAL issues although never discussed from a formal US point of view. Those pipelines were worth far more than any war.... they were worth the sanctity of the US people to continue their unrelenting gluttony of sucking 25% of the world's oil supplies. So, it was really a sustaining mission and continues to this very day AND they is why you see politicians consistently flip-flop about their perspective of getting out. If America were truly attempting to modify it's methods of energy supplies (say adding nuclear power plants as China is performing) we could be out of the ME in no time at all. But, we don't do it. The politicians are controlled by powerful lobbyists that ensure ample rewards back to the politicians to continue sustaining America's oil gluttony. There is a threshold of pain that the American people require before we adopt alternative energy methods .... when that level of pain hits, it shall take years to develop and ensure ample distribution methods and through that period of time Americans are going to suffer BIG_TIME. But, we lack a need to modify our dependence on oil just yet. We have BP and deepwater technologies to thank for that.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yes, and no one has ever said a word. They haven't got drunk, or confessed on their deathbed, or found Jesus, or been overcome with guilt or gone on Oprah, or best of all, come clean because they're afraid another conspiracist is going to kill them to sure they won't talk. Nope, every one of them, all thousands of them, are keeping their lips zipped, showing complete loyalty to their cause. It's all nonsense, because the only way two people can keep a secret is if one of them is dead.
St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."
There were millions of "eye witnesses" who saw the Salomon Brothers Building fall into its own footprint in about as close to free fall speed as you could imagine. For those who might not know that is in reference to WTC 7, the building which fell even though no plane hit it. And no other steel-framed skyscraper ever before or since has fallen due to fire damage, though some have burned much longer and hotter. One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century". The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed. The First Interstate Bank Fire The First Interstate Bank Building is a 62-story skyscraper in Los Angeles that suffered the worst high-rise fire in the city's history. From the late evening of May 4, 1988 through the early morning of the next day, 64 fire companies battled the blaze, which lasted for 3 1/2 hours. The fire caused extensive window breakage, which complicated firefighting efforts. Large flames jutted out of the building during the blaze. Firefighting efforts resulted in massive water damage to floors below the fire, and the fire gutted offices from the 12th to the 16th floor, and caused extensive smoke damage to floors above. The fire caused an estimated $200 million in direct property loss. A report by Iklim Ltd. describes the structural damage from the fire: In spite of the total burnout of four and a half floors, there was no damage to the main structural members and only minor damage to one secondary beam and a small number of floor pans. The 1 New York Plaza Fire 1 New York Plaza is a 50-story office tower less than a mile from the World Trade Center site. It suffered a severe fire and explosion on August 5, 1970. The fire started around 6 PM, and burned for more than 6 hours. Caracas Tower Fire The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters. Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. The Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel Fire The most recent example of a spectacular skyscraper fire was the burning of the Hotel Mandarin Oriental starting on February 9, 2009. The nearly completed 520-foot-tall skyscraper in Beijing caught fire around 8:00 pm, was engulfed within 20 minutes, and burned for at least 3 hours until midnight. Despite the fact that the fire extended across all of the floors for a period of time and burned out of control for hours, no large portion of the structure collapsed.... And then there was the obvious stand down by the Air Force that day. Despite normal intercept times of between 10 and 20 minutes for errant domestic flights, the airliners commandeered on 9/11/01 roamed the skies for over an hour without interference. And this in one of the busiest, if not the busiest, air traffic corridor in the world? Give me a break! 9/11 was either a MIHOP or a LIHOP. The government either made it happen on purpose or let it happen on purpose. No other explanation explains all the anomalies and the facts that are known. edited to remove footnote numbers since no footnotes are included here.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Are you being paid to report this nonsense ? As far as being paid, again. No one pays good money to send a message to losers. The only places you're important are your own minds. As I've already said, you've had (1) Almost 9 years, (2) Thousands of websites, and (3) Billions of words, to make your case. Your results: Almost zero, with 6 times more people believing in UFO abductions, or Elvis sightings, than buy into the "USG controlled demolition" theories. You haven't persuaded anybody, and only serve the role of a freak circus sideshow from the existential questions the country needs to face.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
Although the [WTC] buildings were designed to withstand a collision with a 200,000- pound Boeing 707, that theory obviously was never tested before. Nor did the designer claim to take into account that thousands of gallons of jet fuel might someday be spread throughout the floors of a crash area and down both elevator and other vertical shafts, according to Moore. He was also one of the few experts who was not surprised that the buildings collapsed. “I was more surprised the [WTC] buildings didn’t collapse immediately upon impact,” Moore says. “The buildings were designed so that the exterior 39-inch on-center, 14-inch square steel box columns produced a building resembling a steel tube. The center steel core carried gravity loads only. One of the videos shows the plane going in one side and coming out the other, thus compromising a major portion of the structural integrity of the building . We were very fortunate that the buildings didn’t fall horizontally and strike surrounding buildings.” “The structure was only designed to carry the weight of the contents, snow load, wind load, etc.,” Carter adds. “Once you add the momentum of the upper floors crashing down, the lower floors would collapse, as well.” Moore also remains unconvinced of the presence of explosives. “An analogy,” he says, “is the classic cheerleader-type pyramid of bodies: If the three people on top suddenly fall all at the same time, everybody on the bottom is probably going to fall as well and the pyramid crumbles. Also, when buildings are imploded, they place explosives on the lowest floor(s) and at least one more upper floor to start the momentum. If you just shot the first floor, the rest of the building might remain supported by the second floor and not completely fall.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
Did you write this? If not, I want a hot link to the comment. Now, let me say this: WTC-7 was brought down because it was falling anyway. It was tremendously weakened from the earlier concussion from and about the twin towers.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
It takes a lot of ignorance to believe that Aggravator has "won" anything on this thread. He showed himself to be a pro-government stooge who swallows their lies if that is what you think of as a "winner." Hey Six Percenters! Did ya happen to know that over 6 times as many Americans (50%) believe that UFO aliens have abducted humans, than believe it was "very likely" that the WTC Towers were brought down by "secretly planted explosives (6%)?" Of course you didn't!!!!!!! That suuure is a select group of people you're included in. BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! Poll: U.S. Hiding Knowledge of [UFO] Aliens The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. • 77% "unlikely" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
Yes, I did write it and it's true. It was falling? Curious that, since none ever had before and none have since. Better get off that Sterno, buck. That $#it is gonna kill you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yes, Six Percenter, not only was it slowly leaning over and getting ready to fall, a NYFD fireman was interviewed at the time and said, on camera, QED pwned.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
Yes. It was planned anyway and was largely vacated other than a few management offices.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Good post @155 by yourself.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Apparently they were all planned since no other steel-framed skyscraper has ever fallen due to fire either before or since. And they were designed to withstand the impact of the planes so that is a non starter.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I have to simply GIVE_UP on this discussion. You remind me of a washing machine going through a spin-cycle.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Thanks. I'm really getting tired of the Six Percenters throwing their ad hominem stink bombs whenever they get defeated on argument. Here's video of another class of Six Percenter - the kind who denies a moon landing took place - getting clocked by 72-year old astronaut Buzz Aldrin after the k00k walked up and pestered Aldrin, demanding he swear on a Bible he walked on the moon, then calling him a coward, a liar and a thief.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
If you have a few moments and can tolerate a few spelling errors, take a peek at my post @147. It outlines my comprehensive opinion.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Anyone who believes that stupid $#it the government put out might as well give up. Sane people don't believe that 19 ragheads sitting around in a cave somewhere in Bum-ef-I-stan outsmarted the best air defenses in the world, had incompetent "pilots" fly commercial jets into two big landmark buildings and the heart of the nation's military complex, all because they "hate our freedom." Complete and total bs!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Where are the government whistle blowers? Don't you believe that there are a few patriots working in government that would have come forth and denied the BS, assuming there was some? No ..... you got it wrong. No one in our government would create the havoc that created this sort of devastation against innocent people. And, even if there were some with a shadow of evil intent, they would have eventually brought forth the 1) planning, logistics, execution, leadership and chain of command to initiate the order. The punk GWBush was reading about goats to a kindergarten class in Florida that same time and day. He didn't have a fucking clue.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
OK, you win. Now I believe in UFOs. (NOT !)
Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces
That must be some extra strength Sterno you are imbibing. The government wouldn't "create devastation against innocent people." I call bs on that too! Have you forgotten Waco and Ruby Ridge? Ever hear of Gordon Kahl? And that is just a few of the Americans they have murdered. Not even counting the innocent foreigners who have been killed for no reason or for reasons (or excuses) proven to be bs.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And btw, I never have said Bush planned anything. Bush couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. But that doesn't mean that the government, the government which he represented at the time (the chief figurehead if you will), can't plan and execute schemes to kill many people if it furthers their schemes. Even many thousands of people. As long as it is not them or some of their family they don't give a $#it about America or Americans.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Bungling ATF government officials ..... BTW, these events were planned and timed during by the "read my lips no new taxes" liar in chief GHBush. These events take years in planning and logistical operations by government. The ATF even built a mock up of the Branch Davidian Church months in advance to prepare for the massacre.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I suppose it's rank heresy, stepping on the third rail, etc, to say this, but after almost 170 replies, it may as well be said as not: I don't really give a rat's ass who brought the WTCs down. Not sure I ever have, past maybe six months to a year afterward. It's a fait accompli and all this mental masturbation amounts to a complete waste of time.
And with that I think you disproved your own point. Said point being, "No one in our government would create the havoc that created this sort of devastation against innocent people." A few hundred, few thousand, it's all the same to them as long as it is just some serfs and peons.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yes, after nearly 9 years, not a single conspirator has undergone a deathbed conversion. Not one. Yes, OBL says as much in his October 2004 Complete Transcript And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs (when they pointed out that) for example, al Qaeda spent $500,000 on the event, while America in the incident and its aftermath lost- according to the lowest estimate-more than 500 billion dollars, meaning that every dollar of al-Qa'ida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah besides the loss of a huge number of jobs. As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record, astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars. And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the Mujahedin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq which is evidence of the success of the bleed- until-bankruptcy plan A little known fact about the Afghan mujahideen in the 1980's is that most of the Afghans who were actually fighting the Red Army and their communist surrogates didn't want any foreigners from Egypt or Saudi Arabia. The idea of sending people from abroad to fight with the Afghans originated in Cairo and Saudi Arabia. These countries wanted to get rid of their dissidents opposed to Israel, and hopefully get the dissidents killed in a jihad abroad. Unfortunately, few of the dissidents took the bait, and once in Pakistan, started politicking in Peshawar instead of going to the fronts. OBL was the one exception to that, and his courage and willingness to fight up front and spend his own money to build fortifications, is the reason he is still revered there to this day. And why it is just about impossible for anyone to turn him in no matter what money is offered. The biggest cause of blowback was the false US assumption that the foreign jihadi would take the bait and let themselves be used as cannon fodder in the Afghan jihad. The US played the foreign jihadi for suckers, and instead the jihadis saw through the smokescreen and out smarted the US using American money to build their own organizations, infrastructure, and connections. Which continue to this day. If America were truly attempting to modify it's methods of energy supplies (say adding nuclear power plants as China is performing) we could be out of the ME in no time at all. But, we don't do it. The politicians are controlled by powerful lobbyists that ensure ample rewards back to the politicians to continue sustaining America's oil gluttony. During the 1980's there was a big focus on conserving oil. Then in the 1990's when it appeared America would be the "world's superpower," we gave ourselves a victory present: Faster highway speeds, less conservation rules, Hummers getting single digit MPG, and general wastefulness of a dwindling natural resource. Meaning, when when a shortage does hit, it's going to be pretty brutal. But, we lack a need to modify our dependence on oil just yet. We have BP and deepwater technologies to thank for that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
I fully respect your opinions for being critical and suspicious of government operations. And, in large part, I am 100% with you as this nation is failing and there is no other precedence in our history. Towards those failures we are experiencing (and genuinely about the quality of life we can expect) all we have are a pile of obnoxious ASSES in top government jobs and leadership. Of course, those same ASSES are heavily influenced by powerful and corrupt political machines that rise up every four years at some sort of convention and discuss, "how free we are" based on their own antics. It sickens me ... as yourself to be lied to time and time again only to see the over-all quality of American life eroded away. But..... you and I are in disagreement about any government in America wantonly carrying out an intentional method of destruction on any innocent civilians or for that matter innocent armed forces ANYWHERE.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Disagree all you want but the facts prove you wrong. It gives me no joy to say that the people who run the government, or front for those who actually do run things, have no conscience and no qualms about killing innocent people. But "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You live in either a story book tale or a Hollywood movie; your opinion(s) is not based on fact but some incredulous need to over-glamorize the true dynamics and facts distorting our way of life.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
250+ 9/11 'Smoking Guns' Found in the Mainstream Media Plans and scenarios aren't indictors of events that actually took place, in many cases because the plans aren't thought out completely enough and also because problems arise during execution, even if the scenarios are attempted. Better proofs of actual events would be "plan vs. actual" follow up reports noting what parts of the plans were carried out, and what parts of the plans needed to be modified during the actual events.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
I love that expression.... it unwittingly ensures the directors have no educational base in modern West schools.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Hate to break it to you but you are the one who lives off somewhere in Never Never Land. I posted facts, facts which you cannot refute. And your child like belief that the government would not do anything to harm innocent people is very naive. Either that or you have had way too much Sterno and are hallucinating.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Hey Six Percenter. Which of Americans who died on 911, especially the passengers on the 4 crashed aircraft, didn't actually die in those airplane crashes, and didn't have their remains returned to their families, after exhaustive research using advanced forensic DNA analysis?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky
About two local tragic (Branch Davidian Church in Waco, Tx and Ruby Ridge/Randy Weaver) FAILED incidents by the ATF cowboys to arrest and contain in 1991/1992 given the go ahead by GHBush? How do these antics make you believe the US government is working with all other local governments that later destroyed the WTC and about 3,000 innocent women and children on 9-11-01? Are you out of your mind?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Hey genius, explain something to me. Why are some of these so-called "9/11 hijackers" still alive and well? If THEY didn't do it, then WHO did?
The only difference is in degree, not in kind. Randy Weaver's wife and son were innocent (actually so was Randy. He was a white separatist, so what? Is that a crime? The only "crime" they had any evidence against him for was one they set up themselves and that's called entrapment). The men, women and children at Waco were innocent too but that didn't stop the government from murdering them. Hard to believe you would take up for scumbag killers.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The issues in and around the time of ATF cowboy antics were in 1991/1992. At that time, there was HUGE popular and political demand concerning firearms .... and the ATF punks did their job with the help of the FBI and the super-secret US ARMY Delta Force. You saw over-zealous ATF punks attempting to increase their bureaucratic budgets within Congress based upon a clown act show for popular review within American circles. And the Brady Act came into being with another ignorant political ASS, William Clinton. But this has nothing to do with wanton government destruction in 2001 based on the 9/11 tragedy. You are quickly becoming a "KOO-KOO for Coca Puffs candidate" if you keep this silly equation up.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Why is the government covering up what happened on 9/11 if it isn't complicit?
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestBTW, you win the thread. Good job, that took a lot of perseverance and tenacity.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#143. To: James Deffenbach, AGAviator (#142)
He showed himself to be a pro-government stooge who swallows their lies
#144. To: Turtle (#141)
#145. To: buckeroo (#143)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#146. To: Samuel Gray (#144)
You must hang out in some shit neighborhoods.
#147. To: James Deffenbach (#145)
#148. To: buckeroo (#147)
To pull off a mammoth tragedy like this would have taken hundreds if not thousands of personnel.
#149. To: buckeroo (#147)
(Edited)
To support a thesis based on reality requires not mere suspicion of a given phenomena. It requires supporting facts and a tragedy this large should have produced eye-witnesses by now.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#150. To: noone222, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#130)
The masses are usually mistaken ... as demonstrated by your post.
#151. To: critter, buckeroo, turtle (#149)
(Edited)
And no other steel-framed skyscraper ever before or since has fallen due to fire damage, though some have burned much longer and hotter.
As an example of the damaging effect of fire on steel, in 1967, the original heavy steel-constructed McCormick Place exhibition hall in Chicago collapsed only 30 minutes after the start of a small electrical fire.”
#152. To: James Deffenbach (#149)
There were millions of "eye witnesses" who saw the Salomon Brothers Building fall into its own footprint in about as close to free fall speed as you could imagine. For those who might not know that is in reference to WTC 7, the building which fell even though no plane hit it. And no other steel-framed skyscraper ever before or since has fallen due to fire damage, though some have burned much longer and hotter.
#153. To: James Deffenbach, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Flintlock, Original_Intent, farmfriend, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#142)
Sixty- four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans,
Half said they've abducted humans, and
37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government. The collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings"
• 10% "somewhat likely"
• 6% "very likely"[13]
#154. To: buckeroo (#152)
Did you write this? If not, I want a hot link to the comment.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#155. To: James Deffenbach, turtle, critter, buckeroo (#154)
(Edited)
Yes, I did write it and it's true. It was falling?
"See the way it's leaning over like that? It's definitely gonna fall. There's no way to stop it...You have to go up in there to put it out..but the structural integrity is not there."
#156. To: James Deffenbach (#154)
It was falling?
#157. To: AGAviator (#155)
#158. To: buckeroo (#156)
Yes. It was planned anyway and was largely vacated other than a few management offices.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#159. To: James Deffenbach (#158)
And they were designed to withstand the impact of the planes so that is a non starter.
#160. To: buckeroo (#157)
(Edited)
Good post @155 by yourself.
#161. To: AGAviator (#160)
#162. To: buckeroo (#159)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#163. To: James Deffenbach (#162)
Anyone who believes that stupid $#it the government put out might as well give up.
#164. To: AGAviator (#150)
#165. To: buckeroo (#163)
No one in our government would create the havoc that created this sort of devastation against innocent people.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#166. To: buckeroo (#163)
The punk GWBush was reading about goats to a kindergarten class in Florida that same time and day. He didn't have a fucking clue.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#167. To: James Deffenbach (#165)
Have you forgotten Waco and Ruby Ridge?
#168. To: Turtle (#0)
#169. To: buckeroo (#167)
These events take years in planning and logistical operations by government. The ATF even built a mock up of the Branch Davidian Church months in advance to prepare for the massacre.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#170. To: buckeroo (#147)
(Edited)
To pull off a mammoth tragedy like this would have taken hundreds if not thousands of personnel. And since 9-11, where are any of the whistle-blowers?
The events of 9-11 were pulled off by terrorists here in this country designed and planned in the ME, principally from Saudi Arabia. It was a carefully co-ordinated attack, timed to occur simultaneously at several destinations with a minimum of resources maximizing the devastation.
And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States even if the intentions differ.
The issues were about America's continuing support of and about Israel particularly as the US has aided and (indeed) orchestrated despair with the Palestinians. It was greatly influenced by the fall of the USSR's attempt to control Afghanistan while the US aided the "freedom fighters" there and then later vacated further assistance in the 1990s.
Now, I think the US government unintentionally received what is popularly referred to as "blowback; that is, the US government (particularly through the US state department and the CIA) created the sentiment of resentment based upon bungling and blundering our own official policies and procedures.
But there was a strategic focus beyond anything mentioned which was the oil pipelines that were the REAL issues although never discussed from a formal US point of view. Those pipelines were worth far more than any war.... they were worth the sanctity of the US people to continue their unrelenting gluttony of sucking 25% of the world's oil supplies. So, it was really a sustaining mission and continues to this very day AND they is why you see politicians consistently flip-flop about their perspective of getting out.
There is a threshold of pain that the American people require before we adopt alternative energy methods .... when that level of pain hits, it shall take years to develop and ensure ample distribution methods and through that period of time Americans are going to suffer BIG_TIME. With 3-6 Americans killed per day in Afghanistan by the "7th century cave dwellers," the supposed "no quagmire" and "the terrorists have elected to receive" zone, and an economy with no new jobs teetering on the brink of collapse, and pressure from the Tel Aviv overlords to attack Iran, I think there is going to be a pretty rapid unraveling before year end.
#171. To: James Deffenbach (#169)
A few hundred, few thousand, it's all the same to them as long as it is just some serfs and peons.
#172. To: buckeroo (#171)
But..... you and I are in disagreement about any government in America wantonly carrying out an intentional method of destruction on any innocent civilians or for that matter innocent armed forces ANYWHERE.
John Adams
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#173. To: James Deffenbach (#172)
Disagree all you want but the facts prove you wrong. It gives me no joy to say that the people who run the government, or front for those who actually do run things, have no conscience and no qualms about killing innocent people.
#174. To: christine (#135)
killtown.911review.org/ 911smokingguns.html
#175. To: AGAviator (#170)
"7th century cave dwellers,"
#176. To: buckeroo (#173)
You live in either a story book tale or a Hollywood movie; your opinion(s) is not based on fact but some incredulous need to over-glamorize the true dynamics and facts distorting our way of life.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#177. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#176)
I posted facts, facts which you cannot refute. And your child like belief that the government would not do anything to harm innocent people is very naive
#178. To: James Deffenbach (#176)
I posted facts, facts which you cannot refute. And your child like belief that the government would not do anything to harm innocent people is very naive.
#179. To: AGAviator, James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#177)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#180. To: buckeroo (#178)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#181. To: James Deffenbach (#180)
The only difference is in degree, not in kind. Randy Weaver's wife and son were innocent (actually so was Randy. He was a white separatist, so what? Is that a crime? The only "crime" they had any evidence against him for was one they set up themselves and that's called entrapment). The men, women and children at Waco were innocent too but that didn't stop the government from murdering them. Hard to believe you would take up for scumbag killers.
#182. To: buckeroo (#181)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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