4um: Why I Don't Have Any Use for Truthers

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Title: Why I Don't Have Any Use for Truthers
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 9, 2010
Author: Turtle
Post Date: 2010-07-09 11:35:19 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 27455
Comments: 879

Poster Comment:

This woman had sulfuric acid thrown in her face by guess who? Someone engaging in Typical Negro Behavior.

They do this out of envy. "I can't get this woman, so nobody can have her."

He got life in prison.

These are the real problems, not hallucinations abour remote-controlled airplanes and bombs in towers. (1 image)

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#512. To: farmfriend (#508)

Maybe they don't want to talk to me?

Your ideas concerning US government involvement concerning 9/11 is welcomed. The other chit-chat is distracting and actually diminishes some awesome work, here.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:28:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#513. To: farmfriend (#511)

I noticed too. You mean on 4 or where you are too?

“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:28:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#514. To: AGAviator (#491)

I already gave you timetable saying the max time between notification and crashes was 8 minutes, not 25, and the fighters were over the Atlantic and unable to get precise vectors to what or where they were supposed to be intercepting due to transponders not transmitting IFF's.

And your timetable is garbage.

Fighters Launched in Response to Flight 77? - In later testimony, military officials will give contradictory explanations for why the Langley F- 16s are scrambled. An early NORAD timeline will indicate the fighters are launched in response to NORAD being notified at 9:24 that Flight 77 has been hijacked (see (9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001] Colonel Alan Scott, the former vice commander of the Continental US NORAD Region (CONR), will suggest the same, telling the 9/11 Commission: 60;At 9:24 the FAA reports a possible hijack of [Flight] 77.70; And at that moment as well is when the Langley F-16s were scrambled out of Langley.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003; 1st Air Force, 8/8/2006] And a timeline provided by senior Defense Department officials to CNN will state, 60;NORAD orders jets scrambled from Langley61; in order to 60;head to intercept61; Flight 77. [CNN, 9/17/2001]
In Response to Flight 93? - However, Major General Larry Arnold, the CONR commander, will give a different explanation. He will tell the 9/11 Commission, 60;we launched the aircraft out of Langley to put them over top of Washington, DC, not in response to American Airline 77, but really to put them in position in case United 93 were to head that way.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]
In Response to Incorrect Report about Flight 11? - In 2004, the 9/11 Commission will dispute both these previous explanations, and conclude that the Langley jets are scrambled in response to an incorrect report that Flight 11 is still airborne and heading toward Washington, DC (see 9:21 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 26-27; 9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 15 pdf file ] Tape recordings of the NEADS operations floor will corroborate this account. [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006] According to the 9/11 Commission, its conclusion is also confirmed by 60;taped conversations at FAA centers; contemporaneous logs compiled at NEADS, Continental Region headquarters, and NORAD; and other records.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 34] Major Nasypany will tell the Commission that the reason the Langley jets are directed toward the Baltimore area is to position them between the reportedly southbound Flight 11 and Washington, as a 60;barrier cap.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27 and 461] John Farmer, senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission, will later suggest that NORAD deliberately misled Congress and the Commission by hiding the fact that the Langley scramble takes place in response to the erroneous report that Flight 11 is still airborne. He will write that the mistaken report 60;appears in more logs, and on more tapes, than any other single event that morning.70; It was the reason for the Langley scramble; it had triggered the Air Threat Conference Call. Yet it had never been disclosed; it was, instead, talked around.61; [Farmer, 2009, pp. 266-267]
Conflicting Times - Early news reports will put the time of the scramble order slightly later than the 9/11 Commission places it, between 9:25 and 60;about 9:27.61; [Washington Post, 9/12/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001; CNN, 9/19/2001] But a NORAD timeline released a week after the attacks will give the same time as the Commission does, of 9:24. [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]

Entity Tags: 9/11 Commission, Kevin Nasypany, Alan Scott, Larry Arnold, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Langley Air Force Base, US Department of Defense, Northeast Air Defense Sector

Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

(9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Langley Jets Take off, but Are Delayed during Launch

sEL('1626004942- 70967','70967')

Captain Craig
Borgstrom. Captain Craig Borgstrom. [Source: US Air Force / Austin Knox]The three F-16 fighter jets ordered to scramble from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001) take off and, radar data will show, are airborne by 9:30 a.m. [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001; Christian Science Monitor, 4/16/2002; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Delayed during Launch - Major Dean Eckmann will recall that, after receiving the scramble order, he and the two other pilots have 60;a pretty quick response time. I believe it was four to five minutes we were airborne from that point.61; [BBC, 9/1/2002] According to the 1st Air Force57;s book about 9/11, the three fighters are 60;given highest priority over all other air traffic at Langley Air Force Base61; as they are launching. [Filson, 2003, pp. 63] But, according to author Lynn Spencer, in spite of this, the jets are delayed. As Eckmann is approaching the runway, he calls the control tower for clearance to take off, but the tower controller tells him, 60;Hold for an air traffic delay.61; Air traffic controllers at the FAA57;s Washington Center 60;have not had time to clear airliners out of the way for the northerly heading. Dozens of aircraft at various altitudes fill the jets57; route.61; After having to wait two minutes, Eckmann complains: 60;We57;re an active air scramble. We need to go now!61; Finally, the tower controller tells him, 60;Roger, Quit flight is cleared for takeoff, 090 for 60,61; meaning the fighters are to fly due east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001).
Taking Off - The three jets launch 15 seconds apart, with Eckmann in front and the two other jets following. [Spencer, 2008, pp. 143-144] Pilot Craig Borgstrom will later recall, 60;[W]e took off, the three of us, and basically the formation we always brief on alert, we57;ll stay in a two- to three-mile trail from the guy in front.61; [Filson, 2003, pp. 63] According to the BBC, the pilots get a signal over their planes57; transponders, indicating an emergency wartime situation. [BBC, 9/1/2002]
Could Reach Washington before Pentagon Attack - F-16s have a maximum speed of 1,500 mph at high altitude, or 915 mph at sea level, so the three fighters could plausibly travel the 130 miles from Langley Air Force Base to Washington in just minutes. [Chant, 1987, pp. 404; Associated Press, 6/16/2000; USA Today, 9/16/2001; Washington Post, 9/16/2001 pdf file ; US Air Force, 10/2007] Major General Larry Arnold, the commanding general of NORAD57;s Continental US Region, will tell the 9/11 Commission, 60;I think if those aircraft had gotten airborne immediately, if we were operating under something other than peacetime rules, where they could have turned immediately toward Washington, DC, and gone into burner, it is physically possible that they could have gotten over Washington61; before 9:37, when the Pentagon is hit. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] Yet according to the 9/11 Commission, the jets are redirected east over the Atlantic Ocean and will be 150 miles from the Pentagon when it is hit (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Conflicting Times - Some early news reports after 9/11 will say the Langley jets take off at the later time of 9:35 a.m. [Washington Post, 9/12/2001; CNN, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 9/15/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001] But according to Colonel Alan Scott, the former vice commander of the Continental US NORAD Region, though the jets are airborne at 9:30, the report of this does not come down until 9:35, so this fact may account for the conflicting times. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]

Entity Tags: Brad Derrig, Alan Scott, Craig Borgstrom, Dean Eckmann, Langley Air Force Base, Larry Arnold

Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Langley Fighters Fly East over Ocean instead of North toward Washington

sEL('1626004942-71481','71481')

Route of the Langley Air
Base fighters to Washington. Route of the Langley Air Base fighters to Washington. [Source: Yvonne Vermillion/ MagicGraphix.com]The three F-16s that took off from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia (see (9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001) head east, out over the Atlantic Ocean, instead of north toward the Baltimore area, as NORAD57;s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) instructed when it issued the scramble order (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001). [New York Times, 11/15/2001; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Three Reasons Jets Head East - The 9/11 Commission will give three reasons why the Langley jets go east instead of north: 60;First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target57;s location. Second, a 56;generic57; flight plan52;prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly52;incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go 56;090 for 6057; superseded the original scramble order.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
NORAD Commander Blames 'Peacetime Rules' - In his testimony before the 9/11 Commission in May 2003, Larry Arnold, the commanding general of NORAD57;s Continental US Region, will address the question of why the Langley jets head out over the sea. He says, 60;When we scramble an aircraft70; the aircraft take off and they have a predetermined departure route.61; According to Arnold, NORAD is 60;looking outward,61; and so 60;our mission, unlike law enforcement57;s mission, is to protect things coming towards the United States.61; He concludes, 60;So our peacetime procedures, to de-conflict with civil aviation57;s, so as to not have endanger[ed] civil aviation in any particular way.61; Arnold will also suggest that 60;peacetime rules61; might be partly to blame for the Langley jets heading in the wrong direction. He says, 60;[I]f we were operating under something other than peacetime rules70; they could have turned immediately toward Washington, DC.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] According to the Wall Street Journal, the 60;peacetime rules61; Arnold refers to are 60;noise restrictions requiring that [the Langley jets] fly more slowly than supersonic speed and take off over water, pointed away from Washington.61; [Wall Street Journal, 3/22/2004 pdf file ] One of the Langley pilots, Captain Craig Borgstrom, will later recall that, shortly after the jets take off, NEADS 60;gave us max- subsonic,61; which is 60;as fast as you can go without breaking the sound barrier.61; [Filson, 2003, pp. 65]
Risk of Midair Collision - NORAD official Major General Craig McKinley will tell the 9/11 Commission that 60;another reason why61; the Langley jets are 60;vectored east originally61; is that 60;the air traffic over the Northeast corridor is so complex that to just launch fighters70; into that air traffic system can cause potential damage or midair collision. So we rely on the FAA to de-conflict those corridors.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]
Jets Far Away from Pentagon - When the Pentagon is hit at 9:37 a.m., the Langley jets have flown nearly 60 miles out over the ocean and are 150 miles from Washington (see 9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27; Spencer, 2008, pp. 151]

Entity Tags: Craig McKinley, Larry Arnold, Craig Borgstrom

Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

9:31 a.m.- 9:33 a.m. September 11, 2001: Norfolk Approach Control Handles Langley Jets, but Does Not Redirect Them to Correct Heading

sEL('1626004942-71539','71539')

The Norfolk Tower TRACON. [Source: Federal Aviation Administration]The FAA57;s Norfolk Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON) is briefly in charge of the three F- 16s launched from Langley Air Force Base (see (9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001), but it does not redirect them northward in line with the military57;s orders, after the Langley air traffic control tower previously instructed them to fly east. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 pdf file ]
Jets Sent East instead of North - When NORAD57;s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) issued the scramble order (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001), it specified that the Langley jets be directed north toward Washington, DC. But as the jets were taking off, the Langley tower instructed them to go 60;090 for 60,61; meaning they were to fly east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; Spencer, 2008, pp. 142-143]
TRACON Does Not Redirect Jets - When aircraft take off from Langley Air Force Base, control of them is passed from the Langley tower to the Norfolk TRACON. [9/11 Commission, 10/6/2003 pdf file ] Controllers at the TRACON are permitted to change an aircraft57;s flight plan, in the case of the Langley jets the 60;090 for 6061; instruction. [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 ] A 9/11 Commission memorandum will state that the Langley jets are 60;not bound to the 60 mile distance and could have turned to the north at any time they were directed to or had orders to do so.61; [9/11 Commission, 10/6/2003 pdf file ] However, although the TRACON is aware that NEADS ordered the jets to head north, it does not redirect them toward this heading instead of going east. [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 ] According to the 9/11 Commission, the reason is that 60;both the lead Langley pilot,61; Major Dean Eckmann, 60;and the FAA57;s Norfolk TRACON facility70; assumed the flight plan instruction to go 56;090 for 6057; was newer guidance that superseded the original scramble order instructions61; issued by NEADS. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 pdf file ]
Pilot Agrees to Follow Tower's Directions - At 9:33, Norfolk TRACON controller Michael Strother asks Eckmann what direction he wants to head in. Strother says, 60;Quit 2-5, are you going directly to the Langley 090 at 60?61; If Eckmann wanted to go somewhere other than what is specified in the flight plan, Strother has the authority to grant the request. But Eckmann replies, 60;Affirmative.61; He says, 60;That57;s our second clearance,61; and, referring to the NEADS scramble order, adds, 60;We had an earlier clearance of a vector and an altitude.61; The 9/11 Commission will summarize, 60;Put simply, the Langley pilots received flight direction guidance from both the scramble order and the Langley AFB departure flight plan, and continued on the latter heading for several minutes until a direction and geographic destination was provided.61; [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 pdf file ; 9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; 9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 ]
Navy Facility Takes over Control of Jets - Norfolk TRACON subsequently passes control of the three F-16s on to 60;Giant Killer,61; the Fleet Area Control and Surveillance Facility in Virginia Beach, Virginia. This is the Navy air traffic control agency that handles all over-water military operations. [New York Times, 2/10/1997; 9/11 Commission, 2004; 9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; Spencer, 2008, pp. 143] It will not be until around the time the Pentagon is hit that the Langley jets are redirected to their correct heading (see 9:36 a.m. September 11, 2001), after NEADS notices they are going in the wrong direction (see 9:34 a.m. September 11, 2001). [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006; Spencer, 2008, pp. 149-151]

Entity Tags: Norfolk Terminal Radar Approach Control, Dean Eckmann, Michael Strother

Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Navy Command Center Employees Killed While Trying to Get More Fighters Launched

sEL('1626004942-22717','22717')

Diagram showing the area of impact at the Pentagon. The Navy Command Center is highlighted in red. [Source: Washington Post] (click image to enlarge)Edward Earhart, Matthew Flocco, and their supervisor Lt. Nancy McKeown are inside the Pentagon, watching the televised footage of the burning World Trade Center. They belong to a small meteorological unit based in the Navy Command Center, located on the first floor of the building57;s southwest face. McKeown asks her two young aides to bring up New York on the computer because the Command Center is going to send some fighter jets there, in case there is another attack on the city. She orders them to program weather updates for military aircraft converging on New York. However, very soon after this, the Command Center is directly impacted when the Pentagon is hit, and both Flocco and Earhart are killed. [Washington Post, 9/16/2001; Reader's Digest, 9/2002; CNN, 9/8/2002; Newsday, 4/12/2006] Ronald Vauk, the watch commander in the Navy Command Center, is on the phone trying to get more fighters scrambled at the time the Pentagon is hit, though news reports say he wants them to protect Washington, not New York. [John Hopkins Magazine, 11/2001; New York Times, 11/17/2001; Baltimore Sun, 9/11/2002] At 9:24 a.m., NORAD had ordered fighters at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to scramble (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001), though these will not arrive over the Pentagon until after it is hit (see (Between 9:49 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004] According to Lt. Kevin Shaeffer, who works in the Command Center, just prior to the attack on the Pentagon, the watch section and watch leaders in the center are actively engaged in logging and recording the events going on in New York. He later says, 60;they all responded in exactly the way they were trained,61; and, 60;Had the Command Center not been destroyed it surely would have been able to provide the highest levels of our Navy leadership with updates as to exactly what was occurring.61; [Chips, 3/2003]

Entity Tags: Ronald Vauk, Kevin Shaeffer, Nancy McKeown

Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:28:46 ET (19 images) Reply Trace Private Reply

#515. To: farmfriend, buckeroo (#512)

The other chit-chat is distracting and actually diminishes some awesome work, here.

Buck has a boner for his new friend AGAviator.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:29:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#516. To: wudidiz (#509)

I just present the facts

When? I haven't any. HOTlink it.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:29:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#517. To: AGAviator (#491)

Sorry, didn't have time to pretty up the HTML for you. Anybody who wants to know what happened can follow the voluminous links.

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:30:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#518. To: buckeroo (#516)

HOTlink it.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:31:57 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply

#519. To: buckeroo (#512)

Your ideas concerning US government involvement concerning 9/11 is welcomed.

I didn't think you loved me any more. I will say a good movie on 9/11 is Ripple Effect.

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:35:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#520. To: wudidiz (#518)

Who chewed the bottom of her shirt off? Poor girl looks chilly, like she needs some warming up...

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:35:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#521. To: wudidiz (#515)

Buck has a boner for his new friend AGAviator.

I bet they know what each other's spit tastes like...

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:36:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#522. To: FormerLurker (#520)

Am I gonna get in trouble for posting that?

Remember that one gif thread OLD Friend started way back?

With the moving snapper?

christine pulled it pretty quick....

lol

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:37:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#523. To: wudidiz, buckeroo (#513)

You mean on 4 or where you are too?

Everywhere. We have confirmed that the "leadership" of the American Independent Party, the one instrumental in our destruction, has ties to the Republican Party leadership, the destruction of the Reform Party and the Southern Poverty Law Center. We suspect he is ADL too but haven't proven that yet.

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#524. To: FormerLurker (#521)

Gross.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:38:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#525. To: FormerLurker (#514)

The fundamental problem with YOUR post is that there is an assumption of guilt or conspiracy about the activities to scramble a few jet fighters in the face of an actual terror exposition.

All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America. You have not shown any indication of any planning, execution, logistics, funding and later cover-ups by the many people it would take to within the government to create this issue. Not even one INSIDER witness that should have come forward by now.

You fail, dude.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:38:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#526. To: wudidiz (#522) (Edited)

You just need to tie the picture into terrorism.

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:39:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#527. To: buckeroo, FormerLurker (#525)

All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America. You have not shown any indication of any planning, execution, logistics, funding and later cover-ups by the many people it would take to within the government to create this issue. Not even one INSIDER witness that should have come forward by now.
You fail, dude.

Not true.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:41:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#528. To: wudidiz (#518)

As always ... you don't dig deep enough to enough life and the bounty of pleasure.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:41:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#529. To: farmfriend (#526)

You're gonna get banned and you're gonna get me banned too for starting it.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:42:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#530. To: buckeroo (#525)

All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America.

Not really. Those jets are scrabbled routinely yet on the one day they are needed they are ordered to stand down. Why?

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:43:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#531. To: wudidiz (#527)

Not true.

You are fucking up this thread... KNOCK IT OFF.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:43:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#532. To: wudidiz (#529)

You're gonna get banned and you're gonna get me banned too for starting it.

LOL no one pays attention to my posts anyway so I doubt it. It might get pulled and probably should be.

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:44:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#533. To: FormerLurker, turtle, buckeroo, critter (#517)

Didn't have time to pretty up the HTML for you. Anybody who wants to know what happened can follow the voluminous links.

Maybe you should have.

You would have found out from your own link that at 9:30 the fighters took off heading 60 miles due east into the Atlantic Defense Zone, because they were not told the purpose of their flight so they followed standard procedure to repel threats from outside the country.

Finally, the tower controller tells him, 60;Roger, Quit flight is cleared for takeoff, 090 for 60,61; meaning the fighters are to fly due east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator posted on 2010-07-12 2:44:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#534. To: buckeroo (#531)

KNOCK IT OFF

LOL

Shut up.

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:45:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#535. To: farmfriend (#526)

I can't believe you deleted that art.

You're such a pussy.....

;-D

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:46:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#536. To: buckeroo (#525)

All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America. You have not shown any indication of any planning, execution, logistics, funding and later cover-ups by the many people it would take to within the government to create this issue. Not even one INSIDER witness that should have come forward by now.

I am simply showing the CLAIMED NORAD response, not even MENTIONING the case of misguided radar blips, war games were in play, and the foreknowledge that morning that jets had already impacted the WTC. Washington was ALREADY on alert, yet some half assed smoke and mirrors show was staged from Langley AFB, rather than the WASHINGTON DC AFB ie, ANDREWS, where they had TWO FUCKING SQUADRONS of alert aircraft ready for immediate launch, yet DIDN'T even though they KNEW a rogue airliner was on it's way from Ohio.

And yet we were once able to knock down waves of Soviet bombers at a moments notice.

Either they spent every penny in the way of tax dollars up their noses, or they are SERIOUSLY playing us as true suckers, in more ways than one.

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:47:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#537. To: wudidiz (#535)

I can't believe you deleted that art.
You're such a pussy.....

LOL yes I am!

My husband has a picture of this t-shirt that says I lost my virginity but I still have the box it came in. I need to get a copy.

Name calling is juvenile.

farmfriend posted on 2010-07-12 2:48:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#538. To: AGAviator (#533)

Finally, the tower controller tells him, 60;Roger, Quit flight is cleared for takeoff, 090 for 60,61; meaning the fighters are to fly due east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

Did you ignore the part that states they launched at 9:24, and their purpose was to intercept Flight 77?

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:49:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#539. To: wudidiz (#534)

Shut up.

OK .. from your personal perspective that is well researched, you think 911 was caused by the government because of the chemtrails, cropcricles, aliens from outer space or AlGore?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:50:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#540. To: farmfriend (#537)

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:50:16 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply

#541. To: buckeroo, all (#539)

Shut up.
OK .. from your personal perspective that is well researched, you think 911 was caused by the government because of the chemtrails, cropcricles, aliens from outer space or AlGore?

wudidiz posted on 2010-07-12 2:52:13 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply

#542. To: AGAviator (#533)

Could Reach Washington before Pentagon Attack - F-16s have a maximum speed of 1,500 mph at high altitude, or 915 mph at sea level, so the three fighters could plausibly travel the 130 miles from Langley Air Force Base to Washington in just minutes. [Chant, 1987, pp. 404; Associated Press, 6/16/2000; USA Today, 9/16/2001; Washington Post, 9/16/2001 ; US Air Force, 10/2007] Major General Larry Arnold, the commanding general of NORAD’s Continental US Region, will tell the 9/11 Commission, “I think if those aircraft had gotten airborne immediately, if we were operating under something other than peacetime rules, where they could have turned immediately toward Washington, DC, and gone into burner, it is physically possible that they could have gotten over Washington” before 9:37, when the Pentagon is hit. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] Yet according to the 9/11 Commission, the jets are redirected east over the Atlantic Ocean and will be 150 miles from the Pentagon when it is hit (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27] Conflicting Times - Some early news reports after 9/11 will say the Langley jets take off at the later time of 9:35 a.m. [Washington Post, 9/12/2001; CNN, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 9/15/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001] But according to Colonel Alan Scott, the former vice commander of the Continental US NORAD Region, though the jets are airborne at 9:30, the report of this does not come down until 9:35, so this fact may account for the conflicting times. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 2:53:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#543. To: FormerLurker (#536)

I am simply showing the CLAIMED NORAD response,

Mere BUMBLING based upon a surprise attack from illegal aliens.

IF the government (any branch of service, level of government or payment to a contractor) had some connection you would see it by now; nine years later.

In fact, IF the US government had intended to create a war in the ME such as Iraq based upon 911 (which is often suggested) you would have seen MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WMD FOUND, IDENTIFIED AND SUBMITTED PUBLICKLY to not just the US taxpayers but the whole world.

Instead, the scenario in Iraq was ... America fucked upped.

You see, America doesn't have the capability to plan and execute these plans. All America can do is perform knee-jerk reactions.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 2:59:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#544. To: buckeroo (#543)

Mere BUMBLING based upon a surprise attack from illegal aliens.

They weren't ilegal, they had visas and all that.

In fact, it wasn't even the ones they claim, since more than a few of them are still FUCKING ALIVE.

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 3:02:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#545. To: buckeroo (#543)

In fact, IF the US government had intended to create a war in the ME such as Iraq based upon 911 (which is often suggested) you would have seen MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WMD FOUND, IDENTIFIED AND SUBMITTED PUBLICKLY to not just the US taxpayers but the whole world.

Yet we are still there, aren't we. It's like, so what, we lied, what are you going to do about it....

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 3:03:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#546. To: buckeroo (#543)

BTW buck, the war in Iraq is just an afterthought, in that it wasn't the PRIMARY target. Afghanistan was the primary target, and Iraq was just gravy.

FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-12 3:07:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#547. To: FormerLurker (#544)

They weren't ilegal, they had visas and all that.

Everyone of the 19 terrorists identified by the State Department and the FBI were in the USA based upon fraudulent documents. Not one of them were here legally.

There was no research by the US government... NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.... it was all rubber stamped by sleepy US government workers not executing their responsibilities correctly according to process and procedure.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo posted on 2010-07-12 3:08:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

#548. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#542)