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All is Vanity
See other All is Vanity Articles

Title: Why I Don't Have Any Use for Truthers
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 9, 2010
Author: Turtle
Post Date: 2010-07-09 11:35:19 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 27459
Comments: 879


Poster Comment:

This woman had sulfuric acid thrown in her face by guess who? Someone engaging in Typical Negro Behavior.

They do this out of envy. "I can't get this woman, so nobody can have her."

He got life in prison.

These are the real problems, not hallucinations abour remote-controlled airplanes and bombs in towers. (1 image)

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#630. To: James Deffenbach (#625)

I'm thinking of moving to Alabama...


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-12   11:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#631. To: wudidiz (#630)

And Mrs. What It? Is she going to go too?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-12   11:53:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#632. To: AGAviator (#628)

These cases, however, turned out to be instances of mistaken identity

So who ARE the hijackers then, since those they claimed were the hijackers are still alive and report that their passports were lost or stolen?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   12:42:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#633. To: AGAviator (#628) (Edited)

Tracking the 19 Hijackers
What are they up to now?
At least 9 of them survived 9/11

A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left
was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase."
New Yorker 10/1/01 by Seymour Hersh
American Airlines #11 Boeing 767
7:45 a.m. Departed Boston for Los Angeles
8:45 a.m. Crashed into North Tower of World Trade Center
Satam M. A. Al 
Suqami
Satam Suqami
Used Firearm
Waleed M. Alshehri
Waleed Alshehri
Still Alive3
Wail M. Alshehri
Wail Alshehri
Still alive10
BL Video12
Mohamed Atta
Mohamed Atta
Still Alive9
U.S. Military1
Abdulaziz Alomari
Abdulaziz Alomari
Still Alive4
U.S. Military1

American Airlines #77 - Boeing 757
8:10 a.m. Departed Dulles for Los Angeles
9:39 a.m. Crashed into Pentagon
Khalid 
Almihdhar
Khalid Almihdhar
Still Alive2
Lived w/FBI20
Majed Moqed
Majed Moqed
Nawaf Alhazmi
Nawaf Alhazmi
Lived w/FBI20
Salem Alhazmi
Salem Alhazmi
Still Alive6
BL Video12
Hani Hanjour
Hani Hanjour
Lacked alleged
flying ability19

United Airlines #175 - Boeing 767
7:58 a.m. Departed Boston for Los Angeles
9:05 a.m. Crashed into South Tower of World Trade Center
Marwan Al-Shehhi
Marwan Al-Shehhi
Still Alive11
Alleged Pilot
Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi 
Banihammad
Fayez Rashid
Ahmed Alghamdi
Ahmed Alghamdi
U.S. Military1
Hamza Alghamdi
Hamza Alghamdi
Fabrications18
U.S. Military1
Photo of Mohand 
Alshehri
Mohand Alshehri

United Airlines #93 - Boeing 757
8:42 a.m. Departed Newark for San Francisco
10:03 a.m. Crashed in Stony Creek Township
Saeed Alghamdi
Saeed Alghamdi
Still Alive5
U.S. Military1
Ahmad Ibrahim A. Al 
Haznawi
Ahmad Haznawi
Ahmed Alnami
Ahmed Alnami
Still Alive7
U.S. Military1
Ziad Samir Jarrah
Ziad Samir Jarrah
Fabrications16
Alleged Pilot

The FBI still says these are the terrorists.14 But when they are found alive,
the FBI says their identity was stolen, and its not the terrorist.15

Remember that suspicious bin Laden "confession" video?

Back to top

1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/attacked/A38270- 2001Sep15.html
Washington Post - 9/16/01 - 2nd Witness Arrested; 25 Held for Questioning
Two of 19 suspects named by the FBI, Saeed Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi, have the same names as men listed at a housing facility for foreign military trainees at Pensacola. Two others, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alnami, have names similar to individuals listed in public records as using the same address inside the base. In addition, a man named Saeed Alghamdi graduated from the Defense Language Institute at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, while men with the same names as two other hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari, appear as graduates of the U.S. International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala., and the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio, respectively.

order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

http://www.azstarnet.com/attack/10928TERRORISTMUGGRAPHIC.html
Online Service of the Arizona Daily Star - 9/28/01 - Hijack suspect profiles
"An FBI notice to banks on Sept. 19 raised the possibility that Almihdhar might still be alive without speculating or explaining how that could be possible. "

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/27/inv.suspects/
CNN - 9/28/01 - Details of hijacking suspects released
Khalid Almihdhar: there are reports he is still alive
3
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well. Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September. Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.
4
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp? story=94438
'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah - 9/17/01
A man named by the US Department of Justice as a suicide hijacker of American Airlines flight 11 ­ the first airliner to smash into the World Trade Centre ­ is very much alive and living in Jeddah. Abdulrahman al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking ­ as well as being dead ­ and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_suspects.html
ABC - Who Did It? FBI Links Names to Terror Attacks
"The name [listed by the FBI] is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York," Abdulaziz Alomari told the London- based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper.

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Omari, who was accused of hijacking the American Airlines plane that smashed into the the World Trade Centre's north tower, said that he was at his desk at the Saudi telecommunications authority in Riyadh when the attacks took place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports. He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.
5
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
The Saudi Airlines pilot, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, 25, and Abdulaziz Al-Omari, an engineer from Riyadh, are furious that the hijackers' "personal details" - including name, place, date of birth and occupation - matched their own.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
BBC - 9/23/01 - Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi. He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.
6
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon. He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.
7
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml? xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml
Revealed: the men with stolen identities - 9/23/01
Mr Al-Nami, 33, from Riyadh, an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, said that he was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck. He said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked."
8
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/investigation.terrorism/index.html
CNN - FBI: Early probe results show 18 hijackers took part 9/13/01
Based on information from multiple law enforcement sources, CNN reported that Adnan Bukhari and Ameer Bukhari of Vero Beach Florida, were suspected to be two of the pilots who crashed planes into the World Trade Center. CNN later learned that Adnan Bukhari is still in Florida, where he was questioned by the FBI. We are sorry for the misinformation. A federal law enforcement source now tells CNN that Bukhari passed an FBI polygraph and is not considered a suspect. Through his attorney, Bukhari says that he is helping authorities. Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash last year.

Some of those involved in the plot left suicide notes, but they are not believed to have been the hijackers, a government source told The Associated Press. It was unclear whether those who left the notes actually killed themselves.
9
Cairo Times - 9/27/01
He also claimed that his son had called him two days after the attack, and described it as "a normal conversation." But he snarled when asked to give further details. Asked what country Muhammad had called from, he said, "The name of the country isn't written on the phone." Asked where Muhammad was now, he said, "Ask Mossad."

order Mohamed Atta and the Venice Flying Circus, the real story of the Hijackers
Video shows Atta was not suicidal, as he pays bills and returns rentals.
10
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-092101probe.story
Los Angeles Times - 9/21/01
A man by the same name is a pilot, whose father is a Saudi diplomat in Bombay. "I personally talked to both father and son today," said Gaafar Allagany, head of the Saudi Embassy's information center.
11
Saudi Gazette 9/18/01 and The Khaleej Times 9/20/01
Marwan al-Shehhi is still alive in Morocco
12
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/20/attack/main322092.shtml
CBS - Bin Laden Names Hijackers On Tape Dec. 20, 2001
He would identify only three: Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Wail Alshehri. Alshehri was on American Airlines flight 11, one of the planes that hit the Twin Towers at the World Trade Center in New York; Alhamzi and Alhamzi were on American Airlines flight 77, which hit the Pentagon.

Bin Laden's "smoking gun" video names living, uninvolved people? This makes no sense!
This is just the beginning, this "confession" video is full of abnormalities.
13
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1556096.stm
BBC- The last moments of Flight 11
The FBI has named five hijackers on board Flight 11, whereas Ms Sweeney spotted only four. Also, the seat numbers she gave were different from those registered in the hijackers' names.
14
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bueau of Investigation - Hijackers
15
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm
BBC - FBI probes hijackers' identities 9/21/01
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
16
http://www.sun- sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sns-worldtrade-jarrah- lat.story
Los Angeles Times - 10/23/01 - Friends of terror suspect say allegations make no sense
By Carol J. Williams Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
...Ziad and Salim ... left Lebanon together April 4, 1996, at the age of 20, heading to the eastern German town of Greifswald in pursuit of both an education and a good time.

Jarrah and the other three men named by the FBI as hijackers...initially came to be on the list of 19 because they "have been identified as having 'Arabic' names

http://web.archive.org/web/20010925123748/boston.com/dailyglobe2/268/nation/Hija ck_suspect_lived_a_life_or_a_lie%2B.shtml
Boston Globe - Hijack suspect lived a life, or a lie - 9/25/01
Although a Brooklyn apartment lease from 1995-1996 bears Ziad Jarrah's name - and landlords there have identified his photograph - his family insists he was in Beirut at the time.

How was he in Brooklyn and Lebanon at the same time?

..two days before the hijacking, his nephew called and told the family he'd be coming home for a cousin's wedding in mid-September. "He said he had even bought a new suit for the occasion."

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/01/cia.hijacker/index.html
CNN 8/1/02 - September 11 hijacker questioned in January 2001
The CIA suspected Ziad Jarrah had been in Afghanistan and wanted him questioned because of "his suspected involvement in terrorist activities," UAE sources said.

A CIA spokesman vigorously denied that the CIA knew anything about Jarrah before September 11 or had anything do with his questioning in Dubai.
17
The New Yorker - What Went Wrong
by Seymour Hersh - 10/1/01
Many of the investigators believe that some of the initial clues that were uncovered about the terrorists' identities and preparations, such as flight manuals, were meant to be found. A former high- level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase."

In interviews over the past two weeks, a number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States, a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved.
18
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/articles/A19549-2001Sep24.html
Washington Post - 9/25/01 - Some Light Shed On Saudi Suspects - A12
Still, the father of Alghamdi told Al Watan that the picture provided by the FBI was not that of his son. "It has no resemblance to him at all," he said.
19
http://www.newsday.com/ny- usflight232380680sep23.story
Tracing Trail Of Hijackers - By Thomas Frank - 9/23/01
At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.... However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took....Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. .....chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14365-2001Sep11.html
Washington Post - On Flight 77: 'Our Plane Is Being Hijacked' - 9/12/01 - Page A01
...the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.... Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm... Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious.
20
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml
CBS - Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant - Sept. 9, 2002
Two of the Sept. 11 hijackers who lived in San Diego in 2000 rented a room from a man who reportedly worked as an undercover FBI informant....the FBI informant prayed with them and even helped one open a bank account.



"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   13:18:27 ET  (19 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#634. To: FormerLurker (#633)

Bush Admits Majority of 911 Hijackers Were Saudis

Six years too late, George W. Bush has finally acknowledged that 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers were citizens of the U.S. ally, Saudi Arabia:

From 2003 to 2007, the number of people who believed Bush’s lie dropped from 70 percent to 33 percent. Bush will never recover from the anger felt by the 37 percent of Americans who came to the realization that they had been lied to by their president.

“There’s a lot of really good people here [in Saudi Arabia]. Look, you can’t deny the fact that some, a majority, of the terrorists came from Saudi, but you should not condemn an entire society based upon the actions of a handful of killers.”

It would have been nice if the interviewer, ABC’s Terry Moran, had gotten Bush on the record about the Middle Eastern nation whose citizens were not represented among these 19 mass murderers.

The breakdown was 15 Saudis, one Egyptian, one Lebanese and two from the Union of Arab Emirates (UAE).

None were from Iraq.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   13:35:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#635. To: AGAviator (#634)

Thing is, at least 9 of them weren't the real people, if there WERE real people, "hijacking" those planes. So why are they still listed as hijackers?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   13:37:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#636. To: AGAviator (#634)

None were from Iraq.

And why did we invade Iraq and Afghanistan?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   13:38:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#637. To: wudidiz (#484)

Soft Porn Break.....

Roll Tide Roll!.

(Truthfully she looks stuck on herself.)

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   13:51:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#638. To: AGAviator (#634)

I'll have to admit, I never thought this thread would have 634 responses. Of course, when you post pictures of beautiful women savaged by subhumans, it does get people's dander up...

St. Ausgustine on the State: "It was a criminal band that achieved legitimacy not by renouncing aggression, but rather by attaining impunity."

Turtle  posted on  2010-07-12   14:08:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#639. To: FormerLurker (#632)

So who ARE the hijackers then, since those they claimed were the hijackers are still alive and report that their passports were lost or stolen?

Although the USG says the hijackers entered the US on legal passports, it wouldn't be surprising if some tried to cover their tracks somehow by taking the names, possibly even ID's, of people who resembled them. Though the Saudis say this didn't happen.

Also there are Arabic names very common among many people, similar to "John Smith" in the US. So one "Mohammed So and So" can have another person with the same name but a be different person and from a different family.

Finally aren't consistent translations of Arabic to English. Just the first name "Muhammed" can be spelled "Muhammad," "Mohammed," "Mahmud," etc and all these will show up separately in a computer which is very picky about spelling and treats each spelling of the same name as a separate person. Similar spelling variations exist for many different other first and last names.

Since Arabic does not use the Latin alphabet there isn't a perfect overlap between the 2 languages and their spelling and pronunciation conventions. So there is room for different name variations especially when done by clerical level people not focusing on their job's details.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   14:33:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#640. To: Turtle (#638)

Of course, when you post pictures of beautiful women savaged by subhumans, it does get people's dander up...

Whenever I see one of those photos, my very first thought is "Are they real?" About 95% of the time they aren't.

Implants are cheating.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   14:34:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#641. To: AGAviator (#639) (Edited)

Finally aren't consistent translations of Arabic to English. Just the first name "Muhammed" can be spelled "Muhammad," "Mohammed," "Mahmud," etc and all these will show up separately in a computer which is very picky about spelling and treats each spelling of the same name as a separate person. Similar spelling variations exist for many different other first and last names.

While there are many Smith or Jones in the US, not all have the same street address, occupation, and photo.

The alleged hijackers share not only the same name, but street address, occupation, and photo as the people who are still alive.

In other words, they are the same people.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   16:22:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#642. To: AGAviator (#639) (Edited)

Since Arabic does not use the Latin alphabet there isn't a perfect overlap between the 2 languages and their spelling and pronunciation conventions. So there is room for different name variations especially when done by clerical level people not focusing on their job's details.

From the UK Telegraph

Revealed: the men with stolen identities

 

THEIR names were flashed around the world as suicide hijackers who carried out the attacks on America. But yesterday four innocent men told how their identities had been stolen by Osama bin Laden's teams to cover their tracks.

The men - all from Saudi Arabia - spoke of their shock at being mistakenly named by the FBI as suicide terrorists. None of the four was in the United States on September 11 and all are alive in their home country.

The Telegraph obtained the first interviews with the men since they learnt that they were on the FBI's list of hijackers who died in the crashes in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks.

Saudi Airlines said it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots. The FBI released the list of 19 suicide terrorists three days after the attacks.

The statement said that the 19 "have been identified as hijackers aboard the four airliners". Photographs and personal details were published around the world with an appeal for "information about these individuals, even though they are presumed dead".

The Saudi Airlines pilot, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, 25, and Abdulaziz Al- Omari, an engineer from Riyadh, are furious that the hijackers' "personal details" - including name, place, date of birth and occupation - matched their own.

Mr Al-Ghamdi was named as a terrorist on the United Airlines flight that crashed in Pennsylvania - a plane said by some experts to have been heading for the White House.

He first knew that he was on the FBI's list when he was told by a colleague. Speaking from Tunisia, he said: "I was completely shocked. For the past 10 months I have been based in Tunis with 22 other pilots learning to fly an Airbus 320. The FBI provided no evidence of my presumed involvement in the attacks.

"You cannot imagine what it is like to be described as a terrorist - and a dead man - when you are innocent and alive." The airline was angry too. Officials brought Mr Al-Ghamdi back to Saudi Arabia last week for a 10-day holiday to avoid arrest or interrogation.

An official said: "We are consulting lawyers about what action to take to protect the reputation of our pilots." Mr Al-Ghamdi faced further embarrassment when CNN, the American television network, flashed a photograph of him around the world, naming him as a hijack suspect.

The FBI had published his personal details but with a photograph of somebody else, presumably a hijacker who had "stolen" his identity. CNN, however, showed a picture of the real Mr Al-Ghamdi.

He said that CNN had probably got the picture from the Flight Safety flying school he attended in Florida. CNN has since broadcast a clarification saying that the photograph may not be that of the accused.

Mr Al-Omari, who was accused of hijacking the American Airlines plane that smashed into the the World Trade Centre's north tower, said that he was at his desk at the Saudi telecommunications authority in Riyadh when the attacks took place.

He said: "I couldn't believe it when the FBI put me on their list. They gave my name and my date of birth, but I am not a suicide bomber. I am here. I am alive. I have no idea how to fly a plane. I had nothing to do with this."

Mr Al-Omari said his passport was stolen when his apartment in Denver, Colorado, was burgled in 1995. He had been studying engineering at Denver University since 1993. He was given a new passport in Riyadh on December 31, 1995 and returned to America to resume his studies in January 1996. After graduating last year he returned to Riyadh to join the electricity authority and later moved to the telecommunications authority.

The other two men accused of being terrorists are Salem Al-Hamzi and Ahmed Al-Nami. Mr Al-Hamzi is 26 and had just returned to work at a petrochemical complex in the industrial eastern city of Yanbou after a holiday in Saudi Arabia when the hijackers struck. He was accused of hijacking the American Airlines Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon.

He said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." The FBI described him as 21 and said that his possible residences were Fort Lee or Wayne, both in New Jersey.

Mr Al-Nami, 33, from Riyadh, an administrative supervisor with Saudi Arabian Airlines, said that he was in Riyadh when the terrorists struck.

He said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked."

He had never lost his passport and found it "very worrying" that his identity appeared to have been "stolen" and published by the FBI without any checks. The FBI had said his "possible residence" was Delray Beach in Florida.

Last night the FBI admitted that there was some doubt about the identities of some of the suspects. A spokesman said: "The identification process has been complicated by the fact that many Arabic family names are similar. It is also possible that the hijackers used false identities."

The spokesman declined to say whether the FBI would apologise but added: "If we have made mistakes then obviously that would be regrettable but this is a big and complicated investigation."

When the list was published Robert Mueller, the FBI director, said that it was "fairly confident" that the names were not aliases.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   16:31:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#643. To: FormerLurker (#641)

In other words, they are the same people.

Why did the Saudi government first deny, then later acknowlge to US media that 15 out of 19 hijackers, accused of executing suicide attacks that totally shocked most Westerners, were Saudis, if they weren't. What possible benefit could they get from saying this?

Then 6 years later GW Bush himself said the same, then quickly trying to gloss it over adding you can't judge an entire country by the actions of a few people - though he did precisely that with Iraq and Afghanistan. What benefit does the USG get when its leader states the terrorist attackers are from an ally, not some madmen, and not from an invaded country?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   16:39:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#644. To: AGAviator (#643) (Edited)

Why did the Saudi government first deny, then later acknowlge to US media that 15 out of 19 hijackers, accused of executing suicide attacks that totally shocked most Westerners, were Saudis, if they weren't. What possible benefit could they get from saying this?

You'd have to ask them, but if I were to guess, it's because they didn't fear any repercussions if they went along with the story...

What it comes down to is that dead men don't walk and talk, and that's what these so-called hijackers are doing.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-12   16:44:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#645. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#644)

And of course never addressed by AGGravator is that the FBI had identified all 19 by 9-12 and yet none of those names show up on the passenger manifests, nor are there any videos of any of them boarding the flights used for the Op.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   19:26:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#646. To: Original_Intent (#645)

Being trained by a spooky muslim outfit, no less. Shivers...

"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily, giving flowers to the cops just isn't going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window.” - William S Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2010-07-12   19:40:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#647. To: Dakmar (#646)

They were Magic Muslims and were protected from being seen on the Airport Surveillance Video because Osama Ben Forgotten waved his Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   21:05:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#648. To: Original_Intent (#647)

Yeah, and they knew which planes had the Magickal Jet Fuel™ too! It gets scarier and scarier, or would if they had ever made more than one batch of that. Another 100,000 gallons of that would have taken down every building in America, maybe the world.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-12   21:24:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#649. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#645) (Edited)

And of course never addressed by AGGravator is that the FBI had identified all 19 by 9-12 and yet none of those names show up on the passenger manifests, nor are there any videos of any of them boarding the flights used for the Op.

And of course not addressed by Original_Indent is the fact that 3 separate stewardesses made phone calls describing "Middle Eastern" passengers and giving their seat numbers, which were recorded.

And the fact some 30 passengers made cell phone calls between takeover and crashes, including Barbara Olson, describing the attacks, the injuries and deaths caused by the attackers, and in the case of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, plans by some rugby and football players to rush the cockpit and go head to head with the "muscle" hijackers who were supposed to control the passengers, to overpower the hijackers and get back control.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   21:40:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#650. To: farmfriend, FormerLurker, christine, wudidiz, all, cuz I'm too lazy to type or copy names (#560)

Yeah I've heard it was all about the pipeline before but when you look at things like Iran Contra etc it is always about the drugs.

Iraq was about a pipeline:

www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED04Ak01.html

Apr 4, 2003

In the pipeline: More regime change
By Hooman Peimani

An Israeli daily, Ha'aretz, has reported that Israel is seriously considering restarting a strategically important oil pipeline that once transferred oil from the Iraqi city of Mosul to Israel's northern port of Haifa. Given the Israeli claim of a positive US approach to the plan, the Israeli project provides grounds for a theory that the ongoing war against Iraq is in part a joint US, British and Israeli design for reshaping the Middle East to serve their particular interests, including their oil requirements.


Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY

Critter  posted on  2010-07-12   21:43:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#651. To: Original_Intent (#647)

They were Magic Muslims and were protected from being seen on the Airport Surveillance Video because Osama Ben Forgotten waved his Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.

You forgot how he clicked his heels three times and told Toto, his camel, that they weren't in Mecca anymore.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-12   21:56:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#652. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#647) (Edited)

Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.

It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran.

And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced.

OBL has lost tactical battles here and there, but is fully proceeding on his strategic plan to catalyze the economic collapse of America ala the former Soviet Union, instigate the collapse of America's leading role as a principal determinant in world affairs, and cause America end up with a fragmented society within which further attacks will be possible.

OBL has never claimed to be the head of a major force. He sees al Qaida as providing motivating, ideological, and sometimes logistical support where needed.

There is no evidence he is dead, and people who have known him far better than the TV and intenet fixated boobs, say he is war-gaming the next associates' attacks to be even more spectacular than the 911 incidents.

And following his past forms, he has given public warning which he believes he is obligated by the Koran to do. Just as he gave continuing warnings about 911 after the 1998 destructions of the 2 US African embassies. And he is in no great rush, not wishing his acolytes to make the same mistakes which caused the 911 attacks to be less than 100% successful as planned.

2008: OBL Planning Greater Attacks Against US

Osama bin Laden is planning an attack against the United States that will "outdo by far" September 11, 2001, an Arab newspaper in London has reported.

And, a former senior Yemeni al-Qaeda operative said, the terrorist organisation has entered a "positive phase", reinforcing specific training camps around the world that will lead the next "wave of action" against the West.

The warning, on the front page of an Arabic newspaper published in London, Al- Quds Al-Arabi - and reported widely in the major Italian papers - quotes a person described as being "very close to al-Qaeda" in Yemen.

The paper is edited by Abdel al-Bari Atwan, who is said to have been the last journalist to interview bin Laden, in 1996.

Bin Laden is himself closely following preparations for an attack against the US and aims to "change the face of world politics and economics", the report says.

The former operative is quoted as saying that "this will be shown by the fact that we now control a major part of the south of Somalia".

He says he remains in contact with current chiefs of the organisation in Yemen and that, only six months ago, bin Laden sent a message to all jihad cells in the Arab world, asking them not to interact with their governments or local political parties and to deny any request for mediation or formal talks.

The source also said that, during the next few days, the terrorist organisation might send a sign of its violent intentions.

The warning has emerged at the same time as publication of a report leaked to London's Telegraph newspaper, which reveals that a document drawn up by the intelligence branch of the Ministry of Defence says that thousands of extremists are active in Britain.

The document says the operatives are predominantly British-born and aged between 18 and 30. Many are believed to have been trained in overseas terrorist camps.

Security officials are convinced al-Qaeda cells will attempt another "spectacular" inside Britain with major transport centres, such as airports and train stations, the most likely targets, the Telegraph reports.

Other targets include the Houses of Parliament, Whitehall and Buckingham and St James' palaces, with the threat level described as "severe". Right now they're shoring up their base. They're in no hurry, just as from 1998 to 2001 there wasn't much activity until the day of action occurred.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work. Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-12   22:05:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#653. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, all (#649)

Me: And of course never addressed by AGGravator is that the FBI had identified all 19 by 9-12 and yet none of those names show up on the passenger manifests, nor are there any videos of any of them boarding the flights used for the Op.

AGGravator: And of course not addressed by Original_Indent is the fact that 3 separate stewardesses made phone calls describing "Middle Eastern" passengers and giving their seat numbers, which were recorded.

And the fact some 30 passengers made cell phone calls between takeover and crashes, including Barbara Olson, describing the attacks, the injuries and deaths caused by the attackers, and in the case of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, plans by some rugby and football players to rush the cockpit and go head to head with the "muscle" hijackers who were supposed to control the passengers, to overpower the hijackers and get back control.

Diversionary tactic.

You did not address my point. It is a neat ploy - a casual glance might lead the casual observer to conclude the point was being addressed but it was not.

What do so called, technically impossible at the time, "cell phone calls*" have to do with how the FBI was able to identify 19 alleged hijackers by the afternoon of 9-12 whose names did not appear on the Passenger Manifests nor were their images captured on any Airport Surveillance Videos? The answer is of course nothing. It is nothing more than rhetorical sleight of hand to avoid the point while substituting another more manageable topic. I'm not biting. As well a Stewardess call describing "Middle Eastern" passengers is again a "will o' the wisp" as when one analyzes it for actual information content it is simply a physical description with no other essential identifying information. "Middle Eastern" looking is such a large universe of individuals, well over a billion people, that it is at best nothing more than a starting point which tells us nothing as to the identity of the hijackers. That is before we even get to the technical impossibilities of the alleged calls which I am not going into as there is ream upon ream of information regarding the dubious reports of calls. There are so many contradictions that have since come out as to render them valueless as evidence of much of anything. Just as amusing was Orrin Hatch's pronouncement, on the Capitol Steps, the evening of 911 that this had to be the work of the nefarious Fu Manchu Osama Bin Laden. How did he know it was Osama Bin Laden the evening of 911? That is some mighty fast detective work, OR a cover legend he had already been briefed on.

*Ted Olson's Report of Phone Calls from Barbara Olson on 9/11: Three Official Denials

Excerpt: "Olson’s Self-Contradictions

Olson began this process of undermining by means of self-contradictions. He first told CNN, as we have seen, that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone.” But he contradicted this claim on September 14, telling Hannity and Colmes that she had reached him by calling the Department of Justice collect. Therefore, she must have been using the “airplane phone,” he surmised, because “she somehow didn’t have access to her credit cards.”4 However, this version of Olson’s story, besides contradicting his first version, was even self-contradictory, because a credit card is needed to activate a passenger-seat phone.

Later that same day, moreover, Olson told Larry King Live that the second call from his wife suddenly went dead because “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well.”5 After that return to his first version, he finally settled on the second version, saying that his wife had called collect and hence must have used “the phone in the passengers’ seats” because she did not have her purse.6

By finally settling on this story, Olson avoided a technological pitfall. Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so (Olson’s statement that “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well” was a considerable understatement). The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.7

However, Olson’s second story, besides being self-contradictory, was contradicted by American Airlines. ..."

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   23:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#654. To: James Deffenbach (#651)

They were Magic Muslims and were protected from being seen on the Airport Surveillance Video because Osama Ben Forgotten waved his Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.

You forgot how he clicked his heels three times and told Toto, his camel, that they weren't in Mecca anymore.

LOL!

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   23:14:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#655. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter (#653) (Edited)

One of the events immediately after 9/11 was the 9/12 flyout of the Saudi Bin Ladin family PRIVATE JET back to Saudi Arabia.

It was the only private plane to fly in the entire nation that day.

The order to allow that civilian flight EXCEPTION during that historic flight restriction WHEN NO AMERICAN PRIVATE OR COMMERCIAL flights could fly came from whose authority?

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2010-07-12   23:21:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#656. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, all (#652)

Me: ...Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.

AGGravator: It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran.

And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced.

Oh, spare me. Of course to sell the suckers Osama, Tim Osman, Bin Laden has to be built up as this mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's "Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu". Of course wasting time on on this line of unreasoning is just that - a waste of time because I am not disputing that Osama Bin Laden was not a very intelligent man. What I am disputing is that he did not have the wherewithal to pull off this monstrous Psychological Operation to create a Psychological Framework where the general citizenry of the U.S. could be sold a series of wars, costing many lives and much treasure, that was not in their best interests.

I'm not buying what you're selling, and I am not going to waste my time by explaining for you in words of one syllable why your post is so fiendishly funny.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   23:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#657. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#655)

One of the events immediately after 9/11 was the 9/12 flyout of the Saudi Bin Ladin family PRIVATE JET back to Saudi Arabia.

It was the only private plane to fly in the entire nation that day.

The order to allow that civilian flight EXCEPTION during that historic flight restriction WHEN NO AMERICAN PRIVATE OR COMMERCIAL flights could fly came from whose authority?

Yes another piece in the puzzle that does not fit with the "Official Fairy Tale™".

No one has ever really given a convincing reason for it nor who gave the order and how fast it occurred. It is like one of Imus's "What doesn't fit and why?" routines.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-12   23:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#658. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, critter, X-15 (#656) (Edited)

And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced.

Oh, spare me. Of course to sell the suckers Osama, Tim Osman, Bin Laden has to be built up as this mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's "Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu". Of course wasting time on on this line of unreasoning is just that - a waste of time

Name one person who has publicly announced, over more than two decades, his visceral dislike of US policies, his subsequently inspired successful attacks around the world including and not limited to American military forces, the escalating nature of these attacks with each new "operation" being more complex and causing more casualties and damage than the last, and his 2004 prediction that America is headed towards bankruptcy which we're staring in the face 6 years later.

And all this is proceeding - including but not limited to bankruptcy and nation implosion - in spite of OBL's being a man without a state, without an army, and a will-of-the-wisp organization that has no formal base. And the ability to use pragmatic, low tech, effective tactics to make these killings and bombings work at minimal cost to his side and massive cost to the other side.

Instead of seeing this, as usual you're devoid of substantive arguments so you go to your principal tactic of windbaggy hyperbole and distortion. And warped English. Which you never hesitate to attribute to others instead of yourself.

I said "the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced."

You mistranslate these 11 simple English words into a grandiose hyperbole of "a mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's 'Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu'."

Where the fuck did you learn to speak English, anyway? What is the connection between these two disconnected phrases, one that I said, and one that you totally mis translate from it, then use to argue against your own misinterpretation, not anything I stated.

You're a pompous windbag who can't even stay on point or reply to specifics. Instead of lecturing me on English and dictionaries - which I'm far better at using than you - dial down your inflated wordy narcissistic replies and "Keep It Simple, Stupid."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-13   0:03:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#659. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, X-15, critter (#657) (Edited)

No one has ever really given a convincing reason for it nor who gave the order and how fast it occurred. It is like one of Imus's "What doesn't fit and why?" routines.

Yes they have, it's voluminously documented outside of the stagnant ponds holding k00kfluent, and as usual the Twoffertwits ignore anything that doesn't keep them in their go-nowhere "holding pattern" until they run out of fuel, crash and burn.

As of 11:00 EST on September 13, all US commercial airspace was cleared for normal operations, and the bin Laden family aircraft joined hundreds of other commercial aircraft resuming national and international flights. And not until the airspace was cleared for commercial traffic.

The bin Laden family did not get any preferential treatment. They had a flight plan and they were approved to follow it. Prior to departure some bin Ladin family members were questioned, however OBL had been separated from his family for over a decade, was subject to imprisonment if he went to Saudi, and there was no reason to believe he had active connections with anyone on board the departing flight.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-13   0:20:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#660. To: AGAviator (#658)

Hey stoogy

What's it like being a low-life bottom-feeding gov stooge? Have you made GS 5 yet?

I feel sorry for you, so watch the shows, I'll feel better

WWGPD? - (What Would General Pinochet Do?)

Flintlock  posted on  2010-07-13   0:20:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#661. To: Flintlock, buckeroo, turtle, X-15, critter (#660) (Edited)

I've never linked Jesse Ventura, Six Percent Loser .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-13   0:32:49 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#662. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, X-15, crittee (#653) (Edited)

As well a Stewardess call describing "Middle Eastern" passengers is again a "will o' the wisp" as when one analyzes it for actual information content it is simply a physical description with no other essential identifying information. "Middle Eastern" looking is such a large universe of individuals, well over a billion people, that it is at best nothing more than a starting point which tells us nothing as to the identity of the hijackers

There were 3 stewardess calls, not one. All gave seat numbers from which tickets could be tracked, then credit card purchases tracked, then buyers of tickets identified.

Regarding the "impossibility" of cell phone calls in airborne aircraft, as usual you're full of it.

The main reason for not having cell phone calls is the aircraft companies don't want miscellaneous private communications generating electromagnetic signals that could possibly interfere with sensitive aircraft navigation equipment and communications.

911 Conspiracy Theories

Marvin Sirbu, professor of engineering and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University said on September 14, 2001, that "The fact of the matter is that cell phones can work in almost all phases of a commercial flight."[118]

And ain't it a hoot that the same people who're claiming that anywhere between 10 and 100 tons of esoteric materials, detonated by unknown state-of-the-art methods which didn't leave a single trace, induced the 3 largest building failures in US history and 8 years later have still not revealed their working details.

But it's "impossible" that some passengers on an airborne jet couldn't take their simple cell phones with them into the plane lavatories and make some calls to their family members, which would make their family members liars if this didn't happen. No, cell phone technology simply isn't advanced for that to happen. But undefined "nano-thermite" technology can destroy entire buildings without leaving a single trace of how it actually functioned.

You're beyond stupid and pathetic.

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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-13   0:52:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#663. To: AGAviator (#661)

One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis.

======================================

Amounts of 'energy and effort?'

Try the longest and costliest war in America history.

U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY

HAPPY2BME-4UM  posted on  2010-07-13   0:53:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#664. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator, all (#653)

What do so called, technically impossible at the time, "cell phone calls*" have to do with how the FBI was able to identify 19 alleged hijackers by the afternoon of 9-12 whose names did not appear on the Passenger Manifests nor were their images captured on any Airport Surveillance Videos? The answer is of course nothing.

Easier than addressing your point though.


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-13   1:05:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#665. To: Original_Intent (#656)

AGGravator: It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran.

And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced.

Oh, spare me. Of course to sell the suckers Osama, Tim Osman, Bin Laden has to be built up as this mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's "Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu".

Osama Bin Goldstein.


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-13   1:06:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#666. To: Original_Intent, All (#665)

666

The number of the post.


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-13   1:13:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#667. To: wudidiz (#666)

The number of the post.

You beast!! lol

Uuuhhhggg.......this thread is an exercise in futility.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-13   1:17:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#668. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, all (#658)

Name one person who has publicly announced, over more than two decades, his visceral dislike of US policies, his subsequently inspired successful attacks around the world including and not limited to American military forces, the escalating nature of these attacks with each new "operation" being more complex and causing more casualties and damage than the last, and his 2004 prediction that America is headed towards bankruptcy which we're staring in the face 6 years later.

How charming. Lessee, is that the same Osama Bin Laden, one of the heirs to the Bin Laden fortune (whose brother Salem was a business partner of Geee Duhbya), was a CIA Contract Agent, and is Jewish by Talmudic Law? There are Americans who are just as critical of U.S. foreign policy as ol' Tim Osman and have made basically the same criticism of the perversion of our foreign policy. Are you expecting them to turn off NORAD, arrange cover exercises, and read "My Pet Goat" while their mind controlled slaves run remote controlled airplanes into buildings packed with demolition charges?

You are just too funny.

I said "the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced."

You mistranslate these 11 simple English words into a grandiose hyperbole of "a mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's 'Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu'."

Mr. Hyperbole meet Mr. Satire. Your comment was so deliciously "over the top" funny than I could not but meet it with an appropriate comparison.

Where the fuck did you learn to speak English, anyway?

In a good school, in a little hick town that had never heard of the "modern" curriculum and so as a consequence we were taught a different brand of English - Educated English.

...Instead of lecturing me on English and dictionaries - which I'm far better at using than you...

LOL! Please point out where I was lecturing you on "English and dictionaries"? Another of your hyperbolic confabulations. Just doing a quick count I have about 18 dictionaries (my current favorite is the Oxford American Dictionary) in my current collection, a couple of Atlases, two Historical Atlases, and a variety of other reference books including "Miss Manner's Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior" which I would highly commend to your reading list.

Have a jolly time old bean.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-13   1:22:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#669. To: abraxas (#667)


“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-13   1:29:14 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#670. To: wudidiz, AGAviator, all (#664) (Edited)

Me: What do so called, technically impossible at the time, "cell phone calls*" have to do with how the FBI was able to identify 19 alleged hijackers by the afternoon of 9-12 whose names did not appear on the Passenger Manifests nor were their images captured on any Airport Surveillance Videos? The answer is of course nothing.

wud: Easier than addressing your point though.

True. He's still twisting and turning and trying get me engaged in trying to refute his "Rent-a-Professor" on the cell calls. We could spend positively days debating the issue. Which he is welcome to do - he can play with himself.

I guess he thinks his disinfo tactics will allow him to get off the hook by trying to push the cell phone issue while evading the other. Ain't gonna happen.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-13   1:33:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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