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Title: Why I Don't Have Any Use for Truthers
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Published: Jul 9, 2010
Author: Turtle
Post Date: 2010-07-09 11:35:19 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 27512
Comments: 879
Poster Comment: This woman had sulfuric acid thrown in her face by guess who? Someone engaging in Typical Negro Behavior. They do this out of envy. "I can't get this woman, so nobody can have her." He got life in prison. These are the real problems, not hallucinations abour remote-controlled airplanes and bombs in towers.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 672.
#14. To: Turdle, Turtle, christine, AllTheKingsHorses, all (#0)
So Turdle, are you and Hal Turner close friends? Any handlers in common? Isn't it amazing what some people will do for money? Oh, by the way I've seen the blonde's picture before in a different context. The other readily apparent difference is that the ears are not the same. Ears are a distinctive feature on a lot of people. Despite the damage to her face they should bear at least some resemblance, but the structure is not at all the same. I notice also that you did not provide a URL source. I'm calling Bullshit unless you can provide a source Got Agitprop?
I notice also that you did not provide a URL source. I'm calling Bullshit unless you can provide a source Got Agitprop? Typical denial mode of a classic CT windbag fuckwit. Harping on minutiae, using self-proclaimed expertise to allege the evidence isn't credible, then using prefab denials citing self as authoritative expert, to dismiss the subject out of hand. And throwing in a little scatological dig ("Turdle") in the process. Here's the link, maroon. Now what do you have to say?
I can recall news reports of similar events, they are rare, where the perp was white. All this proves is that there is at least one deranged ex-boyfriend in the world. It proves absolutely nothing else. I take it you guys are trying to divert from the other thread where you had your heads handed to you on that stupid conspiracy theory about "19ArabsWhoHateUsCuzWe'reFree" being directed by a mad mullah in a cave in the remote mountains of far Afghanistan with his Magic Cellphone© that were able to hijack 4 airliners, without one of them giving a 4 digit 2 second hijack code, with box cutters and then leisurely joyride in the most controlled and monitored airspace on the planet and then with the precision of Master Pilots (which is pretty slick since they were all known incompetents as pilots and had never flown anything larger than a single engine propeller driven Cessna 172) fly them around for two hours without being intercepted, then with precision fly them into major buildings {and even more miraculously they able to take down 3 Buildings with 2 planes in new york - and presumably the "Psychic Friends Network was on the phone to both CNN and BBC as both reported the collapse of building 7 before it happened, as well despite a minimum of 13 warnings from other foreign intelligence agencies the government had no clue that such an event could be considered or possibly happen (as per White House Spokesliar Ari Fourflusher at a White House News Conference, despite having two years earlier recovered a hard drive from the Phillipines which detailed this exact scenario)}. You conspiracy kooks are just too rich.
dang it OI now you went and made the resident shill for the liar movement cry.
I had no idea he was so sensitive over the Psychic Friends Network. Honest.
Hey internet CT pushers! Did ya happen to know that over 6 times as many Americans (50%) believe that UFO aliens have abducted humans, than believe it was "very likely" that the WTC Towers were brought down by "secretly planted explosives (6%)?" Of course you didn't!!!!!!! That suuure is a select group of people you're included in. BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! Poll: U.S. Hiding Knowledge of [UFO] Aliens The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. • 77% "unlikely"
Of course you didn't!!!!!!! That suuure is a select group of people you're included in. BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!! The masses are usually mistaken ... as demonstrated by your post. Are you being paid to report this nonsense ?
Are you being paid to report this nonsense ? As far as being paid, again. No one pays good money to send a message to losers. The only places you're important are your own minds. As I've already said, you've had (1) Almost 9 years, (2) Thousands of websites, and (3) Billions of words, to make your case. Your results: Almost zero, with 6 times more people believing in UFO abductions, or Elvis sightings, than buy into the "USG controlled demolition" theories. You haven't persuaded anybody, and only serve the role of a freak circus sideshow from the existential questions the country needs to face.
OK, you win. Now I believe in UFOs. (NOT !)
ag must have been ass raped by a group of them there extra-tetesticles. that'll teach him to fish from docks on the mississippi after dark.
No little faggot bitch, it's you Six Percenters that are gonna get ass raped when your incessant blathering makes people sick and tired of you all. Just like 72-year old astrounaut Buzz Aldrin cold cocking a 36-year old Six Percenter twit who walked up to him demanding he swear on a Bible he walked on the moon, then ignored Aldrin's telling him to get out of his face, then called Aldrin a coward, liar, and thief. Better make sure your k00kblather stays on the Internet, that's all I've got to say.
cry with your straw-man argument, it is all you will ever have.
Me cry, Six Percenter? Who are the pinheads who live in a population that has many time more believers UFO abductions and Elvis sightings than in, "USG controlled demolitions brought down the WTC Buildings," and who have failed in nearly nine years to elect a single public official stating the 911 CT's are true? Or get a single Obama BC lawsuit to proceed to discovery and interrogatories, let alone trial. Or say "They're paying aggravator to post to us six percent losers?" No pinheads. I post to you because you attack me for trying to show you the truth. And for the lot of you being a circus freakshow taking attention from serious issues. The only ***crying*** you're ever gonna see from me is laughing so hard that tears come to my eyes.
More like 33 percenter, idiot. From Third of Americans suspect 9- 11 government conspiracy...
No loser, your inflated numbers include a large percentage believing that the USG did not participate in the attacks, but also did not do enough to prevent or stop them. The core issue remains "Did the USG itself direct and control the demolition of the WTC through controlled demolitions?" and to that an overwhelming majority says "No."
Go argue with Ohio University, they're the ones that did the survey. BTW, who performed YOUR survey, yourself? Did you ask the single moms in your GED class what they thought of 9/11?
No loser, your inflated numbers include a large percentage believing that the USG did not participate in the attacks, but also did not do enough to prevent or stop them. Go argue with Ohio University, they're the ones that did the survey. BTW, who performed YOUR survey, yourself Twofferk00ks infiltrate Bill Maher TV show, he kicks them out, audience applauds. To Twofferk00k in audience: Maher: "And you are a nut case, Building 7...Of all the things I've said...the one they protest about here is the people who think the World Trade Center was a controlled explosion. You see, in that instance I'm actually defending President Bush. I don't think President Bush brought down the World Trade Center." Audience: "Booooooo" Maher: "And cows disagree with me." Audience: Laughter and thunderous applause.
Are you thinking of calling "security" to "kick our asses" (out)? It won't work, trust me. :)
Nothing of the sort. However when you emerge from your own "7th century caves" on the internet, and publicly go after the people you anonymously trash on your k00kblogs, expect an unwelcome reception by the great majority of the American population. Because you are a minority, and an irrelevant one at that.
Irrelevant? :) That bring back memories from LP. I suggest you save us both some time and call me an anti-Semite and then insist the discussion is over and stalk off all in a huffy-huff..
Because you are a minority, and an irrelevant one at that Irrelevant? :) What would you prefer to call it? Zogby America Likely Voters 8/23/07 thru 8/27/07 MOE +/- 3.1 percentage points Pages 5 - 8 The first theory is the official story, and maintains that 19 Arab fundamentalists executed a surprise attack which caught US intelligence and military forces off guard. The second theory known as Let It Happen argues that certain elements in the US government knew the attacks were coming but consciously let them proceed for various political, military and economic motives; and The third theory Made It Happen contends that certain US government elements actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attacks. Based upon your knowledge of 9/11 events and their aftermath, which theory are you more likely to agree with? Official story........................ 639..... 63.6%
That is the correct story. It unfortunately leaves a lot of us with a sense that all the tax dollars pissed away on intelligence and military and associated services were absolutlely flushed down the toilet. And when you couple the FACT that all of the 19 terrorists were here illegally, you wonder who is asleep at the wheel or is anyone really there. Of course, immediately afterwards, the US government creates the US Patriot Act permitting eavesdrops on US citizens without court orders and other domestic spying activities and called "new tools" which clearly violate our individual rights and liberties ..... and there is even more .... create two war efforts (although Iraq was illegal) that later shows even more absurd blunders by the US military /intelligence when not one WMD was discovered .... and then leads to a consolidation of the intelligence services within a new umbrella organization tucked under "Homeland security." Meanwhile, all this wasted money has done nothing with the singular exception of expanding the US government .... pissing away more dollars. The American government is a laff a minute. It is reminiscent of the old slap-stick comedy team, "the Three Stooges."
Buckeroo. Why didn't Andrews Air Force Base Respond? Oh that is right they just happened to be sent out over the atlantic ocean that day. Then sept 12 their website just happened to change their misson statement of protecting their area. I have some holy water to sell you. It costs just a thousand dollars and you are guaranteed to get to meet God. /end sarcasm
The US Air Force's primary task has always been to protect the US from foreign attack, not from hijacked domestic civil aircraft. All commercial traffic within the US is under control of the FAA, not the US military. This means that any request for the Air Force to patrol or police the internal US civilian air traffic must come from and through the FAA. At the time of the hijackings there were several thousand aircraft in the air, over US air space. Those several thousand planes had to be landed and given orderly instructions and routes, and then tracked, to get down without crashing. Air traffic control of thousands of planes simultaneously without any advance notice is not done like musical chairs where you just grab the nearest seat and damn any consequences. There has to be an ordered emergency procedure which takes a number of minutes to clear the skies. All aircraft, even hostile military aircraft, normally use transponders to show their locations to their own sides. The hostile aircraft can turn off their transponders once inside hostile territory, but then run the risk of getting shot down by any of their own support craft once they do this. So frequently it is possible to identify hostile aircraft through transponders, which is much easier than trying to track a few objects hundreds of miles away with weak radar signals, scattered among thousands of aircraft with strong transponder signals. However the transponders of all 4 hijacked aircraft were turned off immediately after they were taken over so they were much harder to track. All this "Conspiracy! The USAF didn't instantly know where all the hijacked planes with no transponder signals were!" are products of the usual suspects - internet rubes with zero knowledge of the subject matter, in this case aviation.
If you think you're fooling anyone other than buck, stone or turtle, you're mistaken. The Airforce could have and would have dealt with the "hijacked" planes if the order had been given. The order wasn't given.
You clearly know nothing about aviation procedures or the facts on the ground on that day, before, during, and after the hijackings. Tell me how many hours you have as a pilot.
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As opposed to chiming in with sarcasm on occasion, why not add some facts to support your doubts and suspicions? It will make you feel like an accomplished poster!
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WT-7 was falling from the concussion of the twin towers. Why do you think that was made up?
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Can you counter the perspective with FACTS as opposed to emotional trauma and silly accusations pointed at me?
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Sounds as if all you've done is gobbled up every bit of "official" party line bullshit was available. Look, quit wasting my time! Have your last post and let's call this thread. f I will say this, if you cannot see the connections between the state of the U.S. today and 9/11, then you aren't very bright or simply haven't done any serious independent homework, and unfortunately for you I'm responsible for neither. Point a hotlink for my viewing pleasure about your "FACTS."
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No hotlink for me before your beddy-bye? Geewhiz........... maybe tomorrow or the next day or sometime in the remote future.
That boy needs to he harpooned Where's Queequeg when you need him?
LOL I presented a "Over the Rainbow" song for Eric. I wish him well. Are you going to say that the 9-11 terrorist bombing is a direct result of and about the US government?
Absolutely! 911 was clearly an inside job. I read the PNAC documents years ago. The neocons would have done ANYTHING to get us involved in a land war in the ME and they did.
Oh c'mon, not you too. I can't believe some of the brightest here on 4um could actually suggest they believe that theory. Now, I can understand sentiment about the government having indirect capability. But, that is because of ineptitude, blunders and too much political BS. But this is no reason to believe the government in any branch or level would commit an act of treason and tyranny and outright murder and destruction costing the US taxpayer trillions upon trillions of dollars. Can you realistically cite one serious qualified witness about all this tragedy that government was complicit in a planning activity for 911?
Witness or investigator? Yeah, Jesse Ventura But not now or on this thread. Gov shill boy has spammed it up and nobody is ever going to read it. Lets just say they couldn't find the "black boxes" (Ventura did) but they COULD find some patsy's passport (ink still wet no doubt). LOL, yeah, right. Some guy with only flight simulator time executes a perfect 30+ degree (aerobatic) turn after finding the building, then scores a bulls-eye?. Yeah, right, LOL There's a lot more but I hate wasting my time on this thread.
Six Percenter now saying that NORAD transcripts contradicting back of the envelope NORAD airspeed k00kulations are spam. Surprise!
Hey kOOKaNuTTer, if you travel 130 miles, and the travel time is 25 minutes, how fast are you going?
I already gave you timetable saying the max time between notification and crashes was 8 minutes, not 25, and the fighters were over the Atlantic and unable to get precise vectors to what or where they were supposed to be intercepting, due to transponders not transmitting IFF's.
And your timetable is garbage. Entity Tags: 9/11 Commission, Kevin Nasypany, Alan Scott, Larry Arnold, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Langley Air Force Base, US Department of Defense, Northeast Air Defense Sector Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline Entity Tags: Brad Derrig, Alan Scott, Craig Borgstrom, Dean Eckmann, Langley Air Force Base, Larry Arnold Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline Entity Tags: Craig McKinley, Larry Arnold, Craig Borgstrom Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline Entity Tags: Norfolk Terminal Radar Approach Control, Dean Eckmann, Michael Strother Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline Entity Tags: Ronald Vauk, Kevin Shaeffer, Nancy McKeown Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline
The fundamental problem with YOUR post is that there is an assumption of guilt or conspiracy about the activities to scramble a few jet fighters in the face of an actual terror exposition. All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America. You have not shown any indication of any planning, execution, logistics, funding and later cover-ups by the many people it would take to within the government to create this issue. Not even one INSIDER witness that should have come forward by now. You fail, dude.
I am simply showing the CLAIMED NORAD response, not even MENTIONING the case of misguided radar blips, war games were in play, and the foreknowledge that morning that jets had already impacted the WTC. Washington was ALREADY on alert, yet some half assed smoke and mirrors show was staged from Langley AFB, rather than the WASHINGTON DC AFB ie, ANDREWS, where they had TWO FUCKING SQUADRONS of alert aircraft ready for immediate launch, yet DIDN'T even though they KNEW a rogue airliner was on it's way from Ohio. And yet we were once able to knock down waves of Soviet bombers at a moments notice. Either they spent every penny in the way of tax dollars up their noses, or they are SERIOUSLY playing us as true suckers, in more ways than one.
Mere BUMBLING based upon a surprise attack from illegal aliens. IF the government (any branch of service, level of government or payment to a contractor) had some connection you would see it by now; nine years later. In fact, IF the US government had intended to create a war in the ME such as Iraq based upon 911 (which is often suggested) you would have seen MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WMD FOUND, IDENTIFIED AND SUBMITTED PUBLICKLY to not just the US taxpayers but the whole world. Instead, the scenario in Iraq was ... America fucked upped. You see, America doesn't have the capability to plan and execute these plans. All America can do is perform knee-jerk reactions.
They weren't ilegal, they had visas and all that. In fact, it wasn't even the ones they claim, since more than a few of them are still FUCKING ALIVE.
Everyone of the 19 terrorists identified by the State Department and the FBI were in the USA based upon fraudulent documents. Not one of them were here legally. There was no research by the US government... NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.... it was all rubber stamped by sleepy US government workers not executing their responsibilities correctly according to process and procedure.
Tracking the 19 Hijackers What are they up to now? At least 9 of them survived 9/11
Hijackers in the September 11 Attacks These cases, however, turned out to be instances of mistaken identity.[30][31] Saudi Official: 15 of 19 Hijackers Were Saudi "The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."
So who ARE the hijackers then, since those they claimed were the hijackers are still alive and report that their passports were lost or stolen?
Although the USG says the hijackers entered the US on legal passports, it wouldn't be surprising if some tried to cover their tracks somehow by taking the names, possibly even ID's, of people who resembled them. Though the Saudis say this didn't happen. Also there are Arabic names very common among many people, similar to "John Smith" in the US. So one "Mohammed So and So" can have another person with the same name but a be different person and from a different family. Finally aren't consistent translations of Arabic to English. Just the first name "Muhammed" can be spelled "Muhammad," "Mohammed," "Mahmud," etc and all these will show up separately in a computer which is very picky about spelling and treats each spelling of the same name as a separate person. Similar spelling variations exist for many different other first and last names. Since Arabic does not use the Latin alphabet there isn't a perfect overlap between the 2 languages and their spelling and pronunciation conventions. So there is room for different name variations especially when done by clerical level people not focusing on their job's details.
While there are many Smith or Jones in the US, not all have the same street address, occupation, and photo. The alleged hijackers share not only the same name, but street address, occupation, and photo as the people who are still alive. In other words, they are the same people.
Why did the Saudi government first deny, then later acknowlge to US media that 15 out of 19 hijackers, accused of executing suicide attacks that totally shocked most Westerners, were Saudis, if they weren't. What possible benefit could they get from saying this? Then 6 years later GW Bush himself said the same, then quickly trying to gloss it over adding you can't judge an entire country by the actions of a few people - though he did precisely that with Iraq and Afghanistan. What benefit does the USG get when its leader states the terrorist attackers are from an ally, not some madmen, and not from an invaded country?
Why did the Saudi government first deny, then later acknowlge to US media that 15 out of 19 hijackers, accused of executing suicide attacks that totally shocked most Westerners, were Saudis, if they weren't. What possible benefit could they get from saying this? You'd have to ask them, but if I were to guess, it's because they didn't fear any repercussions if they went along with the story... What it comes down to is that dead men don't walk and talk, and that's what these so-called hijackers are doing.
And of course never addressed by AGGravator is that the FBI had identified all 19 by 9-12 and yet none of those names show up on the passenger manifests, nor are there any videos of any of them boarding the flights used for the Op.
Being trained by a spooky muslim outfit, no less. Shivers...
They were Magic Muslims and were protected from being seen on the Airport Surveillance Video because Osama Ben Forgotten waved his Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.
It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran. And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced. OBL has lost tactical battles here and there, but is fully proceeding on his strategic plan to catalyze the economic collapse of America ala the former Soviet Union, instigate the collapse of America's leading role as a principal determinant in world affairs, and cause America end up with a fragmented society within which further attacks will be possible. OBL has never claimed to be the head of a major force. He sees al Qaida as providing motivating, ideological, and sometimes logistical support where needed. There is no evidence he is dead, and people who have known him far better than the TV and intenet fixated boobs, say he is war-gaming the next associates' attacks to be even more spectacular than the 911 incidents. And following his past forms, he has given public warning which he believes he is obligated by the Koran to do. Just as he gave continuing warnings about 911 after the 1998 destructions of the 2 US African embassies. And he is in no great rush, not wishing his acolytes to make the same mistakes which caused the 911 attacks to be less than 100% successful as planned. 2008: OBL Planning Greater Attacks Against US And, a former senior Yemeni al-Qaeda operative said, the terrorist organisation has entered a "positive phase", reinforcing specific training camps around the world that will lead the next "wave of action" against the West. The warning, on the front page of an Arabic newspaper published in London, Al- Quds Al-Arabi - and reported widely in the major Italian papers - quotes a person described as being "very close to al-Qaeda" in Yemen. The paper is edited by Abdel al-Bari Atwan, who is said to have been the last journalist to interview bin Laden, in 1996. Bin Laden is himself closely following preparations for an attack against the US and aims to "change the face of world politics and economics", the report says. The former operative is quoted as saying that "this will be shown by the fact that we now control a major part of the south of Somalia". He says he remains in contact with current chiefs of the organisation in Yemen and that, only six months ago, bin Laden sent a message to all jihad cells in the Arab world, asking them not to interact with their governments or local political parties The source also said that, during the next few days, the terrorist organisation might send a sign of its violent intentions. The warning has emerged at the same time as publication of a report leaked to London's Telegraph newspaper, which reveals that a document drawn up by the intelligence branch of the Ministry of Defence says that thousands of extremists are active in Britain. The document says the operatives are predominantly British-born and aged between 18 and 30. Many are believed to have been trained in overseas terrorist camps. Security officials are convinced al-Qaeda cells will attempt another "spectacular" inside Britain with major transport centres, such as airports and train stations, the most likely targets,
AGGravator: It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran. And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced. Oh, spare me. Of course to sell the suckers Osama, Tim Osman, Bin Laden has to be built up as this mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's "Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu". Of course wasting time on on this line of unreasoning is just that - a waste of time because I am not disputing that Osama Bin Laden was not a very intelligent man. What I am disputing is that he did not have the wherewithal to pull off this monstrous Psychological Operation to create a Psychological Framework where the general citizenry of the U.S. could be sold a series of wars, costing many lives and much treasure, that was not in their best interests. I'm not buying what you're selling, and I am not going to waste my time by explaining for you in words of one syllable why your post is so fiendishly funny.
And the single most lethal enemy mind the US has ever faced. Oh, spare me. Of course to sell the suckers Osama, Tim Osman, Bin Laden has to be built up as this mythical figure on par with Sax Rohmer's "Villainous Dr. Fu Manchu". Osama Bin Goldstein.
The number of the post.
You beast!! lol Uuuhhhggg.......this thread is an exercise in futility.
Most excellent. Consider it stolen.
There are no replies to Comment # 672. End Trace Mode for Comment # 672.
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#21. To: turtle, Original_Intent, buckeroo (#14)
(Edited)
The other readily apparent difference is that the ears are not the same. Ears are a distinctive feature on a lot of people. Despite the damage to her face they should bear at least some resemblance, but the structure is not at all the same.
#24. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, X-15, wudidiz, James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turdle, christine, all (#21)
(Edited)
......
#100. To: Original_Intent (#24)
#121. To: IRTorqued (#100)
dang it OI now you went and made the resident shill for the liar movement cry.
#129. To: Original_Intent, IRTorqued, critter, buckeroo, turtle (#121)
(Edited)
so sensitive over the Psychic Friends Network. Honest.
Sixty- four percent of the respondents said that aliens have contacted humans,
Half said they've abducted humans, and
37 percent said they have contacted the U.S. government. The collapse of the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings"
• 10% "somewhat likely"
• 6% "very likely"[13]
#130. To: AGAviator (#129)
Did ya happen to know that over 6 times as many Americans (50%) believe that UFO aliens have abducted humans, than believe it was "very likely" that the WTC Towers were brought down by "secretly planted explosives (6%)?"
#150. To: noone222, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#130)
The masses are usually mistaken ... as demonstrated by your post.
#164. To: AGAviator (#150)
#190. To: noone222 (#164)
#219. To: IRTorqued (#190)
ag must have been ass raped by a group of them there extra-tetesticles. that'll teach him to fish from docks on the mississippi after dark.
#236. To: AGAviator (#219)
#241. To: IRTorqued, turtle, buckeroo (#236)
cry with your straw-man argument
#263. To: AGAviator (#241)
Me cry, Six Percenter?
More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.
#268. To: FormerLurker (#263)
From Third of Americans suspect 9- 11 government conspiracy...
#278. To: AGAviator (#268)
No loser, your inflated numbers include a large percentage believing that the USG did not participate in the attacks, but also did not do enough to prevent or stop them.
#323. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#278)
(Edited)
#324. To: AGAviator (#323)
#328. To: Dakmar (#324)
Are you thinking of calling "security" to "kick our asses" (out)? It won't work, trust me. :)
#329. To: AGAviator (#328)
Because you are a minority, and an irrelevant one at that
#338. To: Dakmar (#329)
(Edited)
402. There are three main schools of thought regarding the 9/11 attacks.
Let it happen....................... 266...... 26.4%
Made it happen..................... 46....... 4.6%
NS....................................... 54........ 5.4%
Total..................................1006... 100.0%
#359. To: AGAviator (#338)
The first theory is the official story, and maintains that 19 Arab fundamentalists executed a surprise attack which caught US intelligence and military forces off guard.
#360. To: buckeroo (#359)
#364. To: A K A Stone, buckeroo, (#360)
(Edited)
Buckeroo. Why didn't Andrews Air Force Base Respond?
#376. To: AGAviator, *9-11* (#364)
#379. To: wudidiz (#376)
(Edited)
The Airforce could have and would have dealt with the "hijacked" planes if the order had been given
#384. To: AGAviator, All (#379)
#399. To: Eric Stratton, AGAviator (#384)
Otherwise, fine, have it your way, there was no coverup, no hurry to dispense with evidence, all of the firefighters and police on video were obviously delusional all day long, and our Government can be fully trusted.
#408. To: buckeroo, All (#399)
#411. To: Eric Stratton (#408)
#419. To: buckeroo (#411)
#426. To: Eric Stratton (#419)
You're a fool if you believe that, an honest to goodness fucking rube!
#430. To: buckeroo (#426)
#434. To: Eric Stratton (#430)
I've done that, can you please do some fucking independent research!
#436. To: buckeroo (#434)
#440. To: Eric Stratton (#436)
(Edited)
#456. To: buckeroo (#440)
#458. To: Flintlock (#456)
#459. To: buckeroo (#458)
Are you going to say that the 9-11 terrorist bombing is a direct result of and about the US government?
#462. To: Flintlock (#459)
911 was clearly an inside job.
#473. To: buckeroo (#462)
Can you realistically cite one serious qualified witness about all this tragedy that government was complicit in a planning activity for 911?
#478. To: buckeroo, Flintlock (#473)
Spammed it up and nobody is ever going to read it.
#483. To: AGAviator (#478)
#491. To: FormerLurker (#483)
(Edited)
Hey kOOKaNuTTer, if you travel 130 miles, and the travel time is 25 minutes, how fast are you going?
#514. To: AGAviator (#491)
I already gave you timetable saying the max time between notification and crashes was 8 minutes, not 25, and the fighters were over the Atlantic and unable to get precise vectors to what or where they were supposed to be intercepting due to transponders not transmitting IFF's.
Fighters Launched in Response to Flight 77? - In later testimony, military officials will give contradictory explanations for why the Langley F- 16s are scrambled. An early NORAD timeline will indicate the fighters are launched in response to NORAD being notified at 9:24 that Flight 77 has been hijacked (see (9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001] Colonel Alan Scott, the former vice commander of the Continental US NORAD Region (CONR), will suggest the same, telling the 9/11 Commission: 60;At 9:24 the FAA reports a possible hijack of [Flight] 77.70; And at that moment as well is when the Langley F-16s were scrambled out of Langley.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003; 1st Air Force, 8/8/2006] And a timeline provided by senior Defense Department officials to CNN will state, 60;NORAD orders jets scrambled from Langley61; in order to 60;head to intercept61; Flight 77. [CNN, 9/17/2001]
In Response to Flight 93? - However, Major General Larry Arnold, the CONR commander, will give a different explanation. He will tell the 9/11 Commission, 60;we launched the aircraft out of Langley to put them over top of Washington, DC, not in response to American Airline 77, but really to put them in position in case United 93 were to head that way.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]
In Response to Incorrect Report about Flight 11? - In 2004, the 9/11 Commission will dispute both these previous explanations, and conclude that the Langley jets are scrambled in response to an incorrect report that Flight 11 is still airborne and heading toward Washington, DC (see 9:21 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 26-27; 9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 15 
] Tape recordings of the NEADS operations floor will corroborate this account. [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006] According to the 9/11 Commission, its conclusion is also confirmed by 60;taped conversations at FAA centers; contemporaneous logs compiled at NEADS, Continental Region headquarters, and NORAD; and other records.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 34] Major Nasypany will tell the Commission that the reason the Langley jets are directed toward the Baltimore area is to position them between the reportedly southbound Flight 11 and Washington, as a 60;barrier cap.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27 and 461] John Farmer, senior counsel to the 9/11 Commission, will later suggest that NORAD deliberately misled Congress and the Commission by hiding the fact that the Langley scramble takes place in response to the erroneous report that Flight 11 is still airborne. He will write that the mistaken report 60;appears in more logs, and on more tapes, than any other single event that morning.70; It was the reason for the Langley scramble; it had triggered the Air Threat Conference Call. Yet it had never been disclosed; it was, instead, talked around.61; [Farmer, 2009, pp. 266-267]
Conflicting Times - Early news reports will put the time of the scramble order slightly later than the 9/11 Commission places it, between 9:25 and 60;about 9:27.61; [Washington Post, 9/12/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001; CNN, 9/19/2001] But a NORAD timeline released a week after the attacks will give the same time as the Commission does, of 9:24. [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
(9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Langley Jets Take off, but Are Delayed during Launch
Captain Craig Borgstrom. [Source: US Air Force / Austin Knox]The three F-16 fighter jets ordered to scramble from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001) take off and, radar data will show, are airborne by 9:30 a.m. [North American Aerospace Defense Command, 9/18/2001; Christian Science Monitor, 4/16/2002; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Delayed during Launch - Major Dean Eckmann will recall that, after receiving the scramble order, he and the two other pilots have 60;a pretty quick response time. I believe it was four to five minutes we were airborne from that point.61; [BBC, 9/1/2002] According to the 1st Air Force57;s book about 9/11, the three fighters are 60;given highest priority over all other air traffic at Langley Air Force Base61; as they are launching. [Filson, 2003, pp. 63] But, according to author Lynn Spencer, in spite of this, the jets are delayed. As Eckmann is approaching the runway, he calls the control tower for clearance to take off, but the tower controller tells him, 60;Hold for an air traffic delay.61; Air traffic controllers at the FAA57;s Washington Center 60;have not had time to clear airliners out of the way for the northerly heading. Dozens of aircraft at various altitudes fill the jets57; route.61; After having to wait two minutes, Eckmann complains: 60;We57;re an active air scramble. We need to go now!61; Finally, the tower controller tells him, 60;Roger, Quit flight is cleared for takeoff, 090 for 60,61; meaning the fighters are to fly due east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001).
Taking Off - The three jets launch 15 seconds apart, with Eckmann in front and the two other jets following. [Spencer, 2008, pp. 143-144] Pilot Craig Borgstrom will later recall, 60;[W]e took off, the three of us, and basically the formation we always brief on alert, we57;ll stay in a two- to three-mile trail from the guy in front.61; [Filson, 2003, pp. 63] According to the BBC, the pilots get a signal over their planes57; transponders, indicating an emergency wartime situation. [BBC, 9/1/2002]
Could Reach Washington before Pentagon Attack - F-16s have a maximum speed of 1,500 mph at high altitude, or 915 mph at sea level, so the three fighters could plausibly travel the 130 miles from Langley Air Force Base to Washington in just minutes. [Chant, 1987, pp. 404; Associated Press, 6/16/2000; USA Today, 9/16/2001; Washington Post, 9/16/2001 ; US Air Force, 10/2007] Major General Larry Arnold, the commanding general of NORAD57;s Continental US Region, will tell the 9/11 Commission, 60;I think if those aircraft had gotten airborne immediately, if we were operating under something other than peacetime rules, where they could have turned immediately toward Washington, DC, and gone into burner, it is physically possible that they could have gotten over Washington61; before 9:37, when the Pentagon is hit. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] Yet according to the 9/11 Commission, the jets are redirected east over the Atlantic Ocean and will be 150 miles from the Pentagon when it is hit (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Conflicting Times - Some early news reports after 9/11 will say the Langley jets take off at the later time of 9:35 a.m. [Washington Post, 9/12/2001; CNN, 9/14/2001; Washington Post, 9/15/2001; CNN, 9/17/2001] But according to Colonel Alan Scott, the former vice commander of the Continental US NORAD Region, though the jets are airborne at 9:30, the report of this does not come down until 9:35, so this fact may account for the conflicting times. [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Langley Fighters Fly East over Ocean instead of North toward Washington
Route of the Langley Air Base fighters to Washington. [Source: Yvonne Vermillion/ MagicGraphix.com]The three F-16s that took off from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia (see (9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001) head east, out over the Atlantic Ocean, instead of north toward the Baltimore area, as NORAD57;s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) instructed when it issued the scramble order (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001). [New York Times, 11/15/2001; 9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
Three Reasons Jets Head East - The 9/11 Commission will give three reasons why the Langley jets go east instead of north: 60;First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target57;s location. Second, a 56;generic57; flight plan52;prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly52;incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles. Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go 56;090 for 6057; superseded the original scramble order.61; [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27]
NORAD Commander Blames 'Peacetime Rules' - In his testimony before the 9/11 Commission in May 2003, Larry Arnold, the commanding general of NORAD57;s Continental US Region, will address the question of why the Langley jets head out over the sea. He says, 60;When we scramble an aircraft70; the aircraft take off and they have a predetermined departure route.61; According to Arnold, NORAD is 60;looking outward,61; and so 60;our mission, unlike law enforcement57;s mission, is to protect things coming towards the United States.61; He concludes, 60;So our peacetime procedures, to de-conflict with civil aviation57;s, so as to not have endanger[ed] civil aviation in any particular way.61; Arnold will also suggest that 60;peacetime rules61; might be partly to blame for the Langley jets heading in the wrong direction. He says, 60;[I]f we were operating under something other than peacetime rules70; they could have turned immediately toward Washington, DC.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003] According to the Wall Street Journal, the 60;peacetime rules61; Arnold refers to are 60;noise restrictions requiring that [the Langley jets] fly more slowly than supersonic speed and take off over water, pointed away from Washington.61; [Wall Street Journal, 3/22/2004 ] One of the Langley pilots, Captain Craig Borgstrom, will later recall that, shortly after the jets take off, NEADS 60;gave us max- subsonic,61; which is 60;as fast as you can go without breaking the sound barrier.61; [Filson, 2003, pp. 65]
Risk of Midair Collision - NORAD official Major General Craig McKinley will tell the 9/11 Commission that 60;another reason why61; the Langley jets are 60;vectored east originally61; is that 60;the air traffic over the Northeast corridor is so complex that to just launch fighters70; into that air traffic system can cause potential damage or midair collision. So we rely on the FAA to de-conflict those corridors.61; [9/11 Commission, 5/23/2003]
Jets Far Away from Pentagon - When the Pentagon is hit at 9:37 a.m., the Langley jets have flown nearly 60 miles out over the ocean and are 150 miles from Washington (see 9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 27; Spencer, 2008, pp. 151]9:31 a.m.- 9:33 a.m. September 11, 2001: Norfolk Approach Control Handles Langley Jets, but Does Not Redirect Them to Correct Heading
The Norfolk Tower TRACON. [Source: Federal Aviation Administration]The FAA57;s Norfolk Terminal Radar Approach Control (TRACON) is briefly in charge of the three F- 16s launched from Langley Air Force Base (see (9:25 a.m.- 9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001), but it does not redirect them northward in line with the military57;s orders, after the Langley air traffic control tower previously instructed them to fly east. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 ]
Jets Sent East instead of North - When NORAD57;s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) issued the scramble order (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001), it specified that the Langley jets be directed north toward Washington, DC. But as the jets were taking off, the Langley tower instructed them to go 60;090 for 60,61; meaning they were to fly east for 60 miles (see (9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; Spencer, 2008, pp. 142-143]
TRACON Does Not Redirect Jets - When aircraft take off from Langley Air Force Base, control of them is passed from the Langley tower to the Norfolk TRACON. [9/11 Commission, 10/6/2003 ] Controllers at the TRACON are permitted to change an aircraft57;s flight plan, in the case of the Langley jets the 60;090 for 6061; instruction. [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 ] A 9/11 Commission memorandum will state that the Langley jets are 60;not bound to the 60 mile distance and could have turned to the north at any time they were directed to or had orders to do so.61; [9/11 Commission, 10/6/2003 ] However, although the TRACON is aware that NEADS ordered the jets to head north, it does not redirect them toward this heading instead of going east. [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 ] According to the 9/11 Commission, the reason is that 60;both the lead Langley pilot,61; Major Dean Eckmann, 60;and the FAA57;s Norfolk TRACON facility70; assumed the flight plan instruction to go 56;090 for 6057; was newer guidance that superseded the original scramble order instructions61; issued by NEADS. [9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 ]
Pilot Agrees to Follow Tower's Directions - At 9:33, Norfolk TRACON controller Michael Strother asks Eckmann what direction he wants to head in. Strother says, 60;Quit 2-5, are you going directly to the Langley 090 at 60?61; If Eckmann wanted to go somewhere other than what is specified in the flight plan, Strother has the authority to grant the request. But Eckmann replies, 60;Affirmative.61; He says, 60;That57;s our second clearance,61; and, referring to the NEADS scramble order, adds, 60;We had an earlier clearance of a vector and an altitude.61; The 9/11 Commission will summarize, 60;Put simply, the Langley pilots received flight direction guidance from both the scramble order and the Langley AFB departure flight plan, and continued on the latter heading for several minutes until a direction and geographic destination was provided.61; [9/11 Commission, 12/1/2003 ; 9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; 9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 96 ]
Navy Facility Takes over Control of Jets - Norfolk TRACON subsequently passes control of the three F-16s on to 60;Giant Killer,61; the Fleet Area Control and Surveillance Facility in Virginia Beach, Virginia. This is the Navy air traffic control agency that handles all over-water military operations. [New York Times, 2/10/1997; 9/11 Commission, 2004; 9/11 Commission, 1/9/2004; Spencer, 2008, pp. 143] It will not be until around the time the Pentagon is hit that the Langley jets are redirected to their correct heading (see 9:36 a.m. September 11, 2001), after NEADS notices they are going in the wrong direction (see 9:34 a.m. September 11, 2001). [Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006; Spencer, 2008, pp. 149-151] 9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001: Navy Command Center Employees Killed While Trying to Get More Fighters Launched
)
Diagram showing the area of impact at the Pentagon. The Navy Command Center is highlighted in red. [Source: Washington Post] (click image to enlarge)Edward Earhart, Matthew Flocco, and their supervisor Lt. Nancy McKeown are inside the Pentagon, watching the televised footage of the burning World Trade Center. They belong to a small meteorological unit based in the Navy Command Center, located on the first floor of the building57;s southwest face. McKeown asks her two young aides to bring up New York on the computer because the Command Center is going to send some fighter jets there, in case there is another attack on the city. She orders them to program weather updates for military aircraft converging on New York. However, very soon after this, the Command Center is directly impacted when the Pentagon is hit, and both Flocco and Earhart are killed. [Washington Post, 9/16/2001; Reader's Digest, 9/2002; CNN, 9/8/2002; Newsday, 4/12/2006] Ronald Vauk, the watch commander in the Navy Command Center, is on the phone trying to get more fighters scrambled at the time the Pentagon is hit, though news reports say he wants them to protect Washington, not New York. [John Hopkins Magazine, 11/2001; New York Times, 11/17/2001; Baltimore Sun, 9/11/2002] At 9:24 a.m., NORAD had ordered fighters at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to scramble (see 9:24 a.m. September 11, 2001), though these will not arrive over the Pentagon until after it is hit (see (Between 9:49 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004] According to Lt. Kevin Shaeffer, who works in the Command Center, just prior to the attack on the Pentagon, the watch section and watch leaders in the center are actively engaged in logging and recording the events going on in New York. He later says, 60;they all responded in exactly the way they were trained,61; and, 60;Had the Command Center not been destroyed it surely would have been able to provide the highest levels of our Navy leadership with updates as to exactly what was occurring.61; [Chips, 3/2003]
#525. To: FormerLurker (#514)
#536. To: buckeroo (#525)
All you are doing is showing bumbling and ineptitude from the top down and the bottom up from an attack in America. You have not shown any indication of any planning, execution, logistics, funding and later cover-ups by the many people it would take to within the government to create this issue. Not even one INSIDER witness that should have come forward by now.
#543. To: FormerLurker (#536)
I am simply showing the CLAIMED NORAD response,
#544. To: buckeroo (#543)
Mere BUMBLING based upon a surprise attack from illegal aliens.
#547. To: FormerLurker (#544)
They weren't ilegal, they had visas and all that.
#556. To: buckeroo (#547)
#628. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#556)
Tracking the 19 Hijackers What are they up to now? At least 9 of them survived 9/11
Shortly after the attacks and before the FBI had released the pictures of all the hijackers, several reports appeared claiming that some of the men named as hijackers on 9/11 were alive, and were feared to have been victims of identity theft.[27][28][29]
Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
#632. To: AGAviator (#628)
These cases, however, turned out to be instances of mistaken identity
#639. To: FormerLurker (#632)
So who ARE the hijackers then, since those they claimed were the hijackers are still alive and report that their passports were lost or stolen?
#641. To: AGAviator (#639)
(Edited)
Finally aren't consistent translations of Arabic to English. Just the first name "Muhammed" can be spelled "Muhammad," "Mohammed," "Mahmud," etc and all these will show up separately in a computer which is very picky about spelling and treats each spelling of the same name as a separate person. Similar spelling variations exist for many different other first and last names.
#643. To: FormerLurker (#641)
In other words, they are the same people.
#644. To: AGAviator (#643)
(Edited)
#645. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#644)
#646. To: Original_Intent (#645)
#647. To: Dakmar (#646)
#652. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#647)
(Edited)
Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.
Osama bin Laden is planning an attack against the United States that will "outdo by far" September 11, 2001, an Arab newspaper in London has reported.
Other targets include the Houses of Parliament, Whitehall and Buckingham and St James' palaces, with the threat level described as "severe". Right now they're shoring up their base. They're in no hurry, just as from 1998 to 2001 there wasn't much activity until the day of action occurred.
#656. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, all (#652)
Me: ...Magick Cell Phone in the air THREE TIMES in the vastness of the remote caves of Tora Bora.
#665. To: Original_Intent (#656)
AGGravator: It is your own cultural backwardness, hubris, and ignorance, which projects a "cave dweller" mentality onto Bin Laden, when OBL is in fact an ascetic, extremely intelligent and disciplined, and religiously dogmatic per his own interpretations of Koran.
#666. To: Original_Intent, All (#665)
666
#667. To: wudidiz (#666)
The number of the post.
#669. To: abraxas (#667)
#672. To: wudidiz (#669)
Replies to Comment # 672.