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Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 23787
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
(1 image)
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#98. To: AGAviator (#95)
There was ONE call from Barbara Olson, and it lasted 0 seconds, meaning that it was disconnected immediately. Ted Olson changed his story several times, from cell phone to airphone and then back to cell phone, depending on what the latest reports were on what was possible and what wasn't.
Thing is, they shut down the flight data recorder when they shut down the engines between flights, so the FDR normally wouldn't record the door opening.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Nearly every flight I've ever taken I've seen flight attendants enter the cockpit. Also, when the crew needs to use the WC they have to open the door, right? So, if there is evidence of the door being opened prior to takeoff (thereby showing that the switch was working) but not opened in flight it puts the "explainers" in a precarious position, wouldn't you say?
i gotta say- your tolerance & relentlessness with these people are very impressive. yeesh!
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 i'm not sure that all the detail is necessary.. to the average person, one could comment 'buildings don't explode like that from airplanes' & get instant agreement. sort of like the vomit colored tic tac toe like grids in the sky.... yeah sure they're normal?? lol. all of it's nonsense; as for the few who still buy it? pity them!!
"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13 Nearly every flight I've ever taken I've seen flight attendants enter the cockpit. Also, when the crew needs to use the WC they have to open the door, right? Not according to a large group of pilots, who state that it's common for pilots to use the bathroom prior to getting into the cockpit, bring their own lunches with them, and keep the door closed during flight. Also, it may depend on the type of aircraft, where it might be more common on older style planes for the flight attendent to enter the cockpit, but on larger and more modern planes such as the 757, the cockpit is more self contained. From Link Many pilots dont like to leave the flight deck. Its called "The Walk Of Shame" for a reason...lol Also keep in mind, some of the previous flight locations if i recall were LA- ORD-MIA-IAD, These are relatively short legs. 2-3 hours. Hit the bathroom before boarding, bring your lunch (which most pilots do to save some cash and eat more healthy than airline food), and you never need to leave your seat. There is also plenty of room to stretch on a 757 Flight Deck. So, if there is evidence of the door being opened prior to takeoff (thereby showing that the switch was working) but not opened in flight it puts the "explainers" in a precarious position, wouldn't you say? The FDR only starts recording once the engines are running, and there is usually no reason to open the door prior to takeoff after the pilots are in their seats and the engines are running prior to takeoff. The case here is that the FDR shows the door being closed for the entire flight, and for the 11 prior flights, although that isn't that unusual, in fact, it's pretty common. What makes it unusual here is that if the flight deck door remained closed for the entire flight, then obviously the plane was not hijacked.
I don't do it for their benefit, I do it for the benefit of those who are here to read the info and form their own opinion... I'm tempted at times to really say what's on my mind, but it would just play into the hands of those who are trying to discredit the info.
All this arm-waving about cell phones, is to try to obfuscate the voluminous evidence that Flight 11 was hijacked, both because the cabin security was breached and calls were logged and recorded, regardless of what amateurs selectively pick from research reports, and also because those calls describe the people doing the hijackings. So you're left fighting a rear guard action while getting pushed back, your resistance consisting of deny, deny, deny without bringing anything new of your own to the discussion. In other words, per k00kology, we now have 5 separate conspiracies for just 1 flight out of 4 on Sept 11 2001. And the other 3 flights have at least 5 more of their own conspiracies, making a total of 4 x 5 = 20 conspiracies that must be maintained at all costs. And yet the same people who produce and manage 20+ stageshow presentations perfectly for 8 years, can't even get enough regular session funds to pay for the war they wanted and which they've made the longest and costliest in American history. Riiight.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PROVE that cabin security was breached. It's not impossible to fake phone calls, hell, I can set my caller ID to display any number I want. An intelligence agency with tons of money could utilize voice synthesis technology to make anyone's voice sound like somebody else's. As far as Olson, it's clear as day that either somebody other than his wife called him, or he's lying.
Just how many conspiracies are you Six Percenters going to claim are being managed with zero defections, even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for, is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) The conspiracy to send something other than Fight 77 to hit the Pentagon, If there was a need for a specific spot to be targetted, and for not THAT much damage to be done, yet enough to accomplish the desired results, then it would make sense to use a decoy for "witnesses" to see, while something else actually sped towards the target. As it is, it's close to physically impossible for a 757 to fly less than 60 feet off the ground at 400+ mph, yet for the official story to be true, we are to believe Flight 77 somehow flew level at 20 feet off the ground at 530+ mph, with a "pilot" at the wheel who couldn't even fly a small single engine Cessna. (2) The conspiracy to kill the people on Flight 77 some other way, then mis- identify their DNA remains, Whose to say the tests were actually performed, or where the remains that were actually examined came from. (3) The conspiracy to scatter shredded and burnt 757 American parts over the Pentagon grounds and crash site, directly under the cameras of worldwide coverage without getting detected, I'm still waiting for you to provide pictures of the wreckage being placed into trucks and carted away. There was minimal debris on the lawn, and the pieces that YOU showed sitting on the lawn look like they came from a model airplane. (4) The conspiracy to hide information showing the cabin and voice recorder data of Flight 77 is not available, and Huh? Nobody here is arguing about the cockpit voice recorder, it was damaged in the crash, at least that is what is claimed by the government. (5) The conspiracy to generate ficticious onboard and cell phone logs and entries showing staff and passenger conversations during the hijackings. Not difficult to do, as already stated.
How much money has been spent on the Iraq and Afghan wars, a trillion or more? That's bought more than a few luxury items for those in the defense and "rebuilding" industry. What happened to Iraqi oil? Oh yeah, BP owns it now apparently. How'd Unocol do with that problem with getting permission to build a pipeline across Afghanistan? Oh yeah, they built it. How'd all those high tech "surveilance" companies do after the Patriot Act was enacted? How many rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights are still inviolable?
Your video shows a bunch of guys with suits running around the Pentagon lawn holding up a few pieces of scrap, which even I could do better on faking a plane crash with some junk from the dump.
Already done. Read and view my links instead of coming up with Pavlovian denials of the information they contain. Start with the one a couple posts up, which shows lots of Pentagon aircraft part wreckage and clean up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where are all those surveillance videos that the FBI confiscated from traffic cameras that morning?
Oh you could? Then show me even 10 frames of your video or anybody else's showing anybody planting any plane parts anywhere on the Pentagon at any time. pwned, liar. You lose.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Liar. You posted an image showing two guys with suits carrying a few pieces of what appeared to be tin foil. Did they make you a nice hat with it? Show the images of the trucks being loaded with the wreckage. Where is the wreckage being stored BTW?
pwned, liar. You lose. There is nothing on the lawn that couldn't easily be made from scrap or sheet metal. YOU lose.
Yes, it is old news. Also since no plane struck the Pentagon I am not sure what use the flight data recorder would have that would prove anything. I think it would be easy enough to come up with a fake FDR for that plane. They probably just forgot some details, like the cockpit door opening. Surely the real FDR from that flight will never be heard or seen since it is highly likely all passengers were killed by the CIA/Mossad for the good of Israel.
God is always good!
Where's your even 10 frame video showing evidence being planted at the Pentagon flockwit?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fool who produced the video you posted in post 114 is an even bigger liar than you are. He is claiming that the outside panels on the WTC towers were actually steel columns, and that they are proof that the "steel columns were buckling from the heat of the fire". I bet you and he are good buddies...
Show me how it was, and show me even 10 frames of somebody planting it. Then explain why you ignore the jet engine parts, and scorched 757 strut and landing gear parts, in the same video.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But they had box cutters. They were all so scared of those box cutters that they forgot that they had more powerful weapons. I highly doubt there was any plane hijacked that day. And I am fairly certain no plane whatsoever struck the Pentagon.
God is always good!
What are they, then, bamboo?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you going to fill up this thread with SPAM from your fellow loons who decided they'd plaster their idiotic bullshit on YouTube? The discussion here was about the state of the "FLT DECK DOOR" data field on Flight 77's flight data recorder, not a parade of every KOOK version of the government conspiracy theory that not even the GOVERNMENT has tried to foist on the American People. If you have points to make or facts to talk about, do it, but stop SPAMMING this thread.
The external panels were NOT the exterior support columns. THESE are what the support columns looked like. What your pal shows are the external PANELS placed ON the columns for aesthetic purposes. 6% huh? you better hope so.
God is always good!
SOME sort of aircraft struck the Pentagon, but I highly doubt it was Flight 77.
It's not certain that those parts are from a 757. Where's the wreckage stored, and where's the forensic analysis?
huh? anyone here capable of translating this to English?
God is always good!
As it is, it's close to physically impossible for a 757 to fly less than 60 feet off the ground at 400+ mph, yet for the official story to be true, we are to believe Flight 77 somehow flew level at 20 feet off the ground at 530+ mph, with a "pilot" at the wheel who couldn't even fly a small single engine Cessna. You'd think people would see that as a HUGE red flag in terms of the "official story" being even remotely possible, yet it's apparent that you don't have the slightest amount of concern over it. It's obvious you aren't here to discuss anything, your mission here is to disrupt and to discredit.
I don't think so. The anti-aircraft weapons all around it would have been activated, no plane could have struck it. Also, there is no evidence any plane struck it. A bomb is a much more likely, with scattered plane parts thrown around in the mix to make it at least plausible that a plane could have struck it. Of course a bomb going off at the Pentagon means it definitely was an inside job, so that will never be revealed officially.
God is always good!
(1) Just how many conspiracies are you Six Percenters going to claim are being managed with zero defections? Just a wee bit more complicated than mindlessly repeating "911 was an inside job, 911 was an inside job, 911 is an inside job" over and over.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They'd only fire those off if they really wanted to stop the attack from happening, which they apparently didn't.
Wrong. The discussion was whether Flight 77 was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon. It was. All your subsequent off topic remarks about "prove the cabin doors were opened" after the NTSB explicitly says it has no such information, and "there were no cell phone calls made from the airplanes" are simply attempts to get rid of any evidence that undercuts your religious belief.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you the same person who was here earlier today posting under the AGAviator account? At least THAT person wasn't a TOTAL and COMPLETE idiot, unlike you. I posted this thread, the article is about the flight data recorder data from Flight 77 you goddamn moron. Read the article you fool. FLIGHT 77 is the aircraft that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon, Flight 11 is the flight that is alleged to have hit the North World Trade Center tower. Are you drunk, or are you some kid using his daddy's computer?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like this fool doesn't even know what plane was supposed to hit what target. READ THE HEADING OF THIS THREAD.
For the fourth time. Where's even 10 frames showing people planting evidence into the Pentagon, including both landing gear parts and fuselage shreds? Where's any evidence for any other CT, other than cherry picking and selectively quoting sources that are not your own? You said you can make a better video yourself than the ones I've linked to. So do it, put up or shut up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#99. To: HOUNDDAWG (#97)
Now, the govt may claim that the door status switch wasn't working at the time of the flight, but this would be easily disproven if the FDR was working and recorded the pilots or crew entering the cockpit prior to liftoff.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: FormerLurker (#99)
#101. To: FormerLurker (#99)
Thing is, they shut down the flight data recorder when they shut down the engines between flights, so the FDR normally wouldn't record the door opening.
#102. To: FormerLurker (#77)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#103. To: Original_Intent (#79)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#104. To: HOUNDDAWG (#101)
Also, it is not unusual to keep the cockpit door closed during flight. I have gone on many 4-5 hour flights never leaving the cockpit. I've even done many trips single and twin engine prop from NY to Florida, Memphis... etc, 8-10 hours of flying, with one pee break at midway point when stopping for gas. I know many pilots who go hours without leaving their seat.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: Artisan (#102)
i gotta say- your tolerance & relentlessness with these people are very impressive. yeesh!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#106. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#84)
(Edited)
“The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office."
(1) The conspiracy to send something other than Fight 77 to hit the Pentagon,
And these 5 conspiracies for Flight 11, and the 20+ for all anti war hijacking issues and building destructions, must be maintained at all costs with no dissenting witnesses even among people classified as anti government.
(2) The conspiracy to kill the people on Flight 77 some other way, then mis-identify their DNA remains,
(3) The conspiracy to scatter shredded and burnt 757 American parts over the Pentagon grounds and crash site, directly under the cameras of worldwide coverage without getting detected,
(4) The conspiracy to hide information showing the cabin and voice recorder data of Flight 77 is not available, and
(5) The conspiracy to generate ficticious onboard and cell phone logs and entries showing staff and passenger conversations during the hijackings.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#107. To: AGAviator (#106)
All this arm-waving about cell phones, is to try to obfuscate the voluminous evidence that Flight 11 was hijacked, both because the cabin security was breached and calls were logged and recorded, regardless of what amateurs selectively pick from research reports, and also because those calls describe the people doing the hijackings.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#108. To: FormerLurker (#107)
PROVE that cabin security was breached....An intelligence agency with tons of money could utilize voice synthesis technology to make anyone's voice sound like somebody else's.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#109. To: AGAviator (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#110. To: AGAviator (#108)
even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for, is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: AGAviator (#108)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: FormerLurker (#109)
I'm still waiting for you to provide pictures of the wreckage being placed into trucks and carted away. There was minimal debris on the lawn, and the pieces that YOU showed sitting on the lawn look like they came from a model airplane.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#113. To: AGAviator (#108)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#114. To: FormerLurker (#111)
(Edited)
Which even I could do better on faking a plane crash with some junk from the dump.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#115. To: AGAviator (#112)
Already done.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#116. To: AGAviator (#114)
Then show me even 10 frames of your video or anybody else's showing anybody planting any plane parts anywhere on the Pentagon at any time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#117. To: FormerLurker (#3)
(Edited)
#118. To: FormerLurker (#115)
You posted an image showing two guys with suits carrying a few pieces of what appeared to be tin foil. Did they make you a nice hat with it?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#119. To: AGAviator (#114)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#120. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#116)
There is nothing on the lawn that couldn't easily be made from scrap or sheet metal.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#121. To: noone222 (#6)
(Edited)
All of that being said, isn't it a bit ridiculous for a commercial jet that was known to be hijacked for an hour and a half to be left alone to hit the Pentagon ?
#122. To: FormerLurker (#119)
an even bigger liar than you are. He is claiming that the outside panels on the WTC towers were actually steel columns, and that they are proof that the "steel columns were buckling from the heat of the fire".
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#123. To: AGAviator (#118)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#124. To: AGAviator (#122)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#125. To: AGAviator (#108)
#126. To: RickyJ (#121)
I highly doubt there was any plane hijacked that day. And I am fairly certain no plane whatsoever struck the Pentagon.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#127. To: AGAviator (#120)
Then explain why you ignore the jet engine parts, and scorched 757 strut and landing gear parts, in the same video.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#128. To: AGAviator (#108)
even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for, is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
#129. To: AGAviator (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#130. To: FormerLurker (#126)
SOME sort of aircraft struck the Pentagon, but I highly doubt it was Flight 77.
#131. To: RickyJ (#128)
(2) Even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for?
(3) Is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#132. To: RickyJ (#130)
The anti-aircraft weapons all around it would have been activated, no plane could have struck it
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#133. To: AGAviator (#131)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#134. To: FormerLurker (#123)
(Edited)
The discussion here was about the state of the "FLT DECK DOOR" data field on Flight 77's flight data recorder, not a parade
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#135. To: AGAviator, RickyJ, Original_Intent, Artisan, Eric Stratton, christine (#134)
The discussion was whether Flight 11 was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon. It was.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#136. To: FormerLurker (#133)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#137. To: AGAviator, ALL (#134)
The discussion was whether Flight 11 was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon. It was.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#138. To: FormerLurker (#135)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
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