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Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 22801
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
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Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack” Once again a CT site fails to report all the information, holding back full disclosure of facts that will fail to support wild non-hijacking theories. Thereby serving as an instigator for conflict between Six Percenters hardliners and the much larger "certain elements within USG allowed 911 to happen" group. The flight data recorder was at least partially melted, and not only did not indicate any movement of Flight 75's cabin door on September 11, it also did not show any movement for 40 hours and 11 flights prior to Flight 75 on September 11. Why aren't the CT sites saying this? This information was submitted as evidence at the Massoui trial in Virginia. Why aren't the weasely "Scholars" and "Truthers" disclosing it? The NTSB reported that "The majority of the recording tape was fused into a solid block of charred plastic." No usable segments of tape were found inside the recorder.[85] The Flight Data Recorder failed to record certain parameters with certainty. Among the uncertain parameters was the status of the cockpit door, which showed no sign of having been opened during the hijacking or previous 40 hours, including 11 flights prior to the hijacking."
Isn't it just so awful that all these intelligent and well educated people refuse to believe the gubbermint and insist on forming conclusions based on the evidence. Of course you are paid to try and explain all the evidence away as something else. What's your back up career? Guard in a Snuff Camp?
Of course you are paid to try and explain all the evidence away as something else. What's your back up career? Guard in a Snuff Camp? On these exchanges you've been slowly but inexorably exposing yourself as a pompous windbag, devoid of real research skills or ability to analyze complex information, devoid of ability to consider additional information that upends existing rigidly held beliefs, a self-righteous ideologue unwilling to focus on common factors, and a codependent with the whatever "evil government" is the cornerstone of all your k00ky, $hitbrain, long-debunked beliefs that 94% of the country rejects out of hand. What evidence, fuckwit? The false claim was made that the doors to the cabin did not open, based on amateur cherry-picking of government reports and pointedly excluding statements that don't support k00k blather. The doors were not reported opened on damaged recording equipment does not equal the doors not opening at all. Especially when there is zero evidence doors opening on 11 flights and 40 hours previous to 911. The doors did open and close. The information on their opening and closing, along with certain other information, could not be recovered from seriously damaged equipment. So what does that make you? A classic divisive "False Front Operator" focused on turmoil and strife instead of workable solutions. Just like 1917 commie double agents who accused everyone they couldn't control of being counter- revolutionary conspirators. Not that you'll ever become that important. Once again, fool. As brainless as certain elements in the USG are, even they won't pay good money to attempt to divert dissenters from hare-brained k00kologies that less than 94% of the population accepts anyway. I'm here because I have a little extra time on my hands, and I hate liars, k00k groupthink, and people who think they can shout me down with recycled lame accusations, and windy off-topic dissertations. You've been rebutted above with complete info about how the false info about Flight 77 cabin doors not being opened, comes from k00kigarchs' dishonest selective quoting of reports, and incompetent failure to completely do research. So now all you have left is your dickless insults and your crackpot "I'm important enough that 'they' need to pay someone to post to me.'" No, idiot. You're just a target for my debunking skills. On every exchange you've been rebutted with specific facts, and you then reply with stale recycled insults. You're pwned and terminal case loser. So what's left? Not willing to shut your pompous utterances, you go to hyperbole, mocking, gaybanter, scatology, and accusations of being paid by "them." No loser. You're not worth spending money on and your arm-waving "great conspiracy" replies to specific factual rebuttals speak for themselves. Anybody with an ounce of brains can see the entire WOT is a disaster that's headed toward spectacular failure. "They" got their war but can't manage it. But "they're" supposed to be so good at running operations they pulled off the mother of all conspiracies without a single defector, or single piece of forensic evidence, coming forth to spill the beans for 8 1/2 years running. Enjoy your fantasy world "Useful Idiot."
The REAL k00k blather is coming from you, in that you're trying to pass off the damaged cockpit voice recorder from Flight 77 as the flight data recorder.
Your original statement, Post #859 on other thread, was the cabin doors were not opened and closed during Flight 77. This is a false k00ksite claim. The facts are, no evidence is reported on crash-damaged equipment, of doors opening and closing for Flight 77, or of 40 hours and 11 flights previous to it. Which does not equal doors did not open or close at all. Instead of acknowledging that error you shift the discussion to quibbling over voice reporters vs. flight data recorders, even though both were damaged and found at the same time, and neither shows any information about cabin doors to make your case.
Your original statement, Post #859 on other thread, was the cabin doors were not opened and closed during Flight 77. You are a deceptive and dishonest individual. The article here states that researchers who are members of "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" have determined that the FDR data provided by the NTSB indicates that the cockpit door was NOT opened during the entire flight. That is NOT unusual, as the door normally remains closed during flight, except that it WOULD indicate that Flight 77 was NOT hijacked. Secondly, and you need to get this through your thick skull, the fact is that the flight data recorder ONLY records data while the engines are running. Once the plane lands and the engines are shutdown between flights, the flight data recorder STOPS recording, so the fact that ALL of the flights recorded on the FDR indicate the door was closed is NOT unusual AT ALL, in fact it is to be expected. This is a false k00ksite claim. You engage in posting images with deceptive text in an effort to "debunk" what is reported here. YOU are the k00kaburger here bud, not any of the pilots at the Pilots for 9/11 Truth website. The facts are, no evidence is reported on crash-damaged equipment, of doors opening and closing for Flight 77, or of 40 hours and 11 flights previous to it. Which does not equal doors did not open or close at all. The FDR uses a MEMORY CHIP, and it was NOT "crash-damaged", in fact the NTSB itself reports that the FDR was working properly. Instead of acknowledging that error you shift the discussion to quibbling over voice reporters vs. flight data recorders, even though both were damaged and found at the same time, and neither showed any information about cabin doors to make your case. Again, you attempt to muddy the water and claim the damaged cockpit voice recorder TAPE is actually the UNDAMAGED solid state FLIGHT DATA RECORDER MEMORY MODULE, where the voice recorder simply records conversations in the cockpit onto tape, the FDR records AIRCRAFT PARAMETERS onto a memory module, and is contained in a crash proof box. The BOX which CONTAINED the memory module had impact, smoke, and fire damage, but the MEMORY MODULE itself was intact and functional.
You originally made the claim, quoting a half-baked Six Percenter k00ksite, that data shows Flight 77 cabin doors weren't opened or closed at all during its flight. I rebutted that by showing flight reports citing unavailability of any information whatsoever about the cabin doors, which isn't the same as data that does exist and accurately shows the workings or non workings of cabin doors. All your subsequent statements are attempts to evade acknowleging that in fact you have no basis to make your claims of supporting evidence for doors not opening. You are of course free to cite your usual bogeyman of eebil gubmint conspiracies and personal asides as part of your SOP smokescreen.
You originally made the claim, quoting a half-baked Six Percenter k00ksite, that data shows Flight 77 cabin doors weren't opened or closed at all during its flight. I have no idea what you mean by 6-percenter kooksite, other than the sources YOU use to base your claims. The individuals who operate the Pilots for 9/11 Truth website are aviation experts and airline pilots with decades of experience flying commerical aircraft. YOU are the KOOK, not them. The NTSB data indicates that the COCKPIT DOOR was NOT OPENED during Flight 77's entire flight leading to the Pentagon on 9/11, that is true. I rebutted that by showing flight reports citing unavailability of any information whatsoever about the cabin doors, which isn't the same as data that does exist and accurately shows the workings or non workings of cabin doors. Cockpit door status IS collected on 757's, and IS a valid parameter in regards to the Boing technical documentation. The door is SUPPOSED to be CLOSED during flight, which the FDR indicates IS in fact the case. All your subsequent statements are attempts to evade acknowleging that in fact you have no basis to make your claims of supporting evidence for doors not opening. You are of course free to cite your usual bogeyman of eebil gubmint conspiracies and personal asides as part of your SOP smokescreen You are a shillster, that much is obvious. C'mon, posting pictures of a damaged COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER and trying pass it off as the FLIGHT DATA RECORDER? Are you some low level worker they found on a H1-B visa or something?
False enough to be an outright lie after you've been pointed to the supporting reports 3 different times. The NTSB report says there is "NO DATA AVAILABLE" for the cockpit doors or for 40 hours and 11 flights before the 911 flight 75. Again. Both black boxes were recovered the same place, same time, seriously damaged. Neither shows any evidence of cockpit activities. As in zero evidence. You can't use the data from either device to claim the NTSB says the doors didn't open. The NTSB says they don't have that data from either device, not that they have it, but it shows no activity. CVR, FDR, or a combination are equally unable to support your k00kclaims.
The cockpit voice recorder WAS damaged and unusable. The BOX THAT CONTAINED the FLIGHT DATA RECORDER was damaged, but the MEMORY MODULE stored WITHIN the BOX was NOT damaged. The data within the MEMORY MODULE was PRESENTED by the NTSB as EVIDENCE of the aircraft's flight data and parameters.
The NTSB listed specific exclusions from the data and parameters. Two exclusions listed - there are others in addition - are any data whatsoever about either cabin door movement, or about cabin conversations. On reports that you youself cut, pasted, and posted. Without comprehending. Furthermore a Flight 11 stewardess did make a call after the hijackers entered the cabin and took over, giving names, seat numers, and descriptions of the attackers. The calls were recorded and transcripts are available. Yet another disbunking of the "cabin doors were never opened" lie. You're illiterate.
The NTSB listed specific exclusions from the data and parameters. Did you truly think they would state that the parameter is confirmed, being that it would indicate the hijacking never took place? The plane wouldn't have taken off if the sensor wasn't working, that is a safety measure programmed into the aircraft flight computers, where if there's a fault with the flight data recorder or any of its sensors, the aircraft will not be able to takeoff. Two exclusions listed - there are others in addition - are any data whatsoever about either cabin door movement, or about cabin conversations. As far as your habit of mixing apples with oranges, the cockpit voice recorder tape being damaged has nothing to do with the digital information stored on the flight recorder's memory module. It's obvious you're tap dancing here, sorry, but I'm not that easily amused or distracted. Furthermore a Flight 11 stewardess did make a call after the hijackers entered the cabin and took over, giving names, seat numers, and descriptions of the attackers. The calls were recorded and transcripts are available. Yet another disbunking of the "cabin doors were never opened" lie. The flight data indicates the door was NOT opened, and not only is the cockpit door opened by a switch INSIDE the cockpit, and the pilot a burly Navy vet who flew fighter jets in the Navy who would NOT have been overcome by a scrawny arab with a box cutter, and the fact that cell phone calls were next to impossible from an aircraft at cruising altitude in 2001, the fact remains that the supposed "hijacker", Hani Hanjour, couldn't even fly a Cessna, never mind a large heavy multi-engine jet. Even the FBI has indicated that Ted Olzon's wife never spoke to her husband on her cellphone during the flight. It's obvious that YOU are perpetrating a lie, and are part of the 9/11 coverup. You are in fact a traitor to this nation.
A lie. The NTSB flight data report says there is no information available for cabin doors on Flight 175 or 11 other flights going back 40 hours. Furthermore a stewardess made a phone call during the hijacking after the hijackers entered the cabin and took over, giving names, seat numbers, physical descriptions, and summaries of conditions and injuries to passengers and crew. Another lie. There are over 30 phone calls from Flight 75 logged and listed. There are also phone calls from Flights 11, 175, and 77 logged and listed. Some of the receivers of these calls presumed they were from cell phones when they actually were actually from on board satellite phones. Wow, what evidence of a conspiracy, calling a satellite phone a cell phone when you get incoming. Ted Olson's wife calling her husband is one such logged call. Her husband says she called collect, presumably from a satellite phone he first identified as a cell phone - which could still make calls although with less than 100% service. According to Debunk911myths.org, all but two calls from Flight 93 were made on air phones, not cell phones, and both calls lasted about a minute before being dropped.[119] Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless spokesperson, said that Flight 93 was supported by several cell sites.[117] There were reportedly three phone calls from Flight 11, five from Flight 175, and three calls from Flight 77. Two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by flight attendants Madeleine Sweeney and Betty Ong on Flight 11.
You: Another lie. At the Moussaoui trial, the fact that there was only 1 call to Ted Olson from his wife that lasted 0 seconds was presented.
During the FBI investigation and press release phase, the terms "aircraft onboard phone" and "cell phone" were frequently interchanged. Like someone who gets an incoming cell call is going to instantly know what precise phone type it's coming from. So there are the phone calls whether "onboard" or cell," and their recipients logged and documented. What conversations went on with those calls? How to continue executing the Mother of All Conspiracies without anybody finding out? Phone Calls from the 9/11 Airliners ...by Prof David Ray Griffin Having concluded that I had probably made an error, I wrote a retraction, entitled “Barbara Olson’s Alleged Call from AA 77: A Correction About Onboard Phones,” which was posted May 7, 2007. Having said that my earlier claim that AA 757s did not have onboard phones was “wrong, at least probably,” I concluded this essay by saying: “In this brief essay, I have tried to exemplify what I have always said people should do when they find that they have made errors, especially about issues of great importance: Correct them quickly, forthrightly, and publicly,"
From Could Barbara Olson Have Made Those Calls? Futhermore... In the course of doing research for this article, we learned, to our amazement, that even if, contrary to our evidence, Flight 77 did have functioning onboard phones, the US government has now said, implicitly, that Ted Olson’s claim about receiving two calls from his wife that morning is untrue. As we mentioned earlier, the FBI report on phone calls from AA planes on 9/11 does not cite records from the DOJ showing that any calls from AA 77 were received that morning. Instead, the FBI report refers merely to four “connected calls to unknown numbers.” The 9/11 Commission, putting the best possible spin on this report, commented: “The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office.”27 That is, it must be said, a very strange conclusion: If Ted Olson reported receiving only two calls, why would the Commission conclude that the DOJ had received four connected calls from his wife? That conclusion is, in any case, starkly contradicted by evidence about phone calls from Flight 77 presented by the US government at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in 2006.28 Far from attributing all four of the “connected calls to unknown numbers” to Barbara Olson, as the 9/11 Commission suggested, the government’s evidence here attributes none of them to her, saying instead that each of them was from an “unknown caller.” The only call attributed to Barbara Olson, moreover, is an “unconnected call” to the Department of Justice, which was said to have been attempted at “9:18:58” and to have lasted “0 seconds.” According to the US government in 2006, in other words, Barbara Olson attempted a call to the DOJ, but it did not go through.29 The government itself has presented evidence in a court of law, therefore, that implies that unless its former solicitor general was the victim of two faked phone calls, he was lying. It may seem beyond belief that the US government would have failed to support Ted Olson’s claim. We ourselves, as we indicated, were amazed at this development. However, it would not be the first time that the FBI---surely the agency that prepared this report about phone calls from the flights30---had failed to support the official story about 9/11. We refer to the fact that when Rex Tomb, the FBI’s chief of investigative publicity, was asked why the bureau’s website on “Usama bin Laden” does not list 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts for which he is wanted, he replied: “[T]he FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”31
All this arm-waving about cell phones, is to try to obfuscate the voluminous evidence that Flight 11 was hijacked, both because the cabin security was breached and calls were logged and recorded, regardless of what amateurs selectively pick from research reports, and also because those calls describe the people doing the hijackings. So you're left fighting a rear guard action while getting pushed back, your resistance consisting of deny, deny, deny without bringing anything new of your own to the discussion. In other words, per k00kology, we now have 5 separate conspiracies for just 1 flight out of 4 on Sept 11 2001. And the other 3 flights have at least 5 more of their own conspiracies, making a total of 4 x 5 = 20 conspiracies that must be maintained at all costs. And yet the same people who produce and manage 20+ stageshow presentations perfectly for 8 years, can't even get enough regular session funds to pay for the war they wanted and which they've made the longest and costliest in American history. Riiight.
PROVE that cabin security was breached. It's not impossible to fake phone calls, hell, I can set my caller ID to display any number I want. An intelligence agency with tons of money could utilize voice synthesis technology to make anyone's voice sound like somebody else's. As far as Olson, it's clear as day that either somebody other than his wife called him, or he's lying.
Just how many conspiracies are you Six Percenters going to claim are being managed with zero defections, even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for, is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
huh? anyone here capable of translating this to English?
(1) Just how many conspiracies are you Six Percenters going to claim are being managed with zero defections? Just a wee bit more complicated than mindlessly repeating "911 was an inside job, 911 was an inside job, 911 is an inside job" over and over.
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that.
Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank who sat under a tree, was hit in the head with an apple of all things, and then thought it mean't something. Another typical "Conspiracy Theorist". A k00k. And what's with this rate of change stuff? A bunch of gobblydegook that he even had to invent his own mystic symbols to describe. And the Earth is flat "everybody can see that", and rocks don't fall from the sky either.
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that. Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank. You flockwits are about as far as being from "Sir Isaac Newton" as you can get except for 1 factor - something did bounce off your noggins. I cannot think of a greater exercise in Western civ denying reality and wasting time this side of the Middle Age superstitions. On 911 we have
You flockwits are about as far as being from "Sir Isaac Newton" as you can get except for 1 factor - something did bounce off your noggins. I cannot think of a greater exercise in Western civ denying reality and wasting time this side of the Middle Age superstitions. On 911 we have (1) A man who played an instrumental role in the guerilla fighting that eventually forced the communists to leave Afghanistan, saying he will do the same thing to the US as to the Russians, following through on his threats by destroying 2 US embassies and several US military facilities over the next decade. But somehow not playing any role in the 911 attacks, because he stayed in some bomb-resistance mountain bases after escaping several volleys of cruise missiles sent to his regular living place and because briefly he denied being behind them (2) Four aircraft reporting hijackings, with 3 of them observed crashing into buildings by hundreds to thousands of observers, (3) Major damage to other buildings from the crashes that happened in New York City, (4) The release of these 3 crashes of gigajoules of energy which somehow had no effect on the buildings, which are alleged to have been brought down by alternative totally unconnected and difficult to fully explain in detail methods, (5) Firemen saying they will be "pulling" away from one crash damaged building because "the structural stability is not there," (6) Saying that dozens of phone calls recorded and recollected by people during the jijackings didn't ever happen, and (7) Saying the people who got the remains from forensic DNA analysis didn't actually receive the bodies or body parts of people dying according to the detailed autopsy reports. What a pantload to expect people other than dingbat Six Percenters to believe! Speaking of Pantloads how's the weather in Virginia today? 1. The fact that someone is hostile does not bequeath upon them magic powers to cause cover exercises to occur, the FBI to secure and sequester all of the 32 or so videotapes from sites around the Pentagon the afternoon of the attack (which 9 years later are still under lock and key), nor does it explain how that same CIA Contract Agent was able to shut down NORAD. Blowing Osama Ben Forgotten up into some mythical bogeyman does not vitiate obvious facts such as that the Air Traffic Controllers who watched this all unfold on their scopes are still under a gag order 9 years later. 2. None of the Aircraft reported a hijacking and to assert otherwise is simply a lie. None of the pilots or co-pilots (8 people on 4 aircraft) reported being hijacked or, very telling, sent the four digit hijack code which takes about 2 seconds to tap out. Once it is possible, twice is stretching it, but 4 out 4? I don't think so. These were highly trained ex-military pilots who were used to operating under deadly stress. That not 1 of them sent the code is preposterous UNLESS the avionics had been tampered with. That a madman in a cave in the vastness of far Tora Bora could do that on 4 aircraft would require a very sophisticated technical team and the logistics of which would make "Mission Impossible" look like a Cake Walk. 3. No one has maintained that the aircraft did not do damage to the buildings in New York. That is a Strawman Argument. However, there is no evidence which supports the stupid theory that 2 airplanes can make 3 buildings collapse in a manner identical to a controlled demolition. I know several implausible scenarios have been tried to force the evidence into that box, but for some strange reason it keeps squeezing out. Imagine that. 4. First a "Joule" is an extremely small amount of energy so even a gigajoule or two, while large, is only a fraction of the energy released in a nuclear explosion. For comparison a standard stick of dynamite releases 2.1 Megajoules of energy (7.5 MJ/Kg). It sounds bigger than it is because most people are not familiar with the tiny amount of energy represented by 1 Joule. And the size of the energy is not as important as how the energy is directed and into what. Here is where scale becomes important. A gigajoule of energy released into an ant hill is going to obliterate it out of existence, that same amount of energy released into the side of an open pit mine is going to create a lot of work for the men hauling the ore out, but a gigajoule released into an open structure with plenty of avenues for the compression wave to escape is not as significant. Its still not good, but not enough to knock down a structure as beefy as the the twin towers. In the case of the towers they were designed to withstand that level of impact and remain standing. However, that is almost beside the point as the series of unlikely events, and the strained reasoning of the "Official Conspiracy Theory™" do not account for the observed phenomena. If one takes the time to study a few catastrophic collapses of built structures then the one thing that stands out is that there is always one point where the failure of the structure begins i.e., a weak point that gives way first. So, in a normal failure the structure collapses in the direction of the point of failure. That is not what is observed at WTC 1,2, and 7. No, instead they collapse simultaneously in 360 degrees, SYMMETRICALLY, and subside into their own footprint at a rate of collapse approaching free fall - also not a typical phenomena associated with a normal catastrophic engineering failure. What is the closest simile to the observed phenomena is a controlled demolition wherein the underlying structure is removed by demolition charges thus allowing gravity to uniformly collapse the structure in a controlled linear collapse into its own footprint. 5. Structural instability does not equal a symmetrical, initiated at the same instant at all 4 corners, 360 degree collapse of a structure into its own footprint. Your comment is intentionally misleading so as to imply that reports of localized instability equals a collapse of the structure in the manner observed. 6. The only evidence of the alleged phone calls is insubstantial. The known operating charateristics of analog cellphones makes it very tenuous to assert that even one call was made. As you well know the famous "Barbara Olson" "calls" did not occur. You are simply blustering and trying to divert in a maze of confusion. 7. I have never argued that. I have not commented on it at all as a matter of fact. It is quite a "Pantload" to presume that people will stop observing, thinking, and drawing logical conclusions from the observed evidence just because you write a spittle flecked post and hold your breath until you turn blue. Childish temper tantrums are not evidence. Public Meltdowns and the use of shaky evidence and outright lies is not a valid argument. I would say you are so full of shit that your eyes are brown but that would be rude. Instead I'll just shake my head and laugh at your infantile antics.
You're the windbag who's alleging no connections between a guerilla leader who made violent threats against the US and carried them out over a decade, the hijackings of 3 aircraft by people identified as his followers, the plane crashes into buildings that subsequently experienced major or complete collapses within a few hours of their crashes, and unspecified details of alleged massive conspiracy plots, from an unspecified cabal of people who convincingly have shown themselves unable to to manage the very war they wanted. Those all are symptoms of a major reality block. Get your own head on straight before you infer anything wrong with people trying to help you get your bearings in the real world.
You mean the ones that are alive and well and have stated publically that they weren't involved, with the obvious proof being that they're still alive? There were 4 aircraft BTW.
'Boy seems a bit wound too tight. I think he needs to relax a bit, but the Sgt. in charge of his PsyOps Unit probably won't let him. Slave driver. Well, you know what they say about Sergeants - "they reproduce by fission - like all bacteria".
They probaly have some AI program analyze his comments and responses for "win/fail" scores, and he's not allowed to go to lunch until his score hits a certain level, or drops so low he's given a mandatory timeout.
The people who believe the government's insane conspiracy theory MAY be subjects of an Artificial Stupidity program that succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its creator.
ROTFL .... even the president's wife was in the WH on the morning of 9/11; GWBush couldn't find her there was so much pandemonium. Former first lady details problems with communication system TODAY books In her memoir, "Spoken from the Heart," former first lady Laura Bush shares a detailed account of being in the White House during the terrorist attacks. An excerpt. Goodness in the land of the living Tuesday morning, September 11, was sunny and warm, the sky a brilliant cerulean blue. The day before, I had hosted a lunch for Janette Howard, wife of the Australian prime minister, while George met with her husband, John. My friends who had come for the National Book Festival had all flown home, and even George was gone, in Florida for a school visit. George H. W. Bush and Bar had spent the night, but they had already left at 7:00 a.m. to catch an early flight. And I had what I considered a big day planned. I was set to arrive at the Capitol at 9:15 to brief the Senate Education Committee, chaired by Edward M. Kennedy, on the findings of the early childhood development conference that I’d held in July. In the afternoon, we were hosting the entire Congress and their families for the annual Congressional Picnic. The South Lawn of the White House was already covered with picnic tables awaiting their fluttering cloths, and Tom Perini from Buffalo Gap, Texas, was setting up his chuckwagons. Our entertainment would be old-fashioned square dancing and Texas swing music by Ray Benson and his classic band, Asleep at the Wheel. I finished dressing in silence, going over my statement again in my mind. I was very nervous about appearing before a Senate committee and having news cameras trained on me. Had the TV been turned on, I might have heard the first fleeting report of a plane hitting the North Tower of the World Trade Center at the tip of Manhattan as I walked out the door to the elevator. Instead, it was the head of my Secret Service detail, Ron Sprinkle, who leaned over and whispered the news in my ear as I entered the car a few minutes after 9:00 a.m. for the ride to the Russell Senate Office Building, adjacent to the Capitol. Andi Ball, now my chief of staff at the White House; Domestic Policy Advisor Margaret Spellings; and I speculated about what could have happened: a small plane, a Cessna perhaps, running into one of those massive towers on this perfect September morning. We wondered too if Hillary Clinton might decide not to attend the committee briefing, since the World Trade Center was in New York. We were driving up Pennsylvania Avenue when word came that the South Tower had been hit. The car fell silent; we sat in mute disbelief. One plane might be a strange accident; two planes were clearly an attack. I thought about George and wondered if the Secret Service had already hustled him to the motorcade and begun the race to Air Force One to return home. Two minutes later, at 9:16 a.m., we pulled up at the entrance to the Russell Building. In the time it had taken to drive the less than two miles between the White House and the Capitol, the world as I knew it had irrevocably changed. Senator Kennedy was waiting to greet me, according to plan. We both knew when we met that the towers had been hit and, without a word being spoken, knew that there would be no briefing that morning. Together, we walked the short distance to his office. He began by presenting me with a limited-edition print; it was a vase of bright daffodils, a copy of a painting he had created for his wife, Victoria, and given to her on their wedding day. The print was inscribed to me and dated September 11, 2001. An old television was turned on in a corner of the room, and I glanced over to see the plumes of smoke billowing from the Twin Towers. Senator Kennedy kept his eyes averted from the screen. Instead he led me on a tour of his office, pointing out various pictures, furniture, pieces of memorabilia, even a framed note that his brother Jack had sent to their mother when he was a child, in which he wrote, “Teddy is getting fat.” The senator, who would outlive all his brothers by more than forty years, laughed at the note as he showed it to me, still finding it amusing. All the while, I kept glancing over at the glowing television screen. My skin was starting to crawl, I wanted to leave, to find out what was going on, to process what I was seeing, but I felt trapped in an endless cycle of pleasantries. It did not occur to me to say, “Senator Kennedy, what about the towers?” I simply followed his lead, and he may have feared that if we actually began to contemplate what had happened in New York, I might dissolve into tears. Senator Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, the ranking Republican on the committee and one of our very good friends in the Senate—Judd had played Al Gore for George during mock debates at the ranch the previous fall—was also designated to escort me to the committee room, and he arrived just as I was completing the tour. Senator Kennedy invited us to sit on the couches, and he continued chatting about anything other than the horrific images unfolding on the tiny screen across the room. I looked around his shoulder but could see very little, and I was still trying to pay attention to him and the thread of his conversation. It seemed completely unreal, sitting in this elegant, sunlit office as an immense tragedy unfolded. We sat as human beings driven by smoke, flame, and searing heat jumped from the tops of the Twin Towers to end their lives and as firemen in full gear began the climb up the towers’ stairs. I have often wondered if the small talk that morning was Ted Kennedy’s defense mechanism, if after so much tragedy—the combat death of his oldest brother in World War II, the assassinations of his brothers Jack and Robert, and the deaths of nephews, including John Jr., whose body he identified when it was pulled from the cold, dark waters off Martha’s Vineyard—if after all of those things, he simply could not look upon another grievous tragedy. At about 9:45, after George had made a brief statement to the nation, which we watched, clustered around a small television that was perched on the receptionist’s desk, Ted Kennedy, Judd Gregg, and I walked out to tell reporters that my briefing had been postponed. I said, “You heard from the president this morning, and Senator Kennedy and Senator Gregg and I both join his statement in saying that our hearts and our prayers go out to the victims of this act of terrorism, and that our support goes to the rescue workers. And all of our prayers are with everyone there right now.” As I turned to exit, Laurence McQuillan of USA Today asked a question. “Mrs. Bush, you know, children are kind of struck by all this. Is there a message you could tell to the nation’s—” I didn’t even wait for him to finish but began, “Well, parents need to reassure their children everywhere in our country that they’re safe.” As we walked out of the briefing room, the cell phone of my advance man, John Meyers, rang. A friend told him that CNN was reporting that an airplane had crashed into the Pentagon. Within minutes, the order would be given to evacuate the White House and the Capitol. I walked back to Senator Kennedy’s office and then began moving quickly toward the stairs, to reach my car to return to the White House. Suddenly, the lead Secret Service agent turned to me and my staff and said that we needed to head to the basement immediately. We took off at a run; Judd Gregg suggested his private office, which was in the lower level and was an interior room. The Secret Service then told John that they were waiting for an Emergency Response Team to reach the Capitol. The team would take me, but my staff would be left behind. Overhearing the conversation, I turned back and said, “No, everyone is coming.” We entered Judd’s office, where I tried to call Barbara and Jenna, and Judd tried to call his daughter, who was in New York. Then we sat and talked quietly about our families and our worries for them, and the overwhelming shock we both felt. Sometime after 10:00 a.m., when the entire Capitol was being emptied, when White House staffers had fled barefoot and sobbing through the heavy iron gates with Secret Service agents shouting at them to “Run, run!” my agents collected me. They now included an additional Secret Service detail and an Emergency Response Team, dressed in black tactical clothing like a SWAT force and moving with guns drawn. As we raced through the dim hallways of the Russell Building, past panicked staffers emptying from their offices, the ERT team shouted “GET BACK” and covered my every move with their guns. We reached the underground entrance; the doors on the motorcade slammed shut, and we sped off. The Secret Service had decided to take me temporarily to their headquarters, located in a nondescript federal office building a few blocks from the White House. Following the Oklahoma City bombing, their offices had been reinforced to survive a large-scale blast. Outside our convoy windows, the city streets were clogged with people evacuating their workplaces and trying to reach their own homes. By the time I had reached my motorcade, Flight 93 had crashed in a Pennsylvania field and the west side of the Pentagon had begun to collapse. Judd Gregg walked alone to the underground Senate parking garage and retrieved his car, the last one left there. He pulled out of the garage and headed home, across the Fourteenth Street Bridge and past the Pentagon, thick with smoke and flame. In the intervening years, Judd and I, and many others, were left to contemplate what if Flight 93 had not been forced down by its passengers into an empty field; what if, shortly after 10:00 a.m., it had reached the Capitol Dome? We arrived at the Secret Service building via an underground entrance and were escorted first to the director’s office and then belowground to a windowless conference room with blank walls and a mustard yellow table. A large display screen with a constant TV feed took up most of one wall. Walking through the hallways, I saw a sign emblazoned with the emergency number 9-1-1. Had the terrorists thought about our iconic number when they picked this date and planned an emergency so overwhelming? For a while, I sat in a small area off the conference room, silently watching the images on television. I watched the replay as the South Tower of the World Trade Center roared with sound and then collapsed into a silent gray plume, offering my personal prayer to God to receive the victims with open arms. The North Tower had given way, live in front of my eyes, sending some 1,500 souls and 110 stories of gypsum and concrete buckling to the ground. So much happened during those terrible hours at the tip of Manhattan. That morning, as the people who worked in the towers descended, water from the sprinkler system was racing down the darkened stairwells. With their feet soaked, for some the greatest fear was that when they reached the bottom, the rushing water would be too high and they would be drowned. A few walked to safety under a canopy of skylights covered with the bodies of those who had jumped. Over two hundred people jumped to escape the heat, smoke, and flames. I was told that Father Mychal Judge, the chaplain for the New York City Fire Department, who had come to offer aid, comfort, and last rites, was killed that morning by the body of someone who had, in desperation, hurled himself from the upper floors of one of those towers. Video: Bush memoir to revisit 9/11, 2000 election The early expectation was for horrific numbers of deaths. Manhattan emergency rooms and hospitals as far away as Dallas were placed on Code Red, expecting to receive airlifted survivors. Some fifty thousand people worked inside the towers; on a beautiful day, as many as eighty thousand tourists would visit an observation deck on the South Tower’s 107th floor, where the vistas stretched for fifty miles. Had those hijacked planes struck the towers thirty or forty or fifty minutes later, the final toll might well have been in the tens of thousands. Inside Secret Service headquarters, I asked my staff to call their families, and I called the girls, who had been whisked away by Secret Service agents to secure locations. In Austin, Jenna had been awakened by an agent pounding on her dorm door. In her room at Yale, Barbara had heard another student sobbing uncontrollably a few doors down. Then I called my mother, because I wanted her to know that I was safe and I wanted so much to hear the sound of her voice. And I tried to reach George, but my calls could not get through; John Meyers, my advance man, promised to keep trying. I did know from the Secret Service that George had taken off from Florida, safe on board Air Force One. I knew my daughters and my mother were safe. But beyond that, everything was chaos. I was told that Barbara Olson, wife of Solicitor General Ted Olson, had been aboard the plane that hit the Pentagon. At one point, we also received word that Camp David had been attacked and hit. I began thinking of all the people who would have been there, like Bob Williams, the chaplain. Another report had a plane crashing into our ranch in Crawford. It got so that we were living in five-minute increments, wondering if a new plane would emerge from the sky and hit a target. All of us in that basement conference room and many more in the Secret Service building were relying on rumors and on whatever news came from the announcers on television. When there were reports of more errant planes or other targets, it was almost impossible not to believe them. George had tried to call me from Air Force One. It is stunning now to think that our “state-of-the-art” communications would not allow him to complete a phone call to Secret Service headquarters, or me to reach him on Air Force One. On my second call from the secure line, our third attempt, I was finally able to contact the plane, a little before twelve noon. I was grateful just to hear his voice, to know that he was all right, and to tell him the girls were fine. From the way he spoke, I could hear how starkly his presidency had been transformed. We remained in that drab conference room for hours, eventually turning off the repetitive horror of the images on the television. Inside, I felt a grief, a loss, a mourning like I had never known. A few blocks away, in the Chrysler offices near Pennsylvania Avenue, a group of White House senior staff began to gather. After the evacuation, some of those who were new to Washington had been wandering, dazed and shaken, in nearby Lafayette Park. By midafternoon, seventy staff members had congregated inside this office building, attempting to resume work, while Secret Service agents stood in the lobby and forbade anyone without a White House pass from entering. Key presidential and national security staff and Vice President Cheney were still sealed away in the small underground emergency center deep below the White House. As the skies and streets grew silent, there was a debate over what to do with George and what to do with me. The Secret Service detail told me to be prepared to leave Washington for several days at least. My assistant, Sarah Moss, was sent into the White House to gather some of my clothes. John Meyers accompanied her to retrieve Spot, Barney, and Kitty. Then we got word that the president was returning to Washington. I would be staying as well. Late in the afternoon, I spoke to George again. At 6:30 we got in a Secret Service caravan to drive to the White House. I gazed out the window; the city had taken on the cast of an abandoned movie set: the sun was shining, but the streets were deserted. We could not see a person on the sidewalk or any vehicles driving on the street. There was no sound at all except for the roll of our wheels over the ground. We drove at full throttle through the gate, and the agents hopped out. Heavily armed men in black swarmed over the grounds. Before I got out, one of my agents, Dave Saunders, who had been driving, turned around and said, “Mrs. Bush, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.” He said it with the greatest of concern and a hint of emotion in his voice. He knew what this day meant for us. I was hustled inside and downstairs through a pair of big steel doors that closed behind me with a loud hiss, forming an airtight seal. I was now in one of the unfinished subterranean hallways underneath the White House, heading for the PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, built for President Franklin Roosevelt during World War II. We walked along old tile floors with pipes hanging from the ceiling and all kinds of mechanical equipment. The PEOC is designed to be a command center during emergencies, with televisions, phones, and communications facilities. I was ushered into the conference room adjacent to the PEOC’s nerve center. It’s a small room with a large table. National Security Advisor Condi Rice, Counselor to the President Karen Hughes, Deputy Chief of Staff Josh Bolten, and Dick and Lynne Cheney were already there, where they had been since the morning. Lynne, whose agents had brought her to the White House just after the first attack, came over and hugged me. Then she said quietly into my ear, “The plane that hit the Pentagon circled the White House first.” I felt a shiver vibrate down my spine. Unlike the major monuments and even the leading government buildings in Washington, the White House sits low to the ground. It is a three-story building, tucked away in a downward slope toward the Potomac. When the White House was first built, visitors complained about the putrid scent rising from the river and the swampy grounds nearby. From the air, the White House is hard to see and hard to reach. A plane could circle it and find no plausible approach. And that is what Lynne Cheney told me had happened that morning, a little past 9:30, before Flight 77 crossed the river and thundered into the Pentagon. At 7:10 that night, George strode into the PEOC. Early that afternoon, he had conducted a secure videoconference from Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska with the CIA and FBI directors, as well as the military Joint Chiefs of Staff and the vice president and his national security staff, giving instructions and getting briefings on the latest information. Over the objections of the Secret Service, he had insisted upon returning home. We hugged and talked with the Cheneys a bit. Then the Secret Service detail suggested that we spend the night there, belowground. They showed us the bed, a foldout that looked like it had been installed when FDR was president. George and I stared at it, and we both said no, George adding, “We’re not going to sleep down here. We’re going to go upstairs and you can get us if something happens.” He said, “I’ve got to get sleep, in our own bed.” George was preparing to speak to the nation from the Oval Office, to reassure everyone and to show that the president was safely back in Washington, ready to respond. By 7:30 we were on our way up to the residence. I have no memory of having eaten dinner—George may have eaten on the plane. He tried to call the girls as soon as we were upstairs but couldn’t reach them. Barbara called back close to 8:00 p.m., and then George left to make remarks to the nation. We did finally climb into our own bed that night, exhausted and emotionally drained. Outside the doors of the residence, the Secret Service detail stood in their usual posts. I fell asleep, but it was a light, fitful rest, and I could feel George staring into the darkness beside me. Then I heard a man screaming as he ran, “Mr. President, Mr. President, you’ve got to get up. The White House is under attack.” We jumped up, and I grabbed a robe and stuck my feet into my slippers, but I didn’t stop to put in my contacts. George grabbed Barney; I grabbed Kitty. With Spot trailing behind, we started walking down to the PEOC. George had wanted to take the elevator, but the agents didn’t think it was safe, so we had to descend flight after flight of stairs, to the state floor, then the ground floor, and below, while I held George’s hand because I couldn’t see anything. My heart was pounding, and all I could do was count stairwell landings, trying to count off in my mind how many more floors we had to go. When we reached the PEOC, I saw the outline of a military sergeant unfolding the ancient hideaway bed and putting on some sheets. At that moment, another agent ran up to us and said, “Mr. President, it’s one of our own.” The plane was ours. For months afterward at night, in bed, we’d hear the military jets thundering overhead, traveling so fast that the ground below quivered and shook. They would make one pass and then, three or five minutes later, make another low-flying loop. I would fall asleep to the roar of the fighters in the skies, hearing in my mind those words, “one of our own.” There was a quiet security in that, in knowing that we slept beneath the watchful cover of our own. Waking the next morning, I had the sensation of knowing before my eyes opened that something terrible had happened, something beyond comprehension, and I wondered for a brief instant if it had all been a dream. Then I saw George, and I knew, knew that yesterday would be with us, each day, for all of our days to come. Excerpted from "Spoken from the Heart" by Laura Bush. Copyright © 2010 by Laura Bush. Excerpted with permission by Scribner, a Division of Simon & Schuster, Inc. © 2010 MSNBC Interactive URL: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/36943246/ns/today-today_books/ MSN Privacy . Legal © 2010 MSNBC.com
George couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery or find his ass with a map and both hands. Whatever the shortcomings of Bush, and lo, they are legion, has nothing to do with the claptrap that you and aggravator and a few other folks try to foist off on us. Magicakal Jet Fuel™, Magickal Cell Phones™, bs "pilots" who can't fly a Cessna well enough to get a license yet fly big commercial aircraft like stunt planes. Buildings falling at near freefall speed into their own footprint. One of which was not impacted by any plane--and no steel-framed skyscraper has ever fallen due to fire, none before 9/11 and none since. uh huh. Get real, buck.
Yeah ... but he planned the successful 9/11 disaster to make way for Afghanistan and Iraq failures didn't he?
Nobody is saying he planned it, but he DID more than likely go along with it.
This is ripe, man. I haven't had so many laffs in my life in so little time ........ Was his poppa in on it too? About his brother, Jed?
Was his poppa in on it too? About his brother, Jed? Ya think Shrub swore fealty to Satan, while a member of that Yale frat that had Geronomo's skull?
There is no question about it.... the ye ol' Skull&Bones club stikes again... meanwhile, tens of thousands of Washington DC bureaucrats attempted to escape to their appointed bunkers ..... What happened? The lazy bureaucrats were fearful for their own lives (WE ARE GOING TO DIE!) ALL at the same time and flooded the freeway systems into Virgina and West Virginia because of their panick and otherwise hysteric antics. They were grid-locked. And the minuscule numbers that made it to the bunkers.... half of them were refused access...... because they weren't authorized even though their bosses told them to do so. ROTFL ... this fucking government can't plan anything more than a water cooler in an air-conditioned office so the bureaucrats can chit-chat about their benfits all day.
...But like the mass of Washingtonians, officials from other agencies found themselves virtually on their own, unsure of where to go or what to do, or whom to contact for the answers. What happened? The lazy bureaucrats were fearful for their own lives (WE ARE GOING TO DIE!) ALL at the same time and flooded the freeway systems into Virgina and West Virginia because of their panick and otherwise hysteric antics. They were grid-locked. And the minuscule numbers that made it to the bunkers.... half of them were refused access...... because they weren't authorized even though their bosses told them to do so. Good find. And even here, not one of any USG people who felt hung out to dry on 911, and may have had inklings into the " Mother of All Conspiracies and Cover Ups" has come forward even on deep background to any one of the Twoofersites. And where's Professor Theologian David Ray Griffin to supply sorely needed org charts and project schedules, showing the principalities, powers, human agents, and pending actions of carrying out the Devil's Work on the unsuspecting American publick?
You two act as if the ENTIRE body of government would have to have known about the operation, whereas only a handful of top people around the country would have to have known. Those with the power to order war games at the same time as the attacks, and those with the power to disrupt and sabatoge any real investigation into the attacks themselves, are the ONLY ones that HAD to know what's going on.
You two act as if the ENTIRE body of government would have to have known about the operation, whereas only a handful of top people around the country would have to have known. Those with the power to order war games at the same time as the attacks, and those with the power to disrupt and sabatoge any real investigation into the attacks themselves, are the ONLY ones that HAD to know what's going on. That is a common disinformation argument - "well positively everybody in the world would have had to have been "in the know". Which of course is bogus and easily shown to be bogus. In a compartmentalized operation each individual actor knows only his or her orders, and not even the reason for the orders. It is just - "do 'X'". Additionally the black ops community in the U.S. has grown quite large and would have provided the cadre for any such operation. And the naive notion that there are not people in the Spook community evil enough to do this is just flat naive. The argument that positively everybody in the world would have had to have been "in the know" conforms to several points in Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation. 3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact. 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. The assertion that "everybody would know" is a generalization at conflict with the known level of secrecy and compartmentalization that operates in government Intelligence Agencies. It is a straw man because it erects a distraction and attempts to equate the straw man with reality. This type of argument also indirect seeks to imply 12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
Cheers from all the punks and cowards whom perpetrated this disaster minutes after the event occured. And, here you are arguing that some inside government group backed by (Rothchilds????? Wall_Street????? BIG_BANKERS?????? UFO_human_body_snatchers?????) were in on it....
You mean these folks? The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11
uh huh .....
The Five Dancing Israelis ...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy. A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11. Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2) "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3) Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6) One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News: (*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms") Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey. According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers: Why did he feel Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD? The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11) The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001: American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (13) It was reported the van contained tonnes of explosives (14). What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel. But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel. It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five. Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re- crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play. From there, the story gets becomes even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks. A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21). The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24) It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario: 2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. 3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices. 4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture. 5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs. 6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly. Osama bin Laden was immediately blamed for the 9/11 attacks even though he had no previous record of doing anything on this scale. Immediately after the Flight 11 hit World Trade Center 1 The compliant mainstream media completely ignored the Israeli connection. Immediately following the 9-11 attacks the media was filled with stories linking the attacks to bin Laden. TV talking-heads, "experts", and scribblers of every stripe spoon-fed a gullible American public a steady diet of the most outrageous propaganda imaginable. We were told that the reason bin Laden attacked the USA was because he hates our "freedom" and "democracy". The Muslims were "medieval" and they wanted to destroy us because they envied our wealth, were still bitter about the Crusades, and were offended by Britney Spears shaking her tits and ass all over the place! But bin Laden strongly denied any role in the attacks and suggested that Zionists orchestrated the You never heard that quote on your nightly newscast did you? Bin Laden is not named as the perpetrator of 9/11 by the FBI: When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page (30), [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” (31) To date, the only shred of “evidence” to be uncovered against bin Laden is a barely audible fuzzy amateur video that the Pentagon just happened to find "lying around" in Afghanistan. How very convenient, and how very fake. (33) There is no evidence, be it hard or circumstantial, to link the Al Qaeda "terrorist network" to these acts of terror, but there is a mountain of evidence, both hard and circumstantial, which suggests that Zionists have been very busy framing Arabs for terror plots against America. If the sovereign foreign government mentioned by Senator Graham was an enemy of the United States the "compelling evidence" would not be kept secret for 20+ years. One final point; at 09:40 on 9-11 it was reported that the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attacks (35). This claim was immediately denied by the DFLP leader Qais abu Leila who said it had always opposed "terror attacks on civilian targets, especially outside the occupied territories." (36) Why would a Palestinian organisation comprising of less than 500 people (37) make the suicidal move of immediately claiming responsibility for the attacks? The implication of Palestinians in the 9/11 attacks would have handed Zionists a golden opportunity to achieve the above because all Palestinians would have been labelled terrorists. US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring. See also: Federal Assistance to Recipient URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS INC
And?
Seems like you were placing the blame on the Palestinians, just like your good buddies the Israeli Mossad had tried to do...
What happened to your "dancing MOSSAD" squadron? Detained for five months? Hmmmm. [edit: apparently the "planners" had a hole in their respective shoes]
The fact that they had their cameras setup BEFORE the first impact, high fived each other and lit their Bics in celebration after the planes struck the towers, and tried to setup the blame on Palestinians by phoning in a bomb scare at the Holland Tunnel, and being caught with explosives in their van once their plan backfired, I'd say there's something there. It's even more informative that they were released after high level "officials" worked on their behalf.
Why were they let "off the hook" then?
Go ask Cheney.
Where was he for five months? Golfing? Playing Canasta? Eating steak and potatoes increasing his cholesterol while planning his heart valve for yesterday?
Wasn't keeping tabs on his whereabouts, sorry. Thing is, the local FBI were holding them on REALLY good reasons, it was "higher authority" who eventually cut them loose.
I see. And the CIA (whose charter is ALL about international subterfuge one way or another) had nothing to do with it? I guess you don't remember how fucked-upped the CIA's substantial reports on Iraq's WMD was, correct? Man .... get off of it. This nation is run by clowns voted into office by morons looking for a handout. And the people that have a job to do don't know their asses from a hole in the ground (to use a popular cliché)beyond what they were taught in college and yet you think ANYONE in America is running some sort of clandestine operation/tyranny against Americans? To do so, takes brains .... otherwise known as intellectual capability. The best most bureaucrats can come up with is drool on their own sheepskins as they fell asleep in class for four years.
The CIA was ordered to rewrite their reports, because they didn't say what Cheney wanted them to say. In fact, he STILL wasn't satisified and had Rumsfeld create his own intel agency, the Office of Special Plans, which wrote the sort of reports that Cheney wanted to see.
So what happened to Paul Wolfowitz? He later got the fuck out of the Defense Department under Donny Rumsfeld (both at the Pentagon on 9/11 BTW) and was selected by that dumbshit GWBush to head the WorldBank. Why did Wolfowitz quit the Defense Department? He fucked-upped his make-believe slogan.... "the Iraqi's [shall] be throwing flowers at the feet of our troops in Iraq." Wolfowitz later resigned the WB because he was a literal FUCKUP giving untold hundreds of thousands to his prostitutes, whom he worked with.
Yup, Wolfowitz went from one failure to another. It's all on the record.
No question about it. And some of these posters believe in the capability of US government to plan and execute tyranny? Man, I would rather believe in the Easter bunny working on a Sunday morning delivering chocolate eggs for the good little kiddies.
I bet you do. You believe in other impossible stories, so why not that one as well...
Name them ... even if you can't link 'em.
A) A skyscraper can FALL into its own footprint at near free fall velocity without using controlled explosives. Did I miss anything?
True. False. These terrorists loved American freedoms. In fact, prior to 9/11 several were sited at titty bars, getting drunk and having all kinds of porno .... they were just like the good 'ol boys you may know. Never-the-less, they hated America because of support for Israel and the increasing problems in Palestine. True. Got anymore?
True. You really believe that? If you do then I think you have made the case that there is no reason for anyone to post anything to you more than a cartoon or a music video or something. Anyone who believes stupid $#it like that never uses their head.
Yes I do. GWBush and his immediate predecessor WClinton were informed through the daily briefings about increasing hostile operations evolving in the USA. In fact, there were numerous FBI reports from various field offices that supported the contentions to include the flight training prior to 9/11/01. And yes, the Israeli Mossad had the same data and even their own original data. So what.... none of the assholes in our government did anything. They are too busy having a good time instead of doing their jobs.
None of which makes someone who is incapable---ineffincapable, buck!--of flying a CESSNA, capable of flying a heavy commercial airliner and fly them like an ace pilot in a stunt plane. The very idea is ridiculous beyond belief and anyone who would believe such a thing is beyond gullible and naive.
But, Hanjour didn't fly it. He fucked upped whatever plan he had by attempting to control the craft; flying a craft as AGAviator has suggested means he could competently take-off and land the craft that he was trained for. I provided a link way up @post#171 that you can click on for both REAL and simulated animations of FLT77. He couldn't hit .... and did minor damage when you consider what could have happened with a competent pilot at the helm.
The gubmint said he did, didn't they? And you believe their story, right? Or are you schizo with several personalities, each of them believing a different thing depending on what day it is?
That is publick released knowdge of a "term" to simplify for the uneducated masses the challenge of being at the helm. Of course, YOU believe Hanjour intentionally flew FLT77 into the side of the Pentagon, correct?
I don't believe that anyone who is not capable of flying a little Cessna is capable of performing stunt moves with a big commercial airliner, stunt moves that would take an experienced pilot and most likely a fighter plane to perform.
Hanjour did not competently steer the craft is the point. He was in over his head. The outcome is proof because if Hanjour was competent he WOULD HAVE HIT THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE OR THE INNER SANCTUM OF THE PENTAGON... not perform some stunt maneuver on his way to Allah for you to talk about 9 years later.
Click on the link Former Lurker provided up thread just a bit: Hani Hanjour and Flight 77's Unexplained Expert Maneuvers Experienced air traffic controllers couldn't believe the maneuvers being performed and thought it was a military jet with an experienced pilot.
I can explain his maneuvers that no one else can. Hanjour was shitting in his pants as he came up to his final approach and lost his confidence at the last minute and tried to land the fucking plane to save his life. He couldn't even do that.... but off to paradise he went. Meanwhile, here on the Internet some of you folks believe Hanjour (or whomever attempted to control that craft) was competent.
No buck. That is NOT what we have been trying (without any success it seems) to tell you. He was not competent. He could not fly a Cessna. Should we type slower, do you think that would help?
Here is what Hanjour performed while panicking at the last moment ..... No talent was required on a nice day from Dulles International Airport to the Pentagon.
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.) From the Ohio/Kentucky border, Hanjour then supposedly turned the plane around, set course for Washigton D.C. hundreds of miles away,* and successfully entered the most restricted airspace in the world without eliciting a single military intercept - despite the crash of two other known hijacked aircraft into the WTC, and a missing third, being covered on every radio and television station in the country. "In order to perform this bit of electronic navigation, he would have to be very familiar with (Instrument Flight Rules) procedures. None of these fellows (the alleged hijackers) even knew what a navigational chart looked like, or even how to plug frequencies into NAV/COM radios, much less input information into flight management computers (FMC) and engage LNAV (lateral navigation automated mode). If one is to believe the official story, all of this was supposedly accomplished by raw student pilots while flying blind at 500 MPH over unfamiliar (and practically invisible) terrain, using complex methodologies and employing sophisticated instruments." According to the official account, an unidentified aircraft that somebody randomly decided was 'Flight 77' (remember, the transponder needed to identify the aircraft had been turned off) then suddenly pops up over Washington DC out of nowhere and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which "Hanjour" allegedly levels out at ground level. The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O'Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, 'The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.'" (ABC News, 10/24/2001, also archived at www.cooperativeresearch.org) The official story of Hanjour's flight path continues in an even more bizarre narrative. Having successfully entered D.C. airspace, with no idea how soon fighter aircraft would show up to shoot him down, he finds himself pointed in the ideal direction toward the East wing of the Pentagon, where all the top brass in the military are known to be stationed. But then he apparently changes his mind as to his heading, and pulls off that incredible, sweeping 270-degree descending turn at 400+mph to approach the Pentagon from the opposite direction. There, he inexplicably lines up the less valued West wing, which was miraculously scheduled to receive the finishing touches of extensive bomb-blast retrofitting the next day, September 12, leaving it conveniently empty of most of its military employees. "The section known as Wedge 1 (the West Wing) had been under renovation and was scheduled for final completion on Wednesday, September 12th, 2001." *And of course that didn't take any talent, knowledge of aircraft systems or flying skills. Cut out the bs, buck. You have to know better than this stupid $#it you're posting.
Can you do a favor for me? Please ensure that Hanjour in your post (above) was not alone..... he didn't do shit by himself (other crap on himself while attempting to back off from paradise)... There were four or five other terrorists aboard helping the little intellect onto the helm just to blow OTTO!
He didn't do what the official agitprop story claimed with the help of four or five other people either. Because, as has been posted to you over and over and over and over, some of it was IMPOSSIBLE!
Did you hear about the recent LOTTO winner that won four different lottos over time? Now, that is improbable. Is it possible, of course and it happened. Learn statistics sometime..... BISHOP, Texas - July, 14, 2010 — The odds that Joan Ginther would hit four Texas Lottery jackpots for a combined nearly $21 million are astronomical. Mathematicians say the chances are as slim as 1 in 18 septillion — that's 18 and 24 zeros. Just as unlikely? Getting to know one of the luckiest women in the world. "She wants her privacy," friend Cris Carmona said. On a $50 scratch-off ticket bought in this rural farming community, Ginther won $10 million last month in her biggest windfall yet. But it was the fourth winning ticket in Texas for the 63-year-old former college professor since 1993, when Ginther split an $11 million jackpot and became the most famous native in Bishop history. But she's a celebrity who few in this town of 3,300 people can say much about. "That lady is pretty much scarce to everybody," said Lucas Ray Cruz, Ginther's former neighbor. "That's just the way she is." At the Times Marker where Ginther bought her last two winning tickets, the highway gas station is fast becoming a pilgrimage for unlucky lottery losers. Lines stretch deep past a $5.98 bin of Mexican movie DVDs, and a woman from Rhode Island called last week asking to buy tickets from the charmed store through the mail. She was told that was illegal. The woman called back to plead again anyway. The Texas Lottery Commission has seen repeat winners before, but none on the scale of Ginther. Spokesman Bobby Heith said the agency has never investigated Ginther's winnings — three scratch-off tickets and one lottery draw — for possible fraud but described the verification system as thorough. Her other winnings — both from scratch-off tickets — were $2 million in 2006 and $3 million in 2008. So how did Ginther do it, then? Good luck pinning her down to ask. Ginther has never spoken publicly about her lotto winnings and could not be found for comment. She now lives in Las Vegas after moving away from Bishop, and an answering machine message for a telephone number listed at her address says not to leave a message. She asked the few people who've exchanged more than brief pleasantries with her not to grant interviews and sneaked into lottery headquarters in Austin to collect her winnings with the least publicity the state offers jackpot winners. But spend a few hours in her hometown — and equal time scouring public records — and a contrasting profile emerges. Her home address in Las Vegas is on a street called Paradise Drive. When USA Today asked readers in 2000 to sound off on airline service, Ginther groaned over a flight attendant who carted away her cheese and crackers and a sundae too soon. Two years later, she grumbled to the Las Vegas Review-Journal about a proposed monorail running through her exclusive condominium towers. "I moved here because I wanted to have a beautiful home with a great view and that's what I have. I didn't expect to have a monorail come down here with thousands of tourists every day," Ginther told the newspaper, in what might have been the only time she was directly quoted in the media. Nitpicking first-class service, and mad the view in her luxury home might be spoiled? Bishop residents may not know much about Ginther — but they know that's not her. Here around the cotton farms and boarded-up downtown, Ginther, who over the years regularly visited the town to see her father who died in 2007, is called benevolent as much as she's called lucky. They say she bought the church a van. Gave money to the family that runs the Days Inn off the highway. When she moved, she donated her home to charity. Sun Bae, who owns the Time Market and sold Ginther her last two winning tickets, said she drives around in a bland Nissan sedan but once bought a nicer car for someone down on their luck. Bae said Ginther doesn't even own a cell phone. "She is a very generous woman. She's helped so many people," Bae said. Calculating the actual odds of Ginther hitting four multimillion-dollar lottery jackpots is tricky. If Ginther's winning tickets were the only four she ever bought, the odds would be one in 18 septillion, according to Sandy Norman and Eduardo Duenez, math professors at the University of Texas at San Antonio. Exactly how often Ginther plays is unknown. But Norman and Duenez said that a habitual player winning four times over a 17-year span is much less far-fetched. At the Times Market, Bae and store regular Gloria Gonzalez said they've certainly watched Ginther buy her share of tickets over the years. And not just for her. Gonzalez said when her elderly father would sit at the store's window booth and scrub through dollar scratch-offs, Ginther would surprise him with a $50 ream of tickets. "Win, win, win," Ginther would chant, rooting him on. After all, the only way to win is to keep playing. Ginther is smart enough to know that's how you beat the odds: she earned her doctorate from Stanford University in 1976, then spent a decade on faculty at several colleges in California. Teaching math. Is possibilities an incredible consideration?
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
She violated the laws of statistics. : )
There are no replies to Comment # 408. End Trace Mode for Comment # 408.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestDid you know that the cockpit door was NOT opened during all of Flight 77's doomed flight?
#21. To: AGAviator (#18)
#39. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, x-15, christine (#21)
(Edited)
Isn't it just so awful that all these intelligent and well educated people refuse to believe the gubbermint and insist on forming conclusions based on the evidence.
#40. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, buckeroo, turtle, x-15, christine (#39)
The false claim was made that the doors to the cabin did not open, based on amateur cherry-picking of government reports and pointedly excluding statements that don't support k00k blather.
#42. To: FormerLurker, turtle, buckeroo, X-15 (#40)
(Edited)
you're trying to pass off the damaged cockpit voice recorder from Flight 77 as the flight data recorder.
#44. To: AGAviator, turtle, buckeroo, X-15, Original_Intent, christine, ALL (#42)
(Edited)
#45. To: FormerLurker (#44)
#46. To: AGAviator (#45)
#48. To: FormerLurker (#46)
(Edited)
The NTSB data indicates that the COCKPIT DOOR was NOT OPENED during Flight 77's entire flight leading to the Pentagon on 9/11, that is true.
C'mon, posting pictures of a damaged COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER and trying pass it off as the FLIGHT DATA RECORDER?
#50. To: AGAviator (#48)
Neither shows any evidence of cockpit activities. As in zero evidence.
#54. To: FormerLurker (#50)
The data within the MEMORY MODULE was PRESENTED by the NTSB as EVIDENCE of the aircraft's flight data and parameters.
#55. To: AGAviator (#54)
#58. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#55)
(Edited)
The flight data indicates the door was NOT opened, and not only is the cockpit door opened
Even the FBI has indicated that Ted Olzon's wife never spoke to her husband on her cellphone during the flight.
According to the 9/11 Commission Report, 13 passengers from Flight 93 made a total of over 30 calls to both family and emergency personnel (twenty-two confirmed air phone calls, two confirmed cell phone and eight not specified in the report).
#69. To: AGAviator (#58)
Me: Even the FBI has indicated that Ted Olzon's wife never spoke to her husband on her cellphone during the flight.
#83. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#69)
At the Moussaoui trial, the fact that there was only 1 call to Ted Olson from his wife that lasted 0 seconds was presented
#84. To: AGAviator (#83)
Having said that my earlier claim that AA 757s did not have onboard phones was “wrong, at least probably
The 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual: Besides learning about and confirming this letter from Kinder, we also obtained another piece of evidence supporting the conclusion that passengers on AA 77 could not have used onboard phones. One of RB’s colleagues sent him a page from the Boeing 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manual (757 AMM) dated January 28, 2001. This page states that the passenger phone system for the AA 757 fleet had (by that date) been deactivated.24 According to the 757 AMM, in other words, the onboard phones had been deactivated at least seven and a half months prior to 9/11.
United States v. Ted Olson
#106. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#84)
(Edited)
“The records available for the phone calls from American 77 do not allow for a determination of which of [these four calls] represent the two between Barbara and Ted Olson, although the FBI and DOJ believe that all four represent communications between Barbara Olson and her husband’s office."
(1) The conspiracy to send something other than Fight 77 to hit the Pentagon,
And these 5 conspiracies for Flight 11, and the 20+ for all anti war hijacking issues and building destructions, must be maintained at all costs with no dissenting witnesses even among people classified as anti government.
(2) The conspiracy to kill the people on Flight 77 some other way, then mis-identify their DNA remains,
(3) The conspiracy to scatter shredded and burnt 757 American parts over the Pentagon grounds and crash site, directly under the cameras of worldwide coverage without getting detected,
(4) The conspiracy to hide information showing the cabin and voice recorder data of Flight 77 is not available, and
(5) The conspiracy to generate ficticious onboard and cell phone logs and entries showing staff and passenger conversations during the hijackings.
#107. To: AGAviator (#106)
All this arm-waving about cell phones, is to try to obfuscate the voluminous evidence that Flight 11 was hijacked, both because the cabin security was breached and calls were logged and recorded, regardless of what amateurs selectively pick from research reports, and also because those calls describe the people doing the hijackings.
#108. To: FormerLurker (#107)
PROVE that cabin security was breached....An intelligence agency with tons of money could utilize voice synthesis technology to make anyone's voice sound like somebody else's.
#128. To: AGAviator (#108)
even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for, is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
#131. To: RickyJ (#128)
(2) Even though the war the conspiracies are supposed to be done for?
(3) Is lurching towards stagnation, failure, and possibly even world wide defeat.
#133. To: AGAviator (#131)
#136. To: FormerLurker (#133)
#140. To: AGAviator (#136)
#167. To: RickyJ, AGAviator, FormerLurker (#140)
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that.
#172. To: Original_Intent aka Original_Indent, buckeroo, turtle (#167)
(Edited)
(1) A man who played an instrumental role in the guerilla fighting that eventually forced the communists to leave Afghanistan, saying he will do the same thing to the US as to the Russians, following through on his threats by destroying 2 US embassies and several US military facilities over the next decade. But somehow not playing any role in the 911 attacks, because he stayed in some bomb-resistant mountain bases after escaping several volleys of cruise missiles sent to his regular living places, and because briefly he denied being behind the attacks
What a pantload to think that hijacked planes had no consequenes and expect people other than Six Percenters to believe!
(2) Four aircraft reporting hijackings, with 3 of them observed crashing into buildings by hundreds to thousands of observers, not playing any roles in building collapses happening within a few hours, which collapses were instead done by alternative methods,
(3) Major damage to other buildings from the crash debis that happened in New York City,
(4) The release of these 3 crashes of gigajoules of energy which somehow had no effect on the buildings, which are alleged to have been brought down by alternative totally unconnected and difficult to fully explain in detail methods,
(5) Firemen saying they will be "pulling" away from one crash damaged building because "the structural stability is not there,"
(6) Saying that dozens of phone calls recorded and recollected by people during the hijackings didn't ever happen, and
(7) Saying the people who got the remains from forensic DNA analysis didn't actually receive the bodies or body parts of people dying according to the detailed autopsy reports.
#200. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#172)
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that. Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank.
#209. To: Original_Intent (#200)
Public Meltdowns and the use of shaky evidence and outright lies
#218. To: AGAviator (#209)
the hijackings of 3 aircraft by people identified as his followers
#222. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#218)
#228. To: Original_Intent (#222)
I think he needs to relax a bit, but the Sgt. in charge of his PsyOps Unit probably won't let him. Slave driver.
#230. To: FormerLurker (#228)
They probaly have some AI program analyze his comments and responses for "win/fail" scores, and he's not allowed to go to lunch until his score hits a certain level, or drops so low he's given a mandatory timeout.
#235. To: James Deffenbach (#230)
The people who believe the government's insane conspiracy theory MAY be subjects of an Artificial Stupidity program that succeeded beyond the wildest dreams of its creator.
Laura Bush recalls 9/11 panic at White House
updated 9:15 a.m. ET, Wed., May 5, 2010
#241. To: buckeroo (#235)
GWBush couldn't find her there was so much pandemonium.
#247. To: James Deffenbach (#241)
George couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery or find his ass with a map and both hands.
#251. To: buckeroo (#247)
Yeah ... but he planned the successful 9/11 disaster to make way for Afghanistan and Iraq failures didn't he?
#254. To: FormerLurker (#251)
Nobody is saying he planned it, but he [GWBush] DID more than likely go along with it.
#260. To: buckeroo (#254)
Nobody is saying he planned it, but he [GWBush] DID more than likely go along with it.
#265. To: AGAviator (#260)
Ya think Shrub swore fealty to Satan, while a member of that Yale frat that had Geronomo's skull?
On 9/11, the program was put to the test -- and failed. Not on the national security side: Vice President Cheney and others in the national security leadership were smoothly whisked away from the capital following procedures overseen by the Pentagon and the White House Military Office. But like the mass of Washingtonians, officials from other agencies found themselves virtually on their own, unsure of where to go or what to do, or whom to contact for the answers.
#273. To: buckeroo (#265)
The ye ol' Skull&Bones club stikes again... meanwhile, tens of thousands of Washington DC bureaucrats attempted to escape to their appointed bunkers .....
#276. To: AGAviator, buckeroo (#273)
And even here, not one of any USG people who felt hung out to dry on 911, and may have had inklings into the " Mother of All Conspiracies and Cover Ups" has come forward even on deep background to any one of the Twoofersites.
#281. To: FormerLurker (#276)
And even here, not one of any USG people who felt hung out to dry on 911, and may have had inklings into the " Mother of All Conspiracies and Cover Ups" has come forward even on deep background to any one of the Twoofersites.
#285. To: Original_Intent (#281)
"well positively everybody in the world would have had to have been "in the know". Which of course is bogus and easily shown to be bogus.
#287. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, ALL (#285)
Cheers from all the punks and cowards whom perpetrated this disaster minutes after the event occured.
#288. To: FormerLurker (#287)
Our purpose was to document the event.
#291. To: buckeroo (#288)
Arrested On 9- 11
As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question...
The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1) [T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4) "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7) Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab. (8) 
White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9) When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis! "We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10) The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12) 
"...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge." The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20) Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al- Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22) "There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11." (25) Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26) How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11? 1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.
CIA Director George Tenet said "You know, this has bin Laden's fingerprints all over it." (27)
9-11 attacks. The BBC published bin Laden's statement of denial in which he said:"I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." (28) [A] number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved. (29) "So we've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden [sic] was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming" - Dick Cheney. (32) "I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing -- although that was part of it -- by a sovereign foreign government ... It will become public at some point when it's turned over to the archives, but that's 20 or 30 years from now" - Senator Bob Graham. (34) Sharon and the other Israeli leaders aspire to fulfil what the goals of the political Zionist movement have been since its origin a century ago: to turn all of historic Palestine into an exclusively Jewish state. A central tenet of the Zionist ideology is expressed in the racist slogan, "A land without people for a people without a land." (38) "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." 
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
Motto of the Mossad
2002: Police Seize Rental Truck With TNT Traces Driven By Israelis
Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel
Zionist Circles Benefit From WTC Collapse
Israel and 9/11 - Index of What Really Happened
#298. To: FormerLurker (#291)
#299. To: buckeroo (#298)
And?
#300. To: FormerLurker (#299)
(Edited)
just like your good buddies the Israeli Mossad had tried to do...
#302. To: buckeroo (#300)
#303. To: FormerLurker (#302)
The fact that they had their cameras setup BEFORE the first impact, high fived each other and lit their Bics in celebration after the planes struck the towers, and tried to setup the blame on Palestinians by phoning in a bomb scare at the Holland Tunnel, and being caught with explosives in their van once their plan backfired, I'd say there's something there.
#306. To: buckeroo (#303)
Why were they let "off the hook" then?
#309. To: FormerLurker (#306)
#310. To: buckeroo (#309)
Where was he for five months? Golfing? Playing Canasta? Eating steak and potatoes increasing his cholesterol while planning his heart valve for yesterday?
#312. To: FormerLurker (#310)
Thing is, the local FBI were holding them on REALLY good reasons, it was "higher authority" who eventually cut them loose.
#313. To: buckeroo (#312)
I guess you don't remember how fucked-upped the CIA's substantial reports on Iraq's WMD was, correct?
#316. To: FormerLurker (#313)
(Edited)
Office of Special Plans
#318. To: buckeroo (#316)
Wolfowitz later resigned the WB because he was a literal FUCKUP giving untold hundreds of thousands to his prostitutes, whom he worked with.
#320. To: AGAviator (#318)
Yup, Wolfowitz went from one failure to another. It's all on the record.
#322. To: buckeroo (#320)
I would rather believe in the Easter bunny working on a Sunday morning delivering chocolate eggs for the good little kiddies.
#326. To: FormerLurker (#322)
You believe in other impossible stories
#331. To: buckeroo (#326)
(Edited)
Name them ... even if you can't link 'em.
B) 19 mad arabs, who hated us for our freedoms, twarted all US intelligence agencies, plotted and executed simultaneous aerial attacks upon key US landmarks, including the hub of the US financial district in New York, and the hub of the US military in Washington DC, while evading US defenses for over an hour. Oh, and they also survived the crashes and are alive and well.
C) An inept student pilot who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna was able to commandeer and navigate a large heavy multi-engine commercial airliner, plotting a course from no specific point over Ohio to Washington DC at 35,000 feet, descend and turn the aircraft similar to a military fighter jet, fly the aircraft at treetop level for about a mile at over 400 mph, and defy the laws of physics and aerodynamics by bringing the aircraft down to 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph and impacting the Pentagon dead-on.
#334. To: FormerLurker (#331)
A) A skyscraper can FALL into its own footprint at near free fall velocity without using controlled explosives.
B) 19 mad arabs, who hated us for our freedoms, twarted all US intelligence agencies, plotted and executed simultaneous aerial attacks upon key US landmarks, including the hub of the US financial district in New York, and the hub of the US military in Washington DC, while evading US defenses for over an hour. Oh, and they also survived the crashes and are alive and well.
C) An inept student pilot who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna was able to commandeer and navigate a large heavy multi-engine commercial airliner, plotting a course from no specific point over Ohio to Washington DC at 35,000 feet, descend and turn the aircraft similar to a military fighter jet, fly the aircraft at treetop level for about a mile at over 400 mph, and defy the laws of physics and aerodynamics by bring the aircraft down to 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph and impact the Pentagon dead-on.
#337. To: buckeroo, Former Lurker, Original_Intent (#334)
C) An inept student pilot who couldn't fly a single engine Cessna was able to commandeer and navigate a large heavy multi-engine commercial airliner, plotting a course from no specific point over Ohio to Washington DC at 35,000 feet, descend and turn the aircraft similar to a military fighter jet, fly the aircraft at treetop level for about a mile at over 400 mph, and defy the laws of physics and aerodynamics by bring the aircraft down to 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph and impact the Pentagon dead-on.
#339. To: James Deffenbach (#337)
You really believe that?
#341. To: buckeroo (#339)
GWBush and his immediate predecessor WClinton were informed through the daily briefings about increasing hostile operations evolving in the USA. In fact, there were numerous FBI reports from various field offices that supported the contentions to include the flight training prior to 9/11/01.
#349. To: James Deffenbach, AGAviator (#341)
None of which makes someone who is incapable---ineffincapable, buck!--of flying a CESSNA, capable of flying a heavy commercial airliner and fly them like an ace pilot in a stunt plane. The very idea is ridiculous beyond belief and anyone who would believe such a thing is beyond gullible and naive.
#352. To: buckeroo (#349)
But, Hanjour didn't fly it.
#355. To: James Deffenbach (#352)
The gubmint said he did, didn't they?
#360. To: buckeroo (#355)
Of course, YOU believe Hanjour intentionally flew FLT77 into the side of the Pentagon, correct?
#365. To: James Deffenbach (#360)
I don't believe that anyone who is not capable of flying a little Cessna is capable of performing stunt moves with a big commercial airliner, stunt moves that would take an experienced pilot and most likely a fighter plane to perform.
#372. To: buckeroo (#365)
Hanjour did not competently steer the craft is the point.
#377. To: James Deffenbach (#372)
Hani Hanjour and Flight 77's Unexplained Expert Maneuvers
#386. To: buckeroo (#377)
He couldn't even do that.... but off to paradise he went. Meanwhile, here on the Internet some of you folks believe Hanjour (or whomever attempted to control that craft) was competent.
#391. To: James Deffenbach (#386)
He was not competent. He could not fly a Cessna. Should we type slower, do you think that would help?
#396. To: buckeroo (#391)
No talent was required on a nice day from Dulles International Airport to the Pentagon.
#397. To: James Deffenbach (#396)
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.)
#399. To: buckeroo (#397)
he didn't do shit by himself
#401. To: James Deffenbach (#399)
Because, as has been posted to you over and over and over and over, some of it was IMPOSSIBLE!
Published July 14, 2010, AP
#402. To: buckeroo (#401)
(Edited)
#408. To: James Deffenbach (#402)
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
Replies to Comment # 408.
