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Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 27998
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
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#395. To: Original_Intent (#393)
OK, Squirmy.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.) From the Ohio/Kentucky border, Hanjour then supposedly turned the plane around, set course for Washigton D.C. hundreds of miles away,* and successfully entered the most restricted airspace in the world without eliciting a single military intercept - despite the crash of two other known hijacked aircraft into the WTC, and a missing third, being covered on every radio and television station in the country. "In order to perform this bit of electronic navigation, he would have to be very familiar with (Instrument Flight Rules) procedures. None of these fellows (the alleged hijackers) even knew what a navigational chart looked like, or even how to plug frequencies into NAV/COM radios, much less input information into flight management computers (FMC) and engage LNAV (lateral navigation automated mode). If one is to believe the official story, all of this was supposedly accomplished by raw student pilots while flying blind at 500 MPH over unfamiliar (and practically invisible) terrain, using complex methodologies and employing sophisticated instruments." According to the official account, an unidentified aircraft that somebody randomly decided was 'Flight 77' (remember, the transponder needed to identify the aircraft had been turned off) then suddenly pops up over Washington DC out of nowhere and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which "Hanjour" allegedly levels out at ground level. The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O'Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, 'The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.'" (ABC News, 10/24/2001, also archived at www.cooperativeresearch.org) The official story of Hanjour's flight path continues in an even more bizarre narrative. Having successfully entered D.C. airspace, with no idea how soon fighter aircraft would show up to shoot him down, he finds himself pointed in the ideal direction toward the East wing of the Pentagon, where all the top brass in the military are known to be stationed. But then he apparently changes his mind as to his heading, and pulls off that incredible, sweeping 270-degree descending turn at 400+mph to approach the Pentagon from the opposite direction. There, he inexplicably lines up the less valued West wing, which was miraculously scheduled to receive the finishing touches of extensive bomb-blast retrofitting the next day, September 12, leaving it conveniently empty of most of its military employees. "The section known as Wedge 1 (the West Wing) had been under renovation and was scheduled for final completion on Wednesday, September 12th, 2001." *And of course that didn't take any talent, knowledge of aircraft systems or flying skills. Cut out the bs, buck. You have to know better than this stupid $#it you're posting.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Can you do a favor for me? Please ensure that Hanjour in your post (above) was not alone..... he didn't do shit by himself (other crap on himself while attempting to back off from paradise)... There were four or five other terrorists aboard helping the little intellect onto the helm just to blow OTTO!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There actually was a little of that, but only up to the point where the building base lost its rigidity, to hold the upper section laterally at a substantially less than vertical angle. Pictures clearly the upper part of one building tilted towards the gap caused by the entry of the fuselage. However when gravity took over the rotation angle stopped and the whole top section started falling straightdown from where the connection bertween top and bottom broke apart. An additional problem comes from the building base containing enough structural rigidity to withstand the horizontal component of the upper section rotating against it at a less than 90 degree angle. The building base would have to supply an equal and opposite horizontal component to the rotating and falling vertical section's. Your problem comes from confusing a building which is 95% air with a solidly planted and cut tree which is 100% cellulose. A heavy but 95% air by volume item will tend to break apart when rotated onto its side. A solid 100% cellulose through and through will fall like solid trees fall. Buildings are not trees, and trees are not buildings, wanna be. Eager is educated enough to know that, you are not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He didn't do what the official agitprop story claimed with the help of four or five other people either. Because, as has been posted to you over and over and over and over, some of it was IMPOSSIBLE!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Did you hear about the recent LOTTO winner that won four different lottos over time? Now, that is improbable. Is it possible, of course and it happened. Learn statistics sometime..... BISHOP, Texas - July, 14, 2010 — The odds that Joan Ginther would hit four Texas Lottery jackpots for a combined nearly $21 million are astronomical. Mathematicians say the chances are as slim as 1 in 18 septillion — that's 18 and 24 zeros. Just as unlikely? Getting to know one of the luckiest women in the world. "She wants her privacy," friend Cris Carmona said. On a $50 scratch-off ticket bought in this rural farming community, Ginther won $10 million last month in her biggest windfall yet. But it was the fourth winning ticket in Texas for the 63-year-old former college professor since 1993, when Ginther split an $11 million jackpot and became the most famous native in Bishop history. But she's a celebrity who few in this town of 3,300 people can say much about. "That lady is pretty much scarce to everybody," said Lucas Ray Cruz, Ginther's former neighbor. "That's just the way she is." At the Times Marker where Ginther bought her last two winning tickets, the highway gas station is fast becoming a pilgrimage for unlucky lottery losers. Lines stretch deep past a $5.98 bin of Mexican movie DVDs, and a woman from Rhode Island called last week asking to buy tickets from the charmed store through the mail. She was told that was illegal. The woman called back to plead again anyway. The Texas Lottery Commission has seen repeat winners before, but none on the scale of Ginther. Spokesman Bobby Heith said the agency has never investigated Ginther's winnings — three scratch-off tickets and one lottery draw — for possible fraud but described the verification system as thorough. Her other winnings — both from scratch-off tickets — were $2 million in 2006 and $3 million in 2008. So how did Ginther do it, then? Good luck pinning her down to ask. Ginther has never spoken publicly about her lotto winnings and could not be found for comment. She now lives in Las Vegas after moving away from Bishop, and an answering machine message for a telephone number listed at her address says not to leave a message. She asked the few people who've exchanged more than brief pleasantries with her not to grant interviews and sneaked into lottery headquarters in Austin to collect her winnings with the least publicity the state offers jackpot winners. But spend a few hours in her hometown — and equal time scouring public records — and a contrasting profile emerges. Her home address in Las Vegas is on a street called Paradise Drive. When USA Today asked readers in 2000 to sound off on airline service, Ginther groaned over a flight attendant who carted away her cheese and crackers and a sundae too soon. Two years later, she grumbled to the Las Vegas Review-Journal about a proposed monorail running through her exclusive condominium towers. "I moved here because I wanted to have a beautiful home with a great view and that's what I have. I didn't expect to have a monorail come down here with thousands of tourists every day," Ginther told the newspaper, in what might have been the only time she was directly quoted in the media. Nitpicking first-class service, and mad the view in her luxury home might be spoiled? Bishop residents may not know much about Ginther — but they know that's not her. Here around the cotton farms and boarded-up downtown, Ginther, who over the years regularly visited the town to see her father who died in 2007, is called benevolent as much as she's called lucky. They say she bought the church a van. Gave money to the family that runs the Days Inn off the highway. When she moved, she donated her home to charity. Sun Bae, who owns the Time Market and sold Ginther her last two winning tickets, said she drives around in a bland Nissan sedan but once bought a nicer car for someone down on their luck. Bae said Ginther doesn't even own a cell phone. "She is a very generous woman. She's helped so many people," Bae said. Calculating the actual odds of Ginther hitting four multimillion-dollar lottery jackpots is tricky. If Ginther's winning tickets were the only four she ever bought, the odds would be one in 18 septillion, according to Sandy Norman and Eduardo Duenez, math professors at the University of Texas at San Antonio. Exactly how often Ginther plays is unknown. But Norman and Duenez said that a habitual player winning four times over a 17-year span is much less far-fetched. At the Times Market, Bae and store regular Gloria Gonzalez said they've certainly watched Ginther buy her share of tickets over the years. And not just for her. Gonzalez said when her elderly father would sit at the store's window booth and scrub through dollar scratch-offs, Ginther would surprise him with a $50 ream of tickets. "Win, win, win," Ginther would chant, rooting him on. After all, the only way to win is to keep playing. Ginther is smart enough to know that's how you beat the odds: she earned her doctorate from Stanford University in 1976, then spent a decade on faculty at several colleges in California. Teaching math. Is possibilities an incredible consideration?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I wager she wet and/or shit her britches just as Hanjour did screaming, ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH! to his own death.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I think maybe you need some sleep or a "time out" somewhere that your meds can be adjusted and the nice men in white coats can look after you.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Oh.. so, that's your rebuff is it? Can't take the FACTS about your own posts?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You positing what some woman may or may not have done and some stunt pilot who couldn't fly a Cessna screeching ALLAH, ALLAH, ALLAH, are "facts"? Only in buckeroo world.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Yes... in buckeroo's world the improbability of these events are such as to think about the ramifications .... Jimmy, what would you do if you just won $21M or happened to crash (note: not fly) a REAL jet airliner? Rhetorically, sit there because you were well trained and acclimated to the tremendous changes about to happen? Perhaps, make a thread to 4um about a picture you once saw with a beautiful home in the background and a couple streaming by in a canoe? What would you plan to do as opposed to actually perform?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
She violated the laws of statistics. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Your average citizen doesn't quite understand the laws of physics and the mathematics of probability are not related. All established laws of physics aren't open to the possibility that they might once in a great while not work, they work all the time. If they ever didn't work, even once, then they would cease being laws and we would have to back to the drawing board to find out what is going on. The sad state of education in this nation, and unfortunately around the world, has made it easy for rulers to get their way. It is not by chance though, it is by design that education is so pitiful.
God is always good!
Which vertical steel core had a major structural failure from an aircaft fuselage coming in over 400 mph and making a big hole in it, flockwit.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Buildings are not trees, and trees are not buildings, wanna be. Eager is educated enough to know that, you are not. Are either you or Eager intelligent enough to know that the steel core was not air? It's impossible for the steel core to have pancaked, but apparently you're hoping people are unaware that there WAS a steel core.
Do you have pictures of the steel core damage prior to the collapse? Obviously not. The steel core columns were made of thick hardened steel, and would have sliced the airplane's thin aluminum body like a cheese cutter slices cheese. Idiot.
And that's why he could never have flown it from Ohio to Washington DC, much less descend down to ground level without crashing it into the highway or some residential neighborhood. Even if he had accomplished the impossible (considering his lack of abilities) and gotten down to say 100 feet off the ground flying level, he either would have overshot the Pentagon or crashed into the lawn attempting to dive from 100 feet up to 20 feet off the ground at 530 mph. His ONLY possible chance of success would have been a nose dive from several thousand feet up right into the roof of the Pentagon, instead he executed a precision high speed diving turn and accomplished the impossible, flying a 757 at tree top level for a mile at over 400 mph, then descending to 20 feet, leveling, and hitting the wall of the Pentagon straight on at 530 mph, where a 757 can't possibly behave that way.
It is designed to hold up its own weight when all its columns are intact and all upper sections are not subjected to additional forces other than those specified in the design. It is not designed to hold up weight when columns are severed, structural steel is stripped of fireproofing and gets unevenly heated to the point where some sections lose their design strength, torques and torsions are subsequently introduced, floors above start pancaking due to their own structural failures, and floor-by-floor pancaking collapses introduce momentum and kinetic energy transfers. Maybe in your preschool physics the only factor is design. That's not how real world physics operates. Real world physics uses knowledge you use to make patents from the likes of Eager, instead of empty words ignorant boneheads post on k00ksite forums, and then trash Eager who actually does something useful with what he knows. No, what's sad is there are people stupid enough to believe that an aircraft traveling over 400 mph hits a building causing fires and serious substantial damage, and within a couple hours the building collapses, but the aircraft crash is said to have played no role in the collapse. Beyond stupid.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So that's why a soft lead bullet traveling hundreds of miles per hour won't even slightly penetrate any piece of solid metal in its path, I take it, brainless?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The upper floors never pancaked. In fact there was (no) pancaking at all. Have you not seen the video? Have you not seen pictures of ground zero? The buildings were disintegrated. What do you think all that dust was about? There was no pile of 110 stories of "pancaked" floors to be seen after, now was there? Anyone who thinks airplanes could do that is just dumb. And even dumber for trying to convince those smarter than him otherwise.
So that's why a soft lead bullet traveling hundreds of miles per hour won't even slightly penetrate any piece of solid metal in its path, I take it, brainless? Dude. Are you serious?
Do you know the difference between an elastic and an inelastic collision? Being that the floors were pulverized, the collision was inelastic, meaning that some of the kinetic energy from the collision was lost in the transfer into other forms of energy, such as that required to pulverize the floor, and heat. Thus, the kinetic energy cannot be tracked as if there were no loss, and your insistance that it can is false. You shouldn't be speaking about things you have no clue about.
LOL I love movie references.
Name calling is juvenile.
You:So that's why a soft lead bullet traveling hundreds of miles per hour won't even slightly penetrate any piece of solid metal in its path, I take it, brainless? Are you that dumb that you equate a hollow aluminum body with a solid lead bullet? A car is a much better example of an airplane body, as it isn't solid lead. Look at some cars that have hit both wooden and metal telephone poles.. The steel cores of the WTC towers were MUCH harder and stronger than any telephone pole, metal or otherwise.
Get down. Come with me if you want to live. I'll be back. Like that? ;-)
Unfortunately, I think he is and truly believes that an aircraft is made of solid lead.
They're not? lol
Like that? Yeah like that.
Name calling is juvenile.
I'm sure some are.... ;-)
I'll give you some "movie references" sugar honey baby darlin. Let's pm.
LOL I wanted to come up with a witty one in reply but my mind went blank!
Name calling is juvenile.
What we have here is failure to communicate!
Name calling is juvenile.
LOL
Go ahead. Make my day.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Do you feel lucky? Well do ya punk?
Name calling is juvenile.
My favorite movie quote: Name calling is juvenile.
All ahead Warp Factor 9.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Make it so. oh that reminds me. i got to look something up real quick.
Name calling is juvenile.
Beam me up, Scotty
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAnd stop calling me Surely.
#396. To: buckeroo (#391)
No talent was required on a nice day from Dulles International Airport to the Pentagon.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#397. To: James Deffenbach (#396)
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.)
#398. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#361)
(Edited)
If there was structural degradation due to heat, it would NOT have been uniform, and the top of the tower would have sagged to one side, causing huge lateral forces to snap any weakened sections, then broken off, sliding downwards on an angle out away from the structure.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#399. To: buckeroo (#397)
he didn't do shit by himself
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#400. To: All (#399)
(Edited)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#401. To: James Deffenbach (#399)
Because, as has been posted to you over and over and over and over, some of it was IMPOSSIBLE!
Published July 14, 2010, AP
#402. To: buckeroo (#401)
(Edited)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#403. To: James Deffenbach (#402)
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
#404. To: buckeroo (#403)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#405. To: James Deffenbach (#404)
I think maybe you need some sleep or a "time out" somewhere that your meds can be adjusted and the nice men in white coats can look after you.
#406. To: buckeroo (#405)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#407. To: James Deffenbach (#406)
You positing what some woman may or may not have done and some stunt pilot who couldn't fly a Cessna screeching ALLAH, ALLAH, ALLAH, are "facts"? Only in buckeroo world.
#408. To: James Deffenbach (#402)
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
#409. To: James Deffenbach (#402)
Did the woman winning the lottery four times, improbable as it would seem, violate the laws of physics?
#410. To: FormerLurker (#368)
There were heavy vertical steel columns, and a heavy vertical steel core, idiot.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#411. To: AGAviator (#398)
A heavy but 95% air by volume item will tend to break apart when rotated onto its side. A solid 100% cellulose through and through will fall like solid trees fall.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#412. To: AGAviator (#410)
Which vertical steel core had a major structural failure from an aircaft fuselage coming in over 400 mph and making a big hole in it, flockwit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#413. To: buckeroo (#388)
(Edited)
I understand your point. The issue *IS* Hanjour was not an experienced pilot with any training or capability of and about flying a 757... you know this, EVERYONE knows this.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#414. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#368)
The structure needs to hold up AT LEAST it's own weight, where you and your pal are trying to say any sort of added vertical force is going to crush the building as if it were made of egg shells.
It's sad that there are people stupid enough to believe that.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#415. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#412)
The steel core columns were made of thick hardened steel, and would have sliced the airplane's thin aluminum body like a cheese cutter slices cheese.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#416. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, *9-11* (#414)
(Edited)
floors above start pancaking due to their own structural failures, and floor-by-floor pancaking collapses introduce momentum and kinetic energy transfers.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#417. To: AGAviator, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#415)
The steel core columns were made of thick hardened steel, and would have sliced the airplane's thin aluminum body like a cheese cutter slices cheese.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#418. To: AGAviator (#414)
(Edited)
Maybe in your preschool physics the only factor is design. That's not how real world physics operates.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#419. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#393)
And stop calling me Surely.
#420. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, turtle, wudidiz (#415)
(Edited)
Me: The steel core columns were made of thick hardened steel, and would have sliced the airplane's thin aluminum body like a cheese cutter slices cheese.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#421. To: farmfriend (#419)
(Edited)
I love movie references.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#422. To: wudidiz (#417)
Are you serious?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#423. To: FormerLurker (#422)
Unfortunately, I think he is and truly believes that an aircraft is made of solid lead.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#424. To: wudidiz (#421)
Get down. Come with me if you want to live. I'll be back.
#425. To: FormerLurker (#422)
an aircraft is made of solid lead.
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#426. To: farmfriend (#424)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#427. To: wudidiz (#426)
Let's pm.
#428. To: wudidiz (#426)
#429. To: farmfriend (#428)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
#430. To: farmfriend (#428)
#431. To: Original_Intent (#430)
Go ahead. Make my day.
#432. To: Original_Intent, wudidiz (#430)
Gentlemen, Congratulations. You're everything we've come to expect from years of government training.
#433. To: farmfriend (#431)
#434. To: Original_Intent (#433)
#435. To: farmfriend, Original_Intent (#434)
“It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone.” ~ Rose F. Kennedy
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