See other 9/11 Articles
Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
Ping List: *9-11* Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 29516
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
(1 image)
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-782) not displayed.
.
.
.
#783. To: GreyLmist, AGAviator (#153)
Whatever hit the pentagon appears at about :25 to :27 if paused it can clearly be seen. It is very low to the ground so that if it was an airliner there would have been damage to the lawn. It is sharp on the front like a missile. It doesn't look like an airliner. Too small anyway.
Creepy. From various sources: Daffodil - Narcissus pseudonarcissus; narcissistic. asphodel 1590s, from L. asphodelus , from Gk. asphodelos, of unknown origin (see daffodil). Taken in poetic use for a mythical deathless flower that overspreads the Elysian meadows. The name 'daffodil' is thought to be derived from the Greek 'asphodel' - a flower which doesn't look anything like the daffodil. Asphodels were associated with the dead, and were often planted around graves. One section of the Greek afterworld was called Asphodel Meadows; this was essentially a plain of asphodels, and was where the souls of those people who were equally good and bad ended up - in between the Elysian Fields (similar to Heaven) and Tartarus (similar to Hell). Asphodel Meadows was depicted as a land of neutrality, a less perfect version of life on earth, and a place that upon entry individuals lose their identities and become machine-like.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
I suspect that name is like a coded "joke" and that's why I'm flagging abraxas to this posting who asked a galaxy question. Han(plane)jour en plein jour Han - Chinese: The Milky Way; The Heavenly River
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Excerpts from: View Is Great When Flying Over the Hudson, but Changes Come Fast - NYTimes.com the low-altitude turbulence that can make the sky feel like a potholed dirt road. [sic] hard winds, which can swirl dangerously around the canyons between Manhattan skyscrapers, a phenomenon known as eddy turbulence. For all these reasons, Mr. Sanders does not see the skies over the river as an appropriate destination for inexperienced pilots or those unfamiliar with crowded air space. ___________________ There's a lot of discussions about wind effects on the WTC but not much about the wind current effects on the alleged planes, so I just wanted to post that to get it on the record.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
It is sharp on the front like a missile. It doesn't look like an airliner. Too small anyway. I'm not entirely sure that the wall wasn't renovated to explode inward for some planned exercise at some point but do you think what appears in the video could have been photoshopped in or might have been something propelled towards the wall on a portable track and that's why the lawn doesn't look heat damaged from exhaust?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Carbon arc gougers are like welding erasers. They sound like explosions, vaporize metal, and the residue might even be mistaken for nanothermite. Edit to add: Not saying that would explain everything about the building collapses but could have been part of it, imo.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Oh bs! They take the plans, engineering studies and drawings of two of the tallest buildings in the world (and WTC 7 would be the tallest building in about 33 states iirc) and what? Light a campfire with them and toast marshmallows? Get real, buck, or as close to it as you can. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Interesting theory and very possible I guess. What I know for sure is that it didn't fall because some debris from the other buildings hit it, the Magickal Jet Fuel™ didn't melt it and cause it to fall and the office fires that have never brought down any other high rise didn't bring that one down either.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. LOL!!!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No, we have come up with another couple of possibilities. buck said that it might be that Santa Claus set out early and fell out of his sleigh and hit 7 and/or the Easter Bunny got mad and threw an egg at it. But suppose Santa hit the big ones first and just bounced off onto 7 or the Easter Bunny threw not one, but THREE, eggs? That would account for it!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. But you are making an assumption of a fact not in evidence. You are assuming that he actually has a conscience but folks who defend what the government did that day probably have less of a conscience than Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Excellent post. I guess our fellow posters can't read.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Corect, something can be seen at that time in the video tape. It is traveling too fast for the camera to capture clearly. As far as damage to the lawn, ground effect is strongest right above the earth because of a cushion of air squeezed between the fuselage and the ground.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very interesting, GreyLmist. I'm not believing in any coincidences, so I'm with you on this name analysis. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I'm going with the Santa Sleigh theory. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
OMG!!! You mean Santa's dead?!?!?
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Exactly, this is why we commonly find that the ground is in perfect shape near and around plane crashes, which contradicts that eight miles of wreckage at the other site. These pilots were SO astounding that they could manouver a 757 like a Porshe, turning it on a dime, ignoring the G Force. Astounding. This "ground effect" lures the question of why there ever is ANY plane crashes, other than the ones that impact into objects like buildings, because the plane could just keep on flying in this "ground effect" for miles and miiles until it runs out of gas and gently touches down.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I think the elves had taken it on a joy ride, test run for the busy season. Oh yeah, that's EIGHT HUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNERT!!!!!!!!
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Well stated. Now that I technically cleaned up and explained the mess about the thread topic "the cabin door remaining closed", FormerLurker is coming back asking questions about "my expertise." And an endless spin cycle.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where are the documented detailed plans, charts, blueprints, calculations, white papers, change documentation, BOMs, cost estimates, scheduling, notes of design reviews, ECR,ECOs and quality test data stored? And don't forget engineering and government sign off documentation. Hey pal ..... you lose. Have a ball.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You lose. Actually, way up the post, I recall FormerLurker saying the collapse was near zero seconds. You are correct when considering the ratio of 15/0 ... I would call it infinite, myself. edit: Explain how it took virtually 0 seconds to break every floor truss and smash every external and internal column of both WTC towers. FormerLurker posted on 2010-07-16 14:08:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That would be just like the sick sob's who perpetrated this to think it was all a joke. Must make their sycophants and water carriers really happy.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I haven't lost anything. You know better than the $#it you're posting unless you are a complete imbecile. You have to know that all those plans and drawings were not thrown away and that the people who planned it and designed it would have copies of the plans. And if they are already dead their heirs would have copies of all of that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You lose. Once the upper support structure lost stability, the upper floors collapsed straight down. It took no external explosives at all or controlled demolition as you call it. So show in any photograph or video that the towers were brought down by intentionally placed explosives. You can't other than what "appears" as debis or previously pulverized mass from the upper floors cascading the effect upon the lower floors.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Where is this magical, mythical vault of official documentation controlled and stored? In your mind?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
A better method would be to delay the explosions slightly in order to avoid that problem. Oh, this is getting so rich. If the facts are said to match the model, then it's a conspiracy, and if the facts don't match the model, it's still a conspiracy but one in which "they" don't want a too-obvious match with the model. Woo hoo!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're a retard if you think they threw all that away.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. If you want an authoritative opinion about the "crush down phase" of the twin tower collapse (free of charge and on-line), check this out: Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions by Zdenfk P. Bažant, F.ASCE1; and Mathieu Verdure ... pretty cool reading.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So, that picture/commentary undeniably and unquestionably proves that explosives other than the initial trigger mechanism (de plane! de plane!) caused the collapse?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
But when pictures/commentary conclude there was no CD, they're undeniably and unquestionably products of the masters of special effects....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am amazed at this thread. You took a rather bold approach to provide a factual explanation towards the collapse..... and you withstood the onslaught of piles of posts that attempted to rile you up. Man, do you have patience.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The plane impacts didn't cause the towers to fall. The fires didn't either. As you have been told (repeatedly) the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a plane collision and the subsequent fires. The engineers would have had to take that into account since the Empire State Building had been hit by a plane some years earlier and well before construction ever began on the WTC towers (the crash into the Empire State Building happened in 1945 and it was hit by a B-25--and it had fuel too and the building caught on fire BUT it didn't collapse!).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Man, do you have patience. No, he's got bs and talking points that his masters gave him to squawk. Fine company you're keeping there, buck.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I don't care what YOU told me, I have told you the building were designed to handle slow velocity aircraft as in a FOG. BTW, not 757s either.... but a small 707. Your issue is silly. And as for the fires, not a full payload of fuel, another silly issue you bring up.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
AG has yet to show any variation of FACTS. Thank you.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
It's not that hard once you see there's absolutely no merit to the CT arguments and the people pushing them really, truly are laboring under delusions caused by emotional factors. Unlike "scholars" and "truthers" I don't pretend to be a physicist because real world physics is a complex system demanding full discipline and focus. However after outlining mechanics and vectors involved with absorbing impact energy, and also with providing a base for rotating and falling objects, there's no other conclusion than the 2 are mutually exclusive.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are NO records of any upgrades on AAFLT77 and as a result, the craft must be assumed to NOT have had the later -3 FDR capabilities to include your coveted thread title. You lose. This thread is debunked. Officially: Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1 Aircraft Description Serial Number 24602 Type Registration Corporation Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991 Model 757-223 Mode S Code 52072030 Year Manufacturer 1991 Cancel Date 01/14/2002 Reason for Cancellation Destroyed Export To None "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Your issue is silly. And as for the fires, not a full payload of fuel, another silly issue you bring up. Are you saying that the planes that hit the towers (1 and 2) were full of fuel? More of your bs. A full tank was not necessary for the scheduled flights and they don't fill them up unnecessarily. More fuel carried, fewer paying passengers. And you are not arguing with me about the design of the buildings but the engineers. Get it through your skull if you can, those buildings did not fall because of the planes hitting them--none hit WTC7--and no other steel-framed skyscraper has EVER fallen because of fire though many have burned longer and hotter. No steel framed high-rise building has ever collapsed due to fire - due to the high temperatures that would be required to weaken structural steel past it's critical safety margin - even though very large, very hot, and very long-lasting fires have ravaged many steel-structure high-rise buildings. These buildings are all in use today: • Caracas, Venezuela, Oct, 2004, 56 story building, burned for 17 hours over 26 floors Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Doubtful he has posted any FACTS but I have his dumb@$$ on my clown filter. And you keep arguing stupid stuff after you have been told better over and over you will be joining him.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Unlike the jets at WTC, much of the slow flying B-25 didn't penetrate to the center of the building.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments (824 - 913) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#784. To: buckeroo (#235)
(Edited)
[Sen. Ted Kennedy] began by presenting me with a limited-edition print; it was a vase of bright daffodils, a copy of a painting he had created for his wife, Victoria, and given to her on their wedding day. The print was inscribed to me and dated September 11, 2001.
#785. To: James Deffenbach, abraxas (#396)
(Edited)
"Hanjour"
Pronunciation: ä-n;-pla-n;-zhür
French : in broad day
#786. To: RickyJ (#446)
The towers were built to sway in strong winds by design
http://www.nytim es .com/2009/08/12/nyregion/12flight.html
#787. To: wudidiz (#783)
(Edited)
Whatever hit the pentagon appears at about :25 to :27 if paused it can clearly be seen. It is very low to the ground so that if it was an airliner there would have been damage to the lawn.
#788. To: wudidiz (#772)
(Edited)
the vaporization of 4 foot thick steel columns.
#789. To: buckeroo (#653)
The original construction is all done, years ago. What does it matter where any of the technical people are now? The documented plans are gone.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#790. To: A K A Stone (#661)
# rupertmja1 1 month ago Does no one think like me? Think about this. WTC7 fell in the afternoon. If it was dynamited, and it certainly seems so to me, why/ My theory is that the plane that crashed in a field ... think ... it crashed en route ... so ... en route to where. Methinks WTC7. If it hit WTC7 it too could have been blown up in the morning on schedule along with WTC1 and 2. But it wasn't hit - which must haveŒ79; given the 'planners' a big dilemma of leaving a building full of TNT out there.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#791. To: IRTorqued (#677)
the liar movement members have more excuses than Doans has pills of the three retards of the liar movement on this web site only turtle has the sense to hide in his shell. bucky's posts are akin to whiny school girl drivel who keeps getting her butt handed to her in a did to did not contest.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#792. To: FormerLurker (#694)
It sure don't look like "pancakes" had anything to do with what happened to the WTC towers..
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#793. To: Original_Intent (#734)
Methinks that AGGravator doth protest too much. He knows the "Official Fairy Tale®" is bogus, and I think half of what is driving him crazy is the knowledge that he is defending a lie and aiding murdering criminals who coldly murdered 3,000 people to create a political climate where they could then kill another 3 to 5 million. That has got to be an awful weight on one's conscience.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#794. To: AGAviator (#643)
#795. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle (#783)
Whatever hit the pentagon appears at about :25 to :27 if paused it can clearly be seen. It is very low to the ground so that if it was an airliner there would have been damage to the lawn.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#796. To: GreyLmist (#785)
#797. To: wudidiz (#783)
It doesn't look like an airliner. Too small anyway.
#798. To: abraxas (#797)
I'm going with the Santa Sleigh theory. : )
#799. To: AGAviator (#795)
As far as damage to the lawn, ground effect is strongest right above the earth because of a cushion of air squeezed between the fuselage and the ground.
#800. To: Turtle (#798)
(Edited)
OMG!!! You mean Santa's dead?!?!?
#801. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#518)
Just more accusations, denials of thousands of other people's far more fact-based research, and attacking people who don't side with them 100% instead of the problem itself.
#802. To: James Deffenbach (#789)
Oh bs! They take the plans, engineering studies and drawings of two of the tallest buildings in the world (and WTC 7 would be the tallest building in about 33 states iirc) and what? Light a campfire with them and toast marshmallows? Get real, buck, or as close to it as you can.
#803. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#724)
(Edited)
15 seconds and 22 seconds are nowhere close to 9 seconds. They're an order of magnitude slower.
#502. To: AGAviator (#479)
#804. To: GreyLmist (#785)
I suspect that name is like a coded "joke" and that's why I'm flagging abraxas to this posting who asked a galaxy question.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#805. To: buckeroo (#802)
Hey pal ..... you lose. Have a ball.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#806. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#737)
To: AGAviator BTW slick, IF the towers HAD fallen at freefall speed then it WOULD be obvious to all but the most brain dead that explosives WERE used.
#807. To: James Deffenbach (#805)
You have to know that all those plans and drawings were not thrown away and that the people who planned it and designed it would have copies of the plans.
#808. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#737)
IF the towers HAD fallen at freefall speed then it WOULD be obvious to all but the most brain dead that explosives WERE used.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#809. To: buckeroo (#807)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#810. To: buckeroo (#806)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#811. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, James James Deffenbach (#808)
Woo hoo!!
#812. To: James Deffenbach (#810)
#813. To: buckeroo (#812)
So, that picture/commentary undeniably and unquestionably proves that explosives other than the initial trigger mechanism (de plane! de plane!) caused the collapse?
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#814. To: AGAviator (#813)
#815. To: buckeroo (#812)
So, that picture/commentary undeniably and unquestionably proves that explosives other than the initial trigger mechanism (de plane! de plane!) caused the collapse?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#816. To: buckeroo (#814)
I am amazed at this thread. You took a rather bold approach to provide a factual explanation towards the collapse..... and you withstood the onslaught of piles of posts that attempted to rile you up.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#817. To: James Deffenbach (#815)
As you have been told (repeatedly) the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a plane collision and the subsequent fires.
#818. To: James Deffenbach, AGAviator (#816)
Fine company you're keeping there, buck.
#819. To: buckeroo (#814)
You took a rather bold approach to provide a factual explanation towards the collapse..... and you withstood the onslaught of piles of posts that attempted to rile you up.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#820. To: FormerLurker (#674)
Still waiting for you to post information concerning the data fields recorded on Flight 77's data recorder. Show us the FAA specifications for which data fields are collected, and tie that to the rulings on required upgrades.
Status: - (No safety board investigation) Date: 11 SEP 2001 Time: 09:40 EDT Type: Boeing 757-223 Operator: American Airlines Registration: N644AA C/n / msn: 24602/365 First flight: 1991 Total airframe hrs: 33432 Cycles: 11789 Engines: 2 Rolls Royce RB211-535E4-B Crew: Fatalities: 6 / Occupants: 6 Passengers: Fatalities: 58 / Occupants: 58 Total: Fatalities: 64 / Occupants: 64 Ground casualties: Fatalities: 125 Airplane damage: Written off Airplane fate: Written off (damaged beyond repair) Location: Washington, DC (United States of America) show on map Phase: En route (ENR) Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger Departure airport: Washington-Dulles International Airport, DC (IAD/KIAD), United States of America Destination airport: Los Angeles International Airport, CA (LAX/KLAX), United States of America Flightnumber: 77 Narrative: Flight 77 departed Washington-Dulles at 08:10 for Los Angeles. The aircraft was hijacked by five terrorists. The hijackers took over control, reportedly switched off the transponder and changed course to Washington. Last reported data (08:56) show the aircraft flying at FL350 at 458 knots. Course was changed back to Washington and the aircraft descended for the city, approaching from the North. The Boeing reportedly passed overhead the White House and entered a tight 270deg turn, heading for the US Department of Defence building (the Pentagon). It clipped trees and lightposts before slamming into the Southwest face of the Pentagon. An explosion occurred and the building caught fire.
#821. To: buckeroo (#817)
(Edited)
I don't care what YOU told me, I have told you the building were designed to handle slow velocity aircraft as in a FOG. BTW, not 757s either.... but a small 707.
• Los Angeles, May 1988, 1st Interstate Bank, 62 stories, burned for 3.5 hours over 5 floors
• Philadelphia, Feb, 1991, Meridian Plaza, 38 stories, burned for 18 hours over 8 floors
• New York, Aug, 1970, New York Plaza, 50 stories, burned for six hours
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#822. To: buckeroo (#818)
AG has yet to show any variation of FACTS. Thank you.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#823. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo, turtle (#815)
(Edited)
nd it was hit by a B-25--and it had fuel too and the building caught on fire BUT it didn't collapse!).
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
.
.
.