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Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 29632
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
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#163. To: AGAviator (#145)
That is absolutely correct. There are also sightings of Babara Olson, Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler still walking around. I guess it is possible ...... then again, BIG_FOOT and the Loch Ness Monster (aka NESSIE) are still alive and kicking, too ...... ;) ;)
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
What makes it unusual here is that if the flight deck door remained closed for the entire flight, then obviously the plane was not hijacked. (O)bviously? Let's try this: "Since we know the plane was hijacked obviously the door monitoring equipment wasn't working properly or the data was corrupted in the crash." Now, prove that is untrue if you can. The govt will no doubt take the position that the data proves nothing, and they may be right. If the door was never opened and recorded, then how does one prove that the equipment was functioning in a plane that no longer exists? No need to get excited about this bit of non information. Professional liars will explain it away and dumbed down Americans who have no need to know the truth will accept the explanation, and we'll simply add it to the list of suspicious if not impossible facts and actions that govt asserts, and we cannot make stick in a country brimming with OJ jurors.
That is absolutely correct. There are also sightings of Babara Olson, Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler still walking around Also, why can't "they," who are supposed to be such masters of state-of-the-art technologies, including controlled demolitions of structures over 3 times larger than the largest ones demolished in the history of the world, put together better quality videos and faked news reports. Why videos with only 1-2 frames with plane shots instead of a faster speed film with better locations and better zoom-in zoom outs? After all, "they're" supposed to be masters of special effects. Where are "their" reports from better angles and positions, more frames per second, and greater zoom-in zoom out characteristics? I've provided several links with high quality computer renderings that of course are denied as fakes by the Tw0ffers. All "they" would need to do to produce better fake reports instead of the so-called fakes they currently show is use that same obviously workable technology with highly photographed real imagery, instead of their comuter renderings based on the real imagery to begin with. Why the double work to get an inferior product? "They" obviously have unlimited resources and the best people in the fields. Why the oversight to produce videos that self-tutored CTmeisters can pick apart on thousands of websites across the world, instead of producing something that can be used as evidence in slam-bang court cases?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I saw a few discussions about how GREAT the lawn looked after AMA Flight 77 "landed" on 9/11/2001 on this thread. There is a reason I don't comment..... I am laffing so hard, I can't type. I also have seen some discussion about "the EBIL government" performing this deed. I wonder how the US government could get anyone to fly a jet passenger aircraft into the ground with innocent passengers on-board .... could "they" have offered a maybe a beer and a hotdawg on a stick to the perpetrators if they survived?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank who sat under a tree, was hit in the head with an apple of all things, and then thought it mean't something. Another typical "Conspiracy Theorist". A k00k. And what's with this rate of change stuff? A bunch of gobblydegook that he even had to invent his own mystic symbols to describe. And the Earth is flat "everybody can see that", and rocks don't fall from the sky either.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Well, at least he remembered Flight 75. Right?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Bucky you are such a hoot. Ever see a piece of grass that's been driven over by heavy equipment? What your picture proves, and nothing else, is that heavy equipment tears up turf when they drive on it. Also they had unloaded a bunch of sand on the ground to protect it from too much damage which is all the brown SANDy stuff you see on the ground. The relevant photos are the ones taken early on BEFORE the heavy equipment tore up the pristine lawn.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I've seen incompetent disinfo agents in my day, but you take the prize as THE most incompetent imbecille I've ran into. Doesn't that make you feel special? And buckeroo cheers him (aggravator) on. What to make of that?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Take a peek at this hybrid motion picture ... discussing both REAL and simulated animation of FLT77 ... before talking about how GREAT the lawn looks. Here is the link, you can click on it..... Case Study
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that. Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank. You flockwits are about as far as being from "Sir Isaac Newton" as you can get except for 1 factor - something did bounce off your noggins. I cannot think of a greater exercise in Western civ denying reality and wasting time this side of the Middle Age superstitions. On 911 we have ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (AGAviator) I've repeatedly demonstrated the USG says it has no information about cabin doors, and over 35 total onboard phone and cell phone calls have been logged from the 4 hijacked 911 airplanes on that date, discussing hijackers, seat numbers, and aircraft crew and passenger status. The fact you keep yelling and screaming about your non-existent "proof" the doors weren't opened, when the US GOV says it has no information about door activity, and the messages of calls indicate they were, demonstrates a fixation bordering on neuroticity. They'll say anything other than admit the doors weren't opened. Of course not. To admit the validity of the Flight Data Recorder data instantly invalidates the "Official Conspiracy Theory™". No shill would ever do that. Just as they will NEVER admit the "Official Fairy Tale" about the "Magic Invisble Muslims" who are never shown on any of the surveillance tapes (which are kept locked up in the bowels of the government along with whatever Air Traffic Control Tapes that weren't destroyed the day of 911, next to the videos of the "plane" approaching the Pentagram), the "Magic Mullah" with his "Magic Cellphone" in the "Magic Mountains" of Tora Bora, nor will they admit that the "Magic Jet Fuel" can't burn, reconstitute itself, burn again, and then do it again. The general tactic is to focus the debate upon minutiae which has either been planted or is invalid reasoning and beat it to death while asserting that the poor dead horse being flogged disproves every other point. Which of course it doesn't. The problem the shills have is that they cannot EVER admit that the "Official Fairy Tale" is in error in any detail no matter how small. We only have to be right once to shatter the "Official Conspiracy Theory™", and there are so many points as to have long ago shattered it. At this point, while still important, the physical evidence has been so heavily seeded with false trails and disinfo strawmen that the shills have plenty of room to operate. Where they cannot dispute is some of the more obvious stuff such as the fact that NORAD did not respond competently and there was NEVER an investigation of that, nor was anyone ever disciplined for incompetence. That alone is a hundred foot Red Flag to anyone who has ever worn a uniform. That just does not happen in the military UNLESS someone from above is quashing the investigation.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And I'm crazy to doubt 2000 people got together in an auditorium and came up without dissent the most complex conspiracy in the history of the world, pulled it off perfectly, then all of them disppeared and have never said one word about it. Such loyalty from the worst traitors in the history of the world!
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
Last I heard the Transgronificator was still in the shop.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. LOL! Maybe we should change the aggravator's name to SPAMANATOR.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You WOULD be crazy if that is what you believed. There was no auditorium, and FAR less than "2000 people" involved. However, you would ALSO be crazy if you thought 19 arabs with box cutters, who couldn't even fly a single engine aircraft, commandeered 4 large heavy commercial airliners and not only navigated them but flew them with skill and precision into stationary targets on the ground, while the world's largest military was left wondering what to do about it and failing to do anything to stop them.
And who can't even manage the war they wanted so badly. Remember when Wolfowitz said the Iraq war would pay for itself? And the USA wasn't in a quagmire? And the Taliban had been defeated by the "Afghan government?" But yet these same guys can pull off the biggest conspiracy and mass murder of US citizens in world history, and not a peep of information gets out, and it's successfully covered up for over 8 years without a single person getting a conscience and spilling the beans. And no selective whacking or disappearings of internet critics like Steven Jones, Niels Harritt, David Ray Griffin, or Alex Jones who have made it their life mission to declare "911 was an inside job." Even though "they" weren't supposed to bat an eye killing another 3,000 Americans by skullduggery so advanced that to this day its workings cannot be fully explained in detail. Uh, right. LOLOL.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But there is MORE ... much much MORE! Those same planners whose success about the disaster on 9/11 were not called to aid in either Afghanistan or Iraq .... or anything else. America has been a failure at both domestic AND international strategies ever since since.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Your image shows a bulldozer on the lawn, for one. For two, the images of the Pentagon from the day of 9/11, taken WHILE the Pentagon was still burning, show a bright green lawn with very little if any debris. There were NO skid marks, and NO torn up grass. Are you THAT involved with supporting the official conspiracy that you have to resort to dishonesty here buck? Taking lessons from your AGitprop friend?
Lets stick with FLT77 ... shall we? Hanjour didn't fly the plane with precision. His wild ride shows he was incompetent not even performing his nasty work with any precision.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Take a peek at the link I provided in post#171.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The MIC has gotten everything it wanted in spades, and is still reaping OUTRAGEOUS profit from the deal. You're a fool if you believe otherwise.
It's a simulation of the official story concerning the terminal approach of Flight 77. So what? The lawn was not even kissed by the engines in that simulation, nor was it in real life.
ROTFL ......
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There ARE people who think nothing of killing people, no matter HOW many. It could have been and most likely was highly compartmentalized, where very few actually had full operational awareness, and those who did might not have even been US citizens. Look at the attack on the USS Liberty for instance. Israeli pilots were ordered to fire upon a US ship, and they did. President Johnson aided their attack, and called off fighters which had been scrambled to defend her. Now where was the moral justification in that?
Where are the skid marks buckie? Besides, even the government claims the plane flew right into the building without touching the ground, and the damage to the Pentagon indicates that's exactly what happened.
You might be able to find a few folks to FIGHT for a country. But, you will never find a sane man/woman willing to DIE for a country. Now, that is a fact. But you might be able to find a few people to not just FIGHT but also DIE for a CAUSE (such as religious zealous issues) ......... where in the US do we have any of this sort of homebrew experience?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
um, maybe that was before the firetrucks,and military vehicles arrived. I also have seen some discussion about "the EBIL government" performing this deed. I wonder how the US government could get anyone to fly a jet passenger aircraft into the ground with innocent passengers on-board .... could "they" have offered a maybe a beer and a hotdawg on a stick to the perpetrators if they survived? I'm picking up late on this thread. Surely someone has mentioned this [oh yes, I see noone222 has in #9]: "Electronically Hijacking the WTC Attack Aircraft On Sept. 10 2001, just 24 hours before the WTC attack, The Washington Times ran an article quoting intelligence sources who described Israel’s Mossad as “Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to target US forces and make it look like a Palestinian/Arab act.” Moreover, they said, it was generally known in the intelligence community that the Mossad had penetrated every Muslim organization and would have little problem in finding any number of fanatics to carry out a suicide mission in the belief they were serving Allah. Ed. In the mid-seventies America faced a new and escalating crisis, with US commercial jets being hijacked for geopolitical reasons. Determined to gain the upper hand in this new form of aerial warfare, two American multinationals collaborated with the Defense Advanced Projects Agency (DARPA) on a project designed to facilitate the remote recovery of hijacked American aircraft. Brilliant both in concept and operation, “Home Run” (not its real code name) allowed specialist ground controllers to listen in to cockpit conversations on the target aircraft, then take absolute control of its computerized flight control system by remote means. From that point onwards, regardless of the wishes of the hijackers or flight deck crew, the hijacked aircraft could be recovered and landed automatically at an airport of choice, with no more difficulty than flying a radio-controlled model plane. The engineers had no idea that almost thirty years after its initial design, Home Run’s top secret computer codes would be broken, and the system used to facilitate direct ground control of the four aircraft used in the high-profile attacks on New York and Washington on 11th September 2001. ....." www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=206 I'm thinking this was used at the Pentagram, using a Sky Warrior/missile [? have to check my notes], with the Illusion of a much bigger plane perhaps promulgated by the use of holographic imagery [ edit: freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=120592 comment #12]. Some plane parts entered the Pentagon within the missile. I think the Pentagram was also detonated from within, to ensure the accounting offices were destroyed. Interesting quote from a Rabbi Pinchas Winston on the http://philologos.org site "Misc Study September 11" [sorry I can't provide the URL or the complete quote; too much stuff on my computer].... but it is in regard to the TALL TOWER and the FORTIFIED WALL, taken from Isaiah 2:15. All the indications from a Jewish site point to the belief that the Jews' Talmud considers Christians as "Edom", the enemy of the Israelites, whom God will purportedly destroy. America, being the [former?] stronghold of Christianity [or "Edom" as the Jew's believe], is also to be destroyed, in their fable, for the sake of the Jews. Behind that FORTIFIED WALL were the accountants who were trying to account for the $2.3 Trillion dollars stolen from the defense budget by Dov Zakheim and his dual-citizen Israeli cronies in cahoots with the banksters in "The City" of London. All but a couple of them [edit: the accountants] were holocausted in the attack.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Did you even WATCH the video you linked. The simulation shows the aircraft flying straight and level directly into the Pentagon, WITHOUT hitting or scraping the ground. Thing is, it's physically impossible for a 757 to fly less than 60 feet off the ground at 400+ mph due to ground effect, and Flight 77 is reported to have impacted at 530 mph flying 20 feet off the ground with its engines 3 feet above the lawn. Pretty amazing for a pilot who couldn't fly or land a single engine Cessna.
Show me the money trail. Is the USG part of the MIC? Are you aware the USG is facing bankruptcy and the heed to hyperinflate to pay all its burdens, and China has become a trillion dollar not billion dollar US debt holder? How's the lecture curuit and consulting fees for former USG politicos and DoD bigwigs these days? Any MIC industry stocks at all-time heights? Nope. How about the MIC companies cash flow and income? Are they seeing pressure for cutbacks from Congress because of the unexpected costs of prosecuting the WOT? Did "they" expect the WOT to cost a trillion dollars and go on for the next 10- 15 years in a godforsaken rockpile in Central Asia costing thousands of American lives, and getting dirty with heroin and poppy traffikers? Where do you get your "OUTRAGEOUS profit from the deal. You're a fool if you believe otherwise" talking point, the same talking point spinmeisters you accuse tutoring your critics? Facts, please. Not arm-waving.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nobody perpetrating the attacks had to die, as aircraft are easily controlled electronically using remote control these days.
I never said it landed on the lawn. GOBACK and review the video I provided. Even it claims "unscathed lawn" .... which is the reason, I brought it up; the earlier picture distorts the point. What was all this discussion about a stupid ass lawn for with an untrained pilot not even kicking ass in the heart of the Pentagon, anyway? You guys are a laff a minute thinking some sort of US government "SECRET" operation on the Pentagon. Are you out of your collective minds?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Is the USG part of the MIC? Who owns the Federal Reserve banks? Hint, it's not the US government. Who RUNS the US government? It's certainly not "We the People", it's whoever controls the money supply and who can exert influence at the highest levels of government.
ROTFL
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Was the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty an open and public operation?
Are you that stupid and ignorant that you don't know aircraft can be controlled remotely?
Why are you going off topic from FLT77 on your own thread?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Go ask the FBI why they confiscated all video tapes from the traffic cameras near the Pentagon which would show the actual attack as it took place. Go ask your government sources why they only released a crappy 2 frame shot of the Pentagon attack from a surveillance camera, which YOU yourself have linked to in the way of that "simulation" you presented. You are projecting upon others the very thing you are guilty of yourself.
You flockwits are about as far as being from "Sir Isaac Newton" as you can get except for 1 factor - something did bounce off your noggins. I cannot think of a greater exercise in Western civ denying reality and wasting time this side of the Middle Age superstitions. On 911 we have (1) A man who played an instrumental role in the guerilla fighting that eventually forced the communists to leave Afghanistan, saying he will do the same thing to the US as to the Russians, following through on his threats by destroying 2 US embassies and several US military facilities over the next decade. But somehow not playing any role in the 911 attacks, because he stayed in some bomb-resistance mountain bases after escaping several volleys of cruise missiles sent to his regular living place and because briefly he denied being behind them (2) Four aircraft reporting hijackings, with 3 of them observed crashing into buildings by hundreds to thousands of observers, (3) Major damage to other buildings from the crashes that happened in New York City, (4) The release of these 3 crashes of gigajoules of energy which somehow had no effect on the buildings, which are alleged to have been brought down by alternative totally unconnected and difficult to fully explain in detail methods, (5) Firemen saying they will be "pulling" away from one crash damaged building because "the structural stability is not there," (6) Saying that dozens of phone calls recorded and recollected by people during the jijackings didn't ever happen, and (7) Saying the people who got the remains from forensic DNA analysis didn't actually receive the bodies or body parts of people dying according to the detailed autopsy reports. What a pantload to expect people other than dingbat Six Percenters to believe! Speaking of Pantloads how's the weather in Virginia today? 1. The fact that someone is hostile does not bequeath upon them magic powers to cause cover exercises to occur, the FBI to secure and sequester all of the 32 or so videotapes from sites around the Pentagon the afternoon of the attack (which 9 years later are still under lock and key), nor does it explain how that same CIA Contract Agent was able to shut down NORAD. Blowing Osama Ben Forgotten up into some mythical bogeyman does not vitiate obvious facts such as that the Air Traffic Controllers who watched this all unfold on their scopes are still under a gag order 9 years later. 2. None of the Aircraft reported a hijacking and to assert otherwise is simply a lie. None of the pilots or co-pilots (8 people on 4 aircraft) reported being hijacked or, very telling, sent the four digit hijack code which takes about 2 seconds to tap out. Once it is possible, twice is stretching it, but 4 out 4? I don't think so. These were highly trained ex-military pilots who were used to operating under deadly stress. That not 1 of them sent the code is preposterous UNLESS the avionics had been tampered with. That a madman in a cave in the vastness of far Tora Bora could do that on 4 aircraft would require a very sophisticated technical team and the logistics of which would make "Mission Impossible" look like a Cake Walk. 3. No one has maintained that the aircraft did not do damage to the buildings in New York. That is a Strawman Argument. However, there is no evidence which supports the stupid theory that 2 airplanes can make 3 buildings collapse in a manner identical to a controlled demolition. I know several implausible scenarios have been tried to force the evidence into that box, but for some strange reason it keeps squeezing out. Imagine that. 4. First a "Joule" is an extremely small amount of energy so even a gigajoule or two, while large, is only a fraction of the energy released in a nuclear explosion. For comparison a standard stick of dynamite releases 2.1 Megajoules of energy (7.5 MJ/Kg). It sounds bigger than it is because most people are not familiar with the tiny amount of energy represented by 1 Joule. And the size of the energy is not as important as how the energy is directed and into what. Here is where scale becomes important. A gigajoule of energy released into an ant hill is going to obliterate it out of existence, that same amount of energy released into the side of an open pit mine is going to create a lot of work for the men hauling the ore out, but a gigajoule released into an open structure with plenty of avenues for the compression wave to escape is not as significant. Its still not good, but not enough to knock down a structure as beefy as the the twin towers. In the case of the towers they were designed to withstand that level of impact and remain standing. However, that is almost beside the point as the series of unlikely events, and the strained reasoning of the "Official Conspiracy Theory™" do not account for the observed phenomena. If one takes the time to study a few catastrophic collapses of built structures then the one thing that stands out is that there is always one point where the failure of the structure begins i.e., a weak point that gives way first. So, in a normal failure the structure collapses in the direction of the point of failure. That is not what is observed at WTC 1,2, and 7. No, instead they collapse simultaneously in 360 degrees, SYMMETRICALLY, and subside into their own footprint at a rate of collapse approaching free fall - also not a typical phenomena associated with a normal catastrophic engineering failure. What is the closest simile to the observed phenomena is a controlled demolition wherein the underlying structure is removed by demolition charges thus allowing gravity to uniformly collapse the structure in a controlled linear collapse into its own footprint. 5. Structural instability does not equal a symmetrical, initiated at the same instant at all 4 corners, 360 degree collapse of a structure into its own footprint. Your comment is intentionally misleading so as to imply that reports of localized instability equals a collapse of the structure in the manner observed. 6. The only evidence of the alleged phone calls is insubstantial. The known operating charateristics of analog cellphones makes it very tenuous to assert that even one call was made. As you well know the famous "Barbara Olson" "calls" did not occur. You are simply blustering and trying to divert in a maze of confusion. 7. I have never argued that. I have not commented on it at all as a matter of fact. It is quite a "Pantload" to presume that people will stop observing, thinking, and drawing logical conclusions from the observed evidence just because you write a spittle flecked post and hold your breath until you turn blue. Childish temper tantrums are not evidence. Public Meltdowns and the use of shaky evidence and outright lies is not a valid argument. I would say you are so full of shit that your eyes are brown but that would be rude. Instead I'll just shake my head and laugh at your infantile antics.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
You are saying that it is impossible for the government to attack a US military asset, where they did exactly that in the case of the USS Liberty.
NO....... but why would you think that the US government (or any government in the US) would consider such an act perpetrated against the American People ... or (in the case of the Pentagon) the US government itself?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestTo: FormerLurker More people believe in Elvis sightings and UFO abductions than believe in "The 911 attacks were an inside job." Deal with it.
#164. To: FormerLurker (#104)
The case here is that the FDR shows the door being closed for the entire flight, and for the 11 prior flights, although that isn't that unusual, in fact, it's pretty common.
#165. To: buckeroo, turtle, GreyLMist (#163)
(Edited)
More people believe in Elvis sightings and UFO abductions than believe in "The 911 attacks were an inside job." Deal with it.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#166. To: AGAviator (#165)
All "they" would need to do to produce better fake reports instead of the so-called fakes they currently show is use that same obviously workable technology with highly photographed real imagery, instead of their comuter renderings based on the real imagery to begin with. Why the double work to get an inferior product?
#167. To: RickyJ, AGAviator, FormerLurker (#140)
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that.
#168. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#143)
Oh, and HOW could you FORGET that it was FLIGHT 77 which is alleged to have struck the Pentagon, not FLIGHT 11?
#169. To: buckeroo (#166)
#170. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#139)
The more you spam this thread, the more you prove yourself to be here to disrupt this forum.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#171. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#169)
#172. To: Original_Intent aka Original_Indent, buckeroo, turtle (#167)
(Edited)
(1) A man who played an instrumental role in the guerilla fighting that eventually forced the communists to leave Afghanistan, saying he will do the same thing to the US as to the Russians, following through on his threats by destroying 2 US embassies and several US military facilities over the next decade. But somehow not playing any role in the 911 attacks, because he stayed in some bomb-resistant mountain bases after escaping several volleys of cruise missiles sent to his regular living places, and because briefly he denied being behind the attacks
What a pantload to think that hijacked planes had no consequenes and expect people other than Six Percenters to believe!
(2) Four aircraft reporting hijackings, with 3 of them observed crashing into buildings by hundreds to thousands of observers, not playing any roles in building collapses happening within a few hours, which collapses were instead done by alternative methods,
(3) Major damage to other buildings from the crash debis that happened in New York City,
(4) The release of these 3 crashes of gigajoules of energy which somehow had no effect on the buildings, which are alleged to have been brought down by alternative totally unconnected and difficult to fully explain in detail methods,
(5) Firemen saying they will be "pulling" away from one crash damaged building because "the structural stability is not there,"
(6) Saying that dozens of phone calls recorded and recollected by people during the hijackings didn't ever happen, and
(7) Saying the people who got the remains from forensic DNA analysis didn't actually receive the bodies or body parts of people dying according to the detailed autopsy reports.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#173. To: wudidiz, HOUNDDAWG, FormerLurker, abraxas, HAPPY2BME-4UM, Twenty Twelve, Horse, Lod, christine, AGAviator (#152)
(FormerLurker) That you CAN'T realistically refute the premise of this article is obvious
#174. To: AGAviator (#172)
What a pantload to expect people other than dingbat Six Percenters to believe!
#175. To: RickyJ (#128)
huh? anyone here capable of translating this to English?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#176. To: FormerLurker (#123)
If you have points to make or facts to talk about, do it, but stop SPAMMING this thread.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#177. To: Turtle (#174)
And I'm crazy to doubt 2000 people got together in an auditorium and came up without dissent the most complex conspiracy in the history of the world, pulled it off perfectly
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#178. To: Turtle, buckeroo (#174)
Such loyalty from the worst traitors in the history of the world!
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#179. To: Turtle (#174)
And I'm crazy to doubt 2000 people got together in an auditorium and came up without dissent the most complex conspiracy in the history of the world, pulled it off perfectly, then all of them disppeared and have never said one word about it. Such loyalty from the worst traitors in the history of the world!
#180. To: buckeroo (#166)
I saw a few discussions about how GREAT the lawn looked after AMA Flight 77 "landed" on 9/11/2001 on this thread. There is a reason I don't comment..... I am laffing so hard, I can't type.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#181. To: FormerLurker (#177)
However, you would ALSO be crazy if you thought 19 arabs with box cutters, who couldn't even fly a single engine aircraft, commandeered 4 large heavy commercial airliners and not only navigated them but flew them with skill and precision into stationary targets on the ground, while the world's largest military was left wondering what to do about it and failing to do anything to stop them.
#182. To: FormerLurker (#180)
#183. To: AGAviator (#178)
And who can't even manage the war they wanted so badly.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#184. To: buckeroo (#182)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#185. To: FormerLurker (#184)
So what? The lawn was not even kissed by the engines in that simulation, nor was it in real life.
#186. To: buckeroo (#166)
I also have seen some discussion about "the EBIL government" performing this deed. I wonder how the US government could get anyone to fly a jet passenger aircraft into the ground with innocent passengers on-board .... could "they" have offered a maybe a beer and a hotdawg on a stick to the perpetrators if they survived?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#187. To: buckeroo (#185)
ROTFL ......
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#188. To: FormerLurker (#186)
There ARE people who think nothing of killing people, no matter HOW many.
#189. To: buckeroo (#166)
(Edited)
I saw a few discussions about how GREAT the lawn looked after AMA Flight 77 "landed" on 9/11/2001 on this thread. There is a reason I don't comment..... I am laffing so hard, I can't type.
By Joe Vialls, October 2001
#190. To: buckeroo (#185)
ROTFL ......
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#191. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#183)
The MIC has gotten everything it wanted in spades, and is still reaping OUTRAGEOUS profit from the deal. You're a fool if you believe otherwise.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#192. To: buckeroo (#188)
But, you will never find a sane man/woman willing to DIE for a country.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#193. To: FormerLurker (#187)
#194. To: AGAviator (#191)
Show me the money trail.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#195. To: FormerLurker (#192)
Nobody perpetrating the attacks had to die, as aircraft are easily controlled electronically using remote control these days.
#196. To: buckeroo (#193)
You guys are a laff a minute thinking some sort of US government "SECRET" operation on the Pentagon. Are you out of your collective minds?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#197. To: buckeroo (#195)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#198. To: FormerLurker (#196)
Was the attempted sinking of the USS Liberty an open and public operation?
#199. To: AGAviator (#165)
Why videos with only 1-2 frames with plane shots instead of a faster speed film with better locations and better zoom-in zoom outs?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#200. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker, wudidiz, critter, HOUNDDAWG, farmfriend, christine, all (#172)
Seriously, still trying to debunk the controlled demolition of the towers? That is akin to debunking the laws of physics, good luck with that. Oh, he'd do that too if his boss told him to. Suddenly Sir Isaac Newton would become a lazy crank.
#201. To: buckeroo (#198)
Why are you going off topic from FLT77 on your own thread?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#202. To: FormerLurker (#197)
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