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Title: Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack”
Source:
Rock Creek Free Press
URL Source: http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/285492999/flt77fdr
Published: Dec 15, 2009
Author: Sheila Casey
Post Date: 2010-07-14 02:07:35 by FormerLurker
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Keywords: Flight 77, 9/11, Black Box
Views: 29382
Comments: 913
Flight 77 Cockpit Door Never Opened During 9/11 “Hijack"
By Sheila Casey / Rock Creek Free Press
Pilots for 9/11 Truth has reported that the data stream from the flight data recorder (FDR) for American Airlines flight 77, which allegedly struck the Pentagon on 9/11, shows that the cockpit door never opened during the entire 90 minute flight. The data was provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), which has refused to comment.
The FDR is one of two “black boxes” in every commercial airliner, which are used after accidents to help determine the cause of a crash. One black box records flight data, the other records voice data (everything said in the cockpit during the flight). With those two sets of data, NTSB investigators can usually piece together the events that led to a crash. The status of the door to the cockpit is checked every four seconds throughout a flight and relayed as a simple 0 or 1, where 0=closed and 1=open, with approximately 1,300 door status checks performed during AA77’s 90 minute flight. Every one of those door status checks shows as a 0, indicating that the door to the cockpit never opened during the entire flight.
Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working.
The official story about flight 77 is that five Muslim terrorists brandishing box cutters forced their way into the cockpit and herded two pilots, four flight attendants and all the passengers to the back of the plane. This story came into being via Ted Olson, US Solicitor General, who told CNN — that he received two phone calls from his wife Barbara Olson, a passenger on the doomed flight. Ted Olson’s story changed several times. Sometimes he claimed that the calls from his wife were made from seat back phones, other times that she used her cell phone.
According to American Airlines customer service, the American Airlines maintenance manual for that aircraft, and American Airlines Captain Ralph Kolstad, seatback phones on 757s had been deactivated prior to 9/11/01. (They were later removed entirely, as they never worked well.)
Barbara Olson couldn’t have used a cell phone either: numerous 9/11 researchers, most notably David Ray Griffin, have pointed out that cell phones did not work on airplanes on 9/11. The speed and altitude of a commercial airliner both present overwhelming obstacles to a cell phone’s need to lock onto a cell tower and then hand off to another tower in a new location.
It was the FBI that revealed the evidence that decisively disproves Ted Olson’s story. In the Zacarias Moussaoui trial in 2006, the FBI presented a report on the cell phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. Their report on AA77 shows that there was only one phone call from Barbara Olson, but that it was an unconnected call lasting zero seconds. So Ted Olson either lied about receiving calls from his wife or was deceived into believing he received calls from her.
According to the UK Telegraph, Barbara Olson delayed her flight on 9/11 so that she could have breakfast with her husband on his birthday. That delay put her on the doomed flight. Ted Olson remarried in 2006 to tax attorney Lady Booth, whom he reportedly met the year after Barbara died.
There are numerous oddities and contradictions about AA77’s black boxes.
The government claims that the voice data recorder was damaged during the crash and that no usable data was retrieved from it. If true, this would be the first time in aviation history that a solid-state data recorder was destroyed during a crash.
While it was widely reported in the media that the FDR for AA77 was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.
Researcher Aidan Monagahan has established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from AA77. The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.
Structural engineer Allyn Kilsheimer claimed that he personally found AA77’s black box on 9/11. But in the Popular Mechanics book Debunking 9/11 Myths, Kilsheimer is quoted as saying, “I stood on a pile of debris that we later found contained the black box 70;”
Kilsheimer’s story changes again in August 2007 in a piece done by the History Channel, “The 9/11 Conspiracies,” where he claims “I tripped over something; it was the black box.”
In earlier work, Pilots for 9/11 Truth (P4T) has determined that the same data set provided by the NTSB shows the plane too high to hit the Pentagon, based on an altimeter that uses air pressure to calibrate altitude.
As reported in the April 2009 Rock Creek Free Press, Citizen Investigation Team, citizen journalists from southern California, has collected evidence from 14 eyewitnesses that shows that the plane seen that morning near the Pentagon did not hit the building, but flew over it at the moment explosives detonated in the Pentagon, leading observers to conclude that the plane had crashed into the Pentagon.
Questions about what happened at the Pentagon have intrigued 9/11 researchers for years, beginning with photos from the alleged crash scene which do not show the wreckage of a plane.
This new evidence, showing that the cockpit door never opened during flight, is another nail in the coffin of the official story about flight 77. Clearly, if the cockpit door never opened, then hijackers did not storm the cockpit and herd the pilots to the back of the plane. The data, which originated from the government, does not support the government’s story.
Why would the government release data which contradicts its own version of events? It is possible they were just sloppy, or that they never anticipated that anyone would parse the data as carefully as Pilots for 9/11 Truth have. They may have also felt secure, that regardless of what damning revelations were contained in the FDR data, no mainstream media outlet would give them ink or air time, keeping the official story intact for the vast majority of Americans who receive their news from mainstream sources.
Rob Balsamo, founder of Pilots for 9/11 Truth, stated: “We have not located any independently verified data which confirms the government’s story. The FBI and NTSB refuse to comment.” Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe who are investigating the government’s claims about the attacks of 9/11.
Sheila Casey is a DC based journalist. Her work has appeared in The Denver Post, Reuters, Chicago Sun-Times, Dissident Voice and Common Dreams.
Poster Comment:
Here's a link to the Pilots for 9/11 Truth articles on the matter. 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
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#359. To: FormerLurker (#333)
(Edited)
Show me your proof of your theory, with specific facts, documentation, and independently corroboratable evidence. Tearing alternative and more fact- based theories down with arm waving and selective quoting does not score any points on your behalf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't believe that anyone who is not capable of flying a little Cessna is capable of performing stunt moves with a big commercial airliner, stunt moves that would take an experienced pilot and most likely a fighter plane to perform.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You're working on an F minus. Where is the evidence of that happening? There is none. IF there was structural degradation due to heat, it would NOT have been uniform, and the top of the tower would have sagged to one side, causing huge lateral forces to snap any weakened sections, then broken off, sliding downwards on an angle out away from the structure. Your pal's pancake theory doesn't explain what happened to the steel core either, nor the outer steel columns. The entire steel core should have remained standing if some floors had pancaked, yet the steel core disintegrated into dust. Besides, the pancake theory only works if the floors remained somewhat intact. The structure turned to dust as it collapsed, so there WAS no pancaking involved.
Oh BS..... he had no such background to withstand the G forces other than shouting "ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!ALLAH! ALLAH!" all the way. He had no control of the plane .... I wager his co-terrorists shit their pants during that maneuver looking forward to their virgins in paradise. And the passengers? They either died of a heart attack and/or shit their britches before impact.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Haven't forgotten it, it simply represents the official explanation of what happened. Thing is, it's physically impossible for a 757 to behave like that at 530 mph due to ground effect.
You are having fun here aren't you buck. You just like to act ridiculous and side with shillsters in order to get people riled up. You are a laugh a minute.
Hanjour did not competently steer the craft is the point. He was in over his head. The outcome is proof because if Hanjour was competent he WOULD HAVE HIT THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE OR THE INNER SANCTUM OF THE PENTAGON... not perform some stunt maneuver on his way to Allah for you to talk about 9 years later.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Then refute the three physics points cited by Eager with specific references and calculations. QED.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not going to explain something with math to someone who can't understand basic concepts or how to do simple arithmetic.
There were heavy vertical steel columns, and a heavy vertical steel core, idiot. The structure needs to hold up AT LEAST it's own weight, where you and your pal are trying to say any sort of added vertical force is going to crush the building as if it were made of egg shells. It's sad that there are people stupid enough to believe that.
That's only IF Hanjour was actually flying that plane, which any rational person would see he COULD NOT and DID NOT. The aircraft claimed to be Flight 77 did what was intended for it to do by those who executed the attacks.
There is no such way as to chipping away at this conspiracy, is there? OK...... yet, just a moment ago you created a post suggesting @post#353.... What is the matter, now? Losing your own memory? I have heard there are types of mental dymensia, 1) loss of longterm memory and 2) loss of shortterm memory. Please don't be in either one of these categories ... I have known you you too long in time, my friend.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Are you quite sure it's an act?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Click on the link Former Lurker provided up thread just a bit: Hani Hanjour and Flight 77's Unexplained Expert Maneuvers Experienced air traffic controllers couldn't believe the maneuvers being performed and thought it was a military jet with an experienced pilot.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. OK ... fuck Hanjour.... let's pretend it was the TWOOFER_Faerie™ The flight plan wasn't executed with any precision.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
It takes a real retard to ask that question. The EARTH and the structure itself is where the INERTIA was, the TOP part of the tower had NOWHERE near that much weight as it was the top 30 floors or so of a 110 story structure, and the 500,000 tons was the weight of the ENTIRE FUCKING BUILDING.
I'm really starting to wonder.
You said that Hanjour didn't hit the Pentagon in one of your posts. I agree, he wasn't flying it, and more than likely it wasn't Flight 77 either. There's no way a 757 could actually fly like that at ground level at 530 mph, and that's the point I've been making all along.
I can explain his maneuvers that no one else can. Hanjour was shitting in his pants as he came up to his final approach and lost his confidence at the last minute and tried to land the fucking plane to save his life. He couldn't even do that.... but off to paradise he went. Meanwhile, here on the Internet some of you folks believe Hanjour (or whomever attempted to control that craft) was competent.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Well, not quite that chastened. LOL!
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Damn! Well then can you chasten me?
Name calling is juvenile.
Lets get this conspiracy thread topic out of the way ... shall we? Your thread title is about AMA Flight 77 on September 11, 2001 .... Is this the same flight? Or is this some sort of Easter bunny flight delivering chocolate Easter eggs to all the good littl' boys & girls on an early schedule?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Then refute the three physics points cited by Eager with specific references and calculations. (1) All building floors were 95% air, so downward would be the preferred direction of any floor collapses, (2) There is no 500,000 ton force sufficient to displace the center of gravity of a 500,000 ton structure over 100 feet off center to make the building fall outside of its footprint, and (3) Gien the building 500,000 tons of inertia, and the absence of quickly reacting and massive forces operating in anything besides the downward direction, explain how the building could possibly to anywhere but into its uncluttered footprint. QED. QED my little redskinned behind. In a true catastrophic failure it will occur at one point in the structure whether a corner or a center of a wall. It will not occur simultaneously in 360 degrees. Just as Eager's earlier whitewash for NOVA he includes a couple of hidden assumptions and/or outright misleading points. For example in the NOVA piece, long since shredded to the point Eager will not talk about it, he used animations showing the floor struts bare and underneath the floors when in reality they are imbedded in foamed concrete. Here as well we have sleight of hand. Since there will, in a normal catastrophic failure be a first failure point the collapse of the building will begin at that point. As the side crumbles the rest of the structure, still relatively intact, will act as a lever causing the collapsing section to cantilever down, thus altering the center of gravity of the section above, thus it will pivot down throwing the center of gravity further out thus causing the section to either slump or continue rotating outward causing the section to eventually break off and tumble. We can see that happening on one of the towers in the videos, but note that what happens is as it rotates out and is about to tumble over the entire support structure underneath collapses arresting the tumble (the lever is gone) and it then drops straight down on top of the lower structure collapsing underneath it. For Professor Eager's "explanation" to work the collapse of the building has to begin uniformly, symmetrically, in 360 degrees at the same moment in time. The only way that happens is if you remove the support structure all at once, and the only way that happens is with explosives. As listed on the Website of Archetects and Engineers for 911 Truth (who are every bit as qualified as the the lone government grant gobbling shill Eager): As seen in this revealing photo, the Twin Towers' destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives: 1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration And exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire, i.e. 1. Slow onset with large visible deformations "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Damn! Well then can you chasten me? "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It takes a real retard to ask that question. The EARTH and the structure itself is where the INERTIA was, the TOP part of the tower had NOWHERE near that much weight as it was the top 30 floors or so of a 110 story structure, and the 500,000 tons was the weight of the ENTIRE FUCKING BUILDING. Oh, he's not one to let reality stand in the way of defending the "Official Conspiracy Theory™".
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Oooo a new smilie too. cool!
Name calling is juvenile.
It was the same flight, but first off, the FDR data indicates no hijacking took place since the cockpit door never opened during flight. Secondly, it is debatable whether or not the data is even from Flight 77 to begin with, but that is what the government claims it is. Thing is, it's obvious your idea of what happened is TOTALLY off base, and is so twisted and laughable that it's hard to type a polite response. The aircraft that is claimed to be Flight 77 that showed up over Washington skies that morning executed manuevers that seasoned pilots would have had a difficult time of performing with a 757, and the final approach down to an altitude of 20 feet off the deck is pretty much physically impossible at 530 mph.
No buck. That is NOT what we have been trying (without any success it seems) to tell you. He was not competent. He could not fly a Cessna. Should we type slower, do you think that would help?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Oooooooooo! That has to have left a mark.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
WHOA there, pardner... Didn't you just question AMA Flight 77 as being unreal @post#376 of your own thread? Who cares. Shit happens and all things made by man fail... especially when you need those same devices at the moment of truth. I understand your point. The issue *IS* Hanjour was not an experienced pilot with any training or capability of and about flying a 757... you know this, EVERYONE knows this. The terrorist was just lucky to knock out the five street lamps (and a taxicab) beyond slamming into a sidewall of the Pentagon. Remember, some 60 people died aboard Flight 77 and as I remember 150 military staff died in the Pentagon. Don't you think that was enough damage for an excited, stupid terrorist for one day?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Well yeah, if he was sentient it would. But I am afraid he has been drinking the government KOOK AID too long and it has messed up his mind. They say that KOOK AID and Sterno don't mix too well.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Well yeah, if he was sentient it would. But I am afraid he has been drinking the government KOOK AID too long and it has messed up his mind. They say that KOOK AID and Sterno don't mix too well. Sort of a hoxic tighball eh?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Here is what Hanjour performed while panicking at the last moment ..... No talent was required on a nice day from Dulles International Airport to the Pentagon.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
MY pleasure.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And stop calling me Surely.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Yeah, something like that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. OK, Squirmy.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.) From the Ohio/Kentucky border, Hanjour then supposedly turned the plane around, set course for Washigton D.C. hundreds of miles away,* and successfully entered the most restricted airspace in the world without eliciting a single military intercept - despite the crash of two other known hijacked aircraft into the WTC, and a missing third, being covered on every radio and television station in the country. "In order to perform this bit of electronic navigation, he would have to be very familiar with (Instrument Flight Rules) procedures. None of these fellows (the alleged hijackers) even knew what a navigational chart looked like, or even how to plug frequencies into NAV/COM radios, much less input information into flight management computers (FMC) and engage LNAV (lateral navigation automated mode). If one is to believe the official story, all of this was supposedly accomplished by raw student pilots while flying blind at 500 MPH over unfamiliar (and practically invisible) terrain, using complex methodologies and employing sophisticated instruments." According to the official account, an unidentified aircraft that somebody randomly decided was 'Flight 77' (remember, the transponder needed to identify the aircraft had been turned off) then suddenly pops up over Washington DC out of nowhere and executes an incredibly precise diving turn at a rate of 360 degrees/minute while descending at 3,500 ft/min, at the end of which "Hanjour" allegedly levels out at ground level. The maneuver was in fact so precisely executed that the air traffic controllers at Dulles refused to believe the blip on their screen was a commercial airliner. Danielle O'Brian, one of the air traffic controllers at Dulles who reported seeing the aircraft at 9:25 said, 'The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.'" (ABC News, 10/24/2001, also archived at www.cooperativeresearch.org) The official story of Hanjour's flight path continues in an even more bizarre narrative. Having successfully entered D.C. airspace, with no idea how soon fighter aircraft would show up to shoot him down, he finds himself pointed in the ideal direction toward the East wing of the Pentagon, where all the top brass in the military are known to be stationed. But then he apparently changes his mind as to his heading, and pulls off that incredible, sweeping 270-degree descending turn at 400+mph to approach the Pentagon from the opposite direction. There, he inexplicably lines up the less valued West wing, which was miraculously scheduled to receive the finishing touches of extensive bomb-blast retrofitting the next day, September 12, leaving it conveniently empty of most of its military employees. "The section known as Wedge 1 (the West Wing) had been under renovation and was scheduled for final completion on Wednesday, September 12th, 2001." *And of course that didn't take any talent, knowledge of aircraft systems or flying skills. Cut out the bs, buck. You have to know better than this stupid $#it you're posting.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Can you do a favor for me? Please ensure that Hanjour in your post (above) was not alone..... he didn't do shit by himself (other crap on himself while attempting to back off from paradise)... There were four or five other terrorists aboard helping the little intellect onto the helm just to blow OTTO!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There actually was a little of that, but only up to the point where the building base lost its rigidity, to hold the upper section laterally at a substantially less than vertical angle. Pictures clearly the upper part of one building tilted towards the gap caused by the entry of the fuselage. However when gravity took over the rotation angle stopped and the whole top section started falling straightdown from where the connection bertween top and bottom broke apart. An additional problem comes from the building base containing enough structural rigidity to withstand the horizontal component of the upper section rotating against it at a less than 90 degree angle. The building base would have to supply an equal and opposite horizontal component to the rotating and falling vertical section's. Your problem comes from confusing a building which is 95% air with a solidly planted and cut tree which is 100% cellulose. A heavy but 95% air by volume item will tend to break apart when rotated onto its side. A solid 100% cellulose through and through will fall like solid trees fall. Buildings are not trees, and trees are not buildings, wanna be. Eager is educated enough to know that, you are not.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestStop projecting your faults.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#360. To: buckeroo (#355)
Of course, YOU believe Hanjour intentionally flew FLT77 into the side of the Pentagon, correct?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#361. To: AGAviator (#354)
And not once the upper floors started moving past the point where the "tube inside a tube" design was unable to support the mass and the momentum of the pancaking higher floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#362. To: FormerLurker (#356)
He flew it with military precision according to experienced air traffic controllers at Dulles International Airport.
#363. To: buckeroo (#358)
Have you already forgotten the clip I provided on this thread @post#171? I think so.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#364. To: buckeroo (#362)
Oh BS..... he had no such background to withstand the G forces other than shouting
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#365. To: James Deffenbach (#360)
I don't believe that anyone who is not capable of flying a little Cessna is capable of performing stunt moves with a big commercial airliner, stunt moves that would take an experienced pilot and most likely a fighter plane to perform.
#366. To: RickyJ, buckeroo (#350)
(Edited)
to. I don't need a so-called "expert" to tell me how physics work, I know it very well.
(1) All building floors were 95% air, so downward would be the preferred direction of any floor collapses,
(2) There is no 500,000 ton force sufficient to displace the center of gravity of a 500,000 ton structure over 100 feet off center to make the building fall outside of its footprint, and
(3) Gien the building 500,000 tons of inertia, and the absence of quickly reacting and massive forces operating in anything besides the downward direction, explain how the building could possibly to anywhere but into its uncluttered footprint.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#367. To: AGAviator (#359)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#368. To: AGAviator (#366)
All building floors were 95% air, so downward would be the preferred direction of any floor collapses,
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#369. To: buckeroo (#365)
The outcome is proof because if Hanjour was competent he WOULD HAVE HIT THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE OR THE INNER SANCTUM OF THE PENTAGON
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#370. To: FormerLurker (#363)
Haven't forgotten it[the clip @post#171, this thread], it simply represents the official explanation of what happened.
Are you saying that Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon?
#371. To: FormerLurker (#364)
You just like to act ridiculous
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#372. To: buckeroo (#365)
Hanjour did not competently steer the craft is the point.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#373. To: FormerLurker (#369)
That's only IF Hanjour was actually flying that plane
#374. To: AGAviator (#366)
Gien the building 500,000 tons of inertia, and the absence of quickly reacting and massive forces operating in anything besides the downward direction, explain how the building could possibly to anywhere but into its uncluttered footprint.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#375. To: James Deffenbach (#371)
Are you quite sure it's an act?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#376. To: buckeroo (#370)
OK...... yet, just a moment ago you created a post suggesting @post#353....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#377. To: James Deffenbach (#372)
Hani Hanjour and Flight 77's Unexplained Expert Maneuvers
#378. To: farmfriend (#347)
#379. To: Original_Intent (#378)
Well, not quite that chastened. LOL!
#380. To: FormerLurker (#376)
more than likely it wasn't Flight 77 either.
At 8:20 AM, Flight 77 took off from Dulles International Airport, 10 minutes after its scheduled departure time. At 8:46, Flight 77 veered severely off course. At 8:50, the last radio communication was made from the pilots and air traffic control. At 8:56, the jet's transponder was shut off. The pilots' last transmission was "ah direct FALMOUTH American seventy seven thanks." No radio communications from the flight indicated distress.
#381. To: AGAviator (#366)
to. I don't need a so-called "expert" to tell me how physics work, I know it very well.
2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction
4. Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes
5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally
6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
7. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
8. 1200-foot-dia. debris field: no "pancaked" floors found
9. Isolated explosive ejections 20 – 40 stories below demolition front
10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples
13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples
14. No precedent for steel-framed high-rise collapse due to fire
2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, intact, from the point of plane impact, to the side most damaged by the fires)
3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never “collapsed”
#382. To: farmfriend (#379)
Well, not quite that chastened. LOL!
#383. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator, all (#374)
Gien the building 500,000 tons of inertia, and the absence of quickly reacting and massive forces operating in anything besides the downward direction, explain how the building could possibly to anywhere but into its uncluttered footprint.
#384. To: Original_Intent (#382)
#385. To: buckeroo (#380)
Is this the same flight?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#386. To: buckeroo (#377)
He couldn't even do that.... but off to paradise he went. Meanwhile, here on the Internet some of you folks believe Hanjour (or whomever attempted to control that craft) was competent.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#387. To: James Deffenbach (#386)
Should we type slower, do you think that would help?
#388. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#385)
It was the same flight, but first off,
the FDR data indicates no hijacking took place since the cockpit door never opened during flight. Secondly, it is debatable whether or not the data is even from Flight 77 to begin with, but that is what the government claims it is.
Thing is, it's obvious your idea of what happened is TOTALLY off base, and is so twisted and laughable that it's hard to type a polite response. The aircraft that is claimed to be Flight 77 that showed up over Washington skies that morning executed manuevers that seasoned pilots would have had a difficult time of performing with a 757, and the final approach down to an altitude of 20 feet off the deck is pretty much physically impossible at 530 mph.
#389. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#387)
Oooooooooo! That has to have left a mark.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#390. To: James Deffenbach, buckeroo (#389)
Oooooooooo! That has to have left a mark.
#391. To: James Deffenbach (#386)
He was not competent. He could not fly a Cessna. Should we type slower, do you think that would help?
#392. To: farmfriend (#384)
Oooo a new smilie too. cool!
#393. To: buckeroo (#391)
#394. To: Original_Intent (#390)
Sort of a hoxic tighball eh?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#395. To: Original_Intent (#393)
And stop calling me Surely.
#396. To: buckeroo (#391)
No talent was required on a nice day from Dulles International Airport to the Pentagon.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#397. To: James Deffenbach (#396)
The official story unfolds something like this. The rather diminutive Hanjour, sometime after take-off, fought his way into the cockpit, and wrestled control of Flight 77 from a 6'4" former Marine combat fighter pilot named Charles Burlingame, a man family members and colleagues say would never have given up his aircraft or the safety of his passengers. After dispatching with the co-pilot as well, Hanjour settled in and turned his attention to the bewildering array of gadgets and devices of a Boeing 757 instrument panel - a panel he was wholly unfamiliar with - in an airplane traveling 500 mph, 7 miles in the air, under the stress of a recently executed hijacking plot. Then, without the help of any ground control or air-traffic controllers providing him information and/or settings, this pilot who could not control a tiny Cessna 3 weeks earlier "would have to very quickly interpret his heading, ground track, altitude, and airspeed information on the displays before he could even figure out where in the world he was, much less where the Pentagon was located in relation to his position." (From the essay 'The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training', by Nila Sagadevan, an aeronautical engineer and pilot.)
#398. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#361)
(Edited)
If there was structural degradation due to heat, it would NOT have been uniform, and the top of the tower would have sagged to one side, causing huge lateral forces to snap any weakened sections, then broken off, sliding downwards on an angle out away from the structure.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
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