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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 25591
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

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#80. To: buckeroo (#77)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-17   23:41:11 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: buckeroo (#77)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-17   23:42:29 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Eric Stratton (#79)

I see where you are going. And WTC7 went fast. But that doesn't mean controlled demolition (CD) was used by anyone.

So explain your position that CD was used.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   23:44:38 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: buckeroo (#82)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-17   23:49:17 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: buckeroo (#47)

bucky read this out loud for all to hear.
At that point he made some phone calls, and an un-named individual told them to “leave, and leave right away”. Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing. This is an important detail, as many debunkers have used Mr. Jennings statements out of context to claim the damage came to WTC 7 from the towers collapsing, not the case according, to Mr. Jennings.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-17   23:49:31 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: buckeroo (#82)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-17   23:49:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: buckeroo (#67)

But I don't believe for a second that a government entity in the USA would knowingly perpetrate an act against the people.

Operation Northwoods?

Gulf of Tonkin?

Sinking of the USS Maine?

Agent Orange?

Depleted Uranium?

The US government didn't kill enough of her own people through duplicity in all or any of the aforementioned to at least warrant some questioning and critical thinking into believing ANY government statement?

If the US had nothing to hide, it wouldn't have strong armed any and all investigation into 911--beginning with failure to properly fund one and going on to outright failure to comply with any and all information requests necessary to even look into this matter of killing 3000 citizens.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-17   23:57:05 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Eric Stratton (#83)

Questions for you:

1) Was WTC7 structurally damaged as a result of the twin towers collapse? 2) Were fires within the WTC7 building raving all day as a result of the twin towers collapse?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   23:58:03 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: IRTorqued (#84)

Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing.

Got link?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   23:59:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: buckeroo (#60)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?

You cited an entire document as a reference. That is not a refutation. It is an evasion. Cite where in the report your refutation comes from - page and paragraph(s).

My reading habits are not the question. You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   0:01:45 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Eric Stratton (#76)

now correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the upper building mass sitting on top of the lower building mass from the day the building was completed and resisted falling all those years up to 9-11-01?


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:06:43 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Original_Intent (#89)

Two ways, 1) fire damage throughout the day and 2) structural damage.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:06:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Original_Intent (#89)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:08:49 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: buckeroo (#87)

1) Was WTC7 structurally damaged as a result of the twin towers collapse? 2) Were fires within the WTC7 building raving all day as a result of the twin towers collapse?

Sheesh, Buck. Building Seven was the LEAST damaged of the surrounding buldings. Buildings 3,4,5, and 6 were in far worse shape and NONE FELL DOWN until the planned demolition day for each one.

No, the fires WERE NOT RAGING ALL DAY. The first tower fell into it's own footprint after burning less than two hours........the other one, the one hit first, burned for four hours prior to collapse. That's not even a quarter of a day. Plus, the fires raged only for moments as the JET FUEL BURNED UP IN AN OXYGEN RICH ENVIRONMENT. It wasn't a forge.......it was open air.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   0:09:22 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: buckeroo (#88)

scroll up to Farmfriend's post number 45 she posted it to you. dang! you members of the liar movement want everything handed to you just like the official fairy tale talking points the government provides you with.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:10:50 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: abraxas (#93)

Building Seven was the LEAST damaged of the surrounding buldings.

When did WTC7 fall? Hours after the twin towers collapsed. Through that entire period of time, fires were observed increasing on many of the floors. Meanwhile there was no method to contain or control those same fires as the fire sprinkler system was non-performing.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:22:52 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: abraxas (#93)

another item of note is that the investigators looking into the collapse of building seven were denied access to the pile of rubble that once was building seven and were instead taken to building six and told to use it as reference to building sevens collapse. this could be why the so called 9-11 commission completely ignored the collapse of building seven in their report, maybe they weren't willing to stick their collective necks out that far as to report on an investigation that never took place.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:22:57 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: IRTorqued (#94)

scroll up to Farmfriend's post number 45 she posted it to you.

Her post is confusing because the activities described was AFTER the first tower collapsed. If so, there would be pandemonium everywhere.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:24:46 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: buckeroo (#87)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-18   0:25:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: IRTorqued (#90)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-18   0:25:56 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: buckeroo (#97)

bahala na mas tangah.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:26:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Eric Stratton (#98)

Thank you BUT I am hoping to see some data beyond any beliefs. Is there any HARD evidence that WTC7 (or for that matter the twins) that clearly identifies CD?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:27:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: buckeroo (#101)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-18   0:28:44 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: buckeroo, All (#101)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-18   0:28:55 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: IRTorqued (#100)

Barry Jennings, a key 9/11 eyewitness who was an emergency coordinator for the New York Housing Authority, passed away last August 2008 at age 53 from undisclosed circumstances. Mr. Jennings was an eyewitness to the devastation of the World Trade center towers on September 11th 2001.

On the morning of 911 Barry Jennings with Michael Hess, (one of Rudy Giuliani’s highest ranking appointed officials, New York city’s corporation counsel), entered the famed Building 7.

It was just after the first attack on the North tower, but before the second plane hit the South Tower, when Barry Jennings escorted Michael Hess to the World Trade Center Tower 7.

I highlighted her point.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:30:06 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: Eric Stratton (#102)

So refute the official reports and show that CD was used. If you can't, then fine ... enjoy your belief system.....

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:31:18 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: buckeroo (#95)

Fires alone have NEVER brought a 47 story building down Buck. NEVER.

One in China burned for 47 hours and still didn't fall.

There was no jet fuel in that building. No plane hit that building. The surrounding buildings had MORE FIRE and MORE DAMAGE, yet didn't fall. But you know what those other buildings DIDN'T HAVE? They didn't have THOUSANDS OF SEC files against corporations, didn't have CIA files, didn't have FBI files. What a winfall that building seven fell into it's own foot print and not those other buildings that didn't contain such IMPORTANT and COSTLY case files but had FAR MORE DAMAGE.

Do explain why those fire sprinklers conveniently didn't work in the building that was the COMMAND CENTER for attacks, wherein Guiliani was supposed to be barking orders, but mysteriously didn't set foot in seven all day.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   0:31:40 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Eric Stratton, James Deffenbach (#99)

it would seem James explanation must be the case, it was that danged Magickal Jet Fuel™, that wreaked havoc that fateful day.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:32:56 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: buckeroo (#104)

wow and you learned how to use the blink tag too, that must be why they made you a ranking member of the liar movement you are a down right genieass.


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:36:32 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: buckeroo, All (#105)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-07-18   0:37:05 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: abraxas (#106)

ah but did they have a BBC reporter on hand? and if not who would have reported the collapse of that building in China some twenty minutes before the event?


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:39:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: Eric Stratton (#109)

If controlled demolition charges were used, where are the eye witnesses, the HARD evidence and how could such an event occur with shattering the glass from floor to floor to floor before each floor fell.

And if CD happened, where was the acoustic energy bouncing around or echoing all over NYC streets?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:41:02 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: IRTorqued (#110)

ah but did they have a BBC reporter on hand?

That BBC is so special......they must have prophets pretending to be news casters. Funny, but all the other sky scrapers that have had fires buring for MUCH longer than WTC7 didn't collapse at all, so the BBC prophets didn't give a heads up on pending buildings falling. lol

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   0:44:42 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: abraxas (#112)

funny thing is the BBC seems to have lost that reporter bimbo when questions started to flood in WRT her prophetess abilities. and what ever happened in the case of the titanium cored 400 ounce gold bars China got from the U.S. via London?


computer counted ballots are ballots that have been counted in secret, and with all probability not the way one voted.

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   0:51:54 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: IRTorqued (#113)

and what ever happened in the case of the titanium cored 400 ounce gold bars China got from the U.S. via London?

I think we might know the answers to these relevant questions if we actually had a frickin' media in the US......but instead we have corporate toadies. Nothing to see here Looky Lous....move along now.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   1:00:06 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: abraxas, IRTorqued (#114)

It was Tungsten not Titanium. Titanium is actually worth something. Tungsten is relatively cheap, but has about the same weight as gold.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   1:04:00 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle, ccritter (#63)

Do you mean such as blowing all the windows out on the sub floors of the WTC buildings?

Show me some blast clouds sending things upwards, not just sideways and downward, at hundreds of MPH initial velocities, not just at speeds not even equalling sideways and downward speeds from gravity.

Then show me those blast clouds starting out big, and themselves expanding in all directions at hundreds of MPH, not clouds barely getting big as fast as dust- driven clouds expand.

Those scenarios would be explosions. Events falling short of these factors are not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   1:09:39 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: AGAviator (#116)

Did you watch that video? The explosions were in the SUB FLOORS.

Why don't you watch it and explain to me how the eye witnesses are wrong and you are right.

They even talk about those dastardly blast clouds........burning their flesh and blowing them many feet away from where they were prior to the f'n explosions.

Shit, if you can't even watch the f'n video where the eye witnesses will tell you exactly what you are asking of me, then you are hopeless and you really don't want any answers to the questions you pose.

The witnesses clearly articulate AN EXPLOSION.......watch for yourself or shut your pie hole.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   1:14:15 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: buckeroo (#92)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

I do believe you are running a circuit of what Gerard Holmgren calls "The Fruit Loop".

So, you agreed that no plane hit WTC 7.

Then you cited unspecified damage from the collapse of the other 2 towers.

When asked to cite why you believe that, not including the discredited Pop Mechanics Disinfo piece you replied with a vague reference to the NIST Report (which itself has been shredded).

When asked to cite what and where specifically in the report you gave me the above. More evasion.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   1:16:36 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#117)

watch for yourself or shut your pie hole.

Objection your honor! There is no evidence that the accused puts pie in it. (I do so love double entendres.) ;-)

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   1:18:53 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: abraxas, *9-11* (#0)

.


"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET

wudidiz  posted on  2010-07-18   1:35:37 ET  [Locked]   Trace   Private Reply  



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