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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 23212
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#1108. To: wudidiz, FormerLurker (#1093)
He more than likely did his Dr. Jones show in order to push that video off the current view, so that people couldn't see how ridiculous his video was, and the claims he made stating how accurate it was and how we're all stupid. I don't understand why someone would want to be a part of the liar movement. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Either that, money i.e. paid, or psychoses. Take your pick.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
I'm going to be generous, AGA, and give you one more chance to stop peddling that baseless nonsense bolded above which I cautioned you earlier about here: Post #982 Cease and desist pretending that there isn't more than enough in evidence there and in the NIST report to debunk that farcical "talking point" of the guv issued fable, else you will be deemed exposed and PWND as a Willful Liar. As for Loizeaux, he states himself that 9/11 ruined him on account of everybody got too scared of loud noises after that, so that should be a clue to you that he isn't playing with a full deck, as they say. Obviously, the real reason his business disipated afterwards was because his prospective customers musta lurnt there's no use for his expensive "artform" anymore. All that's necessary is to punch a hole -- or a few holes -- in a building, sprinkle it with some trademark Magical Jet Fuel, light up a match, and wait a bit for it to burn down into its own footprint, yes?
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Maybe they could find some honest work. What you reckon?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I guess it proves that saying about how no one is completely worthless, that even the worst among us can be pointed to as bad examples if nothing else.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. In your reply to blowviator, you said (in part): "...A STAGED TERRORIST ACT which is being sold as THERE ARE NO EXPLOSIVES in the building can NOT behave the same as an obvious controlled demolition, since would know that's exactly what it was..." What I want to know is where do you find such people (dumber than blowviator) outside mental institutions?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. No firefighters were engaged in fighting the fires at the time Silverstein made his comment, a fact which has been posted before. But no matter what, the idiots in the liar movement keep on "catapulting the propaganda" making outlandish claims and insulting the intelligence of anyone who has kept up at all.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. FormerLurker: Neither of which he was actually qualified for, according to anyone who tested his "abilities". BTW, his "commercial license" allowed him to fly for hire, but not anything in the way of jet aircraft, just a standard propeller driven plane. Wait a minute. You have repeatedly danced around Hanjour's "lack of certifications" for piles of posts on this thread and at least one other about your silly-wet dream of a cabin door. Now, that I provided hard factual evidence of those same certifications, you are saying he wasn't really qualified. What the fuck are you doing? The guy was trained to fly ... and knew instrumentation required to steer the craft where he wanted. As AG as repeatedly told you this does not mean he was the caricature of your expert flying class called "top gun." You are blowing shit out of your keyboard. FL: you are a wiggling out of your own claims backed into a corner with no leg to stand upon.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
FormerLurker: Neither of which he was actually qualified for, according to anyone who tested his "abilities". BTW, his "commercial license" allowed him to fly for hire, but not anything in the way of jet aircraft, just a standard propeller driven plane. Wait a minute. You have repeatedly danced around Hanjour's "lack of certifications" for piles of posts on this thread and at least one other about your silly-wet dream of a cabin door. Now, that I provided hard factual evidence of those same certifications, you are saying he wasn't really qualified. What the fuck are you doing? The guy was trained to fly ... and knew instrumentation required to steer the craft where he wanted. As AG as repeatedly told you this does not mean he was the caricature of your expert flying class called "top gun." You are blowing shit out of your keyboard. Still catapulting the lies I see. Hanjour had the license equivalent of a "Learner's Permit" for commercial aircraft to train on the class of aircraft he allegedly sought to pilot. However, he never completed his training, was NOT rated to fly an airliner, he cut class, was rated by ALL of his instructors as a terrible student and even worse pilot. He flew a jet aircraft - the largest thing he ever flew was a twin engine propeller driven Piper Apache (Just like "Penny" flew, much more competently, in the 50's kids TV program "Sky King". For bonus points what was the name of her plane?) four seater. Attempting to assert that Hanjour was a qualified pilot and capable enough to perform the observed maneuvers is simply a lie and a distortion of the clear facts - Hanjour was incompetent as a pilot. It cannot be characterized any other way. To assert otherwise is simply disinformation. Why do you find it necessary to use disinformation tactics?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
If he couldn't fly a Cessna, nor speak English, it's obvious he SHOULDN'T have been issued any sort of pilot's license, private OR commercial. I just wanted to see if there WERE any copies of said license or certificate online, since it would provide info as to who the idiot was who signed off on it. It was either part of building the "legend" around Mr. Hanjour(Hanjoor), or outright negligence on the part of the FAA examiner. Hopefully those with the power to investigate will dig into it more. I'm not holding my breath though.
If even THAT is to be believed. BTW, I thought the claim was an Apache twin- engine?
I might have misremembered - it might have been a Piper Apache. I'll check.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
It's what he does here, and doing it just as much as any other shill that's ever tried to kill discussion about things the masters wish to keep hidden.
I stand corrected - it was a Piper Apache. "One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Hanjour had the license equivalent of a "Learner's Permit" for commercial aircraft to train on the class of aircraft he allegedly sought to pilot. However, he never completed his training, was NOT rated to fly an airliner, he cut class, was rated by ALL of his instructors as a terrible student and even worse pilot. He NEVER flew a jet aircraft - the largest thing he ever flew was a twin engine propeller driven Beechraft four seater. Attempting to assert that Hanjour was a qualified pilot and capable enough to perform the observed maneuvers is simply a lie and a distortion of the clear facts - Hanjour was incompetent as a pilot. It cannot be characterized any other way. To assert otherwise is simply disinformation. Why do you find it necessary to use disinformation tactics? Hey O_I ... get it through that thick skull of yours that this thread is about the demolition theory of the WTC. When FL repeatedly spun Hanjour's background.... look it up your self BSer .... I jumped in and posted the documentation about those certifications AND his records of flight instruction to INCLUDE his instructor. The issues about Hanjour's background on this thread are silly. BUT, he was able to use the electronic systems of a plane. And Hanjouir did a poor job of it. Your denial ... is proof that you have nothing in that thick, mass called a cranium..... it is a vacuum.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Good question, although the answer is right in front of us. I've heard that AGAviator and buckeye are twins. Here's their photo (I'm guessing the one on the right is buck) .. Sorry bucky but Bzzzzzzzt! Wrong again - the assertions made, when and where, are not relevant to exposing your misrepresentations. Well, I don't have any more time to play with you now. Why don't you play with yourself?
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
Posting PC crap again? The original documentation is right here on this thread... instead of "misremembering" you could (at least) look it up.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And according to his instructors, he was a terrible student and even worse pilot. One said, "he couldn't fly at all". One school called the FAA to verify that he actually possessed a license, thinking that what he presented was a fake, since he lacked any of the skills required of a person holding that sort of license.
You are insane.... FL has repeatedly misrepresented Hanjour has his "Holy Grail." What a silly, nitwit you are in publick.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Unlike you, OI admits when he made an error, one which was largely insignificant compared to your whoppers, which you've NEVER retracted.
So what? You are the guy that kept driving this thread to Hanjour's background... I have proved you don't know anything but how to spin even your coverups about your own posts here on this thread.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
What have I misrepresented there whackjob? I ASKED for a copy of his license, and you posted it, so WHAT? The evidence and documentation indicates he was NOT qualified to hold that license.
That blowfish? ROTFL.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh no, honest work is for honest people. I reckon used car salesman, pyramid marketing, selling ponzi schemes, rolling winos or pushing big pharma wares.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So what? So what if he couldn't fly, and should never have held the license he is said to possess? Besides demonstrating he COULD NOT have flown Flight 77 AT ALL, never mind flying it like a fighter jet, it raises questions as to WHY he was issued that license to begin with. As pointed out, the commericial license is basically a learner's permit for more advanced flight training, which he failed to complete, skipping class and doing poorly while present. However, a certain level of skill and ability is expected of one holding such a license, and Hanjour did NOT possess those skills or abilities. The person who signed off on his FAA exam should be prosecuted for fraud, and/or fired for blatent incompetence and negligence, for starters. More than likely it was not just an oversight, however, and was knowingly done by operatives in order to create a "legend" (intelligence word for a false background) for Hanjour, building him up to be this highly qualified (or at least SOMEWHAT qualified) individual who could believably have pulled off piloting a 757 from Ohio to Washington, and performing the manuevers that the aircraft was witnessed to have performed.
Not according to his instructors. He couldn't navigate, and couldn't do much more than fly a single-engine aircraft straight while already up in the air. I've done that myself when I was 9 years old or so. From Al Qaeda’s Top Gun He went through flight training... he received certification. His later antics on 9/11 PROVE he was far from an expert. Why are you continuing to dismiss important details.... Hanjour flew AAFLT77 and crash landed the plane into the Pentagon) ... yes, your pal, Stutts doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall just like yourself.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You can dish it out but can't take it. No surprise from a loser. That's how you all operate. He can't keep track of the WTC demolition theory ... so he even brings up Hanjour.... making that an issue for a hundred posts (compounded by his circle- jerk friends into about 200 posts) ... and when confronted with facts.... all of a sudden, he nacksteps to another level of discussion ... such as "well, his trainers said dis or dat" ... This guy FL is a squirmer of continuous BS ....
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Excellent track records of the significant points, AG .... my GOD ... then there are the spin-offs... "I didn't tay dat" ... and when confronted with the actual post of their BS .... "U don't no how 2 red." The shit gets thick on a thread this long.... what is pretty cool... is it is all here.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You dumbfuck.... it is apparent you continue to digress because you were beated to a pulp on your silly, contrived SPAM as a function of conspiracy theories.... now religion is introduced. Man, can you stay on track? Where is the evidence about the demolitions... not, "I heard did or dat" not, "it is obvious" ... where is fucking evidence?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Go FUCK YOURSELF, YOU SON_OF_A_BITCH... I anm tired of your BS. Go creep back into your little circle jerk friends and play center point.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
LOL! They both look completely addled. But, they are keepin' it real...real dumb.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. And the guy who issued it should be prosecuted.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. You have it somewhat backwards. His trainers state that he skipped class, and did extremely poorly when he DID attend class. They describe him as a terrible student and even worse pilot, who basically couldn't fly at all. As far as the manuevers that the alleged Flight 77 performed in its attack on the Pentagon, only a SUPER pilot could have pulled that off, and more than likely only a remote pilot using COMPUTER ASSISTED guidance and control (beyond the NORMAL computer aids that help control the aircraft in flight) could have pulled that off, especially the final approach aspect of the flight.
Well, I don't believe buck could work "rolling winos" because of professional courtesy but maybe he could do some of that other stuff (when he isn't inventing a new kernel for the net).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Sorry buck, I'm not familiar with that term, "center point". Can you or your circle mate AGAviator explain that me? It's pretty well known that you guys both have a lot of experience in "circle jerks".
So FBI reports, witness testimony, news reports, and excerpts from the 9/11 Commission report is "SPAM", while your incessant bloviating and nastiness is the "good stuff", eh? If anything there buck, you've beaten YOURSELF to a pulp here on this thread.
More like an excellent example of the lies you and your pal have attempted to perpetrate here on this forum.
You would know, wouldn't ya? You haven't introduced one idea on this thread that is worth any merit other than a laff.... You believe in a conspiracy? Where's the PROOF about it? With wud's chemtrails?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Stutts wrote software which performs the task of decompressing and decoding the raw flight recorder data, which is something YOU obviously could NEVER do, Mr. MSEE. BTW, have you figured out what TCP/IP is yet?
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe liars think the truthers are stupid.
#1109. To: AGAviator (#1096)
(Edited)
(9) The statement by Controlled Demoliton President Mark Loziaux that it would simply not be possible for any WTC building to be prepped for CD's without being seen,
#1110. To: IRTorqued (#1095)
it would cause the unemployment numbers to jump by three; as bucky, AGovshill and turtle would be out of liar movement work.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1111. To: IRTorqued (#1100)
AGovshill must be dipping into bucky's sterno a bit heavy tonight. at best the members of the liar movement could be sited as examples of how well the dumbing down of America is progressing.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1112. To: FormerLurker (#1105)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1113. To: FormerLurker (#1105)
(Edited)
blowviator: (14) "Pull" = "pull down with cables" construction, and = "pull back" fire fighters,
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1114. To: GreyLmist (#1109)
As for Loizeaux, he states himself that 9/11 ruined him on account of everybody got too scared of loud noises after that, so that should be a clue to you that he isn't playing with a full deck, as they say. Obviously, the real reason his business disipated afterwards was because his prospective customers musta lurnt there's no use for his expensive "artform" anymore. All that's necessary is to punch a hole -- or a few holes -- in a building, sprinkle it with some trademark Magical Jet Fuel, light up a match, and wait a bit for it to burn down into its own footprint, yes?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1115. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#1038)
buckeroo: Hanjour was certified as both a private pilot and commercial aircraft.
#1116. To: buckeroo, FormerLurker, wudidiz, IRTorqued, James Deffenbach, all (#1115)
(Edited)
buckeroo: Hanjour was certified as both a private pilot and commercial aircraft.
#1117. To: buckeroo (#1115)
Wait a minute. You have repeatedly danced around Hanjour's "lack of certifications" for piles of posts on this thread and at least one other about your silly-wet dream of a cabin door. Now, that I provided hard factual evidence of those same certifications, you are saying he wasn't really qualified.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1118. To: Original_Intent (#1116)
He NEVER flew a jet aircraft - the largest thing he ever flew was a twin engine propeller driven Beechraft four seater.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1119. To: FormerLurker (#1118)
#1120. To: Original_Intent, buckeroo (#1116)
Attempting to assert that Hanjour was a qualified pilot and capable enough to perform the observed maneuvers is simply a lie and a distortion of the clear facts - Hanjour was incompetent as a pilot. It cannot be characterized any other way. To assert otherwise is simply disinformation. Why do you find it necessary to use disinformation tactics?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1121. To: FormerLurker (#1118)
"... The certificate was issued by Daryl M. Strong, an independent contractor for the FAA, with an "Airplane Multiengine Land" rating. To obtain the certificate, Hanjour’s records show he flew his check ride in a Piper PA 23-150 "Apache", a four-seat twin-engine plane, which Hanjour was in command of for 14.8 hours of the 27 hours completed for the test.35
Contrary to the Washington Post’s assertion that this certificate allowed him "to fly commercial jets", in fact it only allowed him to begin passenger jet training. Hanjour did so, only to fail the class.36 As the Associated Press reported, the "certification allowed him to begin passenger jet training at an Arizona flight school despite having what instructors later described as limited flying skills and an even more limited command of English."37
Furthermore, there remains an open question about whether Hanjour was actually qualified to receive that certificate in the first place. According to Heather Awsumb, a spokeswoman for Professional Airways Systems Specialists (PASS), a union that represents FAA employees, "The real problem is that regular oversight is handed over to private industry", since private contractors "receive between $200 and $300 for each check flight. If they get a reputation for being tough, they won’t get any business." ..."
#1122. To: Original_Intent (#1116)
Still catapulting the lies I see.
#1123. To: James Deffenbach (#1112)
What I want to know is where do you find such people (dumber than blowviator) outside mental institutions?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1124. To: buckeroo (#1122)
#1125. To: Original_Intent (#1119)
I might have misremembered
#1126. To: buckeroo (#1122)
When FL repeatedly spun Hanjour's background.... look it up your self BSer .... I jumped in and posted the documentation about those certifications AND his records of flight instruction to INCLUDE his instructor.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1127. To: Original_Intent (#1124)
Wrong again - the assertions made, when and where, are not relevant to exposing your misrepresentations.
#1128. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent (#1125)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1129. To: FormerLurker (#1126)
And according to his instructors, he was a terrible student and even worse pilot. One said, "he couldn't fly at all". One school called the FAA to verify that he actually possessed a license, thinking that what he presented was a fake, since he lacked any of the skills required of a person holding that sort of license.
#1130. To: buckeroo (#1127)
You are insane.... FL has repeatedly misrepresented Hanjour has his "Holy Grail."
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1131. To: FormerLurker (#1128)
OI admits when he made an error
#1132. To: James Deffenbach (#1110)
Maybe they could find some honest work. What you reckon?
#1133. To: buckeroo, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, abraxas, wudidiz, IRTorqued, GreyLmist, RickyJ (#1129)
(Edited)
So what?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1134. To: buckeroo (#1115)
What the fuck are you doing? The guy was trained to fly ... and knew instrumentation required to steer the craft where he wanted.
Buried in the footnote for the paragraph suggesting Hanjour began training "in earnest", the 9/11 Commission report acknowledged that "Hanjour initially was nervous if not fearful in flight training" and that "His instructor described him as a terrible pilot."33 FBI documents cited by the Commission reveal that witnesses from the school told investigators that "Hanjour was a terrible pilot. Hanjour had difficulty understanding air traffic control, the methods for determining fuel management and had poor navigational skills." The FBI was told by one witness that "the only flying skill Hanjour could perform was flying the plane straight", and that "he did not believe Hanjour’s poor flying skills were due to a language barrier." He was "a very poor pilot who did not react to criticism very well. Hanjour was very, very nervous inside the cockpit to the point where Hanjour was almost fearful."32
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1135. To: FormerLurker (#1134)
#1136. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#1097)
You're the one who introduced "religious belief" into the discussion thread about challenges to demolition theory," anaerobe.
#1137. To: AGAviator (#1096)
(1) The 9.22 freefall time, (2)The AA cabin door not opening claims, (3) Claims that Hajour couldn't fly and never had a license, (4) Denials that Prof. Steven E. Jones authored "Christ Visited the Mayans," (5) Claims of "molten steel" which was actually burning aluminum and office fire trash, (6) The kinetic energy of the WTC airliner crashes being over 1 giagajoule, (7) Trashing Thomas Eagar without providing any substantive facts on his WTC explanation, his CV, or his patents, (8) The false claim that structures falling at less than near free fall speeds are still CD's when in fact CD companies spend months setting up buildings to make sure they fall straight down as quickly as possible, (9) The statement by Controlled Demoliton President Mark Loziaux that it would simply not be possible for any WTC building to be prepped for CD's without being seen, (9) The back pedaling on a statement by a former CD employee saying he actually does not know what caused the WTC collapses, but he is putting forth scenarios of equipment he believes could have been used, (10) The easily debunked statements about insider trading pre 911, (11) The false claim the WTC building was designed to withstand a 600 mph jet crash when in fact it was designed for a 250 knot air space speed the max allowed where it was located, (12) The idiotic claim that "they" wanted to hit the Pentagon, but only in harmless places - it was all part of the conspiracy to whack New York but not Washington Pentagon chickenhawks, (13) Over 30 phone calls describing hijackers recorded giving seat numbers and hijacker descriptions, (14) "Pull" = "pull down with cables" construction, and = "pull back" fire fighters, (15) Niels Harrit "peer review" = $800 pay to publish Dubai hole in the wall
#1138. To: FormerLurker (#1091)
It's also quite obvious that you BOTH have a fervent religious belief in the "Official 9/11 Faerie Tale ™", and that you both get highly agitated and foam at the mouth whenever anybody posts facts and evidence that contradicts your religous belief in that story.
#1139. To: FormerLurker (#1091)
The only "jerkers" here are you and buck, and I'm sure you're both very close.
#1140. To: FormerLurker (#1123)
Here's their photo (I'm guessing the one on the right is buck) ..
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1141. To: FormerLurker (#1130)
The evidence and documentation indicates he was NOT qualified to hold that license.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1142. To: buckeroo (#1135)
He went through flight training... he received certification. His later antics on 9/11 PROVE he was far from an expert.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1143. To: abraxas (#1132)
Oh no, honest work is for honest people. I reckon used car salesman, pyramid marketing, selling ponzi schemes, rolling winos or pushing big pharma wares.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#1144. To: buckeroo (#1139)
Go FUCK YOURSELF, YOU SON_OF_A_BITCH... I anm tired of your BS. Go creep back into your little circle jerk friends and play center point.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1145. To: buckeroo (#1138)
you were beated to a pulp on your silly, contrived SPAM
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1146. To: buckeroo (#1137)
Excellent track records of the significant points
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#1147. To: abraxas (#1090)
That post is like reading a note taken from a middle school girl.
#1148. To: buckeroo (#1135)
your pal, Stutts doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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