See other 9/11 Articles
Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 19275
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#142. To: abraxas, buckeroo, (#138)
There were no explosions reported prior to aircraft impacts. Not on your posted, not on anybody else's other statements anywhere. So now you have two sets of phenomena to explain, (1) Why explosions reported immediately after the aircraft crashes are not caused by the aircraft crashes, and (2) Why and how the explosions reported immediately after the aircraft crashes did take place with methods and means not at all connected to those crashes. These explanations have not been done over the last 8 1/2 years in spite of thousands of claims made on hundreds or thousands of internet sites. Yet the people pushing these claims still claim after all this time that they are the ones with the truth and anybody who challenges their unproven versions of events is on the side of their imagined enemy, an all-powerful government that can't even manage its own wars and administration but nevertheless has been able to flawlessly pull off the most complex conspiracy in world history. Now that's what's dishonest.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem is, NIST never provides any credible evidence of substantial testing and research of this said phenomenon. In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse. And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
And that is a flat out lie. See the testimony of William Rodriquez who was lauded as a hero for the number of lives he saved. And then villified for providing testimony directly contradictory to the "Official Fairy Tale™". Link to source (although his testimony and witness is widely available). Excerpt From Interview: "...On September 11, 2001, Rodriguez, who worked for American Building Maintenance, was 30 minutes late for work arriving at 8:30 a.m. After leaving his backpack in his closet on the 33rd floor he went to his company office in the tower's basement. At 8:45, he was talking with his supervisor in the first basement level, B1, when he heard and felt a tremendous explosion. Rodriguez told AFP that he felt the first explosion come from a lower basement level. The towers had 6 basement levels. The building shook, the ceiling fell, and some of the sprinklers began spraying. "Oh my God, what happened?" Rodriguez, who survived the first bombing of the WTC in 1993, told AFP he recalled saying to his boss. "I think it was the electrical generators." No sooner had he spoken these words than a second explosion shook the building, this time coming from the upper part of the tower. This second shock, Rodriguez said, shook the building and cracked the walls. "The building moved," he said. At this point, Felipe David, a Honduran who worked for Aramark and maintained the tower's vending machines, appeared before Rodriguez with his arms outstretched. "It looked like clothing was hanging from his fingers," Rodriguez said, "but it was the skin from his arms." "Explosion, explosion," David said. "The elevator, the elevator." Rodriguez then felt a third explosion coming from above. "The ground was shaking," he said. "I thought it was an earthquake." ..."
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in. And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model. Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap. Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I'm not interested in your dishonesty about the contents of the video. I know what the WITNESSES stated.......only you think you know more about what they witnessed despite being far, far away. There has always been this unexplained EXPLOSION phenomenon, since 9-11-2001. However,the government story you cling to with ALL YOUR MIGHT ignores these people, especially that janitor at the end of the video who saved peoples' lives from the EXPLOSIONS in the sub floor areas prior to collapse. YOU, nowhere near the buildings (kissing government ass in another state I suspect), claim that YOU know more about these explosions that frickin' EYE WITNESSES and people who WORKED in the buildings and people who SAVED LIVES on that day. YOU and the government can IGNORE them, but that only discredits your official bullshit story more. You run along and tell these people who were there that they are full of shit and only YOU know the truth of the matter. I know, not only are you a liar but you are also a coward who wouldn't say word one to them if you had them front and center, but it's real easy to talk shit about what they witnessed from such a distance.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
What are you jabbering about?
Good post, abraxas.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I am not questioning the sincerity and authenticity of a few opinions and points of view based upon a disaster wherein thousands panicked for their own lives and ran to possible safety to allude their own deaths. But a relative few stories taken into perspective with a much larger view shows little or no substance towards what really happened.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
ROTFL ... you can't argue your way with facts on any level.... but, I must say ... you can look pretty in your tutu dancing on the stage with a couple of suggestions while dancing and prancing around the main central theme of the thread.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Are you willing and able to defend the contents of your esteemed reference material?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
On WTC7? The generators were on three different floors .... mostly on the fifth floor as there were twelve generators. Now, that same janitor is one opinion and observer to a HUGE event. Can you take his opinion as the WORD proving explosions when in a parking garage, it is almost an echo chamber because of acoustic characteristics from the above floors?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I gave you the link to the NIST report. You read it. I refuse to deal with all those details that later created the collapse of WTC7. I suppose you have found a way to tie in some serious details about demolitions or sabotage by now. Where are the eyewitnesses? You know, there were thousands of witnesses and alive tragic stricken victims in NYC that day ... at least one would cough up some testimony and/or hard evidence by now .... why are you holding back this key evidence, O_I?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Everyone of the trade center buildings fell from the top or mid-levels downward ... not from the subfloors (less than ground level) to the top up. All photographic evidence shows that point.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Thanks James........here's a funny joke for you. : ) A senior citizen's excuse---- A senior citizen drove his brand new Corvette convertible out of the dealership. Taking off down the road, he floored it to 80 mph, enjoying the wind blowing through what little hair he had left. "Amazing," he thought as he flew down I-95, pushing the pedal even more. Looking in his rear view mirror, he saw a state trooper behind him, lights flashing and siren blaring. He floored it to 100 mph, then 110, then 120. Suddenly he thought, "What am I doing? I'm too old for this," and pulled over to await the trooper's arrival. Pulling in behind him, the trooper walked up to the Corvette, looked at his watch, and said, "Sir, my shift ends in 30 minutes. Today is Friday. If you can give me a reason for speeding that I've never heard before, I'll let you go." The old gentleman paused. Then said, "Years ago, my wife ran off with a State trooper. I thought you were bringing her back..." "Have a good day, sir," replied the trooper.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade. Yes, from your far away DISadvantage point you feel that you can ridicule those who were there while you spit on your monitor. The guy who worked there should have been a key person of interest for NIST.....but they have to INGORE him and the EXPLOSIONS because he doesn't jive with the government conspiracy theory.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Buildings only fall into their own foot print when critical structural integrity on the foundation is blown out. Photographic evidence and testimony from demo EXPERTS, not Internet bloviators, confirm that.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Are you aware of the foundation about the subfloors for WTC7? If so, let me know ... I do. WT7 was built on an old Edison Power regeneration facility with subfloors extending 6 floors below ground level. It was an echo chamber during the calamity. I know the janitor heard lots of things... but he didn't see a blast and he wasn't killed in a blast was he? BTW, most all 4,000 occupants of WTC7 had been evacuated before the first tower collapse.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
And that Corvette wouldn't do but 120? WTH? Did he buy a lemon? ahaha.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. That's part of what does it for me. We are talking not one, not two but three buildings. All of which are damaged differently, burning differently yet fall perfectly in their own foot prints. Really? What are the odds of that happening without explosive guidance?
Name calling is juvenile.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
Buck, that janiter was in the main towers. I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint and Larry Silverstein didn't say "pull it" on any of those buildings. Actually, you don't know what the janitor says, knew or heard. He's alive and has been educating people on 911 for years. Too bad you didn't bother to get his input, but it's understandable since the government ignored him and that's the ONLY source for you.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So many posts about WTC7 are here, that it is necessary to be more precise. The original thread material is about the twin towers besides the links for supplemental calculations and theory that I posted towards the top of the thread. Later, because O_I and other want to pull the thread off course, they used WTC7 as material to convolute the argument with confusion. This happens all the time. So, please help me with specific references on the bldgs or events as 9/11 is confusing all by itself. Even so..... you are referring to apparent damage with the other buildings. WTC7 was ready to collapse because of its central core beams disjointing and collapsing; it wasn't apparent to the naked eye as fires rampaged throughout the day weakening the trusses beyond their rated load strength.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You're the one who introduced offtopic jabber about Oliver North into the discussion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, but you got to take into account the Magickal Jet Fuel™, Santa Claus and his drunken sleigh ride, falling out and bouncing off 1 and 2 and hitting 7 and then the Easter Bunny getting mad and throwing an egg at it. Maybe even more than one. All of which makes as much sense as the Official Conspiracy Theory® that buck is fronting.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. What a delusional flockwit you are, to claim that people present at the crashes don't say that airplanes crashed into the buildings and aircraft collision caused their subsequent collapse. Name EYE WITNESSES who SAVED LIVES who don't claim that AIRCRAFT CRASHES caused the Twin Towers to come down.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look up in the sky! Its a bird! No, its a plane! No, its TWOOFER_MAN™!
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
That's because I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT YOU LYING POS!!!!! Go track down this blatant fucking lie and post it. When you fail to find it,try to be a deceent human being and apologize for your blatent dishonesty. Of course, nobody here actually believes you are the least bit decent, but you could prove that you do have an iota of decency by owning your own lies.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."--Firefighter Richard Banaciski "I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?" --Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory "[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'." --Paramedic Daniel Rivera -Quoted by David Ray Griffin in Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories
There is no long form.
The janitor in the main tower discusses the explosions. We were discussing the EXPLOSIONS........ Nobody was talking about the airplanes crashing into the buildings, other than you in an attempt to divert, distract and blow smoke up Buck's ass and wait naked and giggling like a school girl for him to return the favor. Buck just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view. What's next a blow job for Buckie on this thread--you sure are on your knees enough for that to be the next logical progression in your relationship with Buck.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Be clear now .. is it the popularly known North or the South Tower of the WTC?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yeah, let's be clear. William Rodríguez was a janitor at the North Tower of the World Trade Center during the September 11, 2001 attacks and was in the basement of the North Tower when American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the building. After the attacks he received several awards for heroism for helping in the evacuation of many survivors. Is that clear enough for you to grasp? Not that you will investigate what this eye witness has to say......but just for the sake of bloviating.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
This thread is about the demolition theory of the WTC. Check my early thread postings and all my later references to include theoretical calculations (provided in links) from non-government personnel AND (I might add) to include hotlinks to the NIST reports for your viewing pleasure. Now, you are talking about my ass? How strange and fanciful......
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Nah, just noting AGAbloviators skill at kissing and blowing smoke up your ass. It's really not much of a compliment......I think he'd drop to his knees on a dime for just about anybody who pays him the least bit of attention. I find it comical to watch your ego expand over a couple of remarks from a two bit whore. Strange and fanciful indeed.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Now, I can reference your material. Thank you. All I need are a few factual data points to reference so I can learn I am not going to clobber you because I may disagree at a later time. I honestly want to learn and I have no axe to grind with you or anyone. I initiated this thread because of the many other threads that have spun off to oblivion for one thing or another. I am hoping we can all learn from each other's opinions without sacrificing our mutual respect on a hottopic.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You obviously have your mind made up with pre-existing opinions. Now you are damning AG who is pilot. I can't argue for AG's opinions anymore than yours. AG doesn't agree with me on many things so it is wrong of you to think or consider or even post the comment you intentionally performed within this venue. For this thread: we are discussing the demolition theory of the WTC. Can you add, subtract or multipy and divide on that same theory without attempting to become emotional or defensive? It will be helpful. And I thank you for serious research.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Prof. Griffin has a similar axe to grind as WorldNutDaily's famous Jerome Corsi has about publick BS. Just because someone flaunts a personal opin because they have a little educational background hardly makes them "experts." I provided a link @post#145 about Griffin's published documented analysis [why didn't anyone else on this thread do that?]. Take a peek and get back to me when you can. Your dialogue about critical thinking is well respected by me.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not gonna happen. That's not in the training manual at CENTCOM.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in. And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model. Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap. Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan? Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis. Otherwise all you post is vacuous drivel which avoids facts and focuses only on unsubstantiated personal attacks. Since you know what you are doing it can only be classified as intentionally dishonest.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What analysis? There is no argument by Griffin based on any data other than speculation based upon panick during a major tragedy. Griffin is the essential TWOOFER_MAN for this crap.... (at least) I offer your own background to explain where you get this crap... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Sure he is. And I'm a Angelina Jolie when I'm not posting here at 4um. The EXPLOSIONS are a direct correlation to the domolition theory, Einstein. Why is this SO difficult for you to grasp? What would be helpful is you're pulling your nose out of AGAbloviator's butt long enough to keep on topic. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Comments (183 - 1209) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThey discuss explosions at the time of initial plane impact and prior to the buildings collapsing........you are the only one cherry picking content to fit your story telling.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#143. To: Kamala (#137)
The entire NIST theory rests upon the removal of all 80,000 square feet of the fireproofing/SFRM in each of the impact zones of the towers.
Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in.
#144. To: AGAviator, abraxas, James Deffenbach, wudidiz, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, all (#142)
There were no explosions reported prior to aircraft impacts. Not on your posted, not on anybody else's other statements anywhere.
#145. To: Original_Intent, Kamala, AGAviator (#143)
In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.
#146. To: AGAviator (#142)
#147. To: AGAviator (#135)
#148. To: abraxas (#146)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#149. To: Eric Stratton (#132)
You haven't seen the hundreds of people, hundreds of fucking people, saying exactly that on youtube?!?! Firefighters, police, "average joe" citizens, ...
#150. To: Original_Intent (#129)
Despite the annoyance
#151. To: Original_Intent (#128)
Here's a link if you're curious: 911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html
#152. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#127)
You ignore the janitor who saved peoples' lives and was an eye witness to explosions in the parking garages and where the generators were kept.
#153. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#118)
Then you cited unspecified damage from the collapse of the other 2 towers.
#154. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#117)
The explosions were in the SUB FLOORS.
#155. To: James Deffenbach (#148)
#156. To: buckeroo (#153)
#157. To: buckeroo (#154)
#158. To: abraxas (#156)
Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade.
#159. To: abraxas (#155)
"Years ago, my wife ran off with a State trooper. I thought you were bringing her back..."
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#160. To: abraxas, buckeroo, Original_Intent (#157)
Buildings only fall into their own foot print when critical structural integrity on the foundation is blown out.
#161. To: buckeroo, All (#149)
#162. To: buckeroo (#158)
#163. To: abraxas (#162)
all I know is that building [WTC7] was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint
#164. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#147)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#165. To: abraxas (#162)
I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#166. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#146)
(Edited)
YOU, nowhere near the buildings (kissing government ass in another state I suspect), claim that YOU know more about these explosions that frickin' EYE WITNESSES and people who WORKED in the buildings and people who SAVED LIVES on that day. YOU and the government can IGNORE them, but that only discredits your official bullshit story more.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#167. To: AGAviator (#166)
Name EYE WITNESSES who SAVED LIVES who don't claim that AIRCRAFT CRASHES caused the Twin Towers to come down.
#168. To: AGAviator (#166)
What a delusional flockwit you are, to claim that people present at the crashes don't say that airplanes crashed into the buildings and aircraft collision caused their subsequent collapse.
#169. To: buckeroo (#167)
#170. To: AGAviator, buckaroo (#166)
#171. To: abraxas (#170)
The janitor in the main tower discusses the explosions.
#172. To: buckeroo (#171)
#173. To: abraxas (#170)
Nobody was talking about the airplanes crashing into the buildings, other than you in an attempt to divert, distract and blow smoke up Buck's ass and wait naked and giggling like a school girl for him to return the favor.
#174. To: buckeroo, AGAbloviator (#173)
Now, you are talking about my ass? How strange and fanciful......
#175. To: abraxas, ALL (#172)
(Edited)
your from your established viewpoint.
#176. To: abraxas, AGAviator (#174)
#177. To: randge, AGAviator (#169)
David Ray Griffin
#178. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Critter, abraxas, all (#168)
...try to be a deceent human being...
#179. To: buckeroo, Kamala (#145)
In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.
#180. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis.
#181. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#182. To: buckeroo (#176)
Now you are damning AG who is pilot.
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