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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 18724
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 162.

#2. To: buckeroo (#0)

Two problems:

1. The videos that show the collapse.

2. The reason the collapse was initiated. There is no proof that the aircraft, or fires, are what set it off. As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.

For a theory to be valid it must account for all of the observed phenomena.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   17:53:35 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#2)

As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.

The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   20:17:46 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: buckeroo (#43)

The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again? You know, the one that the BBC reported had collapsed 25 minutes before it did.

Check this out: THE WTC WAS DESIGNED TO SURVIVE THE IMPACT OF A BOEING 767

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   21:27:16 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?

Of course no aircraft struck WTC7.

But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   21:33:20 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: buckeroo (#51)

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?

Of course no aircraft struck WTC7.

But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day.

How so? And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false - they used a picture of WTC 6 which was damaged by debris, and did not fall - it was later demolished at great expense, and then reversed and falsely represented as "secret photos" of WTC 7.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   21:47:34 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#52)

And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false

ROTFL

How about, Final Report on WTC7 - NIST, ever read it? If so, please comment.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   22:04:41 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: buckeroo (#57)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   22:07:56 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Original_Intent (#58)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   22:12:45 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: buckeroo (#60)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?

You cited an entire document as a reference. That is not a refutation. It is an evasion. Cite where in the report your refutation comes from - page and paragraph(s).

My reading habits are not the question. You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   0:01:45 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Original_Intent (#89)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:08:49 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: buckeroo (#92)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

I do believe you are running a circuit of what Gerard Holmgren calls "The Fruit Loop".

So, you agreed that no plane hit WTC 7.

Then you cited unspecified damage from the collapse of the other 2 towers.

When asked to cite why you believe that, not including the discredited Pop Mechanics Disinfo piece you replied with a vague reference to the NIST Report (which itself has been shredded).

When asked to cite what and where specifically in the report you gave me the above. More evasion.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   1:16:36 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#153. To: Original_Intent, AGAviator (#118)

Then you cited unspecified damage from the collapse of the other 2 towers.

I gave you the link to the NIST report. You read it. I refuse to deal with all those details that later created the collapse of WTC7.

I suppose you have found a way to tie in some serious details about demolitions or sabotage by now. Where are the eyewitnesses? You know, there were thousands of witnesses and alive tragic stricken victims in NYC that day ... at least one would cough up some testimony and/or hard evidence by now .... why are you holding back this key evidence, O_I?

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   16:50:56 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#156. To: buckeroo (#153)

Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade. Yes, from your far away DISadvantage point you feel that you can ridicule those who were there while you spit on your monitor. The guy who worked there should have been a key person of interest for NIST.....but they have to INGORE him and the EXPLOSIONS because he doesn't jive with the government conspiracy theory.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   17:03:58 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#158. To: abraxas (#156)

Right, you know more than the guy who worked in the building on maintenance for more than a decade.

Are you aware of the foundation about the subfloors for WTC7? If so, let me know ... I do. WT7 was built on an old Edison Power regeneration facility with subfloors extending 6 floors below ground level.

It was an echo chamber during the calamity. I know the janitor heard lots of things... but he didn't see a blast and he wasn't killed in a blast was he? BTW, most all 4,000 occupants of WTC7 had been evacuated before the first tower collapse.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   17:08:18 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#162. To: buckeroo (#158)

Buck, that janiter was in the main towers.

I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint and Larry Silverstein didn't say "pull it" on any of those buildings.

Actually, you don't know what the janitor says, knew or heard. He's alive and has been educating people on 911 for years. Too bad you didn't bother to get his input, but it's understandable since the government ignored him and that's the ONLY source for you.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   17:13:03 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 162.

#163. To: abraxas (#162)

all I know is that building [WTC7] was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint

So many posts about WTC7 are here, that it is necessary to be more precise. The original thread material is about the twin towers besides the links for supplemental calculations and theory that I posted towards the top of the thread. Later, because O_I and other want to pull the thread off course, they used WTC7 as material to convolute the argument with confusion.

This happens all the time. So, please help me with specific references on the bldgs or events as 9/11 is confusing all by itself. Even so.....

you are referring to apparent damage with the other buildings. WTC7 was ready to collapse because of its central core beams disjointing and collapsing; it wasn't apparent to the naked eye as fires rampaged throughout the day weakening the trusses beyond their rated load strength.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18 17:29:43 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#165. To: abraxas (#162)

I don't know who did the maintenance in WT7......all I know is that building was far less damaged than 3,4,5 and 6 and they didn't fall into their own footprint

Yeah, but you got to take into account the Magickal Jet Fuel™, Santa Claus and his drunken sleigh ride, falling out and bouncing off 1 and 2 and hitting 7 and then the Easter Bunny getting mad and throwing an egg at it. Maybe even more than one. All of which makes as much sense as the Official Conspiracy Theory® that buck is fronting.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-07-18 17:35:55 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 162.

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