[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Trump expected to shake up White House briefing room

Ukrainians have stolen up to half of US aid ex-Polish deputy minister

Gaza doctor raped, tortured to death in Israeli custody, new report reveals

German Lutheran Church Bans AfD Members From Committees, Calls Party 'Anti-Human'

Berlin Teachers Sound Alarm Over Educational Crisis Caused By Multiculturalism

Trump Hosts Secret Global Peace Summit at Mar-a-Lago!

Heat Is Radiating From A Huge Mass Under The Moon

Elon Musk Delivers a Telling Response When Donald Trump Jr. Suggests

FBI recovers funds for victims of scammed banker

Mark Felton: Can Russia Attack Britain?

Notre Dame Apologizes After Telling Hockey Fans Not To Wear Green, Shamrocks, 'Fighting Irish'

Dear Horse, which one of your posts has the Deep State so spun up that's causing 4um to run slow?

Bomb Cyclone Pacific Northwest

Death Certificates Reveal FBI 'Revised' Murder Stats Still Bogus

A $110B bubble on $500M earnings. History warns: Bubbles always burst.

Joy Behar says people like their show because they tell the truth, unlike "dragon believer" Joe Rogan.

Male Passenger Disappointed After Another Flight Ends Without A Stewardess Frantically Asking If Anyone Can Land The Plane

Could the Rapid Growth of AI Boost Gold Demand?

LOOK AT MY ASS!

Elon Musk Responds As British Government "Summons" Him To 'Disinformation' Hearing

MSNBC Contributor Panics Over Trump Nominating Bondi For AG: Dangerous Because Shes Competent

House passes dangerous bill that targets nonprofits, pro-Palestine groups

Navy Will Sideline 17 Support Vessels to Ease Strain on Civilian Mariners

Israel carries out field executions, massacres in north Gaza

AOC votes to back Israel Lobby's bogus anti-Semitism definition

Biden to launch ICE mobile app, further disrupting Trump's mass deportation plan: Report

Panic at Mar-a-Lago: How the Fake Press Pool Fueled Global Fear Until X Set the Record Straight

Donald Trumps Nominee for the FCC Will Remove DEI as a Priority of the Agency

Stealing JFK's Body

Trump plans to revive Keystone XL pipeline to solidify U.S. energy independence


9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 25574
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

[Thread Locked]   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 180.

#2. To: buckeroo (#0)

Two problems:

1. The videos that show the collapse.

2. The reason the collapse was initiated. There is no proof that the aircraft, or fires, are what set it off. As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.

For a theory to be valid it must account for all of the observed phenomena.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   17:53:35 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Original_Intent (#2)

As well an explosive demolition would show basically the same signature, and the theory does not explain why one tower took about 14 seconds to collapse and the other identical tower 22-23 seconds.

The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   20:17:46 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: buckeroo (#43)

The two towers were "hit" differently and the central core supports were damaged differently as a result. Check this out: Impact to Collapse by NOVA.

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again? You know, the one that the BBC reported had collapsed 25 minutes before it did.

Check this out: THE WTC WAS DESIGNED TO SURVIVE THE IMPACT OF A BOEING 767

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   21:27:16 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Original_Intent (#48)

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?

Of course no aircraft struck WTC7.

But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   21:33:20 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: buckeroo (#51)

What type of plane hit WTC 7 again?

Of course no aircraft struck WTC7.

But it was damaged from the collapse of the twin towers earlier in the day.

How so? And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false - they used a picture of WTC 6 which was damaged by debris, and did not fall - it was later demolished at great expense, and then reversed and falsely represented as "secret photos" of WTC 7.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   21:47:34 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#52)

And don't try and dredge up the Pop Mechanics piece because it has already been proven false

ROTFL

How about, Final Report on WTC7 - NIST, ever read it? If so, please comment.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   22:04:41 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: buckeroo (#57)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-17   22:07:56 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Original_Intent (#58)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-17   22:12:45 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: buckeroo (#60)

Cite your specific reference - not the totality of a multi-thousand page report.

Hold on there pardner! WHOA! Have you read that document at anytime?

You cited an entire document as a reference. That is not a refutation. It is an evasion. Cite where in the report your refutation comes from - page and paragraph(s).

My reading habits are not the question. You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   0:01:45 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Original_Intent (#89)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   0:08:49 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: buckeroo (#92)

You attempted to evade the point and I am not going to let you.

And I am not evading you or anyone. That is why I chose to initiate a thread with the title banner you see.

I do believe you are running a circuit of what Gerard Holmgren calls "The Fruit Loop".

So, you agreed that no plane hit WTC 7.

Then you cited unspecified damage from the collapse of the other 2 towers.

When asked to cite why you believe that, not including the discredited Pop Mechanics Disinfo piece you replied with a vague reference to the NIST Report (which itself has been shredded).

When asked to cite what and where specifically in the report you gave me the above. More evasion.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   1:16:36 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: Original_Intent (#118)

the only way any of the crap bucky copies and paste as part of his duties as a ranking member of the liar movement to have even a shred of accuracy is if that crap started out "once upon a time"

IRTorqued  posted on  2010-07-18   2:13:33 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: IRTorqued (#125)

the only way any of the crap bucky copies and paste as part of his duties as a ranking member of the liar movement to have even a shred of accuracy is if that crap started out "once upon a time"

LOL! I've been reading an interesting analysis of the NIST Report and it is an eye opener. They played some neat hanky panky with it complete with unsupported assumptions, unlabeled speculation mixed in with factual statement, and it made no analysis at all of how the collapse proceeded once it began. They just wave their magic wand and say it fell. Here's a link if you're curious: 911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   2:55:58 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: Original_Intent (#128)

The entire NIST theory rests upon the removal of all 80,000 square feet of the fireproofing/SFRM in each of the impact zones of the towers.

The problem is, NIST never provides any credible evidence of substantial testing and research of this said phenomenon.

Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in.

Kamala  posted on  2010-07-18   11:59:25 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: Kamala (#137)

The entire NIST theory rests upon the removal of all 80,000 square feet of the fireproofing/SFRM in each of the impact zones of the towers.

The problem is, NIST never provides any credible evidence of substantial testing and research of this said phenomenon.

In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.

Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in.

And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   15:33:25 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Original_Intent, Kamala, AGAviator (#143)

In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.

>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in.

And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model.

Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap.

Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan?

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   15:48:08 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#179. To: buckeroo, Kamala (#145)

In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.

>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in.

And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model.

Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap.

Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan?

Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis.

Otherwise all you post is vacuous drivel which avoids facts and focuses only on unsubstantiated personal attacks. Since you know what you are doing it can only be classified as intentionally dishonest.

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-07-18   19:37:28 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#180. To: Original_Intent (#179)

Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis.

What analysis? There is no argument by Griffin based on any data other than speculation based upon panick during a major tragedy.

Griffin is the essential TWOOFER_MAN for this crap.... (at least) I offer your own background to explain where you get this crap...

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-18   19:45:28 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 180.

        There are no replies to Comment # 180.


End Trace Mode for Comment # 180.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]