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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 18547
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#177. To: randge, AGAviator (#169)
Prof. Griffin has a similar axe to grind as WorldNutDaily's famous Jerome Corsi has about publick BS. Just because someone flaunts a personal opin because they have a little educational background hardly makes them "experts." I provided a link @post#145 about Griffin's published documented analysis [why didn't anyone else on this thread do that?]. Take a peek and get back to me when you can. Your dialogue about critical thinking is well respected by me.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Not gonna happen. That's not in the training manual at CENTCOM.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
>> Cartoon computer models are only as reliable as the data put in. And they are only as honest as the person running the model. You could make the model sing "The Battle Hymm of The Republic" with the right input parameters. NIST, very unscientifically for a purported investigation, assumes a conclusion and then sets out to validate that conclusion. Their supposed validation has so many flaws, half truths, and outright subterfuge that one cannot escape the conclusion that their modeling DID NOT validate their concluision and so they had to "adjust" the parameters to make the real world fit the model. Both of you are genuinely well read on Griffin's article, of which I reference here: The Mysterious Collapse of WTC7 by David Ray Griffin, yet there are no FACTS other than spinning this charlatan around in a vacuous washtub with old soap. Do you guys have the capability to stand on your own feet and discuss the original article as opposed to hiding behind the wild cover-ups of a cheap, charlatan? Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis. Otherwise all you post is vacuous drivel which avoids facts and focuses only on unsubstantiated personal attacks. Since you know what you are doing it can only be classified as intentionally dishonest.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
What analysis? There is no argument by Griffin based on any data other than speculation based upon panick during a major tragedy. Griffin is the essential TWOOFER_MAN for this crap.... (at least) I offer your own background to explain where you get this crap... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
The first casualty of war is the truth.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Sure he is. And I'm a Angelina Jolie when I'm not posting here at 4um. The EXPLOSIONS are a direct correlation to the domolition theory, Einstein. Why is this SO difficult for you to grasp? What would be helpful is you're pulling your nose out of AGAbloviator's butt long enough to keep on topic. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Mad Uncle Sugar. He'll leave his bones to bleach in that desert, I'll warrant. It's all the fault of the kind that bloviate crap on this forum, and you know who the hell I'm talking about. I find it abhorrent to draw a breath in the same country as those that propagate old lies. I have nothing to say to them. This country is going the way of Germany of the 1930s, and the innocent will be punished with the guilty.
There is no long form.
But you seem to deny the issue about the downward collapse pushing aire into the lower levels which is a serious fundamental attribute that seems to create "explosions" because of both the over-all pressure pushing glass out the building and associated acoustic characteristics. Remember, sometimes what "appears" is not "reality."
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
lol......I take all that into account when I'm gettin' some sun on the Perfect Pentalawn and also when I'm cruisin' in that "ground effect" in my airplane where I can go 500 miles an hour and not even scratch the lawn one iota even at just a few above the ground.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
How can I forget? I have a constant reminder every single time I read one of your posts. There is very little "reality" in what "appears" to be the government accounting of events on 911. Hence, it is very difficult for me to take your favorite source with more than a grain of salt. When did this "downward collapse" begin ?. You DO realize that people were making their way out of the buildings during this time frame. What I saw wasn't a slow collapse of the towers that went on for two or four hours. When it went, it went fast. Yet, witnesses claim explosions on the sub floors just as or just prior to the planes hitting the buildings. Of course, you like to ignore these eye witness accounts because you and AGAbloviator know FAR more than any person who was actually there.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
"I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building?" --Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory "[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop'." --Paramedic Daniel Rivera -Quoted by David Ray Griffin in Explosive Testimony: Revelations about the Twin Towers in the 9/11 Oral Histories We're going to get to the bottom of this eventually, meaning: start the speedy public trials followed by mass hangnings...and, Coincidently you can bet, around that time - the end of the world as we know it will be on us.
lol. buck, she pwned you on that one. ;)
And THAT is the sad part.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. Have you actually read a government report? Not long after the initial jet aircraft strike. Yes, both buildings collapsed separately with different overall longevity. But that is because they were struck differentially and at different levels of the buildings. That isn't a fair assessment at all. The central cores weakened by the impact and into the upper 1/3rd of the support beams and structures, physically rendered the capacity of resisting the mammoth force beyond design criteria.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
You lucky debil, you. I don't have one of those lawns or a plane that can go 500 mph yet. But when I get the plane I will see if I can get some seed for that lawn so I won't scuff it up as I ride 20 feet above it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. BLAH! Lets remove that silly term.. as it goes nowhere and I never use it, as it is silly. Now, lets DIG into some nitty-gritty ... any FACTUAL data about demolitions? Speak up, otherwise I OWN those naysayers.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
I read the ENTIRE 911 OMISSION report Buck.....you know that one that doesn't even mention WT7 falling into its own foot print. It's boring and mostly bovine excrement--have you read it? Why isn't that a fair assessment? You chime in on what the eye witnesses "really" saw and what they "really" meant and what they "really" think ad nauseum. Oh, yeah that "Magical Jetfuel" that doesn't burn off hot and fast when it hits oxygen worked like a forge.........in open air. Ever tried to get enough heat to bend metal in an open oxygen area? Doesn't work, which is why people use FORGES and it literally takes HOURS to weaken the steal in an oxygen reduced, red hot furnace. Without a forge, the weight load of the building wasn't enough to cut that steal in half and allow the building to fall......especially not in ALL those floors that had no magical jet fuel to speak of.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Why is your simple opinion coincident to Griffin's? Here he is (at least I present an opposing opinion to the thread that I presented) .... [edit: notice his chalkboard is erased and as a FULL PROFESSOR you would think he would deliver some sort of simple calculation or idea or concept or dialogue BUT NO ... ] And here is PART 2 from Griffin ... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Ever try to burn a green, or wet, brush pile with kerosene (which is what jet fuel is)? I have and it's not easy and takes lots. Works some better if you use a backpack blower (same principle as a forge), but I don't think I saw any people with backpack blowers on the videos I saw of the towers falling.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. One very important fact about structural engineering calculations is that few buildings are actually modeled and tested by structural engineers, before going up. So the engineering calculations and predictions aren't fully verified. Instead, the engineers try to overcompensate, by putting in more requirements than they actually think they need, to cover for any unknowns. As with the Titanic sinking, the untested calculations fail to take into account all possible real life events. It's unreasonable to expect un-verified calculations to be completely accurate 100% of the time. Especially from the same people who trash scientists and engineers for being part of the system and subject to error. Why is it that the same people who repeatedly attack scientists and engineers for being wrong and making up lies or repeating them, accept their unproven calculations about the WTC buildings able to withstand certain crashes, anyway? But yet the most optimum interpretation of unproven pre- impact calculations, from these same professionals, are supposed to be 100% right in all circumstances? Immediately after the aircraft hit there was considerable difference of opinion among engineers about what the next results would be. Some engineers said they expected a complete and total collapse, others thought the buildings would hold partially at worst. A bin Laden video recovered a few months after 911 shows OBL expressing surprise and happiness that the whole buildings went down. OBL says his own calculations showed the collapses would stop at the floors the planes impacted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've devoted infinitely more words and posts to gaysex remarks about buck than I ever have, because I've made zero, little STD-infected worm. Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day - to the subject shows the problem begins and ends within your panting, slobbering, degenerate, pathetic little excuse for a brain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We call that over calculation, "headroom." Some want 10%, others want 20% .. in the medical field it is 100%.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There was no iron in the WTC towers. Unless you are referring to the iron that was a byproduct of a thermite type reaction.
David Ray Griffin
#178. To: AGAviator, wudidiz, FormerLurker, IRTorqued, Critter, abraxas, all (#168)
...try to be a deceent human being...
#179. To: buckeroo, Kamala (#145)
In addition to providing no validating data for the assumptions on the fireproofing or the angles at which the aircraft hit the building they provide no validation for the number of central column support beams severed, show them as smaller than the perimeter columns (which the were not they were substantially LARGER), and provide no sound justification for the internal temperatures that they allege existed in the core prior to collapse.
#180. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Instead of engaging in attacking the man i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, perhaps you could specify exact what factual issue you take with the analysis.
#181. To: Original_Intent (#179)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#182. To: buckeroo (#176)
Now you are damning AG who is pilot.
#183. To: James Deffenbach (#181)
#184. To: abraxas (#182)
The EXPLOSIONS are a direct correlation to the domolition theory, Einstein.
#185. To: James Deffenbach (#165)
#186. To: buckeroo (#184)
Remember, sometimes what "appears" is not "reality."
#187. To: randge (#169)
"[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions."--Firefighter Richard Banaciski
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#188. To: abraxas, buckeroo (#186)
How can I forget? I have a constant reminder every single time I read one of your posts.
#189. To: randge (#183)
This country is going the way of Germany of the 1930s, and the innocent will be punished with the guilty.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#190. To: abraxas (#186)
There is very little "reality" in what "appears" to be the government accounting of events on 911.
When did this "downward collapse" begin ?
Of course, you like to ignore these eye witness accounts
When it went, it went fast.
#191. To: abraxas (#185)
lol......I take all that into account when I'm gettin' some sun on the Perfect Pentalawn and also when I'm cruisin' in that "ground effect" in my airplane where I can go 500 miles an hour and not even scratch the lawn one iota even at just a few above the ground.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#192. To: christine (#188)
she pwned you
#193. To: buckeroo (#190)
#194. To: abraxas (#193)
(Edited)
I read the ENTIRE 911 OMISSION report
#195. To: abraxas (#193)
Ever tried to get enough heat to bend metal in an open oxygen area?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#196. To: buckeroo, turtle, critter (#0)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#197. To: abraxas, buckeroo, critter, turtle (#170)
(Edited)
just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#198. To: AGAviator (#196)
Instead, the engineers try to overcompensate, by putting in more requirements than they actually think they need, to cover for any unknowns.
#199. To: AGAviator (#36)
Putting water onto iron heated above 300-400 degrees creates an exothermic reaction that was widely used in the 1800's.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#200. To: Critter (#199)
There were millions of pounds of structural steel, which chemically is iron.
There was no iron in the WTC towers. Unless you are referring to the iron that was a byproduct of a thermite type reaction.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#201. To: buckeroo (#77)
How did they turn you into a gov't shill buckie? Did they catch you cheating on your taxes? What?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#202. To: Critter (#201)
Just stop it, Jim, I am as poor as you and have nothing more than making a few posts that are substance oriented; I am tired of BS. Your remarck is dead wrong. Now look at the thread FACTS of what I performed. I am objective.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#203. To: AGAviator (#200)
Yeah, structural steel, not iron. There is a difference.
There were millions of pounds of structural steel
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#204. To: buckeroo (#202)
I just thought you were smarter. Anyone with a working brain who can think for themselves can see that there was more to those 3 collapses than just a few damaged columns and a fire. If cutting a few columns and pouring some kerosene in a building can take them down, why do professional demolition companies use explosives and careful timing to bring buildings down?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#205. To: Critter (#204)
PROVE IT, since you assume YOU have a working brain.
Anyone with a working brain who can think for themselves can see that there was more to those 3 collapses than just a few damaged columns and a fire.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#206. To: buckeroo (#205)
I know mine is working. I'm just wondering what stopped yours?
since you assume YOU have a working brain.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#207. To: Critter (#206)
In my case, I am still very capable of discerning the truth of physics and mathematics BEYOND political gullible assholes as GRIFFIN. At the top of thread, I have not just introduced the CONCEPT about this demolition theory but theoretical physics and mathematics in related links. (You have never seen this before) .... If you want to think of me as not having a brain, that is fine. But I am seriously tired of others not addressing the core issues such as Griffin's remarcks... and piles of people swallowing that asshole's perspective because they have no personal orientation or capability.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#208. To: buckeroo (#207)
I have been a hands on guy my whole life. I know how things work. I may not be formally educated in physics, but I understand what my eyes tell me. Promoters of the official conspiracy theory (fair tale) argue out one side of their mouths that it would take a team of hundreds working for weeks with tons of explosives to bring down those three buildings and out the other side of their mouths that a few cut columns and an office fire brought them down. Tell me why demolition companies don't do it the easy way, cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, come back in an hour and start hauling away debris? They won't even need a countdown. It doesn't get any easier than that, does it?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#209. To: Critter (#208)
On this thread ... help in explaining where the PROOF of CD or eyewitnesses are to any of the issues on 9/11. Hard evidence refuting mathematics and physics is required. [hint: just one witness on the inside planting, controlling or otherwise praying to Jesus on their own deathbed]
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#210. To: buckeroo (#209)
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility. Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#211. To: Critter (#210)
Why? Because I don't believe in BS conspiracy theories? Yes sir! Beats the shit out of me. Which ones brought down the WTC buildings on 9/11/2001.... After you make the factual claim, we might have something to go after other than BS, poppycock and innuendo.
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility.
Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#212. To: James Deffenbach (#195)
Well those master minds with box cutters were crafty enough to push that passport out the window. I bet they hopped out of the plane after impact with those back blowers ready to go...............
but I don't think I saw any people with backpack blowers on the videos I saw of the towers falling.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#213. To: buckeroo (#194)
Well, Buck, just goes to show that you know more about Mr. Griffin than I do. I like the work of physics professor Jones. Have you read his peer reviewed papers on this topic, nano thernmite, in particular?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#214. To: AGAviator (#197)
I have good gaydar and you are extremely obvious.......lol Egads, you're tracking my posting history? GET A F'ING LIFE PAL!!
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#215. To: abraxas (#214)
... Egads, you're tracking my posting history? I don't need to track them, imbecile. You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me, STD viruseater.
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#216. To: AGAviator (#215)
lol.....you keep track. Like I said.......GET A F'ING LIFE PAL. I would never waste a nano second taking a tally of your posts to me. You just aren't that significant, but, oh my, you have me down to the number five. Face it, that right there is the PATH to PATHETIC.
You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#217. To: abraxas, AGBloviator, AGAviator (#216)
If you keep this up poor widdle AGBloviator is gonna cry.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
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