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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
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Keywords: None
Views: 24895
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#194. To: abraxas (#193)
(Edited)
Why is your simple opinion coincident to Griffin's? Here he is (at least I present an opposing opinion to the thread that I presented) .... [edit: notice his chalkboard is erased and as a FULL PROFESSOR you would think he would deliver some sort of simple calculation or idea or concept or dialogue BUT NO ... ] And here is PART 2 from Griffin ... "we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Ever try to burn a green, or wet, brush pile with kerosene (which is what jet fuel is)? I have and it's not easy and takes lots. Works some better if you use a backpack blower (same principle as a forge), but I don't think I saw any people with backpack blowers on the videos I saw of the towers falling.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. One very important fact about structural engineering calculations is that few buildings are actually modeled and tested by structural engineers, before going up. So the engineering calculations and predictions aren't fully verified. Instead, the engineers try to overcompensate, by putting in more requirements than they actually think they need, to cover for any unknowns. As with the Titanic sinking, the untested calculations fail to take into account all possible real life events. It's unreasonable to expect un-verified calculations to be completely accurate 100% of the time. Especially from the same people who trash scientists and engineers for being part of the system and subject to error. Why is it that the same people who repeatedly attack scientists and engineers for being wrong and making up lies or repeating them, accept their unproven calculations about the WTC buildings able to withstand certain crashes, anyway? But yet the most optimum interpretation of unproven pre- impact calculations, from these same professionals, are supposed to be 100% right in all circumstances? Immediately after the aircraft hit there was considerable difference of opinion among engineers about what the next results would be. Some engineers said they expected a complete and total collapse, others thought the buildings would hold partially at worst. A bin Laden video recovered a few months after 911 shows OBL expressing surprise and happiness that the whole buildings went down. OBL says his own calculations showed the collapses would stop at the floors the planes impacted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You've devoted infinitely more words and posts to gaysex remarks about buck than I ever have, because I've made zero, little STD-infected worm. Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day - to the subject shows the problem begins and ends within your panting, slobbering, degenerate, pathetic little excuse for a brain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We call that over calculation, "headroom." Some want 10%, others want 20% .. in the medical field it is 100%.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
There was no iron in the WTC towers. Unless you are referring to the iron that was a byproduct of a thermite type reaction.
I read the ENTIRE 911 OMISSION report
#195. To: abraxas (#193)
Ever tried to get enough heat to bend metal in an open oxygen area?
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#196. To: buckeroo, turtle, critter (#0)
(Edited)
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#197. To: abraxas, buckeroo, critter, turtle (#170)
(Edited)
just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#198. To: AGAviator (#196)
Instead, the engineers try to overcompensate, by putting in more requirements than they actually think they need, to cover for any unknowns.
#199. To: AGAviator (#36)
Putting water onto iron heated above 300-400 degrees creates an exothermic reaction that was widely used in the 1800's.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#200. To: Critter (#199)
There were millions of pounds of structural steel, which chemically is iron.
There was no iron in the WTC towers. Unless you are referring to the iron that was a byproduct of a thermite type reaction.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#201. To: buckeroo (#77)
How did they turn you into a gov't shill buckie? Did they catch you cheating on your taxes? What?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#202. To: Critter (#201)
Just stop it, Jim, I am as poor as you and have nothing more than making a few posts that are substance oriented; I am tired of BS. Your remarck is dead wrong. Now look at the thread FACTS of what I performed. I am objective.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#203. To: AGAviator (#200)
Yeah, structural steel, not iron. There is a difference.
There were millions of pounds of structural steel
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#204. To: buckeroo (#202)
I just thought you were smarter. Anyone with a working brain who can think for themselves can see that there was more to those 3 collapses than just a few damaged columns and a fire. If cutting a few columns and pouring some kerosene in a building can take them down, why do professional demolition companies use explosives and careful timing to bring buildings down?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#205. To: Critter (#204)
PROVE IT, since you assume YOU have a working brain.
Anyone with a working brain who can think for themselves can see that there was more to those 3 collapses than just a few damaged columns and a fire.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#206. To: buckeroo (#205)
I know mine is working. I'm just wondering what stopped yours?
since you assume YOU have a working brain.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#207. To: Critter (#206)
In my case, I am still very capable of discerning the truth of physics and mathematics BEYOND political gullible assholes as GRIFFIN. At the top of thread, I have not just introduced the CONCEPT about this demolition theory but theoretical physics and mathematics in related links. (You have never seen this before) .... If you want to think of me as not having a brain, that is fine. But I am seriously tired of others not addressing the core issues such as Griffin's remarcks... and piles of people swallowing that asshole's perspective because they have no personal orientation or capability.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#208. To: buckeroo (#207)
I have been a hands on guy my whole life. I know how things work. I may not be formally educated in physics, but I understand what my eyes tell me. Promoters of the official conspiracy theory (fair tale) argue out one side of their mouths that it would take a team of hundreds working for weeks with tons of explosives to bring down those three buildings and out the other side of their mouths that a few cut columns and an office fire brought them down. Tell me why demolition companies don't do it the easy way, cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, come back in an hour and start hauling away debris? They won't even need a countdown. It doesn't get any easier than that, does it?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#209. To: Critter (#208)
On this thread ... help in explaining where the PROOF of CD or eyewitnesses are to any of the issues on 9/11. Hard evidence refuting mathematics and physics is required. [hint: just one witness on the inside planting, controlling or otherwise praying to Jesus on their own deathbed]
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#210. To: buckeroo (#209)
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility. Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#211. To: Critter (#210)
Why? Because I don't believe in BS conspiracy theories? Yes sir! Beats the shit out of me. Which ones brought down the WTC buildings on 9/11/2001.... After you make the factual claim, we might have something to go after other than BS, poppycock and innuendo.
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility.
Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#212. To: James Deffenbach (#195)
Well those master minds with box cutters were crafty enough to push that passport out the window. I bet they hopped out of the plane after impact with those back blowers ready to go...............
but I don't think I saw any people with backpack blowers on the videos I saw of the towers falling.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#213. To: buckeroo (#194)
Well, Buck, just goes to show that you know more about Mr. Griffin than I do. I like the work of physics professor Jones. Have you read his peer reviewed papers on this topic, nano thernmite, in particular?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#214. To: AGAviator (#197)
I have good gaydar and you are extremely obvious.......lol Egads, you're tracking my posting history? GET A F'ING LIFE PAL!!
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#215. To: abraxas (#214)
... Egads, you're tracking my posting history? I don't need to track them, imbecile. You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me, STD viruseater.
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#216. To: AGAviator (#215)
lol.....you keep track. Like I said.......GET A F'ING LIFE PAL. I would never waste a nano second taking a tally of your posts to me. You just aren't that significant, but, oh my, you have me down to the number five. Face it, that right there is the PATH to PATHETIC.
You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#217. To: abraxas, AGBloviator, AGAviator (#216)
If you keep this up poor widdle AGBloviator is gonna cry.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#218. To: buckeroo (#0)
Only a stooge or moron would say that. And only a stooge or moron would post this as if it made their side look right. It makes you look like complete and total idiots. Buck, I don't think you are a stooge, so that only leaves the moron option left. Sorry.
His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.
God is always good!
#219. To: abraxas (#216)
No I don't keep track, fuckwit. I do recognize when a scumsucker keeps repeating the same thing over and over.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#220. To: AGAviator, abraxas, christine (#219)
You should watch your language.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#221. To: wudidiz (#220)
I like the bozo filter, it lets me ban people that are not here for anything other than disinfo. I don't need to refute their disinfo, just show a video of the Towers coming down and then a picture of a real progressive collapse. The differences are astonishing. And of course the ace in the whole that makes these agents squirm, WTC7. Show it collapsing a lot, and they run away and hide fast. No one will dare touch that one.
You should watch your language.
God is always good!
#222. To: wudidiz (#220) (Edited)
People who address me in civil terms will have no problems with my responses. However none of you are going to get free passes when you make gratuitous insults, scatological remarks, and repeatedly engage in obscene talk for the benefit of fellow circle jerks, or cheer it on, because of inability to reply to the topic.
You should watch your language
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#223. To: RickyJ (#221)
You would think. Watch.
No one will dare touch that one.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#224. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, Turtle, RickyJ (#221)
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#225. To: AGAviator (#219)
lol......tad bit late to lie about your public disclosure of your tracking my posts. I mean, it was merely a few posts up on the thread when you opted to tell all of your tracking activities and the current count of my posts. Only a moron would lie about it NOW. But, hey, honesty isn't your thing. We all recognize your continual repetition of lies.
No I don't keep track, fuckwit.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#226. To: wudidiz (#224)
It wasn't gone though, just blew up. That's why the debris was treated as if it were gold. They were just going to sell it for scrap metal to China and others, but they wouldn't let the public look at it. No, people were threatened with arrest if they took pictures at ground zero. I don't like being lied to, and Jews, our government, and the main stream media do nothing but lie to us constantly.
God is always good!
#227. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#223)
Mark Loizeaux - President of Cont. Demolition IncThe largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#228. To: AGAviator (#227)
Do you know who Barry Jennings is, AGitprop ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#229. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#225)
No hydrocephalic, when you post the same old $hit to me throughout the day, and I state you repeat the same old $hit, that isn't "tracking" because tracking means I would need to go out and look for it. But as usual, you run out of energy to discuss the relevant topic which in this instance is 911 CT's, so you need to move to the personal stuff because you have never had any acceptable specific information about the 911 CT's. So you're going to keep up with your loser tactics, and I'm going to keep pointing that out with additional evidence to put the final nails in your coffin as I come across it.
public disclosure of your tracking my posts.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#230. To: AGitprop (#229)
Who is Barry Jennings ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#231. To: Rotara, AGAviator (#230)
Who is Barry Jennings ?
Name calling is juvenile.
#232. To: RickyJ (#227) (Edited)
To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle, critter Mark Loizeaux - President of Cont. Demolition Inc See what I mean? On 2010-07-19 02:13:48, AGAviator wrote:
The largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#233. To: AGAviator (#227)
I guess now they can just cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, go get lunch, come back and start loading up the debris, all in one short day.
The largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#234. To: Critter (#208)
Yeah, that's a good question. Surely they would have figured that out a long time ago (if it could be done that way that is). I think just about everyone here knows better than that $#it buck and his sidekick(s) are posting. I think buck even knows better.
Tell me why demolition companies don't do it the easy way, cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, come back in an hour and start hauling away debris? They won't even need a countdown. It doesn't get any easier than that, does it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
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