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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club* Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 24819
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#210. To: buckeroo (#209)
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility. Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#211. To: Critter (#210)
Why? Because I don't believe in BS conspiracy theories? Yes sir! Beats the shit out of me. Which ones brought down the WTC buildings on 9/11/2001.... After you make the factual claim, we might have something to go after other than BS, poppycock and innuendo.
Your post proves nothing except your gullibility.
Answer my question, why don't controlled demolition companies now just cut a few columns, douse the buildings in kerosene, go get lunch and come back to start loading debris?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#212. To: James Deffenbach (#195)
Well those master minds with box cutters were crafty enough to push that passport out the window. I bet they hopped out of the plane after impact with those back blowers ready to go...............
but I don't think I saw any people with backpack blowers on the videos I saw of the towers falling.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#213. To: buckeroo (#194)
Well, Buck, just goes to show that you know more about Mr. Griffin than I do. I like the work of physics professor Jones. Have you read his peer reviewed papers on this topic, nano thernmite, in particular?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#214. To: AGAviator (#197)
I have good gaydar and you are extremely obvious.......lol Egads, you're tracking my posting history? GET A F'ING LIFE PAL!!
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#215. To: abraxas (#214)
... Egads, you're tracking my posting history? I don't need to track them, imbecile. You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me, STD viruseater.
Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#216. To: AGAviator (#215)
lol.....you keep track. Like I said.......GET A F'ING LIFE PAL. I would never waste a nano second taking a tally of your posts to me. You just aren't that significant, but, oh my, you have me down to the number five. Face it, that right there is the PATH to PATHETIC.
You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#217. To: abraxas, AGBloviator, AGAviator (#216)
If you keep this up poor widdle AGBloviator is gonna cry.
"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator
#218. To: buckeroo (#0)
Only a stooge or moron would say that. And only a stooge or moron would post this as if it made their side look right. It makes you look like complete and total idiots. Buck, I don't think you are a stooge, so that only leaves the moron option left. Sorry.
His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.
God is always good!
#219. To: abraxas (#216)
No I don't keep track, fuckwit. I do recognize when a scumsucker keeps repeating the same thing over and over.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#220. To: AGAviator, abraxas, christine (#219)
You should watch your language.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#221. To: wudidiz (#220)
I like the bozo filter, it lets me ban people that are not here for anything other than disinfo. I don't need to refute their disinfo, just show a video of the Towers coming down and then a picture of a real progressive collapse. The differences are astonishing. And of course the ace in the whole that makes these agents squirm, WTC7. Show it collapsing a lot, and they run away and hide fast. No one will dare touch that one.
You should watch your language.
God is always good!
#222. To: wudidiz (#220) (Edited)
People who address me in civil terms will have no problems with my responses. However none of you are going to get free passes when you make gratuitous insults, scatological remarks, and repeatedly engage in obscene talk for the benefit of fellow circle jerks, or cheer it on, because of inability to reply to the topic.
You should watch your language
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#223. To: RickyJ (#221)
You would think. Watch.
No one will dare touch that one.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#224. To: AGAviator, buckeroo, Turtle, RickyJ (#221)
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#225. To: AGAviator (#219)
lol......tad bit late to lie about your public disclosure of your tracking my posts. I mean, it was merely a few posts up on the thread when you opted to tell all of your tracking activities and the current count of my posts. Only a moron would lie about it NOW. But, hey, honesty isn't your thing. We all recognize your continual repetition of lies.
No I don't keep track, fuckwit.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#226. To: wudidiz (#224)
It wasn't gone though, just blew up. That's why the debris was treated as if it were gold. They were just going to sell it for scrap metal to China and others, but they wouldn't let the public look at it. No, people were threatened with arrest if they took pictures at ground zero. I don't like being lied to, and Jews, our government, and the main stream media do nothing but lie to us constantly.
God is always good!
#227. To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle, critter (#223)
Mark Loizeaux - President of Cont. Demolition IncThe largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#228. To: AGAviator (#227)
Do you know who Barry Jennings is, AGitprop ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#229. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#225)
No hydrocephalic, when you post the same old $hit to me throughout the day, and I state you repeat the same old $hit, that isn't "tracking" because tracking means I would need to go out and look for it. But as usual, you run out of energy to discuss the relevant topic which in this instance is 911 CT's, so you need to move to the personal stuff because you have never had any acceptable specific information about the 911 CT's. So you're going to keep up with your loser tactics, and I'm going to keep pointing that out with additional evidence to put the final nails in your coffin as I come across it.
public disclosure of your tracking my posts.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#230. To: AGitprop (#229)
Who is Barry Jennings ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#231. To: Rotara, AGAviator (#230)
Who is Barry Jennings ?
Name calling is juvenile.
#232. To: RickyJ (#227) (Edited)
To: wudidiz, buckeroo, turtle, critter Mark Loizeaux - President of Cont. Demolition Inc See what I mean? On 2010-07-19 02:13:48, AGAviator wrote:
The largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
"So, now I am a liar, a lamebrain and a dimwit." -- buckeroo, circa 2010-07-16 20:04:00 ET
#233. To: AGAviator (#227)
I guess now they can just cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, go get lunch, come back and start loading up the debris, all in one short day.
The largest structure which we've taken down...the Hudson building...It took months to prepare the structures.
Waiting too late to oppose tyranny has always led to bloodshed.
Hair Extensions Five Towns Merrick Manhasset Roslyn Massapequa Amityville Wantagh Farmingdale East Meadow Long Island, NY
#234. To: Critter (#208)
Yeah, that's a good question. Surely they would have figured that out a long time ago (if it could be done that way that is). I think just about everyone here knows better than that $#it buck and his sidekick(s) are posting. I think buck even knows better.
Tell me why demolition companies don't do it the easy way, cut a few columns, douse the building in kerosene, come back in an hour and start hauling away debris? They won't even need a countdown. It doesn't get any easier than that, does it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#235. To: abraxas (#212)
Yeah, and some more of their homeboys kept the invisibility ray on them so no one could see them.
Well those master minds with box cutters were crafty enough to push that passport out the window. I bet they hopped out of the plane after impact with those back blowers ready to go...............
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#236. To: AGAviator (#219)
So you recognize what you're doing then, right fuckwit?
I do recognize when a scumsucker keeps repeating the same thing over and over.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#237. To: buckeroo (#0)
This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. Actually a free fall from the 110th floor would have taken 9.22 seconds. Wow, the towers fell FASTER than free falling objects, like being sucked into a huge vacuum cleaner. Amazing.
His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#238. To: FormerLurker (#236)
Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.
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One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#239. To: AGAviator (#238)
Just thought I'd reciprocate the pleasantries you've so generously sprinkled on this forum.
Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#240. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#238)
lol.......the point is to keep track of Abraxas' posts around here, right? What's the tally at today?
Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#241. To: AGAviator (#229)
So you're going to keep up Egads, now you are tracking my energy usage? And YOU are making plans for how I am going to keep up.........like I said, get a f'ing life pal. I can take care of my own energy tracking and my own plans for "keeping up" with the AGAblowviators.......lol. Final nails in my coffin? HAHAHAHA Dream big AGAblowviator. I won't fret to much about an Internet BLOW HARD who wouldn't know how to hammer a nail if his life depended on it. But I will sing a little song for you--If AG had a hammer, he'd hammer in the mornin'.
But as usual, you run out of energy
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#242. To: abraxas (#241)
lol AGitprop doesn't want to talk about Barry Jennings either. None of them do...
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#243. To: abraxas (#241)
Poor AGAviator, his only friend around here is buck, and can't get the backup he's used to getting from his home nest...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#244. To: Rotara (#242)
Well, Rotara, not to toot my own horn but I'm just so darn fascinating, tracking my posts here at 4um is much more signigicant than folks like Barry Jennings who throw a wrench in the official fairy tale that AGAblowviator gets paid for defending. lol
AGitprop doesn't want to talk about Barry Jennings either.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#245. To: FormerLurker (#243)
Well, he could always fly home. : )
can't get the backup he's used to getting from his home nest...
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
#246. To: FormerLurker (#237)
Show me your calculation and/or source material.
Actually a free fall from the 110th floor would have taken 9.22 seconds.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#247. To: buckeroo (#246)
Oh man, are you REALLY that stupid? Besides it being stated in virtually every report that exists in terms of free fall comparisons, here's the basic physics, which you apparently never learned in school. You can look up the formula, it's t = SQRT(2d/g) t = time, d = distance, g = acceleration due to gravity (32.2 feet per second/second) The roof heights of the WTC towers were 1368 ft for WTC1, 1362 feet for WTC2. Acceleration due to gravity is (32.17 feet per second)/second For WTC1; t = SQRT(2*1368/32.17) = 9.222 seconds For WTC2; t = SQRT(2*1362/32.17) = 9.202 seconds So there you go buck, try looking things up yourself next time before you make a fool of yourself.
Show me your calculation and/or source material.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#248. To: buckeroo (#246)
Oh and BTW buck, those equations don't take into consideration air resistance, so free fall from that height would have taken a bit longer, depending on the aerodynamics of the object.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#249. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#247)
Why do you think that your height measurement for the "top" of each of the WTC towers is correct? The towers were hit on the 96th and 81st floors, this means that "free fall" time values were 8.61 and 7.91 seconds respectively because this is the location of initial forces (de plane! de plane!) that buckled the upper floors. So, you are incorrect by throwing your silly brick off the 110th floor... for a publick demonstration of your astounding assumptions to thwart otherwise serious study and investigation into and about a tragic issue. This notion of "free fall" has always been used by the TWOOFERS and it is an incorrect assumption for the top of either of the building for the calculation; it is utter nonsense.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
#250. To: FormerLurker (#248)
?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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