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Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source:
BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club* Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 18019
Comments: 1209
An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks. The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total. One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition". The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell. Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York. After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001. This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking"). Resistance to collapse Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics. Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures. Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts. "The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website. Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse. His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down. This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground. 'Fair assumption' The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell". "One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen. The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings. The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center. This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers. Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble. Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse. Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design.
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#239. To: AGAviator (#238)
Just thought I'd reciprocate the pleasantries you've so generously sprinkled on this forum.
lol.......the point is to keep track of Abraxas' posts around here, right? What's the tally at today?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So you're going to keep up Egads, now you are tracking my energy usage? And YOU are making plans for how I am going to keep up.........like I said, get a f'ing life pal. I can take care of my own energy tracking and my own plans for "keeping up" with the AGAblowviators.......lol. Final nails in my coffin? HAHAHAHA Dream big AGAblowviator. I won't fret to much about an Internet BLOW HARD who wouldn't know how to hammer a nail if his life depended on it. But I will sing a little song for you--If AG had a hammer, he'd hammer in the mornin'.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
lol AGitprop doesn't want to talk about Barry Jennings either. None of them do...
Poor AGAviator, his only friend around here is buck, and can't get the backup he's used to getting from his home nest...
Well, Rotara, not to toot my own horn but I'm just so darn fascinating, tracking my posts here at 4um is much more signigicant than folks like Barry Jennings who throw a wrench in the official fairy tale that AGAblowviator gets paid for defending. lol
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Well, he could always fly home. : )
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Show me your calculation and/or source material.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Oh man, are you REALLY that stupid? Besides it being stated in virtually every report that exists in terms of free fall comparisons, here's the basic physics, which you apparently never learned in school. You can look up the formula, it's t = SQRT(2d/g) t = time, d = distance, g = acceleration due to gravity (32.2 feet per second/second) The roof heights of the WTC towers were 1368 ft for WTC1, 1362 feet for WTC2. Acceleration due to gravity is (32.17 feet per second)/second For WTC1; t = SQRT(2*1368/32.17) = 9.222 seconds For WTC2; t = SQRT(2*1362/32.17) = 9.202 seconds So there you go buck, try looking things up yourself next time before you make a fool of yourself.
Oh and BTW buck, those equations don't take into consideration air resistance, so free fall from that height would have taken a bit longer, depending on the aerodynamics of the object.
Why do you think that your height measurement for the "top" of each of the WTC towers is correct? The towers were hit on the 96th and 81st floors, this means that "free fall" time values were 8.61 and 7.91 seconds respectively because this is the location of initial forces (de plane! de plane!) that buckled the upper floors. So, you are incorrect by throwing your silly brick off the 110th floor... for a publick demonstration of your astounding assumptions to thwart otherwise serious study and investigation into and about a tragic issue. This notion of "free fall" has always been used by the TWOOFERS and it is an incorrect assumption for the top of either of the building for the calculation; it is utter nonsense.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Just thought I'd reciprocate the pleasantries you've so generously sprinkled on this forum. As much as a sewageswilling anaerobe like yourself wishes to shift discussions from issues, and their evidence, to throwing stinkbombs - which you're just as deficient in as any other pursuit - it ain't gonna happen. Just as a partial list, you've been provided explicit proofs of the following phenomena and many others. Which you try to evade by going to your speaking from the toilet about gaysex instead of the facts and their evidence. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hahahahhaa. More back pedaling after they themselves use 9.22 seconds as evidenced on Rosie's video clip. Where she's obviously parroting something she doesn't understand the least from a CT website.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have noticed that the nasty, vindictive and silly posts have stopped. Yet, not one post to show or otherwise prove that CD was used other than some witnesses suggesting they heard "blasts" .. yet, not one post to refute the thread title. AG, we won another thread dispelling the TWOOFERS whom simply recycle regurgitated, fabricated and pseudo-scientific considerations.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
In other words, the equations show how long it would take for an object to all through an ideal medium, ie. a vacuum with no air. With air resistance, the time increases. If you drop a spherical rock the delay is minimal, whereas if you drop a section of wood or sheet metal the time increases due to the air resistance encountered during the fall. Bottom line is, the SHORTEST possible time for free fall from the top of the WTC was 9.202 seconds for WTC2, 9.222 seconds for WTC1. Actual times would be somewhat greater due to air resistance, depending on the shape of the object falling.
The towers were hit on the 96th and 81st floors, this means that "free fall" time values were 8.61 and 7.91 seconds respectively because this is the location of initial forces (de plane! de plane!) that buckled the upper floors. Oh, so you're saying the TOPS OF THE BUILDING JUST VANISHED INTO NOTHING? Man you people are really something. (Well you would be PARTIALLY correct in that they DID turn into dust). The TOPS of the building ALSO HAD TO FALL, and it is THAT we are talking about, for the top of the building to come to rest, not skipping the part of the collapse that had to occur PRIOR to the BOTTOM structure collapsing.
Rosie is obviously brighter than you. You don't judge collapse time for only PART of the building collapsing, you INCLUDE the ENTIRE building from the very top. Do they give you stupid pills on your job?
That is a theoretical calculation not taking into account the facts; the facts categorically prove that you are WRONG by assuming the 110th floor. The moment of impact was on not the top floors but sandwiched underneath..... and the actual time took 65.5% and 47.3% longer than those of a free fall of the upper part of each tower. What does this mean? That the internal resistive effects of the lower floors resisted the "crush down" phase of the collapse. Where are the CDs?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Can you explain that particular pulverizing phenomena?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Says who, you? How much energy do you think the building absorbed during a hurricane, just a couple of Joules? Besides that moron, most of the energy was spent ripping the aircraft to shreds, not in "causing the tower to sway".
You're the people bantering around the "9.22 seconds," "physical impossibility" phrases. You've had over 8 years and still can't come up with coherent, supportable, verifiable versions of events. Take another few years to get your stories straight. It's not like anybody will be holding their breaths.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Maybe your fellow shyster can explain it to you. Most rational people understand that EXPLOSIVES are more than likely to blame, or some other form of weapon. The pulverization is obvious if you watch the collapse videos, where there would NOT have been enough solid mass to "pancake" the floors, since there WERE no floors left of the upper structure.
The buckling occurred at the moment of tremendous horizontal force below the top of the building.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Yep, the building SHOULD NOT HAVE collapsed as if it were falling through a vacuum, yet buck's expert "calculated" precisely that. Do you and he subscribe to "Junk Science Monthly"? Or do you just make this shit up as you go?
Not really, but it's not even relavant in terms of how long it would take for the top of the building to hit the ground.
So you're saying a UFO stole the top of both towers?
Wow, you really believe it'd take the same or LESS time for the top to hit the ground than the lower floors should have, eh?
Aircraft or any other structures are not designed to rip themselves to shreds. They need external agents to disintegrate themselves, and either those external agents supply energy on their own as in crushing machines - false, or they absorb kinetic energy from objects crashing into them. The structures obviously had to absorb the kinetic energy first in order for them to have any effect on the aircraft.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But no known acoustic energy of tremendous quantities occurred until the final floors collapsed. Here is a diagram that shows it: If we had EXPLOSIONS ... those would have been recorded throughout and/or prior actual the collapse.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Well no, but if they are going around 500 mph and hit solid steel columns, guess what happens. They ARE mostly just a hollow tube of sheets of aluminum, in case you didn't know. Are you that stupid that you think planes come out of plane crashes totally undamaged? Ok, if you believe that, then where's the undamaged airplane that hit the Pentagon, eh?
C'mon.... the lower floors (96 and 81 because the moment of horizontal impact) fell FIRST as the weight of the upper floors buckled under the upper floors.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
So even though there were TRILLIONS of JOULES of energy being absorbed into the ground during the collapse, there was no seismic record of that till the last few floors hit, ok then, so it would have been impossible to detect explosives.
So what? The top STILL HAD TO FALL, and you don't judge how long the top of the building took to fall from the fall of the lower floors, you judge it from how long IT took to fall.
Of course... but that is not where you measure free fall for this tragedy.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Show some of the seismic records that day..... you research it. It collaborates my point that demolitions were not used.
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Did you ever graduate grade school?
You're the one that posted there was no seismic record of the collapse, except for the last few floors. Live with it, you posted it.
As I've already stated, the faster an object is moving, the more ability it has to penetrate, damage, and destroy other objects that are harder than it is. Examples: Melted lead bullets penetrating solid metal targets, hurricane driven straws and pieces of debris penetrating trees, bird strikes going through aircraft windshields, tens of thousands more where a softer object hitting a harder object nevertheless inflicts some major destruction.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In fact here is a pdf file about the seismic records from columbia university: www.ldeo.columbia.edu/LCS...0911_WTC/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf .... look it over ..... where are the explosions?
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
Especially under acceleration ... as a falling building......
"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestStay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#240. To: AGAviator, FormerLurker (#238)
Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.
#241. To: AGAviator (#229)
But as usual, you run out of energy
#242. To: abraxas (#241)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#243. To: abraxas (#241)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#244. To: Rotara (#242)
AGitprop doesn't want to talk about Barry Jennings either.
#245. To: FormerLurker (#243)
can't get the backup he's used to getting from his home nest...
#246. To: FormerLurker (#237)
Actually a free fall from the 110th floor would have taken 9.22 seconds.
#247. To: buckeroo (#246)
Show me your calculation and/or source material.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#248. To: buckeroo (#246)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#249. To: FormerLurker, AGAviator (#247)
#250. To: FormerLurker (#248)
#251. To: CurrentJerker, buckeroo, turtle (#239)
(Edited)
(1) Two aircraft crashes released gigajoules of kinetic energy into the Twin Tower structures, and within 2 hours both structures collapsed from structural damage,
That's just a partial list of the issues about which you and your fellow circlejerks have been batted on from one end of the forum to another. There are plenty of others. So your attempts to evade and make things personal is noted, as well as noted as being unsuccessful.
(2) A fireman is recorded on video saying a third WTC Building, WTC7, will be going down because the building is losing its structural stability from crash damage and uncontrolled fires,
(3) Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
(4) The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie, as there is no evidence about any cabin door operation of that aircraft either during or before the September 11 flight,
(5) The lauded "peer review publication" of Tw00ferk00ks Steven Jones and Niels Harrit have been shown to be pay-to- publish articles for which $800 was given to a Dhubai publishing mill, with zero other peer reviewed articles
(6) The phrase "pull" as used by the demolition industry means "pull down with cables," and as used by firefighters means "pull back from site,"
(7) Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
(8) It's a physical impossibliity for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint and
(9) The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#252. To: buckeroo (#249)
This notion of "free fall" has always been used by the TWOOFERS and it is an incorrect assumption for the top of either of the building for the calculation; it is utter nonsense.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#253. To: AGAviator (#252)
#254. To: buckeroo (#250)
?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#255. To: buckeroo (#249)
Why do you think that your height measurement for the "top" of each of the WTC towers is correct?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#256. To: AGAviator (#252)
More back pedaling after they themselves use 9.22 seconds as evidenced on Rosie's video clip.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#257. To: FormerLurker (#254)
Bottom line is, the SHORTEST possible time for free fall from the top of the WTC was 9.202 seconds for WTC2, 9.222 seconds for WTC1.
#258. To: FormerLurker (#255)
(Well you would be PARTIALLY correct in that they DID turn into dust).
#259. To: AGovShill (#251)
It's a physical impossibliity for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint and
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#260. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, turtle (#256)
You don't judge collapse time for only PART of the building collapsing, you INCLUDE the ENTIRE building from the very top.
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#261. To: buckeroo (#258)
Can you explain that particular pulverizing phenomena?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#262. To: FormerLurker (#256)
You don't judge collapse time for only PART of the building collapsing, you INCLUDE the ENTIRE building from the very top.
#263. To: AGAviator, buckeroo (#260)
You're the people bantering around the "9.22 seconds," "physical impossibility" phrases.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#264. To: buckeroo (#262)
The buckling occurred at the moment of tremendous horizontal force below the top of the building.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#265. To: buckeroo (#257)
(Edited)
That is a theoretical calculation not taking into account the facts; the facts categorically prove that you are WRONG by assuming the 110th floor.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#266. To: buckeroo (#257)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#267. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#259)
Besides that moron, most of the energy was spent ripping the aircraft to shreds, not in "causing the tower to sway".
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#268. To: FormerLurker (#261)
Most rational people understand that EXPLOSIVES are more than likely to blame, or some other form of weapon.
#269. To: AGAviator (#267)
Aircraft or any other structures are not designed to rip themselves to shreds.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#270. To: FormerLurker (#265)
So you're saying a UFO stole the top of both towers?
#271. To: buckeroo (#268)
But no known acoustic energy of tremendous quantities occurred until the final floors collapsed. Here is a diagram that shows it:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#272. To: buckeroo (#270)
C'mon.... the lower floors (96 and 81 because the moment of horizontal impact) fell FIRST as the weight of the upper floors buckled under the upper floors.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#273. To: FormerLurker (#272)
The top STILL HAD TO FALL
#274. To: FormerLurker (#271)
#275. To: buckeroo (#273)
Of course... but that is not where you measure free fall for this tragedy.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#276. To: buckeroo (#274)
Show some of the seismic records that day.....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#277. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#269)
Well no, but if they are going around 500 mph and hit solid steel columns, guess what happens
One of the major consequences of the 9/11 movement has been to draw enormous amounts of energy and effort away from activism directed to real and ongoing crimes of state, and their institutional background, crimes that are far more serious than blowing up the WTC would be, if there were any credibility to that thesis. That is, I suspect, why the 9/11 movement is treated far more tolerantly by centers of power than is the norm for serious critical and activist work....Noam Chomsky
#278. To: FormerLurker (#271)
#279. To: AGAviator (#277)
As I've already stated, the faster an object is moving, the more ability it has to penetrate, damage, and destroy other objects that are harder than it is.
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