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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 demolition theory challenged
Source: BBC
URL Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6987965.stm
Published: Sep 11, 2007
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-07-17 17:31:29 by buckeroo
Ping List: *4um PSY-OP Club*     Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*
Keywords: None
Views: 19447
Comments: 1209

An analysis of the World Trade Center collapse has challenged a conspiracy theory surrounding the 9/11 attacks.

The study by a Cambridge University engineer demonstrates that once the collapse of the twin towers began, it was destined to be rapid and total.

One of many conspiracy theories proposes that the buildings came down in a manner consistent with a "controlled demolition".

The study suggests a different explanation for how the towers fell.

Over 2,800 people were killed in the devastating attacks on New York.

After reviewing television footage of the Trade Center's destruction, engineers had proposed the idea of "progressive collapse" to explain the way the twin towers disintegrated on 11 September 2001.

This mode of structural failure describes the way the building fell straight down rather than toppling, with each successive floor crushing the one beneath (an effect called "pancaking").

Resistance to collapse

Dr Keith Seffen set out to test mathematically whether this chain reaction really could explain what happened in Lower Manhattan six years ago. The findings are to be published in the Journal of Engineering Mechanics.

Previous studies have tended to focus on the initial stages of collapse, showing that there was an initial, localised failure around the aircraft impact zones, and that this probably led to the progressive collapse of both structures.

Man stands amid rubble of the World Trade Center, AFP/Getty Once the collapse began, it was destined to be "rapid and total" In other words, the damaged parts of the tower were bound to fall down, but it was not clear why the undamaged building should have offered little resistance to these falling parts.

"The initiation part has been quantified by many people; but no one had put numbers on the progressive collapse," Dr Seffen told the BBC News website.

Dr Seffen was able to calculate the "residual capacity" of the undamaged building: that is, simply speaking, the ability of the undamaged structure to resist or comply with collapse.

His calculations suggest the residual capacity of the north and south towers was limited, and that once the collapse was set in motion, it would take only nine seconds for the building to go down.

This is just a little longer than a free-falling coin, dropped from the top of either tower, would take to reach the ground.

'Fair assumption'

The University of Cambridge engineer said his results therefore suggested progressive collapse was "a fair assumption in terms of how the building fell".

"One thing that confounded engineers was how falling parts of the structure ploughed through undamaged building beneath and brought the towers down so quickly," said Dr Seffen.

The south tower of the World Trade Center collapses, AP Conspiracy theorists see evidence of a "controlled detonation" He added that his calculations showed this was a "very ordinary thing to happen" and that no other intervention, such as explosive charges laid inside the building, was needed to explain the behaviour of the buildings.

The controlled detonation idea, espoused on several internet websites, asserts that the manner of collapse is consistent with synchronised rows of explosives going off inside the World Trade Center.

This would have generated a demolition wave that explained the speed, uniformity and similarity between the collapses of both towers.

Conspiracy theorists assert that these explosive "squibs" can actually be seen going off in photos and video footage of the collapse. These appear as ejections of gas and debris from the sides of the building, well below the descending rubble.

Other observers say this could be explained by debris falling down lift shafts and impacting on lower floors during the collapse.

Dr Seffen's research could help inform future building design. Subscribe to *4um PSY-OP Club*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 302.

#5. To: buckeroo, All (#0)

Who is Barry Jennings ?

'Pull it !' by Larry Silverstein and the WTC 7 singers

Rotara  posted on  2010-07-17   18:00:17 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Rotara, buckeroo, turtle (#5) (Edited)

'Pull it !' by Larry Silverstein and the WTC 7 singers

In the demolition industry, "pull" a building means "pull down with cables," not "explode with explosives."

Silverstein of course, in his phone con with Fire Chief Daniel Nigro, uses "pull" to mean "pull the firefighters back because we've already had a terrible loss of life"

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-17   19:20:55 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: AGAviator (#25)

I slip in with a very quick debunk on this one...

The insurmountable problem with this explanation of Silverstein’s statement is that there were no firefighters inside WTC 7. Dr. Shyam Sunder, of the National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST), which investigated the collapse of WTC 7, is quoted in Popular Mechanics (9/11: Debunking the Myths, March, 2005) as saying: “There was no firefighting in WTC 7”. The FEMA report on the collapses, from May, 2002, also says about the WTC 7 collapse: “no manual firefighting operations were taken by FDNY”. And an article by James Glanz in the New York Times on November 29, 2001 says about WTC 7: “By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons.”

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/wtc7/archive/nytimes_112901.html

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-17   19:26:31 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#26)

"Keep your eye on that building. It'll be coming down...The structural integrity is not there."

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-17   20:04:05 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: AGAviator (#34)

Er, are you simply going to ignore the EXPLOSIONS heard clearly in your own vids? You know, the kind of explosions that occur in controlled demolition right before the buildings fall down.........

Aren't you going to respond to the fact that ol' Larry Silverstein couldn't have meant "pull fire fighters" when there were no fire fighters in the building according to multiple government sources?

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-17   20:08:00 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#37)

Er, are you simply going to ignore the EXPLOSIONS heard clearly in your own vids?

Not everything that makes a noise is an ***explosion.***

"Explosions" start out by hurling objects in all directions - including upwards - at hundreds to thousands of miles per hour in a huge initial blast cloud, which gets smaller as time goes on.

Events which start with clouds that get bigger, and eject items only sideways or down at less than free fall speeds, don't fall into that category.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-17   22:35:02 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: AGAviator (#61)

Do you mean such as blowing all the windows out on the sub floors of the WTC buildings?

Like these eye witnesses report at this link: www.youtube.com/watch? v=Jcg8hMEmTVE&feature=related

People thought the subway exploded. The janitor saved peoples' lives from these explosions. Are you saying you know more than all of these people who were right there and heard these explosions, saw fireballs emerging from the elevator lobby, watched glass blow out all over the place? People burned ON THE SUBFLOORS with their skin hanging off......tell them it wasn't an explosion coming from the basement.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-17   22:44:57 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle, ccritter (#63)

Do you mean such as blowing all the windows out on the sub floors of the WTC buildings?

Show me some blast clouds sending things upwards, not just sideways and downward, at hundreds of MPH initial velocities, not just at speeds not even equalling sideways and downward speeds from gravity.

Then show me those blast clouds starting out big, and themselves expanding in all directions at hundreds of MPH, not clouds barely getting big as fast as dust- driven clouds expand.

Those scenarios would be explosions. Events falling short of these factors are not.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   1:09:39 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: AGAviator (#116)

Did you watch that video? The explosions were in the SUB FLOORS.

Why don't you watch it and explain to me how the eye witnesses are wrong and you are right.

They even talk about those dastardly blast clouds........burning their flesh and blowing them many feet away from where they were prior to the f'n explosions.

Shit, if you can't even watch the f'n video where the eye witnesses will tell you exactly what you are asking of me, then you are hopeless and you really don't want any answers to the questions you pose.

The witnesses clearly articulate AN EXPLOSION.......watch for yourself or shut your pie hole.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   1:14:15 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle, Original_Indent (#117)

Why don't you watch it and explain to me how the eye witnesses are wrong and you are right.

Your eyewitnesses link what they call "explosions" and "fireballs" with an airplane hitting the WTC at that exact same moment in time.

With the damage going through the building core. And branching out at various elevator and stairwell locations.

So you wanna say the eyewitnesses are right? Fine with me. The eyewitnesses say the blasts they're commenting on are the direct results of the airplane crash. Other than that, they have more unanswered comments, where they express not knowing what caused what they experienced, than they have observations or answers.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   2:21:13 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: AGAviator (#126)

It is extremely dishonest to ignore the multiple witnesses who said very clearly that the explosions were on the SUB FLOORS of the building. You ignore the janitor who saved peoples' lives and was an eye witness to explosions in the parking garages and where the generators were kept.

How can you simply lie like that on a public forum? As if others won't notice that your are blatantly dishonest. What a dork!!

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   2:48:06 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: abraxas (#127)

It is extremely dishonest to ignore the multiple witnesses who said very clearly that the explosions were on the SUB FLOORS of the building

It is extremely dishonest to say that the eyewitnesses in your own video directly link whatever they call explosions with an aircraft crashing into the building and having the results of that crash go down through the core column, the elevator shafts, and the stairwells.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   11:48:10 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: AGAviator (#136)

They discuss explosions at the time of initial plane impact and prior to the buildings collapsing........you are the only one cherry picking content to fit your story telling.

The explosions prior to the collapse, with people running away and describing said explosions are completely ignored by you because they don't fit with the story you are trying to pawn off on the lot of us.

The information I presented discusses multiple explosions at various times, you are the only one opting to cling to one explosion and ignore all the others. Very dishonest......and you know it.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   12:09:14 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: abraxas, buckeroo, (#138)

They discuss explosions at the time of initial plane impact and prior to the buildings collapsing........you are the only one cherry picking content to fit your story telling.

There were no explosions reported prior to aircraft impacts. Not on your posted, not on anybody else's other statements anywhere.

So now you have two sets of phenomena to explain, (1) Why explosions reported immediately after the aircraft crashes are not caused by the aircraft crashes, and (2) Why and how the explosions reported immediately after the aircraft crashes did take place with methods and means not at all connected to those crashes.

These explanations have not been done over the last 8 1/2 years in spite of thousands of claims made on hundreds or thousands of internet sites. Yet the people pushing these claims still claim after all this time that they are the ones with the truth and anybody who challenges their unproven versions of events is on the side of their imagined enemy, an all-powerful government that can't even manage its own wars and administration but nevertheless has been able to flawlessly pull off the most complex conspiracy in world history.

Now that's what's dishonest.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   12:54:27 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: AGAviator (#142)

I'm not interested in your dishonesty about the contents of the video. I know what the WITNESSES stated.......only you think you know more about what they witnessed despite being far, far away.

There has always been this unexplained EXPLOSION phenomenon, since 9-11-2001. However,the government story you cling to with ALL YOUR MIGHT ignores these people, especially that janitor at the end of the video who saved peoples' lives from the EXPLOSIONS in the sub floor areas prior to collapse.

YOU, nowhere near the buildings (kissing government ass in another state I suspect), claim that YOU know more about these explosions that frickin' EYE WITNESSES and people who WORKED in the buildings and people who SAVED LIVES on that day. YOU and the government can IGNORE them, but that only discredits your official bullshit story more.

You run along and tell these people who were there that they are full of shit and only YOU know the truth of the matter. I know, not only are you a liar but you are also a coward who wouldn't say word one to them if you had them front and center, but it's real easy to talk shit about what they witnessed from such a distance.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   15:53:33 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: abraxas, buckeroo, turtle (#146) (Edited)

YOU, nowhere near the buildings (kissing government ass in another state I suspect), claim that YOU know more about these explosions that frickin' EYE WITNESSES and people who WORKED in the buildings and people who SAVED LIVES on that day. YOU and the government can IGNORE them, but that only discredits your official bullshit story more.

What a delusional flockwit you are, to claim that people present at the crashes don't say that airplanes crashed into the buildings and aircraft collision caused their subsequent collapse.

Name EYE WITNESSES who SAVED LIVES who don't claim that AIRCRAFT CRASHES caused the Twin Towers to come down.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   17:43:27 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#170. To: AGAviator, buckaroo (#166)

The janitor in the main tower discusses the explosions. We were discussing the EXPLOSIONS........

Nobody was talking about the airplanes crashing into the buildings, other than you in an attempt to divert, distract and blow smoke up Buck's ass and wait naked and giggling like a school girl for him to return the favor. Buck just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view. What's next a blow job for Buckie on this thread--you sure are on your knees enough for that to be the next logical progression in your relationship with Buck.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   18:03:28 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: abraxas, buckeroo, critter, turtle (#170) (Edited)

just loves to have your nose deep between his butt cheeks and you love the view

You've devoted infinitely more words and posts to gaysex remarks about buck than I ever have, because I've made zero, little STD-infected worm.

Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day - to the subject shows the problem begins and ends within your panting, slobbering, degenerate, pathetic little excuse for a brain.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   21:15:15 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: AGAviator (#197)

Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day

I have good gaydar and you are extremely obvious.......lol

Egads, you're tracking my posting history? GET A F'ING LIFE PAL!!

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-18   23:35:29 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#215. To: abraxas (#214)

Your little sick and frequent returnings - minimum 5+ times a day

...

Egads, you're tracking my posting history?

I don't need to track them, imbecile.

You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me, STD viruseater.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-18   23:56:29 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#216. To: AGAviator (#215)

You put at least 5 of your projections on your daily posts to me

lol.....you keep track. Like I said.......GET A F'ING LIFE PAL.

I would never waste a nano second taking a tally of your posts to me. You just aren't that significant, but, oh my, you have me down to the number five. Face it, that right there is the PATH to PATHETIC.

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-19   0:00:23 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#219. To: abraxas (#216)

No I don't keep track, fuckwit.

I do recognize when a scumsucker keeps repeating the same thing over and over.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   0:21:21 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#236. To: AGAviator (#219)

I do recognize when a scumsucker keeps repeating the same thing over and over.

So you recognize what you're doing then, right fuckwit?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   7:55:56 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#238. To: FormerLurker (#236)

Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   10:39:49 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#239. To: AGAviator (#238)

Stay on point, if you can remember what the point is, fuckwit.

Just thought I'd reciprocate the pleasantries you've so generously sprinkled on this forum.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   10:51:55 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#251. To: CurrentJerker, buckeroo, turtle (#239) (Edited)

Just thought I'd reciprocate the pleasantries you've so generously sprinkled on this forum.

As much as a sewageswilling anaerobe like yourself wishes to shift discussions from issues, and their evidence, to throwing stinkbombs - which you're just as deficient in as any other pursuit - it ain't gonna happen.

Just as a partial list, you've been provided explicit proofs of the following phenomena and many others. Which you try to evade by going to your speaking from the toilet about gaysex instead of the facts and their evidence.

(1) Two aircraft crashes released gigajoules of kinetic energy into the Twin Tower structures, and within 2 hours both structures collapsed from structural damage,
(2) A fireman is recorded on video saying a third WTC Building, WTC7, will be going down because the building is losing its structural stability from crash damage and uncontrolled fires,
(3) Over 30 calls from hijacked aircraft were logged including several by flight attendants giving seat numbers and descriptions of hijackers,
(4) The false statement that Flight 77's cabin door was not opened has been demonstrated to be a lie, as there is no evidence about any cabin door operation of that aircraft either during or before the September 11 flight,
(5) The lauded "peer review publication" of Tw00ferk00ks Steven Jones and Niels Harrit have been shown to be pay-to- publish articles for which $800 was given to a Dhubai publishing mill, with zero other peer reviewed articles
(6) The phrase "pull" as used by the demolition industry means "pull down with cables," and as used by firefighters means "pull back from site,"
(7) Flight 77 impacted a recently-renovated portion of the Pentagon which was not fully occupied and still had construction equipment in place, and
(8) It's a physical impossibliity for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint and
(9) The actual free fall times of the WTC towers have been conclusively shown as 15+ seconds for 1 tower and 22+ seconds for the other, an order of magnitude above the claimed "free fall time" of 9.22 seconds which is supposed to be evidence of a controlled demolition

That's just a partial list of the issues about which you and your fellow circlejerks have been batted on from one end of the forum to another. There are plenty of others. So your attempts to evade and make things personal is noted, as well as noted as being unsuccessful.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   15:38:35 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#259. To: AGovShill (#251)

It's a physical impossibliity for a structure to both be flexible enough to absorb gigajoules of energy, move away from vertical centerline, return to vertical centerline on its own, then be rigid enough to provide a fixed platform for a rotating and falling top section to collapse outside the building footprint and

Says who, you? How much energy do you think the building absorbed during a hurricane, just a couple of Joules?

Besides that moron, most of the energy was spent ripping the aircraft to shreds, not in "causing the tower to sway".

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   16:21:57 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#267. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#259)

Besides that moron, most of the energy was spent ripping the aircraft to shreds, not in "causing the tower to sway".

Aircraft or any other structures are not designed to rip themselves to shreds.

They need external agents to disintegrate themselves, and either those external agents supply energy on their own as in crushing machines - false, or they absorb kinetic energy from objects crashing into them.

The structures obviously had to absorb the kinetic energy first in order for them to have any effect on the aircraft.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   16:31:36 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#269. To: AGAviator (#267)

Aircraft or any other structures are not designed to rip themselves to shreds.

Well no, but if they are going around 500 mph and hit solid steel columns, guess what happens. They ARE mostly just a hollow tube of sheets of aluminum, in case you didn't know.

Are you that stupid that you think planes come out of plane crashes totally undamaged? Ok, if you believe that, then where's the undamaged airplane that hit the Pentagon, eh?

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   16:35:08 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#277. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo (#269)

Well no, but if they are going around 500 mph and hit solid steel columns, guess what happens

As I've already stated, the faster an object is moving, the more ability it has to penetrate, damage, and destroy other objects that are harder than it is.

Examples: Melted lead bullets penetrating solid metal targets, hurricane driven straws and pieces of debris penetrating trees, bird strikes going through aircraft windshields, tens of thousands more where a softer object hitting a harder object nevertheless inflicts some major destruction.

AGAviator  posted on  2010-07-19   16:51:27 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#279. To: AGAviator (#277)

As I've already stated, the faster an object is moving, the more ability it has to penetrate, damage, and destroy other objects that are harder than it is.

Especially under acceleration ... as a falling building......

buckeroo  posted on  2010-07-19   16:53:02 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#290. To: buckeroo, AGAvaiator (#279)

As I've already stated, the faster an object is moving, the more ability it has to penetrate, damage, and destroy other objects that are harder than it is. Especially under acceleration ... as a falling building......

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You two are too funny. It's as if Newton's simple experiments evaded your "profound" logic and the two of you continue to believe that bigger objects fall faster than smaller objects............and that all those floors beneath where the "collapse" began didn't offer any RESISTANCE.

Oh no, you Einstein's think that created acceleration..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHA The ONLY way you would actually have acceleration is if the RESISTANCE of the steal core were somehow severed, weakened, blown apart, cut, sliced on each and every floor. Without the complete removal of all resistance, the fall of the building is SLOWER than an object with NO resistance. This is why many physics professors call BS on the goobermint story.

OMG.......too funny!!

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-19   17:38:30 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#302. To: abraxas (#290)

It's as if Newton's simple experiments evaded your "profound" logic and the two of you continue to believe that bigger objects fall faster than smaller objects............and that all those floors beneath where the "collapse" began didn't offer any RESISTANCE

According to the science of KooKology, it's those twisting horizontal forces that caused the top to reach the ground at the same time as those lower levels, sort of like a wormhole or something.

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-07-19   17:55:37 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 302.

#305. To: FormerLurker (#302)

Oh yes, I forgot to calculate that worm hole into the colllapse. lol

abraxas  posted on  2010-07-19 17:58:36 ET  [Locked]   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 302.

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